It's kinda hard to beat someone of value if you are stuck near Cloud and Sephiroth.
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As much as I want to put something original about the Guru Contest here, I can't, because Yoblazer owned me way too hard.

What I'm saying is that either sp2k5 had no cap or it's cap was awfully high for 32 characters compared to the one for 64 characters which leads me to believe we have a fair chance at our cap being changed this year.
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Yoblazer just kicked my ass!

Using the most accurate X-stats (2003). Auron is behind both Squall and Tidus.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1739
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1319
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1344

Now what were you saying?
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Well Auron got SFF'D in the 2003 xstats, but I would with ease pick Squall and Aeris over Auron, maybe even Tidus.

Who cares if Tidus won Shadow, but he won over the greatest Videogame girl (No it's not Tifa) Claire. Infact he just wanted to screw the X-Stats and lost badly to Megaman last year.

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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

If you think Auron would lose to Squall or Aeris with ease, you're crazy. He just hasn't had a fair chance to show what he's really made of yet. He'll get it this year.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

The order of popularity goes like this.

Cloud
Sephiroth
---------
Tidus
Squall
Aeris
-----
Auron
Vivi
Yuna
----
Kefka
Ramza

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Smurf , the cream of sonic fanboyism

Auron's a bit low there. He's on the same level with Squall and Aeris, at the least.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

In 2k4 Auron is more than safely above Tidus even after adjusting Mega Man (which is an incorrect action).
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Yoblazer just kicked my ass!

You do realize who you're arguing with, correct?
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

The 2k3 X-stats

15 Aeris Gainsborough 32.81% 31.75% East 11 4
16 Squall Leonhart 31.72% 30.70% North 6 6
17 Bowser 30.97% 29.97% East 5 5
18 Ryu 30.69% 29.70% West 5 3
19 Zelda 30.29% 29.32% West 10 4
20 Auron 28.73% 27.80% East 8 6



The 2k4 X-stats

17 Squall Leonhart 29.58% Midgar 4 3 31.72% 30.70%
18 Bowser 28.88% Hyrule 7 6 30.97% 29.97%
19 Alucard 27.74% Hyrule 9 7 29.75% 28.79%
20 Auron 27.38%

Squall is above in both the 2k3 and the 2k4 stats. Aeris got 47% on Sonic in 2k3 while Tidus (Who can be a little stronger or weaker than Auron) 41% in 2k2. I can't see Auron get above 47% on Sonic...

I didn't mean I wouldn't think Auron would do good on Aeris and Squall, I mean I would Squall or Aeris over him without thinking much about it. Oh and I love the fact that Alucard is over Auron in 2k4 even if I would have a hard time to take him over Auron :D



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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

Auron got SFFed by Cloud. FACT. Just look at how Tails jumped subsequently.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

I can't see Auron get above 47% on Sonic...

*refers you back to the three polls I just posted*
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Scorpion likely got more bracket votes on Zero since he made it to the elite eight in 2k2. But who didn't have Auron over Scorpion in 2k4?
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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

Hmm, I never thought of looking at it like that. If Auron/Sonic pops up, I think we may have more than a few users going for Auron, knowing that...
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

You said Terry and Guybrush are must-haves for a contest, and then you talk about bracket votes? Jesus. I won't be able to take you seriously ever again.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

Well duh, many will waste their brackets having someone (not named Clinkeroth or Samus, Megaman, Crono or Mario) to defeat Sonic or Solid Snake before the elite eight.

I know many said that Auron could defeat Sonic last year.
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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

<3 you Slowflake :D
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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

Meh, through Sonic/Dante and Dante/Tails, Sonic is expected to beat Tails with 67.65%. That's a quite a bit better than Auron scored against Tails.

Auron over Solid Snake, though...I'd consider that a great upset special. Maybe Auron over Magus, too...(As for Auron/Ganondorf...that's up to you)

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Scorpion might have dropped somewhat in 2004, but doing about 2% better than Zero is no joke. Auron is at least on the level with him. Not saying he could beat Sonic, but he'd give him a very good fight.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

I can't wait to see Tidus again, just to see what he'll rank around this time around. Can be anywhere from Ganondorf to Knuckles...
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

Multiple perspectives, yeah...don't forget that Sonic is expected to receive about 36% against Link this past year, which Auron didn't quite reach even measuring from '03 Scorpion.

