12,500 posts and counting. Damn, we talk too much =)

Stats websites:

Everything you could ever imagine:
http://www.sc2k4.com

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html

Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html

Stats topics:

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html

Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)

2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.

Spring 2004 Pre-Season:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason3.htm

Spring 2004 Contest:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats3.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats4.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats5.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats6.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats7.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats8.htm

Summer 2004 Contest:
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14982623 (until purge)

!yawA tsoP
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

an early post in an Ultimaterializer topic? I'll take that!

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=15013899

mwa haahaha plugging my 500 topic.
---
5/24/04 6:56-6:57 PM #5 I helped LUE count to 10!!!

....You just overtook FF9 = FF6. Damn you, you..... you....

YOU!

;_;
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

......huh?
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

FF9 = FF6, 25 topics of it on FF9 social back in teh day. ;_;
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

Touching on something you mentioned in the other topic Ulti...

In the spring contest the BOP would be considered the "bracket we all discussed helping eachother to formulate," as this bracket was pretty much the board consensus on the tournament. With the exception of FFX v. SSB:M (and subsequently SSB:M taking FFX's place in the final four), the only thing the board misjudged was Starcraft, which could be said for virtually everyone. So going with the consensus is a smart thing to do. And don't go getting all high and mighty on us; SSB:M never put up more than 60% on anyone (and I don't believe it put up more than 53% excluding its first round match). Melee winning that division was a total crapshoot, and I believe that running that division five times would result in probably three or four different winners. We don't know how SFF would play out with Zelda, and, assuming Halo gather all fair votes, we do not know how Halo would have done against anyone in the division.

My real point, though, is that without us discussing who we think is going to win, and why we think some poll from 2.5 years ago sheds some light into these thoughts, there is nothing to discuss. I could stand here and shout from the mountain tops that Mega Man is going to win the whole thing (not referring to anyone in particular, of course), but unless I use some evidence to base that on, nobody will care. You are against putting forward this evidence, and it is my believe that without it I might as well not even know who Mega Man is.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): CATS, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, KOS-MOS, Gordon Freeman

503 post omg <_<
---
One day, I wanna be sigged. -PepsiPlunge
married to steinershocker on 06/22/04

Nice job to yoblazer33 for 503.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

With some research I've been doing, I can almost see for certain who wins the Ryu vs Jill match.

I hope you have Hayabusa or you lose. =)
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

At least 12,503 posts now.

Next time you people need to tell me when you're attempting a sametime post at 500. Although there IS that 4145 topic that got so many sametime posts it's not even funny...
---
http://wootables.net/forum/index.php
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=2685

502 post!
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

I could stand here and shout from the mountain tops that Mega Man is going to win the whole thing (not referring to anyone in particular, of course), but unless I use some evidence to base that on, nobody will care.

Hey, damn it I wrote an analysis. >=\
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

And the robot nabs 500.

So TRE, are you big on full-on tuneups, or are you the old-fashioned oil can type?
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Thanks TRE. Nice job with post 500 actually being relevant to the topic. ~__^
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Heh, HM I was not inferring you did not give basis for your belief; what I was trying to get across is that without some substance for a claim noone will care unless it borders on, or is, proven fact (i.e. Gordon Freeman would get 40-45% on BYE).
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): CATS, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, KOS-MOS, Gordon Freeman

502 post though? High-Five? Anyone? Fine.

Stupidest reason for Jill facing Ryu, Ryu got another Ninja Gaiden, and so he got recognition, and Jill is starring in the new Resident Evil, and that comes out in the summer, and Jills match I believe comes out before the end of the summer. Who knows, it could help.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

In the spring contest the BOP would be considered the "bracket we all discussed helping eachother to formulate," as this bracket was pretty much the board consensus on the tournament. With the exception of FFX v. SSB:M (and subsequently SSB:M taking FFX's place in the final four), the only thing the board misjudged was Starcraft, which could be said for virtually everyone. So going with the consensus is a smart thing to do. And don't go getting all high and mighty on us; SSB:M never put up more than 60% on anyone (and I don't believe it put up more than 53% excluding its first round match). Melee winning that division was a total crapshoot, and I believe that running that division five times would result in probably three or four different winners. We don't know how SFF would play out with Zelda, and, assuming Halo gather all fair votes, we do not know how Halo would have done against anyone in the division.

It's the smart thing to do, but it's also foolish for us to give out information that everyone else may not know about. This is a contest. The idea is to score higher than everyone else. Why sit there and help everyone else out if you feel that your reasoning is better than the next person? It does not make any sense.

And I'm not being high and mighty about SSBM. I'm sort of glad that Starcraft and SSBM did what they did, because it shut down all of these people who come to the board and base their picks on the majority opinion. I don't care if it's selfish, the fact of the matter is that with the current state of this board, any random idiot could look at the BOP and instantly become an elite bracketmaker while the rest of us sat here and did all of the work. And I don't buy the theory that people who don't come here don't win, either. People may not post here, but I guarantee they get information that helps them due to people being so willing and free to tell everyone else what their bracket says.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Jill is starring in the new Resident Evil

No she's not.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Two things: First, Jovavic's character from the first movie is starring in the sequel; from everything I've read Jill plays a glorified sidekick. Two, and more importantly, the movie will not be out until mid-October, which means the trailer is all she will have to inflate her status (how much a movie can inflate a video game character's status is anyone's guess). Do we know anything about Ryu H? Well, not in terms of performance, and the thing is whoeever wins that match will, most likely, win the next match. So it really is a three-point pick. I am willing to wager my three points on the unproven ninja than on the somewhat proven undead slayer.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): CATS, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, KOS-MOS, Gordon Freeman

Oh a movie? Sheesh. >>
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Fine, Co-staring. But still, that at least says she is still doing something.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

The only movie that could possibly help a character(s) would be Cloud and or Sephiroth from Advent Children.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Yeah, well, they don't need help. Now a Megaman movie... I can see people vomiting in it's glory.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

Hey, I'll open up a new topic which has been burning at me since the first contest. I KNOW it's been discussed countless times but I still can't get over it.

Exactly WHY is Sephiroth so popular a character, outside of looking cool and carrying a long sword? Other than that, I truly think he is riding the coattails of Cloud and Final Fantasy VII's popularity as a whole. I know this is just opinion but I still don't see it.

Sephiroth has got to be the most empty villain ever! I know I saw someone say that before in the discussion from last year or the year before. I just grow tired of people citing quotes like "I'm going to see my mother" and "I am becoming one with the planet" like they actually MEAN something. The ONLY point at which Sephiroth showed ANY character is BEFORE he became psycho (i.e. when he was in the basement discovering his past and actually TALKING to his then idol Cloud on the truck). Other than that, the only thing he has going for him is carrying a long sword and looking cool walking through flames. I have a lot more to say about that, but this is just MY opinion. I admit I am staying one sided. I do like him to an extent, but not as the 3rd best character OVERALL.... I just want to hear more from both sides.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

"People may not post here, but I guarantee they get information that helps them due to people being so willing and free to tell everyone else what their bracket says."

I got 59/63 matches correct entirely on my own, and I already made my bracket for the "Summer" Contest, which I don't plan on changing, on my own as well.

I also happen to disagree with lots of things that are considered "obvious" posted in these topics.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

Sephiroth is the quintessential bad-ass. He has the look, he has the weapon, and he has the attitude. His total disregard for others and means by which expressing that disregard is what makes him such a great character. Is he the best villain ever? Personally I think Luca Blight is everything Sephiroth, except more, but that is personal preference.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): CATS, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, KOS-MOS, Gordon Freeman

I agree that he has the looks and the weapon. He does NOT have the attitude. His LOOKS have attitude. But his CHARACTER doesn't. KEFKA has attitude, BOWSER has attitude, MOST arch-villains have more attitude than Sephiroth. Sephiroth had the potential to be a superior villain, but it wasn't fulfilled. He didn't disregard others, he simply didn't interract with them. Now that I think about it, Sephiroth had barely ANY interractions with anyone other than Cloud. Add in his empty quotes and I see there was a lot of room for improvement in his character.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Well, when the main character of the game is a fanboy of the main villain, you can assume that the fans of the game will do the same. Sephiroth's popularity stems from a variety of things, from his FMV appearances (including the Spoiler Heard Round the World) to his physical appearance, to the One Winged Angel theme. Sephy is the very essence of style. Unlike other villains, he's a constant presence throughout the entire game. After Midgar, the entire game is about chasing after "Sephy". He's a hands-on villain, unless you subscribe to the JENOVA-roth theory.

That said, he's not that great of a villain in my eyes.
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

Just to try and make Ulti rest in peace... I'm predicting DK will cause an absolute rampage on the BOP predictions. Jill beating Hayabusa would be even more devastating, but... oh, and let's not forget a possible Mario hat-trick against Crono. Or Cloud losing to Sephy.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I forgot to add in.... Sephiroth has EVERYTHING going for him EXCEPT himself. Popular game, popular hero against him, cool looks, cool weapon, COOL MUSIC. But his development as a villain was bad.

I just thought of something. Can you imagine a Bowser vs. Mario final battle with a choir singing in Latin (or whatever language it was) about Bowser, say on an island surrounded by a pit of fire? How great do you think that would be over the current Mario games? I'm just saying that to point out all the things on the outside that Sephiroth has going for him.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I played FFVII, but got board after the first disk, and in that time, Sephiroth was nothing special. Oh, I burned a village, killed *SPOILER* and the ShinRa president, fear me, I am transexual! My daddy is a wussy that knocked up Vincent's dream woman, fear me! Your a puppet, I am just an idiot who says this, fear me!
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

That music was Austrian.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

lol, okay I admit that spoiler is the one "interaction" that Sephiroth has going for him..... ;)
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

How do you make that damned ruler at the top of Word stay at the width you want it to? It keeps going back tpo default.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

???
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

My top 4 toughest matches:
1. Vivi/DK
2. Vyse/Laharl
3. Tails/Joe
4. Mario/Crono
---
-----
-------

Tails isn't strong enough to win.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

The hardest match is Jak/Ness. I'm pretty certain of all the other ones, but I still don't know where to go with these two...
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Using 4 points for first, 3 for second, 2 for third, 1 for fourth, and pretending it's some sort of exact science, the thread has generated the following ranking:

20 Mario vs Crono
10 Tidus vs Shadow
10 Ryu H. vs Jill
7 DK vs Vivi
6 Ness vs Jak
5 Vyse vs Laharl
5 Joe vs Dante
5 Tails vs Joe
3 Luigi vs Yoshi
3 Link vs Cloud
2 Ganondorf vs Alucard
1 Cloud vs Sephiroth
1 Frog vs Master Chief
---
-----
-------

2 Ganondorf vs Alucard
Urge to destroy world...rising...
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

1. Mario vs. Crono
2. Tidus vs. Shadow
3. Ness vs. Jak
4. Link vs. CATS
Actual 4. Link vs. Cloud

Those are the four hardest for me anyway...
---
BtT: 4:20.83 | HRC: 42,085.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

Is Joe really even that popular though? Sure, people like the game but do they actually like him more than Tails? From what I remember, Viewtiful Joe still did have lackluster sales and the casual vote should go to Tails.

Then again, those casuals also are keeping me scared for the Jak vs Ness match.
---
Happiness is like peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you feel it's warmth.

You know, I'm really starting to think less of the so-called fact that the casual vote doesn't exist anymore. Yes, 17,500 votes on average were lost per poll in the spring after the layout change. But by the end of the contest, word of it spread all over the internet. We're currently in the summer, and I firmly believe that while we'll never hit 2003 numbers again, we won't be sitting here getting 75,000 votes per poll either. I think that we'll see around 90k to start, and 120k or so by the time all is said and done.

And take a wild guess as to which match I feel will be the cutoff line between lackluster voting and massive internet spamming.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Um... Link vs. Yoshi? ;) Hey, in a way, it IS one half of the cutoff line!
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Heh.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Tidus vs. Shadow
Yoshi vs Luigi
Ryu H. vs Jill
Ness vs. Jak
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

It's the smart thing to do, but it's also foolish for us to give out information that everyone else may not know about. This is a contest. The idea is to score higher than everyone else. Why sit there and help everyone else out if you feel that your reasoning is better than the next person? It does not make any sense.

Then why the **** are you even here? Oh, that's right-so you can see everybody else's opinions on the tough matches, while giving nothing back to us.

Jesus Christ, grow up. This is a discussion topic. None of us here aside from you expect to win the contest.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

www.ohnoes.org
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

24 Mario vs Crono
17 Tidus vs Shadow
12 Ryu H. vs Jill
9 Ness vs Jak
7 DK vs Vivi
6 Luigi vs Yoshi
5 Vyse vs Laharl
5 Joe vs Dante
5 Tails vs Joe
4 Link vs Cloud
2 Ganondorf vs Alucard
1 Cloud vs Sephiroth
1 Frog vs Master Chief

Anyone else feel free to submit top 4 toughest matches. I won't update this chart until I think everyone else has submitted their top 4, so as not to be anymore annoying than I already am.

