I'm creating the next one before I go to bed, just in case. I'm also adding a ton of links.

Stats websites:

Everything you could ever imagine:
http://www.sc2k4.com

Sortable Table for Every Contest Match:
http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php

Explanation of Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/extrapolated.php

Summer 2002 Extrapotated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k2_extrapolated.htm

Summer 2003 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k3_extrapolated.htm

Character comparisons Between Summer 2002 and Summer 2003:
http://sc2k4.com/summer_comparisons.php

Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/spc2k4_extrapolated.htm

SFF Adjusted Spring 2004 Extrapolated Standings:
http://sc2k4.com/excel/spc2k4_extrapolated_sff.htm

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html

Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html

Stats topics:

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)

2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.

Spring 2004 Pre-Season:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason3.htm

Spring 2004 Contest:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats3.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats4.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats5.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats6.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats7.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats8.htm

MMXcalibur's Prophet Sites:
http://prophetchallenge.hyperboards2.com/index.cgi
http://www.freewebs.com/mmxcalibur/

Poll Vote Total Updator:
http://sc2k4.com/update.php (add "?pollid=[4-digit poll number]" at the end of url to look at charts from past polls)

Summer 2002 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=15&page=2

Summer 2003 Match Pictures:
www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario0/contestpictures.htm

Spring 2004 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=2
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=17&page=3

Summer 2004 Match Pictures:
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18&page=1
http://sc2k4.com/frog/view.php?gid=18&page=2

!yawA tsoP
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

0_o

That's a lot of links.
---
Current Pick: Cloud; Current Vote: Vyse the Legend; Points: 45/48
CUTLASS FURY!

WHOAMG LINKS!!!!!!
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Nice extras.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario0/contestpictures.htm

Gee, I wonder why HM likes the extras? ~_^
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

good stuff.
---
My luck works best when things are... random. Mat Cauthon from The Dragon Reborn

if you're going to add the prophet challenge, the other contests should be added too...
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

ha, and no I odn't 'mean survivor before anyone says it
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

I only added the Prophet Challenge because I help run it. I suppose I COULD add spread betting and all that jazz, but those links all die with the purge. Those PC links will be there forever.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

yeah, but still, just because you run it doesn't mean it should go there, the oracle challenge should definitely be there though, spread betting does die every day, so maybe that could be left out, but the oracle challenge topics take a while to die
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

eh, i change that, prohet does make sense long run, but oracle's important too, either way, not a big deal
---
Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

*tag* Nice showing by the fluffball.
---
Anxiously awaiting... SQUALL vs. kirby

Nice links you added there, Ulti. Hope those links become a regular part of the first post of each topic.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

Tag.
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

From: The Wise Tonberry | Posted: 9/12/2004 7:02:28 PM | Message Detail
Nice links you added there, Ulti. Hope those links become a regular part of the first post of each topic.

They'll be in all of the topics, and I'd like for the stats topic regulars to know that just in case they make a topic on one of the many occasions where I'm not around to see the end of it myself.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Booyah, I got #500 in 57.

And Mega Man officially rocks.
---
Summer Contest Match 42Squall vs. Kirby
Status 39/42 Points: 049 Next: Auron vs. Ness

ack! My question went overlooked in that topic.

I've never played a megaman game, but really want to. Would the megaman anniversary collection be good to experience what megaman is all about?
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

You're in my situation.

Go. Buy. Play. Now.
---
Summer Contest Match 42Squall vs. Kirby
Status 39/42 Points: 049 Next: Auron vs. Ness

Well the first 8 games in a series tend to give you a good feel for the series, so yes.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

MMAC got me into Mega Man. It rocks, and at 10 games for $30, how can you lose?
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Cloud vs. Squall match:
I think it will be EXTREMELY difficult for Cloud to break 80%.. Cloud will be lucky to break 75% on Squall..

Hey Heroic Mario.. I have a question for you.. =)
You said that Cloud is in your "favorite characters list" but what would happen if Megaman does beat Link and then loses to Cloud in the finals? hehe.. Would this change your opinion at all? =)

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Buy and play, young one, and enjoy.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Are any of the latest MM games any good?

The Mega Man Zero series on the Game Boy Advance is exceptional. MMZ and MMZ2 are out at the moment with MMZ3 later this year. Another good series out on the GBA is Mega Man Battle Network. It's not the typical platformer style of Mega Man, but focuses more on a strategy/RPG type game.

Mega Man X hasn't exactly been great since about X4, but with Mega Man X: Command Mission coming out on September 21st and Mega Man X8 in November there could be a pickup in quality.

Your best bet is to aim toward the handheld games at the moment, because the console games aren't the greatest things out.

Will MM be able to shoot anywhere in the later games?

It's always been that Mega Man shoots forward while someone like Bass can shoot in 8 different directions. Any 2D Mega Man could will have him shooting in only one direction unless Capcom changes it later on.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

so its basically a compilation of the first megaman games? Cool, I'll check that out. I need something to play before MP2 in november.

MMAC or tales of symphonia?
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

I'd say Tales, but you can look at my username and guess why. They're both awesome, in any case.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

I've never played a megaman game, but really want to. Would the megaman anniversary collection be good to experience what megaman is all about?

Definitely. If you're looking for a way to jumpstart into the Mega Man series this is the best way! You can pickup Mega Man Anniversary Collection for $29.99 for the GameCube or Playstation 2.

Again, if you need a way to realize why everyone likes him this would be it. You get 10 games and plenty of unlockables. =)
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

MMAC would probably last you longer. Unless you are some sort of gaming god. And it's cheaper too.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

niice, thanks guys, I'll probably pick it up tomorrow and experience what its all about :)
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

Hey Heroic Mario.. I have a question for you.. =)
You said that Cloud is in your "favorite characters list" but what would happen if Megaman does beat Link and then loses to Cloud in the finals? hehe.. Would this change your opinion at all? =)

I'd be upset to see Mega Man lose to Cloud, because there is quite a gap after Mario and Mega Man. Cloud falls into the third-fifth area on my list and should he be good in Advent Children he'll sit nicely at third and secure that spot.

To answer the question, I'd be mad for a while, but it wouldn't jeopardize my liking of him. =p
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Also, while many would disagree with me, if you have both a PS2 and a GCN, get the gamecube version. Since you've never played Mega Man ANYWAY the swapped buttons won't matter.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I'd go with MMAC over Tales of Symphonia. ;)
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Definately get MMAC. I got it and I have MM1-5, and MM8 so I paid $39.99 CDN for 2 older games and I am still very happy with my purchase, besides it got me into Mega Man again.
---
Current SC2K4 Score: 49/50
COWS are for Milking, not GAMES

Thanks HM, I've played until 4 or 5 I believe, of the original ones.

I guess I'll pass on the rest though, I got really frustrated by the forward-only policy.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Good grief. I skimmed over much of the last topic and I saw all this nonsense about Sephiroth being stronger than Cloud last year, yet still losing to him. I thought we ditched this long ago.

It is very safe to say that Sephiroth would not have done as well against Sonic or Link as Cloud did. And that Cloud would've done better against Mario and Mega Man that Sephiroth did. There is very, very little reason to doubt this. Fact is, Link probably would've done at least as well against Mario and Mega Man as Sephiroth did. In 2K2, Sephiroth > Cloud. In 2K3, Cloud > Sephiroth. I have no idea why people find this so difficult to accept.

Everyone knows how reluctant I am to make strong statements about anything, but really, there's not even much to discuss here.

There is no such thing as "Hero always beats villain" factor. Generally speaking, the hero will almost always beat the villain--but that's no "factor", that's just because heroes are more popular. Sephiroth is just unique.

Well, perhaps I shouldn't say unique--for some other games with ensemble casts/no primary hero (e.g., Suikoden series, Final Fantasy VI--though IMO Shadow would do better than Kefka), the villain would probably be the strongest. (also, in games such as Lufia, the title character would likely do better than the main hero simply because nobody has heard of the main hero, whereas some people might recognize the title of the game and thus make her less of a complete jobber)

But in games where this is a definitive hero, the hero will just about always be strongest--except for Sephiroth, who's about the same as Cloud and whose relative popularity to Cloud is non-constant.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

The only reason I think Seph would be more popular is from less anti-votes.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I saw all this nonsense about Sephiroth being stronger than Cloud last year, yet still losing to him. I thought we ditched this long ago.

Well, until everyone in Sephiroth's half of the division last year started overperforming by 4-5% against their opponents. That's too weird just to be a coincidence.

Oh, and Squall looks set to break 55% by the end of the match. Not as good as I'd hoped, but all things considered, he did well.

I'll go out on a limb and say it: Cloud will NOT get 80% on Squall. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, as you won't be likely to see me for a while afterwards.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

The lower vote totals this year seem to be helping Sephiroth, though I didn't know that while making my bracket. I just figured it was someone else's turn to win, and Sephiroth was the only one strong enough to do it. But, and I've said this before, Megaman and Samus may surprise us this year.
---
SC2k4 Predicted Contest Winner: Sephiroth
48/50/192 Next tough pick: Sora

Squall vs. Cloud--I think Cloud will get 73%-80% there. I'd be quite surprised to see Squall do better than Auron did last year.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

Go Megamus!
---
SC2k4 Predicted Contest Winner: Sephiroth
48/50/192 Next tough pick: Sora

I'll go out on a limb and say it: Cloud will NOT get 80% on Squall. If I'm wrong, it won't matter, as you won't be likely to see me for a while afterwards.

Your statement will be proven right, since Cloud and Squall doesn't quite share the same fanbase.

That said, Squall will be hard pressed to exceed Auron's performance against Cloud in 2003 contest.

---
Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Cloud will get between 75-80% on Squall. Factoring in a slight Squall decrease and a chance of possible SFF, this seems about right. If Cloud gets over 80% on Squall....then that will be crazy.

And I'm with CN here, Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth, and not because of some Hero beats Villian factor. It's just a coincidence about his part of the bracket.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Kirby vs. Squall - Bracket: Squall - Vote: Kirby (48/50)

If reverse SFF exists, I plead for it to happen in that match. And I'm not asking for enough to make Squall win. Just give me enough to keep him from getting doubled and I'll be happy.

Would a picture of "Leon" be more inclined to draw more votes for him than FFVIII Squall due to higher recognizability? His design is pretty different in Kingdom Hearts, and he doesn't even have the same name.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Additionally, it's not even everyone on Seph's half of the bracket, just his half division, and all that would mean is Seph overperformed against Max and Alucard.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Seems like every anomaly in this contest can be explained by Sephiroth overperforming.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

My bracket is screwed if Sora doesn't beat Ryu H. </random rant>

Ok, anyways:

And I'm with CN here, Cloud is stronger than Sephiroth, and not because of some Hero beats Villian factor. It's just a coincidence about his part of the bracket.

Agreed. Sephiroth is going to be SFF'D very hard, then Link will beat Cloud..yay!.
---
GameFAQs can gain justice from this petition! Please visit it at http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=15656619 (1104 Signs!)

Well, from being bored, here's something kinda fresh:

I'm sure you guys would be a little interested in how much the brackets would have supported certain characters who lost early, correct (i.e. how many brackets had Solid Snake beating Crono in 2002). Obviously, ithe formula's not totally accurate. It DEFINITELY does not work in the earlier rounds, due to a good amount of idiotic bracket makers that makes the loser actually look like he has a decent amount of support. There's also the fact that some characters are not very balanced in support in each subsequent round, such as Master Chief or Vercetti.

The formula is simple, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of you have done something like this before...I'll just give one example and hope you figure it out.

Anyway, I've decided to test it for a bunch of formidable losers:

20.88% predicted Cloud to beat Mario (R4) in 2002.

Knowing
72.52% predicted Mario to reach R4
53.53% predicted Cloud to reach R4

I took Mario's 44.24%, divided it by 72.52%, and assumed 61.00% of the brackets had whoever character they had winning in Mario's 8-pack also winning the division; thus 39% of the brackets must have a characters in Cloud's 8-pack winning the division; using 39% and multiplying it by 53.53%, we find that 20.88% of the brackets had Cloud winning the division.

Yes, 20.88% seems low, but you must realize what kind of odds Cloud has...14:1, as opposed to Mario's 6:1. That's less than half as good as Mario's odds! I'd imagine be a bit more than that would have Cloud taking out Mario, anyway, but much more than 25% is stretching it.

Here's other tests of the formula:
2002:
37.62% predicted Snake over Crono (R4).
9.91% predicted Samus over Sephiroth (R4).
4.39% predicted Crono over Mario (R5)
18.05% predicted Mario as the 2002 champ
2003:
54.34% predicted Link to beat Cloud
35% predicted Solid Snake over Mega Man
35.33% predicted Mario to beat Sephiroth
8.77% predicted Sonic over Cloud
Sp2004:
30.84% predicted Final Fantasy VI over Zelda: LttP
28.44% predicted FFX over SSBM
18.98% predicted LoZ over SMB3
17.85% predicted Zelda: LttP over CT
A pathetic amount predicted Zelda: OoT over FFVII
3.6% predicted Starcraft over SSBM
11.11% predicted SMB3 over CT (haha...screw the math here)

Whatever, a lot of it still doesn't seem all the accurate. Hey, it's still fun, though. Plus, there's odds and such we can also work with for the first two contests.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

It's just a coincidence about his part of the bracket.

How can everyone in his part of the division overperforming by around the same amount be just a coincidence?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

How can everyone in his part of the division overperforming by around the same amount be just a coincidence?

GameFAQs is just screwed up like that, very sad.

Lol..just kidding, I second what you say.
---
GameFAQs can gain justice from this petition! Please visit it at http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=15656619 (1110 Signs!)

The poll just broke 80,000. It's still ahead of the pace set by Tidus-Shadow, though not by much. It'll easily break 90,000 and will probably end up being the 2nd most popular poll thus far.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

*yawn* There was little to no SFF between Cloud and Sephiroth *yawn* Each character has a large enough fanbase to prevent that *yawn*
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

But they probably share more of the same fanbase than just about anybody.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

But it isn't like Link vs. Ganondorf where Ganondorf is basically riding on Link's coattails (no offense Moltar =(). Or maybe they are just split much more evenly....
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Well, there's a difference between sharing a fanbase and just getting rollovers from another's like Ganondorf does.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Well, until everyone in Sephiroth's half of the division last year started overperforming by 4-5% against their opponents. That's too weird just to be a coincidence.

You mean like Scorpion? Pac-Man? LARA!?

Let's break it down. Here's the results of every match that involved people from the North or East vs. people from the South or West from last year. (hopefully I didn't miss any)

Character A vs. Character B || A's expected % || A's actual % || Performance ratio || gross % gain (loss)
Ganondorf vs. Alucard || 60.31% || 57.16% || 0.9478 || -3.15%
Yoshi vs. Ryo || 76.68% || 76.4% || 0.9964 || -0.28%
Luigi vs. Pac-Man || 68.75% || 67.73% || 0.9852 || -1.02%
Conker vs. Crono || 23.78% || 22.01% || 0.9254 || -1.77%
Tidus vs. Shadow the Hedgehog || 49.95% || 50.81% || 1.0173 || 0.86%
Cloud Strife vs. Duke Nukem || 82.14% || 80.19% || 0.9763 || -1.95%
Squall Leonhart vs. Bomberman || 69.12% || 64.75% || 0.9368 || -4.37%
Auron vs. Scorpion || 56.95% || 64.85% || 1.1387 || 7.9%
KOS-MOS vs. Ryu || 37.41% || 37.87% || 1.0124 || 0.46%
Ratchet vs. Dante || 22.77% || 19.72% || 0.8661 || -3.05%
Sam Fisher vs. Gordon Freeman || 66.37% || 55.43% || 0.8352 || -10.94%
Samus Aran vs. Lara Croft || 69.89% || 82.39% || 1.1788 || 12.5%
Magus vs. Crono || 45.79% || 30.22% || 0.66 || -15.57%
Bowser vs. Mario || 40.56% || 29.35% || 0.7236 || -11.21%
Tidus vs. Mega Man || 44.37% || 35.22% || 0.7939 || -9.15%
Zero vs. Tommy Vercetti || 61.57% || 61.84% || 1.0045 || 0.27%
Cloud Strife vs. Vyse || 81.57% || 81.41% || 0.9981 || -0.16%
Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby || 58.47% || 55% || 0.9406 || -3.47%


The average gross loss was 2.45%, and the average relative loss was 6%. Hardly overwhelming numbers, but it looks like there might be something there...until you see the difference deleting just one match makes.

So get rid of Magus vs. Crono and Bowser vs. Mario--for obvious reasons. Now the average gross loss becomes 1.08%, and the average relative loss becomes 2.8%. These numbers are insignificant.

Of course, we should also get rid of Auron vs. Scorpion, since Auron may have suffered SFF. That makes the changes larger. But in that case, we also need to adjust Luigi/Pac-Man for possible Kefka SFF--so let's say that Luigi was expected to get 60% on Pac-Man.

So, our everything-adjusted-for numbers are: dun dun DUUUNNN...1.1% gross and 2.94% relative overperformance by people from Sephiroth's half!

Obviously, these are trivial numbers. Sam Fisher vs. Gordon and Tidus vs. Mega Man still stick out (and, in fact, are the only results that really stick out, outside of Samus vs. Lara--which sticks out in the opposite direction, and to an even greater extent)--but out of all the matches, why the hell would people take *these* to somehow support a belief that Sephiroth was stronger than Cloud last year? It makes NO SENSE.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

CN, what should I view that on? It's a bit difficult to read on 1000.
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

You mean like Scorpion? Pac-Man? LARA!?

Sephiroth's half of the division being Alucard, Bomberman, Kirby, Ramza (though he's not in this year's), Gordon Freeman, Max Payne, and Raziel (again, not in this year).

Pac-Man is the only character you mentioned that was even in Sephiroth's division at all last year. Zero wasn't even on his half of the bracket (Cloud's and Link's side), and Lara was on Mega Man's part of the bracket.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Excuse me, I meant Scorpion, not Zero.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

^What Mumei said. Plus Sephiroth is strong enough of a character to overcome that. After seeing what Link did to Ganondorf, and what Crono did to Magus, how could you say that there was SFF when there was only a 3.79% difference between them? That's about as legit as you can get. Cloud has every reason to be more popular than Sephiroth as Crono does with Magus (main character/hero, most visible face, etc.) If there was significant SFF, Cloud should have gotten way more on Sephiroth. 2 characters from the same game performing nearly equally against each other means that they are nearly equal, especially considering that they showed the same strength against everyone else.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Thanks, CN. I was going to do that, but, well, I'm too lazy. That table does make it clear that there was no Cloud/Seph SFF, and Seph's 8 pack (Max/Gordon/Alucard/Bomberman/Kirby) was just weird.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Um...you included Auron vs. Scorpion in your calculations. They were both in the top half of the bracket. Take that out, please...also, it'd be best to take out any weird matches, Luigi vs. Pac-Man, Sam vs. Gordon, and Samus vs. Lara, and any SFF matches. The calculations won't mean a thing when you average out every single match.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Sam-Gordon needs to be included because Freeman was in Sephiroth's 4-pack last year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

I'm still crossing my fingers on Samus. She may very well be my favorite character in this contest.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Mumei:
CN, what should I view that on? It's a bit difficult to read on 1000.

