FF10, no question.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Let me repeat this for you, HM.

15 minutes total screen-time, throughout the entire series.

Name one character in these contests that can claim that and is still strong.

Maybe it's memorable to some of the fanatics, but I don't think it's nearly memorable enough to consider Ridley to be anything better than tough fodder.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

Well, my vote is for Bison, so I'm hoping that Diablo doesn't... what did you say... "take him to the wood"?

And for those of you who aren't HM, can any of you really tell me that you honestly think in terms of casual recognition that Ridley > MB makes a lot of sense? I mean really, you've seen Captain N, right? Who is the main villain? Yeah, MB.

Go go grey matter!
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I think a lot of these Diablo comparisons are getting out of hand. Saying he'd take down Luigi or Auron? I find it hard to believe.

Sora is more likely, of course.

Oh, anyone else think Diablo's a sure fire nomination for the Summer Contest? Its like this contest has brought him to light.
---
Teenage love was underground...
...tonight I break the surface.

Ridley has had multiple appearances throughout the Metroid titles, appearing in all but two, and is almost always the most talked about boss fight after the games are completed. Hell, he's even the final boss in the recent Metroid: Zero Mission. I certainly don't find it a stretch that Ridley would be strong. Having dialogue, personality, or anything like that is not required in having strength. And the Metroid franchise at GameFAQs isn't one that is completely unknowning or lacking in a fanbase. This is the one place where I would expect Metroid to be most popular.

...Most talked-about boss fight? In Prime, maybe. Even then, he's got competition from MP.

In SM, Mother Brain is by far the best and most well-known boss. Same with the original Metroid. Zero Mission as well. All that leaves is Fusion, where SA-X is easily the most talked-about enemy.

Having dialogue is important when you're rarely named within your own series. If people don't know your name, then they have to go on appearance, and Ridley looks very different from game to game.

Oh, and Ridley isn't the final boss of Zero Mission. A robot that vaguely resembles him is.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

You'd take 10 without question? Cause I wouldn't. The longer since its release the more it drops in popular opinion (casuals are always about the newest thing) while 8 doesn't suffer from that as much. Its fanbase, as I know it is very dedicated (...to yaoi <_<) and its place in the series isn't dropping off (just getting more crowded)
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Lavos, while his name was mentioned throughout the game, never got an overabundance of screentime himself either. Even Ganon rarely appears throughout the game until the very end where you fight him.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

That and... it's a freaking Brain. That alone is pretty memorable. Everyone who's played any of the games Mother Brain is in knows that... "that's Mother Brain". Casual Metroider sees it and is all like... "that's Dragon who breaks through walls".
---
He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

Name one character in these contests that can claim that and is still strong.

I haven't played very much played D2, but isn't this true of Diablo?
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SpC2k5: 22/24 Next up: Kefka, Ridley >_>, Ganondorf, Robotnik
*is Janus5000*

I'd only call Diablo a shoe-in for the Summer if he makes it out of the division and does very respectable against Ganon. I'm not certain he'd do the first, and I'm more skeptical about him doing the second than most of you are.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Lavos, while his name was mentioned throughout the game, never got an overabundance of screentime himself either. Even Ganon rarely appears throughout the game until the very end where you fight him.

Name mentioning = screentime. I'll give you Ganondorf, but he has more memorable scenes in what little he does have. Plus he has Super Smash Bros Melee, which can only help.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

I'm not so sure about Ridley >=< MB anymore, but I think MB would take the casual vote because of one major factor: as far as I'm aware of, Ridley looks noticably different in every game he's in. It doesn't help that his artwork doesn't favor his in-game looks much either.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

Lavos, while his name was mentioned throughout the game, never got an overabundance of screentime himself either. Even Ganon rarely appears throughout the game until the very end where you fight him.

There's a difference between those guys and Ridley.

Ridley is never talked about throughout his games, whereas Lavos and Ganon are. In fact, Ridley is never even mentioned, since the Metroid series as a whole has very little dialogue. He just shows up and you beat him. That is IT.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Well yeah, I guess I shouldn't have "given you Ganondorf". Because he is mentioned. Just less than Lavos because it's not an RPG. But significantly much so, I think.

