SACRELAGE!!!!!111

*sacrifices j00 to DRAK SMAUS*
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SC2K5 bracket: Samus over Snake, Crono over Megaman, Samus over Crono; Link over Sephiroth

I missed the FFT discussion, but I was one of those people that did not like the game because of its battle system, and my inability to defeat Gafgarion at the battle at the castle next to the Golgarond Execution Site (yay for prepositional phrases). I got some advice on that battle, and then from there on the game was pretty darn good, with a couple notable exceptions: SPOILERS PERHAPS






(horrific rooftop battle with saving stupid Rafa, suber-uber random monk battle, and the horrific supernatural plot twist, to name a few)



END SPOILERS

Now I am glad I gave the game a chance, because it was a good 60 or so hours. Not 5300, but there are very few games I enjoy enough to even think about a replay. To this day, the only RPGs I have ever played entirely were Secret of Mana, Dragon Warrior and Dragon Warrior III (though these stem from the ability to beat them in a couple days of binging, unlike most the next-gen RPGs).

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/2005
YoBlazer(33) & Robotnik pwned my (Ro)butt in Sp2k5

I used to just bring a black chocobo and get Ramza out of there, then come back when everyone else is dead.

DW3 is a top 5 NES game to me.
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A quick aside to therealmnm about Terra and Yuna:

You were the one, I believe, talking about appeal being very important. Yuna...has no...appeal. Perhaps...it's because of...the Shatner-esque...voice actor, or perhaps...it's because...she is such a weak character (early Terra, the "Is that a bad man?" Terra, is weak, but we'll chalk that up to a side effect of the Slave Crown). There are certainly other reasons, as well, but Yuna has neither the badass appeal of Auron or the normal guy/lead character appeal of Tidus. And she would still get 65.19% on Sin, since I know you love numbers so much.
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"I have ambitions beyond becoming a god, you know." ~ Lezard Valeth, Valkyrie Profile

And I did forget Nemmy:

Nemesis would get 46.76% on 2k4 Jill
Nemesis would get 41.77% on 2k3 Jill

I haven't the slightest idea why Nemesis is the closest villain to his hero, particularly when Wesker has a normal ratio.
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"I have ambitions beyond becoming a god, you know." ~ Lezard Valeth, Valkyrie Profile

Favorite Series of Mine:

1. Final Fantasy
2. Mario
3. Mega Man


As for Auron vs. Ganondorf .. I'll say Ganondorf takes the win by a hair .. as for Luigi vs. Tifa .. Tifa easily takes it..

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~ExquisiteSamurai~

People have mentioned Kratos being more popular than Lloyd before and I have to disagree. Here's why:

*TOS Spoilers*



























No matter how much of a fan favorite Kratos is, he is only in your party for the first 30-35% of the game and at the end for a little depending what path you take. And his presence for the latter part of the game is arguably comparable to that of Mithos. I really think that his minor presence for the latter 2/3 of the game could hurt him. The relationship Lloyd/Kratos most resembles is Tidus/Auron and we can't even agree who's more popular when Auron is in your party for 3/4 of the game. Kratos is in your party for a much shorter period of time, and I really think this will hurt him.
































*End Spoilers*
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"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

...

I just realized that Zelda > Snake actually is plausible. I don't think I'd change my pick, but it freaks me out that it could be pretty close and I never looked into it.

///
*Has KOS-MOS > Luigi*

I am quite comfortable having Lloyd over Kratos ..

But Board 8 Contest Stats and Discussion peeps.. I need to know how you guys feel on these matches and provide reasons if you can ... (I am sure you guys have debate about it many times before) .. Sorry beforehand.. and Thank You in advance..

Vivi vs. Zelda .. Right now I have Zelda but I am only about 52% on this one..

Ryu vs. Bowser .. Right now I have Ryu but Bowser seems to be the favorite ..

Ryu/Bowser vs. Tidus ... No clue

Snake vs. Ryu/Bowser/Tidus .. I have Snake and am about 60% sure on this one..

Kefka vs. Tommy Vercetti .. As of right now I have TV but it does seem like Kefka is the favorite...??..??

Alucard vs. Sora .. Right now I have Sora but not confident at all on this one.. 50%

Donkey Kong vs. Sam Fisher .. DK will win right?? I just need to make sure.. =)

I would go into Vincent but you guys have talked endlessly about him so I'll will stray away from it..

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~ExquisiteSamurai~

Vivi vs. Zelda .. Right now I have Zelda but I am only about 52% on this one..

