He would do better, sure. But Raiden being above M. Bison, Yuna, Tails? I don't think he would do nearly that well.
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Yoblazer > Kerrigan > Sp2005 > My sad, sad little 68 point bracket.

Why not? Ocelot would do it according to the stats. I know most refuse to believe it, but Raiden has quite a few reasons to have advantages over Ocelot when it comes to contest strength. The only reason he wouldn't is because he's got the "Raiden hate factor", which I think is not only a bit over-exaggerated, but has also gone down as of late from what I notice.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=21155016

We'd be talking about an 86 percent boost for Raiden from what his SFF'd value was. The fact that there was SFF is obvious, but that much of it? It wouldn't be impossible, but it would be surprising as all hell.
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Yoblazer > Kerrigan > Sp2005 > My sad, sad little 68 point bracket.

Not really. SFF is devastating. Ask Magus, ask Bowser, ask GANONDORF.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=21155016

Ask Ness.

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Wow. Yoblazer so thoroughly raped me in the guru contest, I'm gonna feel it for exactly two weeks.

Gannondorf is definitely the best example of how unbelievably devastating SFF can be. He's arguably in the top 10 characters that appeared in 2k4, and at least in the top 15, yet he got SFF'd so badly that the non-SFF adjusted standings have him at #54, one spot below CATS.

I don't think Raiden is very strong personally, but it isn't too farfetched for him to be that good.
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Please sign this petition for a history board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=20119594

Not really. SFF is devastating. Ask Magus, ask Bowser, ask GANONDORF.

Percentage wise, the Raiden SFF you are proposing would make all of those SFFs apart from Ganondorfs look pathetic. And Ganondorf is solely a product of being Link's enemy - unlike Yoshi, Boswer, or Magus, he doesn't have any real merits on his own. The only way that I would believe Raiden would ever get SFF'd as bad as you say is if he were a largely bleh character with nothing going for him at all apart from being in the same series as Snake.

I can't see a playable character getting SFF'd that badly by Solid Snake of all people.
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Yoblazer > Kerrigan > Sp2005 > My sad, sad little 68 point bracket.

Was bored and made a picture of Sephiroth. Check it out:

http://users.triconet.org/rskovan/sephiroth.jpg
http://users.triconet.org/rskovan/sephiroth_matchsize.jpg

Let me know what you think. The original picture was fairly small, so there are some quality issues.

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Lunatic Under Narcotic Influence
I got pwned by Yoblazer in the Guru Contest

he doesn't have any real merits on his own.

...Except being better than Link in SSBM, of course.
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SpC2k5 FINAL SCORE: 72/80
*is Janus5000*

"...Except being better than Link in SSBM, of course."

You take that back, lets not say things we can't take back now
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http://users.ign.com/collection/Dark115.
Currently Playing: Halo 2 (Xbox), Pokemon Emerald (GBA), Ridge Racer (PSP)

Sephiroth looks kind of like Alucard in those pictures.
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The yoblazer: He is so much better at the Guru Contest than you.
ZSB [aX]

he doesn't have any real merits on his own.

Beg your pardon?

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Yoblazer: I'm about three things: kicking ass; taking names; and winning GameFAQs contests.

Here are some more comments on RPGuy's bracket.

Mushroom Way Madness
1 Mario (1)
16 CATS

After this contest, CATS deserves better than a 16 seed and a first round date with Mario. I demand CATS/Gordon!

2 Mega Man (2)
15 King of All Cosmos (NA)

I like Mario/MM as a division final.

Light Speed
1 Sonic (1)
16 Chun-Li (NA)


This is a definite waste of Chun-Li. She deserves a match that she has at least a shot of winning, since there's a fair amount of disagreement as to where she stands. The rest of this division is just insane. I know why you did it that way, but I just don't like seeing matches like Zero-Magus and Squall-Ryu as round 1 matches. A few of them is fine, but a whole division is crazy. Vincent vs Snake in the first round is also crazy, but I kind of like that one. =)

By the way, I do love Ganondorf vs. Auron as a first round match, just because they're both popular characters that I think are totally lame. If that was an 8/9 match with the winner facing Samus, I'd be happy.

