Mystere is awesome. For example, his battle quotes:
"You need a spanking!"
"Discipline feels good! Hahah!"
"Sample my goods!"
Ronfar is my favorite L2 character, though. "Happy hour!"
And I need to finish up Suikoden so I can finally play Suikoden II.
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Mega Magic Flame!

I wanna push my luck here with a potential situation; what if the Half-Life series is more popular here than the Diablo series*? If we were to try to convert from there, consider Gordon Freeman's strength...and he's the hero of his game (to be fair, you should probably add a lil' to account for HL2). Now, Diablo's the villain of his game...even with his name being in the series' title, that could look pretty bad on his part. I think both of them have had their faces on their boxes, too, so I wouldn't account for that factor any unless I'm wrong on that.

* = This, while tough to believe, COULD be possible now that HL2 is out. We know it's popular, and I understand more focus/attention is given to Gordon this time around. Diablo 2's definitely lasted the test of time here if you go by the message board days it's got though, so it's probably got the advantage...but don't completely rule this situation out.
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Which is another reason why I would take Sin over Kuja; I don't think there's any FF9 characters in KH, though I've heard there are some black mages.

That's still just being ridiculous and assuming more sales = more popularity.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Actually, my reasons for having Diablo taking down Ridley through Kefka are simple:

-Diablo is Blizzard
-Diablo II is the 37th on the Top 50 FAQs list.
-Diablo II has been on the top 50 longer than any other game with the exception of FF7 and OoT.
-Look at the amount of topics on the Diablo and Diablo II boards.
-The name "Diablo" is FAR more recognizable, video game or otherwise, than the name "Ridley."

Diablo's got it in the bag.
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It’s square, called the GameCube, and is purple. Sure, that means royalty in Japan, but in America it means Tinky Winky. -Heroic Mario

-Diablo is Blizzard

And Ridley is Nintendo. I think it is rather obvious which one holds the stronger set of characters/games. The other reasoning you provided has been brought up in the past to try at helping other games/characters and the said game/character usually ended up receiving nothing in the way of a boost or lost the match it was involved in.

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No one knows Ridley’s origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name “Ridley.”

I'm not assuming sales so much as exposure and new fans in that instance. Just as how I believe it was you that said characters got their newfound strength from having KH fans interested in the characters' FF games, I'm saying that FF9 would be gettin' very little of that support due to not having any characters in KH. Meanwhile, Tidus would; even if he just had a short role, it's been said he was in it early and couldn't be missed, then if somebody was interested in checkin' out an FF game, FFX was the most recent one and the only one on the PS2.

Yes, yes, I know the PS2 can play PS1 games, but I don't think that'd cancel that point out anyways.
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So you think these new fans just so happened to skip over Final Fantasy IX just because it didn't have any characters in the game? So you're telling me that Vivi would have been that ridiculously strong even in 2002, stronger than Squall, as strong as Aeris, and barely weaker than Tidus?

I really doubt it.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I'm saying it wouldn't be their first choice. I know I'd be more interested in seeing the original games of characters I know I liked first before I saw the original characters of characters I don't know.
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Answer the question: You think Vivi would be nearly equal to Aeris had he been in the contest in 2002?
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Ahem, the original games of characters I don't know.
---
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I'm gonna say almost, simply due to the ass-whipping DK took last year. By no means would he beat Aeris head-to-head, but I think I really under-estimated how big a factor being "the embodiment of the black mage" would be...he probably would be close to Aeris in 2002. I don't it coming off like I don't think people DIDN'T check out FF9 after KH though...but I see little reason to check it out before FF7, FF8, and/or FFX if you liked the characters that were shown in KH. So FF9 probably got the least help.

Now, do you think FF9 got as much help from KH as FFX? FF7? FF8?
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I'm not assuming sales so much as exposure and new fans in that instance. Just as how I believe it was you that said characters got their newfound strength from having KH fans interested in the characters' FF games, I'm saying that FF9 would be gettin' very little of that support due to not having any characters in KH. Meanwhile, Tidus would; even if he just had a short role, it's been said he was in it early and couldn't be missed, then if somebody was interested in checkin' out an FF game, FFX was the most recent one and the only one on the PS2.

