This match has a uncanny resemblence to Solid vs Frog...
---
BANG BANG BANG VIPER BEAM!

The only characters you should ever bring that up for are those that don't have popular games outside of that appearance.

Or, if you ask me, pre-Metroid Prime Samus. I think that SSB played a large part in sustaining her.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

There wasn't exactly an abundant of big titles for February as it was.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1898

It didn't exactly beat a bunch of big titles. In fact, it would have been pathetic if it didn't win that poll. But it was far from impressive.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I think Super Metroid played a larger part in her popularity than people like to give credit for. That was a very popular game and by no means is something that went under the radar. I'm sure SSB helped Samus, but the majority of her strength wasn't close to coming from it.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I'm not saying Smash Brothers had a big part in boosting her strength. I just think it helped prevent her from dropping.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

You missed Mega Man in there. We should just accept that Link can SFF pretty much any character he has shared the spotlight with in a game or console. The only characters that are going to escape it will be the Sega/Sony type characters that were not growing up on the NES and SNES with Link.

---
RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Team Dragostrea Din Tei for Trivia XV

I had no idea Samus existed until SSB. But yeah, most of her popularity is probably from Super Metroid.
---
Current Match Prediction -- Lavos vs. Liquid Snake
Spring 2005 Contest -- 21/22 points

You missed Mega Man in there.

Assuming there even was SFF. We don't have enough sufficient data on Mega Man to draw such a conclusion.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Uh, it is not a guarantee at all that Link SFFed Mega Man.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

And the reason Link does this, and Mario doesn't, is simple: kids are attracted to sword-wielding metrosexuals wearing tights and a green elf hat, not portly plumbers who do shrooms and flowers.

Lesson of the Day: Weapons > Drugs

---
RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Team Dragostrea Din Tei for Trivia XV

I think Super Metroid played a larger part in her popularity than people like to give credit for. That was a very popular game and by no means is something that went under the radar. I'm sure SSB helped Samus, but the majority of her strength wasn't close to coming from it.

I owned an NES and a Super NES as a kid, but I had never heard of Samus or Metroid until SSB.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

>_> What Phediuk said.
---
O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

I owned an NES and a Super NES as a kid, but I had never heard of Samus or Metroid until SSB.

On the other hand, I had heard of Samus before Super Metroid even existed.

---
"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

I grew up playing SNES, and never heard of samus until SSB. I've played a lot of metroid games since then, but SSB is where I first saw her.
---
Please sign this petition for a history board:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=20119594

There's a difference between SFF worth talking about and then SFF that can simply be ignored for how minor it would have been. In this case, I'm suspecting the latter for Fox. He would not be much higher than that 17% value in 2003, certainly not enough to take on the likes of Luigi or Ridley, if he ranks near it. And bringing up SSBM or whatever just seems rather worthless to me. The only characters you should ever bring that up for are those that don't have popular games outside of that appearance.

1) And here, we don't know much one way or another, but we have two years where Fox was likely either SFF'd or suffered from a match deeper in the tourney. I'd suspect him to be closer to Tails than anybody else (which is where I used to have Ridley, strangely enough), especially as opposed to being below an unadjusted Jak.

2) Characters without popular games outside of that appearance like Master Hand? Let's talk about Ness for a moment; he has one game to his name, and he's in SSB/M. He was SFF'd pretty good by Bowser in 2k3, then went on to do respectable against Auron before Auron got SFF'd; when adjusted by Scorpion, I believe Ness is on par with DK. Fox has also been in SSB/M and wasn't even a secret character to unlock like Ness was (for what it's worth, which probably isn't much in this case), and has a series of four games behind him (I forgot about SF:Adventure earlier). If the board is any indication, there's more SF64 love than EB love, too (though not reliable in most cases). For the hell of it, let's mention that Andross is likely gonna look better in the stats than Giygas, even after considering it faced Ganon and got SFF'd some...

