Take what Heroic Mario said, switch "Kefka" with "Magus," and you have the gist of how I feel.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I dont hate Sephiroth, its just he isnt a villian. The fact they even try to make him the main villian in that game when Hojo is obviously the one that caused this all to happen is ridiculous. Like trying to make Seifer the main villian when he is just being used the entire game.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Just to piss a few people off: Kefka and Magus are the best characters ever.

Sad thing is, I'm not even doing it on purpose.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 24/28 - Matches: 19/22 - Rank: 00848/24748 - Today: Ganondorf - Tomorrow: Kuja

Are you one of those people who think Jenova was controlling Sephiroth? Because it was clearly the opposite.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Kefka and Magus are the best characters ever.

Haha. Nice joke, Slow.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Kefka isnt even the best character in his game.

That award goes to a certain theif who is an absolute pimp.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

No. Im one of those that thinks Hojo created all of this. He was the one who in his warped sense of meaning started all of this and never tried to stop it. Sephiroth was fine until he found out that he was basically a puppet of creation. I think the entire game is him trying to get rid of the strings.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

That award goes to a certain theif who is an absolute pimp.

This man speaks the truth.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

(FF7 Spoilers)



Hojo initially created Sephiroth, yes. But that doesn't mean he's the main villain behind the game. Sephiroth's misinterpretation of everything he read was what led him to go insane and "think" the planet was his to own and belonged to his so-called "mother."

Hojo was a villain, yes, but Sephiroth did everything you see in the game from North Crater. He's the mastermind behind everything that transpired in FF7. And I hate him for it. For as much as that one scene makes him out to be crazy, he was an brilliant in the head. Although one can ultimately put that in the hands of him taking advantage of the Jenova Cells floating around in Cloud and the others he controlled.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Heroic Mario... defending Sephiroth?

...I honestly can't think of anything to say.
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Sephiroth is good, if he wasn't good, sephiroth wouldn't have 8.000 fans around the world. ~Siimor11
ZSB [aX]

I just felt sorry for Sephiroth. He realized he was an experiment of man and alone in this world. He snapped as probably most people would. I dont know everyone would try to destroy the world, but its like a man who is mentally insane and commits a murder. I want the man punished, but I also feel sorry for him because its almost out of his control.

I think FF7 says a lot about trying to play God.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Not defending, merely saying that Sephiroth was the main villain and the one who controlled everything throughout FF7.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

I had no sympathy the moment he felt it was his obligation to destroy the world and attempt at becoming a god.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Sephiroth was the main villian because they made him be it. But thats one of things rooted into FFVII's story which just makes it fall short of being great.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Using Seph's 2k4 estimated % against Link 2k3 (using cn's numbers): Alucard = 25.21 vs. 2k3 Link, Ganon = 29.42 vs. 2k3 Link.

Hmmmmm. I think, yeah, I think I called something like that, I just used Seph's 2k4 number so they looked something like 23.51 and 27.43 vs. 2k4 Link.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Oh and, thanks for the following, RP.

Prelim XS for Ganondorf's 4 pack on 2k3 Link:
Through Ganondorf:
Ganondorf 34.72
Ansem 17.22
CATS 15.83
Giygas 10.29

Through CATS:
Ganondorf 29.30
Ansem 14.53
CATS 13.36
Giygas 8.69
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

So then, through both CATS and Alucard (when Sephiroth is adjusted to his 2k4 level in the 2k3 bracket) Ganon gets around 29 and one third percent agianst 2k3 Link. Sometimes I even amaze myself.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

You know, I've been thinking that Ganondorf dropped similarly to the way Tidus did, but the "Through Ganondorf" numbers really just look better.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

I don't think Ganon dropped at all, myself.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

this match is a total bore unlike yesterday tomorrow better be more exciting
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Kilroy:There fate will be in each other's hands as they decide whether to share or to shaft

Too bad it makes CATS significantly stronger than he has ever been before. Frankly, I find it hard to believe that adjusting 2k3 Seph to his 2k4 levels predicts both MM2k4 and Ganon2k5 almost perfectly and can still be a mere coincidence.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I'd be willing to wager that everyone who went against Link in 2003 overperformed due to Link getting the Wind Waker treatment.
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"Someday when this seal is broken, that is when I will exterminate your descendants." - Ganondorf