It's going to be difficult to read no matter what, sorry about that. The individual numbers aren't important though--you can work those out for yourself anyway. The averages are what matter. The only mathes that really stick out either way though are Auron vs. Scorpion, Ratchet vs. Dante, Sam vs. Gordon, Magus/Crono, Bowser/Mario, Tidus/Mega Man, and Samus/Lara.

Leonhart:
(Scorpion) wasn't even on his half of the bracket

Ah yes, my mistake. But that match wasn't included in the adjusted numbers anyway.

Sephiroth's half of the division being Alucard, Bomberman, Kirby, Ramza (though he's not in this year's), Gordon Freeman, Max Payne, and Raziel (again, not in this year).

What? What in the world does his half division have to do with *anything*? I thought you were mis-speaking "half of the bracket" when you said that.

Anomalies in Sephiroth's half of the division would only speak for Sephiroth overperforming for the first two rounds, then performing normally--which is not only an awkward idea, but it clearly has no relation whatsoever to Cloud vs. Sephiroth.

For Sephiroth 2K3 > Cloud 2K3 to make sense, you have to compare characters like I did. And the evidence is underwhelming to say the least.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

Sam didn't just underperform against Gordon...he VASTLY underperformed.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Squall vs. Kirby at 18:40:51 – 81,790
Tidus vs. Shadow at 18:40:55 – 81,271

SvK is ahead by 519 right now. At 18:16, SvK was ahead by 402, so it has pulled ahead slightly more since then.

It would be pretty funny if Kirby is involved in the match with the biggest vote total so far...

---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

It would just be flat out odd to have Squall/Kirby as the most popular poll.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Okay, looking at his half of the bracket...Kefka overperformed even beyond what his non-SFF numbers would have given him. Crono overperformed against Conker slightly. Max Payne overperformed against Vercetti by quite a bit. Dante overperformed against Ratchet. Duke Nukem and Vyse overperformed against Cloud, though only slightly.

Lara and Pac-Man are oddballs, but I'd say they're just fading away and dying off.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

I'd love it if Squall-Kirby ended up being the most popular poll. My two favorite characters bringing in the voters en masse...Good stuff.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Um...you included Auron vs. Scorpion in your calculations. They were both in the top half of the bracket. Take that out, please

My mistake, but again, that match wasn't included in the last averages anyway.

...also, it'd be best to take out any weird matches, Luigi vs. Pac-Man, Sam vs. Gordon, and Samus vs. Lara, and any SFF matches. The calculations won't mean a thing when you average out every single match.

Sam vs. Gordon was half of the basis for this nonsense to begin with (the other being Tidus vs. Mega Man). Note that Ganon vs. Alucard didn't mean much--Conker vs. Crono was more off in relative terms.

Taking Sam vs. Gordon or Samus vs. Lara out makes no sense, as extreme matches like that are the only ones that indicate anything anyway. The fact that they indicate contradictory things, should be a clear indication how unreliable this hypothesis is.

The SFF matches were taken out, as I said.

I didn't average out every single match...I give different permutations.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

It would just be flat out odd to have Squall/Kirby as the most popular poll.

Which is why it would be funny if it is. =P

I'd love it if Squall-Kirby ended up being the most popular poll. My two favorite characters bringing in the voters en masse...Good stuff.

I find it so odd that your two favorite characters are so.... completely different from each other. O_o
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Idiotic me. >.<

Well, hopefully by the end of Round 3 we'll start figuring some stuff out.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

It's Kirby who's bringing all these votes.

Don't ask about Squall though... >.>
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Kirby vs. Squall - Bracket: Squall - Vote: Kirby (48/50)

Okay, looking at his half of the bracket...Kefka overperformed even beyond what his non-SFF numbers would have given him. Crono overperformed against Conker slightly. Max Payne overperformed against Vercetti by quite a bit. Dante overperformed against Ratchet. Duke Nukem and Vyse overperformed against Cloud, though only slightly.

Kefka and Knuckles were both in his half. As were Max and Tommy. Dante and Ratchet was included, and mentioned. Cloud vs. Duke and Vyse were also included.

Support for Sephiroth suffering from so-called "reverse SFF" against Cloud couldn't be more flimsy, without actually becoming evidence for Sephiroth overperforming.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

It's Kirby who's bringing all these votes.

(>^.^)>

He might be pretty high up on the most impressive losers list...

---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

My taste in video game characters is unorthodox, I know that. I like Squall the best because he's from one of my favorite games, and I can relate to him quite well. Plus, he's such a dynamic and complex character.

Kirby's games are just plain fun. I love being able to take enemies' abilities and use them against them. I enjoy the diversity with him.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

You forgot to mention that Kirby has the easiest ASCII to do. (>^.^)>
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I like Squall the best because he's from one of my favorite games, and I can relate to him quite well. Plus, he's such a dynamic and complex character.

I smell an Ulti rant coming on...
---
For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to refer to Gordon Freeman versus Tanner as Schrodinger's Match. -Phoenix Flattener

It's Kirby who's bringing all these votes.

Don't ask about Squall though... >.>

Heh, I think he's more beloved in the FF fanbase than people believe. Final Fantasy VIII might always win the most hated FF poll, but Squall will be 2nd in the favorite main character poll, and he'll be closer to Cloud than anyone in the FF villain poll compared to Sephiroth.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

I think this match is brining in many votes because:

*It's the weekend
*Both are well-known, semi-strong (or better) characters
*Not only is it Nintendo vs. Square, but they have *completely* unrelated fanbases--the characters almost couldn't be more different

So traffic is probably higher, and the portion of the traffic that comes is more likely to vote (for an uninteresting match, or a match with characters they don't know/don't care about, many people simply won't bother to vote)
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

I smell an Ulti rant coming on...

He can rant all he wants. I never give his anti-FFVIII posts much more than a glance. He's entitled to his opinion.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

One thing I've been meaning to say about Pac-Man for a while. How can people say he is falling off.... after 20+ years? If anything, Pac Man SHOULD be the most consistent character in the contest, as most of his new games are insignificant to his popularity.

Also, have people forgotten that Pac Man is still very much alive on cell phones across the world? There shouldn't be any reason for him to slip in popularity all of a sudden.... Any fluctuations with his performance would be strictly for reasons out of his control, such as different voter base, or the type of character he is facing (Square, Nintendo, etc...) Just random blabber.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

*It's the weekend
*Both are well-known, semi-strong (or better) characters
*Not only is it Nintendo vs. Square, but they have *completely* unrelated fanbases--the characters almost couldn't be more different

So traffic is probably higher, and the portion of the traffic that comes is more likely to vote (for an uninteresting match, or a match with characters they don't know/don't care about, many people simply won't bother to vote)

I understand most of those points, except for the "weekend" part. I thought that weekends usually had lower vote totals...
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

or the type of character he is facing (Square, Nintendo, etc...)

Well, I've tried to say that before. I think Pac-Man can perform at his peak against a non-icon (like Kefka) based on his status alone, but when he goes against someone who can challenge that or take it away (like Luigi), he'll underperform.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

What's funny is that, while Scorpion and Luigi should be about the same strength, Luigi did Pac-Man in far worse than Scorpion managed.

If Scorpion overperformed against Link in 2002, maybe Pac-Man look better, but what about Max Payne? He couldn't possibly have been that weak, could he? Hm, or maybe that Penny Arcade site DID make a difference in Scorpion vs. Pac-Man. XP

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

But wasn't that one released after the match though?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Well, I've tried to say that before. I think Pac-Man can perform at his peak against a non-icon (like Kefka) based on his status alone, but when he goes against someone who can challenge that or take it away (like Luigi), he'll underperform.

I've said the same thing as well before... but I don't think people paid attention. The same thing can be applied to many more characters. I think it was a big factor in the Shadow vs. Mario match as well in a way. Some characters can easily have votes drawn away from them.

*Not only is it Nintendo vs. Square, but they have *completely* unrelated fanbases--the characters almost couldn't be more different

Which could be why Tidus vs. Shadow drew so many votes (in addition to it being a close match...)


---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Hm, or maybe that Penny Arcade site DID make a difference in Scorpion vs. Pac-Man. XP


Nope. The comic was made after the match was already over. I checked it out a week or so ago.
---
"Impossible is a word people use when they're too afraid to try."--Vyse

He can rant all he wants. I never give his anti-FFVIII posts much more than a glance. He's entitled to his opinion.

I like to see an FF8 fan taking my view on the game as the hyperbole that it is. Good show. I don't exactly see how he's dynamic though, but hey, that's your thing.

Half the reason I bash Squall these days is because I know some dumbassed anti-Ulti troll will make some idiotic post defending both him and FF8 to make me laugh afterwards.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

My taste in video game characters is unorthodox, I know that. I like Squall the best because he's from one of my favorite games, and I can relate to him quite well. Plus, he's such a dynamic and complex character.

I will agree with you on that Squall is a dynamic and complex character. I also think i can relate to Squall very well in reality. Anyways, Final Fantasy VIII is in my top five favorite games ever (maybe rank #2, but unsure) and Squall is also one of my favorite characters ever..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

I understand most of those points, except for the "weekend" part. I thought that weekends usually had lower vote totals...

Hmmm...perhaps you're right. Used to be that weekends had slightly higher vote totals, except for Monday. But the average total votes by weekday for SC2K4 is:

Sunday : 80,866.8
Monday : 83,088.7
Tuesday : 85,174.3
Wednesday : 76,295.8
Thursday : 81,880.5
Friday : 83,642.4
Saturday : 78,470.5

With there being 6 of each day so far, except for Fridays (5). So weekdays have gotten higher vote totals than weekends so far. Though it would be very complicated to try and account for individual match popularity, which is the larger factor.
---
Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

People in the last page were briefly speaking of Sora/Ryu H. I think that match is close enough to where we could start debating it...what do you guys think?

Personally, i'm thinking Sora with 53%. He's got the Casual Vote, the Bracket Vote, and the Square Vote; I don't think he'll have any trouble putting Ryu out of his misery come the day vote.

I'm assuming Ryu's gonna get a pretty strong board 8 following, though.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

I like to see an FF8 fan taking my view on the game as the hyperbole that it is. Good show. I don't exactly see how he's dynamic though, but hey, that's your thing.

Half the reason I bash Squall these days is because I know some dumbassed anti-Ulti troll will make some idiotic post defending both him and FF8 to make me laugh afterwards.

No reasons to troll or anything.. No one can ever agree on everything.. This is what makes it interesting is that people having different views and opinions..
Same views = zZzzZzz ...
Different opinions = arguments are fun if left peacefully.. =)

Kudos to you Ulti for having your hatred towards Final Fantasy VIII and kudos to me for thinking the total opposite about Final Fantasy VIII..

---
SC2K4 Winner: Cloud Strife
Next Victim: Squall Leonhart

Here's a link to the Penny Arcade strip, and it did occur after Scorp/Pac Man: http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-08-23

As for Hayabusa/Sora, it depends on how much SFF Sora suffered. I really don't think there was all that much, so I'm still giving it to Hayabusa in a fairly close match.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Yeah, Ryu got out of that match like a little kid trying to crawl out of a dog pile. And Sora wins, my bracket's revived once more. :-) (I'm -4, with 3 matches lost..Yoshi, Vivi, and Tails.)

Yeah, Sora can do it! Ryu failed to walk all over Jill, and Jill =/= Ryu's fanbase.
---
GameFAQs can gain justice from this petition! Please visit it at http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=15656619 (1102 Signs!)

Tai, you said yourself that picking Sora was a mistake.
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ryu 70-30 over HK-47.
---
Summer Contest Match 42 Squall vs. Kirby
Status 39/42 Points: 049 Next: Auron vs. Ness

For Sora to be equal with Jill (and thus Hayabusa), he would have to have suffered 5.34% of SFF versus Aeris. Seems low, actually, but there have been very few matches with over that amount, and I would guess that side char/main char SFF that favors the side char wouldn't be that bad.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Would sora and hk both being rpg characters, take away from HK's performance and add to sora's since HK's less known?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Would sora and hk both being rpg characters, take away from HK's performance and add to sora's since HK's less known?

Not a chance. HK's just that weak. There's no such thing as "Same genre SFF," and HK and Sora are very different characters.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ryu 70-30 over HK-47.

Thats an obvious SFF.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

I don't think he'll have any trouble putting Ryu out of his misery come the day vote.

Yeah, because we saw how weak XBox characters like Hayabusa and Master Chief are during the day...
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Not a chance. HK's just that weak. There's no such thing as "Same genre SFF,"

Even if there were, I doubt it would apply in this case. PC RPGs (which is, essentially, what KOTOR was, despite also making an Xbox appearance) and console RPGs are very different subgenres.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

You're probably right rpguy, the only reason that I suggested it is because matches featuring characters from different genres tend to get a larger vote turnout, than matches between characters from the same genre.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Despite making an Xbox appearence? It came out on Xbox quite a few months before it came out on PC. It also sold incredibly well on xbox.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

It still plays like a PC RPG, it doesn't matter that is was out on XBox. Not to mention that it's made by Bioware and not, say, Square.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

...Does anyone else think it's strange that the major contest stat irregularities seem to revolve around Sephiroth?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Yeah, because we saw how weak XBox characters like Hayabusa and Master Chief are during the day...

Yeah, against Jill Valentine and Frog. Sora is OBVIOUSLY more recognizable then both of them.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

What RPGuy said. It was a PC RPG that happened to come out on a console.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

I'm not saying a Ryu victory is impossible at this point, but it seems unlikely. Sora is clearly the favorite at this point.

---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

...Does anyone else think it's strange that the major contest stat irregularities seem to revolve around Sephiroth?

No. Sephiroth is special, like pants.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

I'm not saying a Ryu victory is impossible at this point, but it seems unlikely. Sora is clearly the favorite at this point.

WTF? Why??? I think completely the opposite.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Yeah, against Jill Valentine and Frog. Sora is OBVIOUSLY more recognizable then both of them.

Sora's more recognizable than the fan favorite from the third most popular game on this site?
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

But it came out on console before PC for christ sake. Calling it a mainly pc game is pretty ignorant.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Sora is obviously more recognizable than a character from the game that went to the Spring Contest finals? I wouldn't be too sure about that. Plus, Jill's obviously got to be pretty recognizable to be the bracket favorite despite being a 14 seed.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

I really wish Squall would slow down a little bit in his gaining, right now he's ahead 8100ish and my prophet challenge entry of 9144 is actually looking reasonable (for like the first time ever!). That would totally rule if I won my first prophet challenge, and tied for my earliest vote number (I was 6th today, which ties with my 6th in MGS vs RE in the Spring) all on the match with my two favorite characters in the contest in it.
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Jill is SOOO unrecognized. WTF is "Resident Evil"?!!? Two movies? Now you are just hallucinating...
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

No, Squall can't slow down! He needs to get 55%!
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

But it came out on console before PC for christ sake.

Irrelevant.

Calling it a mainly pc game is pretty ignorant.

No, you're just confused because you think that calling it a PC RPG means that we're saying it came out for the PC, when the term is really more representative of a gameplay style that is normally associated with PC games. The point is that KOTOR keeps closer company with games like Baldur's Gate and Fallout 2 than with Final Fantasy X.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

No, Squall can't slow down! He needs to get 55%!

Anyone but Kirby (or Vivi) and I'd agree with ya. But it's Kirby! He rules!
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

That would make it classified as a western rpg then. How is it irrelevant that it came out on console before PC and sold better on console than it did on pc? I'm not saying that SFF of any kind existed, I'm saying that it isn't a pc rpg.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

But not as much as Squall.

However, you and I are a rare breed. We love Squall and Kirby above all. Good stuff.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Screw Squall, he's just Cloud with hemorrhoids.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Hemorrhoids (on other people) >>> Spiky hair (on anyone)
---
Summer Contest Match 42Squall vs. Kirby
Status 39/42 Points: 049 Next: Auron vs. Ness

However, you and I are a rare breed. We love Squall and Kirby above all. Good stuff.

That makes three of us I guess then. I thought squall was an easy to relate to character, and that made me like him. And kirby is uh...kirby. How can anyone except aya pe hate kirby?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Squall-Kirby as of 19:57:00- 85910

Tidus-Shadow as of 19:57:25- 85606

Still ahead of the pace.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

That just made me think of something. What do you suppose would happen in a Squall vs Vivi match? I'd see Luigi vs Yoshi part 2, although I'd hope for something closer.
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

I think Squall-Vivi would be relatively close to today's results, give or take a percent. Any SFF would obviously favor Squall, but I wouldn't expect much.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Screw Squall, he's just Cloud with hemorrhoids.

Squall and cloud were nothing alike at all, how can you even make that comparison?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

That would make it classified as a western rpg then.

No, it would classify it as a PC RPG, since that is the term that is used to describe it.

How is it irrelevant that it came out on console before PC and sold better on console than it did on pc? I'm not saying that SFF of any kind existed, I'm saying that it isn't a pc rpg.

Saying it is a PC RPG does not mean that it wasn't on the Xbox and didn't sell well on the Xbox. The term is representative of a gameplay style. Just because Final Fantasy VII came out on the PC doesn't mean I can call it a PC RPG; it's still a console game at heart due to its gameplay mechanics. The gameplay mechanics of KOTOR correspond to the PC RPG genre, regardless of it coming out on a console.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Squall and cloud were nothing alike at all, how can you even make that comparison?

Because they were very much alike, but Squall had brown hair and an even bigger stick up his ass?
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Squall and Cloud did have quite a few similarities, but the former was still better.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Squall and cloud were nothing alike at all, how can you even make that comparison?

Cloud is actually more like Zidane.

***Massive Spoilers***




Some sort of clone/genome thing going on.
---
Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

I've never heard the term pc rpg used before. I always here them being called western or eastern style rpg's. What place exactly refers to KOTOR as a "pc style rpg"?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Eh, I didn't like Cloud, and Squall is similar to Cloud, so I don't like him, either. In fact, I like Squall even less, because his romance subplot made me want to stab myself in the eye.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Because they were very much alike, but Squall had brown hair and an even bigger stick up his ass?

He should've visited the proctologist. =/
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

For starters, cloud seemed a lot more agressive than squall.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

... and a lot more spiky. UGH.
---
Summer Contest Match 42Squall vs. Kirby
Status 39/42 Points: 049 Next: Auron vs. Ness

Well, Squall was purposely reserved. Cloud has his moments when he's the same way, and Squall has his aggressive tendencies as well ("I won't have anyone talking about me in the past tense!").
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Well, Squall was purposely reserved.

The only reason I liked him at first; I act as reserved if not more reserved than he does in real life because I don't trust people. ;>_>

Of course, once the crappy love story got started... =/
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I've never heard the term pc rpg used before. I always here them being called western or eastern style rpg's. What place exactly refers to KOTOR as a "pc style rpg"?

I'm in the opposite situation. I've never heard the term "western style RPG" before that I can recall, but PC RPG is a common term that essentially separates the likes of KOTOR, Baldur's Gate II, and even Fable from the likes of Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts, and Xenosaga, which are called console RPGs. It's all about where the style originated from, I suppose. Damned if I know where the term came from.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

For starters, cloud seemed a lot more agressive than squall.

Squall wasn't as agressive because it hurt too much to move, what with the giant tree branch in his rectum and all.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

I've heard both, but it seems as though "Western-style RPG" almost always indicates a PC-style RPG and "Eastern-stye RPG" almost always indicates a console-style RPG.
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Squall wasn't as agressive because it hurt too much to move, what with the giant tree branch in his rectum and all.