Vivi through DK and 2k3 Zelda are nearly even, with Zelda having the slight advantage. Things to consider include whether you think DK was constant, if Lara's precipitous drop negatively affects Zelda, or if Zelda has increased along with Link and Ganondorf.

Ryu vs. Bowser .. Right now I have Ryu but Bowser seems to be the favorite ..

If you think the Spring contest is viable, Bowser should be able to win. If you don't, pick Ryu.

Ryu/Bowser vs. Tidus ... No clue

I have Kirby over Tidus (OMG TRAP MATCH!), but pick Tidus if you think his 2k3 value is legit and last year was a fluke or Ryu/Bowser if otherwise.

Snake vs. Ryu/Bowser/Tidus .. I have Snake and am about 60% sure on this one..

Snake is certainly the favorite, but the other three could beat him if he didn't get much from MGS3.

Kefka vs. Tommy Vercetti .. As of right now I have TV but it does seem like Kefka is the favorite...??..??

Going by the BOP, Vercetti is actually the favorite, but, hey, the board loves Kefka and isn't that big on GTA.

Alucard vs. Sora .. Right now I have Sora but not confident at all on this one.. 50%

Depends on what you think of Ganondorf, really. If his 2k3 value is accurate (and the Spring contest seems to show that it was), then Alucard should win. If not, Sora wins, though it will be close either way.

Donkey Kong vs. Sam Fisher .. DK will win right?? I just need to make sure.. =)

Yes.

I would go into Vincent but you guys have talked endlessly about him so I'll will stray away from it..

Good.
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"I have ambitions beyond becoming a god, you know." ~ Lezard Valeth, Valkyrie Profile

Thanks RPGuy

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~ExquisiteSamurai~

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1445

Magus fans.

how do you like these apples.


>.>


*runs*


KB

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1445

That, I'll wager, will not hold up very well. Cecil being the 3rd strongest lead would be awesome, though.

...


Cecil for Dream Division champion!
---
"I have ambitions beyond becoming a god, you know." ~ Lezard Valeth, Valkyrie Profile

(Tales of Symphonia Spoilers)








No matter how much of a fan favorite Kratos is, he is only in your party for the first 30-35% of the game and at the end for a little depending what path you take.

He is in the game from beginning to around the middle, then you only occasionally see him collecting items throughout Tethe'alla. He's there for what some would consider an "important" part of the game in the beginning. He also plays a very significant role toward the end of the game. The shift is sent to Lloyd, Kratos, and Mithos all toward the end, regardless of whether or not you get him in your party at Flanoir.

With most game leads, there are a number of people who still like him. Tidus, despite not being favored much here, still has people who like him. The amount that like Lloyd is so very small, especially as a favorite. Yes, you could attach the "main character" bit as being recognizable to those who might not have played the game, but Kratos appears so early that noticing him wouldn't be farfetched to believe either. I think Kratos will end up being stronger than Lloyd if he's around the level of KOS-MOS. I can see Kratos beating Diablo in a close match, so I suppose I would be just solely sticking him somewhere as opposed to Lloyd. But if Lloyd does end up at KOS-MOS' level, or around there, I wouldn't doubt Kratos to be stronger, if only by a small amount.

And his presence for the latter part of the game is arguably comparable to that of Mithos.

No, not really. Toward the middle of the game, yes. But as everything starts coming to a close, Kratos has a far more important role than Mithos. You spend time searching for him in the Torrent Forest, you spend the night in Heimdall thinking/talking about facing Kratos, etc. The story portion is more focused on Kratos at that ending part.

I'll admit that Kratos can definitely be weaker than Lloyd. It isn't a guarantee at all that Kratos would be ahead, but I do think it's likely we'll see such a thing happen.

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“Yeah, sure. I always see it. But… who cares? I speak with passion, from the heart! That’s what matters most.”
Laguna Loire

Cecil for Dream Division champion!

Hah! I had the same thought when I saw that poll. =p

But I had no idea that many people favored Cecil. That's rather recent too, around November 2003. I think Cecil could do better than I gave him credit for before, although he'll still end up losing, which sucks.

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“Yeah, sure. I always see it. But… who cares? I speak with passion, from the heart! That’s what matters most.”
Laguna Loire

With most game leads, there are a number of people who still like him. Tidus, despite not being favored much here, still has people who like him. The amount that like Lloyd is so very small, especially as a favorite.

