Assuming Luca's as strong as 2k4 said he was and the Kefka/Wesker match needs to be thrown out the window, I think Lloyd-to-Mithos would now have the closest hero-to-villain ratio...even closer than Cloud-to-Sephiroth (though C-to-S was closer than this in 2k3).
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

On the bright side.... if Lloyd continues this steady rate of growth, my Prophet Challenge pick will be great!

And I thik the C-to-S ratio of 2003 was the right one. Ness/CJ pretty much told the tale that there really was SFF in the Cloud/Seph/Auron/Vivi chain, confirming suspicions arising from Scorpion and DK. And I think it was in Cloud/Seph, since the two had faced off before with different results.

My point being, if you have anyone beating Seph before the ToC finals, you're screwed.
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SC2K5 status - Points: 002/003 - Matches: 02/03 - Rank: 12444/33793 - Today: Lloyd - Tomorrow: Samus

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

That's it. This contest officially makes no sense.

Be prepared to see Samus either get 95% or 66% tomorrow.
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"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

There was certainly SFF in Seph/Vivi and Seph/Auron beforehand, anyways; Cloud SFF'ing Seph makes Auron look better against Ganon.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Assuming Luca's as strong as 2k4 said he was and the Kefka/Wesker match needs to be thrown out the window, I think Lloyd-to-Mithos would now have the closest hero-to-villain ratio...even closer than Cloud-to-Sephiroth (though C-to-S was closer than this in 2k3).

It's possible that both Lloyd and Mithos got the full support of the ToS fanbase, and that said fan base isn't very large. It would make sense. Other hero/villain relationships are greater because the heroes/games are MUCH more popular than Lloyd/ToS.

Also, Kefka might have played more of a role in this than we previously thought. We assume that most gamers have played FFVI, and thus most people should know who Kefka is. But we also know that MANY gamers on GameFAQS didn't start playing games until the PS came out. That being said, some of the older games in the spring contest may have benefited more on franchise votes than we give credit for (that's another theory, so I'll stay on topic). I was leading to the point that there still may be a number of people that haven't played FFVI.

Now back to the Spring Contest. Kefka's 3D model pic against Mithos is horrible. I don't think that anybody who did not know who Kefka was would vote for him looking like that. Thus, Mithos probably got a lot of those votes. And with the low vote totals of that match (10th lowest match in the contest), those votes made Mithos's percentage look really good.

Now against Wesker, Kefka was given a much more favorable look with the angel pic and the heaven background. Wesker's pic was plain and out of place in that pic. I could see a lot of voters who didn't know either character or was indifferent voting for Kefka even though the angel pic isn't THAT great. But compared to his other pics, it is infinitely better. I think we are putting too much faith in FFVI's popularity. There are probably a lot of people that actually don't know who Kefka is. Just a theory....

Now back to todays match. There are probably a significant amount of voters who don't know or are indifferent to both characters. Both characters don't look all that impressive, but they BOTH at least look better than "autistic Kefka". So a lot of the indifference may be spread out in this match.

Of course, this whole theory is based on how many people don't know the characters or are indifferent to the said characters. It's just one possibility I'm throwing out.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

That being said, some of the older games in the spring contest may have benefited more on franchise votes than we give credit for

Interesting theory; I'm certain afew games benefitted from this, though I didn't really consider FF3/6 to be one of them. I'd like to see ya elaborate on this sometime.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Based on Wesker's Spring Contest XS:
92 Iori Yagami 14.98
93 Albedo Piasora 14.68
94 Q*Bert 14.58
Lloyd Irving 14.53
95 Sigma 14.21
96 Ryo Hazuki 14.20
97 Kyo Kusanagi 13.93

Based on a constant Luca Blight:
75 Vergil 18.06
76 Kite 18.00
77 Max Payne 17.79
Lloyd Irving 17.77
78 Pikachu 17.73
79 Protoman 17.62
80 Crash Bandicoot 17.30
81 Simon Belmont 16.88
82 Dr. Robotnik 16.59
Albert Wesker 16.43
83 Mithos 16.33

Lloyd's expected % on Mithos: 54.05%. I think 2k4 Jill/Nemmy is slightly closer.
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"Luca Blight's insane. He's a wolf raised on the smell of fire and the taste of blood."" ~ Viktor, Suikoden II

From: HaRRicH | Posted: 7/22/2005 10:59:49 AM | #056
There was certainly SFF in Seph/Vivi and Seph/Auron beforehand, anyways; Cloud SFF'ing Seph makes Auron look better against Ganon.