Maybe I should change my sig....
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

The only reason I liked him at first; I act as reserved if not more reserved than he does in real life because I don't trust people. ;>_>

I liked him for pretty much the same reason, and the love story did get very lame at times, but I still liked him on a whole as a character. Probably since all my hate for the love story is generated towards rinoah.
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

I liked him for pretty much the same reason, and the love story did get very lame at times, but I still liked him on a whole as a character. Probably since all my hate for the love story is generated towards rinoah.

At least Rinoa was consistent. Squall was the one that did a complete 180.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

I'm in the opposite situation. I've never heard the term "western style RPG" before that I can recall, but PC RPG is a common term that essentially separates the likes of KOTOR, Baldur's Gate II, and even Fable from the likes of Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts, and Xenosaga, which are called console RPGs. It's all about where the style originated from, I suppose. Damned if I know where the term came from.


Alrgiht I guess it was just a misunderstanding after all then. I thought originally that you were saying that KOTOR was bigger on pc by far than it was on console. I just wish their were simple terms that all of us had all heard of to sperate these sub genres of rpg's.
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

At least Rinoa was consistent. Squall was the one that did a complete 180.

Still Rinoa was possibly the most annoying video game character I had seen up to that point, and very well may still hjold the crown. Throughout the first half of the game I really felt sorry for squall, for having to put up with someone so damned annoying.
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

hold*

*hates his keyboard with unimaginably small keys*
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

At least Rinoa was consistent. Squall was the one that did a complete 180.

That reminds me of why I hate the storyline of FF VIII.
It's like a bunch of unrelated short stories forced to fit together.
The flow is non-existant.

But I just don't get why you hate Cloud so much.
Every "change" in his character has a reason behind it.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Still Rinoa was possibly the most annoying video game character I had seen up to that point

Aeris.

and very well may still hjold the crown.

Aeris.

Throughout the first half of the game I really felt sorry for squall, for having to put up with someone so damned annoying.

Aeris.

I think you can guess why I'm fond of Sephiroth...he made my gameplay experience much more enjoyable.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Is it cause he had long hair? Nono, a big sword? Well it obviously wasn't because of him killing anyone...
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I'll just state one fact before watching the Chiefs head down and take care of the Broncos:

Cloud > Squall.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

This topic is really making me want to play FFVIII again. Perhaps I need a second go-through to see if it really deserves to be my favorite game ever and Squall really deserves to be on my favorite character list.
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Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Cloud > Squall.

OMG flawless logic !1!!22#1!one!1##!@1shift!alt!@45@!!
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

OMG flawless logic !1!!22#1!one!1##!@1shift!alt!@45@!!

Of course. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Cloud is better.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Well at least you didn't have to put up with aeris as long as you did with rinoa. Of course I say this because FF8 is a much longer game than FF7 and no other reasons...
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Of course. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Cloud is better.

Why is that exactly? Cloud is quite possibly the most one dimensional FF character out their (yes even more so than red mage from ff1).
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Squall and cloud were nothing alike at all, how can you even make that comparison?

Because they were very much alike, but Squall had brown hair and an even bigger stick up his ass?

So you're saying that Sephy was compensating more than Seifer? *cough*

And Squall and Cloud are similar characters, but they do have their differences. Cloud seemed more open with Tifa, and eventually with the other members of the team as he got to know them. It was only Rinoa's tainted existence that made Squall come out of his shell.
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Will the White Wolf get his we... er, revenge this week? It's Luca Blight versus Riou Genkaku at www.rpgdl.com!

Even if people don't like Cloud, one-dimensionality is NOT a good reason. At least smitelf gives good reasons. And smite, feeling better?
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

But I just don't get why you hate Cloud so much.
Every "change" in his character has a reason behind it.

Bah, I forgot to put

***POSSIBLE FINAL FANTASY VII SPOILERS***
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I don't hate Cloud. I dislike him, but it's more of a neutral dislike than an outright hatred such as I have for some other characters (*cough*AERIS*cough*). It just seems like I hate him because I end up crossing swords with everyone here who likes him.

As for his character development, most of it involved him curling up into a metaphorical ball while Sephiroth messed with his head, until Tifa of all people finally helped set him straight. I don't have much respect for that kind of development. Hell, if I didn't like or even respect him to begin with, why would I care how he developed?

That's the problem I had with most of the characters from that game. I didn't hate most of them, no, but I tended to oscillate between neutrality and annoyance in my opinion toward them, and rarely did I feel any real attachment. Cloud was one of the worst. Cloud wasn't a protagonist I could like; if I wanted to see people tortured by their own (mostly fabricated) inner demons, I'd go visit my old high school.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

Why is that exactly? Cloud is quite possibly the most one dimensional FF character out their (yes even more so than red mage from ff1).

Sarcasm or not, you kill everything by comparing the Red Mage from FF1 to Cloud.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

This topic is really making me want to play FFVIII again. Perhaps I need a second go-through to see if it really deserves to be my favorite game ever and Squall really deserves to be on my favorite character list.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FF VIII, where else can you abuse status effects to your heart's content?

And while the junction system made every char essentially identical save for their limit breaks, it was a unique experience.

I just hate the fact the storyline doesn't flow at all, and the fact that the enemies level up with your team.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

How did I kill my argument saying something sarcastic? Furthermore what makes you think that I was being sarcastic :P?
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Sarcasm or not, you kill everything by comparing the Red Mage from FF1 to Cloud.

Dude, the Red Mage was awesome. He could cast white and black magic! That means he was tormented by the duality of his good and evil sides! And he thought everything was about DnD, oh wait, that's 8BT...

Anyway, I never used Red Mages.
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

And Squall and Cloud are similar characters, but they do have their differences. Cloud seemed more open with Tifa, and eventually with the other members of the team as he got to know them. It was only Rinoa's tainted existence that made Squall come out of his shell.

As I said, Squall had a bigger stick up his ass. The fact that Square decides to yank it out in one swift motion with little lubrication (i.e. actual development) just makes me dislike Squall even more.

And smite, feeling better?

Yes, thank you.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 48/50, Next Winner: Squall

the fact that the enemies level up with your team.

Why does that bother people? Don't get me wrong, I hate FFVIII as much as the next guy, but in a game filled with much bigger flaws, why does that always come up? I actually kinda liked how that was done in Lunar/2, it made the game harder.
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Furthermore what makes you think that I was being sarcastic :P?

Because I have this little ounce of faith you'd know better. =p
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Final fantasy games are easy enough as it is. Can you imagine how much easier ff8 would of been if the enemies didn't level up with you? If you're going to mock its battle system than complain about a real problem, like not being able to skip the summon sequences. Now that was annoying!
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

That was more sarcasm HM... Lighten up a bit, it'll do you good.
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Why does that bother people? Don't get me wrong, I hate FFVIII as much as the next guy, but in a game filled with much bigger flaws, why does that always come up? I actually kinda liked how that was done in Lunar/2, it made the game harder.

I don't mind if the bosses level up with my team, but generally speaking it's the other way around in FF VIII.

In most RPGs, the normal enemies gets easier as you progress in the game.
It gives a sense of "I'm going the right way".
But in FF VIII, the normal enemies are actually getting harder the higher my team's level gets.
Forcing me to find ways to avoid experience.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Sidharta, you shouldn't have found anything in FFVIII to be hard anyway. The junction system is so broken it makes my head hurt.
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

And MM jumps into the fray....

Cloud > Squall

I like Squall and all, but the way his character FLIPPED? That has to go. "I want to hear her voice..." waaaah. The transition was terribly done. And as much as Square advertised FFVIII as a story about love, they could have done a much better job. I actually like both characters about the same, but I like FFVII better than FFVIII so that gives Cloud my edge.

BUT

Leon > Bat-Cloud

Squall has a much better role in Kingdom Hearts than Cloud. One of my friend likes him better because he's voiced by her beloved Angel. Squall's character was done MUCH better in his KH cameo. Plus I liked fighting him better as well. The one hand in pocket thing was pretty cool. And you've got to love the way he yells "IT'S OVER!" before he brings the gunblade down on Sora's head....
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"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Can you imagine how much easier ff8 would of been if the enemies didn't level up with you? If you're going to mock its battle system than complain about a real problem, like not being able to skip the summon sequences. Now that was annoying!

They can always fix the enemy's level like they did in FF VII and FF IX.
Hell I won't mind if they give all disk 4 exclusive enemies level 100 stat.
I like my chars to get stronger as they level, in FF VIII, it's essentially the other way around.

Speaking of summons, I rarely ever use them once I have decent magics to junction.

Sidharta, you shouldn't have found anything in FFVIII to be hard anyway. The junction system is so broken it makes my head hurt.

Don't get me wrong, the enemies are easy enough even if they're level 100 (ICTH/H anyone?).
I just don't like the fact that my chars actually get weaker (relatively speaking) as they level up.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I like Squall and all, but the way his character FLIPPED? That has to go. "I want to hear her voice..." waaaah. The transition was terribly done.

I could go on a long rant as to why this was still within Squall's character, but I'm too tired right now.

I'll just state one fact before watching the Chiefs head down and take care of the Broncos:

Cloud > Squall.

Yeah, I don't think either one of those are workin' out for you.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Squall-Kirby as of 21:02:23- 88837

Tidus-Shadow as of 21:02:25- 88846

As you can tell, it's about even right now. The pace has slowed down, but this match ought to end up as the 2nd most popular at least.
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Just out of curiosity, how many votes did the poll with the highest turnout this contest get?
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1727
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Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
(5) Kirby's status: Rudely awakened

Thanks.
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"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

My feeling are well-known about both games.

I don't hate any of the characters in FFVII outside of Barrett, Cait-Sith, and a lot of Shinra. The characters I thought were well done as was the story for the first half. Then the story slowly slipped into ridiculousness and I couldn't take any of the characters completely serious after that. I still think the game was fun and the story was pretty good.

I hate almost all the characters in FFVIII and the story. Squall is completely unlikeable and cliche and goes through a complete metamorphisis late in the game with no development. Rinoa annoys me. Zell annoys me. Selphie ANNOYS me. Irvine annoys me. Quitis is really the only character I could handle, and even she has huge moments of stupidity. Like liking Squall. The story is full of landmine type plotholes and changes focus way too many times to keep track. A bad game character/story wise and gameplay wise

Btw, everyone who predicted this match to hit the 90k mark pwned me.

I couldn't imagine it would go much beyond 85k.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Ah, well, there goes my chance at winning the prophet challenge. There's always a next time. I will win one eventually.
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Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

I think you can guess why I'm fond of Sephiroth...he made my gameplay experience much more enjoyable.

haha


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Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

The match is above 90k, and has been for some time (nearing 91k). Squall's only .1% away from 55%, too.
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Of course. It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Cloud is better.

You know, HM, I've never seen you make a well-reasoned character about why a character is good, ever? It just seems like you're absolutely incapable of objectivity.

As for FFVIII's enemies leveling up with you, I actually enjoyed that. Being able to level exactly as much as you wanted to was a very nice touch, and it was also nice that collecting items didn't mean you would be overleveled.

than complain about a real problem, like not being able to skip the summon sequences. Now that was annoying!

Summons are useless in FFVIII anyway. In my firstplay, the only one I ever used was Doomtrain, and that was just so that I didn't have to get more Meltdown spells.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b43.jpg

Not that good at all.
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Lonely Angel
Summer 2004 Contest Prediction: Match 42: Squall Leonhart wins 54.18%-45.82

"but Squall will be 2nd in the favorite main character poll"

You're taking that information from the poll that had Cecil ahead of everyone but Cloud and Squall, right? I'd love to Cecil kickin' some ass in this contest and going toe to toe agaisnt the likes of Sonic and Snake... because that's what he'd be doing if he were that much more popular than Tidus, but I have a feeling there were a lot of extenuating circumstances related to that poll. So many factors you can't account for when you simply lump a ton of characters from one game in together.
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True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

WTF? Why??? I think completely the opposite.

Time to show why Sora's the favorite:

The Bracket Vote Factor:

29
Sora
HK-47
75.4%

30
Ryu Hayabusa
Jill Valentine
48.56%

Forget the fact that Jill's stronger than HK-47, thats still sheer number of brackets on Sora's side.

Sora wins the bracket vote. A LOT less people have Ryu going into round 2, and thus people will bracket vote Sora because 1: They have him winning or 2: They want to prevent a further loss of points.

SFF from Last Year:

Look at Aeris performance against Sora. She killed him, and I think he got...what, 30 percent of the vote? Considering Aeris is one of the most popular Square characters in the most popular Square series, and the fact that she murdered Master Chief and did well against Sonic, i'm pretty impressed. There is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS SFF match between them (Sora and Aeris), and Sora was very underrated in 2003.

The Casual Vote Factor:

Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user (or someone who doesn't even own a Message Board account, that strolls to the site every once in a while looking for FAQs) than Sora is asinine. There is NO WAY that Ryu is that recognizable to the common person. If you randomly went up to someone at a school and asked them if they knew either characters, chances are it'd be Sora.

The Day Vote

Ryu built a steady lead on Jill Valentine through the night time. I contribute this to the massive board 8 support Ryu has, and the fact that the casual person hadn't visited the site yet. However, Jill made her climb through the day and early night time, up till near midnight PST. I imagine that pattern to hold true in the next match, where Sora will definitely gain from the casual vote advantage. This is where his recognition will come in handy, and Ryu's strong support will diminish.

Square Fan Support:

This site has always been dominated by Square fans, thats not something thats up for debate. Just being from a popular and critically acclaimed Squaresoft game gives Sora an advantage here.

Intangibles

This is the one area where i'll give Ryu the advantage. Not only does he CLEARLY have a strong support from Board 8 and other GameFAQs MSG Board Regulars, but Sora doesn't seem to have much of a following at all. Many flocked to HK-47 and gave him their vote, creating a much smaller gap between the two until the day vote kicked in.

The picture will probably favor Ryu, too. I haven't seen a close up shot that doesn't make Sora look goofy, but if its big and decent, people should be able to recognize him pretty easily. Unless the Keyblade is in the photo somehow, I think Ryu's bad*** Ninja looks will swing some votes from the undecided population of voters.

Advantage: Sora

Dub T's Prediction: Sora with 53.79% of the vote.
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Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

Sorry I was late on the response, smitelf, I hope you like my analysis on the match. =P
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Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

"what with the giant tree branch in his rectum and all."

Does Seifer really sport a wang that big?
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True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

The Bracket Vote Factor:

Bracket votes are a complete non factor, and I would guess many people with Jill beating Hayabusa had her beat Sora too.

SFF from Last Year:

Sora would have to have suffered nearly 6% due to SFF to bring him to the level of Jill. I don't think that happened, and Sora's showing on HK pretty much proved it.

The Casual Vote Factor:

Hayabusa started his comeback at roughly 9AM. You know, when the casual day vote starts coming in? Jill was the one who benefited from the more hardcore night and early votes.

Ryu built a steady lead on Jill Valentine through the night time.

Did you see the same match as I did? Hayabusa came back during the day, and Jill nearly tied it at night. Jill also lead early.

Square Fan Support:

That's why Kefka beat Knux...oh wait. Square does not a winner make. Sora's Disney, anyway.

With all this "casual vote" and "nobody knows who Hayabusa is" crap, this sounds exactly like an arguement for Jak over Ness.
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

Ryu built a steady lead on Jill Valentine through the night time. I contribute this to the massive board 8 support Ryu has, and the fact that the casual person hadn't visited the site yet. However, Jill made her climb through the day and early night time, up till near midnight PS

http://www.sc2k4.com/update.php?pollid=1747

I hope you just have a really bad memory...
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

The Bracket Vote Factor:

Bracket votes are a complete non factor, and I would guess many people with Jill beating Hayabusa had her beat Sora too.

I apologize in advance for being rude, but if you think bracket votes are a non factor, you are not logical at all. Why do you think Liquid Snake did so well against Frog? Bracket Votes! Same goes for Master Chief.

SFF from Last Year:

Sora would have to have suffered nearly 6% due to SFF to bring him to the level of Jill. I don't think that happened, and Sora's showing on HK pretty much proved it.

You think it impossible he got that much SFF from Aeris? Come on! Its Aeris we're talking about, a very popular character from the most popular series.

The Casual Vote Factor:

Hayabusa started his comeback at roughly 9AM. You know, when the casual day vote starts coming in? Jill was the one who benefited from the more hardcore night and early votes.

I suppose I was mistaken, but do you REALLY think Ryu can overtake a casual advantage against Sora?

Square Fan Support:

That's why Kefka beat Knux...oh wait. Square does not a winner make. Sora's Disney, anyway.

Sora is not Disney, Sora is Square.

With all this "casual vote" and "nobody knows who Hayabusa is" crap, this sounds exactly like an arguement for Jak over Ness.

It is, except Jak isn't well known. Sora is not Jak, Sora has one of of the top selling games for the Playstation 2 which happens to be a game by Squaresoft.

Kefka's different because he's not NEARLY as recognizable as any other Square character in this contest.

You're making a comparison...a similar example would be the use of Sheik, from Zelda.

People may guarantee Sheik to win because he/she is Nintendo, but it wouldn't work because he/she has no namesake. Kefka HAS NO NAMESAKE. Besides, he was against one of the most liked characters from Sonic.
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Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

I hope you just have a really bad memory...

I wasn't there for all 24 hours of the match. I went by what I saw and what I was told. Oops. The fact remains that Ryu, even though he got the day vote from Jill, will not be able to get it as easily from Sora.
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Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

Let's face it, some people think ff8 is a fun game and it certainly isn't the biggest let down of the series but as far as characters go, Squall is the only thing it has going for it, which isn't saying much. Maybe the characters in ff7 aren't much better by some people's opinions but there are at least a handful of them that are more memorable than most other FF characters.
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Mario Sunshine-120 Shines || BtT 3:43.55 || HRC 37,179.9 ||

"Cloud is quite possibly the most one dimensional FF character out their"

You make me wonder if you have depth of thought. There is enough about Cloud to write a book. Just beacuse you're too detached from humanity to realize the subtleties of a character doesn't mean that they are one dimensional, it means you need to talk to more real life people.

"And Squall and Cloud are similar characters,"

Not really. They both start off acting like they are detached from any concerns of those around them but really only Squall is. It doesn't take much at all to make Cloud want to get involved, it takes well over 2 and a half discs before Squall even acts interested in what's going on or the fact that more than a woman is practically creaming her panties over him.

"I don't have much respect for that kind of development."

But thank god you're brain is dveloped enough to realize it is development, even if it's not to your liking.

"I just hate the fact the storyline doesn't flow at all, and the fact that the enemies level up with your team."

That'd be most people's main gripes about the game.

"Why does that bother people?"

Because one of the things people like about RPGs is the time spent leveling up. Sure, it's not everybodies favorite thing, but before I actually allowed myself to like FF7 for its characters and story I still enjoyed leveling up in that game. FF8 doesn't give me the satisfaction, and if you don't know that before you play then you make it so much harder on yourself and you don't know why.

"I actually kinda liked how that was done in Lunar/2,"

FF8 was a bit more extreme about it, though. Fact of the matter is certain bosses are nearly impossible in FF8 of yo overlevel, in Lunar they end up being just as hard no matter what.

"Can you imagine how much easier ff8 would of been if the enemies didn't level up with you?'

Umm, they could just set a power level and run with it. People who spend extra time leveling would then be... oh my god, the horror... rewarded for their efforts!

"thats still sheer number of brackets on Sora's side."