I don't know where you've been, but lots of people like Lloyd. The example you used, Tidus, was beat by both Auron and Rikku in a poll for Best Character in FFX. IMO, if a poll like that was held for TOS, I would see it going almost exactly the same way. I would be very surprised if Lloyd was not third behind Kratos and Sheena, and would not be surprised in the least if he managed to pull out second.
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"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

I like to think Lloyd is hated by the majority of the board as well as many others, including myself. He is truly not a likable character and annoys the crap out of me, at least. I honestly thought he might turn into a villain for a brief period of time, which would be great. The final battle: all your party members ripping Lloyd apart to bite-size pieces. ^_^

///
*Has KOS-MOS > Luigi*

I just did my Kratos/Diablo analysis, and right now I have Diablo winning with 54%. This would make Kratos = Kefka.

So...Kratos or Kefka?
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Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!

Kefka, though if I had my way they'd both lose.
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The King of all Cosmos' route to summer victory:
Round 1: (4) Tidus... LET ME DREAM :

we did Kratos/Kefka a couple topics ago. I'd take Kratos, considering how well Mithos did.
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I was reading through these posts, and I noticed RPGuy's post about the strength of Nemesis when compared to Jill Valentine. Please forgive me, folks, if you find this theory I am about to propose absolutely stupid, but it has been on my mind as of late.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Continuity Factor
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Case #1: Revolver Ocelot
The Spring Contest 2005

Match #1: Revolver Ocelot defeats Nemesis with 54.66%
Match Picture: http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/spc2k5/thumb_b03.jpg
Commentary: Heading into this match, most considered Revolver Ocelot to lay waste to Nemesis. Instead, the Russian mastermind could not manage to impress, and many concluded that the once favored man's journey would end against Dr. Wily.
The Continuity Factor: In this match, Revolver Ocelot received a picture from Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, a game that portrayed him in an entirely different light than the well-received Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater did.

Match #2: Revolver Ocelot defeats Dr. Wily with 54.51%
Match Picture: http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/spc2k5/thumb_b18.jpg
Commentary: Due to Revolver Ocelot's lackluster performance in the previous match, many considered Dr. Wily to have a legitimate upper-hand. Well, apparently, having no hand is better than having an upper-hand, pun intended. The same Revolver Ocelot that beat Nemesis with underwhelming numbers beat Dr. Wily, who is most likely stronger, with an almost identical percentage.
The Continuity Factor: In this particular match, Revolver Ocelot received a picture from Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater, a game that depicted him as a younger, more affable rival instead of such a sinister villain.

Match #2: Revolver Ocelot loses to Bowser Koopa with 34.01%
Match Picture: http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/spc2k5/thumb_b26.jpg
Commentary: Many were quickly anticipating this match after Revolver Ocelot's previous endeavor. However, while Revolver Ocelot performed respectively, his numbers were still slightly underwhelming, especially when compared to his previous performance.
The Continuity Factor: In this particular match, Revolver Ocelot received a concept artwork from Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty, an obvious difference from his Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater model.

Conclusions: I strongly believe that Revolver Ocelot both benefitted and weakened at the hands of TCF (The Continuity Factor). Pictures normally do not make a huge difference, but when this difference includes a character as a rival of twenty years and a backstabber of sixty years, there is a significant difference. In any case, Revolver Ocelot performed equally to his picture, depicting a strong sense of loyalty among Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater fans. Recency also plays into this.

~*The Metal Gear Master*~
---<3---
The Author of Metal Gear Solid: Dawn of the Concealed
The CAC5 Website ~~~ www.freewebs.com/createacharacter

Case #2: Vergil Sparda
The Spring Contest 2005

Match #1: Vergil Sparda defeats Ghaleon with 64.45%
Match Picture: http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/spc2k5/thumb_b06.jpg
Commentary: Among most of the users, Vergil Sparda was recognized as the clear favorite of the match. And, indeed, he delivered. His performance, if for nothing else, impressed me.
The Continuity Factor: In this particular match, Vergil Sparda received a picture from the game everyone anticipated: Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening. In reality, this is the only game he should have received pictures from.

Match #2: Vergil Sparda loses to Sephiroth with 21.19%
Match Picture: http://www.sc2k5.com/gallery/albums/spc2k5/thumb_b19.jpg
Commentary: Yes, I do realize that nobody expected him to defeat Sephiroth. But, that is not the point. Vergil Sparda had a great opportunity to demonstrate the ability to dent Sephiroth, as Bowser Koopa portrayed. Instead, the brother of evil performed quite underwhelmingly.
The Continuity Factor: In this particular match, Vergil Sparda received a picture from the original Devil May Cry, as Nelo Angelo.

