I don't think Dante increased that much. Even some of the lower elites would have problems cleanly beating Squall. If Dante did can beat Squall, it'll be a close match.

I'm sure Squall would win in a versus match. But against a common opponent, Dante could score better.
---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

Samus should win from Mario. She was predicted to last year, and since then she's got Metroid Prime 2 and the demo bundled with the DS.

I don't agree or anything, but I just wanted to say that I think you should post in the stats topic more. I really like reading a lot of the things you say. I think you'd be another good person to read stuff from in here, and you seem to have a good idea of the stats already. . . .


Yeah, that's it. Ignore me, if you must. =p

---
I'm just curious... why am I so good?
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/480/kensa34mr.gif

They are ludicrous to you Lenohart, ludicrous to you.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

They are ludicrous to you Lenohart, ludicrous to you.

So...40% on Zelda > 41% on Samus?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

I just realized Vincent could win both of his matches in DV not because of his own merit but SFF.

He's basically the same as Dante except for the fact that he's from FF VII.

He's an FF VII character and therefore the possibility exists for him to SFF any Square character.

Just to note: I also believe Squall would backhand Vivi, but I cant take anything out of the realm of possibility.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

I dont believe there is going to be any Dante/Vincent SFF.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

I think that it's very unlikely but I still think it may happen.

Thing is, unless its major and it wouldnt be, we would never be able to tell.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

All signs point to it partly being so, and partly Dante increasing.

Well, some of us assume Dante has increased, but there really isn't any hard evidence that points to him increasing.

---
I'm just curious... why am I so good?
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/480/kensa34mr.gif

I don't agree or anything, but I just wanted to say that I think you should post in the stats topic more. I really like reading a lot of the things you say. I think you'd be another good person to read stuff from in here, and you seem to have a good idea of the stats already. . . .


Yeah, that's it. Ignore me, if you must. =p

Thanks. :-p

It's actually the first time I've ever posted in these stat topics but it really is something for me I mean I love stats and such. I'll certainly be posting here more in the future.

---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

So...40% on Zelda > 41% on Samus?

Well I don't see anyone have Samus winning of the perfects, but two has Zelda winning it all >_>
---
This post is a joke.

More importantly, with that many posts, do we finally have an explanation for Knuckles > Magus?

I suppose the best one we have is Magus randomly overperformed on Link in 2k3. This explains the Tidus and Sam Fisher drop going from 2k3 to 2k4. Magus was (wrongfully) adjusted to his 2k3 value in 2k4 bring Luca Blight up with him. If you assume that his 2k4 value is actually about the same as Knuckles, Luca falls down at matches up with his Spring 2k5 value.

The two problems are Ganondorf and Shadow the Hedgehog. Ganondorf acted like his 2k3 value was roughly correct in 2k4 and beyond. The explaination for this is Ganondorf boosted along with Link and apparently Zelda from 2k3 to 2k4. Shadow matched Tidus perfect in 2k4 as if thier 2k3 rankings were accurate. The only real explanination for this is Shadow randomly overperformed on Mario.

It's not too great an explaination but there aren't a whole lot of better ones.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

17 Dante 27.33%
18 Vivi 27.05%
19 Squall Leonhart 24.58%

Not only are you trying to tell me Squall would lose to Vivi, but you're also telling me that Squall somehow decreased for no apparent reason, ignoring how he faced Cloud.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't believe that for a second.

---
I'm just curious... why am I so good?
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/480/kensa34mr.gif

Well, some of us assume Dante has increased, but there really isn't any hard evidence that points to him increasing.

Indeed. But it certainly seems more reasonable than Ultros >= Terra, certainly with DMC3 ever so recently released.


I dont believe there is going to be any Dante/Vincent SFF.

I'm pretty sure there would be. Playstation1/2 fans likely overlap for a big part. I'd vote Vincent in that match, but Dante over most other characters.
---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

From: consolefreak | Posted: 8/11/2005 10:10:21 PM | #333
Samus should win from Mario. She was predicted to last year, and since then she's got Metroid Prime 2 and the demo bundled with the DS.

