We don't have to make a big deal over this...everything is quite accurate, anyway. They won't be more than a percent off.

Now, if we're getting REALLY nitpicky here, I don't think Mario would be a good base, as Mario grew .61% from '02 to '03, and using him as a constant every year seems to throw everything off slightly.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Favorites Bracket:

Round 1

Bowser
Sigma
Revolver Ocelot
Dr. Wily

Ramirez
Ghaleon
Lavos
Liquid Snake

Mithos
Luca Blight
M. Bison
Ridley

Giygas
CATS
Dr. Robotnik
Kuja

Round 2

Sigma
Revolver Ocelot

Ghaleon
Lavos

Luca Blight
M. Bison

Giygas
Kuja

Quarterfinals

Revolver Ocelot
Ghaleon
Luca Blight
Kuja (50.1%-49.9%)

Semifinals

Ghaleon
Luca Blight

Finals

...I can't decide. Ghaleon is the best character ever, Luca is the best villian ever. If it's a character contest of villians, Ghaleon wins. If it's a best villian ever contest, Luca wins.
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Preparedness prevents piss poor performance.
"You're still an idiot. Me getting moderated won't help that." - Lucid Faia

The Suikoden series is on my (very, very long) list of "games to play at some point in my life".

Should the Lunar games be also? The reviews I've seen for them haven't been all that outstanding, but they sure seem to have a following around here. Or is that just Ghaleon worship?
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

But the characters didn't get boosts solely from being in Kingdom Hearts. They got boosts because people hearing about them for the first time played their games. Otherwise, how in the world could you possibly explain Tidus getting a KH boost, considering he's in the game for all of 5 minutes?

people have always seemed to be so quick to accept this, but there's really no evidence for it at all. I think they *did* get boosts solely for being characters in kingdom hearts, and I don't think people needed to go out and play their games just to vote for them. Also, if Tidus made such a weak appearance in the game, why would you go out and buy the game he's in if he was such a nonimportant character in kingdom hearts?

Tidus may only have five minutes of fame, but those five minutes come in the very beginning of the game. Meaning he's one of the first people you meet, and one that just about everyone has to see. He's unavoidable.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

Also, if Tidus made such a weak appearance in the game, why would you go out and buy the game he's in if he was such a nonimportant character in kingdom hearts?

It's not that people went out and played FFX because of about Tidus...it's the fact that people got some familiarity with Final Fantasy with this game, and wanted to experience some an actual Final Fantasy game. FFX was the big Final Fantasy at that time, so it would be most likely for them to try that game first.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Which is another reason why I would take Sin over Kuja; I don't think there's any FF9 characters in KH, though I've heard there are some black mages.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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I guess ffx would be their first pick, but it's not that much further away logically for them to just go and pick up the game that has four of its reps in the game, that being ff7 with seph, cloud, aeris, and yuffie. I just dont' see the necessity for them to have played ffx to vote for tidus. Sure it's a cameo, but a cameo in a great game at least makes you known to more people, and that could translate into votes.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

Here's a bracket I arranged by mixing up the divisions:

1)Bowser vs. 8)Pyramid Head
4)Ghaleon vs. 5)Albert Wesker
3)Revolver Ocelot vs. 6)Mother Brain
2)Liquid Snake vs. 7)Master Hand

1)Ganondorf vs. 8)Giygas
4)Ansem vs. 5)Andross
3)Lavos vs. 6)Nightmare
2)Dr. Wily vs. 7)Ultros

1)Sephiroth vs. 8)Ramirez
4)Luca Blight vs. 5)CATS
3)Dr. Robotnik vs. 6)Sin
2)Kuja vs. 7)Officer Tenpenny

1)Kefka vs. 8)Mithos
4)Sigma vs. 5)Vergil
3)Albedo vs. 6)M. Bison
2)Ridley vs. 7)Diablo

Bah, see how much tougher this contest could've been? =p

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

1-Sephiroth
8-Mithos
4-Luca Blight
5-CATS
3-Lavos
6-Sin
2-Kuja
7-Diablo

1-Kefka
8-Pyramid Head
4-Vergil
5-Andross
3-Dr. Robotnik
6-M. Bison
2-Dr. Wily
7-Master Hand

1-Bowser
8-Giygas
4-Ansem
5-Ghaleon
3-Revolver Ocelot
6-Mother Brain
2-Liquid Snake
7-Ultros

1-Ganondorf
8-Ramirez
4-Sigma
5-Wesker
3-Albedo
6-Nemesis
2-Ridley
7-Officer Tenpenny


I've had this made afew days and just never used it.
---
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I just dont' see the necessity for them to have played ffx to vote for tidus.