Which as we know stopped Knuks and Ryu H in round one and Frog in... two rounds?! So the bracketmakers may be grossly overestimating Sora, it has nothing to do with who will actually win.

"and Sora was very underrated in 2003"

Yes, but mathmatically it almost couldn't have been enough to put Sora over Jill in 2k3, and that's not even Jill at her best.

"Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user than Sora is asinine."

And likewise...

Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user than Jill is asinine.
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True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Er... Jill is probably MORE recognizable than Sora...
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Your whole argument is invalidated when you said that Ryu won the night vote and Jill won the day vote. Did you even WATCH what happened in that match? Did you see what happened with Frog/Master Chief??? Sora went against HK-47!!!! He should have had at least an 80% prediction. I'm sure Jill was favored to go to the next round more than Sora was!
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"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

ChichiriMuyo is a very angry person. I wonder if he's even capable of having an intelligent argument without attacking and bashing the person he's debating with.

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I am Lucid Faia.

I apologize in advance for being rude, but if you think bracket votes are a non factor, you are not logical at all. Why do you think Liquid Snake did so well against Frog? Bracket Votes! Same goes for Master Chief.

First of all, don't worry about sounding rude. We are arguing, after all. Second of all, if bracket votes truly mattered in close matches, Liquid and MC would have beat Frog. SC would have beat Halo, KH, and WW, too. I could go on, but you get my point, I hope.

You think it impossible he got that much SFF from Aeris? Come on! Its Aeris we're talking about, a very popular character from the most popular series.

6% is an awful lot of SFF. Do you really think Sora's capable of getting 40% on Aeris and 36% on Sonic? I don't.

I suppose I was mistaken, but do you REALLY think Ryu can overtake a casual advantage against Sora?

If he can do it against Jill Valentine, he can do it against Sora.

Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user than Jill is asinine.

Then how the hell did he come back during the day, when the casuals come and vote?
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Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

"With all this "casual vote" and "nobody knows who Hayabusa is" crap, this sounds exactly like an arguement for Jak over Ness."

Yeha, and we can't even count on one hand the number of people I pwned on that one.

"I apologize in advance for being rude, but if you think bracket votes are a non factor, you are not logical at all."

Non-factor = negligable results. Sure, it makes some minute difference, but not enough to swing it in anything other than the closest of matches... you'd have to assume you're right about the SFF first and I think you're not.

"You think it impossible he got that much SFF from Aeris?"

Yes, it pretty much is. Kefka only lost 6% to Crono and the gap between the two is massive. The gap between Aeris and Sora isn't that large so it is only reasonable to say that Sora wasn't hit that hard.

"but do you REALLY think Ryu can overtake a casual advantage against Sora?"

Yes.

"Sora is not Disney, Sora is Square."

Officially he is Disney, why else would he make the contest with 10 Squares already in?

"It is, except Jak isn't well known."

Yeah he is, he just isn't well liked.

"Sora has one of of the top selling games for the Playstation 2"

Funny, so does Jak. Oh, and so you know, all three games in the Driver series have individually outsold Kingdom Hearts, last I checked. Look at how much sales figures helped Tanner.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user than Jill is asinine.

Then how the hell did he come back during the day, when the casuals come and vote?

Sorry, Chich, didn't read your whole post, as I thought it was the tail end of [TWB]'s. You already made my point.

Argh, I need sleep.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

"ChichiriMuyo is a very angry person."

You're a joke. You're barely above Smurf and Tai, and that's only because you're comments aren't ALL idiotic.

"attacking and bashing the person he's debating with."

Mind pointing out an example from any post previous to yours?
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

You're a joke. You're barely above Smurf and Tai, and that's only because you're comments aren't ALL idiotic

XD

Thank you for proving my point.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

You make me wonder if you have depth of thought. There is enough about Cloud to write a book. Just beacuse you're too detached from humanity to realize the subtleties of a character doesn't mean that they are one dimensional, it means you need to talk to more real life people.

And I think you need to calm the hell down about one comment that I made. You call me detached from humanity when you're entirely incapable of detecting hyperbole's and bits of sarcasm, then you go on to tell me that you somehow presume to know anything about my social life, or who I am outside of gamefaqs.
Secondly what exactly was so deep about cloud? As far as I could tell the only time he really changed, was around the time you leave midgar when he became more open with the other party members. He then at that point pretty much stayed the same for the rest of the game (as far as I played anyways).
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Oh, and guys, because the **** is probably about to hit the fan, Imma gonna warn you all to run for cover. As is obvious to all, I didn't make a comment to Lucid Faia at all, and he's obviously trying to get my goat, as it were. Whatever happens, I stand justified in all my actions as I am merely defending myself.

Godspeed to my friends who wish to stay uninvolved.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"Thank you for proving my point."

Wow, I proved the point held by a hypocrite! Dear god, save us all, I attacked someone who is trying to get me riled up!
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Second of all, if bracket votes truly mattered in close matches, Liquid and MC would have beat Frog.

The simplest explanation for this would be that the bracket votes were what made the two Frog matches as close as they were. It may not be correct, but it is a possibility, right?

Then how the hell did he come back during the day, when the casuals come and vote?

Possibly anti-votes for Jill, possibly the pic vote (who knows how the minds of the average person works?), possibly magical ninja elves. Who knows?
---
It's the battle of the "Bow"-men at www.rpgdl.com, as Bowman Jean faces the Hunting Clan's champion, Bo!

Possibly anti-votes for Jill, possibly the pic vote (who knows how the minds of the average person works?), possibly magical ninja elves. Who knows?

Or you could throw away all that complete garbage (Jill anti votes? Pic votes for that horrible Hayabusa pic? Don't make me laugh), and admit that Ryu is popular with the casual voters.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

I'm actually not trying to get you riled up; you're not that special. I just read a post of yours and decided to comment on it. That's about it.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

"and admit that Ryu is popular with the casual voters."

No no no, that's clearly impossible because some random GameFAQs user assumes that Jill is more popular with the casuals without any solid evidence. Just plain impossible. Sure, Ryu H won the day vote massively, but that's jus tmere coincidence... the casuals changed their entire votin cycle for one day to throw us off!
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

No no no, that's clearly impossible because some random GameFAQs user assumes that Jill is more popular with the casuals without any solid evidence. Just plain impossible. Sure, Ryu H won the day vote massively, but that's jus tmere coincidence... the casuals changed their entire votin cycle for one day to throw us off!

I should have known. Wise Tonberry; DomaDragoon, I apologize. I have been pwned by your relentless logic, kindly demonstrated by Chichiri.
---
Current Pick: Squally; Current Vote: Kirby; Points: 47/50
Falcom Paunch!

I just have one question chi. What exactly made you feel inclined to attack me, about a small slightly sarcastic post I made a few hours ago?
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"I'm actually not trying to get you riled up"

Don't worry, I'm not marking you for trolling even though you are, so you don't have to deny it.

"I just read a post of yours and decided to comment on it."

You can read my posts all you want, if you make comments that you know will be poorly recieved when you're not even part of the conversation to begin with it's considered trolling. You had no interest whatsoever in the conversation, which is obvious because you couldn't find a single intelligent thing to post in the entire topic... or even the last few, it would seem... yet you come out of the blue to make a comment about me? Nope, no trolling there... right. You're trying to get me agitated, and if that's what you want that's what you get.

You're a troll, so let's play your little troll games.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

The Ness/Auron match pic is up.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/shared/sum04b43.jpg

Not a very good one, in my opinion. CJayC really sucks with finding Ness artwork. This is simply a close-up of his first pic. And I don't really like the look of Auron here.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

"What exactly made you feel inclined to attack me, about a small slightly sarcastic post I made a few hours ago?"

You made the asinine comment about Cloud being one dimentional which is clearly false. You can dislike whatever the hell you want, but at least use intillegent reasoning for it instead of making blatantly false comments.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"kindly demonstrated by Chichiri."

You're welcome. :)
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Hy - per - bol - e

In the dictionary. Look it up, now. Check it for sarcasm while you're at it to. I still don't see why me making a comment about a video game character made you feel inclined to resort to name calling and personal attacks.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

CM, you make me laugh. I made that comment because I went through an entire page and couldn't find a post of yours where you argued with someone without insulting them personally, and you're continuing to do the same thing. You're not Ulti; no one goes out of their way just to annoy you. Sorry.

In any case, I'm off to play Super Metroid.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

I was just operating under the impression that we were in agreement that Jill was better-known than Ryu. Of course, being well-known doesn't translate to being well-liked. So, no hard feelings, I guess.
---
It's the battle of the "Bow"-men at www.rpgdl.com, as Bowman Jean faces the Hunting Clan's champion, Bo!

"I still don't see why me making a comment about a video game character made you feel inclined to resort to name calling and personal attacks."

Because your post lacked any reasoning or intelligence whatsoever. I could have sworn that I implied that in my last reply to you.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

You're basically saying that the mass of 33,000 brackets, of which 75% sent Sora to round 2 (as opposed to 48% of Ryu) which in most cases manipulate a person's vote, do not have a factor on the outcome of the match?

33 thousand votes is over a fourth of the average total.

And note: I never said Bracket Votes were the deciding factor in matches (note Ryu/Jill, Frog/Liquid, and Frog/MC) they do have a big effect on the match's outcome.

The only problem with comparing Ryu and Frog is that...well, Frog is more recognizable than Ryu is.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

"CM, you make me laugh."

Not as much as you make me laugh, no doubt.

"You're not Ulti; no one goes out of their way just to annoy you."

You should ask Ulti about that. Out of all the people that frequent tihs topic he and I have probably the most in common. Random people for no reason make comments on things that have nothing to do with them in an attempt to knock either one of us down. You can pretend you aren't a troll, but when you have had nothing to do with the topic for days and then suddenly you come in talking crap to another user you're a troll. And yes, people do go out of their way to annoy me. I've had people from last summer's contest report me on MBH help before when they hadn't even posted on this board in months. I'm just that special.

"I was just operating under the impression that we were in agreement that Jill was better-known than Ryu."

Obviously being better known doesn't mean the casuals liek you better, which is why saying Sora is more well known than Hayabusa doesn't grant him any sort of benefit in that match.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

You made the asinine comment about Cloud being one dimentional which is clearly false. You can dislike whatever the hell you want, but at least use intillegent reasoning for it instead of making blatantly false comments.

fact: Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof

Your opinion, Chichiri, /==/ fact.

Big Daddy Webster just PWNED j00...and how ironic: he did it with facts!
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

We can all infer, from my last post, that Lucid needs no reason to believe Cloud is one dimensional. Its his opinion, it doesn't need to be backed up by logical reasoning.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

Because your post lacked any reasoning or intelligence whatsoever

So you go on to say that I don't talk to enough people in real life. Seriously what the hell was that about? Have you looked up those words, in a dictionary yet? Failed to see the overexxageration in the post yet? No? Then I'm done trying to be civil with you. kthxbai
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

My apologies, not Lucid i'm talking about, but dragoon.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

"You're basically saying that the mass of 33,000 brackets, of which 75% sent Sora to round 2 (as opposed to 48% of Ryu) which in most cases manipulate a person's vote, do not have a factor on the outcome of the match?"

They have very, very little sway. Typically though most brackets aren't favorites brackets most people still pick their favorites to win in a lot of matches. Why would so many people pick Sephiroth to win it all when it goes against all the logic we;ve worked with so far? Because he's that damn close, despite having what should be an impossible obstacle in his way, and he's their favorite.

And even when they don't pick their favorite that doesn't mean they will vote in favor of their bracket. Ertyu had Kirby meeting Squall in round 2 because he was intelligent enough to know it was inevitable, that didn't stop him from voting against Kirby, it didn't even make him think twice. he'd have been ecstatic to see Kirby lose to Kain, even if it cost ihm the entire tournament. Some people will vote their heart over their bracket.

Again, bracket votes are minimal at best, and even in the closest matches characters have proven themselves to be capable of beating the bracket voters. Frog did it twice and Ryu already did it once. Three increadibly close matches with the underdog winning? Bracket votes cannot be that effective, then.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

ChichiriMuyo, I thought Lucid was half joking when he made that comment. I don't think he's was trying to troll. I think he made that comment out of jest after seeing you question the guy's depth of thought and telling him he was detached from humanity.... <_<

Wise Tonberry, I don't agree with your argument at all. It's a general consensus that Jill is stronger than Sora. Ryu beat Jill. He should beat Sora. Too many of your arguments are weak. Just because Sora is a Square character doesn't make him a powerhouse. Remember, the Square characters in this contest are all from FFs or Chrono Trigger. You can't compare Sora to them. Even FF can only go so far... look at Kefka. Need more proof? What about Ramza? He's from a popular Squaresoft game with a FF name to boot! How did he fair? Getting beaten by Kirby... who has been beaten by Jill....

Second, you say Aeris is such a powerhouse right? Then why are you arguing SFF? The people that voted for Aeris would like her more than Sora regardless! And remember, this is a character contest. People may like Kingdom Hearts, but a kid with a key may not be as appealing. A lot of people like Kingdom Hearts for all of the OTHER Square and Disney characters, not Sora. Sora is decent, but I don't see him having any fans to himself. Kingdom Hearts has too many likeable characters for that. If Sora had a fanbase, he should have blown out HK-47.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

"well, Frog is more recognizable than Ryu is."

I highly doubt the casuals would uphold that opinion.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"Your opinion, Chichiri, /==/ fact."

Yeah, you're right. And while you've got the dictionary open try looking for character development. I'd bet any amount of money that Cloud qulifies, meaning he isn't a one dimensional character. You know what that means? My statement wasn't a matter of opinion, it was a matter of fact.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Cloud does have character development it just isn't good.
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

"Its his opinion, it doesn't need to be backed up by logical reasoning."

Right, because saying a character doing anything fitting the definition of character development could only be considered an undeveloped character if you lack logic. Thanks for backing me up, pal.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Yeah, you're right. And while you've got the dictionary open try looking for character development. I'd bet any amount of money that Cloud qulifies, meaning he isn't a one dimensional character. You know what that means? My statement wasn't a matter of opinion, it was a matter of fact.

It doesn't matter. There is no factual way to say that Cloud "has good character development."

Thats like me saying "Marilyn Manson has a great personality." Do many believe it? No, in fact i'm sure most people don't.

Thats not the point. The point is that I cannot prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that Marily Manson has a great personality. And you can't about Cloud Strife, either.

Look it up yourself.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

I'd beg to differ about bracket voting. Ryu/Jill was a very close match, you'd expect about 50% for each.

Sora/HK was an obvious match, you'd expect 75% for that match.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from, and that the numbers are rounded, etc. You are a smart person, I wont elaborate more on that part.



However, you cannot base the next round on these numbers. The fact that more people think that Sora will get to round 1 has nothing to do with how many believe she will win again. In fact, I'm willing to bet that more people have Ryu and Jill than have Sora coming out of this 4-pack. Nothing unexpected happened in the first round, both Ryu and Sora had strong percentages coming out of the round, based on their opponent.



For example, say Link faces Sephiroth in the first round. 50% pick Link

And Chief faces Gordon. 95% pick Chief



So by your logic, more brackets have Chief than Link? And the bracket vote favors Chief? Don't think so buddy. I'd bet that then 49% would have Link, and 1% Chief!



Bracket vote =/= Sora. I predict..

30 Ryu
30 Jill
25 Sora
5 HK

as approximate numbers, from this 4-pack.
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

Secondly what exactly was so deep about cloud? As far as I could tell the only time he really changed, was around the time you leave midgar when he became more open with the other party members. He then at that point pretty much stayed the same for the rest of the game (as far as I played anyways).

Their was my reasoning after you flamed me for my comment. Afterwards you ignored it and continued to claim that I gave no reasoning at all.

And while you've got the dictionary open try looking for character development.

I was telling you to crack open a dictionary because you weren't responding to me when I pointed out the obvious and told you that I was ovverexagerating.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Using a hyperbole... being slightly sarcastic.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

However, you cannot base the next round on these numbers. The fact that more people think that Sora will get to round 1 has nothing to do with how many believe she will win again. In fact, I'm willing to bet that more people have Ryu and Jill than have Sora coming out of this 4-pack. Nothing unexpected happened in the first round, both Ryu and Sora had strong percentages coming out of the round, based on their opponent.

You don't get what i'm saying.

Look at Ryu's numbers, the ones that have him going to round 2. See how low they are? If they're that low for just round 1, think how much lower they'd be for round 2. People wont want Ryu to screw them up for another round.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

"Seriously what the hell was that about?"

You appear incapable of telling the difference between characters with and without depth. I used a couple techniques you may have hear dof before, sarcasm and hyperbole. See, you're no doubt what many people would call a nerd, much like myself and anyone else who would post on an internet forum about videogames, and "nerds" are well known for their lack of social skills and having lack of contact with others. I used a literary skill called hyperbole, which means to exaggerate (greatly), to accentuate this feature of nerdness. Because you seem to have a hard time deciphering character traits it made for a very obvious opening to use such an exstravagant hyperbole.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

With all that said, i'm going to bed. See you guys tomorrow.
---
Dub T's Sc2k4 bracket : 47 of 50
Next Match: Squall Leonhart vs. Kirby

You seem to be under the impression that Webster is god and decides all facts. Qualifying him under defined character development seems to have somewhat contravercial effects. It's hard to consider many things true fact. Mark Twain once said, "There are three kinds of lies, small lies, big lies, and statistics." Most of the statistics you read are by definition correct but misleading. The very definition of the word correct is questioned as in the controversies with Michael Moore's film.
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

The difference is you called me detached from humanity. That wasn't a hyperbole, that was you being an angry asshat, and it's quite obvious to tell as you seemed qwuite riled. I on the other hand made a small comment that I thought had pretty damned obvious hints of sarcasm and the like in them.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Wild failed to see my point that just because few had Ryu out of the first round, doesn't negate the possibility that fewer will have Sora out of this match in the second round than Ryu will..

Prediction percentages are based on ones opponent. Jill >>>> HK-47.
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

I'm not denying being a "nerd" or whatever else chi, I'm saying that I'm not entirely detached from humanity. Something you seem to disagree with despite being perfectly capable of communicating with me.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"I thought Lucid was half joking when he made that comment."

Really? I don't, and as of yet he has made no mention of it being intended to carry a joking tone, which it did not.

"I don't think he's was trying to troll."

Well yeah, but you also think he was joking and he wasn't. The kid has clashed with me before and has, shall we say, enticed me into arguments. Basically, he slings mud in a manner that isn't obvious but certainly implied. What that means is that he doesn't flame, but he's certainly not above trolling.

"Too many of your arguments are weak."

He's incapable of admitting it, so he'd rather get into an argument with somebody else over somehting he has nothing to do with. So now, not only is he messing with me but he's showing himself too weak to back up his own argument.

"People may like Kingdom Hearts, but a kid with a key may not be as appealing."

Clockwork Knight owns you.

"Cloud does have character development it just isn't good."

Again, there's a difference between fact and opinion. Fact: Cloud has character development. Opinion: It wasn't good. Clearly YOU are intelligent to know the difference, recognize it, and probably argue your point very well. Anyone who says that a character who had very clear (even if bad) development had none then their statements are purely asinine. I can respect YOUR opinion, because it is based upon logic, and even if it disagrees with my opinion it is still justified.


---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"It doesn't matter. There is no factual way to say that Cloud "has good character development.""