Well CATS had a much better picture and actually had some bracket support this year. It's possible that he went up significantly.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

Ganon and Tidus dropped proportionately while Shadow happened to drop equally due to Mario anti-votes...bull****. That's not gonna be the case here, though I wanna wait a lil' longer before I take much of a stance here.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I don't think it's right to blame this on Magus/Link... Aw hell, who am I kidding, Mugus had to have over performed on Link. Luca had no reason to fall in the stats but Kefka beat Wesker by more than he should have beaten Luca, Sam Fisher had no reason to drop from 2k3 to 2k4 but he "underperformed" on Samus when adjusted Sephiroth predicts Gordon Freeman's 2k4 % almost perfectly. Tidus isn't but a fraction of what the 2k3 stats say he is. Time to face facts, Magus overperformed on Link (Pic factor isn't my number 1 culprit, however).
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Actually, Harrich, you have to accept that coincidences happen regardless if you agree or disagree with what I'm telling you. Either it's a coincidence that all these characters are being predicted within .5% accuracy when you adjust 2k3 Seph to 2k4 levels or you have to accept that it's a coincidence that Shadow and Tidus was almost as expected despite both being overrated in the 2k3 stats. There's a huge coincidence on both sides, what makes you hold so tightly unto the smaller one?
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

And that .5% is for the ones mentioned so far, of course. Doing the whole bottom half of 2k3 over shows a lot of things that don't mesh up with 2k4, but most of those have fair reasoning behind them.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Oh, adn also so that you know, unless there is an error in my math Shadow's plunge is actually larger (by about 2% on 2k4 Link) than Tidus', so if you follow my math as I've done it they don't fall by the same ammount and it's mere coincidence that they ever looked like equals.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Coincidences DO happen, no question about that. However, I see little reason for Ganondorf outside of standard variation to have dropped in 2k4 strength-wise; he may wind up with lower stats due to that four-pack being fishy, but I believe his strength is the same both years. Link grew to be a beast in 2k4, and though Ganon isn't guaranteed even a speck of that boost, I can't help but think it prevented him from dropping if there was any danger of it. Shadow had Sonic Heroes released on multiple systems (and a demo sent with MK:DD!! if you pre-ordered it, now that I think about it), and it helped the rest of the Sonic characters proportionately; I never could imagine Shadow gettin' the benefit of these rumored Mario anti-votes to a noticable point, but to think it did so much that it completely negates the same boost other characters in his own game got and still drops him much further down, nu-uh. I'm still against it. Tidus...maybe. I don't wanna argue for or against whether he dropped or not, though I still believe he under-performed against Mega Man, thus bringing Shadow down with him.

I'm gonna be reviewin' all this and try to take a stance instead of just shooting things down soon, Imma just need a lil' time.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

"I never could imagine Shadow gettin' the benefit of these rumored Mario anti-votes to a noticable point"

It's not anti-votes, it's people voting for Shadow as if he were Sonic. Look at how close Shadow is to Sonic one year and how far apart they are the next (even after serious adjusting). Clearly people are so deseperate for a Sonic/Mario match that they would vote for a character they don't care much about as if he were the character they do like because he looks similar.

"I don't wanna argue for or against whether he dropped or not"

You can't argue it, even if you adjust MM to the level the 2k3 stats have him at he still dropped like a rock (by over 7% agaisnt 2k3 Link). And if you adjust by Tidus then MM wins...

"though I still believe he under-performed against Mega Man"

Why, is there some "Unrelated games in completely different genres that happened to be on the same systems in each generation because they were the highest selling consoles" SFF? Because I tell ya what, that looks like a bigger factor than the presumed Link-MM SFF if Tidus didn't drop (and/or was overrated previously). Or do you just suspect that the fanbase for whiny brats turned hero overlaps greatly with the "played this exact same game 50 times with 50 different names in the last two decades" fanbase?

"I'm gonna be reviewin' all this and try to take a stance instead of just shooting things down soon, Imma just need a lil' time."

By all means do. You'll see something is missing, for sure.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Why, is there some "Unrelated games in completely different genres that happened to be on the same systems in each generation because they were the highest selling consoles" SFF?