But, okay, I'm fairly open to Auron > Sonic...you never know what could happen year-to-year.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

So the Zelda series cant have three characters, but you are perfectly fine with the Sonic series having FOUR. Especially when one Zelda character is the best in the contest, one could be stronger than the strongest Sonic character, and the other would probably beat the other three.
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NOMINATE Terra, Manny Calavera, and Leon S. Kennedy FOR SC2k5!

Well, I think people are complaining about three Zelda characters because Nintendo has so many characters to choose from multiple series...Sega's mainly popular for their Sonic characters.

Heh, I remember being pretty ticked that the Sonic series had Tails, AND Knuckles in SC2K2, and the Mario series had Mario and...Donkey Kong?!

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Nintendo Characters that should be in the contest:

Mario
Bowser
Luigi
Yoshi
Link
Zelda
Gannondorf
Samus
Fox
Kirby
Donkey Kong
Ness (and if I missed one just replace him with Ness)

12 characters which I think is more than fair.

On the Square Side holding the 12 character limit:

Cloud
Sephiroth
Auron
Tidus
Squall
Crono
Magus
Frog
Vivi
Tifa/Aeris
Terra
Kefka or Ramza or another FFVIII/FFIX characters or Aya

12 More than fair

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NOMINATE Terra, Manny Calavera, and Leon S. Kennedy FOR SC2k5!

what about vincent. after DoC he could be on par with Auron
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

So the Zelda series cant have three characters, but you are perfectly fine with the Sonic series having FOUR. Especially when one Zelda character is the best in the contest, one could be stronger than the strongest Sonic character, and the other would probably beat the other three.

Heh heh, I just thought about it, and checked the SC2K4 bracket again, and that's exactly what happened in SC2K4. Link and Ganondarf, and Sonic, Shadow, Knuckles, and Tails.

If Zelda got shafted out of SC2K4, and the company limits are still at 10 for SC2K5, this just might repeat itself again, moreso than who's happy with what on this.

Personally, I guess it's somewhat of an injustice, but chances are she'll make it this year. CJayC would be foolish to not either raise or take out company limits.
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PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (187 Signs!)

I fail to see why four ff7 characters is too much, but Mario/Luigi/Yoshi/Bowser isn't. I realize they have more games than ff7 does (though ff7 is on pace to release about 45 games this year), but you can easily argue Tifa or Aeris being in the top ten square characters.

I'm not saying put the entire ff7 cast in, but if you're gonna take the entire mario world cast, you've gotta consider a fourth from ff7.

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http://speeddemosarchive.com/mzm.html

I fail to see why four ff7 characters is too much, but Mario/Luigi/Yoshi/Bowser isn't. I realize they have more games than ff7 does (though ff7 is on pace to release about 45 games this year), but you can easily argue Tifa or Aeris being in the top ten square characters.

Hahaha, I don't think so. They're not in the top 10 if they couldn't make it in SC2K4 with the company limit at 10. I don't think Tifa's made it into a contest at all yet, either.

3 FF7 characters is fine, and let it be Aeris that joins Cloud and Seph.
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I fail to understand why the 10/12/14 Square characters to make it in should be the 10/12/14 with the most raw strength. I mean, I'm all for a strong bracket, but some balance must be kept at some point.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

I fail to understand why the 10/12/14 Square characters to make it in should be the 10/12/14 with the most raw strength. I mean, I'm all for a strong bracket, but some balance must be kept at some point.

You're talking to transcience, right?
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eh, I'd put Cloud, Seph, Crono, and Magus above them for sure. after that, I don't think anyone is certain Aeris or Tifa would lose. Tidus, Auron, and Squall might get them, and mayyybe Vivi, but that's still only eight. nominations != strength.

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http://speeddemosarchive.com/mzm.html

Yes.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

Slow, I agree with you. that's why I think Mario/Luigi/Yoshi/Bowser is a bit much.