If there was, it was negligeable for all intents and purposes. Remember the talk of Seph not SFFing Vivi at all going by DK on the day of the match?
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SC2K5 status - Points: 002/003 - Matches: 02/03 - Rank: 12444/33793 - Today: Lloyd - Tomorrow: Samus

I'm finding it funny that it's already been said the contest makes no sense:

--Mario beat the everloving hell out of Joanna.
--Ness has been under-rated by the stats the past two years, and IGN showed Vercetti > CJ.
--Ryu finally got a picture we could recognize him with facing Zero, who could have been adjusted too high.
--Angel Kefka skewed how Luca/Wesker should have really been, and Diablo not gettin' linkage against Ganon trickled down to Wesker. It also looks like Lloyd isn't all that much more favored than Mithos...the weirdest part I've seen in the four matches thus far.

It should also be said that three of the eight characters mentioned are brand-spanking new, and one of 'em is from the ever-controversial Villain Contest. The contest DOES make sense; we're just lettin' our premature estimations get in the way. Fortunately, we're gettin' some answers.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Well, this makes it the second new character to horrifically bomb.

And Vivi > Zelda once again.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

...? By my calculations, assuming DK was steady, Vivi should have 27.04% on Link 2k4 (as opposed to his SFF'd 25.22%) and 31.89% against Sephiroth (as opposed to his SFF'd 29.75%). Granted, nothing huge, but it still makes a noticable impact.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Third new character, ya mean.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

Too bad with the guy with Lloyd Over Zero >_>
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Bracket: Lloyd: Vote: Wesker: Points: 2/3

^^^
No second...unless you call Joanna's performance a 'bombing'

Now back to the Spring Contest. Kefka's 3D model pic against Mithos is horrible. I don't think that anybody who did not know who Kefka was would vote for him looking like that. Thus, Mithos probably got a lot of those votes. And with the low vote totals of that match (10th lowest match in the contest), those votes made Mithos's percentage look really good.

Now against Wesker, Kefka was given a much more favorable look with the angel pic and the heaven background. Wesker's pic was plain and out of place in that pic. I could see a lot of voters who didn't know either character or was indifferent voting for Kefka even though the angel pic isn't THAT great. But compared to his other pics, it is infinitely better. I think we are putting too much faith in FFVI's popularity. There are probably a lot of people that actually don't know who Kefka is. Just a theory....

Now back to todays match. There are probably a significant amount of voters who don't know or are indifferent to both characters. Both characters don't look all that impressive, but they BOTH at least look better than "autistic Kefka". So a lot of the indifference may be spread out in this match.

I stated this in one line. >_>
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SC2K5- Mario, Frog, Snake, Tidus, Crono, Knuckles, Sonic, Ocelot
I prefer to think that SFF stands for Some Frivolous Factor. ~Dabu

In other words, the picture makes a difference. Which is why I ignored Kefka Vs. Wesker the entire time.

But of course, you always have people that like to tell themselves that the picture didn't really matter at all. Yeah yeah....
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Blank

Bombing as far as what she was expected to do? Probably not too much, no...but bombing as far as general strength? Yes sir; she's below Gordon Freeman, assuming Mario 2k4 = Mario 2k5.
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

I'm off for work now...but I'll ask this: head-to-head, who wins between Wesker and Mithos?
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Hillary Clinton: We need to treat violent video games the way we treat tobacco or alcohol.
Lewis Black: Namely as valued contributors to our re-election fund.

After today, Wesker.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

If there was, it was negligeable for all intents and purposes. Remember the talk of Seph not SFFing Vivi at all going by DK on the day of the match?

Well, if you adjust Sephiroth up to his 2k3 levels, then he didn't SFF Vivi. I think that's a bad idea, though. And, if you increase Vivi based on a constant DK (either through Seph SFFing him or Cloud SFFing Seph), he gets 29.1% on base Link. For reference, Zelda was at 30.29%, and both of her matches are somewhat suspect.
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"Luca Blight's insane. He's a wolf raised on the smell of fire and the taste of blood."" ~ Viktor, Suikoden II

I don't think FFVI really got that many franchise votes. It still performed better than FFX.

Also, in response to the "Everyone hates Lloyd" people.

First of all:

Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus

And Mithos is way more hated than Lloyd anyway, and Yggrdassil appears in the game less than Mithos does, and I don't recall him being particularly well-liked either.
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"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

I wish we could see Angel Kefka losing against say, Mario. That would give us a better idea of the effect of the pic...
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SC2K5- Mario, Frog, Snake, Tidus, Crono, Knuckles, Sonic, Ocelot
I prefer to think that SFF stands for Some Frivolous Factor. ~Dabu

I have never posted in one of these topics. I think maybe....I should.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3. Today - Lloyd. Tomorrow - Samus.
If I win, LuniNutz99 gets a free game.

From: Shadowdude II | Posted: 7/22/2005 9:03:57 AM | Message Detail
I wish we could see Angel Kefka losing against say, Mario. That would give us a better idea of the effect of the pic...

Well, if Kefka beats Vercetti he might get his Angel sprite in the next round. We'll see then.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus

Isn't hated that much at all.
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SC2K5- Mario, Frog, Snake, Tidus, Crono, Knuckles, Sonic, Ocelot
I prefer to think that SFF stands for Some Frivolous Factor. ~Dabu

I don't think FFVI really got that many franchise votes. It still performed better than FFX.