Please. Let's think about the Nintendo hierarchy a bit. How do the series go? Zelda > Mario > Metroid. And do you really think Prime 2 will have made any difference? At all? It sold poorly, and it's not exactly going to attract new customers like the original Prime did. I'm one of the biggest Metroid marks you can find, and Echoes is nothing sort of sucking right now. I can barely put the thing in the Cube it's that bad.

And the DS bundle? Please.

Someone convince me to beat the Alpha Blogg, now.
---
Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

Squall did decrease. The 2 opponents he faced, Kirby and Bomberman, were shown higher than their 2003 stats due to Squall decraesing but we still using his 2k3 value.

Seriously, Bomberman increased 3%. Not buying it.

---
SC2k5: 21/23
Today: Squall vs. Geno

I personally believe Dante is someone who could benefit from higher vote totals, so he could be around his 2003 level, maybe a little higher.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

Then are saying if Cloud and Snake faced off, Snake would be SFFd? I dont believe just because two character exist on the same brand of consoles, they would neccesarily SFF each other.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

Squall did decrease. The 2 opponents he faced, Kirby and Bomberman, were shown higher than their 2003 stats due to Squall decraesing but we still using his 2k3 value.

Seriously, Bomberman increased 3%. Not buying it.

He's actually rather close to his 2002 value in 2004. It's possible that 2003 was just an anomaly, like Sonic's 2003.

Either way, it is very obvious that Bomberman increased somewhat because he's closer to Kirby in 2004 than he was in 2003.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

From: NewLib | Posted: 8/11/2005 10:35:48 PM | #370
Then are saying if Cloud and Snake faced off, Snake would be SFFd? I dont believe just because two character exist on the same brand of consoles, they would neccesarily SFF each other.

That's exactly why people were excusing Mega Man's awful performance against Link.
---
Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

Yeah and that SFF didnt exist.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

Seriously, Bomberman increased 3%. Not buying it.

All of those little bastards were in that pack with Sephiroth last year (2003). If you raise Alucard by that "3%" then all of those matches make sense. It doesn't predict just the matches concerning Ganon either, but Squall's as well.

But to ignore SFF in something like Cloud/Squall is absolute insanity. There's NO reason to assume there wasn't SFF, which is what you would have to do in order to have Squall that low in the stats. You can believe that all you want, but there's no reason to.

---
I'm just curious... why am I so good?
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/480/kensa34mr.gif

Seriously, Bomberman increased 3%. Not buying it.

Bomberman 2k2 = 2k4
---
I've been Pwned by KoaC. He really is the king of all cosmos.

Then are saying if Cloud and Snake faced off, Snake would be SFFd? I dont believe just because two character exist on the same brand of consoles, they would neccesarily SFF each other.

I have to agree. I don't believe that two characters sharing the same console are going to "SFF" each other, but you know. . . Shadowdude did bring up Final Fantasy VII's SFFing a lot of the games in the spring and it did kind of make sense. Obviously, there hasn't been anything to suggest we should adjust based on that. But it might not actually be too crazy of an idea.

Even by the unadjustment, Sephiroth did embarass Liquid Snake.

---
I'm just curious... why am I so good?
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/480/kensa34mr.gif

The only obvious examples I have seen of Final Fantasy SFFd something outside of the series is Xenogears, which is a Square game, and Alucard, which was released within a week of FFVII.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

From: NewLib | Posted: 8/11/2005 10:41:48 PM | #377
The only obvious examples I have seen of Final Fantasy SFFd something outside of the series is Xenogears, which is a Square game, and Alucard, which was released within a week of FFVII.

Before I counter with a "isn't Xenogears just a rather niche title anyway" argument, how many copies did it sell in the first place? TBH, unless it sold an appreciable amount, the result doesn't surprise me and doesn't look like SFF at all.
---
Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

The only obvious examples I have seen of Final Fantasy SFFd something outside of the series is Xenogears, which is a Square game, and Alucard, which was released within a week of FFVII.

Crash Bandicoot somehow avoided the huge drop that everyone from the 2002 West Division experienced. Guess who he faced? Sephiroth.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

Please. Let's think about the Nintendo hierarchy a bit. How do the series go? Zelda > Mario > Metroid.

