I don't think CT or Metroid are cult, but I don't think they're mainstream either. They're kind of in the middle ground, CT skewing more towards cult and Metroid skewing more towards mainstream.
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Two turtle-like fighters make their debuts in Middle... Will either Blastoise or Cagnazzo manage to win? Find out at www.rpgdl.com!

I also agree that Metroid is fairly cult in the real world, broadening a bit beyond "hardcore gamers" but still not really mainstream at all.

You do realize that you can fit something in between "cult" and "mainstream," right? You don't have to be one or the other. Those are simply the extremes.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Damn, the other topic ended at a bad time. I was gonna ask why Phediuk didn't respond to those who were chopping up his arguments. I hate when my slaughtering of someone else's argument goes to waste. (-_-) Anyways...

And it still does not make an ounce of sense to possibly assume that Samus received a significant boost from SSB/SSBM.

HM, why would games as popular SSB/SSBM NOT help out any of the characters in it? I don't see how it wouldn't bring as much a boost in popularity as another game in ANY of the characters' series, if not even more. I think you put too much stock in how much a role a character has in a game. Throw that out the window in a case such as SSB/SSBM. It's a different thing to use it as a SOURCE for their popularity, but the games undoubtedly boosts popularity. People can like Fox or Samus because they kick ass with them in SSB/SSBM, just like they could like those characters for Star Fox 64, or Super Metroid. You're assuming that the popularity is transient. People can like a character for MANY different reasons....
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

You do realize that you can fit something in between "cult" and "mainstream," right? You don't have to be one or the other. Those are simply the extremes.

Only a Jedi doesn't deal in absolutes. Or somesuch.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Chrono Trigger sold millions. That alone means it isn't cult. It had a ton of features in Nintendo Power, and was a popular pick in their awards issue for that year. On the internet, it was the most popular game until the PS1 brought new fans to the online community. I swear to God, I started conversations with complete strangers about Chrono Trigger, when I was still in high school. For instance, some girl would see me reading about Ayla's charms during C++ class and we would talk about CT, or someone would hear me talking about it with a friend and join in on the conversation.

CT may not be Halo, GTA, or Smash, but it's not cult in any way at all.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

There's no way in hell the Metroid series would be considered "Cult".. On the other hand, Chrono Trigger, however is debateable..

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~ExquisiteSamurai~

Chrono Trigger sold millions. That alone means it isn't cult. It had a ton of features in Nintendo Power, and was a popular pick in their awards issue for that year. On the internet, it was the most popular game until the PS1 brought new fans to the online community. I swear to God, I started conversations with complete strangers about Chrono Trigger, when I was still in high school. For instance, some girl would see me reading about Ayla's charms during C++ class and we would talk about CT, or someone would hear me talking about it with a friend and join in on the conversation.

CT may not be Halo, GTA, or Smash, but it's not cult in any way at all.

It's not 1995 anymore...

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Hmmmm, I didn't notice the convo turned from Metroid being cult to Chrono Trigger.... And now we're talking about EVERYBODY and not just gamers? Totally different topic...
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

It's not 1995 anymore...

Those are real-life experiences from when I was in high-school. I graduated in 2003.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

It's late, and I'm getting pretty sick of this debate. I'll post my retorts in the morning.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Instead of me yammering about sales, let's take a look at them.

Metroid (NES) 2.73
Metroid Prime (GCN) 1.87
Metroid II: Return Of Samus (GB) 1.72
Super Metroid (SNES) 1.42
Metroid Fusion (GBA) 1.39
Metroid: Zero Mission (GBA) 800,000
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (GCN) 500,000

Feel free to compare that to other games that do not even seen 500,000 in sales are are the definition of "cult."

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

For instance, some girl would see me reading about Ayla's charms during C++ class

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this girl wouldn't exactly be your typical, present day casual gamer...

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

So the majority of Metroid games didn't even sell 2 copies...

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

I'm still waiting on a remake of Metroid II: Return of Samus....
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

HM, why would games as popular SSB/SSBM NOT help out any of the characters in it? I don't see how it wouldn't bring as much a boost in popularity as another game in ANY of the characters' series, if not even more

Look, dammit, I never said it did nothing. I quite simply said that it was not SIGNIFICANT. And it wasn't. It did help Samus out, but the majority of her popularity was from the already existing Metroid games, specifically Super Metroid.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Speaking of Chrono Trigger and Metroid, what percentage of the brackets do you think had Liquid beating Lavos/Mother Brain?

