I think you guys are putting too much on Vincent for him to be able to be a favorite. Just because he doesn't double Kerrigan doesn't put him at a disadvantage.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

When I say "book it", all I mean is it's a strong opinion. I mean if people really meant "book it" as fact every time they said it... well we'd have plenty of liars/fools in here.
---
Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

I think you guys are putting too much on Vincent for him to be able to be a favorite. Just because he doesn't double Kerrigan doesn't put him at a disadvantage.

If he can't double an unrecognizable picture of a PC game villain... yeah, I'd say he's screwed in the next round.
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

I think you guys are putting too much on Vincent for him to be able to be a favorite. Just because he doesn't double Kerrigan doesn't put him at a disadvantage.

That's because I have Dante > Vincent.
---
I've been Pwned by KoaC. He really is the king of all cosmos.

All Time X-sts without averages.

(Note: I factored in SFF in 2002 and 2003, including DK and Mario's defeats, as well as Sora and Kefka in 2003. I put both adjusted and unadjusted 2004 20XXDF standings. I hope you like it.)

04 Link 53.38%
03-04 Cloud 51.61%
02-03 Link 50%
03 Sephiroth 49.71%
04 Sephiroth 45.47%
02 Sephiroth 43.35%
sp05 Sephiroth 43%
02 Mega Man 42.91%
04 Samus 42.36%
02 Samus 41.07%
02 Sonic 41.05%
04 Crono 39.87%
03-04ad Mega Man 38.6%
02-03 Mario 38.18%
02-03 Crono 38.14%
02 Cloud 38.1%
03 Samus 37.94%
04 Mario 37.28%
04 Sonic 35.99%
sp05 Ganondorf 35.97%
02-03 Snake 35.9%
03-04 Magus 34.93%
03 Sonic 34.92%
sp05 Bowser 34.79%
04unad Mega Man 34.74%
03-04 Ganondorf 34.72%
02 Ryu 34.62%
03 Shadow 34.28%
03 Tidus 34.25%
04ad Zero 33.96%
02 Tidus 33.8%
03 Zero 33.28%
04ad Snake 33.05%
03 Aeris 32.81%
04ad Frog 32.13%
04ad Master Chief 32.13%
04ad L. Snake 32.1%
04 Ryu 32%
03-04 Squall 31.72%
02 Aeris 31.2%
03-04 Bowser 30.97%
03 Ryu 30.69%
04unad Zero 30.56%
03 Zelda 30.29%
02 Claire 30.11%
04 Alucard 29.75%
04unad Snake 29.74%
04 Auron 29.37%
03-04 Sora 28.93%
04unad Frog 28.92%
04unad Master Chief 28.92%
04unad L. Snake 28.89%
03 Auron 28.73%
04 Kirby 28.54%
02 Ken 28.49%
03 Dante 28.23%
02 Knuckles 28.2%
03 Alucard 27.56%
02 Jill 27.37%
04 Dante 27.33%
04ad Tidus 27.19%
04 Vivi 27.05%
03-04 Yoshi 27.05%
04ad Shadow 26.75%
04ad Knuckles 26.74%
03 Knuckles 26.47%
03 Kirby 26.34%
03 Master Chief 26.15%
04ad Tommy 25.92%
03 Tommy 25.58%
02 Kirby 25.54%
02 Dante 25.49%
03 Jill 25.38%
02 Morrigan 25.34%
02-03 DK 25.34%
03 Luigi 25.24%
sp05 Diablo 25.04%
02 Squall 24.82%
02 Aya 24.8%
03 Scorpion 24.74%
04 Luigi 24.62%
03 Felix 24.6%
04unad Tidus 24.47%
04 KOS-MOS 24.24%
02 Strider 24.23%
04unad Shadow 24.07%
04unad Knuckles 24.07%
03 Wario 24.07%
02 Scorpion 24.02%
sp05 R. Ocelot 23.66%
03 Yuna 23.66%
sp05 M. Bison 23.6%
03 Sam F. 23.57%
04 DK 23.55%
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

Damn Leonhart, do I really have to put "IMO" after every thing I say around here? Of course it's all speculation, jeez. I have a good feeling it's the correct speculation (various reasons), but of course that's all I'm doing, is speculating.