And it generally places 2nd in the "Favorite Final Fantasy?" polls. I think you can make an argument for some games getting franchise votes (the original Final Fantasy among them), but not VI.
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"Luca Blight's insane. He's a wolf raised on the smell of fire and the taste of blood."" ~ Viktor, Suikoden II

Sprites in the second round? Jumping the gun a bit isn't it?
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Blank

Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1754
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"Luca Blight's insane. He's a wolf raised on the smell of fire and the taste of blood."" ~ Viktor, Suikoden II

From: The n00b Avenger | Posted: 7/22/2005 9:06:20 AM | Message Detail
Sprites in the second round? Jumping the gun a bit isn't it?

Yeah, I know but sprites usually come after close-up shots so there's a chance it could happen.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

I assumed he was just switching around the head and body shots.
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Blank

From: The n00b Avenger | Posted: 7/22/2005 9:08:41 AM | Message Detail
I assumed he was just switching around the head and body shots.

That's what I think too, but I'm just saying there's a possibility that he might use sprites in Round 2.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

And if not, you know what that means....

LETTUCE BABY

I was hoping Kefka gets his NORMAL close up in the first round. You know, not the mongoloid that dipped his head in a vat of random make-up.

Just kidding! Ceej is the one that makes the pictures so that won't happem.
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Blank

I really wouldn't be surprised if the prediction percentage for this match falls below 50%. Alot of the casual bracketmakers seem to have no idea who Lloyd is. And then Board 8 can restore some of its dignity after our humiliation at the hands of Ness.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

I don't think FFVI really got that many franchise votes. It still performed better than FFX.

I didn't say that it WASN'T a popular game. It was really in defense of people that point to the spring contest when the subject of people not knowing who Kefka is. You don't have to know who Kefka is to vote for FFVI...
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

And it generally places 2nd in the "Favorite Final Fantasy?" polls. I think you can make an argument for some games getting franchise votes (the original Final Fantasy among them), but not VI

That's not saying much. It probably is the second most favorite FF, but it still doesn't mean that everyone has played it. Do you have the link to that poll? I don't feel like searching. How much of a percentage did FFVII take?
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I was half hoping that Wesker would come back when I woke up. I'm bored.

~*ST*~
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Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to be destroyed... I must simply laugh!" -Magus

If you are bored...read my column! Always good for satirical laughs!
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Steve Illumina: 'Sage of Board 8', Renowned Author, MK Master, Noob Basher & Fanbaby Smacker! Score: 3/4

*reads Steve's column*
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Summer 2005 Contest Score : 4/4
Rank : 1/33793 Today: Lloyd. Tomorrow: Samus.

Well, Lloyd's slowly increasing in percentage. Looks like the Spring Contest was at least right about Wesker making Chrono Trigger look like a day vote king.
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That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ZSB [aX]

CT's got nothing on Alucard in terms of crappiness with the day vote.
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SC2K5 status - Points: 002/003 - Matches: 02/03 - Rank: 12444/33793 - Today: Lloyd - Tomorrow: Samus

I think we can all agree Kuja was the master of failing the day vote.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

Kuja and Robutt were equally bad. Remember that Robutt lost about 4-5% or so to all of his opponents during the day.
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That... was her final mission. And like a true soldier, she saw it through the end.
ZSB [aX]

Yeah, but I think Kuja edges Robotnik out because Kuja went from a 500 vote lead to losing by over 5000 votes.
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Summer 2005 Contest - 2/3 points
Current Match Prediction: Lloyd Irving vs. Albert Wesker

Do you have the link to that poll? I don't feel like searching. How much of a percentage did FFVII take?

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1573

It's safe to say that most of III's votes were for VI, as well.
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"Luca Blight's insane. He's a wolf raised on the smell of fire and the taste of blood."" ~ Viktor, Suikoden II

Isn't hated that much at all.

Tidus and Lloyd are hated pretty much equally by their fanbases here on Board 8. Maybe there is slightly more board hate for Lloyd, but I would take it with a grain of salt. I don't remember this many people hating him here on Board 8 when the game first came out. Board 8 can shift around a lot in that respect.
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"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus Tidus

Isn't hated that much at all.

I have seen far more hate for Tidus than I have for Lloyd. A lot of people dislike Lloyd, but I don't believe I've seen him called "one of the worst characters ever," as I have with Tidus. Granted, like with FFVIII, the haters are far more vocal than the lovers, but still, he IS hated.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Contest 2005 Championship
Round 1: (7) Geno

I have seen far more hate for Tidus than I have for Lloyd.

Same here, and I'm completely objective on the matter because I've played neither game.
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

A lot of people who hate Tidus are a lot like him. I mean, they whine a lot when they don't get what they want.
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Look at my Winter Contest 2K4/2K5 Analysis Fanfic: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=579546
End of message. ~ Garsha