Yes, yes, I know the PS2 can play PS1 games, but I don't think that'd cancel that point out anyways.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=20436659

FFVIII and FFIX both sold ~4500 copies in March. I think it's fair to say that they're still gaining fans.

I'm saying it's a bit ridiculous to say that Final Fantasy IX didn't get any at all. Considering the boost that the characters got, I don't think it'd be farfetched to imagine these new fans became fans of the series in general.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

It's actually quite a bit more than that. That's just how much money Square made off of the sales.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

But what about Kefka? Or Crono? If you're saying KH helped the FF series in general, shouldn't we say it only applied to new school FF?

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

These newbie gamers are graphic whores. They don't care about the old school games. Everybody knows that.

.....
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

No doubt it got some; I just doubt as much as the others. As for the about-equal sales right now, considering the hype of KH is gone now, I figure they'd be evening out now. When it first came out though, I'd guess FF8 started to outsell FF9.

Besides, would this not help out FF3/6 and Kefka?
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Final Fantasy VIII has always outsold Final Fantasy IX. Heck, for a while, it had more sales than Final Fantasy VII (in Japan, at least).

But the ONLY argument I've heard from anybody as to why Master Hand or Sin would beat Kuja is that apparently, nobody played Final Fantasy IX.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

man you guys need to give it a rest with this diablo vs. ridley crap. albedo vs. m.bison is a much more interesting match. argue about that. seriously though, i'm not changing my mind on the first one, so i may as well get people to argue about something that i still might change my mind on.
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Mario Sunshine-120 Shines || BtT 3:34.70 || HRC 37,592.3 ||

That's why I'd give Sin the win, yeah. For Master Hand, I've laid my arguements out already, and I didn't ever say he'd win because nobody knows Kuja or FF9.
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

But apparently, if Vivi got no help from Kingdom Hearts whatsoever, your "Sin would beat Kuja because it's from FFX and that game is more popular" argument goes out the window because that would make a secondary character from FFIX as popular as the main character of FFX before the boost.

Either way, we're talking relative amounts of popularity. At this point, it doesn't really matter because we're talking about the vast majority of voters knowing all characters.

The FF fanbase will NOT (and I repeat for emphasis, will NOT) prefer a giant whale to Kuja.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Final Fantasy VIII has always outsold Final Fantasy IX. Heck, for a while, it had more sales than Final Fantasy VII (in Japan, at least).

Close, but not quite. According to Square, by November 2002:

Final Fantasy VII
Total: 9.20 million
Japan: 3.88 million
Oversea: 5.32 million

Final Fantasy VIII
Total: 8.04 million
Japan: 3.69 million
Oversea: 4.35 million

Final Fantasy IX
Total: 4.98 million
Japan: 2.79 million
Oversea: 2.19 million

Poor FFIX got screwed by being released so close to the PS2's launch, methinks. =(


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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Not necessarily; I already stated I think I under-estimated the supposed Black Mage Factor, thus giving him alot of his strength.

As for the fanbase, it remains to be seen. I'm not educated on their characters well, but I do remember how many people said and think Magus > Crono despite the fact all signs led to Crono winning. I know they're different games so it's not exactly the best guideline, but it certainly makes me wary to think otherwise for now when FFX has shown its strength in both the game and its characters while being the FF game of this generation. I do wanna be spoiled on Kuja real good sometime though; I've already ruined alot of FFX for me, so I'd like to hear about Kuja some more.
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Poor FFIX got screwed by being released so close to the PS2's launch, methinks. =(

Which makes me ask how badly this could affect the upcoming LoZ game.
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Due to cyko's and Chichiri's comments, I will try to play the Lunar games at some point. They've been added to my list.


Which makes me ask how badly this could affect the upcoming LoZ game.

Not much I have to say, considering that it has been THE game people have been anticipating for months now. It's #1 in EGM's antipication list every month, for instance.