It's not what you say, it's how you say it. Your tone seemed to indicate that it was more fact than theory, not that there's anything wrong with that. That's when (in the rare cases that I actually have something worthwhile to say in these) I make a point of using a less forceful tone, mostly through saying "I" often.
---
Season 20 starts with a bang, as Claude Kenni and Hiro pit their swords against each other in Heavy! Who will win? Find out at rpgdl.com!

04unad Tommy 23.33%
04 Tails 23.29%
02 Kasumi 23.25%
02 Alucard 23.13%
02 Bomberman 23.01%
sp05 Kefka 22.99%
02 Raziel 22.99%
03 KOS-MOS 22.96%
03 Lara 22.85%
04ad Kefka 22.75%
04 Bomberman 22.36%
03 Ramza 22.31%
02 Lara 22.21%
04 Ryu H. 22.14%
04 Jill 22.13%
03 Ken 21.71%
sp05 Dr. Wily 21.53%
sp05 Nemesis 21.45%
sp05 Ridley 21.21%
02 Tails 21.13%
04 V. Joe 21.05%
sp05 L. Snake 20.71%
04 Scorpion 20.65%
03-04 Ness 20.53%
03-04unad Kefka 20.48%
04 Duke 20.47%
03 Tails 20.41%
02 Pac-Man 20.3%
04 Kain 20.17%
03 Pac-Man 20.09%
04 HK-47 19.93%
02 Servbot 19.77%
04ad Max 19.72%
03 Bomberman 19.59%
02-03 Fox 19.35%
02 Bub 19.28%
04 Vyse 19.21%
04ad Protoman 19.21%
03 Vyse 19.05%
04ad Crash 18.81%
03 Isaac 18.72%
03 Duke 18.46%
04 Jak 18.45%
sp05 Ansem 18.39%
sp05 Lavos 18.38%
sp05 Vergil 18.23%
03 Conker 18.14%
02 Ryo 18.04%
03 Raziel 17.9%
02 Duke 17.81%
03 Kite 17.79%
04unad Max 17.75%
02 Simon 17.71%
04 Conker 17.55%
02 Terry 17.48%
03 Crash 17.46%
04unad Protoman 17.29%
03 Max 17.23%
04unad Crash 16.93%
sp05 CATS 16.9%
sp05 Dr. Robotnik 16.8%
02 Max 16.64%
sp05 Mithos 16.56%
sp05 Sin 16.36%
sp05 M. Brain 16.25%
04 Sam F. 16.12%
02 Spyro 16.07%
02 Crash 16.03%
04 Pac-Man 15.89%
03 Gordon 15.86%
02 Little Mac 15.69%
02-03 Pikachu 15.61%
sp05 Ultros 15.48%
04 Laharl 15.28%
02 Q*Bert 15.28%
sp05 Sigma 15.26%
02 Kyo 15.09%
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

Am I the only one that likes Gordon's pic? He's got that nice, prominent symbol on his chest...honestly, I think it's his best one to date.
---
ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO...Pac-Man?

What kind of votes would having the Brood War pic even get Kerrigan? The "Hey, I saw her on the cover of that Starcraft game!" vote?

...Is that really THAT much of a factor? I mean, it's not like it's a bad pic, Kerrigan looks alright. The only argument is that people won't recognize her... which was really a big problem for her to begin with, as only the players of Starcraft's single player mode/people who hang around this board too much would have heard of her
---
I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

