I don't know why it would be such a huge swing, but look at Magus' 2k3 four pack and Frog's 2k4 four pack. All eight characters have shown that they are overrated (save perhaps Ganondorf, but he has a reason to go up), and by large amounts. Perhaps it's a combination of the sprite pictures helping Frog and Magus and the NES sprites hurting Link and Snake, but it's clear that something went wrong in those two matches and I think blaming it on the sprites makes more sense than any other explanation.
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"It shall be engraved upon your soul! Divine Assault: Nibelung Valesti!" ~ Lenneth Valkyrie

Anyone think that Terra might have been helped a little by having her last name in the poll? I'd wonder about Cecil since most people don't seem to realize he has a last name...
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Cecil has a last name?
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Knuckles the Echidna's road to the Sc2k5 Title!
Round 2: (2)Squall Leonhart

Cecil Harvey
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

I remember a time when those who mentioned pics making a difference in the polls were called idiots.

"Oh no! Snake is doing poorly because of his crappy sprite! He's dropped! Snake is no longer elite!"

Now all of a sudden Magus art and Magus sprite can make up a 10% voting difference? Riiiight. And explain to me again why it couldn't just be a combination of 1) polls aren't transitive, and 2) a Knuckles increase?
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Knights of the Old Republic> Your favorite Square RPG

Well, Knuckles would have to have an increase the likes we've never seen before to beat 2003 Magus, which would put him relatively equal to Sonic and ABOVE Snake.

Maybe FFVII and CT just overperform on Zelda for no reason at all...
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

It explains Magus losing to Knuckles. It explains where Ganondorf's TP boost was. It explains Mega Man/Tidus. It explains Sam Fisher. And that's just about all of Magus' matches.

We won't know for sure until Kirby beats Tidus, but I think it's highly plausible.

Honestly, if I care enough about any char to bother voting for him/her, I would be able to recognize a non-sprite version of him/her.

The only time a non-sprite picture can hurt is if the char came from a very obscure/cult game, since non-hardcore fans will then have recognition problems, but we're talking about CT here.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I'd have called them that, but I'd probably get moderated. I've got like 6 at current.
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

I've always thought pics would make some difference, but I was instantly sold when creativename made his argument in relation to advertising, because everything he said was completely right. Things like aesthetics do make a huge difference when it comes to selling something to someone, which is really what these polls do. They ask you to choose a character based on only a pic and a name.
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I need to put something here.

And explain to me again why it couldn't just be a combination of 1) polls aren't transitive, and 2) a Knuckles increase?

So far, those 2 factors combined has only swayed close matches.

Magus was expected to nearly double Knux.

And after Sonic's performance yesterday, a Knux increase is extremely unlikely.

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Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Sonic didn't make an outstanding victory yesterday, "just" a good one, but nothing more than expected.

That is, Sonic brand isn't gaining popularity... Knuckles won because Magus was overrated, I see no other valid theories here...
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Currently playing: Killer7 [GC] + Yoshi Touch & Go [DS]

I think pics make a difference, but 10% on base Link? Hell I almost got thrown out of here by saying that Dante's 2k4 Viewtiful Joe picture (which is more deviant from normal Dante than art Magus vs sprite Magus if you ask me) made him lose 2%. Anything more than 10% of the character's base strength just sounds absurd to me.

I just think that it comes down to getting a "relatively high %" on Link having too much of an effect on the stats. I know it's not easy to do, considering Crono only got 38% himself, but it just seems much easier to get a flukish "decent performance" against Link than a flukish "very respectable performance" against a slightly less strong character. (ie Mario, Sonic, etc.)
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Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

This is making my Tidus taking the Dream Division pick look really, really bad.
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I've been Pwned by KoaC. He really is the king of all cosmos.

Magus was overrated. If you still don't agree, wait until Squall kills Knuckles.
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All user contests are wrong. All except mine, that is.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=22809755

This is making my Tidus taking the Dream Division pick look really, really bad.

Hell, now I've finally seen the light and realized that Kirby could very well beat Tidus, when before I thought it was as laughable as Terra over Dante.

And yeah, I have him beating Bowser too. Big deal, I had Magus winning his division, so my bracket's ****ed anyway.
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All user contests are wrong. All except mine, that is.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=22809755

And after Sonic's performance yesterday, a Knux increase is extremely unlikely.