Why would people play FFX so that they could vote for Tidus?
Or do you mean that you don't see why people would vote for Tidus after playing FFX, but not after playing KH? I sure can. I don't think anyone would care about Tidus just for seeing in KH. You can appreciate him far more in FFX.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Oops...I got the seedings of Ghaleon and Vergil mixed up. Oh, well.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

You also called Nemesis Nightmare. =P
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

heh, those are some more intersting brackets, Haste2 and HaRRicH.


creativename said:


Should the Lunar games be also? The reviews I've seen for them haven't been all that outstanding, but they sure seem to have a following around here. Or is that just Ghaleon worship?

yes. yes you should play the Lunar games. the battle system is mediocre and the leveling up and gameplay are pretty standard RPG fare. but the story is excellent and the entire game has one of the best sense of humor of any game out there. everything from the cinemas to the dialogue with the townspeople is hilarious. although, already knowing Ghaleon is a villain spoils some of the great plot twists of the first game, but it's still a great story. you should definitely play them at some point.

oh, and Mystere from Lunar 2 is beyond awesome.

although, i will admit that i did enjoy Suikoden 2 and 3 more than either Lunar game, so go play them all.



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oh, and as far as the Kingdom Hearts factor, i think it makes sense that the PS1 Final Fantasy characters would receive a boost because they were exposed to a whole new generation of players; players that may not have gotten into RPGs at that point and never knew what the fuss was about Cloud or Sephiroth or Squall. then, for example, some of people may have voted for the Cloud they liked in Kingdom Hearts and some may have liked him enough to go play his original game (FF7) and really enjoy his character even more. that totally makes sense to me.

i just can't explain why Tidus would receive a boost. he's the anomaly.

therefore, here is my alternate thery. between 2K2 and 2K3, we went from about 60,000 votes per match to about 100,000 votes per match. the Contest received an average increase of 40,000 more voters per match. that's a lot more people. i believe that it is possible that a larger portion of those new voters were Square fans. it's very possible that those new 40,000 voters didn't like characters by the same proportions that we were used to in 2K2.

hypothetical example: 100 people vote for a match between Link and Cloud. 60 of them like Link and 40 prefer Cloud. a year later, 50 more people show up to vote, but 15 of those new people vote for Link and 35 new people prefer Cloud. suddenly, they both have 75 votes each and went from a 60/40 split to a 50/50 split.

that's what i believe happened and why the majority of Square characters received such a big boost. Kingdom Hearts might have helped a little, but it may not have had anything to do with those Square characters. it's quite possible that of the 40,000 new voters we got, the majority of them were more inclined to be Square fans, therefore boosting the Square characters above their 2K2 numbers.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

I basically mean that it's possible for people to only play kingdom hearts and still vote for Tidus. At the most basic basic level, he still would have received votes had he only appeared in kingdom hearts and done nothing more.
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One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

From those two proposed brackets, I can see all of the following to be REALLY hard to decide, way harder than the current bracket:

Ghaleon vs. Albert Wesker
Ansem vs. Andross
Luca Blight vs. CATS
Dr. Robotnik vs. Sin

Lavos vs. Sin
Vergil vs. Andross
Dr. Robotnik vs. M. Bison
Ansem vs. Ghaleon
Albedo vs. Nemesis

Ugh, that would be one helluva contest.
---
For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

Heh, and those are just first-round matches, too.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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Everyone should pitch in $5 and get Konami to just make another 100k copies of Suikoden II. You know it would cost them next to nothing to do it. You gonna tell me they couldn't make money with a rerelease? The fact that probably 10 or so copies are sold every single day on eBay, with bid totals in the 20s on every single auction, says enough about how many people want to have a chance to play this game for less than $80.

I spent all summer trying to get this game on eBay and finally lucked into a buy-it-now auction for $70. Reread that phrase... LUCKED into paying $70 for a video game. Damn you Konami, let Luca get mainstream love!

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

And if Luca Blight ever lost to CATS, I think I would take a very short jump off of a very tall building.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

And that very short jump would turn into a very big fall. =P Luca would surely win, but I wouldn't expect a performance to be proud of either.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

CATS > Ganondorf, Magus > Luca, Ganondorf = Magus, therefore CATS > Luca.
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O, flesh, flesh, how art thou fishified! ~Mercutio

I am still holding out hope that Luca Blight can take out Wesker. If I am not mistaken, Suikoden II performed better than Resident Evil did, and if I am not mistaken, there would be little deviation if any, since Suikoden II lost to FF VII, whereas Resident Evil lost to the game that lost to FF VII. Anyone who has played Suikoden II knows that Luca makes that game. Wesker is one villain amongst many from the RE series. I know it is a pipe dream, but let me also hold out hope that this is, in fact, a villains contest, and someone would have a very difficult time of convincing me that Luca wouldn't do better in a Villains Contest than in a Character Contest (at worst, he would be the same).