The poll is in the weakest possible place, within reasonable placement options. I don't see it improving its numbers unless it gives the eye a recognizable character to be drawn to.
---
-----
-------

And I've given plenty back. Sift through some of the topics, and you'll see that I've pretty much told everyone how most of the matches will end up. Thus, you are just one more person looking to take a cheap shot at me without actually knowing anything. Mission accomplished on that end, at least.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Why Link vs Cloud is that low on the list is beyond me.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

That said, I believe the toughest matches of the contest are...

1. Mario vs. Crono, without a doubt. I might as well flip a nickel for this one.

2. Link vs. Cloud. Does the so-called anti-repeat factor actually exist? That'll be the deciding factor in this match...

3. Tidus vs. Shadow. Hated Final Fantasy character versus a Sonic character who may or may not have overperformed against Mario last year.

4. Luigi vs. Yoshi...go ahead and laugh. I am having an extremely difficult time with this one. :/
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

And just to show my gratitude, I'll go right ahead and tell you that Yoshi will win that match.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Personally, i think we'll still be ten thousand votes down easily. We never broke the 100,000 vote barrier in the spring contest at all after the format changed. Honestly, 17,500 votes is a pretty huge percentage of the total during that contest. - we are talking 20 percent easily.

Yeah, there will be some recovery, but i have not seen anything that suggests that it will recover more than half of that loss, which means we will be missing thousands upon thousands of votes. And who knows? It could very well have caused a demographic tilt just large enough to throw off (albeit slightly) a good number of our results from last year.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

And just to show my gratitude, I'll go right ahead and tell you that Yoshi will win that match.

I dunno...part of me tells me that Yoshi's fan-favorite status will allow him to take the match, while another part tells me that SFF will favor Luigi...it boggles the mind, I tell ye.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

*rolls footage*

Squall Leonhart 60.21% 69958
Luigi 39.79% 46232
TOTAL VOTES 116190

Bowser 56.34% 55510
Yoshi 43.66% 43021
TOTAL VOTES 98531

Yoshi should have scored less than Luigi due to SFF, but didn't. Game over.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Actually I think that the lowest vote total (most likely Vyse vs. Laharl) will be 80 000 votes
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

*rolls footage*

Squall Leonhart 60.21% 69958
Luigi 39.79% 46232
TOTAL VOTES 116190

Bowser 56.34% 55510
Yoshi 43.66% 43021
TOTAL VOTES 98531

Yoshi should have scored less than Luigi due to SFF, but didn't. Game over.

Look at the vote totals if Bowser vs. Yoshi had the same votes Yoshi would've got 50729 votes
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Updated Guru List:

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - Bananaquest
66 - Lone Saiyajin
67 - Aeon Azuran
68 - Fett0001
79 - Fantusta
70 - Dilated Chemist
71 - BFitz310
72- ChichiriMuyo
73 - Lucid Faia
74 - HaRRicH
75 - MMXcalibur
76 - Captain Roy Falcon
77 - franmars
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Especially with Link v Cloud having so many points one the line. Maybe 'the experts' are down on Link after Summer 03 and this Spring?
---
-----
-------

Actually I think that the lowest vote total (most likely Vyse vs. Laharl) will be 80 000 votes

Well, the lowest vote total in 2003 was 91278. having only 80000 voters in a given match would be a huge voter loss.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

The only movie that could possibly help a character(s) would be Cloud and or Sephiroth from Advent Children.

Why the **** would Advent Children help Cloud or Sephiroth? It's not like it's introducing them to a new audience at all, the only people who are going to see Advent Children are people who are already fans of FFVII. There is no reason, at all for anyone else to see Advent Children. I'd bet on a re-release of the Super Mario Bros movie helping Bowser before Advent Children helping Cloud and Sephiroth.

As for four most difficult...

1-Mario vs. Crono
2-Ness vs. Jak
3-Link vs. Cloud
4-HK-47 vs. Sora

You know if Cloud vs. Link only got 120 000 votes (which this years looks like it could happen) Link would've lost with only 3864 votes so less vote totals = Better chance of a rematch to have the loser win.
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Why the **** would Advent Children help Cloud or Sephiroth? It's not like it's introducing them to a new audience at all, the only people who are going to see Advent Children are people who are already fans of FFVII.

Send that back to last year, replacing Advent Children with Kingdom Hearts...all will be answered then!
---
From this day forth, I shall work with my brothers, Smiling Spoon and Indifferent Knife, and shall let no possible peril hinder my path toward true justice!!

Well, the lowest vote total in 2003 was 91278. having only 80000 voters in a given match would be a huge voter loss.

I know that, but I expect that the first few matches will have much less voters then from last year
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

But KH was a game distinct from the whole FF world. The FF characters in there were just guest starring if you will. I bet that a decent amount of people bought the game because of disney and not square.

I don't highly doubt that many did get KH for Disney stuff...however, how many of them visited this site? Not too many more than were already visiting for other reasons, I would imagine...

More evidence of this can be found in KH's shoddy performance in the last contest, as with Sora's flop last year...
---
From this day forth, I shall work with my brothers, Smiling Spoon and Indifferent Knife, and shall let no possible peril hinder my path toward true justice!!

Send that back to last year, replacing Advent Children with Kingdom Hearts...all will be answered then!

The problem is that Kingdom Hearts appeals to everyone, not just FF fans. As I recall, it sold better than FFX did, and to a largely different audience. Care to give me a prediction on how many copies Advent Children will sell to people who aren't FF fans?

More than you might imagine, I'd expect...there will likely be a lot of would-be FF fans that will watch it based on commercials/previews and the like...
---
From this day forth, I shall work with my brothers, Smiling Spoon and Indifferent Knife, and shall let no possible peril hinder my path toward true justice!!

I don't think KH sold more than FFX. I'm looking at US Sales data and the difference is minor (FFX = 2.0 mil vs KH=1.98 mil). I do agree about the different audience thing though.

Meh, I don't mind sharing my opinion since I have no chance to win, Ulti. Mind you, I'm still intending to put an upset or two in my bracket ;) I'm probably going to have Sephiroth winning it all...it's his turn, damn it.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

More evidence of this can be found in KH's shoddy performance in the last contest, as with Sora's flop last year...

Please don't tell me that yet another person is trying to deny how big an impact KH had on the contest last year.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Advent Children I can't really see attracting anyone who hasn't played final fantasy vii. Kingdom Hearts probably marketed a lot more people with Disney, I can't say all of them, but Final Fantasy characters weren't even in the commercials were they? Kingdom Hearts did so well and factored into the contest because it introduced new gamers to new characters. Advent Children I suspect just won't do that, unless it really has some outstanding preview.
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Phediuk:
I dunno...part of me tells me that Yoshi's fan-favorite status will allow him to take the match, while another part tells me that SFF will favor Luigi...it boggles the mind, I tell ye.

I dunno... I'm a big Mario fan (just check my contributor page), but I don't see Yoshi as a fan favourite at all, more an irritating distraction required to complete Mario World properly. IMO, Luigi's the better character.
---
Jon Thomson - final score : 138/192
Nominate Ridley for Summer Contest 2005

I'm a huge Mario fan myself and Yoshi is a fan favorite. He has that match won.

As for the Advent Children it is something that is going to give Cloud and Sephiroth a boost no matter how small. It won't be another KH that's guaranteed, but given how many hype the movie gets everytime a new trailer is released I don't have a doubt it'll help them. However, it won't matter as the new Zelda kills the movie. Whenever the new Zelda game comes out Link wins and if that happens to be in June 2005 like expected then AC won't even matter.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Squall Leonhart 60.21% 69958
Luigi 39.79% 46232
TOTAL VOTES 116190

Man, I never get tired of seeing that result. That was the best day I've ever had on this board. Mass hysteria, outrage, and the "Take that, nanasilencer!" topic. I can never remember the name of the user who made that one though.

This is the first time that Squall actually has a match where there isn't any doubt as to the outcome. Just out of curiosity, how badly will he beat Bomberman and Kirby? Then can he manage to get over 30% against Cloud?
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

38.4% as the prediction percentage is awfully high for such an upset...
---
Hellfire Knight of the <<Official** Sephiroth Army>>
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1655 - Remember that day...

For this year, neither Advent Children nor the new Zelda game will make much of an impact. I doubt that anything not currently in existence will have an effect on voting.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

For this year, neither Advent Children nor the new Zelda game will make much of an impact

Agreed.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

This is the first time that Squall actually has a match where there isn't any doubt as to the outcome. Just out of curiosity, how badly will he beat Bomberman and Kirby? Then can he manage to get over 30% against Cloud?

Squall would get 65% against Bomberman and 58% against Kirby (Yes Kirby now beats Jill) and as of 2003 he would get 30.70% against Cloud (without SFF)
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

okay, might as well stick this up here before I'm off for the evening:

32 Mario vs Crono
19 Tidus vs Shadow
12 Ryu H. vs Jill
12 Ness vs Jak
9 Link vs Cloud
7 DK vs Vivi
7 Luigi vs Yoshi
5 Vyse vs Laharl
5 Joe vs Dante
5 Tails vs Joe
2 Ganondorf vs Alucard
1 Cloud vs Sephiroth
1 Frog vs Master Chief
1 HK-47 vs Sora
---
-----
-------

I do think that Luigi vs. Yoshi is at least somewhat up in the air.

Firstly, the difference between the two is pretty small. Even though neither character is likely to have changed noticeably in popularity, it is within a margin of error.

Also, Cloud vs. Bowser might be affecting results. We all know that blowouts aren't as reliable for the extrapolated standings. I do not think that Yoshi's ranking is entirely reliable.

But is Yoshi overestimated by the Cloud vs. Bowser blowout, or underestimated by it?

The best case I can make for Luigi is this: Bowser over-performed against Cloud due to Cloud/FF7 anti-votes, and possibly a stable Nintendo fanbase that won't let a Nintendo mainstay like Bowser do too poorly. This, in turn, trickled down to help Yoshi's ranking. This effect would not have needed to be that big at all in order to put Luigi above Yoshi.

But, it's entirely possible Bowser actually underperformed against Cloud. It was a blowout. That simple fact makes the slight difference between Luigi and Yoshi unreliable for forecasting that match definitively.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

I'm taking Luigi. I know I'm probably letting my personal preferences get in the way, but the chances of an upset are at least out there if everything falls in the right place.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Megaman is the only one of the greats who has the extra boost to win it all!
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

I do know the fanbase prefers Yoshi over Luigi so we'll have to see what other factor plays in. I would imagine it being close, but at the same time I can't see Yoshi losing.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

The best case I can make for Luigi is this: Bowser over-performed against Cloud due to Cloud/FF7 anti-votes,

If there is anti-votes for Cloud then it shouldn't matter since Cloud won the contest therefor Link should have gain from the anti-votes and like you said it trikle down to Luigi so that factor wouldn't matter since both characters would get abot the same thing
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I do know the fanbase prefers Yoshi over Luigi so we'll have to see what other factor plays in. I would imagine it being close, but at the same time I can't see Yoshi losing.

Didn't you say that in the Bowser vs. Yoshi match last year?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I think Yoshi is gonna win. I don't know exactly why I do, I just feel it. =P
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Didn't you say that in the Bowser vs. Yoshi match last year?

Yes I did and it was a truthful statement, but those other factors stopped Yoshi from winning. The Mario fanbase prefers it: Mario > Yoshi > Luigi. Now, that is far from a definite reason for Yoshi's victory over Luigi but Yoshi didn't exactly do terribly against Bowser either.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

If there is anti-votes for Cloud then it shouldn't matter since Cloud won the contest therefor Link should have gain from the anti-votes and like you said it trikle down to Luigi so that factor wouldn't matter since both characters would get abot the same thing

I meant anti-votes in terms of a small amount of fans who won't vote for Cloud/FF7.

Perhaps there is a portion of the site that won't vote FF7 no matter what. This might inflate the performance of non-FF7 characters in matches that aren't close. It wouldn't affect Link vs. Cloud since that's a heavyweight match, and also those people would probably be voting Link anyway.

Thing is, I have nothing to support this--just take a look at CATS. He would've been expected to get 13.3% on Link in 2K2; he only got 13.09% against Cloud in 2K3. That right there could've been an indication that Cloud had jumped big time, but no one picked up on it (at least to my knowledge), because for one not too many people besides myself paid attention to the extrapolated standings at the time, and I msyelf had totally dismissed the extrapolated method by that point due to Jill vs. Squall. Also, you can't judge too much from total blowouts like that (though this one actually ended up being eerily accurate--it implied Cloud getting 51% against Link).

And you would figure CATS would perform better against Cloud than against Link simply because of Cloud anti-votes, even if Cloud was stronger than Link.

