if rayman or croc were to appear. how weak would they be? platformers are afterall breakfast for the midcarders.
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

I wonder how Cammy would do if she got a good pic that made use of TJF
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Currently Playing: Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (PS2), Final Fantasy VI (SNES)

From: voltch | Posted: 8/2/2005 3:21:55 PM | #401
if rayman or croc were to appear. how weak would they be?

Rayman would be sub-CATS fodder. Croc would be even worse.


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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

They'd be a bit weaker then crash bandacoot I think, because they were never the plasystation unofficial mascotts. They'd probably be high end fodder. Rayman might manage to be at the same level as jak and crash, or even slightly higher for being on so many different consoles, but croc is likely to be weaker.
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croc is now forgotten so i think he could be about serious sam's level. but rayman i expect him to be decent fodder.
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

After thinking on it further I don't see rayman being below the VFL by much if he's even there at all. With all the different consoles he's been on he should at least have a diverse enough fanbase to draw from to keep him above crash and jak. Even if no one console gives him that much prowess, he has enough from all of them conbined to make him decent. Sort of like a really weak megaman.
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Bowser 66.66% 18964
Chun Li 33.34% 9486
TOTAL VOTES 28450

Ptrobaby a bit below 66.6666~, but close enough to call it a doubling.
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so should we try and get him in next year's contest just to see his strength?
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Bowser 66.67% 19160
Chun Li 33.33% 9580
TOTAL VOTES 28740

Doubling.
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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

so should we try and get him in next year's contest just to see his strength?

I wouldn't mind giving tha a try. Even without board support look at all the different games he has. I'm sure if someone took the effort to go to every single rayaman board on gamefaqs and make a topic telling people to nominate rayman he'd get in relatively easily.
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Upon further inspection, he'd need some level of board support. Even his newer games have almost completely dead boards.
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This match bodes well for Rikku. Maybe all SF characters took a 20% drop. Hm? HMM?
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i still think that rayman could beat up most of the fooder easily. in fact i see him a tad stronger than lara croft.
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Rayman would be the weakest plateformer we've ever seen.

i still think that rayman could beat up most of the fooder easily.

Same here. All I'm saying it would take more then just making a topic on all of his boards to get him in. It would help, but not a lot. Then again I visit a lot of nearly dead boards that have a lot of people in it. When someone makes a topic in them they get about a dozen postss within a day, but the vets just don't talk much because they know everything about the game already.
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From: voltch | Posted: 8/2/2005 3:48:33 PM | #413
i still think that rayman could beat up most of the fooder easily. in fact i see him a tad stronger than lara croft.

I think Rayman would have trouble with Ratchet. Out of 2004's field, I'd only back Rayman against Tanner.
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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

Rayman would be the weakest plateformer we've ever seen.

The sheer amount of systems he's appeared on would keep him from being that bad. Enough people need to be buying his games for so many new ones to be made, so he has some fanbase, and a very diverse one at that.
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They'd be a bit weaker then crash bandacoot I think, because they were never the plasystation unofficial mascotts. They'd probably be high end fodder. Rayman might manage to be at the same level as jak

I think you're both under-estimating Jak and misunderstanding that Jak is stronger than Crash.
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and even if rayman is pure fodder it would be nice for him to make the field. if spyro and guybrush get in at one point Character battle history why not rayman.
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Yeah your right, he faced a highly underestimated ness. My mistake.

Still rayman could do decently. I can see him being around the same level as viewtiful joe potentially.
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Bowser is killing Chun Li now. I'd be really pissed off right now if it wasn't BOOWWWSAAAAH!
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Bowser is looking like he might have as big turn around as knux vs. kefka. He's already increased over 3%. 4% more and he's there.
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I know Chun-Li is new and all so it isn't all that fair to make assumptions yet, but the way Bowser's beating the hell out of Chun-Li right now makes him look good against Ryu...and it looks like Bowser's goin' to keep increasing for awhile, too. Now, Ryu may impress against Rikku and make everybody think it's even again, but right now I feel a lil' better about my Bowser > Ryu pick.
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still i can't believe he hasn't been in a contest yet.
people actually liked rayman and rayman 2. plus i have a friend whose father is one of the co-creators of ubi-soft so i would like rayman to be in instead of sam blooming fisher.
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

I never really doubted my Bowser pick. We've never seen a close Ryu match. I doubt he has the overwhelming support to win a close match. Of course, that's only an assumption. But Bowser at least being ABLE to get 40% on Sephiroth, whether or not you think the spring contest is valid, leads me to believe that he would get more than enough support in a close match.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Same here harrich. Chun-li can't be much weaker then Bison and Ken IMO, and bowser in the 2k5 spring contest xstats would be expected to do about this to Bison. Actually I think he'd be projected to get a bit under 70% on bison, wouldn't he? He looks like he might surpass that on chn-li.
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From: therealmnm | Posted: 8/2/2005 4:03:39 PM | #425
But Bowser at least being ABLE to get 40% on Sephiroth, whether or not you think the spring contest is valid

I've never understood the reason why some people just discount the spring results. I don't think your average voter would choose any differently whether the vote said "villain" or "best character", in fact they wouldn't even notice.
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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

So, apart from Ryu every single Street Fighter character is roughly in the same tier. Which is what I've thought for ages.

It's starting to look that way, the fact that Bison could end up ranking ahead of both Ken & Chun suggests this, which makes me wonder which of the SF2 character would be significantly be behind the pack? (T. Hawk & Dee Jay come to mind)

I've never understood the reason why some people just discount the spring results. I don't think your average voter would choose any differently whether the vote said "villain" or "best character", in fact they wouldn't even notice.