But it is a fact that he has character devlopment of some sort putting him beyond the "one dimensional" status. He develops, he shows growth, he has inner turmoil. He has depth of character, he isn't one dimensional. He may have been developed poorly or in an unpleasant fashion but he was developed nonetheless.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

If you really think that I was being 100% serious when calling cloud 1 dimentional, and saying that the red mage from FF1 has more character development than him, than you're even more delusional then I thought.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"Using a hyperbole... being slightly sarcastic."

Main Entry: sar·casm
Pronunciation: 'sär-"ka-z&m
Function: noun
Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwar&s- to cut
1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain <tired of continual sarcasms>
2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm <this is no time to indulge in sarcasm>

Main Entry: hy·per·bo·le
Pronunciation: hI-'p&r-b&-(")lE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from Greek hyperbolE excess, hyperbole, hyperbola, from hyperballein to exceed, from hyper- + ballein to throw -- more at DEVIL
: extravagant exaggeration (as "mile-high ice-cream cones")


Who exactly needs to open their dictionary?
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

You can still do both at the same time, obviously.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

I was adding on to my previous post, not saying the two words were the same by the way.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"Look at Ryu's numbers, the ones that have him going to round 2. See how low they are?"

Again, it doesn't matter. Were you not capable of understanding that example? Ryu was up agaisnt a much stronger opponent, and for that people were unceratin. Sora was up against a nobody who may have had a touch match with Tanner for all anybody knew, and so the majority was certain who'd win. Again, what does that have to do with anything?

It's called prediction % for a reason. Because it's who people think will win, not who they want to win. People were relatively sure Sora would beat HK-47 yet they were unsure of Jill and Ryu H. That doesn't mean the bracket makers voted Sora over HK-47 more than they voted Jill over Ryu H. People do not always vote for the charactr who they have winning, in fact... very few of them do unless their favorite is the one in their bracket. Only in the harshest of situations will any noticable number of bracket makers vote against their favorite to help their bracket. Those are matches like Frog's and Ryu H's, and in those matches even though it was so dreadfully close that the brackets could have decided the match it still ended up AGAINST the brackets. Bracket voting is minimal at best, and a non-factor 95% of the time.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Hmmmm.... I can't believe that he's actually arguing for Cloud being one-dimensional. I just took it the same way that I would when someone says Character X sucks. I wouldn't have even tried to argue with that... I think this argument is just there for the sake of argument...

Cloud probably is the FARTHEST from being a one dimensional character in FFVII. People just may not like his character. BARRET is one-dimensional. TIFA is one dimensional. AERIS is one-dimensional. All these characters are the same throughout the whole game. One-dimensional is just a poor choice of words....


---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Oh for **sake I was overexagerating when I called him one dimentional, as I've said many times now.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

People hold on to disillusional ideas for a long, long time. Sora did not get SFF'd by Aeris, at all. If anything, Aeris was RKHF'd by Sora. The KHF applies to making a character known to a new audience so they recognize a over b. Sora was the main, aries was a damsel who did nothing but hang around with Squall. Tidus got more of a KHF boost then Aeris. I refuse to believe Sora suffered any SFF against Aeris last contest.

Was that post for me? I just said I took it as an exaggeration in the same way that I would take someone saying Cloud sucks. I'm just saying WHY ChichiriMuyo is arguing with you....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Back for the start of this match. Hope to see Ness do fairly well. I'll just say one thing to CM and then I'm done with this. therealnmn hit the nail on the head. I was half-joking when I made that comment. When you reacted with even more flaming, in spite of my post saying that's the only way you argue, I thought it was quite humorous.

What I'm trying to say is try to be a little less personal when you argue. When you say those types of things to people, whatever your reasons are, that is flaming, if not trolling. And besides, it makes you look bad.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Poll's started.

...Crap. Poor Ness. Not even a two second lead.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

"You seem to be under the impression that Webster is god and decides all facts. "

I'm under the impression that the dictionary companies go out of their way to insure that the words in their books are properly defined by their usage in the English language. In the English language "character development" has a given meaning, and based on that given meaning Cloud has character development. It may not be "good", but it's still there regardless.

"The difference is you called me detached from humanity."

That's called "hyperbole". I know you have clearly shown that you don't understand the deffinition of the word, and you're incapable of reading... but I'll say this again for everybodies benefit... I was exagerating.

"I'm saying that I'm not entirely detached from humanity."

And when I said you were, get this, I wasn't meaning it litterally! *gasp* *shock* *amazement*!!!

Really, you didn't think you were the only one capable of such techniques as using outlandlishly exagerated statements to convey an idea, did you?

"Something you seem to disagree with despite being perfectly capable of communicating with me."

I hope you're using your sarcasm and wit there, otherwise I'm going to have to say you need to go back and review your own playbook before you and I talk again.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

And he continues to argue with me, despite me clarifying it with him more than once. I just want to stop now, I'm sick of arguing over such a trivial thing.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Score-Brackets-% Right
50----5--------100.0000000
49----82-------98.7804878
48----177------90.9604520
47----278------88.8489209
46----350------84.0000000
45----468------74.7863248
44----658------69.4528875
43----952------65.4411765
42----1378-----64.5863570
41----1711-----59.7311514
40----2339-----59.9401454
39----2642-----58.4784254
38----3084-----58.0739300
37----3143-----57.6519249
36----2989-----56.4737370
35----2657-----54.4599172
34----2458-----51.9934906
33----1939-----48.1691594
32----1550-----47.1612903
31----1153-----44.9262793
30----821------38.1242387
29----644------34.7826087
28----472------32.2033898
27----330------31.2121212
26----237------27.8481013
25----172------19.7674419
24----108------22.2222222
23----82-------15.8536585
22----67-------19.4029851
21----37-------18.9189189
20----26-------7.6923077
19----15-------13.3333333
18----13-------23.0769231
17----4--------50.0000000
16----5--------0.0000000
15----4--------50.0000000
14----5--------20.0000000
13----2--------0.0000000
12----4--------0.0000000
11----6--------16.6666667
10----9--------11.1111111
9-----7--------0.0000000
8-----11-------9.0909091
7-----9--------0.0000000
6-----16-------6.2500000
5-----20-------5.0000000

Nobody with a score of 4 or lower got the match right. A couple of the near perfects got the match wrong, but overall the near perfects are averaging a prediction percentage in the 90s.

Nobody fell off the Top 50 today.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Poll's started.

...Crap. Poor Ness. Not even a two second lead.

From what I read, the first 7 votes were all for Auron. LOL.
---
Arkenaga | aganekrA
It's all the Big Bang's fault - it started everything.

"If you really think that I was being 100% serious when calling cloud 1 dimentional"

And if you think I've said anything 100% serious at all since I came back on tonight you're seriously incapable of understanding any of this sarcasm and hyperbole you're so fond of using yourself.

If you have a tool you cannot understand, don't use it, otherise your oddly shaped golf club may go off and shoot you in the face on the par 3 course.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

It doesn't matter that you were overexagerating chi, you were still purposely insulting me.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"You can still do both at the same time, obviously."

No doubt, yet you went on and on implying that I had no clue what those words meant when you clearly weren't capable of realizing that not only do I know them but I use them constantly.

Obviously I knew you were overexagerating, just so you know. Like I said before you were still insulting me purposely.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"I think this argument is just there for the sake of argument... "

So what are you implying... that I would argue in favor of Cloud even though i don't like him all that much just because I'm bored and want somehting to do?

Is that what you're trying to say?

Cause you'd be right, for the most part.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

I'm under the impression that the dictionary companies go out of their way to insure that the words in their books are properly defined by their usage in the English language. In the English language "character development" has a given meaning, and based on that given meaning Cloud has character development. It may not be "good", but it's still there regardless.

I go out of my way to look like Orlando Bloom. Do I? No. The dictionary is a compilation on how some people thing a word should be used. Language is really just a meathod of communication, thus as long as the message is produced it doesn't matter what was said as long as it was clearly understood.

Well I say Cloud is two-dimensional being as that his how the image is produced on the screen. </Smart ass>
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

Nah couldn't be. Were both enitrely sincere aren't we chi. I mean who cares that what were arguing over is entirely trivial, and were both obviously bored, theirs no way were just arguing for the hell of it. Never that. Never.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Bah screw this anyways, I'm going to bed to get the few hours of sleep I can manage before I get up in three or four hours.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Oh yeah, and before I go to bed....

I hope Ness dies a horrible death. *smashes Ness into background with full charged Flare Blade*
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

"What I'm trying to say is try to be a little less personal when you argue."

If people take it personal it's their own fault. People are warned on a constant basis of what I will do when people think they can argue with me when their argument hold no water. All the way back before you or anyone else that seems to be on right now found this discussion it happened. As long as "noobs" keep comming in here it will continue to happen. I've clashed with basically everybody that would fight back in any way, even Ulti and Shake... back in the day, and to some extent those who wouldn't. Either you learn to live with my ways, or you never had anything worth posting to begin with.

Hell, the only current regs I haven't had words with are Steve and HM, as far as I can tell. If someone wants to come in here and make boldly false comments, hyperbole or not, (or any half-attempt at trolling) I will show them more than enough boldly false comments (some call them flames) AND I will use such tactics as logic and fact to shut down their incoherent and/or poorly concieved arguments. Well, the first mostly only applies to Smurf, who for whatever reason uses some math that appears to have come out of a cracker jack box to make claims like "Link is the clear favorite" when anyone else with half a brain knows it's not true.

But anyway, all ya gotta do is not make crazy claims and not take me too seriously and I'll make things very fun and enjoyable :)

Oh, and don't jump on me for anything I say to anyone else, that's one of the things I hate the most, and that made some god awful arguments come up between myself and both Smit and The CN. If I'm not fighting with you, don't get involved. Watch the bloody ramblings and unecessarily uncouth arguments and laugh, because it's supposed to be as fun to watch as it is for me to do.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"I just want to stop now, I'm sick of arguing over such a trivial thing."

I'm not. Cloud isn't one dimensional, and I'm glad you can admit it... but if you are going to keep thrwing things at me I'm going to keep tearing at them...

Oh, and I couldn't keep up with the multiple conversations, so a lot of my replies were late. Sue me.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

so...is this how you guys got to 58 parts, or is this just a one-time thing?
---
redline15: sarcastic lurker

This and stats arguments. I mostly lerk though.
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

A'ight, I understand you now, Chi. Just don't confuse me with one of those newbs. I've been around for a long time, long enough to see every summer contest. The reason I've been inactive is because my main account is in purgatory for a rather stupid reason. I guess we're cool now, so I'll be off.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

"you were still purposely insulting me."

Not really. I'm sure you have a great social life. The fact of the matter is, if you make a statement that bold and that clear... especially when it's absolutely false... you have to expect similar statement in regards to your ability to define a character. My comments were as much a flame on you as yours were a troll on Cloud fans.

"Obviously I knew you were overexagerating, just so you know."

Well, you didn't let on to that when you kept insisting that I look up words I already know in a dictionary. Unless that was your dry wit. Dry like the desert.

"The dictionary is a compilation on how some people thing a word should be used."

Actually, it has nothing to do with what some people think and everything to do with what the majority agrees upon. If in ten years English speaking people as a whole used the word "stop" when they wanted to keep going then the dictionaries would cleary indicate the meaning of "stop" to be "continue going". The dictionary isn't made by some random group of people deciding what our words mean.

"Were both enitrely sincere aren't we chi."

Oh yes, very. Serious as a heart attack, swear on my living mother's grave.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"so...is this how you guys got to 58 parts, or is this just a one-time thing?"

Well... in the words of Ashe... "who wants some?". This is practically how we made it to part seven let alone the last 50 some parts. I stir up trouble, people react, most of the time everybody has fun in their own way.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Missed the part where they polled me and asked me what I thought a word meant. It is still a gathering of people deciding what the majority thinks.
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

"Just don't confuse me with one of those newbs."

I already hazed you, so as long as you don't jump in on my "hazing" I won't confuse you.

"The reason I've been inactive is because my main account is in purgatory for a rather stupid reason."

I already knew as much.

"I guess we're cool now"

We always were, unless you held some sort of grudge, but it's not like I could let you in on it. It's not as much fun if I do, you see.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

"It is still a gathering of people deciding what the majority thinks."

Again, it's not based on what people think, it's based on how that word is used in modern language. Look up the meaning of the word molest... originally it was only used as a term for being annoying. "Don't molest your brother" used to mean don't be a pest to him. Now it has another meaning. The English language "evolved", and te dictionary reflects that... if you look in one now it has the old meaning and the meaning that the word is used for now. The language we speak grows, and as it does so the dictionary deffinition is updated to reflect that. It's not that suddenly someone thought molestation meant unwanted physical sexual advances so it went in the dictionary that way... people began using it to mean that, and so the dictionary was adapted to include its newest usage.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

ahem... so... how bout that squall pick percentage eh.. pretty low huh?
---
If you're worried people are talking about you... you're probably right.

Not unexpectedly. Kirby wasn't exaclty any sort of push over. While we knew that result was fated the common bracket maker doesn't. The distribution of accuracy shows that it was just common bracket makers who expected a Kirby win.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Well articulated, I'll give you that. Yet sometimes the defintion of a word already in place isn't too acceptable, it changes, adapts. The example I cited before as the claims over Michael Moore's film Farenheit 9/11 and the Mark Twain quote. Sometimes defintions must be deleted because they are deemed by a majority invalid. (I actually enjoyed F9/11 by the way)
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

"Sometimes defintions must be deleted because they are deemed by a majority invalid."

And when that happens they are generally only kept as a side note, incase some small minority may think themselves intellectual enough to use a word in a peculiar manner. But it's not often words have a deffinition that is simply unused. If, without doubt, the word stop was no longer in use in the English language, not even in the vocabulary of the most wordy of people, I have little doubt that it woul dbe removed or relegatd to being no more than a footnote.

Anyway... bed time!
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Good point. I just don't think you can look at the dictionary as 100% fact, because placing something under a synonomous definition can be pretty shaky. Plus I have a hard time at looking at anything as 100% fact.

Sleep well...
---
See my writings at http://www.alexkaulfuss.com as the GrandioseGadfly
Fujin is the greatest character ever conceived by man.

Auron has a terrible picture. No discussion necessary.
---
Mario Sunshine-120 Shines || BtT 3:43.55 || HRC 37,179.9 ||

*yawn*...Can't sleep damn it.


I'm not. Cloud isn't one dimensional, and I'm glad you can admit it... but if you are going to keep thrwing things at me I'm going to keep tearing at them...

If you think you were owning me or something then you just go ahead and keep thinking that :). That argument wasn't one sided for either of us.

Unless that was your dry wit. Dry like the desert.

I'm not even going to touch that one.


Not really. I'm sure you have a great social life. The fact of the matter is, if you make a statement that bold and that clear... especially when it's absolutely false... you have to expect similar statement in regards to your ability to define a character. My comments were as much a flame on you as yours were a troll on Cloud fans.

I think that their is a huge difference between insulting a fictional character, and insulting a real person (even if it is online).

Now with all that said you can go ahead and get the last word, but I have no intention of making this argument go further than it already has.
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

Oh man...arguing is breaking my brain.

Here, let me put the subject back on track with this extremely insightful point concerning Sora vs. Ryu Hayabusa.

That point? Ryu Hayabusa will beat Sora. Why? Because I picked him, of course! I'd imagine 54/46, too.

Now everyone can be happy because I've just revealed all the secrets of the world concerning the Sora vs. Ryu H. match. There was no sarcasm or hyperbole involved at all, and definitely no cynical comments up to this very sentence.

Cloud > Squall. Cloud's character development > Squall's character development. This is clearly demonstrated in the fact that I played FF7 all the way through but only played FF8 up to disc three, where I became so bored that I drove a mountain-sized school around for an hour and quit. Squall would have wanted it that way.
---
"I don't know who you are but I thank you for arousing me." -- Terranigma

I think that my bracket is right about that match (I have a feeling). Jill valentine will beat HK-47 I think (or at least my bracket does).

>_>
<_<
*runs away from teh laughter*
---
"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

"I demand a moderator"
"I demand pie!" - OooO

XD

I remember that topic.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Auron looks....

NEKKID.
---
Schucks. I'm losing my account the day after Megaman vs. Snake...*_*...

Here's an incredibly insightful reason as to why Hayabusa will win:

I've picked Sora. End.
---
Jon Thomson - today: Auron, tomorrow: Sephiroth - 44/52
Nominate Ridley for Summer Contest 2005

Top 10 Closest Matches (difference in percentage)

1) 0.00% - (ii)Frog over Master Cheif
2) 0.04% - Ryu Hayabusa over Jill Valentine
3) 0.10% - Frog over Liquid Snake
4) 1.62% - Tidus over Shadow the Hedgehog
5) 8.96% - (ii) Yoshi over Luigi
6) 9.60% - Tails over Viewtiful Joe
7) 10.02% - (ii) Squall over Kirby
8) 10.16% - Ness over Jak
9) 10.86% - Sam Fisher over Gordon Freeman
10) 12.94% - Vivi over Donkey Kong

Top 10 Smallest Vote Gaps (difference in votes)

1) 7 - (ii) Frog over Master Cheif
2) 27 - Ryu Hayabusa over Jill Valentine
3) 93 - Frog over Liquid Snake
4) 1546 - Tidus over Shadow the Hedgehog
5) 6769 - (ii) Yoshi over Luigi
6) 7397 - Ness over Jak
7) 7673 - Tails over Viewtiful Joe
8) 8163 - Sam Fisher over Gordon Freeman
9) 9378 - (ii) Squall over Kirby
10) 11105 - Vivi over Donkey Kong

Top 10 Biggest Blowouts (difference in percentage)

1) 88.60% - Solid Snake over Tanner
2) 75.80% - (ii) Link over Ganondorf
3) 75.66% - Link over CATS
4) 72.74% - Sephiroth over Sly Cooper
5) 67.08% - Mario over J.C. Denton
6) 65.98% - Bowser over Guybrush Threepwood
7) 65.96% - Megaman over Eartworm Jim
8) 64.78% - Samus Aran over Lara Croft
9) 62.82% - (ii) Cloud Strife over Vyse
10) 62.08% - Magus over Luca Blight

Top 10 Biggest Vote Gaps (difference in votes)

1) 69759 - Solid Snake over Tanner
2) 66655 - (ii) Link over Ganondorf
3) 65362 - Sephiroth over Sly Cooper
4) 62319 - Link over CATS
5) 57252 - (ii) Cloud Strife over Vyse
6) 55813 - Megaman over Earthworm Jim
7) 54178 - Samus Aran over Lara Croft
8) 53705 - Cloud over Duke Milk'em
9) 52337 - Mario over J.C. Denton
10) 49299 - Sonic the Hedgehog over Terry Bogard

Top 10 Most Popular Polls (by vote totals)

1) 95122 - Tidus vs. Shadow the Hedgehog
2) 93546 - (ii) Squall vs. Kirby
3) 91146 - (ii) Cloud Strife vs. Vyse
4) 91041 - (ii) Master Cheif vs. Frog
5) 90064 - Auron vs. Scorpion
6) 89848 - Sephiroth vs. Sly Cooper
7) 88953 - Cloud vs. Duke Milk'em
8) 88102 - (ii) Megaman vs. Tidus
9) 87935 - (ii) Link vs. Ganondorf
10) 87733 - Frog vs. Liquid Snake

Top 10 Least Popular Polls (by vote totals)