...Fox has room to be stronger than Ness, believe it or not. Whether he is or not, we don't know (I wouldn't give him that much credit, personally), but I think it's safe to think they're pretty close. Ness, the RPG character, got SFF'd by Bowser; both are in SSBM, though Bowser's not in SSB. Fox had to face Link in 2k3, both of which are in both SSB and SSBM...

...I just see no way how Fox wasn't SFF'd significantly. Not necessarily to the point where he'd be on DK's or Ness's level, but Fox would get well above 17% in the final stats if he didn't have to face Link.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

...I just see no way how Fox wasn't SFF'd significantly

Probably because that requires 2002 Cloud to be very close to Link.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

In The Wind Waker, it is explained entirely why Ganon did what he did in Ocarina of Time. He always wanted to live in the bright, happy country of Hyrule. Instead, he was forced to live in a gritty, death encompassed desert.

I never got that part. In OoT, you never had any indication that the Gerudo were "suffering"..... <_<
---
Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Cloud doesn't have to be very close to Link though; as long as Cloud was noticably stronger than Mario let him show in 2k2, Fox's lookin' alright to be within my realm of reasoning here. According to the 2k2 stats (where nothing's adjusted, mind you), Fox would get about 17.73% on Link 2k4 (which is just barely over what Fox got against Link, I know). However, we know about the Mario/Cloud controversy, so I won't elaborate there. Let's say Cloud was supposed to win and would have got 42.5% on Link before KH...reasonable, I think. That would have put Fox at about 20% on Link 2k4, maybe a lil' more; I think SF:Adv and SF:Ass would be enough to get him that extra 1%-2% since his last appearance in our contests.

From there, there's Ridley and where he lands; he shouldn't be too far off one way or another from Fox's level...if Diablo gains much steam though, that will over-rate Ridley however much. I believe Fox has been in one more game than Ridley has been, and they've all been console games that got attention for each system they were on as well as had Fox be playable. One of Ridley's games (maybe two?) has been hald-held games that just don't get the same attention, and Ridley's never been playable. Fox also has his own series and gets much more attention in the series he's in, as opposed to Ridley being bosses and not getting much attention outside of that. Then, again, SSB/M is on his side...

...I won't say Ridley > Fox is out of this world, but I don't see much reason to pick Ridley there than why I picked Ridley to be in the Final Four: it can only be so far away from Samus. If Ridley's nearby Fox stat-wise (I'm talking a percent or two), I wouldn't worry about a Fox > Ridley pick, and I suspect that's the case.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

How much % is Kefka expected to get on Wesker?

---
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder.

Lavos 44% 30236
Liquid Snake 56% 38487
TOTAL VOTES 68723
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I owned an NES and a Super NES as a kid, but I had never heard of Samus or Metroid until SSB.

Yes, but there are no doubt many people who did. If Crono had such a strength coming from one game back on the SNES, there's no doubt in my mind that Samus certainly had a large part of her strength coming from her games. Metroid wasn't an unknown gaming franchise back then, it was actually quite popular.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Wesker's expected to get 36.16% on Kefka, I believe, though keep in mind Luca/Wesker had the lowest vote-totals all contest long so far, so he could get lower. Then add to it Kefka's got a pic many think is more recognizable...minor factors, but I can see Wesker doing worse than Mithos.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

On the other hand, I had heard of Samus before Super Metroid even existed.

Same here.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I gotta ask again, who was it that sig-bet with me that Wesker would break 43% on Kefka? I'm thinking CaptainFlufflez (can't remember the exact user-name, so no offense), though I'm not sure.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I heard of Samus not long after I knew of Metroid (which I had as a kid)...but, here's where I'm weird, I think; I hadn't ever heard of Super Metroid until probably when SSB came out, despite knowing Metroid and Samus.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

From: Dilated Chemist | Posted: 5/22/2005 10:48:52 PM | #419
How much % is Kefka expected to get on Wesker?