The same thing applies to Diablo. It's very clear that he's your target from all the NPCs.
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He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

"Lavos, while his name was mentioned throughout the game, never got an overabundance of screentime himself either."

But he's mentioned repeatedly, Ridley's sorta "Oh no! Oh no! *bursts through wall* Oh yeah!"

"Even Ganon rarely appears throughout the game until the very end where you fight him."

But he's the final boss more often than not, and in the biggest Zelda game on this site you hear about him and see him multiple times before the final bout. Heck, you even get to fight a shadow version of him before the game grows stale.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

...Most talked-about boss fight? In Prime, maybe. Even then, he's got competition from MP.

Bull****. Ridley is, without a doubt, the most discussed boss fight from Metroid Prime, with no competition. Prime is brought for story purposes, but Meta-Ridley is up there at the top, with the Omega Pirate soon to follow behind Prime.

In SM, Mother Brain is by far the best and most well-known boss. Same with the original Metroid. Zero Mission as well. All that leaves is Fusion, where SA-X is easily the most talked-about enemy.

...What. The. ****. The only one you even got close to was Super Metroid due to the final portions of the boss fight. The original Metroid had a mixture of the three, Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain. I never really found one to be that far ahead of the other. Now, in Zero Mission, Ridley is without a doubt the most talked about boss fight. Not Mother Brain. Damn, how often are you around the people who have completed these games? Mother Brain wasn't even close to being the most talked about boss fight from ZM. Not by a freakin' long shot.

Oh, and Ridley isn't the final boss of Zero Mission. A robot that vaguely resembles him is.

Mecha-Ridley is the final boss and since these casuals are incapable of a lot of things, mistaking him for Ridley should not be a problem, should it?
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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Ridley's sorta "Oh no! Oh no! *bursts through wall* Oh yeah!"

Great timing for the Family Guy reference. 50 points.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I don't think you should all count out the possibility of Diablo being a relative powerhouse, and Ridley being around MB level until you at least see the first bit of this upcoming match.
---
Please sign this petition for a history board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=20119594

The Golem Twins are the most talked about boss in Chrono Trigger. I don't think they'll be making waves anytime soon.

</Joke>
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L I T T L E M O N E Y

Omega Pirate is a much more talked about boss fight, because of its difficulty.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Now, in Zero Mission, Ridley is without a doubt the most talked about boss fight. Not Mother Brain.

Are you off your rocker, HM?

Not only is the Ridley battle in ZM a blatant copy of Fusion's, but it lasts, like, 5 seconds. He is excruciatingly easy in ZM.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I just noticed Kefka has a lead of over 30,000. I wonder if we'll ever see him perform this well again.
---
Please sign this petition for a history board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=20119594

Ridley is never talked about throughout his games, whereas Lavos and Ganon are. In fact, Ridley is never even mentioned, since the Metroid series as a whole has very little dialogue. He just shows up and you beat him. That is IT.

Yet there's just enough reason to care about Ridley as there is about someone such as Lavos, who is looking to place above Kefka in these contests. People are not and never have been oblivious to who Ridley is. Master Hand is never mentioned throughout his game and only comes in as the final boss of the single player mode, yet he beat a villain from an RPG where his name is constantly mentioned and he's got plenty of screentime to boot.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Do you remember, an estimate, on where that put Ness? I seem to remember agreeing a lot with the placement of those three after Auron's SFF adjustment, whoever was the person to adjust it...

That'd be me, and I did it through Tails, because it looks better than through Scorpion. We all know where "it looks right" gets us, but, anyway:
On 2k3 Link
...
Zero 33.59
Auron 33.56
Solid Snake 33.05
...
Tails 23.85
Scorpion 23.59
Ness 23.46
Kefka 22.75
...
Viewtiful Joe 21.56
Jak 21.08
Duke Nukem 20.96
...

Through Scorpion 2k3, everyone ends up a bit higher.
---
I like traffic lights!

Are you off your rocker, HM?

Not only is the Ridley battle in ZM a blatant copy of Fusion's, but it lasts, like, 5 seconds. He is excruciatingly easy in ZM.

I would ask you the same thing after reading everything you've said these past few days.