1) 68808 - Vyse vs. Laharl
2) 70413 - Ryu Hayabusa vs. Jill Valentine
3) 70495 - Magus vs. Luca Blight
4) 72863 - Ness vs. Jak
5) 74039 - Dante vs. Ratchet
6) 74383 - Bowser vs. Guybrush Threepwood
7) 75219 - Sam Fisher vs. Gordon Freeman
8) 75307 - Luigi vs. Pac-Man
9) 75533 - (ii) Luigi vs. Yoshi
10) 77021 - Master Cheif vs. Crash Bandicoot

---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

Top 10 Highest Individual Votes

1) 77605 - Sephiroth
2) 77295 - (ii) Link
3) 74251 - Solid Snake
4) 74199 - (ii) Cloud
5) 72344 - Link
6) 71329 - Cloud
7) 70219 - Megaman
8) 68889 - Samus Aran
9) 65184 - Mario
10) 64615 - Sonic the Hedgehog

Top 10 Lowest Individual Votes

1) 4492 - Tanner
2) 10025 - CATS
3) 10640 - (ii) Ganondorf
4) 12243 - Sly Cooper
5) 12652 - Guybrush Threepwood
6) 12847 - J.C. Denton
7) 13367 - Luca Blight
8) 14406 - Earthworm Jim
9) 14602 - Ratchet
10) 14721 - Lara Croft

Top 10 Most Impressive Losers (by votes)

1) 46788 - Shadow the Hedgehog
2) 45517 - (ii) Master Cheif
3) 43820 - Liquid Snake
4) 42084 - (ii) Kirby
5) 37512 - Alucard
6) 37338 - Donkey Kong
7) 36102 - Viewtiful Joe
8) 35220 - Lettuce Kefka
9) 35193 - Jill Valentine
10) 34382 - (ii) Luigi

Top 10 Least Impressive Winners (by votes)

1) 35220 - Ryu Hayabusa
2) 40130 - Ness
3) 41151 - (ii) Yoshi
4) 41440 - Vyse
5) 41691 - Sam Fisher
6) 43775 - Tails
7) 43913 - Frog
8) 45524 - (ii) Frog
9) 47578 - Knuckles
10) 48239 - Tommy Vercetti

Top 10 Easiest Matches to Predict (based on entrants choosing the winner)

1) 98.79% - Link over CATS
2) 98.28% - Mario over J.C. Denton
3) 97.97% - Cloud over Duke Milk'em
4) 97.47% - Megaman over Earthworm Jim
4) 97.47% - Sonic the Hedgehog over Terry Bogard
6) 97.37% - Sephiroth over Sly Cooper
7) 97.27% - Solid Snake over Tanner
8) 96.48% - (ii) Cloud Strife over Vyse
9) 96.07% - (ii) Link over Ganondorf
10) 95.00% - Bowser over Guybrush Threepwood

Top 10 Hardest Matches to Predict (based on entrants choosing the winner)

1) 22.56% - (ii) Frog over Master Cheif
2) 31.57% - (ii) Zero over Tommy Vercetti
3) 35.13% - Vivi over Donkey Kong
4) 43.05% - Knuckles over Kefka
5) 43.86% - (ii) Yoshi over Luigi
6) 44.33% - Frog over Liquid Snake
7) 46.30% - Tails over Viewtiful Joe
8) 48.56% - Ryu Hayabusa over Jill Valentine
9) 54.16% - Ness over Jak
10) 54.91% - (ii) Squall over Kirby


---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

and, wow, Ness is doing better than i thought he would. he's pushing for 33%. is Ness really just about as strong as Scorpion?

---
That's it. I have reached my threshold of pain. I am going home and I am going to play Megaman, eat snack cakes, and do my woman.

Maybe Scorpion just fell a lot, since I'd have a hard time placing Auron as high in stats as he would be had Scorpion not changed.

But still, Auron's probably not too far from Bowser. So I'd say there was some SFF in Ness Vs. Bowser, as weird as that sounds to me...
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

You're a joke. You're barely above Smurf and Tai, and that's only because you're comments aren't ALL idiotic.

Did I ever say you were a hateful person? Absolutely not, but I think the fact that you went out of your way to diss me when I haven't said anything hostile to you proves you probably are hateful, after all.

Hihgly necessary. Consider your post marked.

---

Wow, you spent half a topic arguing about Cloud's character and semantics? *sigh* Hopefully CN will know better than to archive that part.

And LOL at Tonberry. Remember when I said I hadn't seen a good case for Shadow? Well, this one takes the cake. Sora with the day vote? WTF. Hayabusa having less brackets coming out of round 2 than Sora just because he had less out of round 1? That's plain idiotic. The bracket vote making any significant impact? Please. The guy shouldn't be allowed to post here, he's just a waste of time for those who know what they're talking about, not unlike Smurf.

Let's just say I am very happy that I have Hayabusa winning this match. And if he can get a ninja pic this time... hey, am I the only one under the impression Strider did as well as he did against Link just because of his pic? I mean, Raziel went down quite a bit after that.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Oh, and Ness with the day vote? That could be interesting.

I have no idea whether the results are due to Bowser/Ness SFF or Cloud/Auron SFF though. Perhaps a little bit of both. But to what extent? Shouldn't the two cancel each other out, making Auron underperform badly?
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Ness, strangely enough, is impressing me.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

All right, Squall got his 55% on Kirby. Not bad at all.

Ness is doing better than I thought.
---
Mega Man and Heroic Mario are well on their way to winning the Summer Contest...But Squall will still win!

From: Heroic Mario | Posted: 9/12/2004 11:27:28 PM | Message Detail
I'll just state one fact before watching the Chiefs head down and take care of the Broncos

Come again?
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Squall has a much better role in Kingdom Hearts than Cloud. One of my friend likes him better because he's voiced by her beloved Angel. Squall's character was done MUCH better in his KH cameo. Plus I liked fighting him better as well. The one hand in pocket thing was pretty cool. And you've got to love the way he yells "IT'S OVER!" before he brings the gunblade down on Sora's head....

Now there's a Squall argument that I cannot disagree with. I loved him in KH. My issue comes with FF8. I'm trying to start anything, but I simply don't understand his appeal. I suppose that relating to him would make a person like him, but I don't exactly relate with him.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

I hate almost all the characters in FFVIII and the story. Squall is completely unlikeable and cliche and goes through a complete metamorphisis late in the game with no development. Rinoa annoys me. Zell annoys me. Selphie ANNOYS me. Irvine annoys me. Quitis is really the only character I could handle, and even she has huge moments of stupidity. Like liking Squall. The story is full of landmine type plotholes and changes focus way too many times to keep track. A bad game character/story wise and gameplay wise

*applauds*

Brilliant, though I'm not as nice when I go FF8-hating.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Time to tackle Tonberry's post here....

Time to show why Sora's the favorite:

The Bracket Vote Factor:

29
Sora
HK-47
75.4%

30
Ryu Hayabusa
Jill Valentine
48.56%

Forget the fact that Jill's stronger than HK-47, thats still sheer number of brackets on Sora's side.

Sora wins the bracket vote. A LOT less people have Ryu going into round 2, and thus people will bracket vote Sora because 1: They have him winning or 2: They want to prevent a further loss of points.

Go look at Vivi vs Donkey Kong, Kefka vs Knuckles, and Tommy Vercetti vs Zero. Bracket voting only helps if you were actually strong enough to win in the first place.

SFF from Last Year:

Look at Aeris performance against Sora. She killed him, and I think he got...what, 30 percent of the vote? Considering Aeris is one of the most popular Square characters in the most popular Square series, and the fact that she murdered Master Chief and did well against Sonic, i'm pretty impressed. There is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS SFF match between them (Sora and Aeris), and Sora was very underrated in 2003.

Not a bad point at all, but SFF is very fickle. It's tough to judge how badly Sora suffered from it.

The Casual Vote Factor:

Whoever thinks Ryu Hayubasa is more recognizable to a casual GameFAQs user (or someone who doesn't even own a Message Board account, that strolls to the site every once in a while looking for FAQs) than Sora is asinine. There is NO WAY that Ryu is that recognizable to the common person. If you randomly went up to someone at a school and asked them if they knew either characters, chances are it'd be Sora.

I'd lean the other way around on that one. Go ahead, admit in public in a high school that you like Kingdom Hearts. After getting laughed at, ask your friends if they own an Xbox.

Console RPGs are popular on GameFAQs, but you'd be amazed how badly they get bashed in many other places. I would think that the matches Xbox has been in thusfar would prove that North America knows who Xbox characters are, and that there is little to no anti-voting going on anymore. I said this at the very beginning, but Xbox will do just fine for itself.

The Day Vote

Ryu built a steady lead on Jill Valentine through the night time. I contribute this to the massive board 8 support Ryu has, and the fact that the casual person hadn't visited the site yet. However, Jill made her climb through the day and early night time, up till near midnight PST. I imagine that pattern to hold true in the next match, where Sora will definitely gain from the casual vote advantage. This is where his recognition will come in handy, and Ryu's strong support will diminish.

Okay, two things. One, the Board 8 voting pattern dies down within a few seconds. That's why we only saw the likes of Magus, Duke Nukem, and Vyse winning for the first few seconds. Two, you're counting on the day vote to save a Square character when the better argument is the evening and/or night votes saving him.

As for Ryu's strong support, he took down Jill Valentine despite being the bracket underdog. I wouldn't think that his support will die against some brat whose claim to fame is having a big key.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Square Fan Support:

This site has always been dominated by Square fans, thats not something thats up for debate. Just being from a popular and critically acclaimed Squaresoft game gives Sora an advantage here.

I can't imagine Sora being stronger than any other Square character in this contest.

Intangibles

This is the one area where i'll give Ryu the advantage. Not only does he CLEARLY have a strong support from Board 8 and other GameFAQs MSG Board Regulars, but Sora doesn't seem to have much of a following at all. Many flocked to HK-47 and gave him their vote, creating a much smaller gap between the two until the day vote kicked in.

The picture will probably favor Ryu, too. I haven't seen a close up shot that doesn't make Sora look goofy, but if its big and decent, people should be able to recognize him pretty easily. Unless the Keyblade is in the photo somehow, I think Ryu's bad*** Ninja looks will swing some votes from the undecided population of voters.

Advantage: Sora

Dub T's Prediction: Sora with 53.79% of the vote.

How could you say that Ryu has the intangible factor, then give it to Sora? >_>

As for the picture, did you get a good look at Ryu's mug in the first round? It was HORRIBLE, and he still won.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Come again?

*shakes head* I can't believe the Chiefs lost.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

You're not Ulti; no one goes out of their way just to annoy you. Sorry.

I find it flattering.

In any case, I'm off to play Super Metroid.

One of the best goddamned games EVER. Took me a few runthroughs, but damn.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

Still 5 perfects...249 above me so that went down by a few...though I see no real movement there til Sora falls to Ryu and Tails falls to Dante...

---
Steve Illumina: Official Satirical Commentator of SC2K4
Perfects to Fall: 5 SC2K4: 51/54 (Go RYU H!)

Looks like I'll have an almost perfect round 2. (Jill)
---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

I will have a perfect round 2 :)
---
Steve Illumina: Official Satirical Commentator of SC2K4
Perfects to Fall: 5 SC2K4: 47/50 (Go RYU H!)

I go out of my way to look like Orlando Bloom. Do I? No. The dictionary is a compilation on how some people thing a word should be used. Language is really just a meathod of communication, thus as long as the message is produced it doesn't matter what was said as long as it was clearly understood.

Okay, that was a bad post. By that logic, any word can mean anything.

BING-SNORT-FLANG-LING-BUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

In any case, I'm off to play Super Metroid.

One of the best goddamned games EVER. Took me a few runthroughs, but damn.

*Agrees* Try playing it in surround sound with the bass turned up, especially in the fights against Kraid and Ridley. One of the best soundtracks ever.... Notice Nintendo has recycled the music from that game in every Metroid game since.

---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I stir up trouble, people react, most of the time everybody has fun in their own way.

Didn't you say earlier in the topic that someone attacked you first? <_<
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

The guy shouldn't be allowed to post here, he's just a waste of time for those who know what they're talking about, not unlike Smurf.

Dude, that was harsh. Tonberry is a good guy.
---
Winner of the Spring 2004 'Best. Game. Ever.' Contest
*Married to smitelf on 5/21/04* ++SCC GOD++

I go out of my way to look like Orlando Bloom. Do I? No.

ORLANDO BLOOM?!? WHERE??? WHERE?!?!?
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

I'm not sure what the extrapolateds predicted for this match, but I'm a little disappointed that Auron's not getting 70%ish on Ness, personally. He deserved a good victory before his upcoming impalement...
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Well that's SFF on Bowser vs. Ness, but I didn't thought it was that much
---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

Ness is as strong as Scorpion?

o_O
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I know it's weird. It's even if you factor in the loss percent of Scorpion, it's like saying Ness will get almost 48% on Luigi.
---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

opps more like 42%
---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

I agree with smitelf.... I wanted Auron to get at least 70% on Ness. Maybe it's due to this being a Nintendo vs. Square match and Ness is drawing more support than he normally would... Ah well, like I care.

*sends Ness airborne with a downward sword thrust to the head from Young Link*
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Here's what a bracket would look like if we had the sc2k4 characters done by division

Characters by era

8-bit Division

1. Link
16. Duke

8. Ryu
9. Ryu Hayabusa

5. Solid Snake
12. Luigi

4. Samus
13. Protoman

6. Ganondorf
11. Donkey Kong

3. Mega Man
14. Bomberman

7. Bowser
10. Alucard

2. Mario
15. Pac-Man

16-bit Division

1. Crono
16. Guybrush

8. Knuckles
9. Scorpion

5. Yoshi
12. Earthworm Jim

4. Zero
13. Ness

6. Kirby
11. Kefka

3. Magus
14. Terry

7. Frog
10. Tails

2. Sonic
15. CATS

32/64-bit Division

1. Cloud
16. Tanner

8. Lara
9. Conker

5. Liquid Snake
12. Gordon

4. Vivi
13. JC Denton

6. Jill
11. Crash

3. Squall
14. Luca

7. Vyse
10. Kain

2. Sephiroth
15. Ryo

128-bit Division

1. Tidus
16. Sly Cooper

8. Sora
9. Sam

5. Tommy Vercetti
12. Laharl

4. Master Chief
13. Jak

6. Dante
11. Max

3. Auron
14. HK-47

7. KOS-MOS
10. Viewtiful Joe

2. Shadow
15. Ratchet

---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

I know you had to do it to keep up equal number in eras, but Guybrush is one of the oldest characters in this contest and easily falls into the 8 bit era.

What is Alucard doing in the 8 bit division?
---
Points in the S2k4C: 50/52
Next pick: Auron

Wasn't Guybrush's first game in 1990

also wasn't Alucard in Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse
---
Summer 2004 Contest 47/52 Auron vs. Ness

That's like putting Cloud in 16 division because he appeared in FFV...
---
Points in the S2k4C: 50/52
Next pick: Auron

I will predict this one

1. Link
16. Duke

8. Ryu
9. Ryu Hayabusa

5. Solid Snake
12. Luigi

4. Samus
13. Protoman

6. Ganondorf
11. Donkey Kong

3. Mega Man
14. Bomberman

7. Bowser
10. Alucard

2. Mario
15. Pac-Man

16-bit Division

1. Crono
16. Guybrush

8. Knuckles
9. Scorpion

5. Yoshi
12. Earthworm Jim

4. Zero
13. Ness

6. Kirby
11. Kefka

3. Magus
14. Terry

7. Frog
10. Tails

2. Sonic
15. CATS

32/64-bit Division

1. Cloud
16. Tanner

8. Lara
9. Conker

5. Liquid Snake
12. Gordon

4. Vivi
13. JC Denton

6. Jill
11. Crash

3. Squall
14. Luca

7. Vyse
10. Kain

2. Sephiroth
15. Ryo

128-bit Division

1. Tidus (TIDUS?????)
16. Sly Cooper

8. Sora
9. Sam

5. Tommy Vercetti
12. Laharl

4. Master Chief
13. Jak

6. Dante
11. Max

3. Auron
14. HK-47

7. KOS-MOS
10. Viewtiful Joe

2. Shadow
15. Ratchet

Round 2.

1. Link over Ryu
4. Samus over Solid Snake
3. Mega Man over Ganondorf
2. Mario over Alucard

1. Crono over Knuckles
4. Zero over Yoshi
3. Magus over Kirby
2. Sonic over Frog

1. Cloud over Conker
4. Vivi over L.Snake
3. Squall over Jill
2. Sephiroth over Vyse

1. Tidus over Sora
4. Master Chief over Tommy Vercetti
3. Auron over Dante (But we will see how it would go after Dante VS Tails)
2. Shadow over KOS-MOS

Round 3.

1. Link over Samus
3. Mega Man over Mario

1. Crono over Zero
2. Sonic over Magus

1. Cloud over Vivi
2. Sephiroth over Vivi

1. Tidus over Masterchief
2. Shadow over Auron (Even if I think that Auron would win, I willl still have Shadow over him)

Round 4.

1. Link over Megaman (sad but true)
2. Sonic over Crono
2. Sephiroth over Cloud
1. Tidus over Shadow

Round 5

1. Link over Sonic (Sad but true)
2. Sephiroth over Tidus (DUH)

Final

Link over Sephiroth.

---
I have AgentONeal XTREME to thank for saving my life, ask me how!" "Bigboi was right. Tidus > Shadow." .52/54

Sonic over Crono?
---
Did you know 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

Well well well. Ness appears to be doing quite good. I still don't think there was any SFF in Bowser Vs. Ness, and I am *not* going to try to an argument about that again.*

I'm going to have to go with my "casual hardcore" theory that characters that are famous *for* being cultish, like Ness and also Fan-Favorites like Vivi and Auron, are doing better because the new poll position will help the voting base (people that go out of their way to play cultish games like Earthbound, but not super cultish games like Disgaea) that is voting for them.


*Ness is more liked among SSB fans anyway. That will be my final comment on the matter.
---
"Hii-iii!!"--Kirby

I love that bracket, with the exception of div128. Tidus as a 1 seed...*shudder*

Lots of good matches, like Mario/Mega Man, Samus/Snake, Magus/Sonic, Vivi/Liquid, Vercetti/Chief, and Auron/Shadow.

Good stuff.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

And two characters that were SFF'd last year does not a good prediction make. The XS are useless here, and I don't like Chichiri's idea of basing the fourpack off of Scorp 2k2 either.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

We had this little discussion of Tidus being a 1-seed in a bracket by era between the two contests, didn't we? I made a bracket like that back then, and that's when it rose.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

"Didn't you say earlier in the topic that someone attacked you first?"

Well yeah, I stir up trouble wiht one persona nd someone else jumps in on the fun... I get to throw around words like troll and hypocrite lightly then.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

I find it funny how 16 characters fit in each division with only one stretch... Ryo.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

We had this little discussion of Tidus being a 1-seed in a bracket by era between the two contests, didn't we? I made a bracket like that back then, and that's when it rose.

Yes, I remember. It still shocks me, even if it's true.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

Yep. Every other post began with "(1) Tidus" in italics.

By the way, there's some random whiner on Site Suggestions complaining about FF characters being too strong. Teach him a lesson for me, will ya?
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Sonic over Crono?