Zealous Entropy
3 Sora (6)
14 Naked Snake (NA)
6 Alucard (6)
11 Tifa Lockheart (NA)
7 Vivi (7)
10 Zelda (10)
2 Dante (4)
15 Vyse (11)

In my opinion, switching Tifa with Vivi would make this one a lot more interesting. You go from two easy calls to two closer matches. I do like Tifa/Zelda, which you currently have set up for the 3rd round, but which would happen in the first round with that switch. It's a nice twist on the Aerith/Zelda that everyone else has in their brackets. I'm sure Chichiri would call it contrived, but I disagree with him most of the places where he says that.
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SpC2K5 First Vote Champion
Congrats to yoblazer, the Guru contest winner!

Predictions

Mushroom Way Madness
1 Mario
8 Viewtiful Joe
4 Arbiter
12 Shadow the Hedgehog
14 Frog
6 Kirby
10 Raiden
2 Mega Man

Light Speed
1 Sonic
9 KOS-MOS
4 Bowser
12 Ryu
14 Aeris Gainsborough
11 Ganondorf
10 Magus
2 Solid Snake

Zebesian Midnight
1 Samus
8 Tails
13 Donkey Kong
12 Diablo
14 Serge
11 Ken Masters
7 Terra
2 Luigi

Zealous Entropy
1 Crono
9 Fox McCloud
13 Jill Valentine
5 Revolver Ocelot
3 Sora
11 Tifa Lockheart
10 Zelda
2 Dante

Round 2
Mario
Shadow (avoid this rematch if possible)
Frog
Mega Man

Sonic
Bowser
Aeris
Magus (also avoid the potential Magus/Ganon rematch if possible)

Samus
DK
Serge
Terra

Crono
Revolver
Tifa
Zelda

Round 3
Mario
Mega Man
Sonic
Magus
Samus
Serge (Serge in the elite eight??)
Crono
Zelda

Round 4
Mario
Sonic
Samus
Crono

Mario
Samus

Samus
---
SpC2K5 First Vote Champion
Congrats to yoblazer, the Guru contest winner!

38 Diablo
91 Ultros
27 Claire Redfield
102 Tina Armstrong

Is it just me, or does anybody else think Diablo/Claire could deserve some hype?

50 M. Bison
79 Protoman

I have Chun-Li/Protoman in a bracket I made afew months ago as an 8/9-seed match, so this is very similar to it. I am pleased.

I think you could make a compelling argument for the following upsets:
Lavos over Viewtiful Joe
Vyse over Ridley
Vergil over Bomberman
Pac-Man over HK-47
Lara over Kain

I'd take Ridley and Bomberman, but I agree with the other three...although all should be close.

He told Ulti that no one would be retired, but that was at the end of the Summer Contest LAST year.

Should memory serve me right, CJay said "not exactly" about retiring Link and Cloud, though he did have something in mind...

Not only that, but he didn't even say that no one would be retired. He just said that he had something in mind and that retiring Link and Cloud was "not exactly" it. So retirements are still quite possible.

...glad I'm not the only one who remembered that.

8 Viewtiful Joe (6)

He was a 5-seed.

Lackluster? Perhaps to those who closely track stats and expected Sephiroth to double everybody. However to those who don't, Sephiroth put on a star performance decimating everybody in his path.

Just to note, Sephiroth was even more dominate than Link in 2k2.

Only Ness and Akuma, are out of the running in winning that side of the division.
After seeing what Bison did, you're crazy to think Akuma is out of the running.

Agreed, although it IS taking a chance to believe Ryu > Akuma > the rest of SF...it's a chance I'd take, but still a risky chance.

7 Gordon Freeman (7)
10 Raiden (16)
Do all brackets really have to test GFNW? I'd be much more interested to see CATS take his place, as long as you are going to have a fodder v. fodder matchup here.

...Raiden wouldn't be fodder. Gordon will have HL2 on his side. While neither are Noble Niners, I think both could now hold their own (especially if Raiden can avoid facing Solid Snake).

Wario doesn't deserve to return, and it's an easy KOS-MOS victory.

1) Does too!!! </kid>
2) It wouldn't be an easy win for KOS-MOS, though I'd still take her.

He would do better, sure. But Raiden being above M. Bison, Yuna, Tails? I don't think he would do nearly that well.

I'd take him to be around Donkey Kong's level, personally....MAYBE on the level of the characters you just named.

http://users.triconet.org/rskovan/sephiroth.jpg

FF7 meets MGS. I really dig that pic.
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

Beg your pardon?

