A Sephiroth match will cloud more than it clears up. WDF and 2k4 Alucard/Kirby/Bomberman overperformance are blamed on him, and some are blaming him for overperformance on 2k3 Cloud.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

That is of course if you assume Wesker has an inkling of strength.

And it's pretty obvious he doesn't. Right now, based on adjusted 2004 Kefka, Nemesis beats him with nearly 65%.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

A Sephiroth match will cloud more than it clears up.

Considering Sephiroth could clear up an entire division that was in question last year, I wouldn't say that.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

No its more an assumption due to Luca Blight's drop in the stats.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

"and some are blaming him for overperformance on 2k3 Cloud."

Actually, if that match is proven to be incorrect bascially everything else blamed on Sephiroth becomes correct.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

That is of course if you assume Wesker has an inkling of strength.

Wesker is a weak bastard, there's no doubt about that. But you take what Wesker did on Luca and then what Kefka did on Wesker and he's higher than the 21.21% value. Based on upon the adjusted stats, Wesker beating Luca 60/40 puts him at ~15.3% against Link in 2004. Now, if you take Kefka's value of 21.21% against Wesker's 15.3%, it turns out that Kefka would have to only have gotten ~63%, when he clearly got 70%. So, you go further with that and look for a number that fits around 70% and that numbers is ~25.5%, which is around Dante.

---
“You see, at this point… I’m pretty much the Queen ***** of the Universe. And not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.”

Considering Sephiroth could clear up an entire division that was in question last year, I wouldn't say that.

Do we even know Seph's true value yet? He fell like 4% between 2003 and 2004 according to his matches with Cloud.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

Let me get this straight. Do you accept the adjustments made that Link is stronger in 2k4 than he was in 2k3? Or do you think he stayed constant? Or something else? I need some way of comparing between years.

I'd say they'd have done a little better than "barely beaten", though, since as I've stated twice now all those stats are based on 2k4 Link which means they still outrank Aeris safely.

That, to me, implies that you think our adjustments are correct, and that 2k4 Link > 2k3 Link. If that is the case, when you say Mega Man would have gotten 32.92% on 2k3 Link and 32.49% on 2k4 Link and say that these adjustments work because they turn out equal, you're comparing on different Links and thus they aren't equal.

On the other hand, if you think 2k3 Link = 2k4 Link, then Aeris is at 32.81% on Link and Mario is at 32.56% on Link. Aeris > Mario.

So how are you comparing across years? Are you holding Mario/Cloud constant like cn and I or are you holding Link constant?
---
I like traffic lights!

No its more an assumption due to Luca Blight's drop in the stats.

What assumption? Kefka's 2004 number has nothing to do with Luca Blight. Heck, even if you assume Luca's 2004 number to be correct and Kefka skyrockets way up in the rankings, Wesker still doesn't beat Nemesis.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

You guys play with the stats waaay too much.

---
"Lucid Faia" Score: 31, Rank: T2, Pick: Bowser
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

Thats another thing. If Magus drops the same as Tidus then Luca would have a tough time beating Guybrush, and somehow Wesker barely beating Ryo doesnt sit right with me.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Do we even know Seph's true value yet? He fell like 4% between 2003 and 2004 according to his matches with Cloud.

I would be more willing to say that his 2004 number is more correct. We can mess around with numbers tomorrow when the match occurs.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

You guys play with the stats waaay too much.

That is the point of this topic.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

The Koopa King hits 66%.

Bowser 66% 27955
Revolver Ocelot 34% 14399
TOTAL VOTES 42354

---
“You see, at this point… I’m pretty much the Queen ***** of the Universe. And not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.”

Oh, and Bowser just broke 66% for anyone who cares about the match at hand.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

I never said Wesker would. I just said that its not an assumption at all on Wesker's part since we have no stat proof on him. Luca drops by about 2.5 percentage points however.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

I'm definitely looking forward to tomorrow's match. I've been dying to see that one for a while now.

---
“You see, at this point… I’m pretty much the Queen ***** of the Universe. And not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.”

I would be more willing to say that his 2004 number is more correct. We can mess around with numbers tomorrow when the match occurs.

