I've already figured out the solution to the Princess Bride Conundrum of diablo/ridley. Set your bracket up so that no matter which one wins, you win the next round via the other person.

This is not necessarily a bad idea... if you believe three characters are about equal, pick the one who only has to win one 50-50 match instead of two. I came up with this idea last year regarding CT - LTTP - FF VI, and it turned out I was right.
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Supporting CATS and Ultros in the Spring Contest

that does seem like a fair estimate for Kerrigan. but i would like to point out that she is similar to Master Hand. yes, yes, i know she has character development (which Master Hand lacks. duh. i know that.), and some people think she looks pretty cool. but, she is still just a character in the story mode of a game that is mostly known and loved for its multiplayer, just like Master Hand.

now, i'm not saying Master Hand would beat Kerrigan. heck, i'm not convinced he can beat Kuja either. but i am saying that if Kerrigan can draw from Starcraft, then Master Hand can draw from SSBM.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

Kerrigan has one thing going for her:

She's an actual character with development that people have a reason to care about and like.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

It's a little difference. You need to play SSBM's Single Player to unlock things. Well, you basically need to. A lot of people never touch SC's campaign.

In accordance to the prophecy, Dweebenheimer!
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Yes, this is MasterMage119.

A lot of people never touch SC's campaign.

...
That's completely ridiculous...
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SpC2k4 - Triple Crown Winner! (Spread Betting, Betting, Oracle)
SC2k4 - 12th place!

plus, Master Hand is Nintendo, and he's from Nintendo's biggest game this generation and one of Nintendo's biggest games last generation. it's not like he's from some obscure fighting game or some underappreciated company. Master Hand is no joke. he may not beat Kuja, but he is certainly no joke.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

Thank you very much for that, cyko. Quite the interesting list, and I agree with you, the characters that scare me are the ones who managed to make it in/get good seeds even without the Board 8 support. I'd say that our making up 1/3 of the votes is even a little conservative... with CATS in at a 5, I could see that % being closer to 1/2.

Now, assuming non-Board 8ers to be the Casuals, and that these same Casuals make up 98% of the final voting, and that because of this you ought to most fear the characters who were most popular amongst these same casuals... THEN, these are the


Characters to Fear

Vergil - 8-4 = 4(!) spot Casual jump
Lavos - 6-3= 3 spot jump
Sephiroth - 3-1= 2 spots
Sigma - 6-4= 2 spot jump
Kuja - 4-2= 2 spot jump
Ansem - 6-4= 2
Nemesis - 8-6= 2
Sin - 8-6= 2
Kefka - 2-1= 1
Lake - 2-1= 1
Albedo - 4-3= 1
Luca - 5-4= 1
Mother Brain - 7-6= 1

Just as you would expect, as soon as you get away from the pro-Nintendo Board 8 crowd, Square RPG characters begin to take over. The Seph rise was expected, but warning bells are starting to go off in my head as I see the dramatic rises Kuja and Sin made, as well. Sin and Nem are especially scary, as they got NO Contest Board support at all, yet made it in with halfway decent seeds.

And you should definitely be thinking twice before picking against Vergil, Sigma, or Lavos after seeing these results... but hopefully that doesn't come as news to anyone here.

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the-elite.net
Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://geocities.com/cyber1166/gamefaqs

Oh, and I'll add another thing:

I've heard many a StarCraft fan rant and rave about the greatness of Kerrigan.

How many Smash Brothers fans have you heard so much as talk about Master Hand?
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Kerrigan will crash and burn
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Vote in the Spring Contest 2005 http://www.freewebs.com/springcontest2k5/

It's not like MH is obscure or a joke. Nobody said you had to be obscure to be a joke.

Of course SSB and SSBM is beloved for its multi-player, but the single-player mode is not to be ignored one bit here.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

no prob, NGamer. glad you enjoyed that bit of stats. ^_^

i would've added that Nemesis worries me as much as Vergil and Sin did, but he's going up against Ocelot, who i believe will be another Metal Gear powerhouse. not quite as strong as the Snakes, but enough to take out the deformed Nemesis.

and i have to admit, that outside of this board, i haven't heard many people talk about how cool Master Hand is. but on the other hand, outside of this board, i have never heard anyone even mention Kerrigan's name. that's including some friends that have played multiplayer Starcraft very extensively.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

You don't exactly hear too much about how great Link is either excluding during contest where everybody talks about how he will rip apart his competiton..
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I want to try to redeem my last place finish from the last Guru stats. I'll post my bracket later, as I don't want to email, and I don't care if anyone sees it.

Good Lord. People are still discussing Master Hand? I'd like to meet someone who actually cares about Master Hand.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

I'd like to meet someone who actually cares about Master Hand.

Event 50 is pretty fun...
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

But not just because of Master Hand.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

i'd like to meet someone that actually cares about Pong, yet it still won a match. >_>

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

Event 50 may have been quite fun, but I don't see why that suddenly would have the masses voting for him over someone like Kuja. Does anyone expect Master Hand to be worth anything in an actual Summer Contest? Because I sure don't. I would expect MH to be pure fodder while at the least, Kuja would be able to rank around that of Kefka.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

Pong won because it faced a game nobody has ever heard of.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I cannot believe you'd try to compare Pong to Master Hand.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

And upon further investigation, Pong faced River City Ransom. I would be shocked if it lost.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

actually, that is a decent comparison. everyone knows both Pong and Master Hand, but deep down, noone really cares about either.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

...I picked RCR over Pong...
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Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

i nominated master hand and i didn't nominate kuja. hmmmmm. who does my bracket have i wonder?
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Mario Sunshine-120 Shines || BtT 3:34.97 || HRC 37,592.3 ||

Guru entry:

Round 1:

Bowser
Andross
Ocelot
Wily

Sephiroth
Ghaleon
Lavos
Liquid

Kefka
Wesker
Albedo
Ridley

Gannondorf
Ansem
Sin
Kuja


Round 2:
Bowser
Ocelot

Sephiroth
Lavos

Kefka
Ridley

Gannondorf
Sin

Round 3:
Bowser
Sephiroth
Kefka
Gannondorf

Round 4:
Sephiroth
Gannondorf

Round 5:
Sephiroth

"I douth Blanka's more popular than Honda,"

Blanka has always been more popular. And for those still taking M. Bison over Albedo I will say htis one last time, if this were the summer contest I can assure you that Chun-li, Guile and Akuma would all make it in before M. Bison. It seems to me the only reason he evn beat out Vega was because the casual nominators thought to themselves that they needed to nominate a SF2 character (for those who like it, anyway) and as M. Bison was the final boss he stood as the most memorable. To be honest though, I'd be willing to bet Vega and Sagat could beat Bison in an actual match.

"Well, of course. Kefka isn't winning his division."

You're joking, right? As last year proved Kefka isn't weak. He's not by any means top tier, but he performed respectably against Knux and is at worst middle of the road. I'd expect Ridley to lose to Knux in an even more emberassing fashion (of course I've always thought it was rediculous that so many of you pushed for Ridley in the first place) and unless Diablo is as much like Starcraft as some (myself excluded) then Kefka has the division sewn up.

"And Ghaleon will definitely be stronger than Luca. I don't even see how someone could view it differently."

And now we agree

"nor Dee Snider Kefka."

Never heard it refered to as that. That's a good one.

"and if it gets that many casual nominations, then chances are that it is gonna drag a lot of casual votes too."

You're assuming too much there. Fact of the matter is that the "casual" nominators aren't unaware of character like Ghaleon or that they like Virgil more, just that Virgil, being more recent, came to mind first. Don't think about these things too much, Frog himself proved that casuals don't run the whole show.

"i'd bet that Board 8 counted for almost a third of the nominations,"

Very, very doubtful. When it's posted on the front page of a site this big more than 500 people are going to read the news blurb about a contest nomination, especially considering it was up for several days.

"i mean, Cats a #5 seed?"

That's due simply to this being a villain contest. It's a lot harder to think of 10 villains then 10 characters. Plus, look at any character under 5, not a single one of them would ever make the real contest.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

everyone knows both Pong and Master Hand, but deep down, noone really cares about either.

Pong faced a game nobody has ever heard of.

Master Hand is facing a character from some series called "Final Fantasy" or something like that. Don't quote me on this, but I think that series is kinda popular here.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

You're joking, right? As last year proved Kefka isn't weak. He's not by any means top tier, but he performed respectably against Knux and is at worst middle of the road. I'd expect Ridley to lose to Knux in an even more emberassing fashion

Kefka was and is weak. He simply isn't as weak as was initially thought from 2003, but you cannot associate him with the word "strength." Even with his improvement, he manages to sit nicely in the bottom 32 of the field - something I would definitely not expect to happen to Ridley. If I had to project, I would put Ridley around that of Luigi's value. That happens to be more than enough to beat Kefka and win the division.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

"You don't exactly hear too much about how great Link is either excluding during contest where everybody talks about how he will rip apart his competiton.."

That may be the most rediculous, and untrue, thing I've ever seen you say.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

River City Ransom was an absolutely awesome game, vastly superior than the simplistic fun of Pong. unfortunately, few people played or even heard of it. so they clicked on the game they recognized, even though few people really cared that deeply about Pong. obviously, FFIX is nowhere near the obscure level of RCR, but more people are gonna care about Master Hand as the image of Smash Bros. than people that care about Pong.

now, i'm pretty close to settling on Kuja myself, but Master Hand is not a joke character and he will not get mercilessly blown out.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

He may not get mercilessly blown out, but he'll never threaten Kuja.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

If I had to project, I would put Ridley around that of Luigi's value.