What, fanboys have to be loyal, right.
---
I have AgentONeal XTREME to thank for saving my life, ask me how!" "Bigboi was right. Tidus > Shadow." .52/54

No, fanboys can be realistic every once in awhile. You don't have to be too delusional. But then again, Sonic over Crono is still possible, though doubtful. It's not like you put Shadow over Crono...
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Back from a three-day-hiatus......totally missed the Cloud and Squall matches. Oh well, at least the bracket-appropriate characters won, despite my utter loathing of Squall....

Anyway, I hope I'm not the only one who is supremely saddened by the fact that Auron will be slaughtered next round by Sephy. He deserves better, dammit!

For the record, what do the X-stats predict Auron will get on old Sephy? Thanx in advance!
---
"Spira is full of death...only SIN is reborn, and then only to bring more death. It is a cycle of death, spiraling endlessly."- Auron

For the record, what do the X-stats predict Auron will get on old Sephy? Thanx in advance!

Whatever it is, it's too low, because it's fairly clear that there was some Cloud/Auron SFF last year, and adjusting it doesn't really help. Using 2k3 Scorp, Auron is in the Sonic/Snake range, and with 2k2 Scorp, Auron's between Shadow/Tidus and Ganondorf. Neither of which seem too likely, to me at least.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

Forgot the actual prediction. It's 28.89% using an unadjusted Auron from 2k3.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

If auron got massive SSF from cloud don't you think he'll get about the same from seph?
---
Did you know 86% of all statistics are made up on the spot?

That's ridiculously low, even for someone like Sephy as an opponent. Auron should get AT THE VERY LEAST 30%+.
---
"Spira is full of death...only SIN is reborn, and then only to bring more death. It is a cycle of death, spiraling endlessly."- Auron

I think you mean sFf, not sSf.

And he probably wouldn't get quite as much from Sephy, as Cloud is generally more popular.
---
"Spira is full of death...only SIN is reborn, and then only to bring more death. It is a cycle of death, spiraling endlessly."- Auron

If auron got massive SSF from cloud don't you think he'll get about the same from seph?

SFF is rather finicky. That might prove true, it might not. There's really no way of knowing.

That's ridiculously low, even for someone like Sephy as an opponent. Auron should get AT THE VERY LEAST 30%+.

Few characters (16, with SFF) would get over 30% on Seph. It's Clinkeroth for a reason.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

I'm not the kind of guy to say... **** it. I TOLD YOU SO.

I KNEW that Ness was not that weak, that he was simply SFF'd against Bowser. I was laughed at and called a fanboy. And now here you are eating your words and I'm right AGAIN.

And how about the Redskins? Though the score didn't reflect it, they just dominated Tampa Bay. Joe Gibbs for president! And how about TO and the Eagles? My two favorite teams look absolutely awesome this year.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

This match is rather interesting. Ness got 24.93% on Bowser last year. With Auron's match against Scorpion, he was projected to be much stronger than Bowser. Yet that doesn't seem to be the case, unless Ness suffered around 9% of SFF against Bowser. I find that unlikely. An unadjusted Ness vs an unadjusted Auron gives Ness 26.87%, yet Ness is approaching 34%. The relationship between Ness and Auron is given by 34 = 50 * Ness / Auron, you can solve for Auron, graph it, and clearly see that it is linear. That means there was much more SFF in Ness/Bowser than Cloud/Auron, and that Scorp must have dropped quite a bit to keep Ness/Bowser from being SFF'd beyond reason.

Very interesting.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

34 = 50 * Ness / Auron

By that I mean the values of Ness and Auron vs Link, not each other. Just clarifying. If I screwed anything up, I'm sure creativename or Aprosenf will be around to correct me.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

Man, I'm tired of being right.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

"I KNEW that Ness was not that weak, that he was simply SFF'd against Bowser."

And I as well. Those who listened to me were rewarded for their trust, those who didn't got PWNED!

"That means there was much more SFF in Ness/Bowser than Cloud/Auron"

And Ness was further from Bowser than Auron was from Cloud to begin with, so it's logical that Ness would have suffered more.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

More fun:

Ness would have had to suffer 6.74% of SFF vs Bowser for Auron to remain unchanged.

Auron would have had to have suffered 7.8% of reverse SFF (in his favor) for Ness to remain unchanged.

If Auron was a strong as 2k3 Scorp vs Auron predicts, Ness would have suffered 13.72% of SFF vs Bowser

If Auron was a strong as 2k2 Scorp vs Auron predicts, Ness would have suffered 12.57% vs Bowser

If Auron is unchanged from last year and Ness suffered 6.74% SFF vs Bowser, Scorpion has to drop 4.41%.

I could go on, but I hope you get the point. Scorpion had to drop past his 2k2 levels for this match to make sense, as I've been saying all along. I don't think there was all that much SFF in Auron/Cloud, either, another thing that I've been saying. Certainly not enough to make Auron stronger than Sonic. Oh, and this also proves that Nintendo SFF is worse than Square SFF, and hurts Sora's chances a little bit more.
---
Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

I wonder why some people are in denial that there was SFF in Bowser/Ness. They are both Nintendo characters, after all.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Wow your right. I could of sworn there was more time in between Monkey Island and Monkey Island II.

I thought MI was closer to Maniac Mansion which was finished in 87.

The moment Ness beat Jak you were right. The SSBMF worked for Ness, enabling reconizability, ala the KHF. He just doesn't get the SSBM reconizability factor against Bowser.

Of course Auron isn't stronger than Sonic. But there was still SFF last year, and while I do believe Scorp also dropped I'm also sure Auron is much stronger than his 2k3 standings. Even you admit that for Ness to be unchanged Auron had to have benefited from reverse SFF, so obviously Ness isn't unchanged.

It's clearly a combination, Auron and Ness suffered SFF and Scorp dropped some. Really, that fact should never have been in doubt. With standard variations and all that factored in 2k2 Scorp, or slightly lower, makes pretty good sense and everyhting else lines up fairly well.
---
True love is a fairy tale. I'm damaged, so how would I know? - Plummet: Damaged

Wow. Ness nearing 40% against Bowser without SFF seems high, but then again, Scorpion made Auron look like Solid Snake last round. Let's not forget that either.

And kudos to Chichiri for that little thingy on SS. That's why you people have every right to be "elitist".
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Personally, I think the SSB/SSBM factor is absolutely huge for Ness. The casual gamer doesn't know Ness from Earthbound (cult), but most casual gamers know who Ness is, from SSB/SSBM. Regardless of whether or not they liked him, he has a largely increased recognizability. I dont think the game helped other characters, but to a lot of people, Ness is SSB, not Earthbound.

Not to mention, you have your Nintendo fanboys on this site, who Ness is now a part of, and the non-RPG players, a lot of whom now know Ness, etc. I think while SSB/SSBM aren't the newest of games, Ness is simply increasing in popularity and recognizability on this site.
---
Score: 45/48
Midgar Picks: Cloud, Squall, Auron, Sephiroth

I've always said that if Mother 1 & 2 for the GBA were released in North America instead of just Japan, Ness' popularity would go up dramatically. Consider the ratio of people who love EarthBound to those who hate it, among those who have actually played the game. That's why EarthBound is the most well-known "cult" game. It's a true classic.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Bingo. SSBM didn't make the Final 4 this spring for nothing. It beat recent games from established franchises (FF10, Wind Waker), huge casual favorites (Halo, Vice City), and of course Mass Koreans, to that spot.

That was what left me with the impression that Ness was stronger than he was made out to be, no matter whether he was worthless in the game. Against Bowser he only had his core Earthbound fanbase, you know, the one who nominated him all the way to a 6-seed.

Plus, Earthbound being much more popular than Ness even with the SSBM exposure never sounded right.

As a side note, similar Spring Contest impressions are a part of my reasoning for picking Mario over Crono. I was right beyond my wildest dreams for Ness... but what about THAT?
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

People forget that there was also the original Super Smash Brothers. I don't know what some people have been led to believe, but last time I checked, SSB for the N64 was one of the three best-selling fighting games of all time. And Ness was simply a god in that game.

---
I am Lucid Faia.

Yes, of course it was. However, SSBM is still vastly preferred among those who played both.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Except among Ness players, such as myself. :P

---
I am Lucid Faia.

I didn't play Ness much back then either. I always sucked at pulling his triple jump correctly.

Incidentally, you know who was banned from play back when we were playing SSB in high school? Not Ness. Not Kirby. Donkey Kong. We'd make a team of three against another friend's DK and we'd get slaughtered anyway. And it's not because that friend was good... he sucked whenever using anyone else.
---
SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Except among Ness players, such as myself. :P

Convert to Sheik. No, not Zelda/Sheik...just Sheik, like I did.

Thank me later.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Sheik, Marth and Fox are all at the top in SSBM. But Fox isn't worth the effort, in my opinion. Sheik's definitely the easiest... tilt combos O_o;
---
M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Finally, got through all that garbage....

Moltar's First Thoughts on: Ness vs. Auron

Usual routine this morning. Checked the poll to see Auron winning 66-34%. Now Ness is a little closer. I'm a little surprised Ness is doing so well.

Eh, I really don't care for this match.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

I wonder why some people are in denial that there was SFF in Bowser/Ness. They are both Nintendo characters, after all.

Never doubted that there was SFF, myself. I merely doubted it being all that large. Its the only reason I stuck with Jak over Ness - I would have placed Jak above where Ness placed in the standings last year, and assumed that Ness would be slightly stronger due to SFF but not enough to edge out Jak.

Well, its seems like I could have been right about Jak's strength...but this match makes the SFF that was in Bowser-Ness seem absolutely amazing.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Midgar Division: Round 2 - Match 44 – (7)Vivi vs. (2)Sephiroth

Moltar’s Analysis

Vivi - Casts spells that even YOU couldn’t imagine…

Round 1 – vs. DK (Vivi: 56.47% - DK: 43.53%)

Wow…we were actualy expecting a pretty good match here. Instead, Vivi makes DK look like nothing.

Sephiroth - If only all evil villains looked this good…

Round 1 – vs. Sly Cooper (Sephiroth: 86.37% - Sly: 13.63%)

Ouch, Sephiroth blows Sly away, hopefully out of the Contest forever.

After Vivi’s tough match against DK, it doesn’t seem to be worth getting blown away by Sephiroth. Well, that’s what’s going to happen here. Oh the joys of SFF…

God…these Midgar matches bore me…

Moltar’s Bracket Says: Sephiroth will win.

Moltar’s Prediction is: Vivi 27% - Sephiroth 73%



Ulti's Analysis

Same Fanbase Factor, my ass. If this contest were solely up to me, Vivi would win this match. But unfortunately, it isn't up to me. Sephiroth will win with ease, and he will go on to challenge Cloud in this whole thing, but there aren't too many people happier than me about Vivi winning a match. Yeah I picked DK in my bracket, but that was me going solely by the math. In my heart of hearts, I can't help but love the little guy. Now factor in that THE ONLY TIME VIVI FEELS ALIVE IS WHEN HE IS MERCILESSLY SLAUGHTERING THE MASSES, and you have one of the single greatest characters/inside jokes ever. Vivi will be gone after this match, but definitely not forgotten.

Ulti's Bracket/Prediction - Sephiroth/Sephiroth with 72.93%



Cena’s Analysis

You know, a lot of people like Vivi. And the SFF factor won't be nearly as big (if any) than any of the previous matches, so I'm guessing Vivi could pull 25% from Sephiroth easily. Easily, indeed. Serphiroth, however, hasn't really lost a lot of strength, and people still have him winning the whole thing. As wrong as that may be, he does have a considerable chance. To be honest, Vivi beating Donkey Kong was a fluke, and the mage doesn't deserve to fight Sephiroth. That will make it easier for me to anti-vote him and hope he meets a dead-end against the silver-haired killer of Ae...ons. Oh, wrong game. Sorry. Sephiroth wins, Vivi loses. Good lord, when did I stop doing actual analyses? These are just prophetic predictions now.

Cena's Vote: Sephiroth

Cena's Prediction: Sephiroth with 72% (w00t)
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

To be honest, Vivi beating Donkey Kong was a fluke

...What?
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I never really imagined that just being from the same company is enough for SFF. Especially when the two game types are pretty different.

I don't think Ryu would hit SFF going up against Megaman, anyway...
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

I just looked at the poll vote updater, and Ness has gone up a little more than a quarter of a percent in the last hour. Impressive for him. =)
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Especially when the two game types are pretty different.

Not really, FF IX has most in common to FF VII, even compared to FF VIII.

Almost every FF IX fan I ever met IRL is also a fan of FF VII.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Link over Megaman (sad but true)

Pssh. You'll play a different tune after this year. ;)

For today, I'm pretty surprised at how well Ness is doing. I expected that Auron would be able to exceed 70% on this one.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Does anyone know what Samus would have to get on Sam Fisher to look like she actually does have a legitimate chance at an upset? I wasn't sure because I didn't know if Sam's performance against Gordon meant that he dropped or Gordon rose... =/

Help, please....
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

For today, I'm pretty surprised at how well Ness is doing. I expected that Auron would be able to exceed 70% on this one.

It's reasonable though, as anyone who owned a GC but not a PS2 wouldn't recognize Auron.

While Ness isn't a likeable char at all, most GC owners will recognize him from his SSB/M appearance.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Samus is gonna murder Sam like 80-20
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<reptile-> The first time hypr opened a box of Cheerios and looked inside he yelled, "OH WOW! DONUT SEEDS!"
<hypr> wtf are donut seeds

The odds of someone not recognizing Auron on this site are slim.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Does anyone know what Samus would have to get on Sam Fisher to look like she actually does have a legitimate chance at an upset?

Samus would have to look like a beast. I'm talking 80-85%, and maybe we should start ph33ring.
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

Does anyone know what Samus would have to get on Sam Fisher to look like she actually does have a legitimate chance at an upset? I wasn't sure because I didn't know if Sam's performance against Gordon meant that he dropped or Gordon rose... =/

Repeat after me:
"You can NOT accurately gauge a char's strength by how much he/she/it beats a fodder."

Noone can tell whether Sam dropped or Gordon rose, they're obscure enough that people can never tell.

Note that while their associated games may be popular, few people actually remember their names.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

I was referring to SFF with Ness and Bowser.

Earthbound is pretty different from the Mario platformers.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Samus would have to look like a beast. I'm talking 80-85%, and maybe we should start ph33ring.

Samus got about 82% on Lara Croft, ya know. Sam can breat 20% with little doubt in my mind, but probably not by alot.
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I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Samus would be expected to get 68.93% against Sam Fisher in 2003 and that'd be assuming he didn't drop. Cloud would have been expected to get 77.19% against him.

If Fisher dropped completely and no Freeman rise, Cloud would be expected to get about 82.1% against him. Samus would be expected to get 76.41%

So, with all that said, for her to be looking at a shot for beating Cloud it'd have to be inbetween 77-83%. That allows room for Freeman to increase, Fisher to decrease, or a mixture of the two.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Ness isn't a likeable char at all

...
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Thank you to everyone who answered. I want to see a gigantic upset like that. ^_^;
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I was referring to SFF with Ness and Bowser.

Earthbound is pretty different from the Mario platformers.

Out of all of my RL friends who own a GC, not a single one owns EB.

But all of them owns SSBM, this is where the SFF comes from, casual voters have no idea who Ness is outside of SSBM.

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Real monsters are not those who has the power to destroy, but those who has the intention to do so.

Out of all of my RL friends who own a GC, not a single one owns EB.

But all of them owns SSBM, this is where the SFF comes from, casual voters have no idea who Ness is outside of SSBM.

Kinda funny how, when I told EVERYONE that before brackets were locked they said I was stupid.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Lucid here. My main account is in purgatory, and now my backup has reached it's post limit. I can't win.

Nothing would please me more in this contest than to see Samus upset Cloud. That would just make my day. I'll be sure to pay attention to that match.

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

While on the subject, I'd absolutely hate to see Samus beat Cloud.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Out of all of my RL friends who own a GC, not a single one owns EB.

But all of them owns SSBM, this is where the SFF comes from, casual voters have no idea who Ness is outside of SSBM.

Don't forget SSB.

I'm not a friend of yours, but I own a GCN and EB. Then again, I'm pretty far away from being a "casual" gamer.

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

34.58% of GameFAQs is not sane.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

While on the subject, I'd absolutely hate to see Samus beat Cloud.

Then we're opposed again. See, while Cloud acts badass, but in reality is a wimp, Samus is badass. I'm a big Samus fan. :)

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

While on the subject, I'd absolutely hate to see Samus beat Cloud.

You're no fun. =P

Upsets kick ass. =D
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I'm a big fan of Cloud. The differences are just always there, Lucid. ;)
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

It would be awesome to see Samus beat Cloud, if impossible.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

34.58% of GameFAQs is not sane.

I would say "Ness > j00" or some nonsense like that, but you are Kerrigan and clearly "Kerrigan > Ness", so whatever. =(

But my family does think that I'm off-balance.....
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Why would y ou like Ness if he was just some character in a Nintendo fighting game you never heard of?

It doesn't help that his playstyle is "unorthodox"
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Well, I wouldn't want her to win. I don't even want her to come close, but I would like to see that much just for contest purposes. Stretching the "Big 3" out to five would be cool. =)
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

First off, who the hell hasn't heard of Smash? Next, he was god in SSB. Then you factor in that this is GameFAQs, a site where Nintendo and Square rule. Being an RPG on a Nintendo system doesn't hurt EarthBound or it's characters. More people know who Ness is than you think.

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

Why would y ou like Ness if he was just some character in a Nintendo fighting game you never heard of?

... There are people who haven't heard of SSB/SSBM on this site? O_O

It doesn't help that his playstyle is "unorthodox"

He's still at the very top of SSB and near the middle of SSBM...
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

How could you prefer Ness to Auron, my minion? He is easily my favorite FF character ever. Damn it, now I want to play FFX again, but I'm halfway through Kingdom Hearts already, AND I'm acquiring Fable on Thursday. There aren't enough hours in a day...sorry, Auron. I shall put up some wallpaper in your name.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Why would y ou like Ness if he was just some character in a Nintendo fighting game you never heard of?

*looks at final four of the Spring contest*

*mocks you*
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Auron's great, but I like Ness better. And I assure you I'm quite sane. :)

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

How could you prefer Ness to Auron, my minion? He is easily my favorite FF character ever. Damn it, now I want to play FFX again, but I'm halfway through Kingdom Hearts already, AND I'm acquiring Fable on Thursday. There aren't enough hours in a day...sorry, Auron. I shall put up some wallpaper in your name.

I just know this is going to get me Consume'd, but...

I don't have a PlayStation 2. I've been planning on buying one, if only for Disgaea and a few other games, but I haven't gotten around to it. And since I haven't played FFX beyond 3 minutes in the store, and I have played Earthbound all the way through and Ness was my favorite person to play in SSB, it is easy to see why I voted Ness.

>_> <_<

*runs*
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Auron's great, but I like Ness better. And I assure you I'm quite sane. :)

Lucid, even? But seriously, what is so great about Ness? I just don't get it. I don't disagree, I simply have no idea why people like him.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Convert to Sheik. No, not Zelda/Sheik...just Sheik, like I did.

Thank me later.

What's the point of playing with the best character? I play as Ness far more often in SSBM than in SSB, simply because he's way over-powered in the original, and playing as him makes it too easy. True, it would be better if he wasn't underpowered in SSBM, but it's still fun to whoop people who play with stronger characters with someone so weak.