Conclusions: Much like Revolver Ocelot, I believe Vergil Sparda was weakened tremendously in the second round, and also strengthened in the first round by TCF (The Continuity Factor). When he received a picture from his more recent, featured game, he did extremely well, but when he received a picture in a completely different light, aka, encased in metal, his performance ranked in at underwhelming.

Basically, I think there are some significant adjustments to be made to the Extrapolated Statistics due to TCF, as characters like Revolver Ocelot and Vergil Sparda most patently suffer and benefit the most from the factor's double-edged sword. I suppose we will see how this theory holds up in Revolver Ocelot's matches during the Summer Contest 2005. The same goes for Big Boss, though judging the extent of TCF's effect will be difficult with a single match.

I hope I did not watse your time ...

~*The Metal Gear Master*~
---<3---
The Author of Metal Gear Solid: Dawn of the Concealed
The CAC5 Website ~~~ www.freewebs.com/createacharacter

Ocelot lost because he was facing Bowser. Virgil lost cause he was facing Sephiroth. I don't see how else you can look at this.

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That was not exactly the point of that theory ...

~*The Metal Gear Master*~
---<3---
The Author of Metal Gear Solid: Dawn of the Concealed
The CAC5 Website ~~~ www.freewebs.com/createacharacter

Lloyd is the only playable character in ToS that I really didn't like, especially after seeing Sheena's Flanoir scene.

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2nd Place, Spring Contest 2005
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

I don't know where you've been, but lots of people like Lloyd.

What?! No, they do not. The fanbase of Tales of Symphonia likes Kratos, Sheena, and Zelos all before Lloyd. I'm not saying that the other two would be stronger, but I have no idea where you got this idea that people liked Lloyd. Many people dislike them. That combined with Kratos being such a dominant favorite above all the other Tales of Symphonia characters seems to me like there's a good chance that Kratos could be more popular than him.

and would not be surprised in the least if he managed to pull out second.

I would be very surprised if he pulled a second. There have been far more people liking Sheena and Zelos over Lloyd. And no, I'm not using this board to get that information. Although this board does seem to dislike Lloyd as well, which is no surprise given who else they don't like.

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“Yeah, sure. I always see it. But… who cares? I speak with passion, from the heart! That’s what matters most.”
Laguna Loire

Ocelot lost because he was facing Bowser. Virgil lost cause he was facing Sephiroth. I don't see how else you can look at this.

The point was to look at how much they lost by...
---
"Heil Dweebenheimer!"
MasterMage119

MasterMage just pointed out to me that I linked to the wrong picture for Bowser vs Ocelot. Sorry about that.

~*The Metal Gear Master*~
---<3---
The Author of Metal Gear Solid: Dawn of the Concealed
The CAC5 Website ~~~ www.freewebs.com/createacharacter

Case #2: Vergil Sparda

I hope no one catches on that and is angered.

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“Yeah, sure. I always see it. But… who cares? I speak with passion, from the heart! That’s what matters most.”
Laguna Loire

That wasn't Bowser it was Mario in disguise!

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A E I OWN U

yeah, I know; my point is that it's overanalyzing. I don't think pictures would help a lot when taking on powerhouses like Seph and Bowser. I'd believe it for Ocelot/Wily or Virgil/Ghaleon, but not those two.

if anything, Vergil is overrated because of Ghaleon's picture.

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No mention of Castlevania... ;_;
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SC2K5 Elite Eight: Mario, Frog, Snake, Tidus, Crono, Knuckles, Sonic, Ocelot

he fanbase of Tales of Symphonia likes Kratos, Sheena, and Zelos all before Lloyd

*agrees with HM*

I bet somewhere out there, a planet just imploded because of that.

Anyway, I would still vote for Lloyd over most characters, even though I like those 3 more characters more than him.
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Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!

Auron did a full 9-10 percent worse against sephiroth than ganondorf did. although it is to my belief that sephirtoh dropped and also that the spring contest doesn't provide an accurate view of character strength.

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All my base are belong to Yoblazer, winner of the Guru Contest.

Auron got hit by a little thing called SFF against Seph.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!

As for the Continuity thing, I really don't see much people voting for a certain character just because of the picture.

I mean, it still has the character's name right beside them.

"Since Ocelot has his MGS2 picture, I'm not going to vote for him, but I would if he had his MGS3 pic." or "I'll vote for Vergil with his DMC3 pic, but not the DMC1 pic"

Eh, I don't like it.
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Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
SC2K5: Samus is going all the way!

From: Dilated Chemist
That wasn't Bowser it was Mario in disguise!

XD
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"Why would the boost from AC be bigger than those?" - Mac Arrowny
"Because (Heroic Mario) just replayed Final Fantasy VII." - Lucid Faia

The only match I am still mulling over is Alucard/Sora. I know everything I picked outside of that match makes it clear that Alucard should win, but Im having one of those "Cant See It Happen" disorders.
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"Why would the boost from AC be bigger than those?" - Mac Arrowny
"Because (Heroic Mario) just replayed Final Fantasy VII." - Lucid Faia

Eh, I don't like it.

I don't either. I seriously doubt the pictures are having that much of an effect on the performances of the characters. Like you said, they still do have their name right there.

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“Yeah, sure. I always see it. But… who cares? I speak with passion, from the heart! That’s what matters most.”
Laguna Loire

My favorite TOS characters are Lloyd, Colette, and Kratos in no particular order. Sheena had always annoyed me and Zelo's lines of flirting got old after awhile.
---
Happiness is like peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you feel it's warmth.

Depends on what you think of Ganondorf, really. If his 2k3 value is accurate (and the Spring contest seems to show that it was), then Alucard should win.

I don't get why Alucard absolutely has to be adjusted upwards if Ganon made an increase between 2004 and Spring 2005.

~*ST*~
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Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to be destroyed... I must simply laugh!" -Magus

I don't get why Alucard absolutely has to be adjusted upwards if Ganon made an increase between 2004 and Spring 2005.

Because if he "gained" between summer in spring, it's likely that we just adjusted the SFF wrong in the summer, and he didn't actually gain in THAT time at all, but just gained for the summer. And it's very probable that if Link gained, Ganondorf gained, since the gain is attributable to Collector's Edition being packed with GCN.
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"Heil Dweebenheimer!"
MasterMage119

Zelo's lines of flirting got old after awhile.

Lloyd's stupidity was what got old. It was like dealing with a four-year-old.

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2nd Place, Spring Contest 2005
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

No Collette was like dealing with a 4 year old. Genis was a little racist punk. I liked the gameplay and all, but outside of Kratos and Raine, the characters just werent likeable at all.
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"Why would the boost from AC be bigger than those?" - Mac Arrowny
"Because (Heroic Mario) just replayed Final Fantasy VII." - Lucid Faia

And it's very probable that if Link gained, Ganondorf gained, since the gain is attributable to Collector's Edition being packed with GCN.

I don't agree at all with the Collector's Edition being the reason for a Link increase.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I don't agree at all with the Collector's Edition being the reason for a Link increase.

Then... what do you think the reason was?
---
"Heil Dweebenheimer!"
MasterMage119

I've already stated that multiple times... I'm not even saying my position anymore. I just definitely don't agree with a Collector's edition making somebody who's already THAT popular even more so. It's not like the games on the Collector's edition are rare or anything. And I doubt it enticed a bunch of NEW Link fans to get a Gamecube. Link already has a significant amount of fans.

It's similar to the notions that MMAC was going to cause a significant increase for Mega Man, and SFAC was going to cause a significant increase for Ryu. We saw how that turned out.

Does someone have the Gamecube sales numbers for the Zelda Collection package? I don't know the exact numbers. Was there a spike in Gamecube sales?
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

GODDAMNIT! I finally (after about 3 or 4 weeks) get my computer back and conveniently enough, my ISP starts having trouble and I cannot get online. -_-
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Flee back to your masters, Aldaris, and huddle with them in darkness! For your actions shall set us all unto the Zerg! ~ Tassadar

BTW, I'm closing my eyes while all of this ToS talk is going on. I do WANT to play it one day, when all these spoilers I've seen are distant enough to the point that I am actually SOMEWHAT interested when they do come up. -_-
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Does someone have the Gamecube sales numbers for the Zelda Collection package? I don't know the exact numbers. Was there a spike in Gamecube sales?

Wasn't it being bundled with the GCN when the price first dropped to $99 and Nintendo had that huge sales surge? Or is my memory failing me? HM...?
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Flee back to your masters, Aldaris, and huddle with them in darkness! For your actions shall set us all unto the Zerg! ~ Tassadar