Which means that we likely won't get a clear consensus of Sephiroth if we have to mess with numbers for him. Meaning that he may not clear up 20XX entirely.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

If Kefka = 25.5%, then:

Knuckles = 29.97%
Solid Snake = 37.03%
Mega Man = 43.25%

And let's not forget about our dear friend Pac-Man... *shakes head* Kefka might be stronger than the 21.21, but not by that much.
---
ALL YOUR VOTES ARE BELONG TO CATS

Liquid would be expected to lose 64-36 according to 2k4. I say it be closer to 70-30.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

I'm definitely looking forward to tomorrow's match. I've been dying to see that one for a while now.

A faded pic of Liquid with Solid **** behind him or the 70-30 blowout?
---
BANG BANG BANG VIPER BEAM!

It's very fortunate that Sephiroth gets to face Liquid, then Bowser, and then Ganon right in a row. I wouldn't imagine there being a place for him to screw up this time.

---
“You see, at this point… I’m pretty much the Queen ***** of the Universe. And not all of your little soldiers or space ships will stand in my way again.”

The most interesting thing is going to be how Diablo, Kefka, Robotnik, and Ocelot rank compared to each other.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Which means that we likely won't get a clear consensus of Sephiroth if we have to mess with numbers for him. Meaning that he may not clear up 20XX entirely.

Actually, it'll be pretty easy to determine if we need to adjust for 20XX or not depending on how badly Sephiroth beats the crap out of Liquid. There's a sizable gap between adjusted Liquid and unadjusted Liquid.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I was under the impression that to find one character's % against another, you would do (50/(winning character's X-Stat %) * losing character's X-Stat %). But the description on the first post seems different, or more confusing to me.

Umm...<_< *confused*
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

We've got some pretty good vote totals today. We're on pace for over 80,000 right now.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Oh yeah, add M. Bison and Lavos to the list above.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

"Do we even know Seph's true value yet? He fell like 4% between 2003 and 2004 according to his matches with Cloud."

I hate 2k2 stats, but they pretty much say that Sephiroth's 2k4 value is correct. Since you've missed eveything I've said if you adjust 2k3 Seph to his 2k4 value then MM2k3=MM2k4 without adjustment and Alucard also predicted almost exactly what Ganon would score on Ansem a couple days ago. So yeah, if Ganon can't do any more htan barely avoid a doubling by Sephiroth we know where Seph stands, and has always stood minus some vengeful Link fanboys.

"Do you accept the adjustments made that Link is stronger in 2k4 than he was in 2k3? "

Yes, yes I do. It's quite sensible that at least in relation to, oh... the hwole friggin field, that Link is much further away in 2k4 than 2k3. Whether Link increased over everyone else decreased is up to you. Need reassurance? Ask creativename, he has certainly put more work into that line of thought than I ever will.

"I need some way of comparing between years."

According to cn 2k4 Link scores 53.62% on 2k3 Link, or in otherword hold Cloud as the contant from 2k3 to 2k4.

"That, to me, implies that you think our adjustments are correct, and that 2k4 Link > 2k3 Link."

Part 1, wrong, part 2 right. I think Link gained, I don't think the adjustments (Link/MM SFF, Holding Magus and Ganon constant) are correct.

"when you say Mega Man would have gotten 32.92% on 2k3 Link"

I've only said it like, what, 5 times? A nice easy half-dozen it is then. I have NEVER said anything about what I think the characters would score on 2k3 Link. Please, if we're going to argue about this can we at least get you on the same page? I will repeat this, once again, I have not listed any stats whatsoever in regards to 2k3 Link. None. Zero, zip, zilch. Nada. Nothing. Not a damn thing in regards to 2k3 Link. He doesn't exist in my stats.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

It's strange to see how high Lavos will be ranked if the 20XX adjustment is correct.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

"It's strange to see how high Lavos will be ranked if the 20XX adjustment is correct."

For humor's sake it's almost too bad that 20XX is wrong.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Wait, Chichiri, I don't think I caught it the first twenty million times. You said you're using 2004 Link!??!

But, 2K3 stats are like, the Bible!
---
"I don't care about your instrument! My god is communicating with me!"
- Ludwig van Beethoven

Wait, Chichiri, I don't think I caught it the first twenty million times. You said you're using 2004 Link!??!

But, 2K3 stats are like, the Bible!