Pretty similar to what he got on Mithos. Wesker would be projected to beat Mithos with 50.15%, remember.
---
Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 20/22 - Matches: 17/19 - Rank: 00392/24748 - Today: Liquid - Tomorrow: Kefka

I'd suspect him to be closer to Tails than anybody else (which is where I used to have Ridley, strangely enough), especially as opposed to being below an unadjusted Jak.

Fox would be higher than the 17% value from 2003 without a doubt. This is due to having a new game released since then, because even if it didn't sell wonders, it still was a new game focusing around air. And I suspect that he would inch closer to Tails than anybody, but I wouldn't take Tails over Luigi and I won't take Fox over Ridley.

2) Characters without popular games outside of that appearance like Master Hand?

I never specifically said Master Hand. The character I had in mind was someone like Ness, who does not have a popular series. Fox is absolutely different from Ness in every aspect. His franchise has sold multiple millions and is very popular. Bringing up SSBM to help him is just ridiculous, to be honest. He doesn't need help from it because he was already well-known before it.

...I just see no way how Fox wasn't SFF'd significantly.

From what I remember of my previous argument on this matter, it would require something to look incredibly odd in the 2002 stats. What's more, I don't see Link significantly SFFing Fox. Sure, it will be there, but not in anything large.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I'm surprised HM didn't have a response to my comment on Ganon...
---
Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Give me time.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

At worst (that is, unadjusted 2004 Kefka), he should get about 60% on Wesker.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I never got that part. In OoT, you never had any indication that the Gerudo were "suffering"..... <_<

Ganon was a full blown adult by the events of OoT. His speech suggests that it was during his childhood that he experienced these things and while it was growing up, which would pre-date OoT.

To refresh some memories, here is the entire monologue from The Wind Waker.


(The Wind Waker Spoilers)





My country lay within a vast desert. When the sun rose into the sky, a burning wind punished my lands, searing the world. And when the moon climbed into the dark of night, a frigid gale pierced our homes.

No matter when it came, the wind carried the same thing... Death. But the winds that blew across the green fields of Hyrule brough something other than suffering and ruin.

I coveted that wind, I suppose. It can only be called fate. ...That here, I would again gather the three with the crests. ...That I should lay my hand on that which grants the wishes of the beholder. That when power, wisdom, and courage come together, the gods would have no choice but to come down...

The power of the gods... The Triforce! He who touches it will have whatever he desires granted!


Seriously, it always pains me when people bash Ganon even after playing TWW. It is quite easy to piece together everything else once you see this part. Everything about it made Ganon a terrific character. The setting, the mood, and the eventual fight. Everything was done spectacularly to make Ganon look incredible. That's why he far exceeds just one of my favorite villains, but one of my favorite characters.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Hmm, I'm actually thinking this might be closer than expected. Something like 54-46, Kefka. But what do I know...

---
Beauty is in the eye of the beer-holder.

HM, you've said before that you don't like villains in general, so it makes sense that the least villainous villains would be the ones that you would like the most.

And if Ridley = Luigi, Fox > Ridley also means that Fox > Luigi. As much as I wish it were true, the SF games aren't popular enough for that.

I never bash Ganon. The Wind Waker is one of my favorite games, period. I was just kidding by bringing up a discrepancy in the game. It never appeared that the Gerudo in the game had any signs of suffering. I'm talking about in the game only though. I'm sure Nintendo could fill in the story outside of the game or in another game.
---
Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Bringing up SSBM to help him is just ridiculous, to be honest. He doesn't need help from it because he was already well-known before it.

Considering we were just discussing how SSB helped people here at GameFAQs learn about Samus, it's no stretch to think Fox was helped out too.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I said I think it maintained her (meaning, it kept her from dropping due to a long hiatus). I don't think it actually boosted her in any significant way.
---
Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Ridley = Luigi, hmm...that puts Diablo at 27.11% on Link, which is between Sora and a SFF'd Auron. I don't know about him being that strong, though Diablo's 'bout bound to avoid a tripling from Link.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

HM, you've said before that you don't like villains in general, so it makes sense that the least villainous villains would be the ones that you would like the most.