So, the evidence is very much against my idea that Bowser overperformed against Cloud due to anti-votes. But I still think there's some doubt in this match, because again, Yoshi's ranking is dependent on Cloud vs. Bowser, and one can definitely see that match's results being off by a couple percent for whatever reason.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

I think Cloud and Sephiroth do suffer from a small amount of anti-votes each match. The majority of them come right at the very beginning of the match though. Remember, CATS led very briefly at the start last year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Alright, strangely enough, after all that I just ended up convincing myself to put Yoshi in my bracket :\

Looking at the CATS thing, perhaps the extrapolated rankings can be more accurate in blowouts than I suspected.

I still hope Luigi wins, but at least this way I won't lose both bracket wise and rooting wise if Luigi loses.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

The extrapolated rankings assume linearity and transitivity to be true. What would happen if transitivity wasn't true for several of the characters?

Alright, I'll give my final thoughts on Hayabusa vs Jill, and then you guys can go whichever way you will.

Here is a notable stat on 3/4 of Jill Valentine's matches:

Summer 2003 - North Round 1 - (11) Jill Valentine - 38274
Summer 2002 - South Round 2 - (3) Jill Valentine - 37828
Summer 2002 - South Round 1 - (3) Jill Valentine - 37539

See those vote totals? Whether she won or lost, she kept producing the same output. I see no reason why she would be able to all of a sudden put forth a higher vote total again Ryu Hayabusa instead of Kirby or Bomberman. But that being said, there is the other side of all of this to look at:

Summer 2003 - North Round 1 - (6) Squall [59.99%] vs (11) Jill Valentine [40.01%] - 19.98%
Summer 2003 - North Round 2 - (6) Squall [60.21%] vs (3) Luigi [39.79%] - 20.42%

If Ryu Hayabusa was in a direct match with Luigi, none of us would take more than two seconds to pick Luigi. But lookie here, Jill Valentine outperformed him against a common opponent. The match between Jill and Ryu will come down to whether or not Jill overperformed against Squall due to her being the board favorite in the match. I have my mind dead set on which side I'm going with in this match, but you have to admit that each possibility is rather interesting to look at. Do you go with the fact that her vote total may remain stagnant, or do you put stock into Jill doing better than Luigi against a similar opponent last year? It's a tough choice.

There is of course one other little fact, but I'm keeping that to myself ~_^
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

The extrapolated rankings assume linearity and transitivity to be true. What would happen if transitivity wasn't true for several of the characters?

But transitivity has never so much as even been challenged as an assumption ;)

The only time people speculate about it not holding is reverse-SFF, which is a load of BS IMO. We've never been given the slightest hint of transitivity not holding.

The closest thing to challenge it is Starcraft. Wind Waker might beat SSBM, even though it lost to the game that SSBM beat. But those games are so close in the standings it wouldn't really hurt the transitivity assumption, since simple randomness could push one over the other, even if Starcraft wasn't an anomaly.

SFF violates the linearity assumption, but nothing has yet violated transitivity.

As for reverse SFF, let me say that if Luigi beats Yoshi you might see a bunch of people screaming "reverse SFF!!", but I totally do not think that would be the case. One does not need to bring in reverse SFF to have Luigi beat Yoshi.

The same with Sephiroth vs. Cloud. If Sephiroth beats Cloud, you'll see people saying reverse SFF and anti-champion votes. These things are totally unnecessary for explaining Sephiroth defeating Cloud, if it happens.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

If Ryu Hayabusa was in a direct match with Luigi, none of us would take more than two seconds to pick Luigi.

I would not hesitate at all to put Ryu Hayabusa over Luigi. This, despite my fanboyism towards Luigi.

you go with the fact that her vote total may remain stagnant

Vote totals have never been relevant; there's plenty of evidence that states that. Only the %es have ever mattered.

or do you put stock into Jill doing better than Luigi against a similar opponent last year?

I'd say Jill vs. Luigi would be a toss-up.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

Why so quick to take Ryu H in that match?
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I see. In the case of Starcraft, there was speculation of cheating involved. There was evidence of it in the WW match. That might have been the cause of the anomalous performance of Starcraft.

I'm sure CJayC went out of his way to look for cheaters in the Wind Waker vs Starcraft match. People just fail to realize how strong Starcraft's fanbase is. Expect it to dominate next year when it also gets the support of the bracket voters.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

I'm sure CJayC went out of his way to look for cheaters in the Wind Waker vs Starcraft match. People just fail to realize how strong Starcraft's fanbase is. Expect it to dominate next year when it also gets the support of the bracket voters.

Well said. I fully expect to see Starcraft as a 2 or 3 seed next year. The issue will come from whether or not the brackets are split by era again. If not, then Starcraft may be two and done next year when it goes up against a powerhouse in the third round.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Geezus christ! There have been around 300 posts since this time yesterday. You guys are unbelievable... As for my top 4 toughest matches to call

1 (tie) Crono-Mario and Sonic-Samus: Come on, you all know it, these are absolute coin flips. The tiniest random variation could push one over the other in both matches. If you want me to rank one match over the other in terms of difficulty, then put Sonic-Samus over Crono-Mario only because the margin was 34 votes, the smallest ever, but otherwise these are both #1 toughest to pick matches
3. Link-Cloud
4. Sora-Ryu Hayabusa

Why so quick to take Ryu H in that match?

Why would I put Ryu over Jill but not Luigi? Luigi is no powerhouse (unfortunately). We've already known that Luigi is on the same level as Tommy V., Jill, Donkey Kong, Scorpion, etc. I don't see Ryu losing to any of these guys.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

i think MC vs Sam fisher would be tough to predict
---
If you're worried people are talking about you... you're probably right.

I'd have to take Hayabusa over Luigi as well.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Jill is going to beat Ryu, then HK, then lose to Samus! Then Megaman shall own Link!
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

Then Megaman shall own Link!

I agree with that one part.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

hmm, did anyone else's text just get really big? I haven't changed my viewings since earlier...odd...

As for Yoshi vs Luigi, being the huge Yoshi fan I am, there's no way I'm not putting Yoshi to win.
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Top 4 Hardest Matches to Call:
1. Ness vs. Jak
2. Ryu H. vs. Jill
3. Tidus vs. Shadow
4. Tails vs. Joe
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Sonic is teh ubah!!! YOU WILL DIE SAMUS!!!

*burns all the Metroid games and puts up a framed picture of Sonic*
---
Character Battle III-Link Vs Cloud? (0-0) (Points)
Elite Eight-TBD

Squall 57392
Jill Valentine 38274

Squall 69958
Luigi 46232

Luigi got a lot more votes than Jill did. Seems whenever Jill is in a poll, the vote totals arn't high. A difference of roughly 20,000.
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

Square vs. Nintendo accounted for most of that. Either way, I think Jill's popularity is fading fast. It's a clear fact that boobies just don't cut it now like they did in 2002. If she loses to Hayabusa with anywhere under 46%, it'll be yet another sign that TJF is on the way out.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Squall-Luigi was one of the most popular polls in contest history. Squall-Jill was right around the average for the summer contest last year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Next time you people need to tell me when you're attempting a sametime post at 500. Although there IS that 4145 topic that got so many sametime posts it's not even funny...


That wasn't same time posts... that was because the boards glitched, and didnt close the topic at 500... so it kept going.
---
5/24/04 6:56-6:57 PM #5 I helped LUE count to 10!!!

Funny how everyone is so quick to put the untested Ryu over the Green Machine. Sounds like the same people that put Luigi over Squall last year, truth be told...

Not that I don't have Ryu winning his four-pack, but it'll be an Alucard style Sweet 16 appearance at best. I'm kind of anticipating a flop now, what with all the Luigi and Kefka-esque hype for the new guy.

Though, I suppose I'm guilty of the same thing, as I have Frog making it fairly far into the contest...
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

I do agree that Squall vs Luigi was one of the highest coting polls,but Jill's polls are below average.

Squall vs Jill 95666 total votes
Ranked 26 in total votes In Round 1
Gordon Freeman vs Max Payne 91278 total votes

Only 4000 votes from tying Gordon Freeman's match


---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

*voting not coting
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

Well, I'm done checking over my bracket, and the only matches I'm questioning are Jak/Ness and Vivi/DK. =)
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Sonic-Samus isn't very difficult to call. Samus beat Sonic two years ago, and since then Samus has had a HUGE boost in popularity (well maybe not huge, but Prime, Fusion and Zero Mission certainly helped) whereas Sonic has had... Sonic Heroes, which got a lot of crap thrown at it.

Sonic is fading away from the noble nine. Samus is not.
---
BtT: 4:20.83 | HRC: 42,085.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

I don't think that the total votes matter much in terms of those two polls. Squall was going to beat Luigi 60-40 that day no matter how many votes came in.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I wouldn't hesistate to take Ryu over Luigi also. But then again, I still have the original Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden Nintendo cartridges sitting right here... so I may be slightly biased.... I still remember the day I got Ninja Gaiden 2 from the mall....

I feel pretty good about my bracket for the first two rounds. I've already spoken about all the close matches to some extent. There are matches after that that will make or break brackets, but that's expected for everyone. I think I will take Ulti's stance and lean back, lean back, lean back..... lol


---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

The later matches were actually easier for me to predict...
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Actually, Sonic and Samus both decreased in strength last year, according to the extrapolated, though the Blue Blur dropped further. Of course, if you believe the West Division Factor and take it into account, Samus increased slightly while Sonic decreased slightly. The difference still isn't very large.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

If people believe Solid Snake would beat Sonic, no question, I don't see a reason to doubt Samus.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Vivi vs Luigi
Vivi vs Ryu

Not that these are going to happen, but who would you suspect would win?
---
-----
-------

I would take Vivi to beat Luigi, but not Ryu, if you mean the one from Street Fighter. If you mean Hayabusa, then I would.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

I still think DK might upset Vivi
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

as do I tyranus

if this were vivi vs vercetti, well it would be less contested I think, but vivi really could flop, and I don't think dk's all that weak myself
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Donkey Kong isn't weak, but he is by no means strong. I picked Vivi from day one, and I've never doubted that he will win.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

I'm going with Vivi over Donkey Kong as well.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

I'd take Luigi, Hayabusa, AND Jill over Vivi, to be honest. In addition to DK, that is.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Speaking of which... was Vivi in Kingdom Hearts?
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

What is this topic saying about the Sora vs Hayabusa match?
---
Happiness is like peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you feel it's warmth.

Sora would get smashed by Jill. Imagine if Hayabusa tops Jill, now.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

No, Vivi wasn't from what I'm aware.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Oh-kay... things just got from bad to worse for Vivi. How could one make me buy that Vivi = Squall prior to the KH boost is beyond me.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

why are people discussing Luigi vs. Yoshi? did Tidus vs. Shadow get boring?

not only will Luigi get handled by Yoshi, but he will have his hands full getting past Pac-Man.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Not necessarily his hands full, but it ought to be the DRS in the Prophet Challenge.

And Yoshi is going to take Luigi back to school, I don't know why people are even doubting this.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Vivi wasn't in Kingdom Hearts, but there were mages that damned sure looked like him. It's the Black Mage factor, I tell ye! =)
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Not necessarily his hands full, but it ought to be the DRS in the Prophet Challenge.

exactly. i'm pretty confident that Luigi can't lose this one, but it will be closer than Ganondorf vs. Alucard.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Not necessarily his hands full, but it ought to be the DRS in the Prophet Challenge.

And Yoshi is going to take Luigi back to school, I don't know why people are even doubting this.

Wham, bam, thank you ma'am.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

Plus Alucard/Ganon is Round 1, Luigi/Yoshi is Round 2, making it the perfect DRS. Unless MMX buys into the Magus upsetting Crono possibility... which I totally don't.
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

Unless MMX buys into the Magus upsetting Crono possibility... which I totally don't.

I suspect Magus will keep it plenty respectable, but there is no doubt in my mind that Crono will win it.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

Hey, can somebody show me how the extrapolated percentages from last year would result in these following matches...

Luigi VS Scorpion (thinkin' Luigi?)
Alucard VS Bowser (thinkin' Bowser)
Kirby VS Master Chief (thinkin' Kirby is ranked higher, but I think MC would win if they battled today)
Dante VS Zero (pretty sure Zero, but I wanna see how close this is)

I just got to pondering over those matches for no real reason, and I know neither the site where I can obtain the rankings nor the mathematical formula to obtain the estimated percentages in a match.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

There are the extrapolated rankings:

http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k3_extrapolated.htm
http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k2_extrapolated.htm
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
Fight Mega Man, for everlasting peace!

Wow. This topic was on page 3. Better bump it.
---
Nominate Geno for the Summer Contest!
All Your pH level>7 Are Belong To Us. - DarkRaptorX

Thanks HM...damn, I picked two close ones in Luigi/Scorpion and Kirby/MC.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

This is a great topic. Thanks to everyone who is part of it.
---
Salute myshorts

No, I meant Luigi/Pac as DRS. At least Ganondorf can get 60% in the first round.

Luigi/Yoshi would be a decent choice in the second round... if it wasn't for the mother of all potential reverse-SFF matches happening the day after. I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but if it doesn't happen with Crono/Magus, it will never do. Think about it. Mute, bland RPG hero against the super-badass fan favorite from the same game. The first part gives it all away - generally RPG fans don't like their leads bland. Makes you wonder what Crono is doing in the Noble Nine anyway.

