He got SFF'd to death by Bowser in 2003.

That was my point. Ness got SFF'd to death because Bowser stole the majority of Ness' SSB fanbase.

In accordance to the prophecy, Dweebenheimer!
---
Yes, this is MasterMage119.

Ness got SFF'd to death because Bowser stole the majority of Ness' SSB fanbase.

The majority? No.

A large chunk, yes.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

"I think he's a joke contestant, but he is a ssb joke contestant."

A joke is a joke. SSBM did well because it was a real competitor, Master Hand isn't. Besides, one what grounds could anyone justifiably reason that Ness ranks lower than Master Hand? If that were the case, especially considering SSBM's high appeal, why hasn't MH seen contest glory before? I just don't think he packs more punch than Ness.
---
Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

I don't think the quaility of the character in the game will matter too much in getting votes from appearing in ssb, though. I mean there are more super smash brothers players than ness players obviously, and there's a greater chance in the ssb group as a whole that they haven't played as Ness versus just seeing Master Hand.
---
One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

The majority? No.

A large chunk, yes.

You realize you just agreed that Ness was mostly popular through SSB. In fact, you said that even more than 75% of his fanbase is from SSB... But somehow I get the feeling that isn't what you meant to imply.

In accordance to the prophecy, Dweebenheimer!
---
Yes, this is MasterMage119.

I just don't think he packs more punch than Ness.

lol, I think in that one aspect alone, master hand might just beat everyone else.
---
One who knows nothing can understand nothing.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold." - Old Klingon Proverb

Sin gon' kick some Egg. Book.

---
PETITION: Ability to preview contests to moderators before posting it. http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=19643565 (125 Signs!)

"That was my point. Ness got SFF'd to death because Bowser stole the majority of Ness' SSB fanbase."

Auron proved that a character doesn't even need to be in the same game to face serious SFF. In fact, Kefka proved you don't even need to be in the same series. Bowser would have SFFed Ness regardless of their status in SSB/M and the fact that Ness wasn't beaten by much more may show that he rates a lot higher in that game then you are giving him credit for.
---
Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

You realize you just agreed that Ness was mostly popular through SSB. In fact, you said that even more than 75% of his fanbase is from SSB

No, that's what YOU said. I said there's no way the majority of his popularity comes from Smash Brothers.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Punny, FF. Very punny.
---
Not to put too fine a point on it, Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet. Make a little birdhouse in your soul.

Yay! A full month full of HM's cockynes-I mean "optimism."

Anway, a whirlwind turn of the first round:

Bowser Vs. Pyramid Head:

Yawn. Good for Silent Hill to kinda get a rep in the contest. Unfortunately, he's gonna get killed with 80%. Pyramid Head will probably do a little better than Guybrush, but not much.

Sigma Vs. Andross:

Personally, I see Sigma as a decent mid-carder and nothing higher. Fortunately for him, that won't really matter, since that's better than Fox, let alone Andross. 60-65% is my win prediction.

Revolver Ocelot Vs. Nemesis:

Ocelot is another character that I don't think will perform up to expectations, but yet again, it won't really matter as he will have no trouble at all with Nemesis. Around 70%, maybe a little less.

Dr. Wily Vs. Ultros

I see Wily as slightly less popular than Kefka. I imagine that there's a substantial gap between Kefka and Ultros, so this should be no problem. Another win in the 65% range.

---
"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

Sephiroth Vs. Ramierz:

Heh. I remember the person who made a topic a day or two ago asking for this very match. Nothing much to say about the match itself. Sephiroth with 85% if I had to guess.

To digress, I have to side with the people saying Ramierz was underdeveloped. Personally, I preferred Belleza but, *SOA SPOILERS* I'm not even sure she'd be eligible.*END SPOILERS.* So, meh.

Virgil Vs. Ghaleon:

Virgil was only one of two people in the contest who I didn't know by name alone; not having a PS2 will do that to you.

Anyway, I did originally side with Virgil, until I heard that Lunar: Fifty-Million S's C sold 500,000 copies. Hell, that's as much as SOA, and certainly better than Suikoden II. Although, I may change this later, I'm gonna have to side with Virgil for now, because to me Casual Fodder > Hardcore Fodder.

Plus, there was actually a concentrated effort to get Ghaleon into the contest last year, and he didn't make the cut. It's not like Working Designs would have suffered from the cap or anything.

Lavos Vs. Mother Brain:

Cute match, but I'm gonna have to go with Lavos. From what everyone says he plays more of a role in his games, plus CT >> any other Metroid game on GameFAQS. Probably a win of 58% or so.

Liquid Snake Vs. Officer Tenpenny:

The Officer is the final character I didn't know by name alone. All well, 70-75% for Snake. I still think Officer Tenpenny is an AWESOME name for a villain though. Almost as good as Talleyrand, whose actually a real person, but I digress.
---
"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

That's all for now. I'm off for bed.
---
"Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing..."--Ganondorf Dragmire

Truthfully, anyone in Sin's four pack could win that particular four pack. And Sin vs Kuja, if it happens, is the trap match to defy all trap matches. Auron or Tidus would rip Zidane or Vivi a new one, and if you go all the way down the line, I would pick all of FFX's protagonists to beat their FF9 counterparts. Yet all of a sudden, this is supposed to happen in reverse when discussing the villains? It's a tough call to make. Sin could very well beat Kuja on the backbone of FFX vs FF9 alone.

Ulti spoke the truth.


Now, onto this ongoing discussion; I still don't see what makes MH such an unreasonable pick, but I don't think the Ness comparison is gonna do either side any favors. Pikachu surely gets his popularity from more games than SSB and SSBM, right? Of course...but look how weak he is. Ness, while stronger, could have the same thing said about him...so this can lead to two things:

1) SSB/M does next to nothing in strength gain.
2) Different characters get various gains from SSB/M.

Obviously Pikachu didn't have much on him side from SSB/M, but I think it's unarguable that Ness got help from 'em...so I'll side with #2. Now, Ness didn't have many favors done for him in SSBM if you compare him to what he was in SSB, so I'm guessing that's where the most of his SSB/M strength came from...

...and Ness was a secret character, something that SSB/M has been sure to include several of in each game that's worth having (Ness, Ganon, and Jiggly for three). I don't remember how to get all the secret characters, but many you get by, you guessed it, beating the single player mode. Considering its length and optional difficulties, it's not like it's hard to see MH in either game (and with SSBM being the best-selling GC game and SSB being a best-seller on the N64, plenty of people have played him)...

...then you'll play him again, probably with another character. Then another. Then another one on top of that. You don't do it with just Ness or Pikachu or Donkey Kong or Link...everybody, if you want to get all the goods from the game. Not so much in SSB than SSBM (though there were still rewards), but there was plenty of motivation to keep playing the single-player game, especially to collect trophies in SSBM...

...as for actually LIKING Master Hand, I think he's unique enough to get his own votes and not just rely on being related to SSBM to get some votes; I have certainly enjoyed putting the finishing touch on MH and CH before by using Sheik's chain-attack or Link's mid-air downward-sword smash-thing many a time. Put him up against Kefka, and MH would get a strong share of the votes (he wouldn't win though, period; don't get that confused, but MH would impress)...

...as for Kuja, to be honest, until this contest started, I haven't EVER heard a word said about Kuja. Not to say he'll be weak because of that, but that certainly hurts his case if he were to face, say...Kefka. I can barely see Kuja being around Ryu Hayabusa's strength. I'd put MH in-between him and Kefka, which makes it a close win for MH there. Finally, throw in a hearty dose of SSBM > FF9 in terms of sales (I assume that one) and strength here, and you have my pick of MH over Kuja.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

But Master Hand is a joke entry. Smash Brothers or not, nobody could honestly take him seriously as a "villain."
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Kefka > Robotnik > Kuja > Sin >= Master Hand.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

You really need to put Kuja at the front of that inequality. Kefka missed the boat with the casual Final Fantasy fans.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

CATS is a joke entry. Adventure is a joke entry. Sand Bag would be a joke entry. However, you can make a case for MH having strength like I already have. I, BY NO MEANS, assure victory for the glove, but I do think he can pull it out, joke or otherwise.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

No, Master Hand is a glove. He's a joke entry. No way he beats Kuja. None whatsoever.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

And, yet, FFVI is so strong...Perhaps, people, for some unknown reason, don't really care about Kefka. Or Final Fantasy villains in general, which could explain why we've only ever seen Sephiroth (the obvious exception to this rule) and Kefka, and Kefka sucks. I don't think any Final Fantasy villain ('cept Seph, of course) could beat Kefka, though you could probably make a case for Seifer. Then again, he's apparently not a villain.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

I'd pick Seymour over Kefka pretty easily.
---
BtT: 3:43.45 | HRC: 51,246.1 ft OV aaaargh
Or, the Katamari thing. It's like getting high, withought the death part. - Link the Midgit

Kuja's not all that dissimilar from Sephiroth.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I'd take Seifer, Kuja, and Seymour all over Kefka. From what it seems, the mad clown appeals to the hardcore.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Rumor had it joke-pics helped Duke Nukem against Cloud, for the record, and I find it completely reasonable to believe MH > DN and that Kuja is between that and Kefka. If lettuce can beat Pac-Man, a glove can compete with Kuja.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

Rumor had it joke-pics helped Duke Nukem against Cloud, for the record,

Noticeable, but miniscule.

and I find it completely reasonable to believe MH > DN and that Kuja is between that and Kefka. If lettuce can beat Pac-Man, a glove can compete with Kuja.

That lettuce nearly lost to Pac-Man, something I wouldn't predict Kuja to do.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Hey Leon i think u and i will have pretty similar brackets have you got diablo over ridley?
---
"Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone"

Kefka would get about 40% on Vivi, barring SFF. I don't think Kuja would; I think he'd be closer to 35-38%.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

You know what I think would be a pretty cool contest?

A supporting characters contest. So, no main heroes, no main villains, but everyone else is fair game. What would you guys think of that?
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

A contest that Magus would win!

*dances*
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

^sounds pretty good!
---
If i study high.. and take the test high... ill get High scores!

Considering I think Zidane would be pretty close to Vivi, I don't think 40%+ is that farfetched for Kuja. It's not very often you have that large of a gap between the most popular character from a game and its villain.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

A contest that Magus would win!

I was for the idea until RPGuy mentioned that.

Now I'm against it.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

And it's not very often that a villain makes the field. What we've got is, by and large, the leftovers, and Kuja is such a leftover. I'd imagine that the majority of the characters in this contest are going to be much further away from their heroes than what we're used to.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

Well, that's true, but I still wouldn't have any doubts about taking Kuja over Kefka.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Robotnik and Wily, for instance, both have very popular heroes, but nobody is considering Wily over Ocelot and few people are picking Robotnik over Kuja.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

nobody is considering Wily over Ocelot and few people are picking Robotnik over Kuja.

Apparently you haven't been reading the board very much.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I meant nobody here. The board can do whatever it wants.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

Yeah; the board seems torn on those two, yet the BOP has 'em lookin' pretty bad, heh.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

The only one I can't make up my mind about is Albedo-Bison. I've heard good arguments for both sides.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

Me too, but I'm taking Bison with decent confidence; I think if you aren't Ryu but are most any other character in the SF series, you're gonna be pretty close to where Ken is, give or take a lil'. Rough guess, but I don't see it being wrong enough to cost the match.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

KOS-MOS would beat Ken, and I'm guessing that there's a similar proportion between Albedo/KOS-MOS and Ken/Bison. I'd also assume that proportion is fairly high for both (they'd get ~40% on their heroes). That's why I'm going for Albedo.

Now, if something went wrong with Sonic/Ken in 2k3, I'm kinda screwed...
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

Do you think it'd be possible for Albedo to be stronger than KOS-MOS?
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I wouldn't think so. KOS-MOS is already pretty strong for a non-Square RPG character, and she's more or less the focus of XenoSaga (quiet, Shion). Albedo being stronger would use more or less the same logic as Magus being stronger than Crono, except with a Crono who actually does some pretty kickass stuff. That doesn't seem likely to me.

Plus, people that haven't played XS likely associate KOS-MOS with it; not sure if they'd do the same for Albedo.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

I agree KOS-MOS would beat Ken, but my assumption is Albedo's gonna be a good bit lower than KOS-MOS too. So if Bison is nearby Ken and Albedo can't hold up to KOS-MOS's standards, then Bison wins it in my book.
---
Serious Reminder: Vote for Dr. Wily in 2k5
Meanwhile, sit back and enjoy the contest-hype.

*sigh*

This would be a much easier decision if it were Akuma instead of Bison.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

I'm not big on fighters myself, but most people I've talked to agree that Chun-Li would probably come between Ken and Bison, and we're talking some pretty small margins for fitting Chunners in if KOS-MOS is at 24%, Ken is at 21%, and Albedo would get 35% or more on KOS-MOS.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!

There's no doubt that at least Chun-Li and Akuma would come before Bison. I just don't know how to gauge Albedo.
---
"It feels as though the raindrops are blessing our victory." - Kuja
"I never trust a Frenchman." - Revolver Ocelot

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

wow coming on 400 posts, how long has it been since we've filled up an entire topic in a day?

---
_.-~'42'~-._
--'nuff said--

The people who've played XS/2 rate him pretty highly. So it depends on how much of KOS-MOS's strength is name recognition/association/whatever, that Albedo likely wouldn't get, and how much is from people playing and liking XS/2, which Albedo probably would get.
---
Proud supporter of Ghaleon, Kefka, Ultros, Liquid, Ocelot, and Wily!