Yes, I'm an alt of Ulti. Calm down.

As I type this, Crono is struggling to break a lead of 3000 votes on Mario. 3000. What a dud this match was.

***Stats websites***

Everything you could ever imagine:
http://www.sc2k4.com

Sortable Table for Every Contest Match:
http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php

Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/extrapolated.php

Summer 2002 Extrapotated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k2_extrapolated.htm

Summer 2003 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k3_extrapolated.htm

Character comparisons Between Summer 2002 and Summer 2003:
http://sc2k4.com/summer_comparisons.php

Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/spc2k4_extrapolated.htm

SFF Adjusted Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/spc2k4_extrapolated_sff.htm

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html

Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html

***Stats topics***

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)

2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.

Spring 2004 Pre-Season:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason3.htm

Spring 2004 Contest:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats3.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats4.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats5.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats6.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats7.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats8.htm

Creativename's Link Page:
http://sc2k4.com/links.php

***Miscellaneous***

MMXcalibur's Prophet Sites:
http://prophetchallenge.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/

Poll Vote Total Updator:
http://sc2k4.com/update.php (add "?pollid=[4-digit poll number]" at the end of url to look at charts from past polls)

Summer 2002 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15&page=2

Summer 2003 Match Pictures:
www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario0/contestpictures.htm

Spring 2004 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=2
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=3

Summer 2004 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18&page=2

!yawA tsoP
---
*is Ultimaterializer*
Lettuce Kefka is my God!!

Everyone knows who you are.

And yes, we were all right. Crono would win easily this year. I also notice that HM isn't around lately. :)

---
*is Lucid Faia*
Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

Damnit, I wanted to pretend to whine. =(
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

C'mon, your sig gives it away, you don't need to be redundantly redundant now, do you?
---
For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

Stupid n00b taking Ulti's topic and making it seem hard to break a 3000 vote lead. What's the world come to these days?
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

He lies! Kill him!

And yes, this match suxxorz.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Crono vs. Mario - Bracket: Crono - Vote: Mario (64/68)

Stupid trolls making new topics, I swear...

...and Mario/Crono isn't over yet. I'm not saying Mario will win, but this is Mario/Crono guys.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

*Tags topic*

And yes, this match was a dud...
---
Tanner. The only guy Gordon can call a loser and not sound like a hypocrite. - Slowflake

So depressing... I think I will stop following the match and just go play Disgaea for the next 8 or so hours.
---
Anxiously awaiting... CRONO vs. mario
GameFAQs Claim to Fame: 9 hours of Superman 64... and counting...

Like I said before, while Shadow Doom Blaze looks (and sounds) cool, it was a pretty bad attack. Well, at least it's relevant to today's match.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

We need this topic right about now =)
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

So did I, he's harder to beat too.

But of course Leonhart is entitled to his imaginations.

Cloud only seems harder to beat because he's more aggressive, so he requires your immediate attention. His moves are easy to dodge and easy to parry. Squall's more of a strategist. Neither of them are too difficult though because they have predictable patterns.

And yes, fighting Squall and Cloud at the same time in Kingdom Hearts was a dream come true.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Squall's not even concerned about Cloud because even he knows that Leon > Bat-Cloud. He doesn't need his gunblade to win.

I really want to know what you'll have to say after their match is over...

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

That match in Hard mode during the Hades Cup owned me three straight times. Most fun I've ever had getting my ass handed to me. :)
---
Theifenburg Uncertainty Principle - Without any witnesses, who's to say what happened?

I know Cloud's going to win, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to support Squall unwaveringly until the match is over.

However, if Cloud breaks 80% against Squall, you won't hear from me for a while because I'll be too disgusted/depressed to come around.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

If pictures matter, we will know in Frog vs Snake, won't we?

-Dabu

Think fast. Click faster.

Sword-wielding Frog vs. A piece of ****

^_^
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

If pictures matter, we will know in Frog vs Snake, won't we?

Indeed we will. If Frog breaks 40%, it'll prove looking like a piece of **** > name recognition.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Crono's % last update: 58.18%

^ From the last update in the updates topic.

Jesus....
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Hello. I don't imagine one of you fine gents would mind explaining to me the history of this epic duel, would you?
---
Remember: There are always four circles.

What happens if Frog DOES beat Snake because of this? Do we all start a mass uproar, or do we just nod our heads and smile?

I mean, obviously Sephiroth and Dante won't have any sprites (unless Sephiroth is in Chain of Memories), so Snake wouldn't have been an oddball with a MGS pic... Oh well. Staying tuned...


---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

*sigh* My heart sinks when I say this, but Mario lost. I wouldn't admit it, but by golly it's about to happen. I'm gonna go to bed on that note...and if CJay pulls some kind of stunt to let Mario win now (though I don't see it happening), I expect the boards to be filled with chaos and suicides when I wake up...plus I'll kick myself for not staying up.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

If Frog breaks 40%, it'll prove looking like a piece of **** > name recognition.

So true; even with Solid Snake dropping a lil' (assuming he did), Frog is too far away from Aeris to break 40% on Solid Snake in normal situations. So ya know, Aeris got 43.46% on Solid Snake in 2k2.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Random Thoughts...

Just saw the three new pictures. Who cares about Mega Man/Zero... gonna be a drubbing anyways. Is that Solid Snake... or a lump of ****? Worst. Picture. Ever. I think even Prince Ryu would agree. Shame Frog can't capitalize. But the fact that his masamune is the size of Solid **** cannot hurt.

If Frog wins, I will probably never come here again. Not because I do not think it will happen. But because I will be so happy, I will spare everyone here the extreme gloating I would do if this happened. I said from the second the bracket came out Frog would be a threat to solid. Seeing CJayC run out a picture of what is left in my toilet after a run to White Castle reassured this. If it materializes, off the top of my head steve illumina, zylo and I=gods. If it doesn't, blah, I'm a crackpot. No different than those touting Mega Man over Link. Except I've been lying in the weeds.

Why does Cloud have wings? Why doesn't Squall have a weapon? How is this fair? I mean, WFC anyways, it is going to be a drubbing. Just doesn't seem fair. Like bringing a knife to a gun fight. God I love that movie. I also love Disgaea. Only a chapter in, but the voice acting is so crappy, I just cannot stop laughing. And some of those lines are just classic. Unintentional comedy through the roof.
---
Anxiously awaiting... CRONO vs. mario
GameFAQs Claim to Fame: 9 hours of Superman 64... and counting...

If Frog somehow managed to beat Snake, there would be chaos, and for a few reasons. It would pretty much mean that Master Chief had catapulted himself into Top Ten status, and that's why I'm hoping Frog does well against Snake. I want MC to look better.

Also, about Cloud vs Squall, to me, Cloud is like fight me fight me, all ready and such, and Squall's just like, um, go away? I really hope Squall puts up an impressive performance. MegaMan Zero is cool, frog/snake is...not. and then squall/cloud is very cool.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

No, if Frog beats Snake, it just shows that pictures really do make a noticeable difference.

I wonder if Squall can put up a better performance by virtue of having a picture of "Leon," which makes him more recognizable to Kingdom Hearts fans.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

If Frog somehow managed to beat Snake, there would be chaos, and for a few reasons. It would pretty much mean that Master Chief had catapulted himself into Top Ten status, and that's why I'm hoping Frog does well against Snake. I want MC to look better.

I'd love to see Master Chief do well too, but Frog is NOT on Aeris's level. Also, I like and nominated Solid Snake, so I gotta vote for him instead of helpin' Frog look good against him (though I also nominated MC).

MC will be Top Twenty this year, and will vastly improve next year. Mark my words.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Dante won't have any sprites

Dante was in VJ PS2, that might count.

Yeah, we'll probably get VJ Dante. Auron doesn't have a sprite though, and Sephiroth hasn't been confirmed for Chain of Memories if he's even in it.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I think that's Cloud's best pic EVER in this contest... even better than the first Bat-Cloud. With that pic I would vote Cloud over anyone... even Zelda 10 Link riding at him on Epona. ????? Or maybe not..... I should push for a Link on Epona pic in the finals. Whoever he's up against, it would be the best pic ever...

Speaking of Epona, I'm pushing to get her nominated for next year. In a favorable matchup too... Can you imagine Epona in the second round with the close up pics???? Everyone nominate Epona next year!
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Pfft. Wishful thinking, Leonheart.

Squall will be on the wrong end of of Cloud's masking-tape-covered sword. I imagine he'll get below 20%, but who knows? Maybe the rumors about Square SFF not being as severe as Nintendo's are true.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Me thinks the only thing Link could ride in order to take out Bat Cloud is Zelda. Ooh, or Yoshi. Because MASS LINKSHIs=INSTANT WIN.
---
Anxiously awaiting... CRONO vs. mario
GameFAQs Claim to Fame: 9 hours of Superman 64... and counting...

If you throw out Sora/Aeris as being completely screwed up to the point where we don't know what happened, Square SFF is generally more mild than Nintendo SFF.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Or maybe not..... I should push for a Link on Epona pic in the finals. Whoever he's up against, it would be the best pic ever...

Like this:

http://boollette.free.fr/images/zelda/link%20epona.jpg

???

That would kick ass. =)


Speaking of Epona, I'm pushing to get her nominated for next year. In a favorable matchup too... Can you imagine Epona in the second round with the close up pics???? Everyone nominate Epona next year!

Epona would pwn everyone with at least 75%. ;)
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

MM vs. Zero = cool pic
Frog vs. Snake = worst.pic.ever.
Cloud vs. Squall = OMG is Cloud gonna kick the snot outta Squall. I'm in no way a Cloud fan and even I think that pic rocks.
---
<reptile-> The first time hypr opened a box of Cheerios and looked inside he yelled, "OH WOW! DONUT SEEDS!"
<hypr> wtf are donut seeds

Squall's picture beats the **** out of Cloud's, though.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

That it does. But KH Sephiroth > both of them.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Estuans Interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
ira vehementi
Sephiroth
Sephiroth

I'm so bored...

---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

No word from Ceej, so it's now official - Crono has beaten Mario. 38.31% thought he would do it.
---
Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon God: Zenithian heroine Sofia faces off against God Emperor Fou-Lu at www.rpgdl.com.

The match didn't even get the magic 100,000 number. =(

Still though, it does have the highest votes of any match so far. Average votes per round are currently at 95,077 - a huge improvement from the Spring's abysmal Round 3 average of 77,269.

Current average votes for the contest are at 82,099 votes.
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

38.31%? That's it?

Stats can be such liars.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Holy **** my Prophet Challenge was close to being dead on.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Score-Brackets-% Right
68----1--------100.0000000
67----12-------66.6666667
66----28-------78.5714286
65----107------65.4205607
64----170------69.4117647
63----245------67.7551020
62----309------59.2233010
61----362------59.9447514
60----458------56.5502183
59----653------58.8055130
58----827------52.1160822
57----1018-----51.3752456
56----1354-----49.7784343
55----1462-----46.2380301
54----1797-----45.1307735
53----1868-----41.8094218
52----2152-----41.4962825
51----2243-----39.8127508
50----2184-----38.3241758
49----2093-----38.5093168
48----2031-----36.8783850
47----1698-----34.9823322
46----1586-----31.7780580
45----1446-----32.6417704
44----1305-----29.5785441
43----992------27.7217742
42----833------28.2112845
41----701------26.1055635
40----593------25.4637437
39----493------21.0953347
38----374------20.8556150
37----310------20.0000000
36----254------17.3228346
35----210------17.6190476
34----179------12.8491620
33----153------13.0718954
32----111------14.4144144
31----111------7.2072072
30----77-------15.5844156
29----59-------5.0847458
28----41-------9.7560976
27----40-------7.5000000
26----35-------17.1428571
25----15-------13.3333333
24----22-------4.5454545
23----9--------0.0000000
22----8--------0.0000000
21----8--------12.5000000
20----6--------16.6666667
19----2--------50.0000000

Nobody with a score of 18 or less got the match right. The top tiers did quite a bit better than the average. Overall this match was done worse than in 2003, yet still better if you consider the fact that Crono and not Mario won this time around.

Mario vs Crono 2003
Score-Brackets-% Right
80----0--------N/A
79----0--------N/A
78----0--------N/A
77----3--------66.6666667
76----16-------81.2500000
75----19-------78.9473684
74----48-------68.7500000
73----89-------75.2808989
72----107------74.7663551
71----170------75.8823529
70----255------81.5686275
69----323------77.7089783
68----463------71.7062635
67----643------79.0046656
66----775------77.6774194
65----878------77.2209567

Only 11 people fell off the top 50 today. tomguycot, imdapartystar, neoatomtaco, Bizkit047, dan81, NT220, Tjian, LexisTheGenius, yugi3959, acfreek and donoso did not have Crono winning this match.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Well, now that we're passed that match, there are 101 people ahead of me in the rankings. Two people in the top 50 have Mega Man winning. I have to hope they both did something questionable in the remaining 13 matches. It seems like the only realistic difference they could have in their brackets is putting Sephiroth over Cloud (and really, who is going to have Mega Man over SEPHIROTH in their final?) I'll be a little disappointed if I'm somehow actually right the rest of the way, Mega Man wins it, and I'm still not at the top of the standings.

Maybe I'll be REALLY lucky, and both those guys put Sonic over Samus. =)

---
Contest Winner: Mega Man | Score: 68/72
Current Oracle ranking: 4th | Pick: Mega Man with 70.5%

(and really, who is going to have Mega Man over SEPHIROTH in their final?)

Z1mZum, for one, one of the three still-in-it Gurus who have Mega in the finals.
---
Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon God: Zenithian heroine Sofia faces off against God Emperor Fou-Lu at www.rpgdl.com.

Zero puts up 40%, I guess a lot of people prefer Zero. This isn't the SFF thrashing I expected. Is Mega Man still in a position to take out Link?
---
Current score 59/72 :( Next match: Mega Man

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Umm... wow. Guess being a playable character in a non-RPG environment and having your own series is enough to combat SFF. oO

---
Also, the women all have beards. Either that, or there are no dwarven women. Yeah, I could see that. This is Suikoden after all. -http://videogamerecaps.com

Yay, *finally* into the top 1000. T-833, but I really can't see any major climb before Cloud-Sephiroth unfortunately. Still, staying -8 until match 59 is better than I thought I'd do, and if Seph pulls that one off...
---
Jon Thomson - today: Mega Man, tomorrow: Solid Snake - 64/72
Nominate Ridley for Summer Contest 2005

Man this stinks, not even 10th place? Man you don't get money for 11th. :( All I can hope is that some of the top 10ers have mistakes in this round.
---
Hylian Knight Forever
SC2k4 Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b52.jpg

...Ahahahahaahahaahahahahahahahaaha

*breathes*

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

*hyperventilates a bit*

XD XD XD XD

Seriously...
---
Chaos Knight-Cerebral Insomniac of the CoS
summoner? wtf! summoner=Yuna Taru=midgit GaryPayton LA

Ok what the heck CJayC, why is it so hard to give Mega Man a picture from the X series, having X wearing his armor from X2 vs. Zero would be the best character ever. From now on I'm nominating X, if Mega's only gonna get original pics.
---
Current SC2K4 Score: 65/68
COWS are for Milking, not GAMES

Wow.. I thought there would be a bashing but this is rather close considering "extreme SFF involved" ... But it doesn't seem like there are much, if any..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

hahaha.. What the **** did CjayC do with Snake's picture? .. Oh my goodness, that has to be the worst picture I have seen, even worse than the Ryu Hayabusa pic.. Sheesh!!!

Cloud's pic looks freaking awesome.. That picture owns.. IMO, he has the pic advantage over Squall..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

I think this might ruin the chances of Megaman beating Link.. I didn't think it would happen, and now I still don't think it will happen..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

holy wow.

Zero is doing incredible! i expected a massive SFF beating. instead he's still over 41%. according to the x-stats, Zero would've been expected to get 43.11% on Megaman without any SFF.

wait a sec..... does this mean Zero is stronger than both Tidus and Shadow the Hedgehog now? 0_o

go Zero!!

---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

He used a Cloud pic from Chain of Memories!

WHOAMG! Now, I'm gonna have to vote Cloud. Just because of that pic... *hangs head in shame*
---
I chose the road less traveled -- now where the heck am I?
A Picture Is Worth 1,000 Words, But It Uses Up a Thousand Times the Memory

and i dunno if anyone posted this in the last topic, but here are the unadjusted X-stats for the two halves of the Hyrule Division:

Hyrule Upper

50.00% Link
18.62% Yoshi
16.95% Luigi
12.17% CATS
12.10% Ganondorf
10.93% Pac-Man
10.37% Alucard
08.79% Ryo Hazuki

Hyrule Lower

50.00% Crono
46.76% Mario
30.22% Magus
27.45% Bowser
22.01% Conker
15.39% JC Denton
11.46% Luca Blight
09.34% Guybrush Threepwood

heh, it looks like CATS is gonna wind up in 9th or 10th place in his division. that's messed up. and at least Ganondorf won't wind up in the 60th-64th range overall.

---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

oh, and one more thing i noticed:


47 owen2003uk 69 Sonic the Hedgehog

how the freak do you get on the Top 50 this late in the contest with Sonic winning it all?

---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

O_O

Either the match against Tidus was a fluke, Tidus and Shadow fell proportionally, or this is a fine case of reverse SFF if Megaman really is on par with Clinkeroth.

Looks like Zero's gonna nab that 10th place right under everyone's noses.

Mario lost by 6000 votes... *cries* But hey, I'm STILL in the top 1000 after the majority of the upper tier picked Crono. I'M INDESTRUCTIBLE!!!
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Tidus underperformed against Mega Man. I've said it all along. The more I thought about it, the less likely it seemed that Zero would suffer from a lot of SFF. After all, he's got his own place among the Mega Man faithful, and his own series.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Just wait for next round
---
Summer 2004 Contest 61/72 Mega Man vs. Zero

There could be a slight case of reverse SFF, but I'd rather say this is nearly NO SFF. Isn't Zero doing about what he's supposed to do? I actually prefer Zero to Mega Man myself ever since I played X4. I never really got into the later Mega Man series, and once Zero got a solo role in a Mega Man game, it was OVA! But that doesn't mean reverse SFF because I would vote Zero over a lot of people in this contest....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

This isn't actually that surprising. Zero isn't someone who thrives off of Mega Man's popularity like other characters we've seen from other series. He is a playable character within the X series, has branched out to have a very highly acclaimed series of his own, and is the resident "badass" of Mega Man universe.


I love the good performance from him today, but there's absolutely no reason to believe this would ruin his chances against Link. I even said earlier that the SFF in this match shouldn't be massive at all, simply because Zero doesn't ride on Mega Man's popularity.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Without a Megaman boost, Megaman should be doing 57% or such.

With a boost though, he should have around 65%.

He's increasing rapidly, so we shouldn't pass judgment just yet.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Zero did do better with the night vote in both instances rather than with the day vote, so Mega Man should end with over 60% in this match.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Damn, I was hoping more of the Link brackets above me would have picked Mario....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

At last...the match I have been waiting for is tomorrow...the match where my Theory of Frogability will be proven to be law...as Frog, the 2nd pride of Chrono Trigger, will take out the overrated Snake.

With Chrono defeating Mario by around 3000 votes...it is only fitting that Frog will beat Snake by 100 or less. But in the end, a win is a win, and Frog will win the day.

And once that happens, nearly all of the 219 brackets above me will lose 4 points, and my top ten status will be all but assured thanks to the greatest upset in tourney history...and the glory of Steve Illumina will be known forevermore on Board 8.

If every RPG/Square/FF/Chrono lover looks into their heart of hearts and sees the truth, they will never vote Snake over Frog. Be true to thine selves, dear fanboys and fangirls. Thou shalt do right, and not the wrong, this day. Vote with thy hearts, and vote for Frog!
---
Steve Illumina: The Elite Satirist of GameFAQ's
Scores Above Me: 219 SC2K4: 67/72 (GO FROG!)

It saddens me to see Frog's position in that match. ;_;
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Wow Mario lost by 6000.... I just saw that in this thread!

That means for sure Froggy cannot fail! :)
---
Steve Illumina: The Elite Satirist of GameFAQ's
Scores Above Me: 219 SC2K4: 67/72 (GO FROG!)

Hey HM...do you still have your little Mega Man road to victory thread? I wanted to look over a couple matches.
---
Official member of the Ghaleon Awareness Movement

Wow, really poor performance by MM here.

Reverse SFF?
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Frog win this 60-40 with that picture. :(

Almost makes me wonder what it would look like if it were Liquid vs Solid.