Ganondorf, apart from a bit in WW, is a thoroughly undeveloped villian. The only thing he has going for him, in all honesty, is that he is Link's villian. This isnt to say that Ganondorf is a bad villian - what we have seen of him isn't too shabby at all. However, Ganondorf lives and breathes in these contests solely because of his association with elf-boy.
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Yoblazer > Kerrigan > Sp2005 > My sad, sad little 68 point bracket.

Ganondorf, apart from a bit in WW, is a thoroughly undeveloped villian.

Ganon isn't an underdeveloped villain at all. Nearly everything one would look for in a good villain can be found in Ganondorf. He's calculating, sinister, has depth and a background, and is simply evil. I still have no idea why people say Ganon is so bad when he's brilliant in both Ocarina of Time and The Wind Waker. From the moment you start the game, you're made aware of what Ganon is doing. Hell, you see the beginning of his power once you meet the Great Deku Tree.

However, Ganondorf lives and breathes in these contests solely because of his association with elf-boy.

I wouldn't say its his association with Link so much as it is him being the villain in the Zelda series. Princess Zelda put up a very nice performance in 2003 too, and she hasn't exactly been what one would call a great character.

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Yoblazer: I'm about three things: kicking ass; taking names; and winning GameFAQs contests.

I wouldn't say its his association with Link so much as it is him being the villain in the Zelda series.

Tomayto, Tomahto.
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Yoblazer > Kerrigan > Sp2005 > My sad, sad little 68 point bracket.

While I'm thinkin' of it, I'll make a public apology to Master Mage; although we were both crazy enough to take Master Hand over Kuja, I still called you crazy for taking Revolver over Bowser with the logic that Revolver > Liquid (and that you needed an upset pick too, but that's beside the point). If this contest is accurate in the stats, Revolver does indeed turn out to be stronger than Liquid, largely due to Liquid bombing unexpectedly hard (whether that's his true strength or not, that's yet to be seen).

I stand by Liquid > Revolver head to head, but in this contest, while you got Bowser/Revolver badly wrong, I'll give ya props for the Revolver > Liquid part as far as the stats go...I still think it was some of that Ryu > Sonic mentality of yours that made you say it though. =P
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

Tomayto, Tomahto.

;)

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Yoblazer: I'm about three things: kicking ass; taking names; and winning GameFAQs contests.

I stand by Liquid > Revolver head to head, but in this contest, while you got Bowser/Revolver badly wrong, I'll give ya props for the Revolver > Liquid part as far as the stats go...I still think it was some of that Ryu > Sonic mentality of yours that made you say it though. =P

There was plenty of reason for Revolver to be stronger than Liquid, and I even said so myself. Liquid's got the last name going for him, sure, but Ocelot's more prominent in the series overall.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

There was plenty of reason for Revolver to be stronger than Liquid, and I even said so myself. Liquid's got the last name going for him, sure, but Ocelot's more prominent in the series overall.

Revovlver > Frog?

Bull..****.
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PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (167 Signs!)

I think Liquid made it clear that he isn't anywhere near as high as that adjusted level suggested.

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If you ever meet my brother, let him know… The thousands of years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the Earth is my anger.

No amount of adjustment can bring Liquid back up to Frog's level without getting overly ridiculous with it.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

And honestly, you can't say that a potential Solid Snake vs. Liquid Snake isn't appealing to Metal Gear fans and could have put him at a higher level than he should have been at. The same could be said about Ryu and Ken in 2002.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

I don't really have any reason for this yet, but I happen to believe that Liquid was the one who had the overperformance or whatever last year and that his drop shouldn't affect Frog or Master Chief. I suppose one could potentially attribute it to the Solid/Liquid matchup you're talking about. I mean, I don't care for it, but I'm sure Metal Gear fans could get a kick out of it, BUT...


...There was a potential Ganon/Link match setup in 2003 and Ganon has done a solid job of proving that his ranking should be at or around his 2003 value.

---
If you ever meet my brother, let him know… The thousands of years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the Earth is my anger.

Well, Ganondorf had Link to look forward to in 2003 and 2004, and we can't quite make sense out of this villains contest yet to say anything certain.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Ganon performed around what he should have against Alucard in 2004, too. There's certainly no reason to believe that he has fallen far below his 2003 ranking. I'm not even counting the Sephiroth match to show that he was impressive throughout his entire run.

There's certainly no way that the whole "Ganon around Dante" thing should even be brought up anymore. His ranking may not be perfect, but he's going to be around that level.

---
If you ever meet my brother, let him know… The thousands of years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the Earth is my anger.

I don't but Ocelot being stronger than Liquid at all. The Meta Gear Solid series is a series with a ton of what we would call "casual" gamers; these guys don't care about story nearly as much about the gameplay.

~*ST*~
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*PWNED BY YOBLAZER in the Guru Contest*
Congrats, and hopefully you win the whole thing.

I don't really have any reason for this yet, but I happen to believe that Liquid was the one who had the overperformance or whatever last year and that his drop shouldn't affect Frog or Master Chief.

I've thought about that, and it's possible since Liquid did indeed do better against Frog in the final hours of the poll than Solid did.

Think about that.
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

By the way, since we're technically in offseason mode, I'm back to posting the new topic at 400 posts. If I'm not around when the topic hits 450, I asked Leon awhile ago if he could back me up. If it's obvious neither of us are around at the end of a topic (which will likely be nearly impossible), then screw it, I don't care who makes the damned thing. Just get it up.

~*ST*~
---
*PWNED BY YOBLAZER in the Guru Contest*
Congrats, and hopefully you win the whole thing.

Ganon performed around what he should have against Alucard in 2004, too

He was 3% lower than what he should have been. Sure, we say Ganon did what he was supposed to NOW, but then, he was off.

Basing Ganondorf's number against 2003 Alucard, he would be expected to get 51.85% against Bowser. Strangely enough, going by their relationship through Sephiroth, Ganondorf gets 51.65% on Bowser. Very, very close.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

I think it's safe to say that Frog is worth at least 26.15%...Master Chief was at that level in SC2K3. Measuring Master Chief from a static Crash Bandicoot [2K3] estimates MC to receive 29.82% against Link. So, I think we mainly have Liquid Snake to blame for looking ludicrously weaker than before.

Perhaps Liquid Snake overperformed against Frog just like Sam Fisher did so against Magus? Just a thought.

Liquid could've underperformed against Sephiroth, but I doubt it's much more than an Alucard/Sephiroth amount.

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Yoblazer beat me in the Guru Challenge! Good job!

I haven't played MGS3 yet, so I don't expect my opinion to be completely correct (so keep in mind I've only played MGS1 and MGS2)...but Revolver seems more like a mix between Wesker and Ridley than anything else. He's doing many of the behind-the-scenes actions like Wesker, but in what are arguably the two MGS games that are more popular than MGS3, you only fight him once like Ridley (in some Metroid games; I can't say that as fact for all of them, I think).

In MGS3, I have neither played the game nor read the spoilers (and please don't share; I do plan to play the game sometime soon, even if I've been saying that for months now, heh)...but I don't think MGS3 has gotten the same praise as MGS1 or MGS2, and Revolver strikes me as more of a board favorite than anything else; Ryu Hayabusa comes to mind.

I don't think Liquid would (r?)SFF Revolver too bad, but I think Liquid would still bring it home.
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

I don't but Ocelot being stronger than Liquid at all. The Meta Gear Solid series is a series with a ton of what we would call "casual" gamers; these guys don't care about story nearly as much about the gameplay.

Well, Ocelot beats Liquid 56/44 by these stats. That's a sizable margin to have to make up.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

He was 3% lower than what he should have been. Sure, we say Ganon did what he was supposed to NOW, but then, he was off.

And it was brought up many times that, that particular performance dealt with Alucard being underrated in the 2003 stats because of Sephiroth. In which case, Ganon's performance fits rather nicely, if I remember correctly.

---
If you ever meet my brother, let him know… The thousands of years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the Earth is my anger.

but Revolver seems more like a mix between Wesker and Ridley than anything else. He's doing many of the behind-the-scenes actions like Wesker

How is Ocelot like Ridley? If you've played the Metal Gear Solid series for any sustained amount of time, you KNOW who he is. He does the bulk of his work behind the scenes, but he's still getting in your way all the time. Plus, all of those fancy gun tricks are like, "Whoa, that's uber!" to casuals.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

And it was brought up many times that, that particular performance dealt with Alucard being underrated in the 2003 stats because of Sephiroth. In which case, Ganon's performance fits rather nicely, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, and it almost perfectly explains the results of Kirby/Squall and Bomberman/Squall, too.
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Yoblazer beat me in the Guru Challenge! Good job!