Yes, your point? The rule rarely applies, but when the characters have so many games it really does: games =/= characters.


And do you really think Prime 2 will have made any difference? At all? It sold poorly, and it's not exactly going to attract new customers like the original Prime did.

A sequel always makes a difference. Hell, Final Fantasy X-2 is looking like it made a difference. The difference in quality between Final Fantasy X and X-2 far outweighs any difference between any Metroid games.


I'm one of the biggest Metroid marks you can find, and Echoes is nothing sort of sucking right now.

Your personal opinion doesn't dictate contest results. The game got fine reviews, and I haven't heard many people complain about it.



And the DS bundle? Please.

You can't deny that it will give her a boost. Every NA DS owner has a Metroid Prime game now. That's more units sold than Metroid Prime 1.

Anyway, I'll be going away for a while. I'll be back tomorrow to respond to your response, if the topic didn't get to 500 by then.

---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

Then are saying if Cloud and Snake faced off, Snake would be SFFd? I dont believe just because two character exist on the same brand of consoles, they would neccesarily SFF each other.

I'd be SFF voting Cloud, that's for sure.
---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

Ulti, did you do a post-contest analysis for SC2K2? If so, could I have a link? Thanks in advance.
---
Summer Contest Score: 21/23
Today's Pick: Squall

It's on the Archon II board.

AMI version.

From: consolefreak | Posted: 8/11/2005 10:44:29 PM | #380
Yes, your point?

My point is that Metroid is clearly the third series in the Nintendo hierarchy. See Link-Mario, LttP-SM, WW-MP.

A sequel always makes a difference

If they didn't like the first Prime, why would they like the second? Do you really think there are that many GC owners that have been living under a rock and missed Metroid Prime, and then suddenly though "ooh, I'll buy Echoes?"

Your personal opinion doesn't dictate contest results.

Of course. Otherwise I'd be perfect and the Vincent backers would be crying in a corner somewhere, things move on, your point? Is anyone that didn't like Prime calling out Echoes as the best game ever?

You can't deny that it will give her a boost.

Some boosts are bigger than others. If Echoes was suddenly released on PS2 and Xbox I might care. It's not bringing in new voters and neither will the DS thing.

Anyway, I'll be going away for a while. I'll be back tomorrow to respond to your response, if the topic didn't get to 500 by then.

I'm sure you've not gone away that quickly.
---
Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

Archon II? What's that?
---
Summer Contest Score: 21/23
Today's Pick: Squall

One last post..

There's SFF in a whole lot of matches. The question is how much and will it make a difference. In a close match like Squall - Dante, there probably isn't much SFF but there doesn't need to be to give Squall the edge (or make him win extra hard).

I know that I would SFF vote Squall in that match, so that's 1 vote that makes Dante look weaker than he is.
---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=574806&topic=17692953

Thats his 2002 Write Up.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

Thank you.
---
Summer Contest Score: 21/23
Today's Pick: Squall

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

If they didn't like the first Prime, why would they like the second?

*points to DMC2 Final Fantasy X-2*
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Ok, one last last post.

My point is that Metroid is clearly the third series in the Nintendo hierarchy. See Link-Mario, LttP-SM, WW-MP.

Yes, but like I said games =/= characters. Samus shouldn't be half as strong as she is, but she is.

If they didn't like the first Prime, why would they like the second? Do you really think there are that many GC owners that have been living under a rock and missed Metroid Prime, and then suddenly though "ooh, I'll buy Echoes?"

Younger gamers, for one. I honestly have 2 nephews that bought Metroid Prime 2 but weren't there for 1. They don't go to gameFAQs though, but I'm sure there are people that do. Anyway, even if the same people play it, it might make them like Samus a bit more so they will vote her over more characters. It's hard to accurately define these things, and when you think about it rationally it doesn't make any sense. But trust me, Metroid Prime 2 will give her a boost.

Of course. Otherwise I'd be perfect and the Vincent backers would be crying in a corner somewhere, things move on, your point? Is anyone that didn't like Prime calling out Echoes as the best game ever?