You said Magus overperformed on Link. There's very little there in the way of common ground in that situation, too.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

Why, is there some "Unrelated games in completely different genres that happened to be on the same systems in each generation because they were the highest selling consoles" SFF?

What "factor" and you throwing out there for Magus, then?

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Wow. Same thought... <.<

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Clearly people are so deseperate for a Sonic/Mario match that they would vote for a character they don't care much about as if he were the character they do like because he looks similar.

I dunno, SMW vs Sonic 2 doesen't make this a good point.
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BANG BANG BANG VIPER BEAM!

More people care about Sonic the character than his games.

Which makes no sense to me.
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O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

Windwaker pic, probably. It would explain why Link took a match he lost from begining to end into a rematch and won from begining to end. It would Explain why Ganon is doing what he's doing today, and part of why Tidus did what he did against MM. It'd explain why Sam Fisher did much worse against Samus than expected while Gordon Freeman landed where he should have. There may just be something to the sheer number of non-Nintendo characters that were in Link's division that look weaker in 2k4 than 2k3. Just an idea, nothing more.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

There was cleary some SFF in Sonic 2 VS Super Mario World. Both are excellent platformers and to many the best game for respective system. I would expect Sonic 2 to get at least 10% more on Lttp than what it got on SMW. Oh and there was a big SFF in Super Metroid VS Lttp too.
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Zelos: Don't hate me just because I'm beautiful.

Of course, after writing all that I have to giggle a little. I mean really, how long have you two been in this thread? I've said over and over again that my actual belief is that SvN matches gain more hype and tend to end up closer than they should, if they were rather close to begin with. That'd mean Magus got a little extra from Link, Ganon got a little extra from Magus, and Tidus got a little extra from Ganon. It's the biggest string of Nintendo vs Square matches we've ever seen and the bottom character dropped more than pretty much any other character we've ever seen (and more than any I can think of, for sure, excpet Shadow of course). Can't you guys rememer any of my rambling on?
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I've said that before too, and I was dismissed.
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O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

I can't believe people are still trying to blame Wind Waker Link for 2003.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Yeah, I put a lot of work into making sure I wouldn't be dismissed off hand, though. I mean, I did redo over half of the 2k3 XSt just to show that MM shouldn't have been adjusted and that Ganon and Tidus (if not Magus) are overrated.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Read carefully, AK. In my next post I basically implied that I think it's more of a joke than a serious possibility. It was subtle, but I am still giggling about it inside.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Also note: Link had his LoZ sprite against Magus, not his Wind Waker picture.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Also note: Still was joking about the whole thing from the beginning.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Third note: Still don't buy that Square vs. Nintendo over/underperformance idea either.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

There was cleary some SFF in Sonic 2 VS Super Mario World.

I'd appreciate it if people would stop trying to inject every possible match with some kind of SFF. Nintendo and Sega were practically at war with each other when these games came out. These games have the OPPOSITE fanbase. Relearn what SFF means. =\

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 28, Rank: 10 (T1), Pick: Ganondorf
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

I'd appreciate it if people would stop trying to inject every possible match with some kind of SFF. Nintendo and Sega were practically at war with each other when these games came out. These games have the OPPOSITE fanbase. Relearn what SFF means. =\

This is what I said when I initially suggested SFF for that match--you wouldn't expect it due to fanbase rivalry; but, this might be a question of demographics. The demographics on who played those games clearly overlap a great deal.

Perhaps Sonic 2 is just weak, but when seeing the score, the initial first reaction of a large number of people was "SFF". That can't be dismissed, though we'll never know for sure.
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www.SC2K5.com

X-stats for Diablo's fourpack:

Diablo: 50.00%
M. Bison: 47.12%
Ridley: 42.35%
Albedo: 29.74%
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Spring Contest Score: 24/28
Today's Pick: Ganondorf

Some people are quick to jump to conclusions. If I were to make a guess, I'd say that Sonic 2 suffered from Mega Man syndrome, where no one can agree on which game they liked. Too often have I seen people bash Sonic 2 while simultaneously praising Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and vice versa. Personally, I like the original Sonic the best. There are also a great deal of people who think that the best is Sonic Adventure 2 Battle for the GCN.

Take it from me. Suggesting SFF between Mario and Sonic is ludicrous.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 28, Rank: 10 (T1), Pick: Ganondorf
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289