04 Lara 14.91%
sp05 Albedo 14.89%
02 Pitfall Harry 14.41%
02 Tina 14.4%
04 Gordon 14.37%
02 PaRappa 14.23%
sp05 Andross 14.19%
sp05 Ramirez 14.02%
02 Kazuya 13.93%
04 Terry 13.79%
sp05 Wesker 13.63%
sp05 M. Hand 13.61%
03 CATS 13.52%
02 Chop Chop 13.49%
02 CATS 13.3%
02 Iori 13.28%
04 Luca 13.25%
04ad E. Jim 13.14%
04 CATS 13.05%
sp05 Ghaleon 12.96%
03 Ratchet 12.85%
04 Ryo 12.77%
02 Abe 12.74%
03 Ryo 12.62%
sp05 Kuja 12.59%
04 Sly 12.39%
03 Raiden 12.29%
04 JC Denton 12.28%
04unad E. Jim 11.83%
02 Ulala 11.79%
02 Gordon 11.55%
02 Goemon 11.29%
sp05 P. Head 11.21%
sp05 Luca 10.97%
02 Akira 10.96%
03 Tom Nook 10.82%
sp05 Giygas 10.8%
04 Ratchet 10.78%
02 Gabe Logan 10.66%
04 Guybrush 10.54%
02 Guybrush 10.31%
02 Kane 10.08%
03 Captain Olimar 8.84%
03 AiAi 8.65%
03 Mr. Resetti 8.52%
sp05 Tenpenny 8.51%
02 Dirk the Daring 7.93%
02 Serious Sam 7.01%
02 Ms. Pac-Man 6.61%
02 Mr. Driller 5.78%
04ad Tanner 3.77%
04unad Tanner 3.39%
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

If he can't double an unrecognizable picture of a PC game villain... yeah, I'd say he's screwed in the next round.

The official queen ***** of the universe thinks Kerrigan will lose?

Hooray!
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, history is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

A bit off topic, but did Kerrigan start off as a human? With a name like "Sarah Kerrigan," it would lead me to believe so, but I've never seen any human pictures of her.
---
Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

And by the way, while I'm not preaching it as fact, if Dante loses to Vincent and Vincent fails to double Kerrigan tomorrow, feel free to rub my face in it. Feel free. Because I'm definitely not seeing it happen otherwise.

But I think ol Vincent will double Kerrigan regardless.
---
Raiden fact of the contest: Alucard is a plagiarist, this year Raiden will prove it!

I'm still amazed that this topic puts so much importance on pics.

A lot of people were hoping for Kerrigan to get some votes from being recognized as the character on the Starcraft:Brood Wars startup screen or an old 1-player mode playthrough. You need a good picture for that. Being purple instead of green isn't helping with recognition either(see Terra's hair colour <_<).
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

From: Sir Bormun | Posted: 8/8/2005 7:05:32 PM | Message Detail | #062
I'm still amazed that this topic puts so much importance on pics.

and i'm still amazed that anyone in this topic could not put any importance on pics. when an average voter votes, he sees two things: the names and the pics.

Am I the only one that likes Gordon's pic? He's got that nice, prominent symbol on his chest...honestly, I think it's his best one to date.

Gordon looks like he has already accepted his defeat and that he is only remaning in the match as a mere formality.

---
Official Co-Host for PUB TRIVIA XV
Yoblazer is officially THE MAN for beating us all in SpC2K5!!

The only argument is that people won't recognize her...

Yes, that being the problem <_<

which was really a big problem for her to begin with, as only the players of Starcraft's single player mode/people who hang around this board too much would have heard of her

I disagree. I think, by this point, pretty much anybody who has played Starcraft would have heard of Kerrigan (yes, there are probably exceptions, but let's work with majorities) just as anyone who has played Final Fantasy VII would probably know of Vincent. The difference is that, while Vincent can be recognized as Vincent, Kerrigan doesn't even have the same skin color as usual.
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Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

The official queen ***** of the universe thinks Kerrigan will lose?

I never thought that Kerrigan had a serious hope in hell, but this pic is sure to hurt her.
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

Actually now that I really think about it, the Brood War pic wouldin't really mean much. Sure some people might vote for her because she was on Brood War's cover. But really that picture's still ugly as hell and Vincent would easily get the pic vote anyway.

A bit off topic, but did Kerrigan start off as a human? With a name like "Sarah Kerrigan," it would lead me to believe so, but I've never seen any human pictures of her.

***STARCRAFT SPOILERS***





Yes.

http://www.blizzard.com/broodwar/heroes/kerr.shtml






***END SPOILERS***
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

Hmm, shadow, Seph Sp2k5 is ranked waaay too high.

He should be barely above Samus, as in less then .25% above her.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

I got his value using LSE vs. Base Link.

http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/27
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

***FURTHER STARCRAFT SPOILERS***




A human pic of Kerrigan:

http://student.ttuhsc.edu/JHollingworth/kerrigan.htm




***END SPOILERS***
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!

Kerrigan looks pretty damn ugly even as a human.

