This might change everything. If Diablo wins, everyone blame it on CJayC. :-)

-Tai

I don't think it's going to make a difference whether or not Ridley/Diablo is on a Saturday. Diablo=/=StarCraft; the day of the week doesn't matter a bit.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Well, define Starcraft=/=Diablo.

Clearly Wind Waker and Halo on at least one point in time had the lead over Starcraft. It's like...if it weren't for B.Net, or fan sites, Starcraft would have surely lost. Now, I'll search for some Diablo fan sites..

The fact of the matter is that I haven't seen anyone rallying for Diablo support like they did for StarCraft. I really don't expect there to be a massive attempt at a comeback like there was for SC.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

The question now is if Diablo will ever be behind or not, heh.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

From: HaRRicH | Posted: 4/30/2005 11:01:15 AM | Message Detail
The question now is if Diablo will ever be behind or not

Exactly. I expect a swarm of "Who the hell is Ridley?" topics on the day of that match, and I feel that Ridley losing would only be an upset on this board.

~*ST*~
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Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

I don't expect many "Who's Ridley?" topics, but I do agree that Diablo's gonna be taking the bracket-advantage in that one.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Well I wont be speaking until May 2...what a pain!
---
SP2K Dream Final: Dr. Wily vs Kefka
Read Steve Illumina Speaks! Pub Trivian Forever

The main mitigating factor is that most of the characters here are unknowns; the main issue then becomes, in all the matches where there is an "obvious" favorite, what are the odds that the consensus is totally wrong? A couple true surprises will lower the odds of a perfect bracket greatly.

But it still seems quite likely that there will be a fair number of perfect brackets.

Okay, to add to this: this contest is probably no Summer 2002 Contest difficulty-wise. That there aren't many matches where Board 8 does not overwhelmingly favor a certain character. I don't think that's the case for people outside of the board. Well, from the looks of it it seems the board will get every match right except for a few toss-ups and maybe 1 or 2 big upsets. If those upsets happen it could pretty much eliminate pretty much everybody...from Board 8. Yet, let's also not forget that, due to many unknown characters, Board 8 probably won't be heads and shoulders above the rest.

Therefore I think it's safe to conclude that many competitive predictors outside Board 8 will see the upsets coming that Board 8 didn't. I'm sure we'll see some perfect brackets.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

If everything goes according to plan, when will Kefka/Diablo/Ridley be?
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I'm like a mentally insane girl who keeps running back to her abusive boyfriend. ~ Mars
ZSB [aX]

Through my insane power to count on my fingers, I think Kefka'll face Ridley/Diablo on a Sunday.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Ridley/Diablo reminds me of Magus/Ganondorf back in 2003, to be honest.

I seem to recall quite a few people predicting Ganon to win because the Zelda series is so popular.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Interesting analogy, though neither Ridley nor Diablo are to Metroid or Diablo like Ganon/Magus are to LoZ/CT...

...and yes, I see the irony of saying Diablo isn't to Diablo like Ganon/Magus are to LoZ/CT, too.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

I realize that this isn't exactly the same situation, but the arguments for each character are quite similar to Magus/Ganon.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

From what I've gathered from the board:

Characters who I think are being underestimated:
Bison
Kuja

Characters who I think are being overestimated:
Ganondorf
Albedo
Ridley
Ocelot
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"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease." -- The Art of War

.....People are overestimating Albedo?

0_0
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Volgin is one sexy beast....

People in general are under-estimating Kuja? It's one thing to say yours truly here may be under-estimating him, but in general, I think he's being over-estimated.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Comparing Ganon/Magus to Ridley/Diablo jsut doesn't seem correct to me at all.
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But my silent fears have gripped me, long before I reach the phone, long before my tongue has tripped me. Must I always be alone?

Characters who I think are being underestimated:
Bison
Kuja

Characters who I think are being overestimated:
Ganondorf
Albedo
Ridley
Ocelot

If anything, Kuja is being overestimated, as most of the board has him to the third round. Ganondorf can't really be over or underestimated seeing as we know where he ranks... Albedo...? Ridley is being overestimated, but so is Diablo. And Ocelot... well, I have him beating Bowser... >>;;

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

If anything, Kuja is being overestimated

Only by the people that think Kuja's first round match is a coin flip.
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Jon Thomson - knows nothing
Ridley's Road to Victory - Round 1 vs. (7) Diablo

Kuja's being overestimated because people think he can beat Master Hand and Sin? Gimme a break.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

"Kuja's being overestimated because people think he can beat Master Hand and Robotnik?"

There. I fixed it for you :-P
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"Eww! What is up with that shirt? Where's the hot looking guy again?" - a girl after seeing his[Vercetti's] pic.

Assuming that Kuja = 80% of SFF'd Vivi isn't a huge stretch. Assuming that Ocelot will be 75% of LS after the whole Solid **** thing isn't a big stretch either. Those two will take up slots in the top 3 characters who haven't been in a summer contest.
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But my silent fears have gripped me, long before I reach the phone, long before my tongue has tripped me. Must I always be alone?

Well, whatever. Assuming Kuja can win two matches against characters who won't exactly be popular themselves isn't that farfetched.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Then again, some people expect Master Hand to be strong simply by virtue of being in Super Smash Brothers, which has done Ness very little favor.
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Hi,I'm partystar. ^_^
Or maybe I'm Leonhart. That's for you to decide.

Then again, some people expect Master Hand to be strong simply by virtue of being in Super Smash Brothers, which has done Ness very little favor.

I have Kuja winning, but truthfully, it really isn't all Ness's fault. You could argue for him that he was SFF'D by Bowser, and he did beat Jak. Doesn't that make him something, to some extent?

From: AmazingKirby | Posted: 4/30/2005 4:27:59 PM | #375
Then again, some people expect Master Hand to be strong simply by virtue of being in Super Smash Brothers, which has done Ness very little favor.

All lies. Ness would have NEVER come close to Jak without SSB. Look at what Bowser did to him.

However, it's virtually impossible for Master Hand to be stronger than Ness, so Kuja wins this one by default.

ATTN: ULTI

Do you want me to make the appropriate changes to your bracket in the BOP?
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

All lies. Ness would have NEVER come close to Jak without SSB. Look at what Bowser did to him.

I said very little favor, I didn't say none at all.

And Bowser would've beaten the crap out of Ness like that regardless of SSB.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

What I meant was that there was a huge difference between how Ness performed against Bowser and against Auron. He did 10 points better against a slightly stronger character...
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

Yes, Ness would probably be as weak as the 2003 stats show him to be without Smash Brothers, but anybody who expects for Master Hand to receive that kind of favor is out of their minds.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

That's what I'm saying. For Master Hand to be as strong as Ness would be a miracle.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

Yes, Ness would probably be as weak as the 2003 stats show him to be without Smash Brothers, but anybody who expects for Master Hand to receive that kind of favor is out of their minds.

Then gety me a padded room.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

Who says he has to be as strong as Ness? He just has to be stronger than Kuja, who could very well be weak.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

I've seen your bracket. I reserved one for you weeks ago.

Heck, and even Fox McCloud is weaker than Ness, and he's got a more popular game than Earthbound AND being top tier in Super Smash Brothers Melee.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

From: Adept_Of_Aiur | Posted: 4/30/2005 4:48:58 PM | #383
Who says he has to be as strong as Ness? He just has to be stronger than Kuja, who could very well be weak.

You mean, you'd pick Ness over Kuja?

Someone get this guy some handcuffs.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

Who says he has to be as strong as Ness? He just has to be stronger than Kuja, who could very well be weak.

If Kuja is weaker than Ness, it won't be by very much at all. Master Hand wouldn't even lay a finger on Ness (har har, pun intended).
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

The character that sticks out in my mind most for being overestimated is Diablo, hands down.

---
“Thou hast lost thy friend before thine very eyes; there art no words to comfort thee.”

I'd pick Ness over Kuja, assuming my adjustment for SFF in Sephiroth/Auron is somewhat accurate.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

Heck, and even Fox McCloud is weaker than Ness, and he's got a more popular game than Earthbound AND being top tier in Super Smash Brothers Melee.

So... the less playable you are in SSBM, the better? Cause Master Hand is a lock if that's the case.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

You mean, you'd pick Ness over Kuja?

Yes.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

So... the less playable you are in SSBM, the better? Cause Master Hand is a lock if that's the case.

Did I say that? No, I didn't. I'm saying Fox has all of that going for him with Super Smash Brothers and yet he still doesn't benefit from it very much. Why somebody think a glove (whose only purpose is to be a boss fight that gets old after the second or third time) would net more favor is beyond me.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

And if Luigi gets noticeable help from Super Smash Brothers, I shudder to think of how weak he really is. But I just can't see the plumber being any lower than he is, with or without that game.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!

Did I say that? No, I didn't. I'm saying Fox has all of that going for him with Super Smash Brothers and yet he still doesn't benefit from it very much. Why somebody think a glove (whose only purpose is to be a boss fight that gets old after the second or third time) would net more favor is beyond me.

So basically, Master Hand may get anywhere from tons of popularity from SSB and SSBM ala Ness, or absolutely none, like Luigi. I'm going to bet he gets more than less.

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

One could argue it's EB that did very little for Ness, not SSB/M. One could also argue Ness is right up there with Donkey Kong and Luigi, if you believe Scorpion remained steady from 2k3 to 2k4. Luigi and DK could comfortably beat Kefka (not saying it'd be a blow-out, let that be clear)...and I think that leaves enough room for error when I believe Kefka > Sin > Kuja and Master Hand has enough exposure and will get enough votes to be not so far behind from Ness (though I have no exact value in my head about where he'd be right now).

Now, I think Scorpion DID drop a lil', and just because I think Kefka > Sin > Kuja doesn't mean I think Kuja'd get smoked by Kefka, but I still find it unreasonable to completely pass off MH like what I've seen...

...but why Kuja is over-rated? True, I think Kuja/MH is 50/50 (though it won't be a close match either way, I don't think) and I think the winner of Robotnik/Sin will beat the winner of Kuja/MH, but there's a large majority of people with Kuja in their brackets on this board getting to Ganondorf (and the BOP, too), and I've heard afew times that Kuja will impress against Ganon. He won't do that, methinks, and the fact that he's bein' such a huge favorite in his four-pack when any of the three COULD beat him makes me think he's bein' over-rated.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

I wouldn't dare take Ness over Kuja. That just seems ridiculous to me.

---
“Thou hast lost thy friend before thine very eyes; there art no words to comfort thee.”

The character that sticks out in my mind most for being overestimated is Diablo, hands down.
Not only is Diablo overestimated, but he's underestimated, as well. People range from thinking Gordon Freeman would destroy him to thinking Diablo has a shot against Ganondorf. Sheesh...

Oh, and I REALLY doubt Luigi got any boost from SSBM.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

I wouldn't dare take Ness over Kuja. That just seems ridiculous to me.

To be honest, I don't think either you or I saying a pick seems ridiculous can come off not sounding hypocritical... >>;;

Heil Dweebenheimer!!! For I am MasterMage119!!!

I also think taking Ness over Kuja is absurd.

PSX Final Fantasy games are not obscure and are not hated.
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"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease." -- The Art of War

Ness, by my reckoning, is right between Yuna and Kefka, and I'd take both over Kuja.
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Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

Well, FFVIII is generally considered the most hated, but that doesn't stop Squall from being one of the strongest FF reps.
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Can't keep a good man down, baby!