There is zero way that is true. I refuse to believe even if the stats said so and you put them all in a contest and Nemesis won. Nemesis is weak, Ocelot is weak, Wily is weak, Ultros is super fodder.
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Vote for Robotnik, he isnt a woman or a giant slug or a .... hand.

In a straight match, Nemesis vs. Wesker, I would still have Wesker taking it with at least 65%.
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Insomnia is like having immortality, except you're gonna die. ~PepsiPlunge

How much stronger could Link possibly get?

With a Zelda game looking the way it does and getting the hype that it is, it is very likely that Link will not lose a Summer Contest for a long, long time to come. It'll do more than just keep him from declining.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I wouldn't....

And it makes me sad.
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Vote for Robotnik, he isnt a woman or a giant slug or a .... hand.

In a straight match, Nemesis vs. Wesker, I would still have Wesker taking it with at least 65%.

Yeah, like people believed Magus could be weaker than Crono indirectly and still beat him directly, right?

Honestly, if Wesker could beat Nemesis head-to-head, wouldn't that mean he was more popular to begin with? He shouldn't need to rSFF him.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

IIRC many people had a Mario vs. Sonic final with Mario winning.

Heh. I had a Mario/Link final with Mario winning and then a Mario/Crono/Link/Mega Man Final Four. And to top it all off, I had Samus beating Sonic.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Yeah, like people believed Magus could be weaker than Crono indirectly and still beat him directly, right?

That's entirely different in my eyes.
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Insomnia is like having immortality, except you're gonna die. ~PepsiPlunge

WDF itself isn't what I would call "crap," but the reason behind is worthless garbage.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Nemesis would beat Wesker without too much trouble, if you ask me. I've always viewed him as the stronger of the two.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Underestimated FF7, eh?
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Vote for Robotnik, he isnt a woman or a giant slug or a .... hand.

That's entirely different in my eyes.

The point remains. Nemesis will still likely be quite a bit stronger, meaning you've got more people willing to vote for him than willing to vote for Wesker. If Wesker could beat him head-to-head, he'd be more popular indirectly as well.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Yeah in a Nemesis/Wesker match, the guy the RE fanboys would vote for would lose to another RE character. Something wrong with that.

But the question still remains why are we still talking about 2k2 while we have more accurate stats.
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Vote in the Spring Contest 2005 http://www.freewebs.com/springcontest2k5/

It all started because someone stated Crono increased every year and I said that was just because the 2K2 stats were wacky and Crono really didnt increase as much as Mario dropped between 2k3 and 2k4.

If Wesker could beat him head-to-head, he'd be more popular indirectly as well.

And I still say the SFF would be enough to put Wesker over the top by a good margain.
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Insomnia is like having immortality, except you're gonna die. ~PepsiPlunge

You mean to tell me that Wesker could get a 30%+ swing despite being weaker?
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Well:

1) Nemmy > Wesker. I was quite wrong, and it makes me sad.
2) Liquid was very, very unimpressive. I'm much more willing to believe it was Liquid's weakness, and by ricochet Frog and Master Chief, than it was Lavos' strength, which we'll find out for sure in the next round. I was considering that the whole division was overrated, but then...
3) Kefka is looking damned impressive. This doesn't sync with #2 at all. If Luca was constant, this puts Kefka on par with Kirby.
4) Sephiroth really hasn't looked very good thus far. Is Vergil really that much stronger than Sigma? Hell, he made Ghaleon look better than Sigma. He's really dropping the ball, if you ask me.
5) Who wins between Wesker and Albedo?
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I like traffic lights!

and Crono really didnt increase as much as Mario dropped between 2k3 and 2k4.

...Since when did Mario drop between 2003 and 2004? In the match during 2002, none of the cheated votes were removed from Crono. When you look at it that way, Crono did better and better each year before finally overcoming the hump and beating him in 2004. I wouldn't say that was because of Mario's decrease so much as it was Crono's increase.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

You mean to tell me that Wesker could get a 30%+ swing despite being weaker?


Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Switch Wesker and Nemesis' positions in the bracket and I think that Wesker would have performed just as well on Ocelot, and Nemesis would have performed just as bad against Kefka.
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Insomnia is like having immortality, except you're gonna die. ~PepsiPlunge

Crono might of increased, but due to the unsual circumstances surronding Mario's performance in 2002, Crono's LEAP in 2004 (which if Crono leaped, what the hell did Samus do?), there is reason to believe Mario is dropping.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

So Wily is about as weak as Luca then?
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Sure.
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Insomnia is like having immortality, except you're gonna die. ~PepsiPlunge

1) I know =(

2) Yeah I think LS was overestimated due to a couple of factors.

3) Who knows, Kefka just seems to keep getting stronger.

4) I stated I couldnt see Ghaleon > Sigma, and someone called me a basically a stuborn fanboy.

5) I'm scared of that answer.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Okay, this conversation about Wesker/Nemesis is making no sense. It's perfectly okay to let go of the idea that Wesker is stronger than Nemesis. The only reason you could think such now would be out of pure bias.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

RPGuy:
3) Kefka is looking damned impressive. This doesn't sync with #2 at all.

Yup...unless Lavos is really strong and gets the support of much of the Chrono Trigger fanbase. That makes Mother Brain very surprisingly strong; but maybe she is because of recognition, and/or the pic factor did play a role in Liquid vs. Lavos.

4) Sephiroth really hasn't looked very good thus far. Is Vergil really that much stronger than Sigma? Hell, he made Ghaleon look better than Sigma. He's really dropping the ball, if you ask me.