And I still stand by my belief that if Magus pulls it off, Mario has a free pass to meet Link. Magus is no pushover, but I just don't see him pushing Mario to the limit like Crono does.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

The first part gives it all away - generally RPG fans don't like their leads bland.

Then explain to me why Cloud won the contest last year.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

Crono is by no means bland unless you include Cloud, Squall, and Sephiroth. Being able to speak does not prevent one from being bland. Crono has the bad-ass, overall coolness look going for him and that seems to work for others. And the wonderful assortment of characters around him led to him not HAVING to speak to be a cool character. Plus the fact that the anime cut scenes on Final Fantasy Chronicles did wonders for him also.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I'd imagine it's easy for the person sitting in front of FF7 for 60 hours to relate to the quiet guy who fantasizes he is better than he really is.
---
-----
-------

Oh-kay... things just got from bad to worse for Vivi. How could one make me buy that Vivi = Squall prior to the KH boost is beyond me

Ok so if we used Squall’s performance in 2002 he would’ve gotten 24.36% against the champion and Donkey Kong in 2003 (in 2002 he had major SFF) he would’ve gotten 24.51% against the champion. Which makes that really close, but there’s one more factor which you people are going to have to find out on your own


Luigi VS Scorpion (thinkin' Luigi?)
Alucard VS Bowser (thinkin' Bowser)
Kirby VS Master Chief (thinkin' Kirby is ranked higher, but I think MC would win if they battled today)
Dante VS Zero (pretty sure Zero, but I wanna see how close this is)

I just got to pondering over those matches for no real reason, and I know neither the site where I can obtain the rankings nor the mathematical formula to obtain the estimated percentages in a match.

These are estimates. Luigi wins by 51%. Bowser wins by 55.50%. Kirby wins by 50.50%. Zero wins by 58%

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

can't let this fall off of the first page (I have 50 topics)
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

This topic doesn't need a mass of bumps. We have plenty of things to discuss without them.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

"None of us here aside from you expect to win the contest."

Bull****!
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Personally, I gain more enjoyment from the discussions about the matches than I do the actual attempt at winning the entire thing.

At the same time, I do enjoy the prospects of winning, so while I do engage in discussions about matches, I also don't always outright state my opinions. And sometimes, I will state opinions to start discussion about my logic as opposed to my picks. That helps me out when I make my decision much more than seeing who everyone else picked.

There are some picks that seem obvious to the bunch that have really kept tabs on these contests, yet confuse the heck out of anyone not really familiar with past performances. Those picks hurt the 'experts' when they reveal the answers.

Revealing those results gives more and more people an advantage, and more and more of those people have possible winning brackets, when before they might've had a 50/50 shot on a couple of matches.

At the same time, this is a discussion thread, so keeping mum on every single match to protect our own brackets is near to being contrary to the nature of the topic.

Kinda interesting.
---
-----
-------

"But transitivity has never so much as even been challenged as an assumption ;)"

I callenge it regularly. I don't think it'll hold up every single time, we just haven't seen the matches to prove it... except...

"SFF violates the linearity assumption, but nothing has yet violated transitivity."

Cloud may very well have. We haven't seen him in a direct matchup with Mario again. Sephiroth would have beaten Mario no matter what, the math to prove that exists, but Cloud beating Seph doesn't prove with certainty that Cloud would beat Mario because "The Hero Factor" seems to hold up all too well.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Here's an interesting thought that involves the stats. Do you think that a Crono vs. Sephiroth match would stick to the extrapolated rankings of Sephiroth winning? There are a lot of factors that may or may not play in such a match.

1. Crono and Mario are virtually even, so since Mario was creamed by Sephiroth last year does that mean that Crono would?

2. Crono has the Hero vs. Villain factor going for him, although he's not nearly equal to Cloud. How much a factor would this play in the match? Would it give Crono a significant boost? Or would it even matter?

3. Crono vs. Sephiroth SFF or REVERSE SFF. There may be a lot of people that just like both equally. Some people may not have liked Cloud better in FFVII but would gladly vote for Crono.

4. Cloud vs. Mario: They haven't met since that fated 2002 match, so all we have to go by is that Sephiroth blew Mario out and Cloud beat Sephiroth. Sounds good right? But once again, can we put Crono at this level?

Would people stick to the stats in this match, or would more hidden factors come to play. I'm not saying Crono would actually BEAT Sephiroth, but would you give him more of a chance then Mario? Would the match be closer than most people would imagine? Could Crono actually WIN?
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

I feel that Crono might pull the match slightly closer than Mario, but by no means would he have a chance to win. I mean, mario lost by nearly 30000 votes - and none of the factors that could really play into that matchup have been proven to be more than miniscule.

Personally, i really want Crono to beat mario - not just for the sake of my bracket, but also for the fact that a link-crono matchup would be more interesting than another link-mario match, if only to see how exactly they would compare directly.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

I thought as much. I brought this up more as an actuality vs. stats discussion. Really I'm trying to study things that the extrapolated data might not be able to pick up on (but shhhhh, don't tell anybody). My bracket is pretty much set though. That's why I brought up a non-match for discussion.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

It's possible that KH had little to no effect on the contest last year.

We had more voters in 2003 than 2002. It's not too hard to believe that more of the new voters were Square fans than Nintendo fans, because the margin of error between non-Square and Square characters was close enough as is.

And the "the voters are different now" idea likely applies to a lot of the other changes in character rankings from year to year... And that's why the extrapolateds won't tell us everything in our predictions from this year, and there will be at least one match that causes the board at large to say "How the hell did that happen?"
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Well, then how else do you explain why the characters who made the most significant progress from the previous summer (other than DK, for extreme SFF reasons) were the ones who made cameos in Kingdom Hearts? It's possible that it didn't have much impact, but the evidence is in favors that it did.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Well, then how else do you explain why the characters who made the most significant progress from the previous summer were the ones who made cameos in Kingdom Hearts?

They're all Square characters. Odds are, the new voters that came to the site were mostly Square fans.

KH had an impact. But I just can't see how the hell the impact was huge enough to singlehandedly put the FF characters (Cloud and Sephiroth) on top.

And Squall? We never saw what he was really like in 2002, cause he had to immediately face Snake. He was probably fairly strong to begin with, and the influx of FF fans just put him over the edge.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

I think KH gave some sort of boost to Cloud and company, but i don't think that a KH factor nessecarily explains away the results of 2003. It is a likely explanation, but the huge voter influx likely was responsible for at least a large portion of the impact - it wasnt nessecarily old voters changing their minds, but more new voters entering into our data pool.

Also, concern - i think we all can agree that the 10000 voters we are missing will have some sort of impact on the contest - although what exactly is as yet unknown....suppose...just suppose..that more of the voters we lost in the first few ronds were Nintendo fans than Square fans.

Imagine cloud and seph being even stronger than last year.

Ouch.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Well, not all Square characters improved a lot. Only those who had a cameo in Kingdom Hearts did. According to the extrapolated rankings, Squall did improve significantly. 35% against Solid Snake was impressive, but he's weaker than Samus. Squall got nearly 42% against her last summer, indicating a huge improvement.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

I was bored, and still pissed off at the Hyrule division, so I came up with this:

The Hyrule Division seeds according to the extrapolated rankings.

True Seed. Name (Given Seed) Difference
1. Link (1) 0
2. Mario (2) 0
3. Crono (3) 0
4. Magus (6) -2
5. Ganondorf (8) -3
6. Bowser (7) -1
7. Alucard (9) -2
8. Yoshi (5) +3
9. Luigi (4) +5

After that, newbie strength becomes something of a factor, but it's clear that, except for the top three, the seeds do not reflect past results. In particular, Ganondorf and Magus got screwed while Yoshi and Luigi were elevated much higher than they deserve. Oh well, at least Alucard finally gets unlucky after two luck trips to the Sweet 16.

Rather strong division, now that I look at it more closely. A member of the Big 3 (Link), 2 other Noble Nine members (Mario/Crono), and two psuedo Noble Nine guys (Magus/GDorf). Then look at the Chaos division, with two weak Noble Nine competitors...Blarg, says I.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

KH had an impact. But I just can't see how the hell the impact was huge enough to singlehandedly put the FF characters (Cloud and Sephiroth) on top.

Oh jeez, not you too. Don't confuse voter turnout with percentages. No matter how many new voters come pouring in, there is nothing to suggest that they would not have simply gone with the percentages presented in 2002 had no new games been introduced. My proof, you ask?

Summer 2002 - East Round 2 - (7) Knuckles [39.29%] vs (2) Solid Snake [60.71%] - 21.42%
Summer 2003 - West Round 2 - (1) Solid Snake [63.13%] vs (8) Knuckles [36.87%] - 26.26%

If new voters can create such a large difference in one example, then they should be making a large difference in all of the examples. I don't think a 4.84% difference from one year to the next can be attributed to anything other than volatility. Such a massive boost to only the KH cameo characters and nothing but year over year volatility and margain of error boosts and declines for everyone else? It doesn't add up to think that KH had no effect.

And Squall? We never saw what he was really like in 2002, cause he had to immediately face Snake. He was probably fairly strong to begin with, and the influx of FF fans just put him over the edge.

Gee, I wonder where that influx came from. Before Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy 8 was one of the most hated games in the Final Fantasy series. Ever since then, there has barely been a whisper of such things, and FF8 sits comfortably behind FFX in fourth place in Favorite FF polls. It's also earned its respect on this board as well, as it has done quite well in contests. Kingdom Hearts being the cutoff line is no coincidence in my eyes, and frankly, I don't understand how people are still arguing over this.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Perhaps it is possible that people overstated the supposed hate for FF8. I think the same thing happened to Wind Waker. In that context, Squall's performance (and WW as well) shouldn't that be surprising.

FF8 wasn't in the last contest. My point is that most things associated with KH received a boost after the game.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

daily post...ill read and say more tomorrow!
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

I honestly don't see what proof you have that KH was the factor in all of this, Ulti. The only FF characters that were in the contest both in 2002 and 2003 were Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Squall, and Tidus.

All five of those characters were in KH, true. But as far as the FF characters go, we only had data for those five as far as any progression from 2002 to 2003, because they were the only FF characters in each contest. So the boost could have just as easily been a boost from more new Square voters rather than a boost because of KH.

To be honest, there hasn't been one groundbreaking game since the 2002 contest that really made one character much more popular than he or she was before, with the possible exception of Metroid Prime. Take a look at the games that made it in the spring contest to figure that one out for yourself.

On a slightly different note, something just occured to me... When do you think the next game to introduce new characters that have any chance of joining this contest's elite will be released?

All I can see on the horizon is FFXII. But besides Ashe and Vaan, is there anyone that might actually be introduced into the gaming world and rise to an elite level? Or are the Noble Nine pretty much set in their positions for good?
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Seeing how the newest Noble Nine guys are Cloud and Seph, and they're already seven years old...

I'd say it depends on whether Square wants to go back to the quality level of the early-to-mid-90s, or if Nintendo tries to start a new big franchise (though the ones already represented have existed for 18 years at least and counting).

So it's extremely dubious, essentially. And the current state of gaming would make it extremely difficult for other companies to crack in like Megaman, Snake and Sonic did.

While I'm at it, remember a certain SC2K4 bracket by era I made? Remember a certain division 128 final? How ironic that it's going to be a first round match in the real deal!
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

You mean Tidus vs Shadow?
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Yeah, did CJayC really have "the two strongest characters of the current era" in mind when he set that up, or is it just a creepy coincidence?

I still maintain that it should have been a second round match-up though.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

So the boost could have just as easily been a boost from more new Square voters rather than a boost because of KH.

More square voters? Square hadn't had a big hit between the two contests except *gasp* Kingdom Hearts. Coincidince? ...No, didn't think so.
---
BtT: 4:20.41 | HRC: 42,896.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

I still maintain that it should have been a second round match-up though.

I wouldn't say Tidus vs. Shadow should be a second round match... I just don't think either is true sweet sixteen material. Maybe a 4 vs. 5 match. But I think both of them are second-round characters.

What I'm most worried about is that Tidus seems to have a reasonably large fanbase.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

4 vs. 5, that's what I was thinking. I actually gave both 4-seeds in my pseudo-bracket. Shadow's a bit dubious, but I think he'd be able to take out Bowser (the 5-seed he faces in that bracket).

I see Tidus as true Sweet 16 material, seeing how he's the second best character (behind Ganondorf) to have never made it, and Shadow as borderline *sigh*.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

More square voters? Square hadn't had a big hit between the two contests except *gasp* Kingdom Hearts. Coincidince? ...No, didn't think so.

Coincidence of sorts. KH helped, I'm sure, but I just don't think it was as powerful as people claim. More Square voters could be just that... more Square voters. The FF games are the ones with the most thorough coverage on the site as far as FAQs go, and this place is called "RPGFAQs" by some for a reason.