I know a bunch of you probably think a contest is a contest, but I know to me that I like the Ghaleon as a character better than Luca, but Luca Blight is the best villain ever. The only villain I truly enjoyed defeating as much as Luca was Kefka, and that is because they are practically the same villain, in the sense that both senselessly slaughter innocent townspeople by the thousands for the sheer pleasure of it.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

" I don't think Mario would be a good base, as Mario grew .61% from '02 to '03,"

Only if you assume Link was stable. Some peopel don't. The problem with Mario is evrything up to his match with Cloud. that match and everyone before it is just odd.

"Should the Lunar games be also?"

Yes.

"oh, and Mystere from Lunar 2 is beyond awesome."

Hellz yeah. Leo is my favorite Lunar character, period, but that darn Mystere is as close as you can get to touching that greatness.

And Viktor, it's just not that likely to happen, no matter what we do to try to convince Konami. Thing is, Konami is very good about helping the fans out. They made Tokimeki Memorial 3 from money invested by fans, money that Konami said was necessary to make the game. The game turned out to be a huge success becase they knew how to give the fans what they wanted and how to get them involved to an extreme. Beatmania IIDX (DJ simulation game, very hard but fun) 6th style sold quite poorly, less than 20,000 copies. Konami was quite wary of releasing another game in the series but after they themselves opened up two petitions they promised to release 7th style if they could get 20k preorders (online only) in under a month which they did. If the fans swpeak up enough Konami will do something about it, the only problem is that there just won't be enough voices in favor of a SII re-release to make it happen.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

I Love Luca too, but both he and Ghaleon are going to tank. Book it, *****.
---
Not changing sig until I get more Love Hina (Started 12/22/04)
The Red9, the gun of real men.

I am still holding out hope that Luca Blight can take out Wesker. If I am not mistaken, Suikoden II performed better than Resident Evil did, and if I am not mistaken, there would be little deviation if any, since Suikoden II lost to FF VII, whereas Resident Evil lost to the game that lost to FF VII. Anyone who has played Suikoden II knows that Luca makes that game. Wesker is one villain amongst many from the RE series. I know it is a pipe dream, but let me also hold out hope that this is, in fact, a villains contest, and someone would have a very difficult time of convincing me that Luca wouldn't do better in a Villains Contest than in a Character Contest (at worst, he would be the same).

#44 Resident Evil 16.86%
...
#50 Suikoden II 14.37%

To be fair, Suikoden 2 was a 16-seed to keep essentially any bracket votes away and COULD have suffered some pretty minor kind of RPG-SFF...but you'd still be stretching to say it equaled RE's position in the stats. The stats aren't always right, but I'd take their word pretty certainly here.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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Suikoden 2 would be expected to get 42.62% against Resident Evil. plus, they were in the same half-division with no SFF matches between them, so those results seem reasonably accurate.

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1-Sephiroth
4-Luca Blight
3-Lavos
2-Kuja

1-Kefka
4-Vergil
3-Dr. Robotnik
2-Dr. Wily

1-Bowser
4-Ansem
3-Revolver Ocelot
2-Liquid Snake

1-Ganondorf
4-Sigma
3-Albedo
2-Ridley

1-Sephiroth
2-Kuja

1-Kefka
2-Dr. Wily

1-Bowser
2-Liquid Snake (ugh, tough)

1-Ganondorf
2-Ridley

1-Sephiroth
1-Kefka
1-Bowser
1-Ganondorf

1-Sephiroth
1-Ganondorf

Sephiroth

No offense, but I actually find this bracket easier. there is only one match when I have throw my hands up in frustration (LS v RO) and the rest, while posing some challenge, aren't that tough to pick. At least not to the degree of the real thing, I feel.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Luca won't tank; we already know how bad he is, heh. Ghaleon though, I completely agree with you, since I called him choking before the bracket was released.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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" plus, they were in the same half-division with no SFF matches between them,"

Unless you think there might be an RPG fanbase split. We can't be absolutely certin about S2 OR Luca.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Oops... never took the time to take to memory the X-Stats for Spring. I had thought Suikoden II had done a hair better than RE after MGS' drubbing, but I guess not. In any case, knowing that Suikoden II should get 42% on RE leads me to believe that there is no reason why Wesker should be able to do any better. But I guess we shall see.