And it was brought up many times that, that particular performance dealt with Alucard being underrated in the 2003 stats because of Sephiroth

Yeah, we still really can't prove that, can we? Fixing that "underperformance" fits a lot of what happened in 2004. Choosing not to fix it coincidentally maintains the same gap between Bowser and Ganondorf that this contest gave us.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Yeah, and it almost perfectly explains the results of Kirby/Squall and Bomberman/Squall, too.

It doesn't explain Bomberman too well since Squall did just about as well as Alucard did against him. It explains Kirby pretty well though.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

I know...you kinda have to assume Kirby stayed constant and Bomberman made up some of the ground he lost in SC2K3.

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Yoblazer beat me in the Guru Challenge! Good job!

Unless Sephiroth has fallen down to the level of Mario (not that I would put it past him), I think we're better off concluding that Bowser rose, not that Ganondorf fell.
---

*MGS1 spoilers*


I haven't played MGS1 in years, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe Revolver was a sudden fight without much lead-up, much like Ridley was. Then Revolver dies/passes out/whatever he does after giving you whatever he gave (a disc, I think?), and you don't see much of him again (I think you see him in the torture room once more, and that's it).

Much like Ridley, you fight him once and you hardly see him again...in MGS1. I know Revolver's much more involved in MGS2, and I'm sure even moreso in MGS3.
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

Choosing not to fix it coincidentally maintains the same gap between Bowser and Ganondorf that this contest gave us.

Is is not possible to believe that Bowser saw an increase from the previous year(s)? I do believe you've even brought up PM: TYD. It seems more likely to be that Ganon has stayed at his 2003 ranking, Alucard was underrated in the 2003 stats (fixing Bomberman and Kirby), and that Bowser increased from his previous value - he did have a reason to after all. But if you stick with that same gap between Ganon and Bowser, he drops from 32.38% to 30% in the 2004 adjusted stats.

---
If you ever meet my brother, let him know… The thousands of years of raindrops summoned by my song are my tears. The thunder that strikes the Earth is my anger.

Then Revolver dies/passes out/whatever he does after giving you whatever he gave (a disc, I think?), and you don't see much of him again (I think you see him in the torture room once more, and that's it).

*SPOILERS*


He gets his arm cut off by the ninja. That's why we have Oceliquid, remember? You don't see him again until the torture room (which is a pretty memorable part of the game, if only for the difficulty of trying to survive).

Ocelot is constantly involved in the MGS3 storyline, too, and you do fight him.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Wesker is a good analogy, actually. Being a main manipulator doesn't mean votes.

~*ST*~
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*PWNED BY YOBLAZER in the Guru Contest*
Congrats, and hopefully you win the whole thing.

Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I just thought it was weird seeing that same proportion between the two if you don't "fix" Alucard.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving

Choosing not to fix it coincidentally maintains the same gap between Bowser and Ganondorf that this contest gave us.

Not only that, but the proportion between Ganondorf and Kefka this contest is that same as the Alucard-adjusted Ganondorf and the non-20XX adjusted Kefka.

Of course, it's unlikely Ganondorf would be at only 32% against 2K3 Link at this point, so I don't that would mean anything now. Ugh, and Liquid Snake would be ranked even WORSE if that was the case. :P

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Yoblazer beat me in the Guru Challenge! Good job!

I remember Oceliquid, heh, but I couldn't remember what happened to his arm in the first place. Aight then...but I still stand by my Wesker and Ridley comparisons; I just don't plan to make it seem like there's an uber-strong connection that cannot be denied with Ridley, and I can't argue any more for the Wesker comparison than the little I've said, since I haven't seriously played any of the RE games; somebody else would have to argue that for me (which sounds bad on my part, heh).
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Roses are red, violets are blue, Yoblazer has owned each and every guru.
Enjoy your prizes, bro.

Well, Ocelot is still pretty prominent in the entire series, while Ridley and Wesker are not. You could play a Metroid or RE game without meeting either one of them. It's hard to play Metal Gear Solid without knowing who Ocelot is.
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SC2K5 Nominations: Squall, Tidus, Terra, Serge, Zidane, Revolver Ocelot, Tifa Lockheart, Kerrigan, Leon Kennedy, Lloyd Irving