I'm not saying KH was useless. But I think the FF characters would have gotten more votes even without it. It's not like any FF character besides Squall had a big part in KH anyway... And he didn't even go by Squall.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

you do know that Shadow and Tidus are ranked 12th and 13th in the standings
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Oh, and...

What I'm most worried about is that Tidus seems to have a reasonably large fanbase.

Sorry, meant to add something onto that.

Ahem.

I mean, the guy's TIDUS, for God's sake. Squall has those that love him, and those that hate him. Tidus has those that hate him, but I haven't seen that many Tidus fans.

I thought no one could stand him.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Yeah, charmander, I know that. But neither has done anything great yet, except look impressive while losing. I'd be hesitant to give them anything over a 5 seed at this point, because there are those below them in the rankings that I'd think would be more popular than they are listed. Zero, Squall, Bowser, Auron...

Oh, and there's Frog, the one popular new guy out of the bunch.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

I have a feeling either that he's going to have a close match with LS and everyone will think that he flopped, but then easily beat MC or the opposite will happen
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Probably what you said, charmander. What people don't realize is that a close match with Liquid Snake is hardly a flop... Liquid's pretty popular in his own right.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

No I think this board has too much Frog support they've totally wrote off Liquid Snake. Heck I've seen some people put Frog over Solid Snake.
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I honestly don't see what proof you have that KH was the factor in all of this, Ulti. The only FF characters that were in the contest both in 2002 and 2003 were Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Squall, and Tidus.

All five of those characters were in KH, true. But as far as the FF characters go, we only had data for those five as far as any progression from 2002 to 2003, because they were the only FF characters in each contest. So the boost could have just as easily been a boost from more new Square voters rather than a boost because of KH.

Those two paragraphs do nothing more than take what I have said and use circular logic against it.

Let me put it this way. Assume that no games at all come out between 2002 and 2003. Wouldn't the voting patterns stay similar? And by the way, the part I bolded helps prove my point. I just feel that the entire debate isn't even worth arguing over at this point, especially when people can subliminally admit it to be true, yet deny it anyway.

Until someone can logically explain to me how those five characters, and only those five characters, got such a massive boost without anyone else getting a similar boost, I simply cannot go against KH. Hell, everyone was whining about KH all through the Cloud/Link match last year. You said it yourself. People come to this site for help on video games, namely RPGs. I would assume that Kingdom Hearts introduced a load of new people to the Final Fantasy series having sold four million copies, and that those people were constantly coming here for help on the games. And it isn't just the characters, either. I have most of the Final Fantasy titles on my favorites list, and it was no coincidence that FF7, FF8, and FFX received an influx of new players once Kingdom Hearts sunk its teeth into the mainstream audience. When you sell four million copies, a mere 0.01% of that total (40,000 people) being introduced to the Final Fantasy series could have caused some serious damage to the last contest.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Ulti - the vote totals changed by how much, thirty thousand or so? I think the massive amount new incoming voters (if they had a heavy enough final fantasy bias) could easily account for 2003. If the vote totals had stayed the same, or nearly the same, that would be one thing. In such a case, KH would be the obvious culprit. However, considering our lack of consistancy in the data pool, i still can't accept the KH factor at face value.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

While 1% of 4,000,000 is 40,000, a mere .01% is only 400.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

So all of these new Square fans were introduced, but none of them were Crono fans? Seems a bit off to me.

andaca if your theory is true and this year we have less vote totals then wouldn't most of the FF characters get weaker?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Seeing how the newest Noble Nine guys are Cloud and Seph, and they're already seven years old...

I'd say it depends on whether Square wants to go back to the quality level of the early-to-mid-90s, or if Nintendo tries to start a new big franchise (though the ones already represented have existed for 18 years at least and counting).

So it's extremely dubious, essentially. And the current state of gaming would make it extremely difficult for other companies to crack in like Megaman, Snake and Sonic did.

I do believe Viewtiful Joe could become something great in the future if Capcom plays their cards right with him. They already dropped the ball with Dante...and if DMC3 flops, he is done for. But VJ is well liked and critically praised...and the sequel already looks promising...
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

If Frog beats Liquid Snake, I see no reason he cant beat Solid Snake too. A snake is a snake is a snake, dont matter what he is composed of!
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

If Frog beats Liquid Snake, I see no reason he cant beat Solid Snake too. A snake is a snake is a snake, dont matter what he is composed of!

No. Just, no.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

If Frog beats Liquid Snake, I see no reason he cant beat Solid Snake too. A snake is a snake is a snake, dont matter what he is composed of!

Before coming to this site (boy that's been a while) I didn't play MGS series, but I still heard of Solid Snake, but if it wasn't for Gamefaqs and me trying new games I wouldn't even know Liquid Snake existed
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Same here. I knew Solid Snake before i played the game, but I didn't know Liquid Snake till I played MGS.
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

uh...who is Liquid Snake exactly?
---
I'm a LUEser now.

So all of these new Square fans were introduced, but none of them were Crono fans? Seems a bit off to me.

I was about to mention that. You can't have such a huge influx of new Square fans as voters and not expect Crono to receive a boost of some sort. He barely changed at all. If he had gotten the benefit of these new Square voters (which he would have), he should have easily beaten Mario last year.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

The general consensus seems to be that Samus will beat Sonic, and with much more of a margin than 34 votes. Does anyone think that the Sonic Mega Collection might have an impact? How well did it sell? Because I can imagine that it could create a lot of new fans. But, then again, it might have been people that were already familiar with Sonic and wanted to replay his old (and best) games, so I'm not sure if it will bring in too many votes. I'm still leaning towards Samus (which is who I currently have in my bracket), but I think Sonic can keep it just as close as it was last year.

Apro, Sonic has gone downwards since 2k2, and the gap between him and Sonic is wider. For that reason alone Samus is expected to have a more convincing win. I highly doubt anything that Sonic has done recently would help him much if at all.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Between him and Samus, I mean.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

The last I checked on Sonic Mega Collection it hadn't managed to get over 100,000 copies sold and when it was first released (November) the sales total for two months later were 21,000. Considering that was also released in 2002 while this is 2004 I could safely say relying on Sonic Heroes would be a better idea. =p
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Wait, wait I have the Sonic Mega Collection total as of June 2004 it sold 446,000 copies.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Hey, guys, I've been thinking alot about Link vs. Cloud lately...

...assuming that the final IS between those two (and I don't see any reason why it won't be), which character will win?

Will KHF have worn off enough for Link to win? Will Link receive more votes if Ceej uses the artwork from the new Zelda instead of Wind Waker art? Will anti-repeat votes matter for once now that FFVII has won two contests in a row?

Just wanna see what you guys think.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

"andaca if your theory is true and this year we have less vote totals then wouldn't most of the FF characters get weaker?" - charmander

I'll take a stab at this one, and why I think it is not a true statement (question). I am going to assume a few things, and you gentlemen are more than willing to call me out on my assumptions. Imagine we have 80,000 voters, and Squall wins a match again Luigi 60-40. Site changes, poll location changes, and all around the aura of Gamefaqs is not what is was around the '03 contest. Jump ahead now to predicting the '04 contest. You are given that only 60,000 people are going to vote this time in a Squall vs. Luigi match-up. Where did the other 20,000 voters go? MY GUESS is that they are the casual voters. Not all, but the ones who get a gamefaq, don't make a bracket, and don't search the site for polls. What I mean, is these are the people who, when the poll doesn't load in their active browser, will think nothing of NOT scrolling down to look for it, because the gamefaq browser is on the top of the page. Who benefits from these events? Cult heros and site favorites. Their fanbase is MORE likely (but not guaranteed) to not fall in the casual voter category, but more of the rabid gamefaqoholic. Who is hurt? The recognizable characters, mainstream, who people just know by name, not necessarily from gaming. Link, Mario, Sonic, the characters who get support from movies, tv shows, marketing, et al. Will it KILL these characters? In a word, no, obviously, however it will cost them this 'casual vote.' Back to my example, losing 20,000 voters will LIKELY cost Luigi a larger percentage of his votes than Squall, and as such maybe it turns into 63-37 this year. I am basing my bracket off of this assumption (and will keep Frog and Crono in the Elite 8 as a direct result of this). I am not marketing this as fact, but merely intellectual inference. We'll know after the first round what effect our perceived lower voting turnouts will have on the match. I think the Vivi/DK match will prove or destroy my theory. Vivi is the cult hero, with some support gained from his appearance (but still, that appearance will only strike with games who know the series). DK is the marketing icon (so to speak), with multiple games in multiple roles, who the casual voter can identify. IF the voting turnouts are in fact down from last year, it is my belief Vivi takes this match with 53-55. IF the voting turnouts show no statistically significant drop-off, I really cannot see how Vivi will win.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): CATS, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, KOS-MOS, Gordon Freeman

Apro, Sonic has gone downwards since 2k2, and the gap between him and Sonic is wider. For that reason alone Samus is expected to have a more convincing win. I highly doubt anything that Sonic has done recently would help him much if at all.

Uhh...Samus is a woman. I hope that was just a typo.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

The general consensus seems to be that Samus will beat Sonic, and with much more of a margin than 34 votes. Does anyone think that the Sonic Mega Collection might have an impact? How well did it sell? Because I can imagine that it could create a lot of new fans. But, then again, it might have been people that were already familiar with Sonic and wanted to replay his old (and best) games, so I'm not sure if it will bring in too many votes. I'm still leaning towards Samus (which is who I currently have in my bracket), but I think Sonic can keep it just as close as it was last year.

If SMC didn't help Sonic last year, I don't see any reason why it would help him this year.

There's really no doubt in my mind that Samus will beat Sonic. The Blue Blur only continues to deteriorate while Samus continues to gain more and more fans.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 7/10/2004 9:11:11 AM | Message Detail
Between him and Samus, I mean.

Yes, it was a typo, and I followed up on it immediately.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

446,733 - Sonic Mega Collection
382,120 - Sonic Heroes

US Sales of course. I can't say whether these numbers are good or bad though.

Considering I'm pretty sure Prime broke a million (any figures, HM?), I'd say that's bad news for Sonic. Not to mention Fusion and Zero Mission.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

Just for the record, here are all of the Noble Nine's appearances in games since the last Summer Contest...

Cloud:

Nothing

Link:

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures
Classic NES Series: The Legend of Zelda

Sephiroth:

Nothing

Mario:

Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3
Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Mario Party 5
Mario Kart: Double Dash
Classic NES Series: Super Mario Bros.
Classic NES Series: Donkey Kong
Mario Golf: Advance Tour

Mega Man:

Mega Man Anniversary Collection

Crono:

Nothing

Samus:

Metroid: Zero Mission

Snake:

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes

Sonic:

Sonic Battle
Sonic Heroes
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

In the United States and Japan combined Metroid Prime sold 1.18 million copies. The total for the United States was around 1.1 million. Although Europe can more than make up a million units itself.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Those numbers are bad. If the total sales for SH there is a combination of all systems then Sonic is screwed.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

The combined total of all three versions of Sonic Heroes comes to is: 527,421.

In the United States of course.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Funny how both Metroid and Sonic are loved in the US and neither are cared for at all in Japan.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

That's still bad news for Sonic.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Now, here's what each of the Noble Nine characters have on the horizon:

Cloud:

Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

Link:

The Legend of Zelda (working title)
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
DS Zelda (not unveiled yet, but confirmed by Eiji)

Sephiroth:

Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

Mario:

Mario Tennis
Mario Tennis GBA
Mario Party 6
Paper Mario 2
DS Super Mario Bros. (working title)
DS Mario Kart
Mario Pinball
DS Super Mario 64 4x4
Mario Party Advance

Mega Man:

Nothing

Crono:

Nothing

Samus:

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Metroid Prime Hunters

Snake:

Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (which doesn't actually star Snake, but we'll let that slide)
Metal Gear Acid

Sonic:

Sonic DS
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I keep switching luigi/yoshi and sonic/samus.

I am a poor boy ;_;
---
... Hi.

Yep. Across all three consoles that's awful. Funny if you combine Sonic Mega Collection with Sonic Heroes I don't believe you get a million units even, heh.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Mega Man never has absolutely nothing coming out. =p

Mega Man X: Command Mission
Mega Man Anniversary Collection (GBA)
Mega Man Zero (although it doesn't star Mega Man, so..)
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Oh and Mega Man X8.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

D'oh! Forgot about the GBA version of MMAC.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I find it interesting how Mario always has a deluge of new games being released, yet no one ever gets sick of him.

What's the difference between a franchise like Mario that can go on for so long from a franchise like Tomb Raider that drove itself into the ground so quickly?
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Mario games were actually good.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

More specifically after the first couple of Tomb Raider games they just kept constantly sucking, much like Sonic lately. Mario's one of the only franchises that has a staying power of 20+ years.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

...as long as the quality of the games isn't like Mario Party 5.
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Plus, most of Mario's games aren't "true" Mario games, like Bros., World, 64, and Sunshine. The diversionary games just keep Mario in your minds, and provide more hype for the next "real" Mario game.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

More specifically after the first couple of Tomb Raider games they just kept constantly sucking, much like Sonic lately. Mario's one of the only franchises that has a staying power of 20+ years.