On a totally unrelated note, I'm anxiously awaiting September 24th-26th. Capcom's lineup at TGS looks awesome and Square's 4 minute trailer of Advent Children.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

I think n00b Avenger meant that people had never heard of Ness, not that they hadn't heard of SSBM.
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Data for all matches - http://sc2k4.com/displaytable.php
SC2K4.com/Frog

I was thinking the same thing, creative.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

CONSUME'D

You really haven't played FFX? I kind of envy you, actually, because I'd love to have the experience of playing it for the first time all over again. And no Kingdom Hearts? No Disgaea? Dear Lord. NO XENOSAGA?
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Smitelf, I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that 34.69%+ of the voters are now insane. =P
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I think n00b Avenger meant that people had never heard of Ness, not that they hadn't heard of SSBM.

Yeah, quite obviously.
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The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

The major miss is...

No Devil May Cry? Get it, get it fast. ;)
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Smitelf, I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that 34.69%+ of the voters are now insane. =P

Ah, well, insane people are more fun. So long as there are enough sane people for Auron to win, I'm happy.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Ness is low on my character list, but at least I have some connection with him. (SSB/SSBM)

Auron though....
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

I hadn't noticed before, but Auron is dropping quite fast in percentage.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Lucid, even? But seriously, what is so great about Ness? I just don't get it. I don't disagree, I simply have no idea why people like him.

Well for one thing, he is a baseball wielding, big-headed kids with physchic powers. If you don't like that, I don't know what kind of drugs you are on. But aside from that, he apparently has some big stuff go on with his character in Earthbound. Having never played very far into Earthbound myself, I wouldn't know what exactly.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

You really haven't played FFX? I kind of envy you, actually, because I'd love to have the experience of playing it for the first time all over again. And no Kingdom Hearts? No Disgaea? Dear Lord. NO XENOSAGA?

I haven't actually played any PS2 games, to be more specific. Well except for a few times in the store and maybe once or twice at a friend's.

...Yeah. I'll get one eventually. O_o
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

I hadn't noticed before, but Auron is dropping quite fast in percentage.

It's okay, the night vote is fast approaching.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Wow Auron is really underperforming.
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46/46 points in sc2004
And yes I know my username is lame.

Yeah, it was obvious Ness would get the day vote.

The night vote might even things out.
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

Say ps2, did I ever mention that your user name is lame?
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I don't like baseball, and my brother is enough big-headed kid to last me a lifetime. Psychic powers are cool, though, I guess, but Mewtwo's are cooler. Oh well, he's not that bad, and he does deserve some recognition. I'm still not a big Earthbound fan, though...
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

... I do seem to like characters with psychic powers. Quite a few SC characters (Zeratul, Kerrigan, and Tassadar especially), Mewtwo, Ness, etc. =)
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Well as I said, he apparently has some sort of huge character... thing happen to him in Earthbound which makes him very likable and respectable.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Two more days and I can see how well Ryu will do.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

And everyone likes MewTwo since he is the epitome of cool.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Obviously, my own psychic powers outdo all others.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

And everyone likes MewTwo since he is the epitome of cool.

...well, he's as cool as any Pokemon could ever aspire to be...
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Two more days until I drop off the leaderboard. Isn't everyone happy?!

... I can't believe I didn't change back to Sonic. <_<
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Can you wipe out the entire universe by just thinking it? No? Well I've done it twice.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Hold out some hope for the Street Fighter. =) I know I am...
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Two more days until I drop off the leaderboard. Isn't everyone happy?!

... I can't believe I didn't change back to Sonic. <_<

OMFG! I thought you had Cloud winning for a second. You realize you could have singlehandedly wiped out my chances of winning this contest?!?! Thank god you chose Link. My upset special lives on. But so you know, you will be moving up to the top of the leaderboard in two days, not falling off.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Two more days and I can see how poorlyl Ryu will do.

Sorry, just caught that HM.
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Obviously, my own psychic powers outdo all others.

Not sure about you or Tassadar, to be honest. In terms of pure story power, he probably have exceeded her. He was supposedly capable of doing everything that Dark Templars could do, which would include things like bending light for permament cloaking. Heh.. Imagine a permamently cloaked High Templar that actually has an attack, as well.

*dies*
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Ryu has no chance. He'll fall just like he did in the past; to the 1-seed of the division 58-42.
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

smitelf, you have to play EarthBound. People have their own reasons for liking Ness, even those who have never played EB, such as Ulti. But to get a clear idea of what Ness is really like, you need to play EarthBound, and I mean seriously play it. I find that almost everyone on this board who played EarthBound and didn't like it never even got past the first town.

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Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

Ryu has no chance. He'll fall just like he did in the past; to the 1-seed of the division 58-42.

Oh Moltar. That's crazy. You're crazy.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

OMFG! I thought you had Cloud winning for a second. You realize you could have singlehandedly wiped out my chances of winning this contest?!?! Thank god you chose Link. My upset special lives on. But so you know, you will be moving up to the top of the leaderboard in two days, not falling off.

I actually put myself down as ineligible, so you would win the prize either way ;>_>.

Hold out some hope for the Street Fighter. =) I know I am...

If Tanner happened to be your favorite character (I wouldn't know why, but...) and he was facing, say, Sephiroth, you would still hold out hope.

XD


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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

You had Chief over Frog, and you call me crazy?!
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

Sorry, just caught that HM.

Hah. There's no way Ryu will do poorly in that match, and if by some odd happening he does expect some vented anger from myself. A win from that crappy hedgehog is bad enough.

Ryu has no chance. He'll fall just like he did in the past; to the 1-seed of the division 58-42.

55-45 or greater.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

I know picking an upset that was 7 votes away from paying off can only be attributed to drug addiction.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

The same drugs that could make you POSSIBLY not like Ness?

BTW, who's played Xenosaga and liked it, and what are your top 10 games? I'm seeing whether or not I should get it.
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

So true, it's like picking CATS over Link or Duke over Cloud. Craziness...

I mean, Frog owned the hell out of Chief, and everyone saw it coming. Well, everyone except YOU!

7 votes.....Frog was just too much...
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Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

*dies*

Precisely.

smitelf, you have to play EarthBound. People have their own reasons for liking Ness, even those who have never played EB, such as Ulti. But to get a clear idea of what Ness is really like, you need to play EarthBound, and I mean seriously play it. I find that almost everyone on this board who played EarthBound and didn't like it never even got past the first town.

I played it, actually. Can’t remember how far I got (I know I didn’t finish it) and I’ll admit that it was a hella long time ago (I was probably elevenish when I attempted to play it). Still, with all the awesome new games coming out, I doubt I’ll ever find the time to replay it, not to mention the fact that my brother has custody of the SNES at the moment (despite the fact that it's MINE, MINE I SAY!) I don't know how I went from owning two SNES consoles to none at all, but it involved purple crayons somehow.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

I thought that because Sonic looks like he is at 2002 levels and because Ryu looks to be at 2003 levels, it meant that any chance Ryu might've had was basically gone...
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Well in my defense, I was a bit overdosed on acid the day I made the pick, so I thought I was a carrot and my parents were evil bunny rabbits.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I thought that because Sonic looks like he is at 2002 levels and because Ryu looks to be at 2003 levels, it meant that any chance Ryu might've had was basically gone...

Nah, that's just what they want us to think. For all we know Terry just dropped.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I hate Earthbound with a passion. However, I like Ness a lot. I mean, come on. Cloud would be a lot cooler if he used a baseball bat for a weapon, and some sort of weird headache-inducing spell as magic. Or better yet, Crono. I fail to grasp what people like in him. I don't care if you can to 9999 to everyone in one hit, if you're not looking cool while doing it I won't care.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

I doubt I’ll ever find the time to replay it, not to mention the fact that my brother has custody of the SNES at the moment (despite the fact that it's MINE, MINE I SAY!) I don't know how I went from owning two SNES consoles to none at all, but it involved purple crayons somehow.

Don't hesitate, just EMULATE!!! YAAAAY!!!

*does cartwheel*

Goooo EMULATION!
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Ryu is the paragon of consistency. No way in hell is he coming close to a strong-looking Sonic.
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Nah, that's just what they want us to think. For all we know Terry just dropped.

SNK fans are a bit... fanatical, to say the least. Look at ChichiriMuyo. ;)

*runs*
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Cloud would be a lot cooler if he used a baseball bat for a weapon,

Nail Bat!
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Ryu is the paragon of consistency. No way in hell is he coming close to a strong-looking Sonic.

Until Wednesday.

*DUN Dun duuuuunnnnn*

Seriously though, Street Fighter Anniversary Collection could help a bit now.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

How can anyone hate EarthBound, one of the most innovative RPGs ever made? You make me sad.

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*is Lucid Faia*
Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

I thought that because Sonic looks like he is at 2002 levels and because Ryu looks to be at 2003 levels, it meant that any chance Ryu might've had was basically gone...

The only way we'll find out if he did is based on this match. There's no way to, for sure, tell if Sonic is at a 2002 level.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Yeah. I mean, PS2 Viewtiful Joe worked wonders, and he looks strong enough to take on Sonic himself!

<_<

>_>
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

Seriously though, Street Fighter Anniversary Collection could help a bit now.

I stressed that point long, long ago but few listened much like with MMAC. The only problem is I'd say it might be a little new.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

You had Chief over Frog, and you call me crazy?!

*BITES*

ha, sry, I know it wasn't directed at me, but I take happiness in knowing that my bracket was cut back three points thanks to 34 votes.

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Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

Yeah. I mean, PS2 Viewtiful Joe worked wonders, and he looks strong enough to take on Sonic himself!

Unlike the PS2 version, SFAC has been out for more than 2-3 days.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

Oh yeah, and Samus still has no chance against Cloud. Variation on fodder? Snake drew votes from Tanner because both were badass. Luigi drew votes from Pac Man for being both icons. Samus drew votes from Lara for both being females.
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Yeah. I mean, PS2 Viewtiful Joe worked wonders, and he looks strong enough to take on Sonic himself!

<_<

>_>

Didn't PS2 V. Joe come out a whole three days before the V. Joe/Tails match? SFAC has had a couple of weeks to sink in.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

well, if they were going to share a "female vote" how many people would vote for a suited samus over lara, based just on that, samus over cloud (or seph) would be perfect
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Today's Survivor topic can be found here, Please vote : )http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=16070956

BTW, who's played Xenosaga and liked it, and what are your top 10 games? I'm seeing whether or not I should get it.

*raises hand*

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Xenosaga Ep. 1: Der Wille Zur Macht
3. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
4. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
5. Starcraft
6. Baldur's Gate
7. Final Fantasy X
8. Kingdom Hearts
9. Super Mario Kart
10. Donkey Kong Country (better than DKC 2 because of nostalgic value)
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Ryu is the paragon of consistency. No way in hell is he coming close to a strong-looking Sonic.

Dante and his 4-seed believes otherwise. Yeah, he went up from 2k2 to 2k3 in the X-Stats but if you were facing Crono in the second round you would underperform too.
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Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

well, if they were going to share a "female vote" how many people would vote for a suited samus over lara, based just on that, samus over cloud (or seph) would be perfect

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>XD

And I only asked because I wanted to know what she'd have to get to make it seem like it wasn't a fluke that she looked capable of defeating Cloud. =/
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

Puh-lease. Just because Kefka and Magus got beat to holy hell doesn't mean Dante had the same sort of thing. After all, what kind of SFF would these two share?
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

After all, what kind of SFF would these two share?

Absolutely nothing.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

1. Planescape: Torment
2. Xenosaga Ep. 1: Der Wille Zur Macht
3. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
4. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
5. Starcraft
6. Baldur's Gate
7. Final Fantasy X
8. Kingdom Hearts
9. Super Mario Kart
10. Donkey Kong Country (better than DKC 2 because of nostalgic value)

Starcraft at only 5? List INVALIDATED! And you call yourself Queen ***** of the Universe... Pfft.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

well, if they were going to share a "female vote" how many people would vote for a suited samus over lara, based just on that, samus over cloud (or seph) would be perfect

Yeah because no one knows taht

METROID SPOILERS... BIG ONES.

Samus is a girl. Who's hot.
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Y'all know John Woo is making a Metroid movie tentatively scheduled for the end of 2006? <drools>
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Anxiously awaiting... SONIC vs. ryu

There doesn't have to be SFF. Q-Bert and Simon Belmont never came back to help me prove it, but I could see Dante underperforming against a good amount of people from Square/Nintendo/Megaman/Sonic, simply because he's not as mainstream as a lot of them. This may make no sense, but I just don't think Dante has the recognizability of a lot of other mid tier characters, and while he could beat Q-Bert and Ryo Hazuki easily.
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Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Starcraft at only 5? List INVALIDATED! And you call yourself Queen ***** of the Universe... Pfft.

The list fluctuates a bit. Starcraft can be anywhere between 2 and 6. Planescape: Torment is always on top, but the rest vary.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

Smitelf... damn... a western RPG type, are we? And Starcraft? I disagree with a lot of those. Do you think I would liek Xenosaga?
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Dear God no, not another franchise ruined by a movie!
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SC2K4 Status - Points: 050/052 - Matches: 40/42 - Rank: 00087/33221 - Today: Auron - Tomorrow: Sephiroth

There's a female vote on GameFAQs other than me?
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

I hurried up and sped read the last 4 pages so I could post my thoughts without being late.

You'd be surprised the games I haven't played. When I started college, I hit a brick wall in terms of gaming. My first couple of years, I stuck to my PS1 even though the PS2 lauched soonafter. Maybe that's why I'm such a huge fan of Vivi and Aya (PE1/2 and FFIX are in my top 5 games I have for PS2).

I finally got my PS2 two years ago and bought FFX and MGS2. But I just haven't played much. I JUST beat FFX at the beginning of the year and have barely touched MGS2. I bought DMC 2 years ago as well, but I'm JUST now starting to play it. I haven't played Xenosaga although I've beaten Xenogears multiple times. Mastered FF Tactics, haven't played Disgaea. My most played PS2 game is Marvel vs. Capcom 2 <_<.

My Gamecube gets much more play then my PS2. I'm trying to even it out this year, but I can't put down Viewtiful Joe <_<.
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"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Yeesh, Ness is still climbing. This is making Auron and especially Scorpion look pretty bad.
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Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

Smitelf... damn... a western RPG type, are we? And Starcraft? I disagree with a lot of those. Do you think I would liek Xenosaga?

Do you like a lot of story and character development, lots of cutscenes, and console-RPG style gameplay? If so, get Xenosaga. If not, don't. As far as the PC RPGs go, it's not my fault that Bioware makes such kickass games.
---
***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

This may make no sense, but I just don't think Dante has the recognizability of a lot of other mid tier characters,

Dante hung with Ryu, the fighting icon himself.
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SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

On the contrary, it's making Ness look good.

Okay, guys, we've seen two matches of Ness' now where he's far expected your expectations. I think it's time to admit that Ness is stronger than some of us originally gave him credit for, hm?

---
*is Lucid Faia*
Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

But lots of cutscenes... do you mean like, LOTS of cutscenes? Like, the first three hours of FFX cutscenes? If so, I probably won't be getting it. So far, FFX has been 10% gameplay, 90% being bullied around and watching Tidus grin unnaturally.
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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Okay, guys, we've seen two matches of Ness' now where he's far expected your expectations. I think it's time to admit that Ness is stronger than some of us originally gave him credit for, hm?

*mumble, grumble*
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

I expected Ness to beat Jak...

Today is a little surprise.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

I agree with Deflagratio.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

Today is the only day I've been surprised by what Ness has done.
---
SC2k4 Winner: Mega Man
Ken Masters; the fighting king clothed in blazing fire

What do you guys think the reason is for Viewtiful Joe's performance in this contest? I thought he would come in at the level of Dante. Is it because his game is newer than Dante's was in 2002? Is it the system he debuted on (GC vs. PS2)? Or is Dante as a character that much more popular than Viewtiful Joe would be on equal ground? I don't think I'm the only one that thought Joe would be near Dante's strength and give him a run for the sweet 16 spot....
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"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I agree with Deflagratio.

Call me Lucid.

*mumble, grumble*

Man, am I enjoying this.

---
*is Lucid Faia*
Cunning, Baffling, Powerful. Vigorous, irresistable. Dominating, Invincible. Overwhelming, Unquenchable.

therealmnm, I think HM thought the same thing...not too sure, but I think so.
---
I am teh suxx0rz. PWN'D by a n00b.
~courtesy of mr wednesday

But lots of cutscenes... do you mean like, LOTS of cutscenes? Like, the first three hours of FFX cutscenes? If so, I probably won't be getting it. So far, FFX has been 10% gameplay, 90% being bullied around and watching Tidus grin unnaturally.

If you can't stand FFX's cutscenes then please do not get Xenosaga. You'll be stabbing yourself in the face before you get to the good part (i.e. off the goddamn Woglinde). The cutscenes are spaced out better after the beginning, though there are still a few long ones.
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***Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04***
Official Queen ***** of the Universe! Contest Score: 50/52, Next Winner: Auron

That's quite a list of adjectives, brotha.

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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

Tails is just more known to the casual voter. Joe is....a hair above fodder. He could get out of Round 1 if he faced the right opponent.
---
Snake vs. Tanner - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Ness vs. Auron - Bracket: Auron - Vote: Ness (50/52)

What I'm saying is look at most of Dante's tier.

17 East 5 Bowser 30.97% 29.97% 5 0 3 2 1
18 West 5 Ryu 30.69% 29.70% 3 -2 3 2 1
19 West 10 Zelda 30.29% 29.32% 4 -6 2 2 0
20 East 8 Auron 28.73% 27.80% 6 -2 2 2 0
21 West 4 Dante 28.23% 27.32% 5 1 2 2 0
22 South 6 Alucard 27.56% 26.67% 5 -1 3 2 1
23 East 4 Yoshi 27.05% 26.17% 7 3 2 2 0
24 West 8 Knuckles the Echidna 26.47% 25.62% 6 -2 2 2 0
25 South 3 Kirby 26.34% 25.49% 6 3 2 2 0
26 East 3 Master Chief 26.15% 25.31% 8 5 2 2 0

Bowser, Zelda, Yoshi and Kirby all Nintendo. Auron Square. Knuckles Sega. Alucard, MC and Ryu had games in the summer contest that performed well. Dante had no games in the contest, doesn't have the Square/Nintendo name, and was the only one of the above characters who I could ask a friend to identify and I'd expect them not to now. I'm saying that perhaps Dante does better on characters like Ratchet, Ryo and Q-Bert then he would do on a comparably weak Nintendo/Square character.
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Man is equally incapable of seeing the nothingness from which he emerges and the infinity in which he is engulfed. -Blaise Pascal

Well, of course it's making Ness look good. But after people seriously started to consider Auron beating Tidus, this is somewhat of a wake up call that Auron isn't as strong as Scorp made him out to be. And I was behind Ness all the way.
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Current Pick: Auron; Current Vote: Ness; Points: 49/52

I am quite amazed at Dante's performance so far. I regret putting Tails above him...
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There was no nudity in Crono Trigger, there was nudity in Crono Cross, making it an overral better game.- Heroic Dr Wily

There's a female vote on GameFAQs other than me?

Alanna82?
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M-me? Queen ***** of the Universe?
This is the happiest day of my life. ~ smitelf

but then again
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
you never know...
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There was no nudity in Crono Trigger, there was nudity in Crono Cross, making it an overral better game.- Heroic Dr Wily

Okay, thanks... I'll be looking here again after I beat FFX and Kingdom Hearts.

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No, I've also seen what sports teams you like. You are clearly the one with poor taste. ~Leonhart4

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