Ganon is very much a villain. That one speech doesn't take away everything he did in OoT or would later do in the oncoming Zelda games. Everything he does has reason. Sure, he doesn't randomly slaughter people, but if he finds it necessary to do so he does. A villain who isn't amount killing for no reason is a villain I actually enjoy.

Considering we were just discussing how SSB helped people here at GameFAQs learn about Samus, it's no stretch to think Fox was helped out too.

The only reason people are bringing that up is because Samus went about 8 years without a main game to her name. Fox, on the other hand, did not go that long without another game. He had a SNES title, a N64 title, and even a GCN title. Samus being helped by SSB in large is absolutely ridiculous. It doesn't make sense given the popularity of Super Metroid. The majority of her popularity came from her own game, but she was helped by SSB due to the fact she was absent from gaming for so long.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

I said I think it maintained her (meaning, it kept her from dropping due to a long hiatus). I don't think it actually boosted her in any significant way.

I agree. I have always been one to think this. It just never made sense to me why she would be helped by a game when she was from a popular franchise to begin with.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

It just never made sense to me why she would be helped by a game when she was from a popular franchise to begin with.

We could switch "she" with Cloud and "a popular franchise" to FF7 too, if you like. SSB and SSBM attracted different players much like KH did, but with as many characters as there is and not having much focus on any one character, it's not gonna help so much...but we never had a contest before both SSB and SSBM were released anyways, so it's almost useless to argue whether Samus would have dropped without SSB/M or not.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

I agree. I have always been one to think this. It just never made sense to me why she would be helped by a game when she was from a popular franchise to begin with.

Anyone who started gaming in the N64/PSX era wouldn't know Samus. Heck, I technically started in the SNES/Genesis era and I didn't even know her.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Let's say Cloud was supposed to win and would have got 42.5% on Link before KH...reasonable, I think.

That is far, far to much. If Cloud was going to win, it would NOT have been by that much on Mario. He was only winning by 1,000 when the PGC link went up as it was. There is no way in hell that Cloud would have neared 56% -- 59.91% to be exact.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Anyway, for tomorrow, I'm going with Kefka at 60%.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

That much is true, but we don't know how many people came there that day since SMS had just released either. However many, I believe they outnumber the PGC people.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Robotnik
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000." --Cartman

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

HM, the Metroid series wasn't and isn't as popular as you think it was/is.

Samus isn't a household name, whether you want to admit it or not. It's no secret that she and Ness were helped a lot by SSB and SSBM, especially considering that neither of them had received a new game since 1994.

Besides, are you really about to claim that the majority of the Ice Climbers' popularity comes from the game Ice Climber? Come on.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

EarthBound was released in 1995.

---
"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

Ice Climbers' popularity

No such thing.

---
"MyWorldIsSNES" Score: 22, Rank: 33 (T1), Pick: Liquid Snake
My Video Game World Records: http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx?c=22&p=35289

I'm not saying that Samus was a household name or that Metroid was as popular as Mario. But if you didn't know Samus before that, it isn't as though everyone else is just like you. On the same note, I don't expect everyone to be like me and know of Metroid as early as the NES. But the games did sell millions back in the NES and SNES days, which suggests to me that more than enough people knew of her. Add to that, that Crono had all of his strength from a SNES game and I fail to see where the stretch is that Samus is not significantly popular due to her own games pre-Metroid Prime. Yes, SSB/SSBM had an affect, but people thinking it played a large role are out of their minds. Metroid was not an unknown franchise, or "cult," back in the day.

---
“Remember us, Executor. Remember what was done here today. May Adun watch over you.”
- Tassadar

Ah, my mistake. I was looking at the Japanese release date. Anyway, my point is that Ness and Samus both got a considerable boost from SSB/SSBM due to not having new games in a long time. Claiming otherwise is just foolish.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.