The next-generation thing will definitely hurt the game's sales compared to what they would have been had the same game been released earlier in the GC's life cycle; however, it'll still sell great. People are drooling over this game, post-maturity system or no.
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

Vivi benefitting somehow from Kingdom Hearts is utterly nonsensical.
---
In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

man you guys need to give it a rest with this diablo vs. ridley crap. albedo vs. m.bison is a much more interesting match.

Diablo vs. Ridley is very tough to call, and has a good shot at deciding the division.

IMO it would be absolutely shocking to see Bison lose to Albedo, and it's unlikely (though certainly not impossible) for Bison to win the division.

Diablo vs. Ridley probably merits the attention it's been getting.
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

Which makes me ask how badly this could affect the upcoming LoZ game.

The game should have sold the large majority of its total amount by the time the Revolution releases. Add to the fact that Nintendo is sure to drop the price of the game once the Revolution launches - effectively giving people buying a Revolution a chance at playing the Zelda on that system - and you have yourself a game that will sell quite well. There are little to no doubts in my mind that this game will be the highest selling GameCube game within months of its release. SSBM is going bye-bye.

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No one knows Ridley’s origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name “Ridley.”

Even if it sells more, it still has a LONG way to go to be better than ssbm.

Also, leonhart, I'm not convinced by this argument but another reason why master hand can beat kuja is because he's the villain from super smash brothers. He gets their support and it doesn't take much to win.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

The Suikoden series is on my (very, very long) list of "games to play at some point in my life".

You could save some time and only put Suikoden II on your list of games to play. The others are fine, but nothing that special. Suikoden II, though, should be near the top of your list.

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SC2k4 Oracle ranking: 4th
Supporting CATS and Ultros in the Spring Contest.

By the way, I agree with tnote in that Luca was the most satisfying villain to kill in any game I've played. He's extremely evil, and battle where you finally face him is awesome.
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SC2k4 Oracle ranking: 4th
Supporting CATS and Ultros in the Spring Contest.

Those FF sales only mean something if there would be more than 8 million votes in the match....

Most people who (don't dislike RPGs) visit gamefaqs have played FFIX , me thinks...

The most interest thing I noticed from the BOP so far is that the people who think Diablo is going to beat Ridley are taking him further, on average, than the people who think Ridley is going to beat Diablo.

Ironically, the same thing happened to Starcraft and Halo last year. Halo had twice the bracket support through the first round, but the Starcraft diehards were much more prompt to put their game over Kingdom Hearts.

On a side note, weird how I'm probably among the biggest Diablo supporter here, but I picked Ridley and will vote for Ridley. I hate even your good match ideas, CJayC.


From: CaptainFlufflez | Posted: 4/17/2005 2:44:07 AM | #219
man you guys need to give it a rest with this diablo vs. ridley crap. albedo vs. m.bison is a much more interesting match. argue about that. seriously though, i'm not changing my mind on the first one, so i may as well get people to argue about something that i still might change my mind on.

Woo, someone's desperate to get Albedo some support going. Face it, Albedo's not winning that one, unless Jesus comes back down to earth and kills everyone for liking a dude whose name sounds like Mike Tyson The Evil Ear-Muncher's.
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SpC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ridley, Eggman, Dark Samus, Mario, DK, CATS, Kerrigan

As we speak, I'm in the middle of...acquiring...the Sega CD version of Lunar: Silver Star. Let's see if it's all it's cracked up to be.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Also, leonhart, I'm not convinced by this argument but another reason why master hand can beat kuja is because he's the villain from super smash brothers. He gets their support and it doesn't take much to win.