No, but there are people that have 2 and not 1. And the people I know that liked 1 also liked 2, so the ones that have 2 but not 1 will likely be Samus fans much like the ones that have just 1 or 1 and 2.

Some boosts are bigger than others. If Echoes was suddenly released on PS2 and Xbox I might care. It's not bringing in new voters and neither will the DS thing.

The DS and GC crowd differs enormously. Many, many Xbox/PS2 owners have a DS.

I'm sure you've not gone away that quickly.

Heh, you're right. I will be leaving now for real though.

---
even when a pawn becomes a queen, it's still just a playing piece -President Johnson, MGS2. SC2k5: 21/23. Today: Squall, tomorrow: Sonic

man, there's a lot of fickle people in this topic. weren't the majority of you guys saying a mere two days ago that Vincent was going to win the Division with ease and possibly give Crono a run for his money? now, you're all saying that Knuckles could take it, if he gets past Squall? pffffttt....... gimme a break. have you no short-term memory? did you already forget the lesson we learned two days ago.

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF FF7!!!!

maybe it's the caffeine talking, or the blind fanboyism, but Vincent is taking this Division. i've long predicted that Kerigan would be fodder, but uber-fodder among the likes of Olimar, JC, and Mr. Driller? come on, now. plus, Vincent got the second highest individual vote total so far, ahead of even Samus, Crono, and Solid Snake (don't forget that Snake and Samus DID face uber-fodder).

Vincent is taking the Devil Division, baby, and i am sticking to it!!

---
Official Co-Host for PUB TRIVIA XV
Yoblazer is officially THE MAN for beating us all in SpC2K5!!

I dont believe there is going to be any Dante/Vincent SFF.

y'know, i could see it happening a little bit; some sort of bad-assery SFF. especially if their match pic has both of them aiming their guns at each other. and on this site, FF7 is almost always going to be on the positive end of any sort of SFF.

---
Official Co-Host for PUB TRIVIA XV
Yoblazer is officially THE MAN for beating us all in SpC2K5!!

So, what do you guys think are the chances of KOS-MOS beating Luigi?

I mean, Luigi is only just ahead of KOS-MOS in the adjusted X-Stats, and, we know how reliable the adjusted stats are turning out to be. That, and, KOS-MOS has a new game in between the contests, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, please.

So, possibility?
---
Ahem! There's LETTUCE on my boots!
http://www.geocities.com/lettucekefka/

I wouldnt judge much on first round vote totals. If you did Sephiroth > Link in 2004.
---
Leon's Quest For Ultimate Glory:
1. Tripling Gordon Freeman.

i still think it's possible and ever since the bracket was released i thought it would be a close match. personally, i was surprised that so few people on the board went after that upset.

however, after seeing how much Nintendo has dominated this contest so far, it appears more likely that this match will wind up more like Vivi/Zelda where Luigi is the huge bracket favorite and he wins without the match being all that close - more like 55/45.

---
Official Co-Host for PUB TRIVIA XV
Yoblazer is officially THE MAN for beating us all in SpC2K5!!

So, what do you guys think are the chances of KOS-MOS beating Luigi?

Not very good and getting worse. Nintendo is looking great in this Contest with the increased votes. Also, Xenosaga 2 isn't looking like it will help KOS-MOS.

I'm predicting a Luigi win anywhere from 55-60%. And yes, I know that puts him a bit too close to Ryu.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Squall vs. Geno - Bracket: Squall - Vote: Geno (20/23)

we know how reliable the adjusted stats are turning out to be

People are only saying this because of what Magus did yesterday. Those good ol' fashioned adjusted stats could bring Magus that low, too.

*points to Sam Fisher and Luca Blight*

Magus just overperformed in 2003. Let's not start saying that SFF doesn't exist anymore or something.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

And yes, I know that puts him a bit too close to Ryu.

Yeah, that Squall guy, too.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

"People are only saying this because of what Magus did yesterday. "


There's also the Mega Man Adjustments, too.
---
Ahem! There's LETTUCE on my boots!
http://www.geocities.com/lettucekefka/