ff6 is a different case; there's no one character in ff6 that is considered great, really. you have to be a good character in a popular game to do well in this contest. ask people to rank ff6 characters here and you'll see what I mean - you'll likely get very different lists.

besides, Kefka just goes HA HA HA HA HA HA over and over. (not unlike Albedo, really, and you can see what's happening to him without a popular game to his credit.) also, compared to most of the clowns in this contest, Kefka's pretty strong, I'd say.

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I'll agree that the sort of name recognition that comes from being a title character doesn't mean everything...it certainly hasn't done wonders for Pac-Man and Donkey Kong, among others. But at the same time, I would have a very difficult time believing that Zelda's 40% effort against Mega Man had nothing to do with her name and it's connection to the series.

It may sound a little too obvious to say this, but the benefit that a character should receive from being a title character should be directly proportional to the popularity of their game or series...so with as successful as Diablo (the game) has been, Diablo (the character) should be in pretty decent shape.
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there's no one character in ff6 that is considered great, really. you have to be a good character in a popular game to do well in this contest.

There isn't a single character great in FF6? You've stated an opinion more than anything. There are many, many people who think Kefka is a great character, along with many other characters from the game. People are not always voting for the character because of the game. If that were the case, why wouldn't Gordon Freeman, who everyone loves, do so crappy in comparison to Half-Life?

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Gordon Freeman: MIT graduate, Ph.D in theoretical physics, forever loser of GameFAQs.

There are many, many people who think Kefka is a great character, along with many other characters from the game.

that's exactly what I mean; ask people for a list of FF6 characters and you're not going to have a consensus. I'm not calling everyone in ff6 weak, but rather that everyone is in the middle because there isn't a large fanbase for any one character. I'd be curious to see how Locke vs. Kefka went, myself.

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I would suspect a few characters being stronger than Kefka from FF6, but he shouldn't be that far away from his game if there are such a large amount of people who think he is a great character. At that, it isn't as though I've seen people actually care for Diablo the character.

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Gordon Freeman: MIT graduate, Ph.D in theoretical physics, forever loser of GameFAQs.

Oh, and in the theme of Nemesis/Wesker and pre-contest beliefs, I also think that Mother Brain and Ridley will be much closer than many said.

A lot of people believed that Ridley would be very much stronger than Mother Brain, and I don't think that will be the case in the final standings.

i totally agree with creativename here and i will have quite a lengthy chucle if Mother Brain actually winds up higher than Ridley. hey, it could happen, lol.


The only real arguments I've seen in Diablo's favor are box recognition (easily countered with Duke Nukem and the fact that the game for which he appeared on the box was released in 1996),


that is a poor example, because:

#1) Duke's game was released years before the contest and he was well past a prime. Duke was a completely faded star by the time the Summer Contests started in 2002. Diablo, on the other hand, is still running strong with fans eagerly anticipating the possibility of the announcement of the next game in the series next week at E3. i repeat: THEY ARE EAGERLY ANTICIPATING THE POSSIBILITY OF AN ANNOUNCEMENT - it's not even confirmed that the next game will be announced at E3, but just the thought of it makes many Diablo fans squeal with delight. has anyone been anticipating the next Duke Nukem game for the past 3 years? no; he's been demoted to the back of a milk carton.

#2) action characters, ESPECIALLY FPS characters, have usually performed much worse than RPG characters. look at the top performers in the past contests and see how many are RPG characters and how many are FPS characters. it is an accepted fact GameFAQS is an RPG dominated site. Duke is a FPS character, while Diablo is an RPG character. you simply cannot compare the two characters evenly.

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HM, I think he meant a great stand-out character from the cast. There's several good/great characters, but there's not one that stands out.

Since we're talkin' 'bout the name-power of a game/character and the comparisons again, I'll repost this from #118...


I'm gonna compare all the characters who have had a series or game named after them...to Kefka 2k4 (for my rookie-ass purposes, this is assuming Mega Man was correctly adjusted):

-Crono - 71.62% ( Crono, Chrono...close enough to mention here)
-Mega Man - 70.53%
-Mario - 69.50%
-Sonic - 68.40%
-Zero - 66.51% (assuming MM/Zero was normal)
-Zelda - 62.53% (assuming Zelda would be 28.30% in 2k4)
-Kirby - 60.15%
-Yoshi - 57.95%
-Donkey Kong - 55.18% (assuming a steady 2k3 DK gets 23.66% in 2k4)
-Luigi - 53.81%
-Donkey Kong - 51.71% (2k4-stats; I don't think this was adjusted at all)
-Bomberman - 49.15% (assuming Cloud/Squall was correctly adjusted)
-Viewtiful Joe - 46.28%
-Duke Nukem: 45.00%
-Max Payne - 43.25% (assuming MM/Zero was normal)
-Crash Bandicoot - 34.84% (doesn't take into account MC's help from halo.bungie.org
next round)
-Jak - 40.55% (unadjusted; if Auron's adjusted by Scorpion 2k3, he's noticably
higher)
-Conker - 38.59%
-Pac-Man - 34.94% (funny how that one works out, eh?)
-Earthworm Jim - 28.88%
-Ratchet - 23.69%

Note many of them's been in games outside of their main series. Also note how Duke Nukem could make a respectable showing against Kefka, and he's the top PC character on this list; you could say the cup is half-full or half-empty with Duke though, depending on your stance. I hope this'll help some in bein' able to compare Diablo to somebody in that list.

Just to note on top of all that, eleven of the twenty-one characters with the franchise/game name on their side are stronger than Kefka. Food for thought.
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If Luigi counts, you may as well put in Link for Zelda 2: Adventures of Link and Link's Awakening. And there's Knuckles' Chaotix, Tails had a game of his own too, etc.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 10/10 - Matches: 10/10 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Bison - Tomorrow: Ridley

cyko:

1) Point taken, but I've thought Diablo > Duke from the beginning, so that doesn't affect me much; I also don't think there's much debate about that...it's just that they share alot of similarities.
2) While Diablo may be from an RPG game, he's still an NPC in a PC game. I think it had an unsuccessful port to the PSX, but otherwise, still an NPC in a PC game; I know Duke Nukem's had at least one port as well (probably not too successful either, heh), though I know it covered both the N64 and PSX (maybe Dreamcast, too?).
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I threw in Luigi solely 'cuz it was a launch game and alot of people played/bought it at the time (though I realize it's not one of the Gamecube's best selling games). Had it and, say, Super Mario Sunshine switched release dates, I likely wouldn't have considered it. Besides, I also noted that many have been in games/series outside of their self-titled game/series; Luigi fits that bill.

I can throw in Knuckles and Link if you like, but I don't think that was the point you wanted to get across.
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Diablo is an NPC, true. but up until SSBM, Zelda was also an NPC throughout the whole series. and other than OOT, her entire character consisted of "save me, Link!!"

plus, remember why we all picked Max Payne over Gordon Freeman in 2003? because there is no game titled "Gordon Freeman".

besides, my comment was mostly directed towards Phediuk who basically said that name recognition was a non-factor.

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plus, remember why we all picked Max Payne over Gordon Freeman in 2003? because there is no game titled "Gordon Freeman".

There could have been more justification to it than that. Although Diablo and Gordon share plenty of similarties, with the biggest difference being not sharing being named after the game. Both of them appear on the box art, Freeman even more recognizable than Diablo, and both of them come from PC titles with very large followings. Are you telling me the difference is going to be Diablo is named after the game? Hell, you even play as Freeman whereas Diablo is merely a NPC PC character. I have no idea why people are making him out to be so big. This is Diablo, the character, not Diablo the game. The voting will very much reflect this.

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ah, but you forgot one thing, HM:

demons >>>>>>> scientists

=P

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You can't mess with the MIT graduate, yo. =p

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Gordon Freeman: MIT graduate, Ph.D in theoretical physics, forever loser of GameFAQs.

plus, remember why we all picked Max Payne over Gordon Freeman in 2003? because there is no game titled "Gordon Freeman".

I don't recall that. I remember picking Max because he had some semblence of credibility even after his blowout loss to Scorpion at the time, while Gordon was similarly owned by a nameless pair of 37DDs.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 10/10 - Matches: 10/10 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Bison - Tomorrow: Ridley

Slowflake:
The problem is that each character doesn't have control over at least 49 points, so I chopped these off in the odds' calculations. It doesn't add up to 1, but it's a bit more sensical. You know that horse who won a big race recently? He had 50:1 odds, pretty much the underdog of underdogs. The closest to it last year was Mario, and you can't exactly tell me Mario's a big underdog. And if you were going by the 4^(x-1) method, CRONO was well past 50:1. With my method, 50:1 falls between Vergil and Sin. A little better now, huh?

Slowflake, your method doesn't give odds. Those numbers do not represent probabilities in any sense. You can't have odds that don't add up to one (outside of the house taking its "cut").

If you believe the 4^(x-1) methods gives skewed odds, simply use a lower coefficient. Or some other method entirely--but it has to give results that fall under the definition of odds.

Your method gives numbers that are formatted to resemble odds--but they are not.


BTW, what exactly would be weird about Mario having 50:1 odds? Most people certainly wouldn't think odds of just under 2% to win the whole contest would be off by that much for Mario. Compared to the Big Three, he's a huge underdog.

If there was actually money involved here, people would need pretty big odds to place money on Mario winning the contest. They just wouldn't do it otherwise.
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To be fair, both Max Payne and Gordon Freeman suck, so we almost had to rely on that factor...that combined with him having more console success than Gordon.

About Zelda, yes, you're right, but she's been in more games that's spanned more systems and generations, and most/all (take your pick) of the main LoZ games are more popular here than Diablo 1 or 2...it's not proven, but it's likely. Also, the only time we've ever seen Zelda in action here is about a year and a half after SSBM was released. That reaches a new crowd (and is the Gamecube's best seller, to boot), won the same division that had LoZ: Wind Waker in it, and even had her be top-tier (well, Sheik, but she still comes with the territory, so it might be worth noting). It's a stretch, but what if LoZ being named after her didn't have much of an effect? I'm not saying I believe that, but it's possible.

The point is that she had alot more going for her and she wasn't power-house material. I understand Diablo doesn't have to be a power-house to take the entire division, but I'm confident Zelda got more help from gettin' her name in the titles than Diablo. The difference is that Diablo doesn't have all the other advantages she has, so it's a question of how much lower he'll be than her. The only factor he has than she doesn't is outside sources, and it's your call on how much faith you'll put into those. I don't put much into it for a character battle, personally.
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But the fact of the matter is, what kind of coefficient needs to be used to give Sephiroth believable odds? With 2, the minimum possible is 8:5. And, well, as you yourself (?) pointed out, the house would get raided at these odds.

As I said, the problem is that a character doesn't have control over 49 points per bracket.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 10/10 - Matches: 10/10 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Bison - Tomorrow: Ridley

But the fact of the matter is, what kind of coefficient needs to be used to give Sephiroth believable odds?

4 at the very least; 4 gives him a 68% shot. 10 gives him an 87% shot, Ganon about 10%, and nobody else anything of significance--which is the way it should be. Who would actually place money on Kefka or Ocelot unless they had the potential for getting extremely high returns?

With 2, the minimum possible is 8:5. And, well, as you yourself (?) pointed out, the house would get raided at these odds.

Because they underrate Sephiroth heavily. Which is why higher coefficients gives far more reasonable results, if you desire to use the proportion of points method.

As I said, the problem is that a character doesn't have control over 49 points per bracket.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

We can't get "real" odds because there's no market; no invisible hand. The point proportion method is a proxy; it is interesting because it is so simple and straightforward, and very easy to do (it takes mere minutes).
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well, i still say that Diablo will be strong enough to make it through this mid-level Division. >_>

also, i just noticed that the boards will be down for the first two hours of tonight's match!! that sucks. we have what might be the biggest match of the contest and we can't even flip out about it on the boards. boo.

btw - now that Bison has dropped from 73% to 68.5%, what happened to the Bison bandwagon? heh, i wonder if it's possible for both Kefka and Bison to lose percentage points during the day in the same match.

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I'm still very pleased by what Bison has done today. I wasn't even expecting him to do this well. But it just guaranteeds that Bison will be a contender for the division.

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Gordon Freeman: MIT graduate, Ph.D in theoretical physics, forever loser of GameFAQs.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

I'll try and make it simple.

A character can be involved in a _____ match that's worth ____ points.

Round 1: 1 pt
Round 2: 2 pts
Div. finals: 4 pts
Semifinals: 8 pts
Finals: 16 pts

That means a lone character can be worth up to 31 points on his lonesome, but NOT the total of 80.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 10/10 - Matches: 10/10 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Bison - Tomorrow: Ridley

Well, try to set up some chat channel or something. I won't be there, but whatever. It's worth a try.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 10/10 - Matches: 10/10 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Bison - Tomorrow: Ridley

just a thought - since Harrich's last update, Bison's been getting just 65.4% of the votes by my math. I'd place that at his "real" strength, as many of those earlier votes came from Europeans who have never had a game containing Albedo. it's still quite an impressive showing, but I think the winner of Diablo/Ridley would be a favourite over Bison.

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well, i always considered Bison to have a legitimate shot at the division, but i thought he was less likely than Diablo or Kefka or Ridley to win it. it is also possible that Albedo is as weak as or even weaker than Luca, which i could definitely accept. and that would put Bison at or just below Kefka's level. it's too bad that we have no way of knowing how Ridley and Diablo stack up against Bison until next week. although, if Ridley and Diablo have an 84000+ match, i'm more inclined to give the edge of the whole division to the winner of their match.

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It doesn't matter to me what the vote totals are personally.

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Gordon Freeman: MIT graduate, Ph.D in theoretical physics, forever loser of GameFAQs.

Leonhart said KOS-MOS/Ryu didn't have Ryu losing in the daytime like SMRPG/SF2 or Albedo/Bison has had SF2 or Bison losing. I trust his word on it, so what I question is if there is something unique here we're missing on in these three matches (or just KOS/Ryu and Albedo/Bison, if you like)...or if it's something along the lines of the day of the week, etc.
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I've said this since the beginning, and I very well could be proven wrong tomorrow, but...

Ridley >or= Diablo >or= Kefka >or= M. Bison

...tomorrow could break it quick tomorrow though. Time'll tell.
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Saying a word twice in the same sentence and being redundant is the new trend, by the way. Tomorrowx2 for life.
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It doesn't matter to me what the vote totals are personally.

the reason why i set the match total of confidence at 84,000 is because a total that high would give BOTH Ridley AND Diablo vote totals similar to Bison and Kefka. and if both of them match Bison and Kefka's totals in the same match, then neither character can be fodder. therefore, the winner of the match would get as many votes as Bison and Kefka despite a much harder opponent. therefore, i would then give the winner the edge. now, that's not a certainty if Diablo or Ridley blows the loser of their match away, but if their match is a blowout, then the bandwagon of the winner will take off like a rocket out of hell. or Norfair. whatever. >_>

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Alucard = Diablo. Kirby = Ridley

Um, no. Alucard came in the big favorite.
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Spring Contest 2005 - Points: 11/11 - Matches: 11/11 - Rank: 00001/24748 - Today: Ridley - Tomorrow: Ganondorf

Because there's free time for me, let's update my lil' stats again. Assuming Mega Man's properly adjusted and Albedo finishes with 31.61% on M. Bison, if M. Bison equals ___:

Ryu: Albedo gets 18.86% on Link (just over Kain) and 41.73% on KOS-MOS.
Ken 2k2: Albedo gets 16.79% on Link (between Conker and unadjusted Jak) and 37.15% on KOS-MOS.
Kefka: Albedo gets 13.41% on Link (0.01% over Gordon Freeman) and 29.67% on KOS-MOS.
Ken 2k3: Albedo gets 12.78% on Link (a lil' short of Terry Bogard) and 28.32% on KOS-MOS.


Albedo now has 31.6%...bbbiiiggg difference. </sarcasm> Albedo probably will drop a lil' though.
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Question: which sites helped Diablo 2 at the GameSpy tourney?
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Gahhh... this is therealmnm. I'm home in Miami now and I'm stuck using my little brother's account because I don't want to risk disqualifying my bracket since he has one entered too. Although I think ANYONE can tell he is his own person if he has CATS, Luca Blight, AND Master Hand winning a match. Plus he has a DBZ screenname AND SHADOW in his sig.... I'm debating whether I should post at all after seeing that sig... >_< Oh well, we will see in 3 hours whether or not I have to worry about protecting my bracket still...
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Leonhart said KOS-MOS/Ryu didn't have Ryu losing in the daytime like SMRPG/SF2 or Albedo/Bison has had SF2 or Bison losing. I trust his word on it, so what I question is if there is something unique here we're missing on in these three matches (or just KOS/Ryu and Albedo/Bison, if you like)...or if it's something along the lines of the day of the week, etc.

It might just be due to Ryu's strength. After all, this is the guy who went 50/50 with Sonic before his notorious day vote pushed him ahead.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Who have ya got, mnm?
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily
"What awaits each person in Heaven is eternal peace, divine rest, and $10,000 cash." --Cartman

That means a lone character can be worth up to 31 points on his lonesome, but NOT the total of 80.

What totals to 80...?
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Diablooooooo...... Although I personally like Ridley better, since I don't play PC games. But, I'm trying to win. I'm not too worried about Ridley although it can go either way. I had a harder time trying to figure out how far Bison would go...

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"This is the ultimate!!" - Shadow the Hedgehog

Meh, I'm debating whether to go to South Beach tonight or see who will win the next match.... If you happen not to hear from me the rest of the night, you know where I am...
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"This is the ultimate!!" - Shadow the Hedgehog

The time is close.

And now, I go to bed now to wake up later to witness the beginning of the death that does belong to the unlucky victim that is Diablo.

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PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (152 Signs!)

well, i have Diablo tomorrow, put my prize-less alt (which has been in the Top 50 since Day 1) has Ridley. i'm definitely cheering for Diablo, but at least i still get a little something out of it, if Ridley wins.

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quick thoughts:

- I'd guess 65% to get the Bison / Albedo match right, and six people to drop out of the top 50;

- I see a night advantage for Diablo, if only because word of mouth would have spread by then. I'm not sure if anyone has an advantage in the day, though I imagine bracket voting will favour Ridley;

- I've got Ridley in my bracket and seem to change my mind every day as to who's going to win. today seems to be a Diablo day.

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I either want this to be a back-and-forth matchup or a Ridley blowout. I don't want a Tidus/Shadow match that, although close, still doesn't offer much in the way of excitement.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I no longer believe in my "signs" talk I had been talkin' 'bout the past few days with M. Bison, but I'm not sold on him winning the division or next round just yet either.

As for Ridley/Diablo, with the hype it's had, this match deserves nothing less than a match like FFT/MGS.
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I'm just ready to get it over with. It's been beat to death, and then had its corpse mutilated beyond recognition.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

I agree. I swear if I hear another person bringing up Zelda to counter the namesake argument or Gordon Freeman to compare PC characters to game I will flip out and decapitate fools...
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"This is the ultimate!!" - Shadow the Hedgehog

Blah blah Zelda blah blah Gordon blah blah Duke blah blah Starcraft blah blah-- *sees the knife*

...I'll quit now.
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Not a knife.... Vigoorian Flails yo....
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Oh ****; somebody means business, heh.
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