I'd say 70.18%.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

3%.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

65.73%
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Board 8: Where people treat each other right.

So the majority of Metroid games didn't even sell 2 copies...

Yes, and the vast majority of games out there do not even see a million copies.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Seriously guys. You picked the wrong person to argue about video games with.

A "cult" game, as it is known among gamers, is an obscure game that didn't sell well, and isn't well-known, but is loved among those who have played it. EarthBound, Skies Of Arcadia, and Disgaea fit this description perfectly. Metroid and Chrono Trigger do not, as they have sold millions of copies, are very well-known, and are also very popular.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

I just got typo'd...

4%.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this girl wouldn't exactly be your typical, present day casual gamer...

I didn't talk to her much, but you're probably right.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

Yes, and the vast majority of games out there do not even see a million copies.


Looks like SOMEONE didn't get my joke.

Seriously guys. You picked the wrong person to argue about video games with.

A "cult" game, as it is known among gamers, is an obscure game that didn't sell well, and isn't well-known, but is loved among those who have played it. EarthBound, Skies Of Arcadia, and Disgaea fit this description perfectly. Metroid and Chrono Trigger do not, as they have sold millions of copies, are very well-known, and are also very popular.

A) Don't get so high and mighty Mr. "I hold forty world records in gaming."

B) It all breaks down to if we are talking in terms of serious gamers or in terms of all gamers. If we are talking serious gamers, niether Chrono Trigger nor Metroid are cult. In terms of all gamers, they are both pretty damn near cult if not there.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

You don't have to be cult or mainstream. There is a middle ground, and that's where Chrono Trigger and Metroid fall.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

You know, there's only one way to solve this - someone's going to have to go out and do another survey like cronton did. I nominate MasterMage119, so he gets some respect, and because the rest of us probably don't want to do it.
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Two turtle-like fighters make their debuts in Middle... Will either Blastoise or Cagnazzo manage to win? Find out at www.rpgdl.com!

You don't have to be cult or mainstream. There is a middle ground, and that's where Chrono Trigger and Metroid fall.

Yes, but in terms of all gamers, they are far closer to the cult side of the spectrum, whereas if this is in terms of serious gamers, they are far closer to the mainstream side. This whole argument has been one big miscommunication...

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Well, Cronton did do a survey of Crono. He did horribly.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

A) Don't get so high and mighty Mr. "I hold forty world records in gaming."

I'm not talking about my gaming skills. I'm talking about my gaming knowledge.

B) It all breaks down to if we are talking in terms of serious gamers or in terms of all gamers. If we are talking serious gamers, niether Chrono Trigger nor Metroid are cult. In terms of all gamers, they are both pretty damn near cult if not there.

I disagree, and I actually have evidence backing me up. There's sales figures, CT's popularity online and it's great performances in game contests (2nd place at GameFAQs, beating FF7 at Gamespot), and the fact that it actually got sequels that also performed well.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

You know, there's only one way to solve this - someone's going to have to go out and do another survey like cronton did. I nominate MasterMage119, so he gets some respect, and because the rest of us probably don't want to do it.

I have all the respect I need, from the people who matter. Which is to say, no one. Cause you all suck. :P

But seriously, no.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

No, Metroid is much closer to the mainstream side than it is the cult side.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

There is no possible way that the Metroid franchise falls under any sane definition of cult.
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www.SC2K5.com

Look, dammit, I never said it did nothing. I quite simply said that it was not SIGNIFICANT. And it wasn't. It did help Samus out, but the majority of her popularity was from the already existing Metroid games, specifically Super Metroid.

Whoa, calm down yo... :P Clearly, significant is relative. What I was saying is that SSB/SSBM would boost popularity just as much as another game in one of the character's series... in many instances even more. Some people treat them like they aren't games concerning a character's popularity. Your definition of significant appears to mean being a SOURCE of their popularity, which is something that I agreed with you is not the case for most of the characters in the games.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I disagree, and I actually have evidence backing me up. There's sales figures, CT's popularity online and it's great performances in game contests (2nd place at GameFAQs, beating FF7 at Gamespot), and the fact that it actually got sequels that also performed well.