Interesting how that works. I mean, Pac-Man hasn't received a good game since Ms. Pac-Man...and he doesn't even star in that game.

Oh, wait. I just remembered Pac-Man vs...that game is a blast. ^_^
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

If Super Mario 128 is exceptionally good, no need to think about it being huge in hype, maybe Mario can do it...
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

If Super Mario 128 is exceptionally good, no need to think about it being huge in hype, maybe Mario can do it...

At this point, I'm thinking that the new Mario game is gonna be released on Nintendo's next system as a launch title. After all, it'll need a killer app-something the GameCube lacked when it launched (though SSBM was released three weeks later.)
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

HM where do you get the numbers of copies sold for each game?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

What's the difference between a franchise like Mario that can go on for so long from a franchise like Tomb Raider that drove itself into the ground so quickly?

Heroic Mario already explained about the Tomb Raider series' progression from good-to-bad. I have another theory though. It may be that the fans of Tomb Raider type games were mostly casual (i.e fickle) gamers.

HM where do you get the numbers of copies sold for each game?

Different sources and they get their source from NPD.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

I'd have to say that if Mario doesn't get close to winning or win after SM128 comes out, most likely as a Revolution launch title, then that's like a punch to the stomach. I could see him taking a contest at that point in time though.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Well that's what I get for multiplying 4,000,000 and 0.01. Damned painkiller drowsiness.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Metroid Prime is for more in Samus being so heavily favored against Sonic than him actually going down, I think. There's no evidence of the latter for now, anyway - but if Samus breaks 53% then Sonic may have to be kicked out of the Noble Nine.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Could somebody please tell me what we do with our brackets for the Guru contest.

Do we give them to someone?

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

if Samus breaks 53% then Sonic may have to be kicked out of the Noble Nine.

I think it would have to be a bit higher than 53%, but regardless, who would be inducted in Sonic's place? The leading two candidates (Magus/Ganondorf) are going to be very hard to judge this year, as Crono/Magus and Link/Ganondorf reek of SFF.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I think it would have to be a bit higher than 53%, but regardless, who would be inducted in Sonic's place?

Tidus. *waits for everyone in the topic to vomit*

Seriously though, the rankings won't do Magus any credit, but he would be the one who deserves to step in and take Sonic's place if need be. If you want to go strictly by what the rankings will say, then it'll probably be the Tidus-Shadow winner unless another character comes out of nowhere.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

If you ask me I don't think someone needs to take Sonic's place as much as the cutoff point for these elite set of characters would need to be higher. When places 9, 10, and 11 are basically equal to each other it defeats the purpose of having a Noble Nine. Something like an "Elite 8" or something would be better than the current situation.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Why would Tidus step in if Ganondorf beat him by 1600 votes last year?
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Thanks to the SFF-riddled Hyrule Division, the rankings will likely favor Tidus over the other two, even though I know they would beat him. I said it because the mere thought of him being one of the elite sends chills down the spines of most and just disgusts other.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Tidus in the "Noble Nine" doesn't register because there are people who would come ahead of him. Ganondorf, Magus, not to mention Zero. With SFF adjusted rankings, to a certain degree, things should be able to be fixed to where Tidus doesn't happen to appear as the 9th strongest character in the rankings because he surely isn't.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Don't let your Mega Man bias get in the way, HM. Tidus is nearly a full percent better than Zero in the extrapolated. Yes, it's hard to imagine Tidus beating Zero, but again, it's just difficult to look past who he is.

All I wanna know is...Where are all of Tidus's fans? They come out of nowhere to vote for him on the day of his poll and you never hear a word out of them. It baffles me that the most vocally hated FF character ever could be more popular than every other in the series that didn't star in VII.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

He was higher by about a percent, but still I would find it hard to put Zero to lose in a match between the two. I mean what does Tidus have going for him that Zero doesn't? Besides being from Final Fantasy.

Although I have yet to understand how everyone hates Tidus but he manages to be stronger than a vast majority of the bracket. Maybe his fans just aren't very vocal about liking him. *shrug*
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Could somebody please tell me what we do with our brackets for the Guru contest.

Do we give them to someone?

Nothing, yet. Once the brackets go into lockdown, I'll create a topic calling for everyone who signed up to post their brackets.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

If your going to kick Sonic out and only have the Elite 8 then I think that Snake should be kicked out too and call it the Super 7 because Snake is closer to Sonic then to Samus

2003 Rankings

1. Cloud - 50%
2. Link - 48.39%
3. Sephiroth - 48.11%
4. Mega Man - 37.35%
5. Mario - 36.95%
6. Crono - 36.91%
7. Samus - 36.72%
8. Solid Snake - 34.74%
9. Magus - 33.81%
10. Sonic - 33.79%

what do you guys think?

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I think that Snake should be kicked out too and call it the Super 7 because Snake is closer to Sonic then to Samus

That's actually probably a better idea. I couldn't possibly imagine Samus losing to anyone below her.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Here is what I think about new characters entering the Noble Nine, excluding members already in, slipping out of it:

I'll start off with the characters that round off the Top 15, with the exception of Shadow, for obvious reasons, and say what they have to do to enter the Noble Nine:

Magus: Has to either appear in Kingdom Hearts 2 or hope for a remake of Chrono Trigger.

Ganondorf: Reappear in Zelda 10 with the same personality as in WW and play a slightly more prominent role than he has in the past. Or just do something really badass like kill Zelda.

Tidus: I'm not sure if there's much he can do, short of FFX being ported to Gamecube and/or Xbox.

Zero: Better hope for Megaman games to suddenly become more mainstream than they already are.

Aeris: Not much other than playing a really cool role in Advent Children.

Now, I don't think that there are any other characters that currently exist, besides these 5, that could possibly break into the Noble Nine, short of a miracle happening for another one of the contestants.

Now as for any characters yet to come. If an RPG was made that was as popular as FFX and had a main character that the general gaming populace did not find annoying (A.K.A. Tidus), then I could really see them being Noble Nine material.

There's also the chance of a new mascot being born, but I kinda doubt that one.

Oh, Slowflake said that Cloud and Sephiroth were the newest characters in the Noble Nine. Well, technically he's right, but let's not pretend here.

Snake was nowhere near Noble Nine status until the release of Metal Gear Solid (hell, looking at the Spring Contest, maybe it was MGS2 that put him over the edge into Noble Nine territory). So even though Cloud and Sephiroth are technically the newest characters in it, Snake is the newest entry into the Noble Nine, if that makes any sense.

Hell, Magus was probably up there to, until a couple of years ago.


---
Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

How can you even talk about replacing Sonic?

Allow me to present a few points

- Sonic ended up with a poor ranking due to the fact that he faced Cloud when Cloud was at his destructive peak. When Cloud faced Link he was playing an equal as was it with Seph. Also Megaman was pushed up aganist seph with an overwhelming amount of votes from people who didn't want two FF7 characters in the final.

- Sonic had a poor pic aganist Cloud while Cloud had an awesome one. Another factor which pushed Sonic votes down. Sonic has fantastic new pics now so this should not be an issue.

- Magus, Ganondorf and Shadow were all new to the game and so would benefit from the "freshness" factor.

- Despite Sonic Heroes receiving mixed reviews it sold by the bucket load. While I can't speak for everyone I KNOW that Sonic Heroes is the top selling game for the 7 months of this year so far in both the U.K and Ireland. Surely this massive new audience will raise votes?

- Many people who were here previous years will have gone only to be replaced by younger users. The result is that current gaming icons like Sonic,Mario,Samus,Snake,Link etc.. will remain strong. FF7 is recent enough so Cloud and Seph need not fear. Crono needs to worry as his series won't be continued and a lot of his fans won't be around to save him this year. My major concern is Megaman as sales of his recent games outside of Japan have been comical. This suggests that Megaman is not gaining new fans and his fans from his golden days on the nes are declining.

I think (and you can quote me on this) that the order at the end of the contest shall be

1 - Link
2 - Cloud
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mario
5 - Sonic
6 - Samus
7 - Crono
8 - Snake
9 - Megaman

10 - Squall
11 - Tidus
12 - Magus
13 - Ganondorf
14 - Bowser
15 - Shadow
16 - Frog

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

Magus: Has to either appear in Kingdom Hearts 2 or hope for a remake of Chrono Trigger.

He might not. On the Rankings he is higher than Sonic already, he this choice would make the most sense right now.

Ganondorf: Reappear in Zelda 10 with the same personality as in WW and play a slightly more prominent role than he has in the past. Or just do something really badass like kill Zelda.

Sure.

Tidus: I'm not sure if there's much he can do, short of FFX being ported to Gamecube and/or Xbox.

He really can't do much. It won't get ported to X-Box since Square only makes games for Nintendo and Sony. And It seems highly unlikely on the Cube, so the GBA would actually be the only chance at that.

Zero: Better hope for Megaman games to suddenly become more mainstream than they already are.

Agree on this one.

Aeris: Not much other than playing a really cool role in Advent Children.

Didn't even make this contest. Obviously she isn't as popular as some people think, so I think she's out of the question.
---
GameSpot < N-Gage ~ Zaranthan

He might not. On the Rankings he is higher than Sonic already, he this choice would make the most sense right now.

How is he ahead of Sonic?

1) Cloud (100.00%)
2) Link (93.75%)
3) Sephiroth (92.70%)
4) Mega Man (58.82%)
5) Mario (57.79%)
6) Crono (57.67%)
7) Samus (57.31%)
8) Snake (51.13%)
9) Sonic (51.04%)
10)Magus (50.32%)
11)Ganon (49.72%)
12)Tidus (48.37%)
13)Shadow (47.09%)
14)Zero (46.47%)
15)Aeris (45.22%)
16)Bowser (42.80%)
17)Squall (41.16%)


---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

My major concern is Megaman as sales of his recent games outside of Japan have been comical. This suggests that Megaman is not gaining new fans and his fans from his golden days on the nes are declining.

Singular Mega Man games sell well when they are released and never have really flopped. MMAC managed to take the number one GameCube game and number two PS2 game the first week it was released. Mega Man is in no way going anywhere in this contest, especially no below the likes of Sonic.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Actually Smurf in a different rankings, but I still think we should just call it the Super 7

1. Cloud - 50%
2. Link - 48.39%
3. Sephiroth - 48.11%
4. Mega Man - 37.35%
5. Mario - 36.95%
6. Crono - 36.91%
7. Samus - 36.72%
8. Solid Snake - 34.74%
9. Magus - 33.81%
10. Sonic - 33.79%

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

2003 Extrapolated Standings:

1. Cloud - 50%
2. Link - 48.39%
3. Sephiroth - 48.11%
4. Mega Man - 37.35%
5. Mario - 36.95%
6. Crono - 36.91%
7. Samus - 36.72%
8. Solid Snake - 34.74%
9. Magus - 33.81%
10. Sonic - 33.79%

I'm just talking about the extrapolated standings.

IMO, I really don't think Sonic should be replaced. And that it wouldn't really make sense to see a replacement.
---
GameSpot < N-Gage ~ Zaranthan

1.Link (100%)
2.Sephiroth (76.53%)
3.Megaman (72.05%)
4.Samus (68.85%)
5.Sonic (68.79%)
6.Mario (59.91%)
7.Cloud (59.65%)
8.Crono (58.41%)
9.Snake (51.93%)

If Sonic could be this strong in 2002 I fail to see how you can disregard him (If anyone mentions the west division factor I swear they will get impaled!)

BTW HM whats with the sudden support for not-so-mega man. Mazza needs your support too <_<

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

How are you getting those stats? Mine are based purely on facts. If you make assumptions then they plain and simple don't count.

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

I'm managing to support both, Mario certainly isn't going by without my support. That would wrong on different levels.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

I'm managing to support both, Mario certainly isn't going by without my support. That would wrong on different levels.

Your sig,topic titles and general attitude would say different

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

http://www.sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k3_extrapolated.htm
---
GameSpot < N-Gage ~ Zaranthan

Your sig,topic titles and general attitude would say different

There hasn't been anything dicussed with Mario yet as he really can't do a ton this year given the division he's in. It's only a matter of time before he wins though, I know exactly when that year comes. ;)
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

How are you getting those stats? Mine are based purely on facts. If you make assumptions then they plain and simple don't count.

Our is also based on stats we just use a different formula and atleast with this type of rankings we can see what other characters would get against eachother
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

There hasn't been anything dicussed with Mario yet as he really can't do a ton this year given the division he's in. It's only a matter of time before he wins though, I know exactly when that year comes. ;)

If Mario 128 doesn't do it then I don't know what will.
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

If your looking for the 2002 rankings, Smurf, you can get them here as well: http://sc2k4.com/excel/sc2k2_extrapolated.htm
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

HM - If it was Mario vs. Mega Man in the Finals, who would you vote for?
---
GameSpot < N-Gage ~ Zaranthan

If Mario 128 doesn't do it then I don't know what will.