Yup, we've always based everything on 2K3 Link. It would give most us a bit less of a headache if you did it that way instead. :P

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

*breaks down crying*

Yes, 2k4 Link.... 2k4 LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINK!!!!

hehe.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I did say "if." I'm still skeptical about it, Lavos's performance on Liquid being a primary reason.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

"It would give most us a bit less of a headache if you did it that way instead."

It'd give me one, though, and it wouldn't mesh with the current stats. Besides, if I told you MM2k3 should equal 35.3 and that'd be almost exactly the same as what he got in 2k4 then YOU would have to do all the math to find out the differnece between 2k3 link and 2k4 link and to see how closely it is. Really, if more people would take the time to listen to me when I say 2k4 LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINK it'd be real easy for them to look at my adjusted stats, see 32 someoddpercent then look at what % MM actually got on Link and go "oh, oh my god he's right! He adjusted MM based on a constant (2k4) Seph and it predicts almost exactly how well (poorly) MM did against Link!"
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I don't like a lot of things about your approach.

I don't like the fact that Crono and Mario jump 4.83% and 2.29% on Cloud, respectively. I don't like the fact that Crono is barely above Zero and Magus (assuming he's right) is above both Crono and Mario. I don't like the fact that Snake = Aeris and would barely beat Squall. I don't like the fact that Ryu would lose to Yoshi. I could go on.

That said, there are some nifty things that occur when you do it your way. I'll reserve my judgment until the end of the contest.
---
I like traffic lights!

Yoshi got SFF'ed both times in the contest.
---
"I don't care about your instrument! My god is communicating with me!"
- Ludwig van Beethoven

He lost to Bowser with 44%. There's not much room for SFF there, though I admit it is a possibility.
---
I like traffic lights!

So......I've been thinking Bison could be stronger then Ken.

Isn't it usually Hero>Villain>Sidekick?

Too bad it's Bison and not Akuma....
---
Volgin is one sexy beast....

I don't think that hierarchy matters in a fighting game. And besides, there are exceptions to every rule. Auron looks to be stronger than Tidus, and Vivi is possibly stronger than Zidane, for example.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

"I don't like the fact that Crono and Mario jump 4.83% and 2.29% on Cloud, respectively."

But it's in Crono's flavor to do such a thing.

"I don't like the fact that Crono is barely above Zero "

Oddities happen, either way I'm trusting the 2k4 unadjested stats on that more than 2k3 stats. If Link fanboys anti-voted Cloud in any serious manner half the 2k3 stats are wrong... so guess what I think about the 2k3 stats.

" Magus (assuming he's right) is above both Crono and Mario."

Magus isn't right. He isn't even close to right, that's one of the things I've been trying to prove this whole time.

"I don't like the fact that Snake = Aeris and would barely beat Squall."

Don't blame me, blame them. Snake and Squall are pure, raw 2k4 stats and if we hold Aeris as a constant then that's what happens thanks in no part to my adjustment of Seph (other than pointing out that MM is correct when unadjusted)

"I don't like the fact that Ryu would lose to Yoshi."

My stats never implied that he would, actually. I don't even know where you got this from, but it's clear that Ryu never would have lost to the adjusted Yoshi.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

So how about that them there Diablo pwning Kefka?
---
"The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children."- Ken Kutaragi

Oh yeah? Well, RIDLEY would beat Kefka! Booyah!
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

You were supposed to say, 'There is not a chance in hell that Diablo will beat Kefka.'

And I was supposed to thank you for making me feel better.

;_;
---
"The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children."- Ken Kutaragi

Oh yeah? Well, RIDLEY would beat Kefka! Booyah!

I doubt it.
---
Can't keep a good man down, baby!

The fanboy inside me does not doubt it, and knows it as fact.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

The fanboy inside yous is wrong then. Dirty fanboy!
---
"The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children."- Ken Kutaragi

Magus isn't right. He isn't even close to right, that's one of the things I've been trying to prove this whole time.

And the same holds true for Ganondorf, though Ganondorf may be closer to his position than Magus.
---
"I don't care about your instrument! My god is communicating with me!"
- Ludwig van Beethoven

I've been saying Ganon isn't right since before we could extrapolate him through CATS.
---
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

So not for all that long then? >_>
---
"The PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children."- Ken Kutaragi