Why?

I keep hearing you all talk about the match yesterday like Sonic was somehow supposed to do better against an opponent we knew jack **** about besides getting in without any board support, and obviously getting in on the strength of Tekken 5?
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Knights of the Old Republic> Your favorite Square RPG

This is making my Tidus taking the Dream Division pick look really, really bad.

yeh Kirby owns all

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Vincent's Path to Victory: Round 1 - (4) Sarah Kerrigan OWNED 79200 - 21058 Round 2 - (1) Dante

Hell I almost got thrown out of here by saying that Dante's 2k4 Viewtiful Joe picture (which is more deviant from normal Dante than art Magus vs sprite Magus if you ask me) made him lose 2%

That's just the stats topic's Vincent > Dante bias (even though you already know that). Most of us will believe Solid ****'s Metal Gear picture cost him at least that much in 2k4, when they're pretty much the exact same situation of a well-liked character getting a pic from a game that most of the fans of that character haven't played. And that Dante pic was absolutely abysmal. No one could possibly even remotely like it.
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I need to put something here.

I keep hearing you all talk about the match yesterday like Sonic was somehow supposed to do better against an opponent we knew jack **** about besides getting in without any board support, and obviously getting in on the strength of Tekken 5?

That's a good point actually. Jin was the only 8 seed other than Yuri and Conker to get in with absolutely no board support.
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"All pretty girls are a trap, a pretty trap, and men expect them to be."
MasterMage119

Regardless, his performance on Jin wasn't anything special, just, meh.

Yesterday spoke more for Jin's strength than Sonic's weakness. I mean he is kinda the face of Tekken and all... Tekken being probably the fourth most popular fighter here. (behind Street Fighter, Soul Calibur, and Mortal Kombat)
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Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

Well, the stronger Sonic gets, the higher in the stats Jin gets. I can accept being stronger than Kazuya, but I don't buy him being above the fodder line. Tekken just isn't that popular here.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Didn't Sonic fail to impress with the day vote he is usually the best character in the contest at? One must look at more then just the final percentage to decide whether or not Sonic impressed, and he's gonna need that day vote of his considering the tough road he has ahead.
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I need to put something here.

That's still flawed logic. You say his performance was only "meh", even though you have no clue on the strength of Jin.
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Knights of the Old Republic> Your favorite Square RPG

I'd still take Jin over Conker. I said it yesterday when Jin was getting beaten 80-20 at the start, and I feel much better about it now.
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Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

We also had another Tekken rep in the contest, Kazuya, who only got 28% against Scropion.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

"Didn't Sonic fail to impress with the day vote he is usually the best character in the contest at?"

Actually it has been proven that the only Sonic character that actually owns the day vote is Knux. The rest, not so much. Oh, and VJ fans would have liked that Dante pic.
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Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

Why the hell would there be SFF in Scrop/Kazuya?

That's like saying there was SFF in Iori/Duke Nukem.

Let's switch gears for a bit.

Assume that 2002 is done again. Same bracket, same characters, same seeds and positions. However, all factors and rises/drops since then are in effect. Assume it's taking place this year.

Would you expect any different outcomes besides Mario/Cloud? Maybe some bigger blowouts? Would everything just pretty much be the same, since many characters were fodder then and would be bigger fodder now?
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All user contests are wrong. All except mine, that is.
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=22809755

Assume that 2002 is done again. Same bracket, same characters, same seeds and positions. However, all factors and rises/drops since then are in effect. Assume it's taking place this year.

Gordon would easily defeat Tina Armstrong, but that's the only one I can think off from the top of my head. Gimme a minute to look over the bracket...
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

Actually it has been proven that the only Sonic character that actually owns the day vote is Knux. The rest, not so much.

A side character in a series doing a good deal better with a certain kind of vote then the main character from the same series? That defies all common sense.

Oh, and VJ fans would have liked that Dante pic.

Maybe they would recognize it, but that doesn't mean they would like it. And I could be wrong about this, but doesn't Dante have nothing more then an optional minor cameo in VJ? And besides, VJ fans thoroughly disappointed us that contest anyway. There really aren't a whole lot of them out there on GameFAQs.
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I need to put something here.