I agree. The year the game comes out I'm without a doubt putting Mario as my winner, it surely won't be the first time. That year he should win.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

How is he ahead of Sonic?

1) Cloud (100.00%)
2) Link (93.75%)
3) Sephiroth (92.70%)
4) Mega Man (58.82%)
5) Mario (57.79%)
6) Crono (57.67%)
7) Samus (57.31%)
8) Snake (51.13%)
9) Sonic (51.04%)
10)Magus (50.32%)
11)Ganon (49.72%)
12)Tidus (48.37%)
13)Shadow (47.09%)
14)Zero (46.47%)
15)Aeris (45.22%)
16)Bowser (42.80%)
17)Squall (41.16%)

Where did you get that ranking?
---
BtT: 4:18.11 | HRC: 42,896.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

What I posted were the 2002 stats based on stats. What I'm wondering is the method used behind the stats you have ?_?



---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

It would royally pain me to see a Mario vs. Mega Man match and something I would rather have be left to a "What if..." they faced ordeal but my vote would be for Mario.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

What I posted were the 2002 stats based on stats. What I'm wondering is the method used behind the stats you have ?_?

Well my method is sorta weird, but I come up with the same rankings, but I have to go eat lunch now so I can't tell you
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Ah, why not...

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - Bananaquest
66 - Lone Saiyajin
67 - Aeon Azuran
68 - Fett0001
79 - Fantusta
70 - Dilated Chemist
71 - BFitz310
72- ChichiriMuyo
73 - Lucid Faia
74 - HaRRicH
75 - MMXcalibur
76 - Captain Roy Falcon
77 - franmars
78 - Janus5000

I'm feeling lucky.
---
BtT: 4:18.11 | HRC: 42,896.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

The 2002 stats don't exactly matter anymore, Smurf. I'm as big a Sonic fan as any, but he's lost his luster. And the stats that people keep posting are not assumptions; they're the 2003 extrapolated standings.

And that entire pro-Sonic defense of yours is nothing but a biased opinion that serves to make excuses as to why Sonic got his ass kicked last year. For example, pictures mean jack squat to people when voting. Proof of this is found within Link's strength staying virtually even between the two contests. I'd be willing to bet that you could put 'Link's picture not available' in the poll and still see him kick everyone's asses.

Furthermore, Sonic Heroes has sold 500,000 copies worldwide. Not bad, but not big enough to give Sonic a sudden edge over Samus and her Metroid Prime title flying off the shelves by the millions. There is also Zero Mission to factor in, if that matters. I'm saying that Samus is guaranteed to win, but she is the clear favorite.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Samuc is a clear favorite by a comfortable margin, even. If Sonic were to win agianst he I'd declare hell as frozen over. This is not 2002 or 2003 anymore, and strange things can happen, but I just can't see that one.

Oh, and WDK11, you know absolutely nothing about Aeris' strength. She didn't get in because people expected her inclussion as a given, why nominate a two time sweet sixteener when they are expected to make it without the need of nominations. Aeris is a deserving two timer, and she made top 16 in actual standings twice in a row, as well. If she were in this bracket she'd rip it up again.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Samus, even
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

-Sonic ended up with a poor ranking due to the fact that he faced Cloud when Cloud was at his destructive peak.

I don't see how that makes a difference as to how strong Sonic was in the end. He would have had the same strength had he faced a Mario or a Crono.

When Cloud faced Link he was playing an equal as was it with Seph.

What does that have to do with Sonic?

Also Megaman was pushed up aganist seph with an overwhelming amount of votes from people who didn't want two FF7 characters in the final.

That makes enough sense if you only go by board opinion. The extra couple hundred votes or so seem like a not when you're surrounded by the people factoring into it all, but it didn't matter that much in the end. Getting people to vote doesn't mean that they're going to vote for who you ask them to vote for. And furthermore, Mega Man wasn't the only one receiving campaign votes in that match. No match with a high vote total only sees one of the characters receive the benefits. If you were to slice 40,000 votes off of that poll, the percentages would have looked the same.

- Sonic had a poor pic aganist Cloud while Cloud had an awesome one. Another factor which pushed Sonic votes down. Sonic has fantastic new pics now so this should not be an issue.

Pictures don't matter.

- Magus, Ganondorf and Shadow were all new to the game and so would benefit from the "freshness" factor.

New to the game? Ganon has been around for almost 20 years, and Magus almost 10. People didn't look at the poll and think 'Wow, they've never been in the contest before. I'm going to vote for them because of this alone!'.

- Despite Sonic Heroes receiving mixed reviews it sold by the bucket load.

500,000 copies =/= bucket load

While I can't speak for everyone I KNOW that Sonic Heroes is the top selling game for the 7 months of this year so far in both the U.K and Ireland. Surely this massive new audience will raise votes?

While I can't speak for everyone I KNOW that Street Fighter 2 had the overwhelming support of the European voters during its match with Super Mario RPG. Surely this massive fanbase should have saved it from losing?

- Many people who were here previous years will have gone only to be replaced by younger users. The result is that current gaming icons like Sonic,Mario,Samus,Snake,Link etc.. will remain strong. FF7 is recent enough so Cloud and Seph need not fear. Crono needs to worry as his series won't be continued and a lot of his fans won't be around to save him this year. My major concern is Megaman as sales of his recent games outside of Japan have been comical. This suggests that Megaman is not gaining new fans and his fans from his golden days on the nes are declining.

That makes no sense. A mass of people aren't going to discontinue coming to the site just because they are a year or two older. The average age of everyone here falls between 14-25 years old.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Ok. I have biased opinions against FFVII and I know that. But even I was surprised Aeris didn't make it into the bracket. Aeris would have probably make it into the the Sweet 16. But I really don't think that she is nearly as popular as Sonic even if Sonic's popularity is falling fast.
---
GameSpot < N-Gage ~ Zaranthan

I don't care what you people think, but I believe in the WDF. Without it Sonic dropped 6.13%, but with it he only dropped 2.35%
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I think a Super Seven with Samus as a cut off point makes a lot of sense. More sense than a Noble Nine that excludes #9, anyway.

Sonic, regardless of whether or not you believe WDF, has fallen between the last two contests, and if Sonic 2 in the Spring contest is any indication, will continue to fall in this one.

1 - Link
2 - Cloud
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mario
5 - Sonic
6 - Samus
7 - Crono
8 - Snake
9 - Megaman

You would have Megaman, after just releasing a million seller collection of his best games, fall 6 spots? Crono drops from equal to Mario to below Samus? Honestly, I'm surprised you don't have Snake at #1 because of Twin Snakes.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

Frog could break the N9 barrier. I hope not, because he su><0red but he potentialy could.
---
His grace, Sir YokeI, duke of USL.

The way that should have been ordered:

1 - Cloud
1 - Link
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mega Man
5 - Mario
5 - Crono
7 - Samus

---CUTOFF LINE---

8 - Sonic
9 - Snake
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I think Frog has a better chance of bombing Luigi-style than breaking into the Noble 9. I still have him in the Sweet 16, but that doesn't stop me from worrying.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Yeah. If the idea is going to be kept around might as well update it. A "Super Seven" is overall better than a Noble Nine that has positions 8-12 all pretty equal to each other.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

1 - Cloud
1 - Link
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mega Man
5 - Mario
5 - Crono
7 - Samus

---CUTOFF LINE---

8 - Sonic
9 - Snake

Cloud defeated Link by a wide enough margin to have the #1 ranking exclusively for him (of course, that'll change once Link wins this year. ~__^). Other than that, I totally agree with that list of the Super 7.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Mega Man should not be ranked above Mario...there's just no way I can ever see the Blue Bomber pulling off the win.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Mega Man had the stronger extrapolated ranking in both contests (granted, 2002 had the WDF, but it still would have been close). He's right where he should be, even though it doesn't feel right to many.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

It may not feel right, but it is right.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Where did the other 20,000 voters go? MY GUESS is that they are the casual voters. Not all, but the ones who get a gamefaq, don't make a bracket, and don't search the site for polls.

I think this will help Sephiroth more than Cloud, if anything. Forget this board, as the majority of the people I've seen prefer Sephiroth, and I'd naturally expect a main character to get more of the casual vote. As for how it will affect Link, I have no idea...

As for Luigi vs. Yoshi...well, notice how Conker faces Crono this year....the results of that match COULD give us a better idea.

Ooh, and that reminds me about Ness vs. Jak...remember that Mario got 74% against Servbot? Well, Luigi also got (a slightly better) 74% against Ratchet. If Mario and DK get the Mario anti-votes, why wouldn't Luigi, as well? I think the idea of the heroes receiving more anti-votes is a load of bologna. Now, if Ratchet overperformed against Luigi, think how HORRIBLY weak Ratchet would be. This gives Jak some more room for failure against Ness, heh. Likewise, the anti-vote could apply to Bowser, but against Ness last year, I think SFF would have canceled that out, anyway.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

1 - Cloud
1 - Link
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mega Man
5 - Mario
5 - Crono
7 - Samus

Hooray for the Super Seven!

I don't think Frog can break Noble Nine status (err, Super Seven, sorry), but I don't think he'll tank either. Liquid will be a decently strong opponent because of name recognition, but he won't pull in the casual vote like Solid can. Master Chief = XBox = no problem from someone from a very popular Square RPG. It'll be interesting to see how close he is to Magus, in any case, even though Magus will be hard to judge this year.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

So the Super 7 it is

anyways I've just notice is if Tidus wins with more then 53% of the votes Crono is in serious trouble because Shadow would've only been ranked so high because of Mario which would mean the same for Crono and that would mean that there is a big chance for Magus to upset Crono and even Mario

O_O
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Magus over Crono or Mario???

It sounds......so wrong...
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

You would have Megaman, after just releasing a million seller collection of his best games, fall 6 spots? Crono drops from equal to Mario to below Samus? Honestly, I'm surprised you don't have Snake at #1 because of Twin Snakes.

Uh, since when has MMAC sold a million copies? First week sales mean nothing, the last Harvest Moon game dominated in first week sales, and ended up not being in the top 30 of that month.

And as for losing voters...in SC2K2, Square wasn't as popular. Then, in SC2K3, Square gained a lot. Now why does it not make sense for Square to have casual votes? All Final Fantasy games sell extremely well, even X-2 and XI. They could perhaps be even more popular with the casual fan than Mario. Many of you seem to forget that while the casual fan is only casual, they still play games, which likely aren't exclusively made by Nintendo. I would expect a loss of casual fans to hurt modern characters and FF characters more than anyone else. After all, many of the people who like Mario are fairly hardcore fans, just look at the forums. Generally, Mario beats Cloud here. So, in SC2K4, a decrease in voting total would more likely mean a drop in Square popularity than a drop in Nintendo popularity.

On that note, does anyone have the system ownership poll set handy? It would be interesting to see how console ownership changed after the site redesign, and whether Nintendo is more or less popular.

And Super Seven? Come on guys, stick with the original name! It's Superior Seven, and I believe that Slowflake came up with it either in this thread or the last. I don't see why everyone ignored him then, everyone seems to agree with him now.

anyways I've just notice is if Tidus wins with more then 53% of the votes Crono is in serious trouble because Shadow would've only been ranked so high because of Mario which would mean the same for Crono and that would mean that there is a big chance for Magus to upset Crono and even Mario

Ranking Crono against Dante, Snake, or Lara should turn out well then. How do those turn out?

Ah, I'll mention my top 4 toughest matches. They don't have to be in order, do they?

Ryu H vs. Jill
Ness vs. Jak
Viewtiful Joe vs. Tails
Cloud vs. Sephiroth, but only because I want Sephiroth to win...

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

And Super Seven? Come on guys, stick with the original name! It's Superior Seven, and I believe that Slowflake came up with it either in this thread or the last. I don't see why everyone ignored him then, everyone seems to agree with him now.

I find Super Seven more catchy then Superior Seven

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Mega Man should not be ranked above Mario...there's just no way I can ever see the Blue Bomber pulling off the win.

Just wait a couple of years and we'll finally get to see Mario in the #1 spot. I've so awaited that day.

And Superior Seven just doesn't flow as well as Super Seven, either way though it's the same basic concept of cutting it off after Samus.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

On that note, does anyone have the system ownership poll set handy? It would be interesting to see how console ownership changed after the site redesign, and whether Nintendo is more or less popular.

GameCube: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1672
Playstation 2: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1674
Xbox: http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1675

Those are the three most recent polls on console ownership, taken June 15th, 17th, and 18th.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

On that note, does anyone have the system ownership poll set handy? It would be interesting to see how console ownership changed after the site redesign, and whether Nintendo is more or less popular.

You mean this?

Nintendo Gamecube -
After Redesign - http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1672

Before Redesign -
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1538

I'll join the Guru list.
Not much of my opinion to add right now, though.
---
SC2K4 - Final Four: Link, Mega Man, Cloud, Samus
Championship: Cloud over Link

Aww, I was gonna sugest Superior Seven.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Really? I was gonna suggest SClub7. You know, because they are the superior club.