So you are arguing that they are mainstream? Do me a favor then. Compare CT's sales with Halo 2's. Now compare the entire Metroid series to the entire Halo series. Or the entire GTA series. Go ahead. I'm curious.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

What exactly is "mainstream?" Being popular enough to the point where you can turn on the TV and see a commercial for said game? Because I saw quite a few for Echoes...

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

What exactly is "mainstream?" Being popular enough to the point where you can turn on the TV and see a commercial for said game? Because I saw quite a few for Echoes...

No, that definition allows Katamari Damacy to be mainstream if I'm not mistaken.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Cronton's survey was dominantly among people who don't play games. We should not be bringing up people who do not play games as the determining factor. Going to a place like EBGames and asking random people in there would be far more beneficial than random people littered around the mall.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

You don't have to sell 5 million or more copies to be mainstream, you know.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

So the majority of Metroid games didn't even sell 2 copies...

Don't worry MM, I laughed.


I understand the sales for CT and whatnot, but RPGs were still not very popular back then for the most part, and FF7 is what got that entire genre out from being cult. CT was arguably the epitome of that genre at the time and was very successful for both its genre and even in general, but the RPG genre still was cult. Now, with FF7 getting RPGs much much more noticed and emulation becoming larger and larger, CT's had plenty more chances of exposure, so I won't call it truly cult anymore. However, I'd call it more cult than anything else, and the next thing I'd call it is old-school, which wouldn't help its case much in the cult-debate.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

So Mario RPG was cult, then?
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

So you are arguing that they are mainstream? Do me a favor then. Compare CT's sales with Halo 2's. Now compare the entire Metroid series to the entire Halo series. Or the entire GTA series. Go ahead. I'm curious.

That proves we're thinking of different things we think of "mainstream." Anyways, I looked at the sales, and they're all mainstream. I'm not seeing your point. It would be easy to call something cult by comparing it to popular franchises. Now compare the entire Halo series with the entire Pokemon series. Halo isn't in the same league as Pokemon when it comes to sales, but that doesn't mean it's cult. The same applies to Chrono Trigger.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

Chrono Trigger can definitely be said to be cult, though around GameFAQs it isn't cult.

Chrono Trigger only sold about 300K outside of Japan in the original run...I'd guess about 200K of that would be in the US (though that's just a guess). Don't know the sales figures for Chronicles and we can't know the emulation numbers. So in the US it could be called cult. Not as cult as some games, but still cultish.
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www.SC2K5.com

I believe the sales numbers for Final Fantasy Chronicles were in the 300K range.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Well, I'm going to bed as I have to wake up in.... Five hours for a 14 hour day. See ya guys.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

FF7 is what got that entire genre out from being cult

Final Fantasy VII got the genre out from being cult in the US, but there were certainly individual RPGs that weren't cult in the US before FF7. Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, FFIV, and FFVI among them.
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www.SC2K5.com

I'd call SMRPG pretty cult too; just because it has Mario in it doesn't mean alot of people have heard of it.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

Final Fantasy VII got the genre out from being cult in the US, but there were certainly individual RPGs that weren't cult in the US before FF7. Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy, FFIV, and FFVI among them.

And Chrono Trigger. Well said.

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"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

Lucid summed up exactly the comment I was going to make. Any comment about Metroid having anything to do with the word 'cult' is thrown out the window with TV commercials. I am not saying everything without commercials is cult, but I am saying that any game that gets TV commercials promoting itself cannot possibly be cult. I would say the jury is out on CT, but given how much I remember seeing it plastered all over Nintendo Power back during its release, I would, at best, call it cult to current young teens who have grown up with only emulation, and not on the NES or SNES.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Team Dragostrea Din Tei for Trivia XV

SMRPG sold 2.14 million copies, about 600,000 of that coming from America. And I certainly wouldn't call it cult.

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“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

These arguments are all relative. Like I asked before, by those terms, does that mean games like the Castlevania series, or a TMNTIV:Turtles in Time, or Viewtiful Joe cult?
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Well, Viewtiful Joe has cult-like sales, though Capcom's trying to push it toward the mainstream.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.