-Dabu

Think fast. Click faster.

Guys, Last year snake had a worse sprite pic than this year, and he had know problem beating ryu. ryu got like 42% on snake, and we all know ryu >>> frog.
---
: Super Luigi: the love child of Edgerrin James and Whoopi Goldberg. Manning should've been the solo MVP.

No*
---
: Super Luigi: the love child of Edgerrin James and Whoopi Goldberg. Manning should've been the solo MVP.

Snake also had his pic in the background to help out....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Gah, why couldn't Ceej have just used the Game Boy MGS sprite? It's far, FAR better looking than this.

I thought the exact same thing, MA.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Disappointing performance from Mega Man today. Only 3% SFF if he hasn't changed, and if Mega has changed and there's no SFF, he only goes up to 41.5% on Link. Mega needs to do something major with the day vote.

Looks like Zero might grab 10th place after all.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Well, if Megaman really went up, I think that Zero can climb into the Noble Nine with these numbers.
---
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita - mi ritrovai per una selva oscura - che la diritta via era smarrita

Meh.. I think the picture for tomorrow's contest kinda stinks for both sides.

Frog hasn't been that impressive in his first two rounds so far.. I think Snake should be able to pull off a comfortable win. I just feel that Snake would've been able to beat Liquid and MC nicely, while Frog had to wait until late to pull out his wins.
---
SC2K4 Prediction: Cloud over Crono
SC2K5 Prediction: Crush from WWF Wrestlefest(Arcade) over Raine Sage!

Except Zero wasn't Noble Nine quality against Vercetti.

But yeah, his chances to clinch 10th look good. His closest competitors were snubbed, SFF, Tidus and Shadow. Almost all that's left are Auron and Squall... if they don't get SFFed, that is.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Zero is looking really good and he can blame SFF for not doing better. Go Zero!!!
---
Sora and Andel both defeated me in the Summer Contest.58/62

Zero's performance today guarantees that Tidus won't be getting that 10th spot. I think #10 now comes down to Zero and Ryu, unless Squall and Auron can avoid SFF.

Again, I didn't expect SFF to be very much in this match. CJayC can say that Classic represents all forms of Mega Man all he wants, but he obviously doesn't seem to think so himself. I think it's the same way with the fans. Classic and X are separate entities, and I think the results would be different if it were X vs. Zero instead.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Zero would have won over X, or at least make it closer.

Anyway I think Sora, Ryu(SF) and Zero are the only guys that can get the 10th spot.

Dante is strong and all but I don't see him get more votes against anyone then Ryu.

Frog is....Well Frog is.....not doing as good as I want him to do. (Tomorrow goes my top50 dreams unless Frog somehow wins over Solid Snake).

Auron and Squall may not suffer that much of SFF, but enough to not reach the top 10.

Sora however seems to be a powerhouse and I think he will get at least 40% on Samus (But then agian I thought the same about Tidus).

Ryu got 44% on a noble nine character, that's not as good as Zero but still good.

Zero looks to gain %. And if he reach more then 42%votes then he will be great.

The winner of the Sonic VS Samus fight will likely do good against Clinkeroth and will therefore boost Ryu and Sora.


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Sora and Andel both defeated me in the Summer Contest.68/72

The winner of the Sonic VS Samus fight will likely do good against Clinkeroth and will therefore boost Ryu and Sora.

Well, that's what we were saying after Mega Man destroyed Tidus. The difference between him and Zero isn't very large at all, and the Blue Bomber's current performance is vastly different from last round. How Samus does against Sora will tell the tale.

Everyone has an ideal opponent that they can perform better than usual again, and vice-versa. Tidus can hold his own against anyone who's not elite, methinks. I suppose it's sort of the same with Donkey Kong. He has a solid fanbase, but he's not beloved enough that the majority will stick with him no matter what.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I'd give up my bracket to see Frog beat Snake. He should pull over 40%. Master Chief is about Frog's level, and since MC probably boosted from last year a match between MC/Frog/Liquid Snake and Knuckles would be interesting.
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Lonely Angel
Summer 2004 Contest Prediction: Match 51: Mega Man wins 66.86%-33.14%

If Frog wins tomorrow, it is all because of Snake's picture

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

This is awesome. It pretty much means that Zero could not only beat Tidus, Shadow, Ganondorf, and Magus of all people, but beat them convincingly.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

This is awesome. It pretty much means that Zero could not only beat Tidus, Shadow, Ganondorf, and Magus of all people, but beat them convincingly.

I am not sure if he can beat Magus him, nontheless beat him convincingly.. It'll be interesting to see though.. Close matchup.

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Snake should still do just fine. After all, the name "Solid Snake" will still be appearing among the voting choices.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

I'm *praying* that frog wins by more than 93 votes. That would make the contest for me, seeing liquid above solid.

(has solid in bracket)
---
Score: 53/56
Chaos Picks: Sonic, Dante, Ryu, Samus

well, I guess "more than 93" would have to be with equal vote totals. Change that to, get a higher percentage
---
Score: 53/56
Chaos Picks: Sonic, Dante, Ryu, Samus

I hope Solid Snakes, and I believe Solid Snake should beat Frog. I don't want my bracket to get ruined now. *shakes fist at sephiroth's chances of beating Cloud*
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Hylian Knight Forever
SC2k4 Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

Sephiroth WILL beat Cloud. Book it.



Well, probably not, but I can dream >_>


Also; Squall will do decent, I see him getting over 25% of the vote. If he gets under 20% I will lose all fai....oh wait, I have no faith in GameFAQs users.
---
SC2K4 Score: 70/72(Yoshi) Next Tough Pick: Sephiroth over Cloud
FF7>>>>me.

Hey hey Mr. Book it, never count anyone out ever, no matter what the 'experts' say or what 'board 8' says. Don't believe the first place guy, don't believe me for saying Cloud. Anything can happen as demonstrated throughout this contest to the dismay of many.
---
Hylian Knight Forever
SC2k4 Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

Zero near up to 41%
---
<reptile-> The first time hypr opened a box of Cheerios and looked inside he yelled, "OH WOW! DONUT SEEDS!"
<hypr> wtf are donut seeds

Yeah, I guess Zero is strong. And he still couldn't take down Sonic. And people thought MAGUS could do it. Zero's technically showing more strength than Magus, who himself only came marginally close to Sonic. Maybe Sonic should remain in the noble nine after all.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Of course, Tidus could have just dropped like a rock...
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

In any case, Megaman's case for the championship went from being a faraway hope, to a plausible situation, and finally, just a pipe dream.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

I think Snake should be kicked out of the noble nine before Sonic based on his performance this year. He gave up 40% to Knuckles whos weaker than Shadow whos weaker than Sonic. I could easily see Sonic beating him.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Link
Status: 58/64 Next Pick: Link

Wow, Zero's picking up percentage points very fast. Is this reverse SFF, or has Mega Man been overperforming in past matches?
---
I'd much rather be elitist than an idiot with a misconception that generalizes an entire board.~Bender1616
ZSB [aX]

This is awesome. It pretty much means that Zero could not only beat Tidus, Shadow, Ganondorf, and Magus of all people, but beat them convincingly.

Zero vs. Magus would be a good match, but I don't think you can say Zero would beat Magus decisively based on the results of two SFF matches.

On a more general level, why do the Extrapolated Standings work? If A beats B with 60% and A beats C with 70%, all you know for sure is that 10% of people prefer B to C. C could still theoretically beat B 90/10. The reason we can assume a 62.5/37.5 split for B over C is that given a large sample size and independent variables (character preferences), we can assume the preferences are distributed proportionally (based on the two data points we have). SFF is a situation where our variables (character preferences) aren't independent, thus our assumptions don't hold. We can't extrapolate based on that data, and we also can't assume just because the split is close to what we would expect it to be if the variables were independent that there's no "SFF".
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Contest Winner: Mega Man | Score: 68/72
Current Oracle ranking: 4th | Pick: Mega Man with 70.5%

Moltar's First Thoughts on: Mega Man vs. Zero

Woke up and checked the polls this morning, and all I got to say is...

Mega man WILL NOT beat Link.

Failing to SFF your opponent not even a little bit is not good. Zero was projected to get around 43% on Mega, and instead he is getting 41.5% right now. Even if Mega is not SFF'ing Zero, it shows that either Tidus and Shadow dropped, or Mega over-performed in the match. Not good for the Blue Bomber...not good at all. And if Zero can do this, then Snake will get also land around 57-58% on Mega. Now lets look at these match pics.

http://gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b51.jpg

Looks pretty cool. I like Zero's more than Mega's...wonder why I didn't vote for him instead.

http://gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b52.jpg

Frog looks meh. That is a nice sword he's got there, and his opponent...um...THAT'S supposed to be Snake? More like "Solid ****" God, and I thought Ceej couldn't get any worse than Melting Man Snake. *sigh*

http://gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b53.jpg

Woah, Bat Cloud + Sword = Bye bye Squall. Nice Cloud pic, while Squall got screwed over. He's just standing there waiting to die.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

If it materializes, off the top of my head steve illumina, zylo and I=gods.

Off the top of the head, I would ****ing win the contest. I am -1 right now and have Frog coming to the Leet Eight. But of course I will be pathetically downgraded tomorrow...
---
Current Elite Eight:
Link~ Crono~ Zero~ Frog~ Cloud Strife~ Auron~ Sonic~ Sora

20XX Division: Round 3 - Match 52 – (6)Frog vs. (2)Solid Snake

Moltar’s Analysis

Frog - First a Liquid Snake, and now a Solid one…just great…

Round 1 – vs. Liquid Snake (Frog: 50.05% - Liquid: 49.95%)
Round 2 – vs. Master Chief (Frog: 50% - MC: 50%)

This guy makes DK’s matches look like blow-outs. Frog beats MC by 7 votes to move onto Round 3.

Solid Snake - The first thing that comes to mind after you say this is…

Round 1 – vs. Tanner (Snake: 94.30% - Tanner: 5.70%)
Round 2 – vs. Knuckles (Knuckles: 40.46% – Snake: 59.54%)

Knuckles is finally able to break 60% on Snake. Of course, this doesn’t make Snake look too good.

Man…that Frog was too over-hyped. He’s caused two heart-attack matches already. Good thing this was as far as most people have him going. If he could barely get past Liquid, there is no chance in hell that he will beat Solid. Solid though, will have to make his win convincing, espically after his less-than-stellar performance last round.

Moltar’s Bracket Says: Snake will win.

Moltar’s Prediction is: Frog 37% - Snake 63%



Ulti's Analysis

Frog won his first two matches by a combined 100 votes, one of them being against Liquid Snake.

"I'm a whole different game from Liquid!"

Ulti's Bracket/Prediction - Snake/Snake with 55.01%

---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

I'd be more willing to base Mega Man's strength on Tidus/Shadow instead of an SFF match with Zero. This does not look good for the Blue Bomber, but I'm waiting for a match with Snake before I call him out due to poor SFF results.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

This match can say 2 things (one of which im wuite happy ot hear)

1. This is our first real case of reverse SFF
and if it isn't

2. Sonic should remain int he Noble Nine because this would have him get 45% on MM (or at least around that percentage)
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We should stop importing foreign oil. We should just get it from Mexico! George W. Bush

This isn't actually that surprising. Zero isn't someone who thrives off of Mega Man's popularity like other characters we've seen from other series. He is a playable character within the X series, has branched out to have a very highly acclaimed series of his own, and is the resident "badass" of Mega Man universe.


Magus.
---
Current Elite Eight:
Link~ Crono~ Zero~ Frog~ Cloud Strife~ Auron~ Sonic~ Sora

Magus has his own series?

..That'd be pretty sweet.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Tag
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See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

But this match not showing any SFF has got me thinking. Could the Megaman X and the original Megaman series fanbase be that different? And if so, would Megaman X actually fare differently in the contest than the original Megaman?
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Links to newest pics aside from Frog/Snake please?

Thank you.
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Hylian Knight Forever
SC2k4 Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

I hate to say "wait for the match against Snake" because I've been yelling at people who want to wait for Samus' match against Sonic, but SFF does weird things. We all saw Mega beat the snot out of Tidus/Shadow last round, let's wait til we get another nonSFF match to start passing judgement. We've never seen Capcom SFF before, maybe it's capable of going in reverse. This does seem to indicate that X would do very well in this contest, though.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

X would do incredibly well. I'm a die hard Link fan, and I tell you if there was a sweet X picture like the one HM made (if you did indeed make that pic then bravo good man, bravo) it would be TERRIBLY hard for me to not vote X, my childhood gaming friend. :P
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Hylian Knight Forever
SC2k4 Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

Heh, o well, at least I don't have to be pressured like that this year....
---
Hylian Knight Forever
Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

Who thinks Samus could really stir things up? I personally think she's an upset waiting to happen.
---
Currently Supporting: Link and Samus in the Summer Contest
"I do read sometimes." Mat Cauthon, The Wheel of Time.

Who thinks Samus could really stir things up? I personally think she's an upset waiting to happen.

*raises hand*
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

*also raises hand*

I still don't expect her to beat Cloud/Seph, but it's not far fetched as it seemed...
---
I chose the road less traveled -- now where the heck am I?
A Picture Is Worth 1,000 Words, But It Uses Up a Thousand Times the Memory

I'm not a fan of Megaman, but imo this is just more good for Zero than bad for Megaman. I agree with heroic mario that is doesn't destroy Megaman's chances of taking out Link, and that his tidus/megaman results are more important. Because this is a sff match, whatever way the sff goes. But Tidus wasn't, so this isn't good for megaman, but its not all that bad either.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

In any case, Megaman's case for the championship went from being a faraway hope, to a plausible situation, and finally, just a pipe dream.

You've just shown how people go from one thing to another based on match results that they don't expect. I stated a couple of topics earlier that Zero shouldn't get SFFed very much, if at all during this match. He's not a sidekick in the X series and he even has his own very popular, high selling series on the GBA. Zero has a prominent role in the X games and has plenty of a fanbase that isn't based on Mega Man's popularity--unlike every other character within the "hero's" series.


I wouldn't dare say this says anything against Mega Man or for Mega Man. The best way to judge is wait until he faces Solid Snake next round. There's nothing anyone can base off of a match with SFF and Zero getting it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest from the reasons I've stated earlier.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Yeah, Zero shouldn't be SFFed much.

The problem is that for Megaman to look as strong as his Tidus performance would suggest, not only would Zero not have to get SFFed, but he'd need some pretty major SFF in his favor. Considering that this % is almost exactly what the XP stats predicted minus SFF for last year's Megaman and Zero isn't convincing either.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

There's Ulti reacting a little too spontaneously again. I'll remind you that the Zero we saw against Vercetti was exactly the same as last year's, no more, no less.

There's a good reason why I won't crucify you for saying "wait for the next match" with Megaman as I would if you said it for Samus: matches like this are even more volatile than top tiers vs. lower midcarders. If Megaman can get 60% against Snake, he stands a good chance to contend with Link (not beat him, it'd take 65% to do that). But if he does only marginally better than last year (or worse, worse), then he's doomed.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Mega man WILL NOT beat Link.

Really? I love how you base results out of a SFF match. This match would say nothing about the future final four match against Link. Nothing.

Failing to SFF your opponent not even a little bit is not good.

When the opponent comes from a very popular X series, isn't a sidekick, has his own series, his own fans, and is the resident "badass" of the series would mean Mega Man had to have SFF against Zero? Not a chance. There are plenty of people who would vote Mega Man later, but during the current match vote Zero.

Zero was projected to get around 43% on Mega, and instead he is getting 41.5% right now.

That's assuming Mega Man did not change. I heavily disagree with him not changing after seeing the last round; yet some people here change on a dime even when they know it has to deal with SFF.

And if Zero can do this, then Snake will get also land around 57-58% on Mega. Now lets look at these match pics.

This doesn't say a damn thing about Solid Snake vs Mega Man. To think it has any relevance at all is asinine.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Eh, I can't think of anything positive for Mega here.

Even if there is no SFF in this match, Mega is only doing a little better than last year, still nowhere near Link levels. I'll still wait until Mega/Snake to make any final decisions, but I am pretty confident Mega is losing to Link.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

I don't think we can reconcile this with Mega/Tidus. The two explanations are Tidus/Shadow dropped majorly, or Zero/Vercetti/Max rose quite a bit. Neither make any sense to me, so I'm not going to worry about it.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

And hey, what's with Zero gaining percentage like crazy for the last few hours? Just checked the update script.

Plus, what's the difference in looks between Megaman and X? I don't see anything major...
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

If this is SFF for Zero, this just begs the question even more. Where the hell is the X pic for this match? It's as good a time as any to use it. And if Zero can take this many votes away from Megaman, then X has got to be damn popular himself.

Megaman representing all forms of Megaman my ass. I'm nominating X next year for the hell of it. And I won't stop nominating him until I see an X pic used at least once.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Ok, I'll give that to you HM. It's good to see you defend you winner so strong and passionately. I'd do the same for Cloud, even though I don't care for him much.

Then again, this isn't even an issue for me to get into an argument about...
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

Yeah, Zero shouldn't be SFFed much.

If at all, and him getting reverse SFF wouldn't be surprising in the least considering his resume within the series.

The problem is that for Megaman to look as strong as his Tidus performance would suggest, not only would Zero not have to get SFFed, but he'd need some pretty major SFF in his favor.

Mega Man would need to get around ~65% in this match based on the match against Tidus with no SFF involved.

If Megaman can get 60% against Snake, he stands a good chance to contend with Link (not beat him, it'd take 65% to do that). But if he does only marginally better than last year (or worse, worse), then he's doomed.

It wouldn't take 65% to "contend" with Link; instead it'd be more around 63-64% against Snake (2002).

I'll still wait until Mega/Snake to make any final decisions, but I am pretty confident Mega is losing to Link.

Like everyone here should. Anyone who goes out and decides to base future results on SFF would be stupid. The absolute best thing to do is wait until the division finals where we know exactly what he should get and won't have to deal with SFF one way or the other.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

You nominate X? Then I'll nominate LoZ Link, LttP Link, OoT Link and Wind Waker Link next time. Works both ways.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Trust me when I say mega man x is far more badass than mega man. Just do a google search. X equipped with his armor upgrades from each consecutive game > mega man.

Oh and I don't care what HM or anyone says. No matter how close mega gets, I wouldn't expect him to win. Samus COULD stir things up, but I'd say it's a good bet the finals will be Link vs Cloud/Sephy.
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Hylian Knight Forever
Score: 70/72 Rank: 11th

You nominate X? Then I'll nominate LoZ Link, LttP Link, OoT Link and Wind Waker Link next time. Works both ways.

I see your point, and I see Ceej's point in not letting X in, but they are two different robots. At least from what I can surmise, haven beaten X-X3. I'm sure HM can say more on the matter.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

You nominate X? Then I'll nominate LoZ Link, LttP Link, OoT Link and Wind Waker Link next time. Works both ways.


Pic used of LoZ Link? Check

Pic used of OoT Link? Check

Pic used of Wind Waker Link? Check.

Pic used of Megaman X? No check.

It doesn't help that they're two entirely different people.

Link pretty much does the same things in every game in a different universe.

Megaman X is the same as Megaman as much as Zero is the same as Protoman.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

You may be nominating X next year, but I'll remind you that many people already do. An X nomination (alongside a Megaman one, most likely) is a wasted nomination.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

The difference between X and Mega Man isn't much at first with NORMAL X, but power up X with all of his armor and you'd become a believer...

Heroic Mario, how can you agree that Zero has his own fanbase, but then say that this match doesn't mean anything in terms of Mega Man fighting Snake or Link? There may be some SFF or may not, but if people can measure up characters from fights like Cloud/CATS or Link/CATS, they damn sure can extract some information from this match.
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"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I know it's a wasted nomination and it won't accomplish anything. That's why I said "for the hell of it" Quite clearly, I'm doing it out of spite. Until I see X used.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

I don't think we can reconcile this with Mega/Tidus. The two explanations are Tidus/Shadow dropped majorly, or Zero/Vercetti/Max rose quite a bit. Neither make any sense to me, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Or maybe Zero is benefiting from SFF in this match? Why hasn't anyone bothered to bring that up? I've already given you some rough points as to why he could easily get it himself. Then again, I don't think this match is really worth looking at for anything really. No one could make a decent conclusion based off of this one.

And hey, what's with Zero gaining percentage like crazy for the last few hours? Just checked the update script.

This would be the second time Zero's done some major gaining in a match with a Mega Man character. The first was against Protoman and now with Mega Man.

Plus, what's the difference in looks between Megaman and X? I don't see anything major...

Looks? X is more sleek, and looks more advanced as opposed to the original Mega Man. I'll show you a picture of both in sprite form:

X: http://img87.exs.cx/img87/265/megamanx.gif
Mega Man: http://img87.exs.cx/img87/6115/megaman.gif

If this is SFF for Zero, this just begs the question even more. Where the hell is the X pic for this match?

I'm tellin' ya. This match just reeked of having X in there to give the match a better feel. Looks like this totally contradicts his "Mega Man represents all forms," statement.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Incidentally, Mega Man [Tidus] would be expected to get 65.85% on Zero, so this is nearly 8% off that value. I don't know what to make of it, so I'm not going to try.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

For the semifinals, CJayC needs to pull what he did in the 2002 finals.

Imagine LoZ Link, LttP Link, OoT Link and WW Link going up against Megaman, X, Volnutt, and .EXE. FF7 Cloud, Bat-Cloud, and AC Cloud against Metroid Samus, SM Samus, Prime Samus and Fusion Samus. Yikes.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Heroic Mario, how can you agree that Zero has his own fanbase, but then say that this match doesn't mean anything in terms of Mega Man fighting Snake or Link?

I don't believe it says a thing when it concerns SFF. It's like basing Link's future results on his match against Ganondorf and Yoshi. He totally killed them with SFF so should we believe, if he faced Cloud, that he would totally dominate?

I don't believe this says anything concrete about Mega Man's chances against Link for the good or for the worse. It would make much more sense to wait until his match against Snake. We can gather much more information based on that one as opposed to this one.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

That'd be two badass set of pictures there.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

If at all, and him getting reverse SFF wouldn't be surprising in the least considering his resume within the series.

Reverse SFF theory has been MAGUS'ED
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

Reverse SFF theory has been MAGUS'ED

So because Magus doesn't get it, it should be labeled impossible right? Zero has been far more prominent within his respective series than Magus has and has even had not one but three starring roles.

Then again, I'm not saying this is a case of reverse SFF; in fact, I'm not saying much of anything on this match.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

If snake does worse against megaman than zero did then what would happen to the noble nine theory? Would the whole theory fall apart altogether, or would zero replace snake on the list, or would they turn into the <insert catchy phrase here> eight?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

It's hard to imagine Zero actually BENEFITING from "reverse SFF". And if the pic really mattered...

Then Link should've beaten Cloud last year with an OoT pic.
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

... that'd mean Megaman would be able to hang with the likes of Link and Sephiroth instead of being stuck in Mario/Crono kingdom. That's all.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

If Link dominates Crono and Samus and Mega challenge Clinkeroth, I'm all for splitting them down to 5. I don't know how many people will agree with me on that, though.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

I think this is different then magus vs. crono, because magus doesn't have his own series like zero does, which gives zero a bit of his own fanbase to combat Sff possibly in it's entirety (judging by todays results).
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

And if Mega Man and Zero indeed have separate fanbases, then there should be little to NO SFF in this match. Certainly not the 5% that Mega Man needs to have suffered to be on par with Link.
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

It's hard to imagine Zero actually BENEFITING from "reverse SFF".

Why not? This is a Capcom vs Capcom match. Not Nintendo vs Nintendo or Square vs Square. It's a very rare instance where we actually see other companies having SFF aside from those two. Heck, this even goes a step further and goes to being within a series as opposed to just company. When you look at Zero from what he's done within his own series and then the X series it's not hard to imagine him doing so.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

I can't help but think that Mega Man would be doing even better with an X sprite.

Zero isn't weak at all; I think Mega Man's doing very well considering his opponent.

-Dabu

Think fast. Click faster.

Yeah, to me, this match indicates that Megaman doesn't benefit as much from the X fanbase...

Which is why I'd prefer an X pic here.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Zero beat Protoman into the ground. Shouldn't Mega Man have the upper hand or at least even ground here within the Mega Man fanbase?

Again, if X-series mattered, then Link should've beaten Cloud in 2k3 with a better pic.
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

So can you come up with a better explanation assuming that Zero is getting a benefit from SFF?

Since apparently no one likes me theory that there is no SFF.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Zero beat Protoman into the ground. Shouldn't Mega Man have the upper hand or at least even ground here within the Mega Man fanbase?

If anything that would show Zero's fully capable of tearing out SFF into his favor. There's no way I'd buy Protoman genuinely being that weak, but from the looks of it he'll rank higher than we originally gave him credit for. There's no way this match should have ever been thought of to have massive SFF and Zero gaining from it isn't farfetched. All in all though I wouldn't bother arguing over it. It's just more questions that are thrown into the air, when we'll find the answers next round.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Zero beat Protoman into the ground.

All the more reason why the X series could be > classic series

Although I'd say that's irrelevant though considering how prominent Zero is compared to Protoman's bit parts.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Oh and Mega Man X: Command Mission kicks plenty of ass. The story is what you would expect from the X series games (nothing those story craved people would fall in love with, but hey it's good), it's a pretty linear game so far and the battle system is the Cross Order System from Xeno... saga was it?

I'm definitely enjoying the game thus far, and the voice acting is superb.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

I don't think we can reconcile this with Mega/Tidus. The two explanations are Tidus/Shadow dropped majorly, or Zero/Vercetti/Max rose quite a bit. Neither make any sense to me, so I'm not going to worry about it.

Zero had his second game come out. Max had his second game come out. Vercetti's game has likely sold over 1 million copies since the last contest. That's certainly enough for a change, in my eyes.

Since apparently no one likes me theory that there is no SFF.

I do.
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

Someone who should be strong enough to beat Link should NEVER get reverse SFF'd. I don't care if it is Zero. Without SFF, he'd have to be stronger than Mega Man was last year in order for the Blue Bomber to still be on par to beat Link. Oh yeah, and Vercetti would be a near elite, right around where Zero himself was last year.

And yet no one believes that Mega Man overperformed against Tidus even though that seems like a more plausible explanation? Well, except to Heroic Mario anyway. Trying to call reverse SFF seems like a big stretch to me though. Magus couldn't do it; Sephiroth couldn't do it, and he wouldn't have needed much to beat Cloud.

Heroic Mario, you've been saying that you wouldn't have expected a lot of SFF in this match anyway. Yet you're trying to justify Mega Man's underperformance by saying that Zero got 8% of raw reverse SFF? That's quite a bit.

I've been saying is that we cannot assume transivity across the board on every poll. SFF in this match is minimal, if not non-existent. It's more telling of Mega Man's strength than what he did against Tidus.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

And Mega Man's % falls as we speak.
---
Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

"... and the voice acting is superb."

Just out of curiosity, is it dubbed in English voices? I haven't been following the game so I don't know.

-Dabu

Think fast. Click faster.

Someone who should be strong enough to beat Link should NEVER get reverse SFF'd. I don't care if it is Zero.

Yet if he turns around and puts up the 63-65% he would need against Solid Snake next round we'd all be saying different, except for me.

And yet no one believes that Mega Man overperformed against Tidus even though that seems like a more plausible explanation?

You can basically throw anything out there based on this match and call it somewhat plausible. There's no reason to even start discussing that when we will have a definitive answer next round. Welcome to the beauty of matches with characters from the same fanbase.

Well, except to Heroic Mario anyway. Trying to call reverse SFF seems like a big stretch to me though. Magus couldn't do it; Sephiroth couldn't do it, and he wouldn't have needed much to beat Cloud.

I never said this was reverse SFF; I said it was possible. There's a difference between the two. The only thing I've said with certainity is that it'd be completely stupid to say Mega Man has no chance of beating Link based on the performance today. We could talk and throw out ideas all day long on this one match, but we'd have definite answer in just a week.

Heroic Mario, you've been saying that you wouldn't have expected a lot of SFF in this match anyway. Yet you're trying to justify Mega Man's underperformance by saying that Zero got 8% of raw reverse SFF? That's quite a bit.

I never said this match had reverse SFF in it, I simply stated that it is certainly a possibility that not a lot are really thinking about. Just looking at Zero's resume in comparison to other characters and the fact it doesn't concern Nintendo/Square would make me consider such. Never said it was rearing its head in this match.

---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Just out of curiosity, is it dubbed in English voices? I haven't been following the game so I don't know.

Yep. English voices, X doesn't sound girly, and done exceptionally well for a X series title.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Tom Bombadil PWNED my socks off! (Sonic vs Ryu)

Oh yeah, and on top of that...If there's no SFF here, for Mega Man to be on par with Link, Max Payne moves into the top 32 in overall strength.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

If Mega Man has a strong enough fanbase to beat Link, he should not suffer reverse SFF, much less a 8% raw decrease.

Yeah, that is the beauty of dealing with characters from the same fanbase. You can either end up with Link-Ganondorf or, more likely in this case, Sephiroth-Vivi.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Welcome to the beauty of matches with characters from the same fanbase.

Weren't you saying earlier that they had separate fanbase?
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Crono ~ Frog ~ Cloud ~ Sonic
SC2K4: 49/50 Matches

I can still easily see Mega Man contending greatly with Link and winning against him. He'll be putting up the numbers he needs for a victory against Snake next round, of this I'm certain.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Weren't you saying earlier that they had separate fanbase?

I never said these two characters had seperate fanbases. I said that with everyone Zero has it's easy for people who like Mega Man to give their vote to Zero, and there's the wonders of SFF.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Yeah, and Sonic will beat Samus. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. I don't care what the stats say. Terry Bogard would knock Lara Croft and Sam Fisher into next week. He'll get it done.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Yeah, and Sonic will beat Samus. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. I don't care what the stats say. Terry Bogard would knock Lara Croft and Sam Fisher into next week. He'll get it done.

Unlike today's match, Sonic has already proven to be at the exact same level as last year. The stats also don't say anything considering Mega Man/Tidus and then Mega Man/Zero today. So, obviously yours would be far more farfetched than anything I've stated.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Unlike today's match, Sonic has already proven to be at the exact same level as last year.

Unlike today's match? Even though Mega Man is doing pretty much what he was expected to do against Zero?

We don't have any definitive stats on Terry Bogard. For all we know, he's been underestimated all this time, or he's even gone up from 2002. Plus, there's always SFAC to consider with Ryu. It could have given him a big boost, and Sonic met his jump head on and broke even.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Unlike today's match? Even though Mega Man is doing pretty much what he was expected to do against Zero?

I should have said "previous matches" instead of today. Mega Man's whomping 65% against Tidus said wonders while today has shown other things. Obviously the best choice of action would be to wait until Mega Man vs Solid Snake.

Plus, there's always SFAC to consider with Ryu. It could have given him a big boost, and Sonic met his jump head on and broke even.

Then why did Ryu perform the exact same, without SFAC out, against KOS-MOS and then the exact same against Sonic? Seems a little odd that Sonic and Ryu would increase the exact same, even down to less than 0.5%
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"Zero would have won over X, or at least make it closer."

I dunno about Zero winning that match, but he'd get my vote over X when he most certainly didn't get my vote over the Classic Mega Man.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Oh and Mega Man X: Command Mission kicks plenty of ass. The story is what you would expect from the X series games (nothing those story craved people would fall in love with, but hey it's good), it's a pretty linear game so far and the battle system is the Cross Order System from Xeno... saga was it?

I'm definitely enjoying the game thus far, and the voice acting is superb.

Must...trade in...Fable...so many...non-crappy games...
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

well, this came up with some match a time ago, but the point was, we don't have to wait to discuss x characters strength until their next round to really see their strength, becasue that's what the discussions topics are for. Overall, this is not a good showing for Megaman, it just isn't. it may not be bad, but it certainly doesn't help Megaman > Link either. But this match isn't changing my opinion since I never really believed he could beat Link anyway.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

I wouldn't assume that Megaman is out of contention just yet but his chances of upsetting Link is very slim.

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

I can still easily see Mega Man contending greatly with Link and winning against him. He'll be putting up the numbers he needs for a victory against Snake next round, of this I'm certain.

Fine, you're entitled to your dreams.

MM has been in 3 matches now, he only overperformed in his 2nd one, that's 1 out of 3.

Even if you throw out this one, that's only 1 out of 2.
That's still not very convincing.

IMO, any potential upsetters should look like Samus, overperforming on 2 out of 2 matches.

Now Samus has been beating only fodders so far, but her performance left her doubters with very little ground.

Unless she flops against both Sora and Sonic, she's definitely stronger than last year.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Mega Man's whomping 65% against Tidus said wonders while today has shown other things.

It said wonders about how Tidus is able to handle the elite, much like he did against Sonic. I don't think the hedgehog fell as much as we thought. It's possible that Tidus didn't budge last year, evening out the falls of other characters from WDF a little.

Besides, who's to say that KOS-MOS hasn't gone up as well? It's not that hard to believe. Xenosaga has had another year to settle in, and the casual vote isn't as massive as last year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

If Samus is only able to get 65% on Sora then she is a Fluke this year..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Ah, stats. The moment something doesn't line up with our preconcieved worldview, we engineer ludicrous theories like "Reverse SFF" to fit it... and no, HM, this is NOT directed at you. Just about the stats in general.


---
If you add monster truck tires to the Pope-mobile, religion suddenly becomes funny - SSJ3 Popo

If Samus is only able to get 65% on Sora then she is a Fluke this year..

Try 60%. If Sora is right around where we think he is, that's about what Samus would get if she didn't change from last year. 65% would indicate an increase, though not enough to compete with Cloud.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Fine, you're entitled to your dreams.

They aren't "dreams" until proven that Mega Man has no chance against Link.

MM has been in 3 matches now, he only overperformed in his 2nd one, that's 1 out of 3.

I love how you include the first match against Earthworm Jim and call it underperforming. We had absolutely nothing to base EJ off of.

Even if you throw out this one, that's only 1 out of 2.
That's still not very convincing.

How is the first match an underperformance?

IMO, any potential upsetters should look like Samus, overperforming on 2 out of 2 matches.

Samus has had two contestants that aren't from her fanbase and have been present in the contest before. It's much, much easier to judge Samus and her potential to upset than it is Mega Man... at the moment. Mega Man's major test would come from beating Solid Snake by a great margin. He's had one match against an unknown (strength) character, one match against a strong Tidus, and one SFF match against a strong Zero. The only one to base anything off of would be the second one for obvious reasons. Again, it's always best to see at the division finals when we'll see him go up against an elite.

Now Samus has been beating only fodders so far, but her performance left her doubters with very little ground.

There will always be doubters, and many of them. They just don't believe anyone can beat Cloud, Link, or Sephiroth.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Try 60%. If Sora is right around where we think he is, that's about what Samus would get if she didn't change from last year. 65% would indicate an increase, though not enough to compete with Cloud.

I stated 65% for one reason and that is last year's matchup with Cloud vs. Sonic.. Cloud nearly doubled Sonic last year and I am sure we can all agree on that Sonic > Sora ... Now, I am not saying that this isn't an increase for Samus but she is definitely not a contender for the championship if she is only able to grab 65% on Sora..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Samus's increase is pretty much a fact, unless she totally flops against Sora and Sonic.

How big is that increase would be the better question.

Btw, Sora's strength is still undetermined.
So he's NOT a good meter by which to measure Samus.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I think Samus is going to get between 63-70 on Sora. somewhere between there, though even if Samus does "bad", Sora did increase, so we're still not much better off.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

I love how you include the first match against Earthworm Jim and call it underperforming. We had absolutely nothing to base EJ off of.

Heh, when you set your standards to Mega Man getting 85-90%, it feels like an underperformance. The Blue Bomber did right about where I expected him to against Jim though.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Sorry to veer in a totally different direction but I'm curious as to your opinions on this idea.

The Sonic-Mario Supreme Collection. Sega and Nintendo should team up and make a collection which contains all the 2-D Marios and Sonics as well as a shiny new game which features both Sonic and Mario working together to defeat the evil, TEAMED UP forces of Robotnik (not Eggman) and Bowser. Also make some sexy extras like interviews, history of, blah blah. I think that would be awesome...

I made a topic but I think I'll get more feedback here.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Well, that's not as great as having Cloud and Squall in the same game, but I think it'd sell.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

It said wonders about how Tidus is able to handle the elite, much like he did against Sonic.

Blah, blah, blah you and I have been over that. I don't feel the need to discuss how stupid I think that is; even if Mega Man doesn't beat Link I'm not buying that at all.

I don't think the hedgehog fell as much as we thought. It's possible that Tidus didn't budge last year, evening out the falls of other characters from WDF a little.

The hedgehog has already shown to fallen as much as we thought, there's certainly no reason to believe Tidus cannot handle himself against an elite based on those two matches. In one Sonic was actually very strong that year, this year Mega Man looks to have increased greatly. Yet you want to blame it on Tidus collapsing against elites when there's an explanation for him not doing well?

Besides, who's to say that KOS-MOS hasn't gone up as well? It's not that hard to believe. Xenosaga has had another year to settle in, and the casual vote isn't as massive as last year.

Xenosaga needs another 17 months to settle? I thought it did it's job in the first contest, but regardless that would mean Ryu increased prior to SFAC coming out and equally with KOS-MOS. That doesn't make much sense either.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I love how you include the first match against Earthworm Jim and call it underperforming. We had absolutely nothing to base EJ off of.

How is the first match an underperformance?

HM, please do NOT put words in my mouth.

I'm counting MM's "overperforming" round.

His match vs. EJ is "as expected", so I don't count that as an "overperformance".

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

There will always be doubters, and many of them. They just don't believe anyone can beat Cloud, Link, or Sephiroth.

*raises hand*

I just DON't believe it until I have witnessed it! I have said earlier that if somehow Samus is able to pull the upset against Cloud... I vow to never go against early warnings again!!! ...

How big is that increase would be the better question.

Btw, Sora's strength is still undetermined.
So he's NOT a good meter by which to measure Samus.

I agree.. Sora's strength is still a mystery but we can at least determine a little about Samus strength on what she can pull on Sora.. But the biggest question is, what percent can she grab on Sonic...

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Xenosaga needs another 17 months to settle? I thought it did it's job in the first contest, but regardless that would mean Ryu increased prior to SFAC coming out and equally with KOS-MOS. That doesn't make much sense either.

Metroid Prime needed that long, it would seem. KOS-MOS as a cult character having a marked improvement makes more sense than Samus jumping up to the level of elite while having done nothing of note since last year besides Zero Mission.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Heh, when you set your standards to Mega Man getting 85-90%, it feels like an underperformance. The Blue Bomber did right about where I expected him to against Jim though.

Well, there's still no reason to include it into the category of "underperformance" with the fact we hadn't a clue on Jim's strength.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I don't feel the need to discuss how stupid I think that is; even if Mega Man doesn't beat Link I'm not buying that at all.

Even if Mega Man does exactly as he's supposed to against Snake AND Link?

I'm aware that Sonic has fallen quite a bit, but if he overperformed against Tidus in year 1, he was stronger than we thought, meaning he didn't fall from as high of a level as originally believed.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Excuse me, that should say NOT as strong as we thought.

Either way, I still say the possibility is out there. We say it can never happen because we've always been able to "explain" it somehow, or just make up some excuse and be done with it.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I'm counting MM's "overperforming" round.

How do you know it wasn't an overperformance? I can work both ways.

His match vs. EJ is "as expected", so I don't count that as an "overperformance".

Do not spout off information where you clearly have no clue on. There's nothing to say it went "as expected" there's nothing to say it was an "overperformance" there's nothing to say it was an "underperformance". You absolutely give it one of those categories on a character where we have no idea of what his strength would be.

Metroid Prime needed that long,

Who in the world ever said that was the reason that Samus could have possibly increased? That's one of the most unlikely reasons, if you ask me. I'd put more behind the recent Metroid Prime/Metroid Prime 2: Echoes bundle with the GameCube than I would MP settling. It had plenty of time to do that in 2003.

KOS-MOS as a cult character having a marked improvement makes more sense than Samus jumping up to the level of elite while having done nothing of note since last year besides Zero Mission.

There's not really a reason that will really fit there and sound good when you talk about Samus increasing.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Still.. The fact that Megaman did break 65% on a main Final Fantasy character is quite strong... Let's just see how Megaman does against Snake before we pull any other judgements... Megaman is still a contender, but his chances look slim to many from the looks of this match..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

You people are great...

Reverse SFF?
Match Pics? (X fanboys are funny)

I said months ago, long before this contest was even announced, that it was possible that Sonic underperformed against Cloud, or Cloud overperformed. It lines up well that way. Sonic looks better this year and in 2k2 than he did in 2k3, Kne looked better in 2k2. Zero looks better in 2k4. Master Chief looks better. Aeris should have looked better in 2k3, like most everyone else in KH, but she didn't. Sora did so well this year that it looks like his match with Aeris may have been some sort of reverse SFF. The only oddity that doesn't follow those trends out of that entire 8 pack is Scorpion, and he's an oddity anyway. He may not have shown a drop in 2k3 due to his latest game at the time, and no doubt the newness of that game has long since worn off for the undead ninja.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Zero is going up in percentage at a good pace. He might end up with over 43% against Mega Man.

There's not really a definitive reason for Samus's increase, one way or the other.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Who in the world ever said that was the reason that Samus could have possibly increased? That's one of the most unlikely reasons, if you ask me. I'd put more behind the recent Metroid Prime/Metroid Prime 2: Echoes bundle with the GameCube than I would MP settling. It had plenty of time to do that in 2003.

I second'D that

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Even if Mega Man does exactly as he's supposed to against Snake AND Link?

I'd still have a hard time believing he'd collapse against an elite character. The explanations for why he wouldn't are more likely, to me, than the excuse for him. Only if Mega Man put up around 38% against Link would I consider it more.

I'm aware that Sonic has fallen quite a bit, but if he overperformed against Tidus in year 1, he was stronger than we thought, meaning he didn't fall from as high of a level as originally believed.

Yet the X-sts predicted that Sonic vs Ryu match perfectly. It just never sits well when you would have a character increase directly to what the stats have predicted. It seems far more likely that Sonic actually fell to that point after 2002 and since hasn't gone backup.

---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Sonic looks better this year

Sonic doesn't look any better than what the X-sts had him at last year.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Do not spout off information where you clearly have no clue on. There's nothing to say it went "as expected" there's nothing to say it was an "overperformance" there's nothing to say it was an "underperformance". You absolutely give it one of those categories on a character where we have no idea of what his strength would be.

If you say that I can't call that match "as expected".

Then you can NOT say that MM can beat Link even if he get 70% on Snake.

You based your arguments on last year's X-stats, so did I.
If mine's invalid, then so is yours.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Let's just see how Megaman does against Snake before we pull any other judgements...

Exactly! I've been saying that for the past few pages now. Discussing this match in relation to Mega Man's chances against Link just seem asinine.

Megaman is still a contender, but his chances look slim to many from the looks of this match..

His chances were always held in low regard to many.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Yet the X-sts predicted that Sonic vs Ryu match perfectly. It just never sits well when you would have a character increase directly to what the stats have predicted.

That's not what I said. I said that if he overperformed against Tidus in year 1 and HE didn't budge from 2002 to 2003 (as opposed to a slight increase), then Sonic didn't fall as far as we thought. It's all irrelevant anyway.

I'd still have a hard time believing he'd collapse against an elite character. The explanations for why he wouldn't are more likely, to me, than the excuse for him. Only if Mega Man put up around 38% against Link would I consider it more.

What other explanations? That Tidus and Shadow fell in direct proportion to one another? You doubt it for Ryu and KOS-MOS, so there's really no reason to believe it'd happen here either.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

The thing that irks me about the whole Sonic ordeal is that against Terry it would appear that he gained greatly since with the new vote totals, Terry only has reason to increase, yet against Ryu he appears to have stayed the same. Maybe Sonic and Ryu (and subsequently KOS-MOS) gained about equally?
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

If you say that I can't call that match "as expected".

Then you can NOT say that MM can beat Link even if he get 70% on Snake.

You missed the point entirely. What in the world can you base Jim off of? There's no place you can put him in the X-sts since he is brand-new and there's no prior knowledge of just how well/bad/expected Mega Man did to him in round 1. It's best just to ignore that match completely when talking about what Mega Man has done and his chances from here on.

You based your arguments on last year's X-stats, so did I.
If mine's invalid, then so is yours.

How did you base your argument for Jim on the X-sts when he wasn't present last year?
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

What other explanations? That Tidus and Shadow fell in direct proportion to one another?

Mega Man gaining from 2003 to 2004 is one of the reasons I'm against Tidus collapsing. There's reason to believe that increase was majorly accounted to Mega Man as opposed to Tidus, for some strange reason, falling.


I don't believe Tidus or Shadow fell, as they'd have more reason to increase or stay the same.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Today's match speaks as much against Mega Man gaining as his match against Tidus speaks for it.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Zero is whittling MM down to the 57% mark. Ouch.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

"Unlike today's match, Sonic has already proven to be at the exact same level as last year."

No he hasn't. There was a great deal of uncertianty in that fourpack and we won't really know if he held the same strength until the final match is over.

"Then why did Ryu perform the exact same, without SFAC out, against KOS-MOS and then the exact same against Sonic?"

SFAC came out after his match with KOS. If it came out before it, for all we know Ryu may have beaten he much worse.

"Must...trade in...Fable...so many...non-crappy games..."

After all the arguing we did with Fable being one of the most prominent issues I must say I'm glad I was right. My condolences, however, on your lost money.

"I wouldn't assume that Megaman is out of contention just yet but his chances of upsetting Link is very slim."

That's the only logical stance anyone could ever have taken onthe subject, be it the massacre agaisnt Tidus or this showing against Zero.

"he only overperformed in his 2nd one"

The first match is unjudgeable, the third match is iffy, and his next match is against an uncertain opponent who could be doing worse, the same as, or perhaps even slightly better than last year. We really can't say for certain that Knux wasn't able to improve greatly with SH. Like I said weeks ago, to know anything for a certainty we simply have to wait 'til he faces Link.

"Cloud nearly doubled Sonic last year"

And Sonic has had a new game since. I'd crap my pants if Samus doubled up on Sonic and I'd be a bit shocked if Cloud was able to do it again.


---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

How did you base your argument for Jim on the X-sts when he wasn't present last year?

I'll concede this point, I could've sworn he's there in 2003.
I guess I must've mistook him for someone else...

Ok then, it's 1 out of 1.
Much better, but I'd lean on Tidus dropping than MM increasing based on today's match.

Assuming there's no such thing as SFF, MM should've broken 65% easily if he's on Link's level, yet he struggled to even break 60%.

Unless there's massive reverse SFF, this match pushed me to lean on Tidus dropping.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"Even if Mega Man does exactly as he's supposed to against Snake AND Link?"

Doing exactly as suspected against Snake will mean nothing until MM faces whomever he faces in the final four...

Go Crono! :)
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

After all the arguing we did with Fable being one of the most prominent issues I must say I'm glad I was right. My condolences, however, on your lost money.

Hmm? You weren't right just because Fable was a crappy game. Fable wasn't part of the issue, it was just a little dot on the games list. Now it's not there anymore, as far as I'm concerned, but the argument that the Xbox is improving and trying to bring in a new market to its console is still valid.

Besides, I always said Jade Empire would be better and got laughed at and told how awesome Fable was going to be. If anything, I feel like I won the debate with those morons who thought Fable was going to be the be all and end all of gaming as we know it. I was never that enamoured.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

"Sonic doesn't look any better than what the X-sts had him at last year."

Sure, and neither does Ryu, yet you yourself were so adamant about SFAC giving Ryu a boost that you thought h may even pass up his expected 45% on Sonic. You only disagree with me because you dislike Sonic characters. It really looks bad when you disagree with someone who is using the same logical evidence you recently used.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Unless there's massive reverse SFF, this match pushed me to lean on Tidus dropping.

Or maybe Mega Man overperformed? For some reason, people decided that Sephiroth overperforming against Link in 2002 was the only explanation for the WDF. I don't see any reason to believe in transitivity across the board when we've seen instances where it doesn't add up.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Oh, and I might add that I didn't waste my money, because I paid a mere $60 CDN for the Jade Empire trailer in the Extras section of Fable.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

Or maybe Mega Man overperformed? For some reason, people decided that Sephiroth overperforming against Link in 2002 was the only explanation for the WDF. I don't see any reason to believe in transitivity across the board when we've seen instances where it doesn't add up.

You mean underperformed?

Sephy was way better in 2003 than he was in 2002.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

" Fable wasn't part of the issue, it was just a little dot on the games list."

You're rigth on one part, it was just a little dot... however it was the biggest dot outside of the obvious Halo 2 in terms of the Xbox's "hopeful" outlook.

"I feel like I won the debate with those morons who thought Fable was going to be the be all and end all of gaming as we know it."

Of which I wasn't one. I thought Fable had a lot more hype going for it, and for that it'd be bigger, but all things considered even I am interested in Jade Empire... I just didn't want to say as much becuase I didn't want any Xbox fans to think they were in some way winning.

Overall, however, the fact of the matter is that if Fable is one of the Xbox's attempts at improvement I'll stick to my PS2 and GC until I can get a used one for $50.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

My last post was in relation to Sephy btw.

Yes, MM could've increased and hence overperformed.

But as I said before, this match pushes me to lean on Tidus dropping instead.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"Oh, and I might add that I didn't waste my money, because I paid a mere $60 CDN for the Jade Empire trailer in the Extras section of Fable."

Let us hope that JE isn't the disapointment that Fable is.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Honest question to X-Box owners:

Does the X-Box have any good RPGs?

Note that my reflexes are a bit slow to excel at FPSs or other quick reaction games.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Oh, and I really think that HM should just face the facts:

Mega Man. Will. Not. Beat. Link.

Championship contenders are NOT supposed to be reverse SFF'ed; in fact, championship contenders aren't supposed to show any weaknesses. Period.

The situation worsens considerably when you take into account that MM is on track to finish a fair bit below what the 2003 stats would project him to.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Well, one of the reasons for the WDF is that Sephiroth supposedly overperformed against Link in 2002, causing most of the characters who were in the West Division to have inexplicable drops in 2003. Sephiroth managed to avoid a drop himself due to Kingdom Hearts.

However, if Sephiroth overperformed like that, shouldn't everyone in Link's division have had a similar increase last year?

Mega Man 57% 34887
Zero 43% 26316
TOTAL VOTES 61203

Zero is gaining percentage like crazy, and it's not even the night vote yet.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Considering biowares track record, I doubt that Jade empire is going to be a let down.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Championship contenders are NOT supposed to be reverse SFF'ed; in fact, championship contenders aren't supposed to show any weaknesses. Period.

I agree. If you're supposed to be the strongest character in this contest, no one else should be able to gain an advantage over you, regardless of who it is.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I'm tellin' ya guys, your expectations of Zero were just too low. There isn't reverse SFF, Mega Man isn't underperforming his 2k3 number. I've said some crazy **** in this topic before, but you people are making me look down right sane.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Does the X-Box have any good RPGs?

Note that my reflexes are a bit slow to excel at FPSs or other quick reaction games.

XBox exclusives? Not that I know of. But KOTOR is simply amazing, as will be KOTOR 2. And I think JE is an RPG.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

This isn't reverse SFF. Mega Man and Zero are two different characters from two entirely different series.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

If there really isn't any SFF in this match, then MM would have to be getting 68% or more before I'd consider him a threat to Link.

It seems that Samus is our only hope for salvation now.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

This isn't reverse SFF. Mega Man and Zero are two different characters from two entirely different series.

Well, if your statement holds, then MM has NO chance in hell of beating Link.

And I sincerely hope you're right, since a Link vs. Cloud final is what I'm rooting for.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"Mega Man and Zero are two different characters from two entirely different series."

In many ways that is true... in many ways that is also false. I think out of all the characters that have appeared in some fashion together in a game these two would be the least likely to leech off of one another. Mega Man had a lot of time on his own before there was a Zero to speak of, Zero has had his own solo games, and in the games where they crossover the Mega Man in question is often considered a sepperate character.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

"If there really isn't any SFF in this match, then MM would have to be getting 68% or more before I'd consider him a threat to Link."

Yeah, and I'm still telling you that you're underestimating Zero.

"Well, if your statement holds, then MM has NO chance in hell of beating Link."

Man, you're backasswards, I swear. It is simply because of that fact that the performance today doesn't show any sort of reverse SFF nonsense, and that most people just haven't been giving Zero the credit he deserves.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I'm with ya ChichiriMuyo. Zero's a damn beast. And he's been around nearly as long as Sonic, so when he pulled that 47% on Sonic, I took that as a tribute to Zeros's STRENGTH, not Sonic's weakness. Zero and Sonic might share somewhat of a fanbase as well. They came out within the same era. I like both of them, so I know it's possible.

I also think that Cloud overperformed against Sonic... It seems a lot of people on this board in general like to kick characters when they're down and praise them when they are doing well. Nobody is giving Zero his due in this match. SFF regardless, he's still DOING it. And he's still creeping on Mega Man.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

If Sonic is near his 2k2 strength then Zero may actually be underperforming right now, btw... So if Cloud did overperform agianst Sonic last year then this match isn't showing an irregular result at all.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Please tell me if I have this right:

Zero had about 47.66% on Sonic in 2003. Sonic had around 33.79% on Cloud in 2003. So Zero would get 32.21% on Cloud, at least according to the X-Sts.

So. Shouldn't Mega Man at least come within 1 - 3% of Cloud's expected percentage on Zero to look good in this match?
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Unfortunately for MM, just being at his 2003 level won't help him. This match needs to show an "irregular" result very heavily in his favor if he wants to stand a chance against Link.

And he hasn't done that. GG, MM.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

"Shouldn't Mega Man at least come within 1 - 3% of Cloud's expected percentage on Zero to look good in this match?"

Not if Cloud's performance was irregular for that match.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Not if Cloud's performance was irregular for that match.

You mean he overperformed in all his matches up until his match against Link?
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Shouldn't Megaman come at least TEN points within CLoud's expected percentage against Zero? Because, you know... he's NOT.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

And Sonic has had a new game since. I'd crap my pants if Samus doubled up on Sonic and I'd be a bit shocked if Cloud was able to do it again.

I don't think Samus can do it.. I'll crap my pants also if that happens.. But I still think Cloud has a chance of repeating that if they were to face this year...

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Not if Cloud's performance was irregular for that match.

His performance wasn't irregular... He basically owned everyone hard except for Link and Sephiroth... I wouldn't call that "irregular", i.e. Fluke

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Wow, I just got home now and voted and saw the results for Mega Man/Zero. Zero getting 43%+? Ouch.

Not good for MM here.

I don't know how we've underestimated Zero so far. For the only two matches he's been involved in that we can accurately gauge, he's performed as expected.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"You mean he overperformed in all his matches up until his match against Link?"

It's possible. If it happened then Zero should get 45% against MM assuming no SFF if Sonic's drop was all Cloud overperformance.

"I wouldn't call that "irregular","

Excpet that everything other than Scorpion point to something unusual happening between Sonic and Cloud. And by everything other than Scorpion, I mean everything other than Scorpion. Every character in Sonic's 2k3 8 pack that has returned or had been in 2k2 looks their worst in 2k3, other than Scorpion.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I'm waiting (yes, waiting, novel concept, and one I'm usually against) until Mega/Snake to make another conclusion about Mega Man. This match does not jive with Mega/Tidus in the least, and I'm much more willing to use the results of Mega/Tidus instead of this one.

Oh, and since when do you need to show absolute strength to be a championship contender? Look at Mario in 2k2...the only time he dominated was against Donkey Kong, yet he made it to the finals past Crono and Cloud.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Oh, and since when do you need to show absolute strength to be a championship contender? Look at Mario in 2k2...the only time he dominated was against Donkey Kong, yet he made it to the finals past Crono and Cloud.

I am not too sure about that.. 2K4 and on are going to be different.. You have to show your true strength from the beginning and not letting go unless you face a "true" contender...

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Megaman dipped under the 56.86% projection. Wow. O_O

If somehow that increase Megaman hinted at against Tidus is genuine, we may see Zero not only in the top 10, but in the top 5. O_O
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Look at Mario in 2k2...the only time he dominated was against Donkey Kong, yet he made it to the finals past Crono and Cloud.

Yeah, and he got thoroughly whipped by Link, a character who was legitimately stronger than he was. Mario wouldn't give up any reverse SFF.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"2K4 and on are going to be different.."

Maybe. maybe not. There's no way to tell until the end of the contest if today's match was a foreshadowing of something good or bad.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

If somehow that increase Megaman hinted at against Tidus is genuine, we may see Zero not only in the top 10, but in the top 5. O_O

Yeah, and Vercetti is slightly below where we thought Zero was, meaning that Max Payne is a top 32 character in strength, Donkey Kong is Sweet Sixteen material, Vivi is an elite, and Sephiroth got lots of SFF.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"If somehow that increase Megaman hinted at against Tidus is genuine, we may see Zero not only in the top 10, but in the top 5."

Top 10, sure, but top 5? If MM's performance against Tidus was "acurate" then MM still loses to Link by a small margin leaving him in 4th place, there's still a great deal of contention for that 5th place spot. Crono and Samus could still get it easily, in fact, should Crono have more surprises to throw out or Samus continues to keep tearing things to bits like she has.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

That's assuming there's a mega ****load of reverse SFF going on, too. Don't go on a mathematic rampage just yet.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

Wow, Mega Man has only gained 100 votes in his overall margin in the last hour. Great performance by Zero.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"Yeah, and Vercetti is slightly below where we thought Zero was, meaning that Max Payne is a top 32 character in strength, Donkey Kong is Sweet Sixteen material, Vivi is an elite, and Sephiroth got lots of SFF."

Sounds alright to me.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Oops, I wasn't thinking about Megaman himself. Make that 6th.

But if the real Megaman was the one who faced Tidus, I doubt Crono could get ahead of Zero. Unless he gets his hands on a copy of Alucard's plan.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

That would be assuming that Mega Man is where he showed to be against Tidus and is getting no SFF against Zero.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"Unless he gets his hands on a copy of Alucard's plan."

Maybe it is Alucard's plan. Throw the match to Ganon, let the pig and the dino suffer terrible SFF making people think Link is uber powerful then watch Crono *****slap him. If I were Alucard that'd be my plan.

"That would be assuming that Mega Man is where he showed to be against Tidus and is getting no SFF against Zero."

Assuming 2k2 MM and 2k2 Sonic, MM is ahead of his projected % right now.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Seems fine until we realize where we have to adjust everyone else to make it work.

However, it would make Vyse a top 32 character, which is fine by me, but that makes Cloud pretty much unstoppable.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Maybe it is Alucard's plan. Throw the match to Ganon, let the pig and the dino suffer terrible SFF making people think Link is uber powerful then watch Crono *****slap him. If I were Alucard that'd be my plan.

Wait, Crono beating Link? I think he looks a lot better, but beating Link? O.o

---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Zero is a strong contender but I thought for sure Megaman will get SFF to boost his percentage but instead his percentage is dropping!?!...

Lets not say anything just yet... Wait until Megaman vs. Solid Snake but then again.. Even if Megaman gets somewhat a higher percentage than what we would predict, there will still be people stating that Solid Snake's popularity has decreased so Megaman's overperformance means nothing and Link will still own Megaman..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Snake is, at worst, 32.71% on Link.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Yeah, let's just keep putting this off. It's not like the point of this thread is to discuss statistics.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Megaman went up by only 24 votes this last update.

It would be sad if Zero won one when Mario was only able to snag three out of 96 yesterday.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

How does that relate to Vyse at all? Frankly, I doubt there was SFF in Seph/Vivi. DK was behind MM in 2k3, and a sudden rise between 2k3 and 2k4 from MM doesn't do anything to boost DK at
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

"I think he looks a lot better, but beating Link?"

I know he'll do better, I'm hoping he'll win.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I know he'll do better, I'm hoping he'll win.

Speaking of that, did you catch hellfire104's comment yesterday regarding Crono vs. Link? XD
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

How does that relate to Vyse at all? Frankly, I doubt there was SFF in Seph/Vivi. DK was behind MM in 2k3, and a sudden rise between 2k3 and 2k4 from MM doesn't do anything to boost DK at

Just the food chain...Mega Man's strength against Tidus being legit and Zero not getting any SFF here brings Vercetti and Max Payne way up, which then brings Donkey Kong and Vyse (and Laharl, which would make Ulti happy) along for the ride. That would mean Cloud overperformed as opposed to doing exactly as expected like Zero did against Vercetti and as he's doing today.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Possibly under 56% before it is over? Just... yikes. And given that I do not believe reverse SFF to exist... thanks for coming Mega Man, enjoy another Final Four, and don't let the door hit ya on the way out Link *****slaps you like the ho you are. Can I get an amen.

And how the heck do you go this far predicting matches, and yet have Sonic winning the whole thing? Just astounding. Much like Disgaea. It just keeps getting funnier. My roommate thinks I am insane because I am non-stop laughing at the TV. Only knock I see so far: hella difficult to level up characters not named Laharl, AND there is just way too much going on for me to follow. Item worlds, weapon classes, job classes, mana AND actual storyline? <head explodes>
---
Anxiously awaiting... LINK vs. crono
GameFAQs Claim to Fame: 9 hours of Superman 64... and counting...

Possibly under 56% before it is over? Just... yikes. And given that I do not believe reverse SFF to exist... thanks for coming Mega Man, enjoy another Final Four, and don't let the door hit ya on the way out Link *****slaps you like the ho you are. Can I get an amen.

Eh.. I wish it would be the opposite... I rather see Megaman *****slap Link instead... So no Amen for you..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Jeez.. Zero's closed the gap bigtime today.. at one point MM was approaching 60%. This is incredible.

Zero's not gonna win, but.. if he has a real good game coming out that he himself stars in.. he can be really powerful in the coming years.
---
SC2K4 Prediction: Cloud over Crono
SC2K5 Prediction: Crush from WWF Wrestlefest(Arcade) over Raine Sage!

MM needed atleast 60% on SNAKE to beat Link, and now this.


Put a fork in MM, he is done.
---
SC2K4 Score: 70/72(Yoshi) Next Tough Pick: Sephiroth over Cloud
FF7>>>>me.

Man, you're backasswards, I swear. It is simply because of that fact that the performance today doesn't show any sort of reverse SFF nonsense, and that most people just haven't been giving Zero the credit he deserves.

In what way haven't we been giving Zero his proper credit?

Zero has performed AS EXPECTED for 2 out of 3 rounds so far, ignoring his match vs. Protoman (he's new).
That gives me a very strong reason to believe that he hasn't changed much from last year.

That means MM hasn't increased by much either, since he performed as expected against Zero.

Please stop pulling stuff out of thin air.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I don't see why Tidus and Shadow both taking a huge drop is preferable to saying something weird is going on in an SFF match.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

"Speaking of that, did you catch hellfire104's comment yesterday regarding Crono vs. Link?"

Nope, I was gone almost all day yesterday and didn't have it in my to read everything to catch up in the other topic. I figured it'd mostly be about how badly Crono was beating Mario anyway, and how anti-climactic the match would be.

"Vercetti and Max Payne way up, which then..."

Stop rigth there. Who says that Vercetti and Max weren't capable of large boosts between this years contest and last years? In fact, Max' position last year is supsicious, and he's had a lot of ground to gian with his new game. Yes, not enough to make him really powerful, but I could imagine its enough for a potential (and I do mean potential, because we have a lot of contest left to see) top 32 position. GTA double pack hit the Xbox after SC2k3, and with that being an awesome deal for Xbox owners I could easily see some ground gained there.

Really, the factors are too fickle right now for you to assume that it works out like that. You can specualtate all you want, but there are so many factors nulling your argument that there is no guarentee on this match at all.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I just noticed that Zero is doing better against Mega Man than Sephiroth did against Link in 2002:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1001

O_o
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Well, the odds of Zero being underestimated to the point of Vercetti's boost still yielding the expected results are slim.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Speaking of that, did you catch hellfire104's comment yesterday regarding Crono vs. Link?

Oh you'll like this. If anything, it'll give you a laugh. =P

"Also for link vs crono. I dont think you are giving crono enough credit. link hasn't been that successful in these contests. This is a squaresoft favored website, and I think Crono has a pretty good chance against Link."

Wow. O.o

---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

"Put a fork in MM, he is done."

Hardly.

"In what way haven't we been giving Zero his proper credit?"

Because there's no reverse SFF? Because this is what he'd be expected to do on 2k2 MM (which was statistically stronger than 2k3 MM by a large margin) without SFF if Cloud simply overperformed on Sonic last year?

"Please stop pulling stuff out of thin air."

LOL, I'm not the one who called Reverse SFF.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Well, if your statement holds, then MM has NO chance in hell of beating Link.

He never had a chance to begin with.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

I don't see why Tidus and Shadow both taking a huge drop is preferable to saying something weird is going on in an SFF match.

See, if you consider this as an SFF match, then it's bad for MM since he's actually on the receiving end of it.

If you don't consider this an SFF match, it shows that MM's performance against Tidus is but a fluke.

Either way, MM doesn't show any upset potential against Link.

Anyway, I'll rest my case, I'll let Snake deliver the truth.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Ah, Link not successful. Funny indeed. Of course he's rigth on one part, many people aren't giving Crono proper respect. I'd laugh my ass off if he managed to get 47%, let alone winning, simply because so many people think he won't even break 40%. In fact, scratch that, if he breaks 40.01% I'm gloating for a full day in every post I make over every person who thought he wouldn't do it.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Ah, Link not successful. Funny indeed. Of course he's rigth on one part, many people aren't giving Crono proper respect. I'd laugh my ass off if he managed to get 47%, let alone winning, simply because so many people think he won't even break 40%. In fact, scratch that, if he breaks 40.01% I'm gloating for a full day in every post I make over every person who thought he wouldn't do it.

Which is why I'm covering my ass by guessing for 38 to 42%. >_>
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

It's not really necessary to throw out the idea that Cloud overperformed against Sonic when 2003 Mega Man is doing pretty much as expected on 2003 Zero.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I second Mumei.

Even there, assuming Mario didn't change, Crono is expected to break 40% by a slim margin.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 064/072 - Matches: 46/50 - Rank: 00833/33221 - Today: Megaman - Tomorrow: Snake

"Either way, MM doesn't show any upset potential against Link."

That's about the most poorly formed analysis I've seen in my life, and I've seen what Smurf writes.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I'm expecting 43% out of Crono, but we'll see.

Anyway, chances are this match means next to nothing. All of the factors that could have helped Mega in that last year would have helped Zero as well, except MMAC, and to that Zero answers with his own solo adventure. Both could have increased.

I find it more likely than Tidus dropping in a very substantial manner like that without any reason at all. In fact, if that was all a Tidus drop that would mean that Auron would beat Tidus, and not only would he beat him he'd do it by a sizable margin.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

That's about the most poorly formed analysis I've seen in my life, and I've seen what Smurf writes.

Enlighten me then, arrogant one.

What makes you think that Max, Vercetti, MM and Zero gained proportionally?

Vercetti performed as expected against Max, and Zero performed as expected against Vercetti.
And now MM performed as expected against Zero.

Are you saying all 4 chars gained proportionally to make the X-stats look legit while it's not?

Whoever Smurf is, I bet you're not any better than him.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Vercetti performed as expected against Max,

Actually, Max overperformed, but that's a story for another time.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

two thoughts.

1: why couldn't this have happened to magus...?

2: no matter what "factor" is behind these results...proto man definitely deserves another shot at this thing.
---
redline15: blasting off at the speed of light

"What makes you think that Max, Vercetti, MM and Zero gained proportionally?"

This is why I get to be arrogant, because I realized before finishing your post that Max didn't increase proportionally. Do recall, we assumed Tommy had dropped because Max Payne did much better than expected against him. I could get off easy here, and say "statement invalidated" just for that slip up but instead I'll repeat myself...

All of those characters have had something to change their popularity in the last year. Oh, and in case you can't figure it out on your own, Zero still has shown himself to be performing as expected quite yet plus he may still drop of some. WHen the match ends then, and only then, can we tell how close he came to his expected margin.

"Whoever Smurf is, I bet you're not any better than him."

I'm sure most people would agree that I'm not a better person, which is fair enough, but they would also know that despite my crazy ramblings I at least base my legitimate claims in the realm known as reality.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

And by legitimate claim I mean anything that isn't blatantly unprovable. An example of such is my statement that Cloud may have simply overperformed agiasnt Sonic. I say stuff like that for the heck of it and don't always believe it 100% myself. However, if it is the case, then we have an explanation for why Zero performed as expected and why MM is significantly stronger than projected.

(That last part was more for Leonhart than anyone else, since he asked why I brought up 2k2 when the match also falls into 2k3 expectations)
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

1: why couldn't this have happened to magus...?

A) Because the game that Magus is in that Crono isn't never made it to the US.
B) Because Crono is the face of Chrono Trigger.
C) For some inexplicable reason (I suggest elves) Crono's appearance in CC might have actually helped him.
D) Because the average voter is a moron.

2: no matter what "factor" is behind these results...proto man definitely deserves another shot at this thing.

Not if it's at the expense of Dr. Wily.
---
Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon God: Zenithian heroine Sofia faces off against God Emperor Fou-Lu at www.rpgdl.com.

Wait.. magus had a solo game in Japan? Proof!
---
HaRRicH said Lara would get doubled by Samus, but I fought the truth.
Samus - 82.39, Lara - 17.61

"2: no matter what "factor" is behind these results...proto man definitely deserves another shot at this thing.

Not if it's at the expense of Dr. Wily."

I don't even care for the X series all that much and I think Sigma may have a better fighting chance than Wily... of course, I would vote Wily over Sigma, I just don't think the masses would.

Besides, if anybody deserves a second chance for recieving a screw job it's Raiden. Again, I'm not even a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games but I do think Raiden was screwed more than anyone else in contest history.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

All of those characters have had something to change their popularity in the last year. Oh, and in case you can't figure it out on your own, Zero still has shown himself to be performing as expected quite yet plus he may still drop of some. WHen the match ends then, and only then, can we tell how close he came to his expected margin.

Zero's been performing as expected all day long and you're still on denial...

Fine, I was off with Max, but the rest holds.
I find it highly unlikely for MM to have increased to Link's level, and yet still the same strength relative to Zero.

Any increase on 2 different chars can't be soo proportional that it looks like none of them has changed.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I can't believe there are people honestly just throwing Mega Man's chances right out the door based on a match like this. Honestly, it's like people suddenly forget that he destroyed Tidus with Link like numbers.


If anything these said people should just wait until Mega Man/Snake until they actually form an opinion on his chances, because they are so inconsistent that they can't watch one match and keep a steady opinion.

RPGuy and ExquisiteSamuari are probably the best examples of someone who is more or less ignoring this match and waiting until something more solid like Snake in less than a week instead of throwing out asinine questions/claims.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Besides, if anybody deserves a second chance for recieving a screw job it's Raiden. Again, I'm not even a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games but I do think Raiden was screwed more than anyone else in contest history.

Its a tossup between Knuckles and Raiden there.

I find it highly unlikely for MM to have increased to Link's level, and yet still the same strength relative to Zero.

So you'd rather accept Tidus/Shadow falling to Yoshi's level without any explanation?
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Honestly, it's like people suddenly forget that he destroyed Tidus with Link like numbers.

Well, when you suddenly perform worse than you would have been expected to in 2003, that tends to happen.

Zero is pushing for 44%. He's still gaining percentage like crazy.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

No he hasn't. There was a great deal of uncertianty in that fourpack and we won't really know if he held the same strength until the final match is over.

The only thing that looked different about Sonic was his percentage against an estimated Terry Bogard. When you look at 2003 Sonic to a lesser adjusted Terry you would get roughly the same results. Considering he performed identically to what the X-sts had Sonic/Ryu at I don't know why he would go up.

SFAC came out after his match with KOS. If it came out before it, for all we know Ryu may have beaten he much worse.

I was a big supporter of SFAC doing something, but after witnessing Sonic/Ryu I have to question its relevance in the overall scheme of things. Sure, it's still possible for it to have affected something but Sonic being stronger as well? Does it not seem odd that they would each be strong enough to have an exact outcome as the extrapolated standings predicted?


Sure, and neither does Ryu, yet you yourself were so adamant about SFAC giving Ryu a boost that you thought h may even pass up his expected 45% on Sonic.

Yes, I was a very big supporter of SFAC doing something but at the same time after that match I didn't give much more thought to it. The reason being that the match went exactly like it was expected too. There wasn't any oddity throughout that match.

You only disagree with me because you dislike Sonic characters. It really looks bad when you disagree with someone who is using the same logical evidence you recently used.

Why would I be against Sonic increasing? It would help Ryu, and later on Dante, rise up in the standings as well. I'm not anti-Sonic and then just neutral on the other characters. I like Ryu and Dante.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Well, when you suddenly perform worse than you would have been expected to in 2003, that tends to happen.

That's because people are in a word, stupid. They see one thing that obviously isn't concrete stats and they go nuts. In a match where things obviously aren't "right" in the sense that we have two characters from the same fanbase. Some just refuse to acknowledge that things may not be exactly as they look in this match, but rather it's Mega Man standing no chance.

Then again, these are the same people who thought he'd do lesser against Tidus; these same people will also change their opinion once he faces Snake.

Zero is pushing for 44%. He's still gaining percentage like crazy.

Great for Zero. I love Mega Man to death, but Zero is also in my top 10 favorite characters so I can't help but like this. Reason being? It says nothing about Mega Man's chances at beating Link. At the very least people could wait until something more solid, like next round.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I can't believe there are people honestly just throwing Mega Man's chances right out the door based on a match like this.

Mega Man never had a chance in my book. His job was to beat all his opponents up to Link, and bow out gracefully then.

When I think of Mega Man, "Winner" does not come to mind. Final Four sounds more like it...
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

Or maybe Mega Man overperformed? For some reason, people decided that Sephiroth overperforming against Link in 2002 was the only explanation for the WDF.

It was also a very, very stupid reason. You see, your excuse that Tidus collapses against elite's is in the same logic as Sephiroth overperforming against Link. Both of them sound totally stupid. (no offense to you, your in no way stupid)
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Then please explain how Zero goes from 48% on the weakest link in the Noble Nine to being able to beat anyone not named Megamus Clinkeroth. I refuse to believe that Zero is getting nearly 10% of raw reverse SFF on Mega Man, especially when this lines up with 2003.

I have my reasons for doubting Mega Man. Whether you accept them or not has nothing to do with it. You'll stand by your stuff, and I'll stand by mine.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

But as I said before, this match pushes me to lean on Tidus dropping instead.

So you believe both Tidus and Shadow fell like rocks instead of Mega Man increasing? There is absolutely no reason for either of those two characters to drop. On the other hand, I've given plenty of reason for Mega Man's increase; but this is Tidus dropping?
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Tidus AND Shadow drop to YOSHI levels if Mega Man didn't increase.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

"Zero's been performing as expected all day long and you're still on denial...

"Zero still has shown himself to be performing as expected"

Yeah, I'm in denial. I mean, hell, I said he's performing as expected, but I'm denying that fact. Okay, sure, whatever. The sentance wasn't th best I've written, but it still clearly says that he is performing as expected.

And you were WAY off on Max.

"Any increase on 2 different chars can't be soo proportional that it looks like none of them has changed."

Funny, tell that to Shadow, who may have significantly decresed almost exactly proportional to another character in the last year, should MM's performance against Tidus not be a fluke while leaving him at the same level as last year projects.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I can't believe there are people honestly just throwing Mega Man's chances right out the door based on a match like this. Honestly, it's like people suddenly forget that he destroyed Tidus with Link like numbers.

As I said before, 1 match said nothing, 2 and I'll consider him having a legit chance.

RPGuy and ExquisiteSamuari are probably the best examples of someone who is more or less ignoring this match and waiting until something more solid like Snake in less than a week instead of throwing out asinine questions/claims.

This match is controversial for sure, but why should it be COMPLETELY ignored?
Zero and MM's fanbases should be unique enough to make any SFF negligible, if there's even any.

Sorry HM, but I've never considered MM a thread to Link.
His match against Tidus doesn't convince me, and this match convinced me the other way around.

MM (and therefore Zero), could've easily increased.
But most likely not enough to be considered a thread to Link.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

This isn't reverse SFF. Mega Man and Zero are two different characters from two entirely different series.

Ulti, don't act that stupid. This is a match that completely caters to the Mega Man fanbase. I don't care if they are two different series, if you think they don't share the same fans your crazy.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

To an extent they ARE different fanbases. Zero is the "new-school" fanbase while Mega Man is the "old-school" fanbase.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Tidus AND Shadow drop to YOSHI levels if Mega Man didn't increase.

The way I see it, neither has to increase or decrease.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"Its a tossup between Knuckles and Raiden there."

At least we get a fair idea of Knux's strength each year, we haven't got one damn clue about Raiden's though.

"So you'd rather accept Tidus/Shadow falling to Yoshi's level without any explanation?"

Obviously, because two characters would more likely fall proportionately than two characters gaining proportionately, using the "logic" someone just tried to shove down my throat. I mean, hell, one of them essentially starred in a new game (Shadow is only second to Sonic in terms of storyline importance now) and the other one's name was mentioned constantly in another new game. Both of those games also sold fairly well, mind you. But yes, obviously they dropped proportionately over the last year despite everything workign against them dropping even though it's impossible for two characters to increase proportionately.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Dear Lord, the stats are going to be so screwed up this year...
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

Oh, and I really think that HM should just face the facts:

By all means, present me these facts that I'm just not facing. I have yet to see one thing in this topic that is clearly factual and makes Mega Man's chances drop like a rock--without some oddity to go along with it, of course.

Mega Man. Will. Not. Beat. Link.

Really? I'm inclined to believe the opposite and with good reason.

Championship contenders are NOT supposed to be reverse SFF'ed; in fact, championship contenders aren't supposed to show any weaknesses. Period.

Mario made it to the finals by beating Cloud and Crono. Up until that point he hadn't shown one sign of domination, minus the SFF on Donkey Kong. You have to concentrate on one thing at a time, and if he beats Link--his main goal--then he certainly has a great shot at taking the finals. His finals is basically the final four, because if he wins I don't think he'd lose to whoever is in the finals.

If there really isn't any SFF in this match, then MM would have to be getting 68% or more before I'd consider him a threat to Link.

Mega Man never needed 68% in order to have a shot against Link.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Well, if your statement holds, then MM has NO chance in hell of beating Link.

Like hell. There is absolutely no way whatsoever to tell me Mega Man doesn't have a chance against Link. You have two totally contradicting performances by 2003 stats and it's all on what you want to choose on your stance. Most seem to going toward Mega Man/Zero despite how it's easily setup to have some strange workings in it and NOT Mega Man staying stable.


I'm with ya ChichiriMuyo. Zero's a damn beast.

I've just been saying such things for a while now, but everyone labels me as a fanboy. ;p
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I'm not acting stupid. That comment was made because I'm one example of many who have played the original Mega Man games, but not Mega Man X. Not to say that they don't share fans, but I would assume the fanbase is smart enough to realize that Mega Man X is different from Mega Man, and would thus vote accordingly. It was a compliment -_-

From: redline15 | Posted: 9/21/2004 8:49:08 PM | Message Detail
two thoughts.

1: why couldn't this have happened to magus...?

The quickest way into my good book is to say something good about Magus =)

2: no matter what "factor" is behind these results...proto man definitely deserves another shot at this thing.

I would also boot Protoman in favor of someone else from the MM series, namely Bass or Wily.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Unfortunately for MM, just being at his 2003 level won't help him. This match needs to show an "irregular" result very heavily in his favor if he wants to stand a chance against Link.

Wait, did I just see... oh yes, yes it was a major overperformance last round!
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"Does it not seem odd that they would each be strong enough to have an exact outcome as the extrapolated standings predicted?"

Does it seem odd that not one but two characters would have a new game in the last year and not rise in the slightest went Dante increased from DMC2 which is generally considered to be a bad game and was expected to have actually hurt him?

"I'm not anti-Sonic and then just neutral on the other characters."

But you are anti-sonic

'Both of them sound totally stupid"

Damn right they do.

"48% on the weakest link in the Noble Nine"

Um, that's pretty damn stong. Only 4 Noble Nine characters are above him, and we have yet to see if Zero will rank ahead of Sonic. But then again, Magus ranked ahead of Sonic, so it's not that hard. Two of the four ahead of him last year were SFF'd out this year, so we couldn't begin to guess hwo they'd rank in legit matches this year, and the other two faced a similar opponent. Maybe Zero was supposed to be ahead of those two all along.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I'm waiting (yes, waiting, novel concept, and one I'm usually against) until Mega/Snake to make another conclusion about Mega Man. This match does not jive with Mega/Tidus in the least, and I'm much more willing to use the results of Mega/Tidus instead of this one.

Thank you, logical one. That's the best thing in the world someone could do.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Yeah, I'm in denial. I mean, hell, I said he's performing as expected, but I'm denying that fact. Okay, sure, whatever. The sentance wasn't th best I've written, but it still clearly says that he is performing as expected.

I'm talking about the part where you told me to wait until the end of this match as if the result could be any different.

Funny, tell that to Shadow, who may have significantly decresed almost exactly proportional to another character in the last year, should MM's performance against Tidus not be a fluke while leaving him at the same level as last year projects.

Ever heard of Mario over Cloud in 2002?
Flukes like that DO happen.