---
http://speeddemosarchive.com/mzm.html

well Slow, I don't know why you think the 10/12/14 need to basically all be characters we've already seen in action, even if half of them sat out last year or the year before that as well.
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Yoblazer just kicked my ass!

Chichiri, then we can just replace Aeris with Vincent.

In a lot of ways, you could argue the ones we seen are up there in the Square ladder, you mind suggesting other replacements?
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PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (187 Signs!)

with the exception of Zidane and some of the protagonists from ff6, there really isn't any Square character that's worth putting in the contest that hasn't been there already. you can make an argument for Serge, too, and then Tifa/Vincent, but that's about all. I'd like to see Fei in, but that's personal preference more than anything else.

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http://speeddemosarchive.com/mzm.html

I'd take Ryu over Magus without a thought.

I wouldn't dare touch that. It requires Magus to be overrated far too much in the stats for me to believe. I fail to possibly see how anyone could think that Magus -- and Ganon -- are overrated in the stats anyway. There's no way he would lose to Ryu.

but I would with ease pick Squall and Aeris over Auron, maybe even Tidus.

You're vastly underestimating Auron. He would beat all the said characters and then some. The only he maybe couldn't beat is Tidus due to some odd SFF that favored the hero in Tidus. But you've got to him far more credit than that.

---
“The gate of tomorrow is not the light of heaven, but the darkness in the depths of the Earth.”
Vincent Valentine

From Slow:
SQUARE (14): Kefka, Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Squall, Vivi, Tidus, Auron, Yuna, Ramza, Crono, Magus, Frog, Aya.

NINTENDO (13): Mario, Bowser, Yoshi, Luigi, Link, Ganondorf, Zelda, Samus, DK, Fox, Ness, Kirby, Mewtwo.

New Squares: 0. Okay, let's be honest, since Slow just said they don't need to be stacked in power we'll ignore that altogether.

Tidus or Auron can go because 10 only needs one rep, really. Tidus continues to fail expectations by doing poorly when we think he should do well AND by doing well when we think he should do poorly (vs. ganon). Auron, on the other hand, just plain hasn't gotten a fair shake. Drop Tidus.

Kefka is the consensus FF6 rep to a degree, but rotating him out for Terra wouldn't upset many people at all. New blood with the potential to be more well recieved? Gotta go for it.

CT does not need 3 reps. Frog may some day need to prove he wasn't a fluke, but it doesn't have to be now. I'd rather see Magus prove he wasn't a fluke, and I'd rather see some new blood while Frog sits on the bench for a year.

Aeris deserves to be back after her absense, but not at the expense of another. If it makes room for Vincent or Tifa may as well leave Aeris out another year. FF7, of all Square games, is the one that deserves 3 reps.

I'd also say Vivi can sit one out for Zidane, but Vivi went into a potential SFF match and deserves the chance to show what he can do.

Ramza failed to impress anyone, and there are other games that are less represented but just as deserving. Ramza can come back some other time, if ever.

New Nintendos: 1 And let's be honest, not only is he an unlikely one but he's a board thing. Pikachu has a realistic chance of being stronger despite what fanboy logic dictates.

Ness has been in two years, and while I doubt the EB fanbase will fail to score a third for him he really should see the bench

I'd go on, but square frankly has more new characters to get in than Nintendo.
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Yoblazer just kicked my ass!

I'd take Auron over Solid this year...wouldn't take him over Sonic though. People just need to stop forgetting that Auron's beaten Tails, Scorpion, and Ness with about 65% before potentially being SFF'd by two of the three strongest characters we have.
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Guybrush/Manny? God, that match would be like watching two old people have sex.
--Tnote/Heroic Viktor

I would also take him over Solid. I would definitely wait until after KH2 before I even thought about taking him over Sonic though.

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“The gate of tomorrow is not the light of heaven, but the darkness in the depths of the Earth.”
Vincent Valentine

If Auron plays any significant role in Kingdom Hearts 2, I wouldn't hesitate at all to put him over Tidus once that game is released.
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For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

CT does not need 3 reps. Frog may some day need to prove he wasn't a fluke, but it doesn't have to be now. I'd rather see Magus prove he wasn't a fluke, and I'd rather see some new blood while Frog sits on the bench for a year.