Exaggeration or not, the only way that boss battle takes under a minute is if you sit under him and spam the missiles. It isn't as though everyone goes in with the knowledge that he'll only hit you a few times by standing under him. Most people, and I didn't do this, would fight him differently. As such, his boss battle is talked about a lot. The fight against Mother Brain has absolutely nothing cool or great about it, there's simply nothing to talk about.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

"People are not and never have been oblivious to who Ridley is. "

Way, way too bold of a statment. I played the original Metroid and couldn't have told you his name if I hadn't seen the Super Metroid strategy guide/walkthrough in an EGM (or somesuch magazine) years later.

"Master Hand is never mentioned throughout his game and only comes in as the final boss of the single player mode"

First time players of a SSB game can beat it in what, 10 minutes? How long do you think it takes to get to Ridley in any given Metroid game first time through? Oh, and playership for SSB would greatly outstrip Metroid games in general considering that the majority of the people on this site started gaming years after SM and the fact that SSB and Melee each individually outsold any recent Metroid game.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

Also there are a lot of dragon enemies so its easy to mistake Ridley or forget about him.

Master Hand is basically an Evil Glover and thats hard to forget.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Why can't people sit down, relax, and assume, for the moment, that Mother Brain ~ Ridley. Mother Brain gets more exposure, but fewer people will care about her, so it all evens out.

*grabs a bag of popcorn and stares at the topic*
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SpC2k4 - Triple Crown Winner! (Spread Betting, Betting, Oracle)
SC2k4 - 12th place!

As a smart-ass, I feel obligated to mention that Master Hand has his own bio explained when you get his trophy.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

Way, way too bold of a statment. I played the original Metroid and couldn't have told you his name if I hadn't seen the Super Metroid strategy guide/walkthrough in an EGM (or somesuch magazine) years later.

We are not in the damn 80's and 90's anymore either. Ridley's name as more than gotten around throughout the Metroid series establishment over the years. Hell, with the recently released Metroid Prime, a good majority of these "new school" people should be aware of who he is, especially if they went back to play previous Metroid titles after completion of Prime.

First time players of a SSB game can beat it in what, 10 minutes?

And how much do you actually see of him? Very, very little. Is there reason to care about him? Does he have dialogue? All of these answers are no. And who did he beat? That's right, a character from a Final Fantasy, Square RPG, who has an abundance of dialogue, screentime, and is a boss fight. Explain to me how that happens, because clearly Ridley is incapable of performing the same feats as Master Hand, despite having even more to do with the overall series than MH would.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Given the insane replay value: length ratio of Smash Bros. I think Master Hand's functionally got more screentime than Ridley. The rules don't really apply as much to fighters anyways. If you play Street Fighter 2 straight through as Ryu, Ryu's got about 30 minutes - an hour of screentime. Nothing that great. The replay value makes the game.

And any Smash Bros fan will recognize Master Hand, I don't really think the same thing could be said for Ridley.

And like it or not, Master Hand's got more charisma than Ridley. Raw charisma, baby.
---
He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

As a smart-ass, I feel obligated to mention that Master Hand has his own bio explained when you get his trophy.

Ridley had a trophy of his own, too.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Confidence in Diablo seems to be at its peak right now.

I do believe Diablo will win, but I am not that confident about it. I think people have jumped off the Bison bandwagon too quick. Bison is a force.

But the main reason I'm doubting Diablo is because it is difficult for me to see Ridley as being that strong (for reasons that have been gone over many times). I hope that he is fairly strong though. If not for the Ridley issue, I see Diablo as being very tough.

I think Diablo will win this, but it is not assured. Bison could very well win comfortably (with 55% or so).
---
www.SC2K5.com

Thanks, RPGuy. I also did like that placement for the characters, particularly Ness's.



And SSB has a lot of replay value through the multiplayer where you do not see Master Hand. That's the bulk of what keeps people coming back; not the single-player mode. StarCraft is still played today by many people, but it isn't because of its campaign.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

Yet there's just enough reason to care about Ridley as there is about someone such as Lavos, who is looking to place above Kefka in these contests. People are not and never have been oblivious to who Ridley is. Master Hand is never mentioned throughout his game and only comes in as the final boss of the single player mode, yet he beat a villain from an RPG where his name is constantly mentioned and he's got plenty of screentime to boot.