Dropping proportionally, although very unlikely, is more believable since chars do age.
And drop due to time can be proportional.
Note that I'm NOT claiming that this is the case with those 2.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"The way I see it, neither has to increase or decrease."

If Tidus and Shadow didn't move then Mega Man goes up, a lot. If Mega Man doesn't move then Tidus and Shadow go down, a lot. There's no way around it.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

It's also easier to lean toward Mega Man/Zero because it follows what the stats predict, and we've already seen an example this year of a match between two characters in the same fanbase that didn't have SFF in Vivi-Sephiroth.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Possibly under 56% before it is over? Just... yikes. And given that I do not believe reverse SFF to exist... thanks for coming Mega Man, enjoy another Final Four, and don't let the door hit ya on the way out Link *****slaps you like the ho you are. Can I get an amen.

So because you believe it doesn't exist it will cease to exist? Spare me. I'm not saying this is what is happening, but there is no denying it being a possibility. As for his chance against Link, I still cannot wait until the performance against Mega Man has the majority switching their opinion on the matter yet again. I can't believe everyone suddenly is looking at this as a major weakness as last round as a "fluke".
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

He never had a chance to begin with.

He most certainly does have a chance against Link.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

This match makes me think that the majority of Mega Man fans here on GameFAQs are classic Mega Man fans. This match doesn't really seem like Mega Man vs. Zero. It seems like Mega Man vs. Mega Man X.
---
SC2K4 Score: 64/72
Today's Pick: Mega Man

Ever heard of Mario over Cloud in 2002?
Flukes like that DO happen.

Except that was by no means a fluke. Wasn't it curious how Mario and Link were the two finalists in that contest? Let me tell you about a little thing called the "Kingdom Hearts Factor". Kingdom Hearts was a game with cameos by Sephiroth and Cloud. After its release, Sephiroth and Cloud dominated 2003.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

There's no way around it.

Sure there is. I've already explained it a million times. Whether or not you believe it is another matter entirely.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I'm not acting stupid. That comment was made because I'm one example of many who have played the original Mega Man games, but not Mega Man X. Not to say that they don't share fans, but I would assume the fanbase is smart enough to realize that Mega Man X is different from Mega Man, and would thus vote accordingly. It was a compliment -_-

It doesn't matter if this is X or not. There are still plenty of people who could vote for Zero over the classic Mega Man and be a fan of both of them. This isn't a different series in the sense of something like Mario and Zelda. I take it most would know this is the classical Mega Man, but that doesn't mean they don't like him and Zero more.


Heck, I've seen all sorts of combinations from people.

X > Zero > Mega Man
Mega Man > Zero > X
Zero > X > Mega Man
etc.
etc.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Wow, I never imagined that this match would spark more controversy than Mario vs Crono III...

It's an SFF match. We don't use SFF matches when we do stats. I don't care what happens in them.

Somebody brought up Vivi earlier. Vivi's strength is based on DK's strength last year, which I have never really bought. I still think something fishy may have happened in that match.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

It's also easier to lean toward Mega Man/Zero because it follows what the stats predict, and we've already seen an example this year of a match between two characters in the same fanbase that didn't have SFF in Vivi-Sephiroth.

Of course, people fail to see that there can and will be something odd that could happen in matches with characters from the same fanbase. People want to take the easiest way out and just claim that Link has his spot in the finals against Cloud. You'll notice that Sephiroth/Vivi is one example, but that's why it's called the exception and not the rule.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I don't think we should use this match to determine Mega Man's strength. Mega Man already had given us a hint that he had gotten stronger than last year by spanking Tidus, but Zero could've easily gone up as well, though that doesn't explain the perfect X-sts match against Tommy Vercetti.
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SC2K4 Score: 64/72
Today's Pick: Mega Man

"Mega Man never needed 68% in order to have a shot against Link."

Heh, yeah, that was a rather rediculous number that was thrown out there.

"I've just been saying such things for a while now, but everyone labels me as a fanboy. ;p "

If they call me a fanboy they don't have a leg to stand on, and I say Zero's quite a beast.

"I'm talking about the part where you told me to wait until the end of this match as if the result could be any different."

The final result can always be different. Look at the final result of MC/Frog and compare it to this time of day, there's a bit of a diffence there. There's always room for change, and you'd have to be an idiot to deny that fact.

"Ever heard of Mario over Cloud in 2002?
Flukes like that DO happen."

No, never heard of it. I mean, hell, I was only here that day and saw the *****ing and moaning about PGC all day long the day after it, but I never heard of it. Sarcasm aside, we've pretty much figured out exactly why that may have gone down the way it did. What exactly did Mega Man have to give him a one time fluke?

"Dropping proportionally, although very unlikely, is more believable since chars do age."

Yes, and they fade out of memory after a years time, especially when a new game is released in their series, right?

"Note that I'm NOT claiming that this is the case with those 2."

BS, if you're saying that Mega Man isn't any stronger now then he was last year that's exactly what you're saying.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Does it seem odd that not one but two characters would have a new game in the last year and not rise in the slightest went Dante increased from DMC2 which is generally considered to be a bad game and was expected to have actually hurt him?

I can see them not rising, but staying equal to a new game as opposed to rising in so well that the outcome stayed the exact same. I'm not saying it's not possible, just that it doesn't seem that likely to me.

But you are anti-sonic

I don't like him, but that doesn't take away from the fact I like Ryu and Dante.

Damn right they do.

Thank you. Someone else who sees both as totally idiotic.

---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Wait.. magus had a solo game in Japan? Proof!

He didn't have a solo game, but he was a big part of the game. I can't name the game due to possible spoiler warnings, but if you really want to know, you can find it here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/data/28941.html

Not to say that they don't share fans, but I would assume the fanbase is smart enough to realize that Mega Man X is different from Mega Man, and would thus vote accordingly.

1. No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the public. - Paraphrased, P.T. Barnum.

2. As I've said time and time again, Ceej has out and out said that the name "Mega Man" in the summer contest represents all the "Mega Man" characters out there. Of course, as I've said before, it's obviously just lip service for the .EXE/X/Legends fans, as Ceej has shown time and time again.
---
Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon God: Zenithian heroine Sofia faces off against God Emperor Fou-Lu at www.rpgdl.com.

Except that was by no means a fluke. Wasn't it curious how Mario and Link were the two finalists in that contest? Let me tell you about a little thing called the "Kingdom Hearts Factor". Kingdom Hearts was a game with cameos by Sephiroth and Cloud. After its release, Sephiroth and Cloud dominated 2003.

I KNEW about the KHF damn it.
But even in 2002, the final should've been Cloud vs. Link.
PGC cheated Cloud to benefit Mario, that's why I considered that match as a "fluke".

My point is that MM vs. Tidus's result could be an "exception".
And hence it's too early to say that MM has a chance against Link.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"Mega Man > Zero > X"

The only logical choice. :)

"Mega Man already had given us a hint that he had gotten stronger than last year by spanking Tidus, but Zero could've easily gone up as well"

You'd have to use logic to take that possibility into consideration, some people aren't willing to do that.

"though that doesn't explain the perfect X-sts match against Tommy Vercetti."

I wouldn't call it perfect, Tommy was a tiny bit short of that. By that logic his gain isn't necessarily deffined proportional. Nevertheless... GTA:DP. There ya go.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

everybody's suggested dr. wily to replace proto man so far...but i really don't see him getting any votes.
i just don't think "crazy old man in a lab coat" will appeal to the average voter.
am i so out of touch...?

i'll admit that bass and sigma might be better choices than proto man, though.
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redline15: blasting off at the speed of light

This match is controversial for sure, but why should it be COMPLETELY ignored?

Yes. This is a SFF match, since when are these matches ever held in high regard? That's right, never. It should have NEVER sparked this much controversy and talk as it did.

Sorry HM, but I've never considered MM a thread to Link.
His match against Tidus doesn't convince me, and this match convinced me the other way around.

I never try to push everyone to believe that Mega Man has a shot at Link. I just don't think people have any sort of ground to work off of when they come off and say he doesn't have a chance this year. They'll bring up stuff like "Oh last year he faced Sephiroth..." or today's wonderful match "OMG! Look at the percentage! I'll ignore last year, call it a fluke, but this round is totally screwing his chances!"

---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

If Mario had still beaten Cloud, and had CJayC taken off all 3000 proxy votes for Crono, do you think Cloud would look hella stronger than Crono?
---
SC2K4 Score: 64/72
Today's Pick: Mega Man

One more thing to Leonhart: Mega Man was less than 2% stronger than Sonic in 2k2. So Tidus would be expected to get roughly 40% on Mega Man in 2k2. If that Tidus' performances on Mega and Sonic are analogous, shouldn't Tidus have gotten closer to 40% on the Blue Bomber, not 35%?
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

My point is that MM vs. Tidus's result could be an "exception".
And hence it's too early to say that MM has a chance against Link.

Some people are deadset on believing that was the exception yet this match cannot be an exception. That's what kills me, people look at this match and say Mega Man doesn't stand a chance; yet when they look at the Mega Man/Tidus match and call it an exception.


If anything this match is more of an exception than the previous one.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Must I mention YOSHI beating (or at least coming close too) Tidus and Shadow if Mega didn't increase again?

Good God, YOSHI!

That's like the people that think Samus' doesn't have a legitimate chance because Lara is on the level of CATS.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Well, Mega Man Zero 2 had been released during the contest off-season, and it was highly acclaimed to be better than the original, so many casual gamers could've taken interest in the Zero series, and thus, Zero gets more popular. I'm not saying this is a fact, it's a possibility. On the other hand, there's Mega Man X7, but no one cares about that.
---
SC2K4 Score: 64/72
Today's Pick: Mega Man

Wow, I never imagined that this match would spark more controversy than Mario vs Crono III...

I didn't either; after this morning I was totally expecting us to move onto future matches with maybe a little talk here and there. We've spent hundreds of posts discussing this matter, when there shouldn't have even been.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"PGC cheated Cloud to benefit Mario,"

LOL. Okay, *chuckles*, assuming that we chalk it all up to PGC... then where was MM's PGC for Tidus? I assure you, Planet Mega Man couldn't begin to account for a 10% difference in that match. So the other MvCl oddity, then? Where is MM's SMS? What game was released on the day of his match that game him such a huge boost? Give me any logical reason why MM's match agianst Tidus was a fluke that can hold up to the argument that TODAY's match is a fluke, and I might give you a shred of credit.

"My point is that MM vs. Tidus's result could be an "exception"."

And without any evidence or anything to even speculate with there's as much of a chance that this is a fluke as there is of that being a fluke. Please, bring some evidence to the table before you go calling one or the other wrong.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

The final result can always be different. Look at the final result of MC/Frog and compare it to this time of day, there's a bit of a diffence there. There's always room for change, and you'd have to be an idiot to deny that fact.

Except that this match has been stable all day, and the one you mentioned wasn't.

No, never heard of it. I mean, hell, I was only here that day and saw the *****ing and moaning about PGC all day long the day after it, but I never heard of it. Sarcasm aside, we've pretty much figured out exactly why that may have gone down the way it did. What exactly did Mega Man have to give him a one time fluke?

Read my other post about why I called that a fluke.

Yes, and they fade out of memory after a years time, especially when a new game is released in their series, right?

Did I said I was talking about those 2?
Never knew Shadow, but I won't be surprised if Tidus dropped.
ALL of my friends, including me, doesn't like him.
With casual votes on the decrease, I won't be surprised if he did drop.

BS, if you're saying that Mega Man isn't any stronger now then he was last year that's exactly what you're saying.

I NEVER said that MM hasn't increased, I'm simply not convinced that any increase he had is enough to put him on par with Link.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"On the other hand, there's Mega Man X7, but no one cares about that."

We said the same thing about DMC2, no... in we actually said that people likely hated DMC2. DMC2 still caused Dante to increase.

We said no one cared about FF9, either, and look what Vivi did. Just because the majority of this one, unimportant board doesn't care doesn't mean that the casual voter doesn't care.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

"Except that this match has been stable all day,"

A dozen sepperate claims of Zero increasing % during the day hours and basically no such claims during the night doesn't indicate that the match is so stable that MM can't gain ground back later on.

"Read my other post about why I called that a fluke."

They are unimportant, really. I've spent more time speculating about that match then you've spent speculating about all matches combined, I have no doubt.

"ALL of my friends, including me, doesn't like him."

Wow, unimportant. Really. I don't care about you or your friends. You make up, what, 3 or 4 votes (assuming that not all of your friends are die hard contest fans). The casual fans that don't think Tidus sucks makes up what, tens of thousands of votes?

"I NEVER said that MM hasn't increased, I'm simply not convinced that any increase he had is enough to put him on par with Link."

If MM didn't increase to his fullest extent then two characters who both had new games in their series dropped proportionately. If he did, then he is 2% below Link, at worst.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

As someone who has never played a single Mega Man and as someone who likes to think they're a pretty intelligent person, I would have had no idea that the Mega Man from the Mega Man series and the Mega Man from the Mega Man X series were different characters before reading this on the board.

And about Tidus and Shadow having to decrease. Umm hello? Mario anti-votes ring a bell? Shadow could have been not that popular all along.

And before anybody starts trying to disprove it, is there any proof that he hasn't gotten anti-votes?

From a mathematical standpoint to prove your hypothesis* that "Mario has no anti-votes", you would have to first disprove the null hypothesis which is "Mario does have anti-votes." Can you disprove it?

And what is so unlikely about Tidus decreasing? Hey you know what? It looks like Squall underperformed too. And hey! Sephiroth didn't do anything too spectacular either. Wow! When you think about it, no "new-school" Square character short of Auron and Sora (for which there are extenuating circumstances) overperformed. You know what?? I wonder if there could possibly be a connection of some sort.

Let's ask my good old friend Occam. He's a got a little saying that the most obvious solution is usually the right one. Gee. I wonder what that could be.


*Ignore my hypocrisy for now. I'm using this merely as a preemptive argument.
---
"It's a me-a, Mario!!!"--Mario Mario

And before anybody starts trying to disprove it, is there any proof that he hasn't gotten anti-votes?

Why would Tidus fall from his position because of Shadow anti-votes? Both had something of a new game in the past year and both of them would have to drop... like a rock.

And I ask you, where in the world have Mario anti-votes been proven?
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

LOL. Okay, *chuckles*, assuming that we chalk it all up to PGC... then where was MM's PGC for Tidus? I assure you, Planet Mega Man couldn't begin to account for a 10% difference in that match. So the other MvCl oddity, then? Where is MM's SMS? What game was released on the day of his match that game him such a huge boost? Give me any logical reason why MM's match agianst Tidus was a fluke that can hold up to the argument that TODAY's match is a fluke, and I might give you a shred of credit.

If you think that ONE match is enough to prove that MM is on Link's level, you have NO credibility whatsoever.

And without any evidence or anything to even speculate with there's as much of a chance that this is a fluke as there is of that being a fluke. Please, bring some evidence to the table before you go calling one or the other wrong.

Well, can you PROVE that this match is a fluke?
If you can't, you have no ground to stand on.

In case you've gotten everything wrong, let me say it once and for all:
I based my opinion primarily on 2003 standings, NOT on this match.
MM vs. Tidus is NOT enough to convince me that the 2003 results are no longer valid.
And this match strengthens my OPINION that the 2003 results are at least still close to being valid.

Which means MM is still not on par with Link even if he did increase.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

And about Tidus and Shadow having to decrease. Umm hello? Mario anti-votes ring a bell? Shadow could have been not that popular all along.

YOSHI! For crying out loud, YOSHI!

*runs away from monitor screaming "YOSHI!"*
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

And what is so unlikely about Tidus decreasing?

The fact that he'd be the only Square/Final Fantasy character to have a big drop of major significance for no reason whatsoever.

Squall is the only character who could come close, but his explanation rests within the Bomberman/Kirby/Alucard pack from 2003. None of them have dropped, in fact, they all looked to stay the same or gain.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"Mario anti-votes ring a bell?"

Yes, the same bell that rings when a cow takes a dump. You know, the bull**** bell.

"is there any proof that he hasn't gotten anti-votes?"

Is there any that he has? Zero's performance today makes it look like Proto could be ahead of Servebot, so logic prevails on that one. Morrigan could just be that strong. Shadow's performance against Tidus makes it look like a load of crap. Denton's performance against Mario essentially showed us they don't exist. Frankly, Mario has beaten fodder like they should be beaten, and any "evidence" to the contrary is obviously people in denial that characters they find unappealing may be liked by casuals.

Frankly, Mario anti-votes don't mean anything, because the people who hate him enough to vote for Denton will vote agaisnt him no matter who his opponent is. They are simply non-consquential to begin with and in such small numbers to insure that they are meaningless.
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And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

then where was MM's PGC for Tidus?

It's the Koreans trying to keep us on our toes.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

On Square decreasing:

Squally had the misfortune of going against two opponents from an 8 pack of characters that all overperformed. That's not a coincidence. Cloud and Seph look just as strong as last year, Tidus *may* have gone up due to FFX-2, Kefka might have gone up, not just gotten SFF'd, judging by how well he did on Knux and how well Knux did on Snake and how bad Pac Man did against Luigi, Auron was clearly affected by SFF last year, but he could have gone up, too, and Sora is apparently a beast. Oh, I forgot Crono probably going up. Square's looking mighty fine, if you ask me.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

YOSHI! For crying out loud, YOSHI!

Doesn't have to be that way, I say! Doesn't have to be that way!

In response to your earlier question, it's not impossible that a stronger character could overperform by a larger percentage on the same opponent.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Yes, the same bell that rings when a cow takes a dump. You know, the bull**** bell.

XD
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

It's the Koreans trying to keep us on our toes.

Obviously. The Koreans have totally warped any stats this contest could have.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Sorry, Leonhart, but I don't buy Mega Man overperforming by nearly 10% because Tidus doesn't like going up against elites.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Neither do I. Even against Sonic I don't believe that.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

The lowering of the poll placement decreased the number of casual "new-school" Square fans voting in the contest. That is my logic. I didn't state my logic, but I did *explicitly* state other examples to show why Tidus underperforming is not a fluke.


---
"It's a me-a, Mario!!!"--Mario Mario

Wow, unimportant. Really. I don't care about you or your friends. You make up, what, 3 or 4 votes (assuming that not all of your friends are die hard contest fans). The casual fans that don't think Tidus sucks makes up what, tens of thousands of votes?

My friends are what I would call "casuals gamers".
They don't have a definite favorite that they will support to the death.
To me, they represent the stereotypical "casual" population.

And did you just ignore the part where I said that casual votes are lacking in this contest?

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Or because Tidus fans prefer the elites. He's not exactly as hated as everyone makes him out to be, but I wouldn't call him beloved either. I'd say he could be Square's version of Donkey Kong. He has a solid fanbase, but not unusual for them to switch their votes for a more favorable character.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

The lowering of the poll placement decreased the number of casual "new-school" Square fans voting in the contest.

Then why is Sora now a beast? Why is Squally doing well? Why do Cloud and Seph dominate? Heck, why does Auron, who's from the same game as Tidus, overperform 10% on Scorpion? I don't buy that at all.
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Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Sorry, Leonhart, but I don't buy Mega Man overperforming by nearly 10% because Tidus doesn't like going up against elites.

Then please explain today's results because I don't believe Mega Man would underperform by 10% due to reverse SFF either.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I've already said I can't explain it and I'm not going to waste my time analyzing an SFF match. I don't stick any stock into them. Perhaps Zero(MMZ2, MMX7, MMXCM)/Vercetti(GTA:DP)/Max(8 pack last year, Max Payne 2) went up.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

"If you think that ONE match is enough to prove that MM is on Link's level, you have NO credibility whatsoever."

I am giving much, much more weight to that one match because it has fewer irregularities than this one. Unfortunately, child, you're not capable of putting my credibility into question here, I assure you.

"Well, can you PROVE that this match is a fluke?"

No more than you can prove MM's last was a fluke. The evidence is stacked more agaisnt this one than that, though.

"I based my opinion primarily on 2003 standings, NOT on this match."

Yeah, and that was a whole year ago. The world doesn't stand still. Character strength can and does change AND the 2k3 standings have their own flaws that you aren't even taking into account.

Besides, for Tidus to fail that misserably against MM not only would you be considering it a fluke in 2k3 stats but also 2k2 stats. Tidus has been a consistant performer, why would he suddenly and inexplicably drop like that?

"Which means MM is still not on par with Link even if he did increase."

That's all dependant upon how close MM has to be to be "on par" with Link. If he comes up 3-4% short of Link I'd call that on par, it's certainly far closer than anyone got to Link in 2k2, and it's also far closer than anyone got to C/L/S in 2k3.