Why? Luigi carries far more weight in the Mario universe than Ridley does in the Metroid universe. He's playable in many games and even has games devoted entirely to him (albeit not terribly popular ones in these parts). He's gotten far more exposure. Ridley's a cool boss fight, but not much more, and his name isn't one that's terribly publicized in the games.

"He simply isn't as weak as was initially thought from 2003, but you cannot associate him with the word "strength.""

I'd call it middle of the road.

"Even with his improvement, he manages to sit nicely in the bottom 32 of the field "

By a whole two spots, and only 3/4 of a %. Now the stats are accurate to an extent, but not enough to say for sure that Kefka can't beat DK and take a spot on the top half.

"something I would definitely not expect to happen to Ridley."

Well yeah, because he's not liked enough to even make it.

"If I had to project, I would put Ridley around that of Luigi's value."

And if a had a projector I'd show a slide of you smoking the drugs you were on when you said Mega Man was going to beat Link, the same ones you're on now. The only reason ridley grabs a 2 seed is because for every game/series out there there were a crap-load of fans who voted for a villain for its association with the game and not for the merits of the characters themselves. While I give Ridley a great deal of credit I don't give him enough to say that his seed is based on him and not where he's from. And if he is at Luigi's strength I wouldn't put it out of Kefka's ability to win.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

That may be the most rediculous, and untrue, thing I've ever seen you say.

Perhaps I'm just visiting the wrong topics then. I see a lot of support for Zelda games but not so much for Link himself.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I always tough Honda was more popular, I always saw more people use him, I guess people don't like turtles.

And while Vega and Sagat would probably beat Bison, it's probably more of Capcom's fault than Sagat and Vega being more popular. Bison was incredibly popular in the SF2 days, but in Alpha/Marvel Bison became horridly fat, slow and useless, and his Psycho Crusher was only useable as a super and was replaced with a fireball that you'd have to be playong with your eyes closed to be hit with. And remained that way until Capcom vs SNK where he got a new sprite and got his awesome normals and Psycho Crusher back.
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BANG BANG BANG VIPER BEAM!

"I always saw more people use him"

He may have been better in actual competition, or as you said maybe people just don't like turtles, but Blanka just appeals to that lame innerchild in a lot of fighting game fans... for whatever reason they love freaks (see: Gen-an, Yoshimitsu, Voldo)
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Oh, and see also: Most of Guilty Gear and a large portion of MK.
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Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Why? Luigi carries far more weight in the Mario universe than Ridley does in the Metroid universe. He's playable in many games and even has games devoted entirely to him (albeit not terribly popular ones in these parts). He's gotten far more exposure. Ridley's a cool boss fight, but not much more, and his name isn't one that's terribly publicized in the games.

I did not say that Ridley could give Luigi a close match or beat him. That is why I referred to Luigi's value. Luigi is already pretty weak, but to I'm not trying to compare Luigi to Ridley. I think Luigi being as weak as he is, is rather shocking more than anything.

I'd call it middle of the road.

He's almost at the middle, but the middle is filled with weak characters. But there are a number of weak characters in the contest and while he isn't fodder, he's still far more likely to be labeled "weak" than he is "strong." Hell, that division is so hard because it is filled with so many weak people, including Kefka.

By a whole two spots, and only 3/4 of a %. Now the stats are accurate to an extent, but not enough to say for sure that Kefka can't beat DK and take a spot on the top half.

On the flipside, there's nothing to say that Kefka can't also drop down by losing to people such as Bomberman or Hayabusa.

Well yeah, because he's not liked enough to even make it.

Ah, yes, I suppose you're one of those people who think because he hasn't made the field that he'd be weak, right? That's a fantastic argument, after all.

And if a had a projector I'd show a slide of you smoking the drugs you were on when you said Mega Man was going to beat Link, the same ones you're on now.

Actually, to even compare what I said about Mega Man beating Link and then Ridley beating Kefka is nowhere near as extreme. Ridley beating Kefka can very easily happen, just as it could not happen.

The only reason ridley grabs a 2 seed is because for every game/series out there there were a crap-load of fans who voted for a villain for its association with the game and not for the merits of the characters themselves.

And that's pretty much how all of the characters get nominated. How good/bad/developed the character is always is the last thing to consider when a character makes the field. Being the villain of the Metroid series as well as being in some of the best boss fights out there would net Ridley's popularity and/or #2 seed. But he isn't different from anyone else out there who feeds off the popularity from the series their in.

While I give Ridley a great deal of credit I don't give him enough to say that his seed is based on him and not where he's from. And if he is at Luigi's strength I wouldn't put it out of Kefka's ability to win.

Ridley would be projected to win with 53.8% if he were at Luigi's value. I've projected that Ridley would beat Kefka with 54%, which falls about in line with what he'd be projected to win should he actually hit that 22.96% value or something near it. I would really doubt Kefka turning the tables at a 54 - 46 matchup.

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

MH to Pong really isn't THAT bad a comparison, though Kuja is certainly no RCR. I'd rather say that MH is to Tetris if you're gonna use game/character comparisons; Tetris is generally liked and most have seen it, though there is nothing solid behind it to call a strong force...but those comparisons are basically useless.

I suspect there's more over-estimation for Kuja here than anything though; personally, I'm not convinced Kuja would beat Kefka. Two contests and has shown to have some strength already...then, just to throw it out there, FF3/6 > FF9 here too. While it's all but proven that Vivi is stronger than any FF3/6 character, there have certainly been small expectations for Zidane here (duking it out with DK? My guess is on par with Knuckles)...and before this contest started, I have NEVER heard Kuja's name be spoken, ever. I don't believe Kuja can be any closer to my guess of Zidane's strength (AKA Knuckles) than what Kefka has shown, and many people think Zidane's weaker than that. I really think this 2-seed is gettin' to ya'll...

..."Kuja got a strong burst from the casuals in the nominations though" has been said though, so I must point out another thing: I bet the board did mainly nominate MH as a joke, but it's not like MH will have no appeal to the casuals either. Apparently, casuals helped enough to keep him in the contest...and the difference between Kuja and Master Hand is this: when you think of villains/characters while nominating, Kuja is surely goin' to come first because you know he's eligible. Come on, before the contest started, how many woulda guessed that MH would be cast to the side like he was Angry Sun? I blame that on his deceptive seed more than anything else; I guarantee you MH is not 7-seed material here. Kuja will be proven not to be 2-seed material either.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

nd before this contest started, I have NEVER heard Kuja's name be spoken, ever.

Shows how much you pay attention to my contest since Kuja's in it.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Actually, to even compare what I said about Mega Man beating Link and then Ridley beating Kefka is nowhere near as extreme. Ridley beating Kefka can very easily happen, just as it could not happen.

XD

i'll give you that one, HM. at least the possibility of Ridley over Kefka is realistic. Megaman over Link - well, that was insane.

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VOTE FOR ULTROS!!! G'FHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

You know, everytime I see "MH" I keep thinking someone is saying "HM."

Maybe, it's because I just glance. Just thought I'd share that. =p

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

Harrich:
I don't believe Kuja can be any closer to my guess of Zidane's strength (AKA Knuckles) than what Kefka has shown, and many people think Zidane's weaker than that.

I think Kuja would be stronger than Zidane actually. I see the FFIX hierarchy as Vivi>Kuja>Zidane. In fact I think Beatrix might be stronger than Zidane as well.
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

Kuja might be stronger than Zidane, but I doubt it. I certainly wouldn't mind though.
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"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I think Kuja would be stronger than Zidane actually. I see the FFIX hierarchy as Vivi>Kuja>Zidane. In fact I think Beatrix might be stronger than Zidane as well.

What makes you think that, out of curiosity?

From: Heroic Mario | Posted: 4/14/2005 12:20:46 AM | Message Detail
If I had to project, I would put Ridley around that of Luigi's value.

^^^This is what we refer to as "crazy talk".

From: Team Rocket Elite | Posted: 4/14/2005 12:29:26 AM | Message Detail
Perhaps I'm just visiting the wrong topics then. I see a lot of support for Zelda games but not so much for Link himself.

You really have no recollection of rampant Link fanboyism running amock? (not to say that I wasn't a part of it...)
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

Ridley is little more than a recurring boss fight in most Metroid games. I really doubt he'd be as strong as Luigi, much less Kefka. Hell, if I didn't think the board was on blizzard fever, I'd put Diablo over him.
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BtT: 3:43.45 | HRC: 51,246.1 ft OV aaaargh
Or, the Katamari thing. It's like getting high, withought the death part. - Link the Midgit

...Kuja's in it?! Whoa; shame on me. I stand corrected, though I still don't remember anybody talking 'bout him before the contest.

*looks at Kuja's records on your site*

I know a board-contest is not a good way to judge, but lost to Albedo? Beat Aeris in OT when Aeris is ridiculed like she is on this board? Nothing too spectacular...but again, that's the board. All that's happened is that I now know I have seen Kuja's name before, but never heard him be discussed before this contest. Minor correction.
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Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Ridley is little more than a recurring boss fight in most Metroid games.

As is Bowser and Ganondorf. Most of Nintendo's bosses hold the title of being "a recurring boss fight."

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No one knows Ridley's origin, yet for some reason everyone in the galaxy fears the name "Ridley."

I think Ridley's gonna be more on par with Tails than anybody else...just above Kefka.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.