A side character in a series doing a good deal better with a certain kind of vote then the main character from the same series? That defies all common sense

It would just imply that Sonic's support is more evenly spread out than Knux's.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

but doesn't Dante have nothing more then an optional minor cameo in VJ?

Optional yes, but he's fully playable with his own story mode.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 2: (3) Mag...Er...(6) Knuckles the Echidna

Changing a bit the subject of the discussion...

What do you expect for Kirby vs Tidus?

I think Kirby made a great job in his first match, while Tidus didn't do as well as expected. Although Tidus still beats Kirby in votes...

Tidus is a character from an old (well... almost) game and this fact (imho) caused Magus to lose his first match...

I see Kirby's chances raising
---
Currently playing: Killer7 [GC] + Yoshi Touch & Go [DS]

Assume that 2002 is done again. Same bracket, same characters, same seeds and positions. However, all factors and rises/drops since then are in effect. Assume it's taking place this year.

Would you expect any different outcomes besides Mario/Cloud? Maybe some bigger blowouts? Would everything just pretty much be the same, since many characters were fodder then and would be bigger fodder now?

The biggest change would be the contest only being 14 matches long. But ignoring that, Kirby beats Jill now, Mario does better on Servbot and possible Morrigan, maybe DK does a bit better on Aya. Sephiroth might lose to Samus, Sonic gets killed by Samus. Not much else would change in terms of winners.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Assume that 2002 is done again. Same bracket, same characters, same seeds and positions. However, all factors and rises/drops since then are in effect. Assume it's taking place this year.

Would you expect any different outcomes besides Mario/Cloud? Maybe some bigger blowouts? Would everything just pretty much be the same, since many characters were fodder then and would be bigger fodder now?

Here's how I would predict 2k2 bracket is it was happening this year (I'll do a * for every different pick).

Round 1

North Division

Mario
Morrigan
Aya
Donkey Kong
Alucard
Duke
Pikachu
Cloud

East Division

Lara
Ryo
Crono
Dante
Aeris
Gordon*
Knuckles
Snake

South Division

Pac-Man
Kyo
Scorpion
Max
Bomberman
Kirby*
Strider
Link

West Division

Sonic
Tidus
Samus
Ryu
Mega Man
Serious Sam
Sephiroth
Crash

Round 2

North Division

Mario
Donkey Kong
Alucard
Cloud

East Division

Lara
Crono
Aeris
Snake

South Division

Pac-Man
Scorpion
Kirby*
Link

West Division

Sonic
Samus
Mega Man
Sephiroth

Round 3

North Division

Mario
Cloud

East Division

Crono
Snake

South Division

Scorpion
Link

West Division

Samus
Sephiroth

Round 4

Cloud*
Crono
Link
Samus* (It's my upset pick this year)

Round 5

Cloud*
Link

Round 6

Link

So I have 6 different picks then what happened in 2k2.
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I've been Pwned by KoaC. He really is the king of all cosmos.

If we redo the 2002 bracket, here are the matches I think will have different outcomes:

Gordon Freeman/Tina Armstrong
Kirby/Jill Valentine
Kirby/Bomberman
Mario/Cloud
Cloud/Crono

Only five matches, four of them due to Cloud and Kirby.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

It would just imply that Sonic's support is more evenly spread out than Knux's.

But that makes no sense, because they're pretty much from the same games and the same series. There isn't any reason for Knux's strength to be more concentrated during the day when Sonic's isn't. And besides, it's ****ing Jin. He isn't exactly one to make a case for hurting Sonic's day vote either.

Optional yes, but he's fully playable with his own story mode.

That I didn't know. But then again I have no reason to have any faith in VJ, seeing as he straight up died in the second biggest upset in 2k4.
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I need to put something here.

A side character in a series doing a good deal better with a certain kind of vote then the main character from the same series? That defies all common sense.

Time of day vote is relative. Knuckles having a better day vote than Sonic means he has a worse night vote.

What do you expect for Kirby vs Tidus?

I'm expecting a Kirby victory in a closeish match. Kirby is a bit stronger than Knuckles and Tidus ranges from a bit weaker to a bit stronger than Magus.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I'll go over all of 2k2...

Mario over Servbot, by much more than in 2k2.
Morrigan over Servbot
Aya over Terry by less than 2k2
DK over Bub

Mario beats Morrigan by more, DK beats Aya by more, Mario crushes DK.