Tenpenny makes the best case for this. As a villain he was brilliant. You didn't just not care for his character at all like some other villains but samuel L. Jackson did such a good job with him that you wanetd him dead really badly. You just wanted to kill him every time you saw him. He was that great a villain, and yet he ranks last in the xstats because nobody likes him.
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Of the original 12, Ryu's clearly the best, then I'd say they're all much of a muchness. Ken and Bison are probably the pick of them, and I'd say Zangief or Balrog would probably be the worst. I'd put the four SSF2 characters a bit below that again barring Cammy. In any case, I wouldn't have the (12 minus Ryu) pack being too far apart to the extent that I'd pick one of them to beat a neutral character and another not to. I just don't see that big a difference at all.
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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

I've never understood the reason why some people just discount the spring results. I don't think your average voter would choose any differently whether the vote said "villain" or "best character", in fact they wouldn't even notice.

Because the results didn't go as people expected them to... People think there's no way that Bowser could get a legit 40% on Sephiroth when Mario couldn't... even though those matches were two years apart. I could list a hundred reasons why I think the spring contest was valid....
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Bowser better be at 70% or higher when I get back from work.
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VOTE: BOWSER in the Summer Contest

From: therealmnm | Posted: 8/2/2005 4:17:00 PM | #431
People think there's no way that Bowser could get a legit 40% on Sephiroth when Mario couldn't...

Mario>Cloud>Sephiroth>Mario>Crono>Mario, we can play comical things like that all day long. Sephy only getting 60-40 on the main Nintendo villains isn't ridiculous, it's in near enough the right ballpark. You can't use the stats to predict everything to a hundredth of a percent or we'd have had a perfect bracket by now. If the villain contest was the very first contest, would we chuck out all the summer contest stats because they didn't tally up? No, we wouldn't.

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Jon Thomson - MARIO, Samus, SOLID SNAKE, Bowser, CRONO, Squall, Sonic, MEGA MAN

Because the results didn't go as people expected them to.

Funnily enough, the same thing's been happening in this contest thus far. I've heard afew cries to piss on the x-stats so far already, heh.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Funnily enough, the same thing's been happening in this contest thus far. I've heard afew cries to piss on the x-stats so far already, heh.

Why? is it because the three matches with old characters we've had didn't go as planned?
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I've been Pwned by KoaC. He really is the king of all cosmos.

Bowser's percentage of the vote between 8:00 and 8:30 -- 71.12%

Ouch.
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Summer Contest 2005: 13/14
Today: Bowser, Tomorrow: Ryu

Surely is; I know some matches are goin' against some peoples' expectations far too much for them to agree with the stats any longer, despite knowing that most have had new characters involved.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

It's about time for me to go to work...I'm glad I didn't take Master Mage up on a sig-bet about Chun-Li gettin' 36+% now though, heh.

A moral victory, nonetheless, MM.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Bowser kicks so much ass <3
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Don't even bother reading this sig.

So...how about that Spring Contest?

*gets shot down by 10 people saying Chun's strength was unkonwn and we can't tell if Bowser Spring Stats were legit yet*

Fine fine, but Bowser > Ryu just got knocked down a notch on the worry level for me, but Ryu might be able to just bump it back up tommorrow.
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It's MOOOOOOLLLLLTTTAAAARRRR!!!!

If Bowser's 2k3 value is still accurate, Chun is getting dangerously close to the VFL. Chun through Sp2k5 Bowser is a half percent under Kefka.
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Summer Contest 2005: 13/14
Today: Bowser, Tomorrow: Ryu

The Nintendo gauntlet is looking evermore deadly for Solid Snake.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

Haha! This is kick ass.

Bowser over Solid Snake is going down, people! =p

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Mario's Path to Victory: Round 2 - (4) Ness
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/135/cunningplan32kw.jpg

I was thinking about Squall vs. Magus a little while ago. I honestly don't think this match will be close and that Magus will win with 55-57% of the vote. I can't see why Squall would win that match.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 12/14 points
Current Match Prediction: Bowser vs. Chun-Li

I swear, Nintnedo is a machine this year. They have won every match and normally win them convincingly. Regardless of the vote totals in some matches, this is looking like their year. <3

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Mario's Path to Victory: Round 2 - (4) Ness
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/135/cunningplan32kw.jpg

Ah, can't beat everyone making something out of a bunch of unknown. Ryu will be far and away ahead of Chun-Li. He can still beat Bowser.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

I swear, Nintnedo is a machine this year. They have won every match and normally win them convincingly. Regardless of the vote totals in some matches, this is looking like their year. <3

Yeah, considering they were supposed to win all of those matches (except Ness/CJ), I would hope they've won all of them. Honestly, they've yet to be in a match where somebody punches them in the mouth and fights with them, nor have they really faced anybody with a definite value (except Zelda). Come next round, I think this is going to turn out to be much ado about nothing.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

I swear, Nintnedo is a machine this year. They have won every match and normally win them convincingly. Regardless of the vote totals in some matches, this is looking like their year. <3

The only match anyone could consider unconvincing is gannon vs yuna, and that's only if you think yuna wouldn't increase at all after starring in a final fanatasy game, after being in only one game before, and not being the lead character in it, which is a rather ridiculous thing to assume.
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I swear, Nintnedo is a machine this year. They have won every match and normally win them convincingly. Regardless of the vote totals in some matches, this is looking like their year. <3

Amen to that. Nintendo has been beyond impressive these first two weeks. Hell, the only performance we can't deem a complete success was Ganondorf's, and since Yuna starred in another million seller since 2003, his effort still wasn't bad.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

So Yuna can make a complete jump to Tidus's 2004 level without any questions, huh?
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno