And all this time you were telling me Sin was a virtual lock...
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I was having some fun. ^_^

In accordance to the prophecy, Dweebenheimer!
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Yes, this is MasterMage119.

Well, at least you're looking somewhat better.

Still getting sunk by having Kuja lose two rounds too early though.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Robotnik is taking trhat fourpack.
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______ _______ prayed.
Giygas took 9999999 damage!

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

What the hell are you talking about Sin>Master Hand? Robotnik is winning that four-pack.

In accordance to the prophecy, Dweebenheimer!
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Yes, this is MasterMage119.

Robotnik > Sin > Master Hand > Kuja, if I have any say in this. If not, I shall leave quitely...

*sneaks out*

...Ocelot's potential duelity (sp?) is interesting to think about though; I mean, not sure if this is a fair comparison or not since I haven't played KH, but it worked for Squall as far as I figure.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Robotnik is currently in my bracket as the winner, too. Granted that was the preliminary first run through, but gut instincts and all that jazz.

Now in considering Bowser Solid/Liquid/Ocelot, I'm not sure how well any numbers would influence my own pick, because Bowser over solid isn't a HUGE upset, and he would be my pick over both liquid and ocelot.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

Robotnik has no chance to survive, make his time. All his votes are belong to Sin.

~*The Metal Gear Master*~
---<3---
SpC2K5 Statistics: 0/0 --- Bowser Koopa vs Pyramid Head
The Author of Metal Gear Solid: Dawn of the Concealed ... Coming Soon ...

What do you guys think of the comparison Kuja : Vivi :: Dr. Robotnik : Knuckles? I'd guess that Kuja would be slightly closer to Vivi than Robotnik is to Knuckles, but not by a whole lot. If that's the case, then Robotnik could give Kuja a run for his money - Vivi would be expected to get, if my calculations are correct, 50.56% against Knuckles using the SFF-adjusted standings.
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For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

Truthfully, I think Robutt is a bigger problem for Sin than Kuja. Sin could probably stomp a hole through Kuja.

~*ST*~
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Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

^Bingo. Whoever wins Robotnik/Sin will beat Kuja/MH, I do believe.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

That is one of the worst analogies ever made. You cannot possibly think Ridley is to Nintendo as Diablo is to Blizzard.

I wasn't the one who brought up which companies made who.

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“Booster has such a nice place…I miss my fortress…I miss the good old days…Toadstool screaming in terror, Mario rushing in to save her…”

I think Kuja won't have trouble making it to Ganon, myself.

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“Booster has such a nice place…I miss my fortress…I miss the good old days…Toadstool screaming in terror, Mario rushing in to save her…”

... I'm still waiting to see why Kuja is going to lose to before Ganondorf.. >_>
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

So am I. The only one you could make an interesting case for is Eggman, but I don't think it'll work out.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

... I have trouble taking him (Robotnik) seriously, just because he is so annoyingly stupid and incompetent. Yes, I know I shouldn't base things off of that. >_>
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

I love him for that exact reason, strangely enough.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

... How can you love him? It shouldn't be humanly possible. >_>
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

I'd love to know just how often he faces Sonic and pals and ultimately loses.

I know, I'm going to count 'em.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

Lord knows he's lost a LOT of times to them. Regardless, Dr.Robotnik rules.

Holy Jesus, am I ever hating this keyboard here on a public computer; I have to slam downon its sweet spot for any success...yes, just like your mom.
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Yes, the rumors are true: the CIA could only handle my user-name for so long.

Sonic the Hedgehog: 6 times
Sonic the Hedgehog 2: 10 times
Sonic 3 & Knuckles: 15 times
Sonic CD: 6 times
Sonic Spinball: 1 time
Sonic the Hedgehog (GG): 5 times
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (GG): 1 time
Sonic Chaos: 1 time
Sonic Triple Trouble: 5 times
Sonic Blast (GG): 6 times
Sonic 3D Blast: 8 times
Sonic Adventure: 3 times
Sonic Adventure 2: 2 times
Sonic Heroes: Never, technically
Sonic Advance: 9 times
Sonic Advance 2: 16 times
Sonic Advance 3: 9 times
Sonic Battle: 2 times

I may be missing some games, and some I didn't know so I checked FAQs, so the numbers may be slightly off. That's only for Eggman himself, not his robots like in, say, Sonic 2 GG. Total between these games: 105 times. Ouch. That's a LOT of pummeling he took.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

People shouldn't really compare Kuja to Vivi, mainly because Vivi is a horrible measuring stick, because the only matches we have data on with him are against one of the most notoriously inconsistent performers (DK) and SFF (Sephiroth). Vivi's strength is just a guess.
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I'm like a mentally insane girl who keeps running back to her abusive boyfriend. ~ Mars
ZSB [aX]

Only to be outdone by Bowser and family, surely.....
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Yes, the rumors are true: the CIA could only handle my user-name for so long.

Actually, I seriously doubt even Bowser lost that many fights, because you fight him much less than you do Eggman.
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SpC2K5 Elite 8
BOWSER, Ocelot, SEPHIROTH, Liquid, KEFKA, Ridley, GANONDORF, Kuja

Thus, Bowser and family...but even then, I wouldn't be shocked if Dr. Robotnik still got beat more, heh.
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Yes, the rumors are true: the CIA could only handle my user-name for so long.

so, you're willing to put your faith in a guy that has already lost 105 times? with a level of incompetence like that, how could you NOT expect Robotnik to lose, heh.

btw - you forgot Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and Tails' Adventure. i think those two would boost his number of beatings even higher.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=XStats&name2=Correct

Surprisingly accurate.
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"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
- Darth Vader

Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine is so awesome, we can forgive him for being beaten there. While we're at it, somebody just the other day (yesterday even, maybe?) said he was a goalie in a soccer game...so mark another one up for him. Let's throw in Sonic R...

...gettin' out of control.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Go Sin.
---
PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565(132 Signs!)

one of the most notoriously inconsistent performers (DK)

How is DK inconsistent? He got SFF'd to death by Mario in 2002, we know that much. Nothing seemed to be wrong with Vercetti's and Vyse's numbers in 2003. Their matches in 2004 were actually quite consistent with the previous year's numbers (well, except for Tommy-Max, where Max seems to have been affected by good ol' Sephy).
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"Impossible is a word people use to make themselves feel better when they give up." - Vyse the Legend

yeah, DK being called the master of choking is more accurate than being called inconsistent.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

DK could still be questioned by Vivi's performance though; between being in Sephiroth's four-pack (like Max was) combine with SFF and gettin' stomped unexpectantly hard, one would have reason to believe DK wasn't so consistant between 2k3 and 2k4. I mean, afterall, would you think Vivi would be on par with Squall and almost at Aeris's level?

I think DK's consistant for the most part, but it could still be argued, methinks.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

heh, 105 times. I will still go with Sin. Although I know that Seymour would be even better, if Sin was nominated more than Seymour is because of something. So I think there's enough reason to put Sin over Dr.Robotnik.
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If B8 was an actual place, every now and then someone would hold up a large poster of LUEshi and then be escorted out of the building by CJayC-C Bar

I mean, afterall, would you think Vivi would be on par with Squall and almost at Aeris's level?

Of course since the Black Mage Factor accounts for half of his popularity. Who cares what game he comes from? That doesn't matter.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I mean, afterall, would you think Vivi would be on par with Squall and almost at Aeris's level?
Uh, why wouldn't he be?
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"I AM THE BLACK MAGE! I CASTS THE MAGIC SPELLS THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!" RPGE777:ChocoCid

Duh, because of the Black Mage Factor. Come on, it's so obvious that nobody has played Final Fantasy IX, and those who did don't care about it. There's no way possible that one of its characters could be that strong of his own merit.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

What's so wrong with Vivi being a favorite of FF fans? I mean he IS a likeable character... and it's not like his FF is OBSCURE by any means. It just sold less...

And I haven't even TOUCHED on the fact that he is a Black Mage, and modeled to traditionally look as such. I was actually surprised that people thought DK would win.... Cloud beating Link in 2k3 was a much bigger shocker for me, actually.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Cloud beating Link shouldn't have been that much of a shocker after seeing Cloud beat the living crap out of Sonic, and outdoing Link's percentage on Samus.

Granted, we didn't know that Samus had actually grown stronger at the time, but when Cloud outdid Link's performance by that much against an opponent thought to be Samus's equal, warning signs should've immediately gone up.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Note I said it was a bigger shocker than Vivi over DK. I was more talking about my LACK of shock for that match. I was just using Cloud/Link as a reference...
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Vivi is just freaking awesome.
he's an awesome character in his game.
*shrug*
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"I AM THE BLACK MAGE! I CASTS THE MAGIC SPELLS THAT MAKES THE PEOPLES FALL DOWN!" RPGE777:ChocoCid

True enough. The margin of victory surprised me more than the fact that Vivi won.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Nope. 55-45 was what I was expecting. I was hoping for Vivi to be even STRONGER, but that was just wishful thinking. Regardless on people not knowing him or recognizing the name, I figured once people saw who he was and that he was facing the likes of DK, the match was over.
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Graduation: April 30, 2005 "There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

"I mean, afterall, would you think Vivi would be on par with Squall and almost at Aeris's level?"

Yes, yes I would, as a matter of fact.
---
Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Leonhart, get over the black mage factor. To say that it played a negligible role in Vivi's strength is quite ludicrous, really.
---
In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

To say that it played a negligible role in Vivi's strength is quite ludicrous, really.

To say that it played a serious role is Vivi's strength is ridiculous, if you ask me. There's absolutely no way to substantiate any claim that being a black mage helped him.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Oh, and I hate to say it, but Zidane might still be higher than Vivi in an actual contest. Sure, he doesn't have the nomination support to make it in, but lead characters are lead characters, no matter how crappy people say they are.

Anywya, that's not at all relevant, what is is this: people who are underestimating Kuja are doing so for all the wrong reasons. The weakest square characters have still been in the 20s at worst. Kuja isn't going to be all that low.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

To say that it played a serious role is Vivi's strength is ridiculous, if you ask me. There's absolutely no way to substantiate any claim that being a black mage helped him.

We have no data, only logic. And logical analysis of data is always more powerful than pure logic.

However the logic itself seems pretty self-evident.
*A huge portion of RPG fans love black mages.
*Most RPG fans have not heard of, or are not overly familiar with, Vivi.
*Vivi is a black mage.

Really, pretty much everybody loves black mages. To think that being the representation of something so iconic would not have a signficant impact defies sense.

You can say that Vivi's intrinisic strength is what relies on him being a black mage; that this is a part of his core Final Fantasy IX appeal. However there is almost certainly a non-trivial black mage appeal that goes above and beyond this, that gives Vivi an appeal to those who are not familiar with Vivi the character.
---
In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

"*Most RPG fans have not heard of, or are not overly familiar with, Vivi."

That's just plain too stupid for someone such as yourself. You're trying to tell me that a game that sold millions is unkown to most of the people who'd buy that game? Or are you trying to tell me that they don't know of the first character who appears and is controlable in that game? Don't be rediculous, you're making yourslef look far less credible then I know you are.

"*A huge portion of RPG fans love black mages."

We'll take the term "most" here to just be a majority, a mere 50.1%. If 2 of the three highest selling FF titles lack any Black Mages whatsoever, and the other of those three has the least traditional looking black mage of the series how can most rpg fans even know what a black mage is when most of them haven't played the highest selling game that features a traditional looking black mage? We're talking about the 5th best selling game Square has had in north america, and you're trying to tell me people haven't played it but they played games that have sold far, far less and have become more aware or Black Mages through those games? Give me a friggin' break.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

So anyway, more on this common "no one played FF9 fallacy" and the thought that Vivi gained votes for being the iconic blakc mage character type. Final Fantasies known to playstation owners as tactics, chroncles, and anothogies have a combined total sales figure equal to the one known as IX. Let me repeat. FFT sold .75, FFA .365, and FFC .26 for a combined total of 1.375 Million. Final Fantasy 9 sold 1.34 million on its own.

Chances are most people who own a copy of C also own a copy of A and also own a copy of T AND very likely own a copy of Final Fantasy 9 and know those people are very well aware of what a Black Mage is, but there are no less than 600,000 people who own 9 and not Tactics, 1 million who own 9 but not Anthologies, 1.1 million who own 9 but not Chronicles.

You're seriously telling me that on a site where the largest group of players grew up on the playstation generation of gaming that somehow the game that sold more out of all those would have the least influence on their knowledge of Black Mages?

You're telling me that those 600,000 people (assuming they all came here to vote) that never owned Tactics (or any other FF game featuring traditional black mages) but have a copy of FF9 are going to vote vote Vivi because of some intangible Black Mage Factor that doesn't apply to them?

Be realistic here, people. You underestimated Vivi last year not because of some Black Mage factor but because you can't get it through your skull that FF9 is the 5th best selling game Square has had in the US, the region that counts the most here. This is an RPG centric site and you think that even a majority of the visitiors somehow missed on the 4th best selling Final Fantasy? What, because it was so close to the release of the PS2? That may have hurt sales, sure, but the game still sold 1.34 million! That's more than Devil May Cry, for god's sake, and I don't hear any of you arguing that nobody knows who Dante is. Seriously, stop arguing about people not knowing about FF9 on RPGfaqs, you look like a dumb ass when you do.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.