Thanks, smitelf.
---
Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

I got his value using LSE vs. Base Link.

http://sc2k5.com/drupal/node/27

That makes sense, but I'd rather hold Ganon nearly constant to his 2k3 numbers and drop Seph all the way though.

Seph dropped massively between 2k3 and 2k4, it makes sense for him to drop massively yet again.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Being purple instead of green isn't helping with recognition either(see Terra's hair colour <_<).

You really think people who played FF6 wouldn't recognize that pic of Terra? Or the name "Terra" in the voting choices? Nah... the SNES FFs just are weak.

It seems like the only time pic issues are argued as able to hurt a character is when that character wasn't very recognizable to begin with. Perhaps an exception was Snake vs. Frog last year, we'll see about that soon. But... the strongest characters in these things are the ones that are recognizable by name alone. Vincent, being in FF7, seems to fit that bill. Kerrigan doesn't. That's why she's going to get crushed tomorrow, not because of some picture thing.

The difference is that, while Vincent can be recognized as Vincent, Kerrigan doesn't even have the same skin color as usual.

True. My simple argument is that Kerrigan would only have been recognizable to people who played Starcraft anyway, and they'll still know it's her by the name "Kerrigan". Anyone who didn't play Starcraft wouldn't have recognized any picture of Kerrigan... even the more famous ones.

Kinda like a FF6 character, really. It ain't for nothing that we still get "Who's Kefka?" topics on the boards... Starcraft and FF6 are famous games, but the only way you'll know the characters is if you play them.
---
I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

"Seph dropped massively between 2k3 and 2k4, it makes sense for him to drop massively yet again."

Eh, not exactly. I do agree that Seph dropped from 03 to 04, but I think that's because of lower vote totals and the KHF wearing off a bit. Seph is a tad weaker, but pretty close to his 2002 numbers.
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

Btw, it doesn't matter whether Kerrigan is ugly as hell or not.
What matters is whether or not she can be recognized as who she is in SC.

The pic she will get tomorrow has never been seen in SC nor it's expansion.
So those who like her but had forgotten her name will not even recognize that it's her.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Plus, I think it's pretty obvious that Ganon went up a lot from 03 to sp05. Mostly because fans of Zelda shifted their votes toward Ganon because of no Link or Zelda.
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

If they liked her enough to vote for her they'd remember her name.

If they liked her enough to vote for her they'd remember her name.

Smartest thing I've seen in this whole pic debate. I agree 100%.
---
I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

Eh, not exactly. I do agree that Seph dropped from 03 to 04, but I think that's because of lower vote totals and the KHF wearing off a bit. Seph is a tad weaker, but pretty close to his 2002 numbers.

Well, those factors you mentioned should've affected Cloud as well, but it doesn't seem like it.
And even if Cloud also got affected by those factors, it seems very minimal.

Anyway, I guess dropping him back to his 2k2 numbers is also a reasonable way to go about it.
Damn, I always hate trying to make sense of Seph's X-stats...

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

You really think people who played FF6 wouldn't recognize that pic of Terra? Or the name "Terra" in the voting choices? Nah... the SNES FFs just are weak.

I can't see why they would. She doesn't look a whole lot like she does in game. People aren't going to vote for a character they don't recognize just because of a name(unless you believe Kratos would get votes for Kratos voters even though they don't look remotely alike). A good picture wouldn't push her over Dante or anything like that, but she would do a lot better.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I agree. He is pretty inconsistent.
---
Summer Contest Score: 19/20
Today's Pick: Dante

If they liked her enough to vote for her they'd remember her name.

Smartest thing I've seen in this whole pic debate. I agree 100%.

Just to let you guys know, most of my casual friends recognize Cloud's pic as "that guy from FF VII".

They can't even remember his name.

Yet they'll still vote for him over anyone they never heard of, just because they think he looks cool.

---
Reserved for the winner of the SC2K5 Guru Challenge.

Smartest thing I've seen in this whole pic debate. I agree 100%.