Sounds to me like you're reaching to find signs that Sephiroth is weak.
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www.SC2K5.com

Anyone who thinks Ghaleon would be Sigma is "c-r-a-z-y."

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I don't have any trouble with Ghaleon being more popular than Sigma. It's not like it's impossible for cult characters to beat mainstream ones.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

The stats say its so. I cant see it happening, but apparently I dont know what Im talking about.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

Sigma was a bomb and is fodder. I really wouldin't be surprised if Ghaleon was stronger.

I have a serious issue with Ghaleon beating Sigma and I prefer the former. I would not dare even think about putting him over Sigma.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

From: NewLib | Posted: 5/23/2005 4:43:38 PM | #370
Crono might of increased, but due to the unsual circumstances surronding Mario's performance in 2002, Crono's LEAP in 2004 (which if Crono leaped, what the hell did Samus do?), there is reason to believe Mario is dropping.

No, no there is not. Crono did just as expected against Link last year. The catch? Link increased by a lot. Crono merely followed suit. Mario's extremely consistent in his losses, which are the basis of the X-Sts - not so in his wins, however.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 22/24 - Matches: 18/20 - Rank: 00329/24748 - Today: Kefka - Tomorrow: Ridley

MegatokyoEd:
Sigma was a bomb and is fodder. I really wouldin't be surprised if Ghaleon was stronger.

Ditto.
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www.SC2K5.com

Sigma obviously has no serious backing despite being mainstream (like Wesker, I suppose). As I've said from the beginning, recognizability =/= likeability
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I still dont expect Crono to jump Kefka level here and enter Sephiroth level.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

This is definitely the contest of the 6-seeds there. Nemesis is stronger than Wesker contrary to what was previously thought, probably ditto for Mother Brain and Ridley, Bison whups some serious ass, and Sin... well... doesn't look half-bad for a Square villain.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 22/24 - Matches: 18/20 - Rank: 00329/24748 - Today: Kefka - Tomorrow: Ridley

But you see the reason Nemesis is stronger than Wesker should be the reason Ridley is stronger than MB. But Im afraid unless Diablo performs like a monster, that MB will be greater than Ridley.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

It isn't as though Ghaleon has some sort of large backing either. He's certainly a cult character and despite how poor Sigma performed in this contest, it would not make an ounce of sense to me to take Ghaleon over him. I couldn't even begin to think of an advantage that Ghaleon would have over him. The only thing that could even register as a possible advantage would be his "cult" following. But I cannot fathom how anyone would take Ghaleon over Sigma. That just makes me go crazy thinking about people who would do that.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

If Lavos is as strong as Liquid Snake would have us believe, then Mother Brain ~= Luigi/DK, and that's a leap of faith I'm not quite willing to take. That also makes Ridley absolutely pathetic in comparison to Mother Brain or it makes Diablo very scary.

It's not so much that I think Sephiroth is weak, just that he hasn't really done what he should have. Bowser came out and made Sigma look worse than CATS (what a bracket breaker that would have been), whereas Sephiroth makes Vergil look like Duke Nukem. Maybe that's their real strengths, but in a contest that was supposed to be about Sephiroth dominating Bowser has looked a lot better.

Not that there's much of chance Bowser could win, or do much more than avoid being doubled, but I almost feel like bringing the Samus/Sephiroth debate back up.
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I like traffic lights!

Or whether 2003 or 2004 is correct for Sephiroth?
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 22/24 - Matches: 18/20 - Rank: 00329/24748 - Today: Kefka - Tomorrow: Ridley

I'm expecting a big performance from Diablo tomorrow, myself. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he went over 60% against Bison...

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

It isn't as though Ghaleon has some sort of large backing either

He doesn't need one if nobody cares about Sigma.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

If Diablo goes 60 on Bison, than Albedo is the worst kind of fodder.
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"You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun" - Manny Calavera

He doesn't need one if nobody cares about Sigma.

According to what I have figured, Sigma is near CATS -- I didn't check so much to find out how much below/above he is -- but you'd also be hard pressed to have me believe that Sigma is around that level. People may not care about him in order for him to have decent strength, but he is not fodder along those lines.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

According to what I have figured, Sigma is near CATS -- I didn't check so much to find out how much below/above he is -- but you'd also be hard pressed to have me believe that Sigma is around that level. People may not care about him in order for him to have decent strength, but he is not fodder along those lines

I wouldn't have expected as much from Ansem either, and he comes from about as mainstream of a game as you'll find.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I think Sigma's strength could be on that level. If there was indeed no SFF in Zero-Protoman then Protoman is already pretty low as is. And I defiantly wouldin't pick Sigma to be anywhere near Protoman.

Ansem certainly surprised me, but he only performed 6% less than what I expected him to. I wasn't expecting big things from him in the first place...


But I'm certainly not saying that Sigma would smash Ghaleon; just that I cannot possibly imagine him losing to Ghaleon. It just doesn't compute in my brain for that to happen.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

If there was indeed no SFF in Zero-Protoman then Protoman is already pretty low as is.

I don't have any doubt that there was SFF in that matchup.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Why couldn't Sigma lose to Ghaleon? Because he's from Mega Man? Because Ghaleon's "too" cult? What?
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Because it doesn't make sense for someone being from Mega Man, having the prominence he does in his games, being a recurring boss in nearly every MMX game, and then being as weak as CATS. You'll have to excuse me if I don't find it a little crazy to believe that someone like Ghaleon couldn't beat him. I could careless what the stats say in this instance. There's nothing I could hear that would convince me Ghaleon looks good in that match outside of pulling out stats.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar