and unless the nominator goes to the Summer Contest Board

Even then, he doesn't seem to be receiving very many nominations based on Tai's nomination project.

---
Nominate Dark Samus for the Spring 2005 Contest!

Chichiri's final paragraph was well-said.

Wait, it was?

I mean, sorry for being all pissy about this, maybe I'm missing something here. But how does that at all relate to a popularity contest?
---
There is no looking back. There is nothing left for losers, so I must fight on. - Kratos Aurion
?????????????

Names carry far more weight in this world than they may deserve to, and a name like Link draws in votes enough that I'd bet Dark Link would at the worst scare Sephiroth and at best beat him.

Why? Ganondorf can't scare Sephiroth, and if you know who Link is you know damned well who Ganondorf is. Why would Dark Link draw more support than Ganondorf?
---
"My name is Guybrush Threepwood. Prepare to die!"

Even then, he doesn't seem to be receiving very many nominations based on Tai's nomination project.

Right. I'll have Aeon Azuran eat my hat if Dark Link makes it into the contest.
---
There is no looking back. There is nothing left for losers, so I must fight on. - Kratos Aurion
?????????????

This is a site with very little respect for fighting game CHARACTERS, especially those fron non-MK non-Capcom fighters. The games themselves are regarded better than most of the characters in them.

Well, it seems that SF is a bit stronger with its characters, and Scorpion seems to be about on par with his games. Don't forget Morrigan, either. Tekken does seem to be a series where its one representative completely blew it (but Kazuya is nowhere near the most popular of Tekken characters). I think Virtua Fighter was never really that popular. Not so sure about KoF...I don't think the games could do much better than their characters. Kasumi also seems to be at least on par with how well her games could do.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

In fact, here's the comparison of Dark Samus and Dark Link from Tai's nomination process.

Dark Samus - Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (23)
Dark Link - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (12)

---
Nominate Dark Samus for the Spring 2005 Contest!

"What?"

Bowser was already significantly closer to Mario than Ganon was to Link, so obviously Bowser should do significantly better against Mario than Ganon would against Link.

"You want to believe that Shadow and Tidus both dropped proportionately?"

I don't believe the stats were correct in the first place and that we had a major coincidence.

"I mean that they'll be up against tough competition round one even if they do get in, and I doubt they'll be able to pull it off."

I think the only characters that can within reason stop them will be the one seeds, so unless you expect all those clones to get 16s or 8/9s they aren't going out early. I just don't think Dark Link will lose to someone like Kefka who we know would pick up a rather high seed in an all villain contest. I'm thinking IF anyone can take the clones out it'll be limited to Seph, Bowser, Ganon and Liquid Snake or any of a very small few who may be right up there with them but missed previous contests (Revolver Ocelot). These Dark characters will be Tier 2-ish at worst (Assuming we don't count Seph as a tier of his own).

"Super Mario RPG wasn't a powerhouse."

I never argued that it was, all I was saying was that it was respectable. If we say that SMRP = 90% Mario, CT = 110% Crono and SF2 = 100% Ryu (remember, Ryu has always been close to 30% on champs which is very respectable) then the only anomoly there is obviously CT SFF SMRPG because it wins over the RPG crowd quite unanimously. If the game contest were to be ressurected I'd bet anything that the results would differ greatly.
---
"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

I have some catching up to do, but I have a note about Diablo. I think he should be eligible. The concept of the devil is not original, but Diablo is. If Diablo is ineligible, then so is every spy (all inspired by James Bond), as well as nearly every RPG villain (most are gods and/or wish to be as powerful as gods, which is a concept seen thousands of years before video games existed). If Diablo were named something else, I doubt this discussion would even be going on.

~*ST*~
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

I have some catching up to do, but I have a note about Diablo. I think he should be eligible. The concept of the devil is not original, but Diablo is. If Diablo is ineligible, then so is every spy (all inspired by James Bond), as well as nearly every RPG villain (most are gods and/or wish to be as powerful as gods, which is a concept seen thousands of years before video games existed). If Diablo were named something else, I doubt this discussion would even be going on.

OMG look! Dinosaurs touching Jesus at night!

Just kidding :)

On the subject of Dark Samus and Dark Link, it seems to me that they both stand a pretty good chance of getting into the contest considering that the field consists of 64 villains. I think we'd have a hard time coming up with 32 decent villains, let alone 64. Any villain from a highly respected game has a shot with those kind of odds. If Ceej considers them eligible, I'd be surprised to *not* see them, especially Dark Samus, since it sounds like she's a legitimate villain instead of a mere Samus clone.
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!
Nominate Kerrigan, Albedo, and SHODAN!

Why am I being taken off?

Because I was annoyed with your MBH spamming. But you've been pretty cool aside from that one day, so I'll just chalk it up to you having a bad day or something. My apologies.

~*ST*~
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

Bowser was already significantly closer to Mario than Ganon was to Link, so obviously Bowser should do significantly better against Mario than Ganon would against Link.

I decided to check up on that, myself. According to the 2003 X-sts, Mario was suppose to get 59.44% on Bowser and ended up getting 70.65% on him. Link was expected to get 65.28% and ended up getting 87.9% on him.

The prior numbers are just based on their strength and not dealing with any SFF. Mario did 11.21% better than expected against Bowser (which can easily be contributed to SFF). Link, on the other hand, did 22.62% better than expected against Ganondorf (again, can be contributed to SFF).

What I meant by "doing more respectably" was not getting SFFed nearly as bad and having far more of a solid fanbase of his own instead of simply leeching completely off of Link/The Legend of Zelda like Ganondorf. Sure, Bowser may receive some, but to group him and Shadow into the same pool as Ganondorf makes no sense. Ganondorf is a perfect example of someone who rides on the series popularity moreso than anyone else.

I don't believe the stats were correct in the first place and that we had a major coincidence.

From what I understand, there's a lot that says the 2003 stats were pretty accurate while the 2004 stats had plenty of reason to be inaccurate as far as Tidus/Shadow is concerned. Now, I do believe they may have been weaker than 2003, but they did not take a ~7% drop. Shadow's strength has far more reason to be him than it does to be him looking like Sonic. The two are drastically different from one another to be like that.

---
Nominate Dark Samus for the Spring 2005 Contest!

"Now you're just comparing apples and oranges."

Defining a simplistic funtion of human psychology is comparing apples and oranges?

"Were there some people who voted for Bush just because they liked his father? Probably. Were there a lot of people who made the decision based on that? No way."

Prove it. You're going way too far saying something like that when there's absolutely no means by which you could track such a thing.

I'm fairly certain that to an extent you are correct, however... they didn't all vote for him in droves because of his father's name, a lot of them voted for him simply because he was the Republican candidate... so some people will vote for Dark Link and other will vote for "that one villain from Zelda who looks like the main character".

In a voting situation a lot of people choose not to use logic and vote (or vote against) simply by association. "Gas prices are high and Kerry voted to raise the prices once, I'm not voting for him". That's how politics work, you associate yourself with things that will gain you voters and you associate your opponent's with things that don't... the game contest is exactly the same except that there is no active campaigning, the association is based merely on the experience each game/character provided.

Link brought game like none other so Link W. Link Jr, for simply carrying the name Link gets votes. Zelda is a bastion of good gaming, Any villain from a Zelda game is related to that good gaming and in turn gets respect (and votes) just for being related. Names sell.

"Dark Link probably won't even cross their mind."

Yeah, because they can't have good memories of playing 4swords with some friends or think nostalgically about the hard as nails boss fight at the end of the second Zelda game when they kids. No way. Of course, that damn boss fight is one of my stronger memories of that game, given that as a kid I couldn't complete it no matter how many times I tried (and I tried a lot).


---
"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

Shadow Link, Mario, Metal Sonic, Angry Sun, and any other gimmick really shouldn't be in the contest, and I trust that CJayC has enough common sense to see why.

But with Dark Samus, it's a bit different. She isn't Metal Sonic or Shadow Link, two characters who are simply placed in their respective series without any rhyme or reason. She isn't Angry Sun or Mario, two gimmick villains that we're nominating on technicalities. She is a complete, true villain with a logical background story that perfectly explains her existence. She isn't just an empty shell made to rip off the main character in the series by any means.

~*ST*~
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

It was well-said if you believe what he says; he made a good comparison of how big names are still goin' to get their recognition by their brand-name (and logo if you wanna throw that in the analogy with their pics), whether they actually have the merits behind them to be so popular or not. Assuming Link is the Starbucks of GameFAQs, Dark Link can still "sell" itself to the voters due to the band-name, so to speak.

We're still in the theory process on both sides here, so it'll be hard to find somethin' we'll all agree on...but I do believe this to be true until we get good enough proof to tell otherwise.
---
Serious Reminder: Nominate Dr. Wily in 2k5
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/contest/contest_nominate.php

"But how does that at all relate to a popularity contest?"

Since when are brand names not a popularity contest? Have you never heard of the Cola Wars or anything like it? You carry a big name you sell products, you higher a big basketball star to sell your crap and it sells. A name known nationwide is worth more than anyhting else. When a McDonalds opens up then owner pays a franchising fee to the McDonalds corpration and what they are paying for is the name. You can buy crappy hamburger meat and substandard toppings and condements anywhere, you can cook them poorly and leave them under a heat lamp for too long anytime, but you have to pay special for that McDonalds name. Why? Because if you have that name you'll sell more than a competitor with the exact same offerings because you have that name. Why? Because names sell.

"if you know who Link is you know damned well who Ganondorf is."

Are you sure? What about the kids who played Zelda games but just couldn't beat them. Yes, I know they are easy and if they hard real interest in it they would eventually... but this is the final boss and he tends to minimize his appearances before the grand finale. If I didn't Know Zelda so well (as in beating most of them, or even just one of them) I'd have taken very little concern for a character I only saw for a couple of seconds at any given point. And until WW there was nothing likable about him, given the combination that a lot of poeple find nothing likable about WW and we can see why he wouldn't rate as highly as Link.

"In fact, here's the comparison of Dark Samus and Dark Link from Tai's nomination process.

Dark Samus - Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (23)
Dark Link - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (12)"

Whoopity-doo! Since when have nominations dictated actual performance? And, to add onto that, since when have Board 8 nominations dictated who gets into the contest and at what seed?
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"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

Whoopity-doo! Since when have nominations dictated actual performance? And, to add onto that, since when have Board 8 nominations dictated who gets into the contest and at what seed?

You might want to take the time to notice that the comment was not directed to you nor the argument on the strength of the characters. That comment was addressed to Bormun on the subject of Dark Link getting into the contest. All I did was compare how Board 8 was nominating for the Dark characters. I did this because board 8 has a very solid influence on the nomination process, as opposed to other parts of the contest. So, basically, you should have read everything before making the assumption that it was made to comment on the strength.

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Nominate Dark Samus for the Spring 2005 Contest!

The thing is, HM, I believe that when SFF is involved the gap create grows exponentially based on the difference in character strength. Ganon SHOULD have been blasted by more SFF than Bowser. Seph is legitimately close to Cloud enough that their matches seem nearly SFF free (dispite the varying totals...) while the SFF between Cloud and Auron (who are even less related) is very noticable. I'd imagine Cloud would make Kefka look worse than AiAi given the opportunity.

"there's a lot that says the 2003 stats were pretty accurate"

They have been the basis of all our reasoning since they were created. That alone would lead us to believe that they fall closer to infallible simply because it's what we know. We could hold a 64 character contest 4 times a year and we'd still lack solid evidence for a lot of characters. Things like day of the week apparently have an effect on certain competitors, that's a scary thing since there's no way we can control that factor to prove or disprove it though we have evidence that potentially supports it. There are just too many variables to account for to assume all results are going to show what we want them to when taken transitively.
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"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

"She isn't just an empty shell made to rip off the main character in the series by any means."

She also has another name she goes by, and should go by if included.

"You might want to take the time to notice that the comment was not directed to you nor the argument on the strength of the characters."

Now you're just insulting me. I'm not an idiot, so don't imply that I am or that I am stupid enough to think that was what you were applying your statement towards. It was something to comment on, nothing more, nothing less. If you'd like me to not comment on any given statement you're welcome to say as much (and be completely ignored).
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"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

What about actually trying to find Dark Link's strength compared to other Zelda characters? Anyway, Ganondorf is widely recognized, but he was SFFed horribly because people seem to not like him all THAT much, except for the auto-respect from being part of the Zelda fanbase. Dark Link will have to more LIKED than Ganondorf to be stronger than him. It might not be hard to be more liked than Ganondorf, come to think of it...ouch.

The thing is, HM, I believe that when SFF is involved the gap create grows exponentially based on the difference in character strength. Ganon SHOULD have been blasted by more SFF than Bowser.
I do agree with that to an extent. However, when you get down to the extremes, I would think it gets relieved a bit, as it gets pretty darn tough to get characters at very low percentages. Link SFFed Yoshi worse than Fox, for instance, even though Yoshi's stronger than Fox. And, Cloud wouldn't make Kefka look like AiAi.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

"Cloud wouldn't make Kefka look like AiAi."

You know Crono made him look like CATS, right? That's not all that much further down while Cloud is quite a bit stronger than Crono. I agree that at the extremities it becomes much harder to push them lower but that's the nature of working within a box that's limited to 100% in either direction, it gets exponentially harder to push someone down the closer you get them to the bottom... at some point (say CATS level) they start to counteract eachother, at the Tanner level it gets near impossible to push them much further down. I'd actually expect Tanner do do slightly better than the math (if we had any reliable math, that is) says he should against Link, and I'm not convinced he'd lose to Mr. Driller.
---
"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

Between my 'tude and the time of night the thread has died. I suppose that it's time for me to leave then. Night all.
---
"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

You sure Tanner would do stronger than the stats suggest? I think he might do worse than the rankings suggest. After all, a lot of that 6% of the votes he received against Snake were probably joke votes or Snake anti-votes. If we took out those, we might have seen Tanner get 3% against Snake, for all we know. =p

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

For whatever reason, I think Tanner suffered some kind of fan-overlap with Solid Snake. Not to say he's suddenly respectable, but I'd take him over Serious Sam pretty quickly (though it'd probably be close).
---
Serious Reminder: Nominate Dr. Wily in 2k5
http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/contest/contest_nominate.php

I'd pick Serious Sam to beat Tanner, personally...at least Serious Sam has a big gun, and looks tough.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

I'm not suggesting he's stronger, I'm suggesting that it would be difficult for Link to get more against Tanner than Snake did because it's unlikely that the joke voters and actual fans would side with Link but not Snake. Basically he's pushing the bottom limit, and it would take a hell of a lot more effort, as it were, to force him any lower than what he got against Snake (which would mean an "underperformance" by Link).

I'm also suggesting that Mr. Driller is hitting that same limit, except that he is ranked based on his pathetic match against Serious Sam who was pathetic against MM which in a way relieves the "pressure" of a direct match up with a real powerhouse. Frankly I think against MM himself Mr. Driller would have looked much worse.

All things said, I don't think anybody could have made Tanner go very much lower, certianly not as low as the stats would predict, and I'd give him an entire extra 1% against Link than the XSt says, at the very least.
---
"He was hotter and more doable in Kingdom Hearts." - Ulti on Squall

I decided to check up on that, myself. According to the 2003 X-sts, Mario was suppose to get 59.44% on Bowser and ended up getting 70.65% on him. Link was expected to get 65.28% and ended up getting 87.9% on him.

The prior numbers are just based on their strength and not dealing with any SFF. Mario did 11.21% better than expected against Bowser (which can easily be contributed to SFF). Link, on the other hand, did 22.62% better than expected against Ganondorf (again, can be contributed to SFF).

What I meant by "doing more respectably" was not getting SFFed nearly as bad and having far more of a solid fanbase of his own instead of simply leeching completely off of Link/The Legend of Zelda like Ganondorf. Sure, Bowser may receive some, but to group him and Shadow into the same pool as Ganondorf makes no sense. Ganondorf is a perfect example of someone who rides on the series popularity moreso than anyone else.

that was exactly the point i was going to make. Ganondorf did worse than CATS. WORSE THAN FRIGGIN' CATS!!!! if that doesn't prove that he has a very small personal fan-base, i don't know what would. Ganon has fewer dedicated fans than CATS. so why does he perform so well against other characters? the rest of his votes must come from somewhere, right? based upon this, the rest of his votes must come from the only remaining place, which is fans of the legend of Zelda series who don't care about Ganon as a character; they just care that he is the villain from the Zelda series.

so if Ganondorf can pull that much contest strength just for being in the Zelda series, why couldn't Dark Link?
---
Nominate DUFF MCWHALEN for Spring2K5!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

All things said, I don't think anybody could have made Tanner go very much lower, certianly not as low as the stats would predict, and I'd give him an entire extra 1% against Link than the XSt says, at the very least.

i can agree with that. every loser character is going to get some sort of minimum votes form joke-voters, anti-voters, and people who always vote for the underdog. i doubt anyone could have pushed Tanner much lower than he already was, either.

---
Nominate DUFF MCWHALEN for Spring2K5!!
Trivia XIV: MEATWADD SUCKS!!

I think that every time we've thought that we'd hit the "bottom limit", something has come along and blown our thoughts on the bottom limit for performance away.

Some future match might repeat this process again.
---
In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

Frankly I think against MM himself Mr. Driller would have looked much worse.

I think this kind of contradicts what you said before about being near the minimum - it's easier for Serious Sam to beat Mr. Driller 60/40 than it is for Mega Man to push his opponent down from 8.16% to 6.74%. In general it's easier to look really horrible with a few more steps between a character and the champion.
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Nominate CATS, for great justice!

I agree with creativename... I think there's a good chance this contest will show us some characters even weaker than Tanner.
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SC2k4 Oracle ranking: 4th
Nominate CATS, for great justice!

In fact, come to think of it, it might happen in this contest - especially if it's 64 characters.

We all know how tough it is to think of enough villains to fill out a bracket that size, and how weak (compared to heroes) most of the villains will be.

Just imagine how pathetic the 64th ranked character in such a bracket would probably be. If a character that weak were to face Sephiroth (of somewhat comparable strength to the strongest heroes), or even Dark Samus, anti-votes might be the only thing keeping them above record-breaking levels of embarassment. There might even be some villain-SFF working against the weak character.

Now, most likely Sephiroth won't face the weakest character in the bracket; but he probably will face quite the weakling in the first round of a 64 character bracket, barring some seeding problems (i.e., a potentially strong character who didn't get many nominations because people didn't think of him, but just enough to make it in). Given such a match-up (Sephiroth vs. one of the weakest of the villains), unprecedented dominance might be possible in absence of anti-votes.

Hmm...I suppose Sephy's first match might then be a test of the the idea of FF7/Sephiroth anti-votes. So that would make it even more interesting, outside of the simple fun of seeing a bloodbath.
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In America, men flirt with women. In Shinra Midgar, Don Corneo flirts with YOU!

I could conceivably see Dark Link and Dark Samus turn into cases similar to Luigi too, though.
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SpC2K5 nominations: Kefka, Ganondorf, Bowser, Ridley, Eggman, Dark Samus, Mario, DK, CATS, Kerrigan

I agree with creativename... I think there's a good chance this contest will show us some characters even weaker than Tanner.

Possible, but Tanner was going up against Snake. There aren't going to be too many characters in this contest of Snake's calibre (three? four?) in order to put a huge initial beatdown on a character, no matter how weak they are. It'd require one character to get destroyed then have the winner get destroyed, possibly again. We're talking Serious Sam having done to Mr Driller as Mega Man did to Serious Sam, then maybe having a Mega Man-Link style match.
---
Jon Thomson - knows nothing
Nominate Ridley NOW!!!

Chichiri, people are much less likely to joke-vote in presidential elections than they are in a popularity contest in an on-line website.

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"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
- Darth Vader

I think the only two Noble Nine characters seriously hindered by anti-votes are Cloud and Sephiroth. Link broke 90% against Aiai, and his games broke 90% twice in the Spring Contest, not to mention reducing other games to ****.
---
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
- Darth Vader

*waits for TRE to tell us when CJayC posted the bracket*
---
Vote in the Spring Contest 2005 http://www.freewebs.com/springcontest2k5/

I'm waiting for TRE to tell us now when CJayC will post the bracket.
---
The Xbox has two modes: Off and Halo. Sony has everything else. ~UltimateralizerX

pfffffffffffffffffffft

TRE? Everyone knows only Ngamer can predict when CJay is going to put something online. That's why I'm here to tell you that the Spring 2005 Contest bracket will go online at

4:17 PM EST Wednesay, April 13, 2005

#1 seeds will be Sephiroth, Bowser, Ganondorf, and Kefka. No "dark" or "shadow" characters will make the field. It will be a 64 character tourney.

---
Support Perfect Dark! Nominate Mr. Blonde!
Ngamer's Contest Archives: geocities.com/cyber1166/gamefaqs

Weren't you like a month and a half late when predicting when CJayC would open up nominations for this thing?

~*ST*~
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

Yes he was. At least TRE is a supercomputer that can make calculated guesses.
---
The Xbox has two modes: Off and Halo. Sony has everything else. ~UltimateralizerX

I guess Chichiri is back on a more permament basis. >.>
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Yeah, because they can't have good memories of playing 4swords with some friends or think nostalgically about the hard as nails boss fight at the end of the second Zelda game when they kids. No way. Of course, that damn boss fight is one of my stronger memories of that game, given that as a kid I couldn't complete it no matter how many times I tried (and I tried a lot).

That's you. I would never have considered Dark Link if Ulti hadn't mentioned it last topic (or maybe it was the topic before). I still didn't end up nominating him, simply because there are so many other, better, villains out there.

Either one of you could be right about where people won't be thinking of Dark Link to nominate, but anecdotal stories from anyone here would prove next to nothing. One of you will likely be vindicated by the time the bracket comes around, so stop worrying about that...


---
Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Yeah, Chi is back in full form. Long live the Chi <3

~*ST*~
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 "Best. Game. Ever." Contest
"If my fate is to die, I must simply laugh!" -Magus Zeal

Calling him a chi makes me think of the Rally Monkey >_>
---
The Xbox has two modes: Off and Halo. Sony has everything else. ~UltimateralizerX

Even after hearing the story behind his name, I still sometimes type "she" when referring to Chichiri. <.<
---
Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

One of you will likely be vindicated by the time the bracket comes around, so stop worrying about that...

Let's just leave it at that. I don't feel like arguing anymore.
---
There is no looking back. There is nothing left for losers, so I must fight on. - Kratos Aurion
?????????????

Yes, truce, please. Arguments that don't involve me directly bore me.

I always call him Chichi. It just fits.
---
Official Queen ***** of the Universe!
Nominate Kerrigan, Albedo, and SHODAN!

Arguments that don't involve me directly bore me.

Is that why you try so hard to get into arguments?
---
Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri

Cool ranch and cheddar.

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Nominate Dark Samus for the Spring 2005 Contest!

That was perhaps the most random post I've seen you make...
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Vexilla regis prodeunt Inferni. ~ Dante Alighieri