I know Konami would never rerelease a 5+ year old game because of a couple thousand rabid fans, but a guy can hold out hope... (and not for me; I have my copy... I just think this is a game everyone should at least have the opportunity to play without dropping a benjamin.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

hmmmm.... i suppose that is possible. but then you could also say that Resident Evil suffered action game SFF, so it's kind of a wash.

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Actually, to make the dream a reality you'd prolly have to drop for a second copy anyway. :)
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

and hey, i'm still hoping Sega or anyone brings Dragon Force back over to America. anything could happen. *wishful thinking*

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No offense taken.

The RPG split will be minor if there is any; when I mentioned possible CT/SMRPG SFF, I wasn't even positive of that being true...and they're both Square-produced RPG's on the SNES. There would be less SFF than that from an FF7/S2 or Magus/Luca match, though there's not any shame in giving them a LIL' bit of extra credit against someone on their own level.
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If they keep it under $50 I would have no qualms about getting a new copy. I mean my $70 copy was with no instructions or original case... it was just the freakin' disc. Stupid laws of supply and demand.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

Well, I'm off to tackle my latest game of Xenogears. Later!
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Hey, even .1 in the XSt would be something, even if it was unnoticable. But yeah.. XG, now, bye.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Perhaps I will go down the road of delusion and say that the Suikoden II/FF VII match carried, oooh, 8% of SFF from the rabid RPG fans who will vote RPGs over anything else. Except, those same rabid fans, almost always, will vote anything FF VII. The same can be said for the Action SFF in RE/MGS, but which fanbase do you believe is larger and more rabid: RPGs or Action? You know, if I think about this enough I may be able to talk myself into a scenario where Luca might have a fighting chance...

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

Luca might win, but it'd be because of Wesker's weakness before it'd be because of Luca's strength.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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Just stopping by to say that Diablo will be taking down Kefka =P

Thats right, folks, Ridley's going down in round 1 =P
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It’s square, called the GameCube, and is purple. Sure, that means royalty in Japan, but in America it means Tinky Winky. -Heroic Mario

Ridley is the one who will be winning the Ruin Division.

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No one knows Ridley’s origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name “Ridley.”

Whoever wins Ridley/Diablo should win the division...of course, to each their own.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
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Perhaps I will go down the road of delusion and say that the Suikoden II/FF VII match carried, oooh, 8% of SFF from the rabid RPG fans who will vote RPGs over anything else.

Based on a poll taken on the board, almost 100%(may have even been 100%) of the people who have played Suikoden 2 like it more than FF7. A board poll may be a poor judge of how casual voters will vote, but considering the difficulty in getting the game they will make up a small portion of the Suikoden 2 fanbase. This at least suggests that the Suikden 2 fanbase is loyal and will not be SFF'd easily.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

That reminds me...

The most interest thing I noticed from the BOP so far is that the people who think Diablo is going to beat Ridley are taking him further, on average, than the people who think Ridley is going to beat Diablo.

I personally have Diablo in my Final Four, not as a result of what Starcraft did, but rather a result of what Half-Life did. Half-Life had no business keeping a match with Metroid Prime that close, and that, coupled with Doom's victory over Earthbound, means this site is not as anti-PC as we give it credit for. I am not saying PC is going to be taking down PS2 and Gamecube in a poll anytime soon, but this warrants mentioning. No matter what happens around half of us are going to be eliminated after that match.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

To play Devil's Advocate, I understand Doom was pretty successful on the SNES too. Regardless, I wanna ask this: which is more popular both in general and on GameFAQs, the Half-Life series or the Diablo series?
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Oh, and I've noticed that about the BOP too. It'll be interesting to see how that division turns out.
---
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I have never played either, but from what I am gathering the sales figures for Diablo seem astounding. Not to say that those for Doom are not, it is just that I haven't heard any figures, though the recent release of Doom3 no doubt will inflate those numbers.

And while we are at devil's advocate, let me sneak in there Diablo snuck onto the Playstation, but I don't know how well it did there.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts

Half-Life, I said. =P Also, to play some more devil's advocate, Starcraft found its way onto the N64...but not too many people remember it for that.
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LOL... oopsie. It is too late to think coherently. Now Half-Life I have played, and I would have to say, with complete bias, obviously, that Half-Life is more renown than Diablo.

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RIP: Tnote827 - 4/4/05
Fighting Illini (37-2): #2 in the nation, #1 in our hearts