3-4% is a lot closer to "on par" than 11%, right?
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Then why is Sora now a beast? Why is Squally doing well? Why do Cloud and Seph dominate? Heck, why does Auron, who's from the same game as Tidus, overperform 10% on Scorpion? I don't buy that at all.

I *explicitly* stated that there were extenuating circumstances for Sora and Auron.

And Squll did *not* overperform. He underperformed in both of his matches. Also, Cloud and Sephiroth have not dominated. Hell, Sephiroth couldn't even get SFF votes on Vivi.
---
"It's a me-a, Mario!!!"--Mario Mario

I've already said I can't explain it and I'm not going to waste my time analyzing an SFF match. I don't put any stock into them.

Even when Mega Man underperforms by 2003 standards?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Jeez... Just think logically people. Which has a higher chance of being a fluke. A match with NO irregularities or a match with completely unpredictable SFF between two characters from different sub-sets of the same series but different generations, both having starred in their own games. That's what I thought.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Besides, if anybody deserves a second chance for recieving a screw job it's Raiden. Again, I'm not even a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games but I do think Raiden was screwed more than anyone else in contest history.

No.. This has to be Aeirth...

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Cloud's as strong as he was last year. He's dominating.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

I didn't say Squally overperformed, either. I said he went up against two characters from an 8 pack of characters last year that have all overperformed. Coincidence?
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

"[Cloud]'s dominating."

What? How about Samus, performing well above what she's expected? Or how Cloud is actually not doing quite so well as last year? Or the fact that Link performed better against CATS than Cloud did?
---
Currently Supporting: Link and Samus.
"I do read sometimes." Mat Cauthon, The Wheel of Time.

A match with NO irregularities or a match with completely unpredictable SFF between two characters from different sub-sets of the same series but different generations, both having starred in their own games.

A 10% overperformance vs. a match that follows 2003 stats or requires 10% of reverse SFF to explain.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

To thoroughly mess this round up, i want Sora to receive 44 percent on Samus. That would be fanatstic.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

What? How about Samus, performing well above what she's expected? Or how Cloud is actually not doing quite so well as last year? Or the fact that Link performed better against CATS than Cloud did?

I'd be the first one to bring up Samus, but yes, Cloud is dominating his opponents. He did just as well against Vyse as he was supposed to, and Milkem clearly got a percent or two of joke votes. Yes, Samus and Link are doing incredibly well, too, but Cloud is still dominating, even if he's no different from last year.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

Maybe die hard Mega Man fans prefer Zero to Mega Man. Maybe they see it as original series vs X series. I don't know why this match is going the way it is, and I don't particularly care.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

I'd say Link and his incessant blow outs are pretty dominant themselves.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

"It's the Koreans trying to keep us on our toes."

Though I'm fully aware that you were using sarcasm, from every indication I've recieve the Koreans would have supported Tidus over MM in comparison to other regions of the world, for the most part.

"Square's looking mighty fine, if you ask me."

Which is why it's rediculous to think Tidus would drop, or that he'd allow some fluke to occur without any reasoning.

"Doesn't have to be that way, I say! Doesn't have to be that way!"

Then MM went up significantly.

"Sorry, Leonhart, but I don't buy Mega Man overperforming by nearly 10% because Tidus doesn't like going up against elites."

Especially since Tidus didn't have some increadibly huge increase in 2k3, after bowing out to an elite the year before. If Tidus were "scared" by the elites he'd have looked god awful in 2k2 as well.

"The lowering of the poll placement decreased the number of casual "new-school" Square fans voting in the contest."

That really crushed Auron, too. I mean, hell, we almost can't tell that there was SFF for Auron last year because the "new-school" FF characters are all dropping like rocks.

"My friends are what I would call "casuals gamers"."

But they still don't represent the casual gamers that come here. Your evidence was anecdotal, AT BEST, and completely irrelevant.

"And did you just ignore the part where I said that casual votes are lacking in this contest?"

Which explains why we have practically the same proportion of bracket makers and vote totals, right? The same % of votes come from casuals as any other contest.

"Or because Tidus fans prefer the elites."

Why does this extend to MM but not Sonic?

"I'd say he could be Square's version of Donkey Kong."

Except that he has never shown inconsistancy in his performances.

"Then please explain today's results because I don't believe Mega Man would underperform by 10% due to reverse SFF either."

Sonic underperformed against Cloud.


---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Yeah, either way, one side has to ignore a result.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Zero vs MM seems more realistic to ignore.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Sonic underperformed against Cloud.

Okay, Sonic can underperform against Cloud, but Tidus can't underperform against Mega Man?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Anyone who actually thought Tidus would get 45% on Mega in a direct match-up is just crazy.

Then again, I was leading more towards 40-ish...
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

The whole idea behind Tidus underperforming against Mega Man is a whole mess of crap to begin with. It's right up there with Sephiroth overperforming against Link in 2002. Both of these reasons have been nothing but an "excuse".


Seriously, anyone who could possibly believe Tidus would perform consistently for two years and then suddenly drop has to be crazy.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Why does this extend to MM but not Sonic?

Who's to say it doesn't? All of the other strong 2002 characters in the West Division fell. Tidus could have underperformed by enough that he appeared to have gone up by comparison.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

"I *explicitly* stated that there were extenuating circumstances for Sora and Auron."

Yeah, so how do you explain every single Square character to whome you didn't extend the benefit of those circumstances?

"He underperformed in both of his matches."

LOFL. Sure he did, it had nothing to do with both characters comming from the same bad four pack at all. No, they couldn't have both been highly underestimated in the slightest.

"Hell, Sephiroth couldn't even get SFF votes on Vivi."

Hell, everybody says Link didn't get SFF votes on Samus and Mario, so what? Maybe Vivi is just that different compared to all of the other modern Square characters that he doesn't face SFF, or maybe he'd smack the crap out of 90% of the field.

"or requires 10% of reverse SFF to explain."

There is no 10% rSFF. Jesus, Zero has been in a couple of games since last year. Hell, he STARRED in a game since last year. You'd have to be an imbecille to take into the consideration that he should have increased in the last 12 months. God forbid that a character that stars in his own series wouldn't be capable of holding his own against a character that no more than roughly represents a character he co-stars with in an entirely sepperate series.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Sonic underperformed against Cloud.

Perhaps.. But I can still see Cloud putting up the same numbers on Sonic if they were to have another matchup.. I am not saying it would happen, but it could happen..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Raiden could be a contender in this, or at least as strong as Frog & Co., I believe, after seeing Link vs. Ganondorf SFF. Who's to say Snake vs. Raiden wasn't just as bad and Raiden isn't possibly top 32 material?
---
SC2k4: 69/72 (R1: Shadow, Viewtiful Joe, Jill).
Today's Pick: Mega Man

Anyone who actually thought Tidus would get 45% on Mega in a direct match-up is just crazy.

Care to explain why?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

I am giving much, much more weight to that one match because it has fewer irregularities than this one. Unfortunately, child, you're not capable of putting my credibility into question here, I assure you.

You're what, 12?
Using insults like that are lame and I consider that as evidence against your maturity.

No more than you can prove MM's last was a fluke. The evidence is stacked more agaisnt this one than that, though.

As I said, ONE match is NOTHING.
Give me ONE more like this and I'll consider your argument.

Yeah, and that was a whole year ago. The world doesn't stand still. Character strength can and does change AND the 2k3 standings have their own flaws that you aren't even taking into account.

Then why is Tidus dropping is so unbelievable?

Besides, for Tidus to fail that misserably against MM not only would you be considering it a fluke in 2k3 stats but also 2k2 stats. Tidus has been a consistant performer, why would he suddenly and inexplicably drop like that?

His KHF fading?
FF X-2 not living up to it's hype?
Less casual voters compared to 2003?

And it's just ONE match, I'm not going to get excited with just ONE match.

That's all dependant upon how close MM has to be to be "on par" with Link. If he comes up 3-4% short of Link I'd call that on par, it's certainly far closer than anyone got to Link in 2k2, and it's also far closer than anyone got to C/L/S in 2k3.
3-4% is a lot closer to "on par" than 11%, right?

My definition of on par is 45%+ on Link.
Sorry, but I'm not buying your arguments just on ONE match.

This is my official stance:
MM is NOT on par with Link until he convincingly proved otherwise.
And by convincing I mean at least 2 rounds of HUGE overperformance.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

RPGuy still has the best stance on this match. Why we are all putting forth such effort on a match that will have answers in less than a week is beyond me.

...no, scratch that, the people who believe Mega Man/Tidus was the oddity make no sense to me.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Because we've got nothing else better to do?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Well, discussion on the match is fine, but this has gotten blown into hundreds of posts worth of debate. Funny thing, almost all of it consists of speculation on both sides with a lot of it making little to no sense.

And while the discussion is slowing, I have to say that picture of Snake is absolutely horrendous. You can't even tell who that is...
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"Yeah, either way, one side has to ignore a result"

No, your side completely ignores a result, my side explains the result that is peculiar. Zero has reason to increase, and SFF is far, far more likely to cause a fluke result than anything between Tidus and MM. We've seen SFF screw things up, we've never seen a character perform exactly like TWO years of stats projects him to then collapse for no reason whatsoever.

"but Tidus can't underperform against Mega Man?"

You just asked for a reason, not a realistic one. And as I stated, we had two years of stats showing us exactly how Tidus was supposed to fare and he' never deviated from his projections. He's a solid competitor, and more reliable than Cloud in actual contest performance.

"Who's to say it doesn't?"

So you're saying that Tidus should have beaten Sonic but he got scared and collapsed for no reason? Not only are you saying that, but you're also saying that Claire Redfield should have placed higher than 13th and that may have been strong enough to beat Aeris and Ryu... maybe even go toe to toe with the likes of Magus if not beat him?
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Why clearly it is Mr. Hanky of South Park.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Anyone who actually thought Tidus would get 45% on Mega in a direct match-up is just crazy.

Care to explain why?

Well, maybe it wasn't as obvious to others as it was to me, and I don't have any statistical evidence or anything.

I would just call it a hunch. =/
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

Complimented 3 times by HM in about 100 posts. Hooray! Now if Chichiri would say something nice about me, I'd probably jump out my 9th story window, because then my life would be complete. ;)
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

No, wait, I take that back. If Tidus collapsed half as bad agaisnt Sonic as he did agaisnt MM for fear of elites Clair would be capable of beating Sonic and Snake, and probably Samus in 2k3.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

So you're saying that Tidus should have beaten Sonic

No...Never said anything about Tidus beating Sonic.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Like I have said earlier on page 27! =)

Lets not say anything just yet... Wait until Megaman vs. Solid Snake but then again.. Even if Megaman gets somewhat a higher percentage than what we would predict, there will still be people stating that Solid Snake's popularity has decreased so Megaman's overperformance means nothing and Link will still own Megaman..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Exactly. Which means we either wait until Link vs Mega Man or argue about it until then. Which do you think sounds like it is more likely to happen.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Ok, let's drop Mega Man discussion. (Like me saying this will do anything.)

What percent should Frog get on Snake to look respectable? How about for Snake to look good, what percent will he need?
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

Exactly. Which means we either wait until Link vs Mega Man or argue about it until then. Which do you think sounds like it is more likely to happen.

I guess the reason there's no question mark at the end of that sentence is because there really isn't any question as to which will occur...
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 68/72, Next Winner: Mega Man

I'm pulling for 40%+ on Snake tomorrow.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"Who's to say Snake vs. Raiden wasn't just as bad and Raiden isn't possibly top 32 material?"

Only a fool. Of course, I've been saying that since last fall.

"Using insults like that are lame and I consider that as evidence against your maturity."

What insult?

"Then why is Tidus dropping is so unbelievable?"

Let's see, he had two years of consistant performance, and everything in his first match this year indicated more of the same? Because FFX-2 came out, the casual gamers liked it despite what we think, and his name was everywhere?

"His KHF fading?"

Tidus never had KHF.

"FF X-2 not living up to it's hype?"

Anyone who says FFX could hurt Tidus is only working off of anecdotal evidence, the casuals clearly aren't that hateful of it.

"Less casual voters compared to 2003?"

As I already said, we have basically the same ratio of casual voters to bracket voters.

"And it's just ONE match"

No, it's two matches. S/T showed us exactly what we expected, so it supports T/MM.

"My definition of on par is 45%+ on Link."

Then you're just ignorant to the evidence that shows he can do it.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Seriously, anyone who could possibly believe Tidus would perform consistently for two years and then suddenly drop has to be crazy.

And anyone who could possibly believe that Megaman, Zero, Vercetti, and Max Payne could all massively jump in popularity despite Megaman vs. Zero AND Vercetti vs. Zero being right about where the Extrapolated Stats predicted them also has to be crazy.



I can't believe there are people honestly just throwing Mega Man's chances right out the door based on a match like this. Honestly, it's like people suddenly forget that he destroyed Tidus with Link like numbers.


Gee, could it be that maybe it's because Megaman's not even remotely close to destroying Zero with Link-like numbers? I know a lot of you guys are really passionate and really stand by your decisions, but most of this topic really sounds ridiculous. Only two characters have ever broken 40% on Link, in either the Extrapolated Stats or in direct competition. Now, Zero is near 44% on Megaman. For Megaman to have increased exponentially, Zero would also have to increased massively. Up until yesterday, noone in this topic considered or expected Zero to be a Top 5 caliber character. In fact, most people had already counted him out of the Top 10. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Now, suddenly, Zero becomes a Top 5 character because it supports the idea that Megaman can beat Link. Does anyone else find that a little preposterous? Gimme a break, guys.

---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

"Now if Chichiri would say something nice about me, I'd probably jump out my 9th story window, because then my life would be complete. ;)"

I read the first half and contemplated saying something nice... then when I completed the sentance I decided against it. You're umm... a noob, and stoopid. *Hopes RPG doesn't jump out of his 9th story window because losing cool posters sucks*
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I hope Snake can push to 65% on Frog. That would make him look really good, espicially coming off his less-than-impressive performance against Knux last Round. I would be fine with anything between 60-65% though. Anything under would make Frog look good IMO.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Mega Man vs. Zero - Bracket: Mega - Vote: Mega (68/72)

I'm staying out of this.

Both schools of thought make ridiculous assumptions. Obviously one of them is wrong, but since both of them rely on insane assumptions it makes no sense arguing which one. I'm going to happily avoid making a fool out of myself by randomly picking a cause without any proof. I'll enjoy laughing at half of you in a week or so when this finally gets sorted out.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Ok, let's drop Mega Man discussion. (Like me saying this will do anything.)

Out of respect for you and Ulti, I'll let HM and Chichiri have their last words against me if they want to, I'm done arguing.

As for Frog vs. Snake, I think anything above 40% is respectable.
I'll wash my face 7 times if Frog can break 45%.
And I'll get my eyes checked if I saw him winning.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I think Zero could be Snake straight up.
I think Magus could beat Snake straight up.
I think Gannondorf could beat Snake straight up.

And I plan on being proved right when Frog breaks 43% on Snake.

As for MegaMan. I can buy reverse-SFF as this would be the best situation for it. Still dont think he can beat Link, but I think he is stronger.

And anyone who could possibly believe that Megaman, Zero, Vercetti, and Max Payne could all massively jump in popularity despite Megaman vs. Zero AND Vercetti vs. Zero being right about where the Extrapolated Stats predicted them also has to be crazy.

Why can't Zero, Vercetti, or Max Payne increase? Zero has been in two games since last year; Mega Man X7 and Mega Man Zero 2, yes he had a starring role since the past year. Max Payne even had a brand-new game that was given pretty solid scores. Then you have the possibility of reverse SFF in this match. There are many problems wrong with this match, but Mega Man/Tidus is suppose to be the one that falls under the "fluke" category? Yeah right.


Gee, could it be that maybe it's because Megaman's not even remotely close to destroying Zero with Link-like numbers?

Somehow you fall right along with everyone else. Did you already forget the fact that he put up Link-like numbers just one round ago against a very strong Final Fantasy character named Tidus? Someone who has been more consistent than even Cloud.

I know a lot of you guys are really passionate and really stand by your decisions, but most of this topic really sounds ridiculous.

That's because there isn't really a solid explanation for what is going on today. It's not like there is one reason everyone can agree on with today's match, which is why people shouldn't put massive amounts of faith behind it hindering/helping Mega Man.

Only two characters have ever broken 40% on Link, in either the Extrapolated Stats or in direct competition.

Yet it would be impossible for anyone else to break 40% on Link? Mega Man has certainly proven he's capable of making up 2% and breaking that 40% barrier; in fact, he's already proven he can put up a solid 48.62% on Link this year.

Now, Zero is near 44% on Megaman. For Megaman to have increased exponentially, Zero would also have to increased massively.

This isn't a match like every other one out there. We call this a SFF match, and for good reason. You aren't going to get your typical results in a match such as this. You'd have far more ground using this in the next round should something similar happen--which it will not.

Up until yesterday, noone in this topic considered or expected Zero to be a Top 5 caliber character. In fact, most people had already counted him out of the Top 10.

Most people followed suit and expected this to resemble Nintendo/Square SFF we've seen in the past where the main character totally dominates over the other.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

wow, lots of discussion elapsed quickly...


Well, my opinion has been that of master moltar's, I never really though megaman was going to beat Link anyway, even if is match against tidus was all legit it still wouldn't be enough, and today really doesn't help megaman's cause either, even if it doesn't hurt it.

Also about Mario vs Cloud, I'll gladly accept pgc having an impact, but the release of sms is trivial at best imo. Why would releasing a game of his help? I just dont think that had much of an impact, and in semi-related note, didn't some megaman game come out today, if I remember hm said something about that last nightish.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

I hope Snake can push to 65% on Frog. That would make him look really good, espicially coming off his less-than-impressive performance against Knux last Round. I would be fine with anything between 60-65% though.

If you're rooting for Snake, I'd agree that anything above 65% is respectable for Snake.
Considering that he looks like **** in his contest pic, although it might not matter.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I read the first half and contemplated saying something nice... then when I completed the sentance I decided against it. You're umm... a noob, and stoopid. *Hopes RPG doesn't jump out of his 9th story window because losing cool posters sucks*

Hooray! And I can't fit out my window. It's pretty small.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

My two cents:

This match does make MM look weak. He will defeat Snake by about the same margin he will beat Zero with, and then Link will hand him his ass with over 57% of the vote.


Thank you, come again. I don't feel like arguing, so I will wait until Link vs MM to show you how wrong you all are.
---
SC2K4 Score: 70/72(Yoshi) Next Tough Pick: Sephiroth over Cloud
FF7>>>>me.

even if is match against tidus was all legit it still wouldn't be enough,

He would get 48.62% against Link. That's enough to have either side sweating and a winner being up in the air.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Sigh..... It's like talking to a wall. A large wall that doesn't believe in logic.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

Oh and Mega Man X: Command Mission was out today--at least for one of my stores. A great RPG for the Playstation 2/GameCube.


I'm having plenty of fun with it. =)
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I'm pushing for 40% for Frog, too, as he's one of my all time favorite characters. If he gets much higher than that, pics matter. Solid **** just can't stand up to the greatness that is Frog's sprite.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

I guess the reason there's no question mark at the end of that sentence is because there really isn't any question as to which will occur...

Exactly what I was trying to emphasize. >>;

But yes, that is actually the reason.
---
I bow down to smitelf, Queen ***** of the Universe. Her intelligence, wit, and sexiness have consume’d me.

Sigh..... It's like talking to a wall. A large wall that doesn't believe in logic.

Just take Moltar's advice and drop it.

We'll see soon enough who is right.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"No...Never said anything about Tidus beating Sonic."

If he simply throws away 10% of the vote against any and all elites then what you're essentially saying that Tidus is on par with 2k3 Sonic. Yes, he still would have lost, but the idea of him giving so much up to elites is rediculous.

"What percent should Frog get on Snake to look respectable?"

40%, assuming Snake increased some since last year, would be rather respectable.

"I guess the reason there's no question mark at the end of that sentence is because there really isn't any question as to which will occur..."

Indeed... the arguments will continue at least until this topic fills!

"And anyone who could possibly believe that Megaman, Zero, Vercetti, and Max Payne could all massively jump in popularity despite Megaman vs. Zero AND Vercetti vs. Zero being right about where the Extrapolated Stats predicted them also has to be crazy."

Hardly. Those characters all have reason to increase, Tidus and Shadow have no reason to decrease.

"Gee, could it be that maybe it's because Megaman's not even remotely close to destroying Zero with Link-like numbers?"