*sigh*

But once again, there's a difference between Lavos/Ganon and Ridley.

Ridley is not important in the Metroid games. BUT WAIT, I've already prepared a pre-emptive strike to your inevitable arguments about how he's the most important character in the series.

The original Metroid: He's one of the two Space Pirate leaders, but unless you read the overly long backstory in the instruction manual, you don't know that. In fact, you don't even know he exists until you come across an evil bouncing Barney clone who can be beaten simply by standing under him and shooting up. Not a particularly exciting battle.

Metroid II: Whoops, doesn't appear.

Super Metroid: This is the only game where he's even remotely significant. Sure, he steals the Metroid larva at the beginning, but you don't spend the game wondering, "Oh, man, I sure hope the Metroid larva is safe. That purple dragon guy is one dastardly villain. I can't wait until I engage in a climactic, emotional rematch with him that begins with a monologue of him explaining his backstory and motives for being evil. Man, he's the most sympathetic villain of all time."

Instead, you completely forget about him about 30 seconds after he flies away in the Ceres station. You later meet him at the bottom of Norfair and kill him. He just floats around the room and practically just waits for you to shoot him to death.

Metroid Fusion: He makes a cameo appearance at the end. He's completely unimportant.

Metroid Prime: He appears at the beginning as a plot device for Samus to land on Tallon IV. Just like Zebes in SM. Past that, it continues on just like SM: you forget about him, he's MIA for almost all of the game...and you meet him near the end in battle. It's also easily his best battle, but he's just not an important character within the game.

Zero Mission: His battle lasts just a few seconds, after which you wonder why he's so ****ing easy.

Metroid Prime 2: Whoops, doesn't appear.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

StarCraft did have a kickass campaign though. I think the majority of people who play online have played at least some of the singlep layer.
---
Please sign this petition for a history board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=20119594

Yes, obviously. StarCraft had a wonderful campaign with incredible characters - particularly from the Protoss. And I'm sure that people who play SSB/SSBM's multiplayer have at least ventured into the single-player mode a few times to face Master Hand. But it isn't as though he brings anything different to the table than Ridley, and appears even less.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

But he is Master Hand. I mean come on even if I didnt play SSB or Melee, I still vote for him.
---
"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

You said "...never have been oblivious to who Ridley is", don't get snippy because your statement was far, far too bold and I called you on it. The fact of the matter is that most people didn't know his name early on, and many people (myself included) probably haven't been interested in playing the more recent games (can't stand the 3d perspective being used for Metroid).

"And how much do you actually see of him?"

Well, there isn't much to see of him, is there?

"Is there reason to care about him?"

This has clearly been proven to be a moot point by characters other than Master Hand.

"Does he have dialogue?"

Let's see... minamlist dialogue has stopped Mario, Link, and Crono how much? Not at all you say? Then this shouldn't even be brought up as a point, especially since I never said Ridley's lack of dialogue affected him.

"despite having even more to do with the overall series than MH would."

Only if you analyze it as much as you have, HM. For the rest of us Ridley just isn't that important to the Metroid experience. Besides, as I said in my last post SSB/M is currently a much, much bigger name than Metroid. For that reason alone there is room for discrepancies in strength favoring MH.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

HM, you have to beat MH multiple times in the quest of unlocking characters. You have to do no sort of thing for Star Craft. I find it more likely to not know about Kerrigan than MH... and I infact find it almost impossible to think anyone has enjoyed the multiplayer aspect SSB/M without experiencing the single player some.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

That's true, but you can't tell me that most Smash Bros fans haven't beaten the single player mode tons of times.

Master Hand is more memorable. That's big. You don't forget him, you know his name. I didn't even know Ridley's name until after I had beaten Super Metroid.

In a poll among casual Metroid fans, I'd be surprised if 50% knew the name "Ridley" straight off. In a poll among casual Smash Bros fans, I'd be surprised if less than 95% knew the name "Master Hand" straight off. That and Smash Bros has a huge fanbase advantage over Metroid.

That's where his advantage lies.
---
He needs nominations, 61! Nominate Raiden (Metal Gear Solid 2) for SC2K5!