To add a large dose of sarcasm to my point, I could say Square doesn't need any reps since they're proven they're co-top dogs with Nintendo, but they definitely deserve reps and it'd be down-right silly to totally shaft Square, right? :-)

So, in the same respect in both points, I have to disagree and say that CT does deserve a third rep, as SPC2K4 runner-up, and specfically in Frog. Frog's proven his strength, and I don't know why he needs to prove he's not a fluke. He was able to bounce back from losing a big lead to Master Chief, then did better against Snake than I ever thought he would. As far as I'm concerned, if there's any questioning Square characters that should be a lock, it's Frog. Even if he should be shafted, who do you replace him with that could justify his expense (and I wouldn't accept a void in Square's expense either)? Dude, keep Frog, and if that means 3 reps for CT, so be it. I think it's very silly to shaft someone who got 48% on a Noble Nine character, leaving him stronger than most of the other questionable Square characters in the XStats. Besides, by who you thought should be in, that leaves only like 8 if it went how you thought it should, and we all know Square's getting more than that.

New Nintendos: 1 And let's be honest, not only is he an unlikely one but he's a board thing. Pikachu has a realistic chance of being stronger despite what fanboy logic dictates.

Ness has been in two years, and while I doubt the EB fanbase will fail to score a third for him he really should see the bench

Wait, WHAT?! I think we're fine on Nintendos, thank you and you want to replace Ness with Pikachu? Forget my solidfied bias against Pokemon, Pikachu lost to Fox, who's actually stronger than Ness by the SC2K3 XStats.

55 Ness 15.44%
56 CATS 13.52%
57 Ratchet 12.85%
58 Ryo Hazuki 12.62%
59 Raiden 12.29%
60 Pikachu 10.99%

See that? CATS is stronger than Pikachu. XD Ness is stronger than CATS. I don't know if Ness was adjusted due to SFF vs Bowser, or if that's the adjusted stats there, but that's a whole lot of cons for Pikachu. If SOMEONE has to replace Ness, then pick Fox, or leave Ness there. But Pikachu comes second, if ever, and hopefully never.

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Sign my PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (187 Signs!)

If SOMEONE has to replace Ness, then pick Fox, or leave Ness there. But Pikachu comes second, if ever, and hopefully never.

Far be it from me to put words in Chichiri's mouth, but I believe he was implying that Pikachu would be stronger than Mewtwo and that Ness should be removed, but as separate points. I don't think he was saying that Pikachu should replace Ness.
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It's gender-confused fun in Godlike, as Altima duels Kuja at www.rpgdl.com!

And even there, Ness was SFFed big time in 2003. He's about as strong as Scorpion.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

Mewtwo? X_x

How did he get into this formula? You think Mewtwo will get in over Pikachu how? Because you think Mewtwo is more badass? That's why Jak beat Ness...but, oh wait, that didn't happen.

Again, another warped theory I must be edcuated on..how is Mewtwo supposed to be stronger than Pikachu in these contests?
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Whoa, Ness and Jak are from the same game? Never noticed...
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Whoa, Ness and Jak are from the same game? Never noticed...

Well damn, thank you for flopping my point! :-(

I meant Jak was said to be more badass than Ness during all the discussion last year, and therefore, people thought Jak would win. I heard things like "Ness is just some bat boy how can he beat Jak hahahahaha Jak will win and when he does I will point and laff at you!!!!111!"
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PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (187 Signs!)

Easy. Pikachu is hated by everyone who hates Pokemon, and most who like Pokemon. MewTwo is LOVED by everyone who like Pokemon and liked by a LOT of people who otherwise hate Pokemon.
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"Heil Dweebenheimer!"
MasterMage119

Remember the Pokémon Yay or Nay? Pikachu is hated so bad, RAICHU got buttloads of nays for evolving from the little *****.

And had 2003 been Ness' real strength, Jak would've taken that match with absolute ease. It's the same thing as Sora/Hayabusa, really.
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SC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Magus, Samus, Link, Sonic, Frog, Knuckles, Bowser, Kerrigan, Yoshi