Done been said, his arguement's gonna be that Kuja's the villain of FF9 and will get the support of FF fans since most/all FF fans (and KH ones too) have played FF9, in a nutshell. Of course, he can say it better than I can.
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I seriously, seriously doubt that he (Master Hand) will get their support. He sure as hell won't get my support, unless he was facing a character who I truly hated.
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

It's not like he'll get all their support, of course he won't, but I don't see why he won't be getting plenty of it. I suspect MH'll beat Kuja in a close one, though it can certainly go the other way too.
---
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I'm well aware that you didn't mean that - I just don't think he'll even get 40% (Yes, I'm pulling a random number out of my ass) of the support that SSBM gets. He's just a glove...
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Oh, and I know none of us can actually prove anything of this. But I just found out why Chichiri argues about it so much:

He gets to do the "I Pwned You" dance if he is correct. And does he ever love the I Pwned You dance! =)

http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=ChichiriMuyo&name2=I+Pwned+You+Dance

^_^
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=Kuja&name2=Master+Hand

Uh-oh...it's gonna be heavily heated when that match comes around.


Seriously though, time will tell on that match; I think MH can pull it out (and I am certain Kuja/MH will be a closer match than people are giving it credit for, whether my bracket's right or wrong), though Kuja can win it too. I simply find it weird that people are bein' very quick to support Diablo after what happened in the Spring Contest last year with the likely-stronger Starcraft, yet hardly anybody's jumping on the MH-boat after what SSBM did.

Yes, yes, I know games =/= characters, but it's still worth a thought.
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I think it goes beyond "games =/= characters". I have a very hard time believing that Master Hand will get a sizeable enough portion of the SSBM vote to beat Kuja. I believe that Ridley isn't nearly as well known as certain people think he is and I honestly would have him around Tails or Kefka. Diablo, I'm guessing just slightly above that. =\
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Yeah, I've got Ridley pegged at Tails too, though I have Diablo just under that.
---
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[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Hmm, a few points to bring up...

I agree with whoever compared Diablo's likely strength when compared to his game to Gordon Freeman's.

I still say that an addition of 50,000 new voters to the summer contest may have helped out the FF characters a bit in 2003. Now we're starting to get ridiculous with this "KH Factor"... I mean, applying it to VIVI?

Sin is from a more popular game in the FF series than Kuja is. That gives him a huge advantage right off the bat. And to all the people saying "C'mon, the RPG fanbase wouldn't support a giant whale over a well-liked sadistic poet"... Well, remember the arguments we made a year back for Magus over Crono? I wouldn't put it past the Square fanbase to vote Sin over Kuja.
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http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=20388161 - The GameFAQs Fanfiction Project, based off of the Spring Contest!

http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=Sin&name2=Lavos

Aw.
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http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=20388161 - The GameFAQs Fanfiction Project, based off of the Spring Contest!

I agree with whoever compared Diablo's likely strength when compared to his game to Gordon Freeman's.

That'd be me. Bingo #1, though I only say it's a possibility since we don't know for sure how the Diablo series matches up with the Half-life series.

I still say that an addition of 50,000 new voters to the summer contest may have helped out the FF characters a bit in 2003. Now we're starting to get ridiculous with this "KH Factor"... I mean, applying it to VIVI?

Bingo #2, although I'm not entirely sure about the 50,000 new voters being as in-favor for FF characters as we think; are we to assume FF took a drop in support in 2k4 then?

Sin is from a more popular game in the FF series than Kuja is. That gives him a huge advantage right off the bat. And to all the people saying "C'mon, the RPG fanbase wouldn't support a giant whale over a well-liked sadistic poet"... Well, remember the arguments we made a year back for Magus over Crono? I wouldn't put it past the Square fanbase to vote Sin over Kuja.

Bingo #3; it COULD happen, of course, since it's more likely than Magus over Crono (and isn't the exact same kind of position, to be fair)...but the odds are still against Kuja methinks.
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Well, it's possible that FF did take a drop in the support for similar reasoning, because there was a huge change in the voter pool from 2k3 to 2k4 too. Hopefully, the 2k4 numbers and the 2k5 numbers will end up being similar (or better yet, the 2k3 numbers and the 2k5 numbers will end up bein similar) so we'll have more potentially valid data to look at.

Also:

http://www.lovecalculator.com/love.php?name1=Lavos&name2=Master+Hand

Sin's gonna be pissed when he walks in on this one.
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http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=20388161 - The GameFAQs Fanfiction Project, based off of the Spring Contest!

*cues porno music*

Heh...that gosh-darn Love Calculator.
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