You said "...never have been oblivious to who Ridley is", don't get snippy because your statement was far, far too bold and I called you on it. The fact of the matter is that most people didn't know his name early on, and many people (myself included) probably haven't been interested in playing the more recent games (can't stand the 3d perspective being used for Metroid).

And I was speaking about right here and right now. Not back in the 80s/90s when the Metroid's were first coming out of the woodwork and gaining steam, which you clearly hinted at. People are not oblivious to Ridley and thinking such is absolutely ridiculous. After all these years, it's become rather apparent on who he is and what kind of role he plays in the game. Now, it isn't along the lines of Ganon, Bowser, or some random RPG villain, but it isn't as though his strength is going to be around these types of characters nor am I preaching that's where he should sit.

Metroid Prime is also the second highest selling Metroid game to date, I wouldn't say that many people are simply not playing it because of the 3D perspective. It's outsold every previous Metroid barring the original.

Well, there isn't much to see of him, is there?

Not at all. Much like I've heard about Ridley from the arguments in here.

This has clearly been proven to be a moot point by characters other than Master Hand.

Well, it takes care of anyone who thinks that Ridley needs personality, character, dialogue, etc. to be strong.

Let's see... minamlist dialogue has stopped Mario, Link, and Crono how much? Not at all you say? Then this shouldn't even be brought up as a point, especially since I never said Ridley's lack of dialogue affected him.

All of this was to bring up things that Ridley and Master Hand share in common, yet MH defeated someone who has every single bit of these things that people supposedly need for someone to have to beat someone else. Ridley does not need the entire game of screentime, his name constantly mentioned throughout the game, or being the final boss in every title. None of that will matter in determining his overall strength, as you've clearly made sure to remind me of here.

Besides, as I said in my last post SSB/M is currently a much, much bigger name than Metroid. For that reason alone there is room for discrepancies in strength favoring MH.

It sold more, yes. But if you include the multiple games Ridley has been in, from a sales perspective, with all the games Master Hand has been in, they do level out quite well. Since you brought up sales earlier.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

and I infact find it almost impossible to think anyone has enjoyed the multiplayer aspect SSB/M without experiencing the single player some.

And I find it very unlikely that the people who play StarCraft have not played the single player campaign at least once in their owning the game.

---
“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

It might also help that it takes nothing short of deductive logic to figure out Master Hand's name in the polls if you already know what he looks like...and even if you don't, heh. I acknowledge that this "deductive logic" could also be used in matches like Ryo/Guybrush simply due to the pattern of left character = top choice and right character = bottom choice, but you know what I mean.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

Master Hand is more memorable. That's big. You don't forget him, you know his name. I didn't even know Ridley's name until after I had beaten Super Metroid.

And I fail to see how you just conviently forget about Ridley after facing him in Metroid games. He's usually the single most memorable boss from the games, excluding one. It doesn't make sense for someone to claim he isn't.

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul

This is sort of unrelated to the current discussion, but I hope that diablo kills Bison, if anything just to piss off the fedor idiot as he loses his perfect.
---
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I like Ridley and all, but I wouldn't call him memorable.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

"And I was speaking about right here and right now."

And again, you shouldn't go around getting snappy with people beacause of your poor choice of words.

" I wouldn't say that many people are simply not playing it because of the 3D perspective."

I wouldn't either, I said I'm not playing it for that reason.

"None of that will matter in determining his overall strength, as you've clearly made sure to remind me of here."

No, all of it matters, it's just that lacking one or two of those things doesn't hinder the other aspects making a character strong. The more you have of all those vital things the better you will do. Kuja seems to be an exception more than anything else, and casualty of mispairing is still likely.

"But if you include the multiple games Ridley has been in"

Problem being that there will be a huge overlap in any sequel meaning that the overall fanbase for Metroid is still smaller than SSB
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

So far, Harrich, the only person in this topic who would is HM.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing over half of the brackets that Ridley could win. - Harrich

I wouldn't either, I said I'm not playing it for that reason.

I quote:

"and many people (myself included) probably haven't been interested in playing the more recent games (can't stand the 3d perspective being used for Metroid)."

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“But though we strike at you from the shadows, do not think that we lack the courage to stand in the light.”
- Zeratul