Unrecognizable characters will do worse. You caren't trying to deny that, are you? While most people likely arent influenced, having the Brood War pic clearly would have been in Kerrigan's favor. Pic's don't make an immense difference, but a horrible pic versus an awesome pic could easily be worth a few percent. Lettuce Kefka, anyone? CATS with a recognizable pic?
---
Hail to the Queen of Blades.

If they liked her enough to vote for her they'd remember her name.

Not neccessarily. Even if they can't outright remember her name, they remember what she looks like. From there they might then be able to recall her name, where she's from, what she did and why she kicks so much ass.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Unrecognizable characters will do worse. You caren't trying to deny that, are you? While most people likely arent influenced, having the Brood War pic clearly would have been in Kerrigan's favor. Pic's don't make an immense difference, but a horrible pic versus an awesome pic could easily be worth a few percent. Lettuce Kefka, anyone? CATS with a recognizable pic?

Kefka and CATS are the only example of this we've come close to proving. And besides, we're talking about a few percent here. So... Kerrigan gets 32% instead of 35%. ...So? Still lost, and her level in the stats barely changes.
---
I can't think of anything to put here, but I can't just leave it blank, can I?

Kefka and CATS are the only example of this we've come close to proving.

Solid Snake would like to have a word with you. In case you haven't noticed, everything related to Frog's fopur-pack since that match has flopped horribly.
---
That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ZSB [aX]

Solid Snake's picture was fine. Chrono trigger characters simply overperform when they have thier sprites, much like Kefka did. If you deny this you are a fool.

---
I HAVE FURY!

Kefka and CATS are the only example of this we've come close to proving. And besides, we're talking about a few percent here. So... Kerrigan gets 32% instead of 35%. ...So? Still lost, and her level in the stats barely changes.

Using Terra as an example, a 4-5% boost would jump her up to around 20%BL and barely dodge the doubling from Dante. I still don't get the point and her position in the Extraploated standings doesn't change that much, but I'd be a lot more happy with it that what it is right now.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

So... Kerrigan gets 32% instead of 35%. ...So? Still lost, and her level in the stats barely changes.

Yes, it would likely be only a few percent. Which is why I said I hope the match isnt close, in which case it would actually matter. Also, Kerrigan's pic, from the Brood War screen, would likely have been a massive coup for her. Think the difference between Lettuce Kefka and Angel Kefka. If she ends up losing 32 percent instead of 35 or 36 percent, then it sucks, but its not a big deal. I still think there's an outside chance it could have been close, but after this....Meh.

Honestly, it isnt enough that she has to go up against Vincent, but she has to be unrecognizable as well? Us Kerrigan fans got screwed.
---
Hail to the Queen of Blades.

So which picture is commonly referred to as Solid ****? Is it Snake's 3rd round picture last year, the sprite round?
---
Currently sitting pretty at #3 on the leaderboard

Fun facts of the day from the Department of Misleading Statistics!

* Everyone on the following list of truly elite characters has:

A) appeared in all four summer contests
and
B) never been held to under 40% of the vote in any match:

Link
Cloud
Sephiroth
Solid Snake
Ryu
Kirby
Gordon Freeman

* Among series of games that have been represented in both character and game contests, only Half-Life (and its affiliated characters) has never failed to break 40% in a match.

* Although the Resident Evil series has been represented in ten matches to date, it has never managed to break the 40,000 vote barrier.

Looks like we should be expecting big things from that Gordon Freeman fellow!
---
ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO...Pac-Man?

BeTheMan... that's awesome.
---
Currently sitting pretty at #3 on the leaderboard

Heh, now I really hope Leon underperforms.
---
Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

I hope Leon triples Gordon. We all know that Leon is the strongest opponent Gordon's had to face thus far. This is the first time Gordon faces a character who is cooler than he is.
---
Summer 2005 Contest - 19/21 points
Current Match Prediction: Sarah Kerrigan vs. Vincent Valentine

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Only Snake and Gordon are in danger of falling off of that list.
---
It's just not the same without this name.
Faithful supporter of Squall Leonhart in SC2K5

Claire Redfield got 45% against Tidus. I see Leon Kennedy as being at least a bit stronger than Claire... I really think he's going to easily triple Gordon and give Mega Man a match.
---
Welcome to Moonside. Wecomel to Soonmide. Moonwel ot cosidme