Alucard over Tails
Duke Nukem over Iori
Pikachu over Parappa
Cloud over Fox

Alucard beats the Duke, Cloud beats Pikachu then beats Alucard

Lara over Chop Chop by less
Ryo over Guybrush by a lot less
Crono over Simon
Dante over Q*Bert

Lara scraps by Ryo while Crono Crushes all

Aeris over Kasumi
Godon over Tina
Knux over Akira
Snake over Squall (maybe)

Aeris over Gordon, Snake (Squall) over Knux, Threeway race for the slot (Bias choses Aeris)

Pac-Man over Goemon by less
Kyo over Abe
Scorp over Kazuya by less
Max over Dirk

Pac barely scrapes by Kyo, Scorp barely beats Max then beats Pac by more

Bomberman over Kane
Kirby over Jill
Strider over Raziel
Link over Little Mac

Kirby over Bomber Man, Link murders all

Sonic over Harry
Tidus over Claire by more
Samus over Ken by more
Ryu over CATS

Sonic beats Tidus just as badly as last time, Samus beats Ryu by mor then handily disposes of Sonic

Mega Man obliterates Ms Pac-Man
Serious Sam barely scrapes by Mr. Driller because no one knows who either of them are any more.
Sephiroth obliterates Gabe
Crash over Ulala

Sephiroth man, Sephiroth man
Sephiroth man hates Mega man
They have a fight, Sephiroth wins
Sephiroth man

Elite 8:

Cloud Crushes Mario
Crono Crushes Snake
Link laughs his ass off about still matching someone as weak as Scorpion (seriously, worst half-bracket ever)
Sephiroth beats Samus by a little less than last time

Cloud smacks Crono silly, Link slaps Seph silly, Link and Cloud have another battle of the ages.
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

Plus Dante doesn't even get the full benefit of the VJ fanbase, considering he isn't in the Gamecube Version.

Interesting... I'll throw out a few possibilities of new results in 2k2.

Terry vs Aya would be closer. DK would probably curb stomp the winner.
Iori vs Duke Nukem would be closer.
GFNW never started.
Squall vs Solid Snake would be MUCH closer.
Kyo Kusanagi would beat Abe more handily and would also look much better vs Pac Man.
Kazuya does better vs Scorpion.
Kirby beats Jill Valentine.
Tidus beats Claire by a larger margin.
Dante vs Crono would be MUCH closer (we'll see it this year, yo)
Kirby also beats Bomberman.
Cloud beats Mario, and Sonic and Mega Man don't look nearly as good against their opponents.

Capcom vs SNK 2 being more established is why I have all of the SNK characters doing better, by the way. Along with Aya Brea probably going down a bit in popularity.
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Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

"What do you expect for Kirby vs Tidus?"

Kirby, who is in my bracket.
---
Now Link, fill up your hearts
So you can shoot your sword with power

I hate Kirby vs Tidus. Not as much as Leon obviously but I still hate Kirby vs Tidus. I'm gonna say I still think Tidus can do it but I'm anything but confident.
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I need to put something here.

In any case, Viewtiful Joe hasn't that enormous fanbase that could make the difference...
---
Currently playing: Killer7 [GC] + Yoshi Touch & Go [DS]

I'm a bit confused here... are people claiming that Dante's picture may have helped him against Sonic?
---
Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

Sephiroth man, Sephiroth man
Sephiroth man hates Mega man
They have a fight, Sephiroth wins
Sephiroth man

<3 They Might Be Giants

<3 Chichiri

---
Official Co-Host for PUB TRIVIA XV
Yoblazer is officially THE MAN for beating us all in SpC2K5!!

I'm a bit confused here... are people claiming that Dante's picture may have helped him against Sonic?

Haha, no, no I'm not saying that. We're just talking about how much it could have hurt him.
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I need to put something here.

I also hate Kirby vs Tidus. #1 favorite character vs #3 favorite character (WHOAMG Lopen, your tastes suck!). #3 in the bracket. Most signs point to #1 winning now. If it's really close between two characters I really like, I'll usually go with my bracket, but I just can't vote against Kirby.

Heh heh. But yeah that match is mean.
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Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

WHOAMG Lopen, your tastes suck!
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Knuckles the Echidna's road to the Sc2k5 Title!
Round 2: (2)Squall Leonhart