Gee, SFF isn't cabable of outright breaking that stats, is it? I mean, we've only seen case after case of SFF screwing up the math, but this time has to be one of the rare exceptions (and they are rare).

"For Megaman to have increased exponentially"

Jesus Christ I hope you're just using the wrong word... Really, an EXPONENTIAL increase? It'd make me dizzy enough to puke.

"Zero would also have to increased massively."

He's been in several games since last year, he even starred in his own, why is it that Zero can't increase again?

"Up until yesterday, noone in this topic considered or expected Zero to be a Top 5 caliber character."

We still don't, unless you consider someone overlooking Mega Man himself to get Zero there fair consideration.

"In fact, most people had already counted him out of the Top 10."

For one reason and one reason only, we expected MM to gain massively from SFF.

"Go look it up if you don't believe me."

I don't have to. I, unlike you, am aware of the circumstances revolving around that misjudgement.

"Does anyone else find that a little preposterous?"

Only if you don't know the circumstance behind one evaluation of Zero and didn't read the correction made about the other.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

If he simply throws away 10% of the vote against any and all elites then what you're essentially saying that Tidus is on par with 2k3 Sonic.

Nah, I was saying that the 2003 results are how it should have gone and they both dropped due to this whole WDF fiasco.

But whatever. I'm tired of arguing about this. Neither side is going to convince the other. We won't really know until next round.

For now, I'm going to listen to Frog's theme and calm down.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]

Are you sure you don't mean UltimaterializerX, Tsunami?


*listens to Frog's theme*
---
SC2K4 Score: 70/72(Yoshi) Next Tough Pick: Sephiroth over Cloud
FF7>>>>me.

Sigh..... It's like talking to a wall. A large wall that doesn't believe in logic.

Logic? You completely ignored the second round match against Tidus and proceeded to concentrate on today's match. Last round was Link-like numbers; this round isn't. There have been a few points from both sides that make some sense, while most of everything else doesn't.


And why Zero can't increase despite being in two games (one on the PS2 and one being his starring role) wouldn't make sense either.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

"I think Zero could be Snake straight up.
I think Magus could beat Snake straight up.
I think Gannondorf could beat Snake straight up."

I'd have no doubt taken that second option last year before we even had the extrapolated stats done out correctly. With how close Ganon was to Magus I may even take the third one. In a few days we'll know how smart the first would have been.

"Also about Mario vs Cloud, I'll gladly accept pgc having an impact, but the release of sms is trivial at best imo."

Your opinion doesn't even mesh up with Slowflakes, and he's usually one of the most adamant people to disbelieve any of the crazy ideas I propose in this topic (for which SMS's boos is one of). If even Slowflake can consider it very possible then it's very possible. Also, we've almost certainly decided that PGC wasn't capable of influencing more than a couple hundred votes. Maybe enough to give Mario the win, but certainly not enough to throw Cloud's standing off that badly. It took something else, something bigger, something that the casual voters may have bought that very day, and may have come to the site to find an FAQ for on that very day. A game. A game called Super Mario Sunshine.

"He will defeat Snake by about the same margin he will beat Zero with,"

Do you have any idea of the implications of that if you're correct? That means that Mega Man at least breaks 40% on Link, and that's a lot more credit than most others are giving him.

"Sigh..... It's like talking to a wall. A large wall that doesn't believe in logic."

If only people would listen when they are told that MM did something huge against one of the contests most consistant performers, then it wouldn't be like talking to a wall.


---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Are you sure you don't mean UltimaterializerX, Tsunami?

So far, I've never seen Ulti displaying that kind of attitude.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

"Nah, I was saying that the 2003 results are how it should have gone and they both dropped due to this whole WDF fiasco."

Tidus didn't drop in 2k3.

"Oh and ChichiriMuyo, I was talking to Heroic Mario, not to a conceited, egotistical know-it-all who never admits that other people can be right. Thank you."

Really? I'm not sure who you were talking about, but they might mark you for flamming if your words are that harsh. You should be careful.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

"So far, I've never seen Ulti displaying that kind of attitude."

So you didn't come around until after Vivi/Dk, then?

:) Still love ya Ulti :)
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Are you sure you don't mean UltimaterializerX, Tsunami?

LoL. Not this time, goku z.

And I'm not trying to make enemies here, but a couple of regulars in this topic really are conceited elitists that go out of their way to try to pick apart what a person says to make that person look inferior. I don't understand how people like that or their opinions can be respected at all.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

well, as much as I respect slowflake, just because he doesn't think so, doesn't really mean much. And, why didn't Mario do so well the next year then against Sephiroth, if all he needed to beat Cloud was a burst of votes from a new game's release? All KH factor? perhaps I suppose, but if the original sales for the game could generate that many votes to beat Cloud, why wouldnt' the subsequent sales of the game at least keep Mario closer to Sephiroth?
---
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Tidus didn't drop in 2k3.

I'm saying if Sonic had overperformed, Tidus would have dropped.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

It has nothing to do with making people look inferior. When you post something controversial in this topic you can expect someone to say something about it.

I can admit when I'm wrong, when I'm wrong. No one can be proven right or wrong on Mega Man's chances based on today's match. That's what the entire argument is circulating around.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Bah..... I suppose the best way not to make enemies is to shutup. But I never thought Megaman had a chance against Link and I still don't. For now, though, I'll let it go.

In other topics, I'm also thinking that Frog will get 43% against Solid Snake. That sounds reasonable.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

I think Frog could get 40% on Snake. But I think he'll get 42% on the turd standing in for Snake.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

I hope Frog puts up something like that. =) I love Frog to death so seeing him put up solid numbers like that would make me happy.


Heck, I'd love to see a Frog win...
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

I'm also looking forward to a hopeful Frog lead in the opening hour.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Link 48.39%
Cloud Strife 51.61%

now, that's similar to the projected Megaman/Link percentage if it was all Megaman gaining, right? That match was in question before the match, but come gametime, Link never really had much of a shot. Oh, and someone had said before that if Megaman beats Link that's all he has to do to win, but I don't agree with that, because there's still Samus, and PERHAPS Sephiroth, maybe Cloud.

---
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The only reason I want Frog to do well is for Master Chief, and for master chief only.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

"And I'm not trying to make enemies here"

Then you should be careful what you say. I won't hold a grudge, but I don't speak for everyone either.

"but a couple of regulars in this topic really are conceited elitists"

Slowflake already said I and many others in this topic have every right to be "elitist". Either you're jealous of some people's special rights or you jsut haven't been around long enough to realizing you're misjudging people.

"that go out of their way to try to pick apart what a person says to make that person look inferior."

But if you talk like that I can consider holding a grudge, just this once. I have no intention to make and person look inferior. I have every intention of tearing apart other people's arguement on a subject, but I and any of my "elitist" friends in here are intelligent enough to sepperate the poster from the post, are you?

"I don't understand how people like that or their opinions can be respected at all."

I don't understand how someone can come into a topic and act like the people who have devoted several hundred posts apiece to these discussions have no right to argue a point. I have every right to pick apart every argument that I feel like. If you say something and it has a flaw I will not hesitate to point that flaw out, if you make an argument that isn't solid I will not hesitate to show you and everybody else the shortcomings of that argument. That's what you do in a discussion topic when two sides are debating an issue... you find the flaws in their arguments to show that your side is more likely though neither is unltimately provable through simple discussion.

Once you have matured enough to understand these things you're welcome to come back and call me elitist if you want. Until then, accept that some people will always be there to shoot down every theory they can.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

now, that's similar to the projected Megaman/Link percentage if it was all Megaman gaining, right?

Pretty much, 48.62%.

That match was in question before the match, but come gametime, Link never really had much of a shot.

So would you say that Link has no chance of beating Cloud this year based on that? Or that it would be unlikely? That's basically what would be said about Mega Man in the projection.

Oh, and someone had said before that if Megaman beats Link that's all he has to do to win, but I don't agree with that, because there's still Samus, and PERHAPS Sephiroth, maybe Cloud.

That was me, and honestly do you see Mega Man losing if he manages to beat Link? I couldn't see anyone beating him after that.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Personally, I don't think anyone has the right to be elitist, you can still debate effectively without being condescending.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

Heh, I love how you put Samus first. :)
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

If Samus beats Cloud, I'd see it. I still say Cloud is stronger than Link this year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

*still gloating for being the only one even close to correctly predicting Mario/Crono*

Anyways, Link/Cloud is iffy. I'm not sure who would win, though I'd like to believe Link has the edge. Of course, I'd also like to think that Mega Man and Samus can take them both. Samus looks like a possibility, Mega Man looks iffy. But don't underestimate Zero. As a MM fan I can tell you that Zero did quite a bit of leeching from MM.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Up until yesterday, noone in this topic considered or expected Zero to be a Top 5 caliber character. In fact, most people had already counted him out of the Top 10. Go look it up if you don't believe me. Now, suddenly, Zero becomes a Top 5 character because it supports the idea that Megaman can beat Link. Does anyone else find that a little preposterous? Gimme a break, guys.

*applauds*

By the way, I admit others are right when I'm actually proven wrong. The trick, of course, is managing to prove me wrong.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

hehe, yes I liked that too

So would you say that Link has no chance of beating Cloud this year based on that? Or that it would be unlikely? That's basically what would be said about Mega Man in the projection.

Right, and I agree with that. And, then, I guess if Tidus/Megaman was his real strength, which it really should have been, then he does have a shot at Link, but hurting megaman, was that prior to Link/Cloud, it was projected that Link would win, not that the percentage would fall the way they did.

And, should he beat Link, to dismiss Cloud too is almostl ike saying that Link is stronger than Cloud again, which he isn't just yet, so yeah, I wouldn't guarantee it for him. What would really make me happy at this point, is for Link to beat Megaman Samus to beat cloud...wait..no, because link will probably beat her again... so I suppose megaman can beat Link, Samus beats whomever, and then Samus can take down megaman.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

Personally, I don't think anyone has the right to be elitist, you can still debate effectively without being condescending.

Thank you, FastFalcon. It has nothing to do with maturing, ChichiriMuyo; it has to do with being pleasant to talk to and debate with.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

For the fun of it...

Assuming TIDUS stayed the same, and ajusting others accordingly...

(In Standard Link)
Mega Man 48.62%
Zero 42.79%
Tommy Vercetti 32.66%
...
Aeris - 32.81%
Squall - 31.72%

That cracked me up XD
---
SpC2k4 - Triple Crown Winner! (Spread Betting, Betting, Oracle),
SC2k4 Oracle Challenge - Topic ID : 16274996

"And, why didn't Mario do so well the next year then against Sephiroth, if all he needed to beat Cloud was a burst of votes from a new game's release?"

Umm, Sephiroth had his own appearance in a new game in the time since Mario's last significant appearance.

"why wouldnt' the subsequent sales of the game at least keep Mario closer to Sephiroth?"

I'm more likely to look for an FAQ the day I get the game. I'm likely to buy a game on its release if I want it badly. I have no doubts that on that day there was a huge influx of casual voters that could have been there for the single minded purpose of finding the necessary FAQ. In fact, if there was any way to prove or disprove it I'd put my account on the line that there was a higher influx of people here looking for SMS FAQs than there were PGC members.

"I'm saying if Sonic had overperformed, Tidus would have dropped."

And I'm saying Tidus is a consistant performer, which is why he was practically the same in 2k3 as he was in 2k2, and his match against Shadow makes him look practically the same for a 3rd year in a row. I can accept some change, but not that much.

"now, that's similar to the projected Megaman/Link percentage if it was all Megaman gaining, right?"

Yes, Cloud and Mega Man have something in common, based solely on last years stats and not taking into consideraion anything that has happen so far this year both were/are expected to beaten pretty badly by Link. Cloud beat the math, it's not impossible for Mega Man to do that same.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

was that prior to Link/Cloud, it was projected that Link would win,

No, from Cloud/CATS on Cloud was projected to win.

so I suppose megaman can beat Link, Samus beats whomever, and then Samus can take down megaman.

Exactly.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
Supporting Samus over Mega Man for the finals!

true, but if we can use cats for cloud, we can use him for Link, and then Mega would still need to have done better to match Link's new percentage against Cloud based off cats.
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

Tommy Vercetti 32.66%
...
Aeris - 32.81%
Squall - 31.72%

To quote Squall, "........."
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

That's true, too.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

Using CATS wouldn't seem to me to have that great of significance. He overperformed by 1.35% of his projection and 0.93% on Cloud's projection. That's still far lower than what Cloud had put up for an overperformance.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

But, the first match is generally not as reliable as other matches. See Mario/Servbot. Plus, Link definitely had the wow factor going for him with that awesome Zelda XI pic.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

"Personally, I don't think anyone has the right to be elitist, you can still debate effectively without being condescending."

It's all viewpoint, not fact of the matter. I've come off as being condecending towards Ulti, HM, and Slowflake before to some people and I have all the respect I could have for them. Just because someone can read it that way doesn't maen it is intended that way.

"it has to do with being pleasant to talk to and debate with."

I don't have to be pleasant to get my point across effectively, and if you find me unpleasant you're welcome to not get involved. There are more than enough people in this topic who can debate a subject wih me without taking my attacks on their theories as an attack upon themselves.

And I assure you, you need to do same maturing before you're ready to debate with me. I'm agressive, and anyone who argues with me simply has to accept that. Don't bother defending your maturity, if you had enough to handle this thread you wouldn't make remarks like "Oh and ChichiriMuyo, I was talking to Heroic Mario, not to a conceited, egotistical know-it-all who never admits that other people can be right. Thank you." when the person you were talking to didn't even know you existed until you said it.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Mega Man 56% 43685
Zero 44% 34320
TOTAL VOTES 78005

Quite a solid performance from Zero.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Whoo-hoo! The overperformance continues!
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

Yes, that's right, I just said I didn't even know he existed until he directed a comment towards me. And here he keeps saying he doesn't want to make enemies, heh.

Man, if you weren't a Lunar fan I would give you the reaming of a lifetime.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Ah, you mean Reggie-lution Link. Sure, he had the "wow" factor, but I don't think he would have gotten many votes out of it that he didn't already have. LTTP Link still destroyed Yoshi...

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Huzzuh for Zero. Grats on 54% ^^
---
SC2K4 Score: 70/72(Yoshi) Next Tough Pick: Sephiroth over Cloud
FF7>>>>me.

Tell me, what role does Zero play in this newly released game? Is he considerably equal to Mega Man? If so, that too could have some sort of effect on this match... though minimal at best.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Just throwing it out there. If Milkem can get joke votes, it's not inconceivable that an awesome pic can draw half a percent of joke votes away.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

I don't have to be pleasant to get my point across effectively, and if you find me unpleasant you're welcome to not get involved. There are more than enough people in this topic who can debate a subject wih me without taking my attacks on their theories as an attack upon themselves.

And I assure you, you need to do same maturing before you're ready to debate with me. I'm agressive, and anyone who argues with me simply has to accept that. Don't bother defending your maturity, if you had enough to handle this thread you wouldn't make remarks like "Oh and ChichiriMuyo, I was talking to Heroic Mario, not to a conceited, egotistical know-it-all who never admits that other people can be right. Thank you." when the person you were talking to didn't even know you existed until you said it.

LoL, I have never seen a post that screams, "I am also extremely full of myself," as loudly as this.

Why don't you just add "I'm a better person than you," to your sig? If you solved whatever insecurities it is you have, the words you type wouldn't sound like that.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

Tell me, what role does Zero play in this newly released game? Is he considerably equal to Mega Man?

MMX:CM? He's got a pretty equal role in the game so far. I love his in-combat moves, much like Street Fighter with the combinations for his Z-Sabre attacks. A great voice actor too.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
*All bow Down to wg64Z, for He has pwnd me...again*

Like I said, I didn't know or care that you existed until you attacked me. I still could care less what you think about me, but if you don't want to make enemies why don't you stop trying to make enemies?
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

So basically, like everything else in the X series, Zero comes out looking as cool as and, more notably, as important as X. Would anyone wonder why SFF would be so unpredictable in such a match?
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

I was just saying in general, but you knew that anywayz I believe.

and yes, this is a very good performance from Zero, and going on completely pic/HESHOTZELDATHROUGHTHEHEAD past alone, my casual vote goes to Zero just for looking better and having a better image.
---
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That was a much more pleasant and reasonable response. Coinciding with that, I will drop it. It wouldn't kill you to be more pleasant more often, though.
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

"It wouldn't kill you to be more pleasant more often, though."

Says who? My doctor told me to be as biting as possible in my conversations or else I'll enter a vegetative state that will eventually lead to permant brain damage severe enough to cut off even respiratory functions. So maybe it would kill me.

Anyway, as I've stated before, it's only how you chose to percieve it that lead you to believe it was any sort of personal attack. I am by no means obligated to be pleasant to somebody else's theories, nor is anyone else.
---
And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist". - Slowflake

Says who? My doctor told me to be as biting as possible in my conversations or else I'll enter a vegetative state that will eventually lead to permant brain damage severe enough to cut off even respiratory functions. So maybe it would kill me.

XD


So basically, like everything else in the X series, Zero comes out looking as cool as and, more notably, as important as X. Would anyone wonder why SFF would be so unpredictable in such a match?

Well, I do wonder that, because if it was truly SFF in Zero's favor, then shouldn't it be enough for him to win? It just seems really unlikely that Zero could receive a boost from being in the same game as Megaman despite being the weaker character. If that were true, why did Magus get blasted so hard by Crono?
---
"You need a spanking!" - Mystere (Lunar 2)
^_~

Aaaaaaand, Mega Man's about to dip under 56%.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

"*still gloating for being the only one even close to correctly predicting Mario/Crono*"

I said Crono with 53%. O_o

I don't see what's so odd about Mega Man's percentage; most people who like Mega Man also like Zero, so we could expect many true fans of the Mega Man series to be more or less split 50/50.

-Dabu

Think fast. Click faster.

This topic is also done for.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Well, I'm off to bed. Hope to wake up to see Frog with over 40% on Snake tomorrow.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
Sweet Sixteen: Duel of Heroes vs. Cloud Strife

If that were true, why did Magus get blasted so hard by Crono?

They're two different scenarios. As previously stated, Zero has his own series of games, which Magus does not. Zero is playable from the start of most games, Magus is not. Zero looks like a girl, Magus... well, all right, they do have some similarities.
---
Dragon Warrior vs. Dragon God: Zenithian heroine Sofia faces off against God Emperor Fou-Lu at www.rpgdl.com.

*raises hand* I never liked Zero. I always compared Zero to Mega Man as I would compare Raiden to Solid Snake; a girlier-looking character that's meant to share the success of the original character. I've got nothing against Zero or Raiden, but I still don't have a reason to like them.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

And Mega Man vs Zero produces more discussion than Mario vs Crono. Didn't see that one coming.

I'm looking forward to Samus' match with Sora.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

Oh, Frog with 40% and all that jazz.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

I'll say Frog with 41% at most.
---
Summer Contest2K4 Status: 67/72 Today's Pick: Mega Man

Solid Snake's pic scares me from being absoultely positive Frog won't break 40%, but I'm still gonna say that I will be shocked if Frog hits 40%. With Aeris gettin' 43.36% on Snake in 2k2, Aeris gettin' 60.15% on Master Chief in 2k3, and Frog gettin' seven more votes than Master Chief...it's just hard for me to imagine Frog breaking 40%, regardless of Snake's picture and assumed drop.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Snake is expected to get 63.58% on Frog [Master Chief]
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

See? All the more reason for me to be shocked if he breaks 40%. If Frog DOES do that, there had to be an Aeris/Frog match next year.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Damn, you guys suck! I come home from doing a homework assignment at school and see 200+ posts of juicy arguments, many that I even had a LOT to add on. I FINALLY catch up with the discussion on page 50 and now you guys want to wrap it up and go to bed?????

AW HELL NAH!!!!!
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I still think Frog makes a run at 45%. Screw X-Stats; this is just based off of intuition. That, and the Square fanbase. I know it didn't get Aeris there, but again, just a hunch.

If Zero stalls even a little I might be set to win the Prophet Challenge. If Zero pushes, I'll lose, and if it continues at exactly this pace, then, well, it will be close.
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Aeris will have Advent Children by next year, though.

Unless SquEnix gets off their asses and remakes CT themselves (instead of a SaGa game), that's a pretty big advantage for the ultimate spoiler.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

And I really want to win it.
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Just for fun, Samus would be expected to get 57.2% against a Sora ceiling value.
---
Link (2002) --> Clinkeroth (2003) --> Megamus Clinkeroth (2004)
My life retain'eth it's meaning! We haveth our own will!

Go Frank Stallone!

Hoo ha.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]