*chuckles*
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

S Club 7!!!!
---
Supporter of Sora for SC2K4!

I like Superior Seven, to be honest. Super Seven sounds childish, and S Club 7 is just stupid.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Reggie's Seven it is then.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

I like Superior Seven better as well.

Either way, the two names are quite similar, so I can't say I really give a **** about what it's called.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Like I said, same basic concept doesn't really matter about the name.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

"and S Club 7 is just stupid."

That's the point I was trying to put across about the entire deal.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

I'll sign up.
---
"Trying.....the first step to failure."- Homer Simpson
~I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.~

That's the point I was trying to put across about the entire deal.

I knew that already. This is you we're talking about, after all ~_^
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

*grins*
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want watch the sunset in the sky. I just want know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Just wait a couple of years and we'll finally get to see Mario in the #1 spot. I've so awaited that day.

As much as I wish it were true, what makes you so sure?
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, History is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

Something other than KH gave Square characters a boost. It's understandable for Cloud, he at least did more than just fight you. Squall, too. He was pretty awesome in the game.

Look at Tidus. All you do is fight him once in the beginning of the game. How does that boost you from 55% against Claire Redfield to nearly beating Ganondorf and Magus?

Sephiroth. You fight him once, right? More if you want to. How does that get you from being weaker than Mario one year and then beating him with 61% the next? It was a cool fight, but it shouldn't change a poll that drastically. I think Bormun had a point.

KH didn't do that well in Sp2k4. Sora will probably have trouble getting past the first round this year. Don't get me wrong. KH is a factor, but it isn't the only thing that boosted the performance of Square characters.

I'd like to see Riku in this contest.
---
"Trying.....the first step to failure."- Homer Simpson
~I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.~

Anywho, a top ten list is sufficient, and I can't understand why people wish to deviate from such a simple standard. Top 10 gives Sonic, for those who are absolute fanboys (sick bastards) who still think he's worthy of some elite listing, shows that Magus is above Sonic, and doesn't exclude anyone of importance for a true elite list. For as good as Ganon is, I don't think he's elite.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

seeraamaazu.... Mario 128 should be orgasmic, at least for HM, and it will be good enough to give Mario a real boost.

And of course KH isn't the sole reason why FF characters increased, I'm not sure why anyone would believe that it is.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Mario 128 wasn't even at E3..
---
DEFENCE, DEFENCE
"Alas, History is nothing but a lie agreed upon" - Napoleon Bonaparte.

Doesn't matter, it's still being worked on, and we're talking about a fairly large time frame here. You copied that quote, so you have to know he clearly stated "in a couple of years". May not even be until after the GC2 is launched, but it'll come, it'll be as awesome as a Mario game should be, and it will launch him upwards drastically.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

As much as I wish it were true, what makes you so sure?

The date in which Super Mario 128 is released will have a huge impact on Mario's overall ability to do something in the contest. Nintendo didn't show the game at E3 because they are unsure which platform it will appear on (GCN or Revolution) and until they can confirm the console they aren't going to show anything. With a project kept this tight under wraps is all the more better, it's the only game I know right now that is hyped to get a single screenshot. The year it's released should very well be the year that Mario gets his well deserved win a contest. That's a couple of years away though, so until then we'll have Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth to talk about.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

"Sephiroth. You fight him once, right? More if you want to. How does that get you from being weaker than Mario one year and then beating him with 61% the next?"

Who said he was weaker than Mario? He got much closer to Link than Mario ever did. You can argue that SFF applied of course and hurt Mario and that's a valid point but nevertheless, Sephiroth still fared far better than the plumber.

Crypptic, were you here in 2k2? Mario and Seph weren't at all far apart.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

KH didn't do that well in Sp2k4.

13th place (15th with SFF adjusted ranking) is not doing well?
---
BtT: 4:17.65 | HRC: 42,896.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

"13th place (15th with SFF adjusted ranking) is not doing well?"

Considering that a lot of people think that Aeris isn't a strong charatcer, obviously it's not.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

<sigh> All this debate about whether Sonic should still be in the Noble Nine.

Kids, just repeat to yourselves before you go to bed at night, "There is no Noble Nine. There is no Noble Nine. There is no Noble Nine..."

;)
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

And Super Seven? Come on guys, stick with the original name! It's Superior Seven, and I believe that Slowflake came up with it either in this thread or the last. I don't see why everyone ignored him then, everyone seems to agree with him now.

That was me, actually. I just posted that a few days ago.

Funny, people often seem to get me confused with Slowflake. I wonder why? People have gotten solar and Slowflake confused at times, but there you have the "both their names begin with 'S' factor" :D
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

I guess it's just that people can't imagine more than one intelligent poster on GameFAQs so they subconsciously lump creativename, Slowflake and solarshadow into one user.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

Heh. To quote Tingle, "Our souls will be as one!"

(I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like my soul to be intertwined with Tingle's.)
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I love how smitelf, Heroic Mario, and myself are left out of the group of smart people =)
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

What, you don't like being considered dumb like the rest of us?
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

In today's news, Ulti proves that he is full of himself ^_~
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

"I love how smitelf, Heroic Mario, and myself are left out of the group of smart people =)"

*glares at ulti*

Anyway, cn is right, there is no noble nine. The noble nine always included Sonic, and it's clear that Sonic isn't stronger than Magus. A top ten is believable.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

smitelf:
I guess it's just that people can't imagine more than one intelligent poster on GameFAQs so they subconsciously lump creativename, Slowflake and solarshadow into one user.

Thank you :) I take that as a big compliment.

Ulti:
I love how smitelf, Heroic Mario, and myself are left out of the group of smart people =)

Well, people don't get you guys confused with us ;)

I think maybe it has to do with the "resident stat gurus" thing, because of our websites and the BOP.

MMX would also be there, except that he doesn't ever have anything to do with the stats topics, so I don't think people lump him in with us.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

Well, people don't get you guys confused with us ;)

Actually, I think someone did confuse me and Slowflake once (they thought he was the big HK-47 supporter here when it was actually me) so...wait...does that mean I'm smart?

Whoopie! *does chicken dance*

Wait...damnit...the fact that I did the chicken dance and then told everyone I did so automatically discounts me as being a smart person...curses, foiled again! I shall remain in my Slum of Idiocy, living in creativename's HDTV box, as you three look down upon me and laugh from your Luxury Condos of Intellect.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

I'll look up and down upon you, at least =)

And what ever gave you the idea that I'm full of myself? You would all be as happy as me if you were in my shoes, and don't lie ~_^
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

"You would all be as happy as me if you were in my shoes,"

I will be, I intend to win this friggin' time. I've got my math bracket going for me, and my friend is using my GT bracket. Either way, I get to claim that I saw it comming. :)
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Actually, I think someone did confuse me and Slowflake once (they thought he was the big HK-47 supporter here when it was actually me) so...wait...does that mean I'm smart?

Oh, yeah, "someone"...um... <dodges the issue>

I shall remain in my Slum of Idiocy, living in creativename's HDTV box, as you three look down upon me and laugh from your Luxury Condos of Intellect

Hey, I don't have an HDTV. But I do live in a condo :) More like a Luxury Condo of Messiness, but still.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

It's tough living away from home initially, isn't it? No parents to clean the place for you, no parents to do your laundry, no parents to pay all the bills, and no one spoonfeeding you through life. I like it better that way, but it can be tough at times.

Though on the bright side, I like not being bothered by people all the time.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I will be, I intend to win this friggin' time. I've got my math bracket going for me, and my friend is using my GT bracket. Either way, I get to claim that I saw it comming. :)

So you're going entirely by math in one bracket, and picking Crono to win your other bracket? Good luck.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

"So you're going entirely by math in one bracket, and picking Crono to win your other bracket?"

No and no. I'm not any sort of fool like that. I don't have Crono winning in my GT bracket and I didn't go 100% with the math in the math bracket.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

That reminds me that the first time we mentioned any sort of "elite class", it was me doing it, in an analysis of easiest and hardest roads to the championship: I left out Snake and Sonic, but let Magus in, with the "Magus can't possibly be weaker than Crono" sledgehammer being buried deep in my pea-sized brain. Y'all disagreed about that, and thus the Noble Nine (the concept, not the actual name) was born.

As far as easy and hard paths go, it's really easy this year.

Easiest: Link
Hardest: Luca Blight

C'mon, Luca has to face 6 of the 11 strongest characters to win... Magus, Crono, Mario, Link, Megaman, Cloud/Sephiroth. Jesus. Remember Tom Nook's impossible mission last year? Thanks to Kefka bombing, Nook's way to the championship has been topped.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

If we're using the Super Sever, why not reserve Superior for a Superior Six if some should ever drop out (not that that's very likely though)? While we're at it, let's come up with a list of adjectives for a group of the top N characters. I suggest:

Ominous One
Terrific Two
Tenured Three (I can't come up with anything good for T, except for Terrific and Top (but I've already used those for 2 and 10))
Final Four
Fearsome Five
Superior Six
Super Seven
Elite Eight
Noble None
Top Ten

do you really think that Mario 128 will do that much? I really want Mario to win as well, but if SmS was supposed to do the same thing that we're hoping 128 will, what makes you so confident that it will? I mean, believe me, I want it to be successful too, but I don't know, it would really have to be outstanding.

Also, I don't think Magus would beat Sonic, maybe this year he'll do better to stop all the bashing he gets.
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

it would really have to be outstanding.

That's the plan.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Tenured Three (I can't come up with anything good for T, except for Terrific and Top (but I've already used those for 2 and 10)

how about the terrifying three

sounds right to me
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia Legends

The Titanic Three?
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Noble None

...
---
BtT: 4:17.65 | HRC: 42,896.3 ft
Crash is the Top Tier

See, creative is right; there is no noble nine. There is none!
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

Actually, that one list was wrong. It should read:

1 - Cloud
1 - Link
3 - Sephiroth
4 - Mega Man
5 - Mario
5 - Crono
7 - Samus
8 - Snake
9 - Sonic
10 - Magus

There. That's your Top 10, with Frog being the most likely to crack into it this year. And honestly, these suggestions for names are getting really stupid. I think we should simply create a Top 10 (the most common number for elite lists) and end it.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

This is starting to cause more controversy than the BCS....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Question about Sonic: Is he looked down upon solely in contest terms about his performance or is he generally disliked?

I hear all the time about how people think Sonic is washed up and his 3D games suck. Is it just the lack of a popular game that is doing Sonic in, or would it even matter? I personally enjoy playing the Sonic games. Sonic Adventure 2:Battle remains one of my favorite games PERIOD. I can understand where people come from when they complain about the shooting and hunting levels. But what about the Sonic & Shadow levels? They have by far the best GAMEPLAY of any Sonic game in my opinion. It's just that Sonic Team didn't emphasize on the fast, freewheeling gameplay of these levels. I think the Sonic games would have a lot more fans if they stuck to this gameplay. Anybody who disagrees go and play Shadow's "White Jungle" level and tell me what you think (the music rocked too).

Sonic Heroes had potential, but they KILLED it by making the levels WAY too long, slowing down the gameplay with the team concept, and just rushing the project overall (glitches, unpolished control, etc....) I would have been happy with 14 Sonic/Shadow style levels from SA2:B. But I still think Sonic has appeal, Sega just hasn't fully utilized it yet.

(Same with Nintendo and MARIO! We KNOW what the potential of Mario is.... Why can't we have a Mario & Luigi type game on Gamecube? (although Paper Mario 2 looks good) Why can't we have a Super Mario 3/World type game in 3D with Fire Flowers and Capes? Or am I just stuck in the past with Mario and Sonic? *sigh*)
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Where did you get that ranking?

A method which I learned from Diamond Soul X. It is fool proof and I find it a lot more accurate then your method.

Also I woud like to question this boards views of Squall. People dismiss him as being outside of the top 15. He did very well last year. Owning Jill and Luigi and putting up a great fight aganist Samus. Perhaps Luigi didn't bomb last year, perhaps Squall was THAT strong. What I meant earlier about the "newness" factor had nothing to do with how long characters like Magus had their games around. I was refering to being new in the contest. Lets face it, maybe you love the Zelda series but the character Zelda was getting a bit stale, which perhaps explains the lack of nominations. I think characters like Magus, Ganondorf,Shadow and Zero will lose out on a top 10 place due to becoming slightly stale.

Personally I think that the 9th and 10th place will go down between Squall and Tidus. Just because you don't like them does not mean that they'll go away!

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

No, it's a FACT that ours is more accurate. We were able to predict matches in 2003 much more accurately with that.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Nominations don't mean a thing. There wasn't a clear cut explanation about the overall nomination process. Apparently, 32 characters were automatically included in the contest, which means only 32 characters would be nominated in. Plus didn't CJayC only allow 10 characters per company?

I, like other people no doubt, assumed that the characters who performed well would automatically be included in the contest. That being said, I spent my nominations on characters who WEREN'T in the contest last year. Some people may have been using their nominations on Cloud, Link, Mario, etc.... Using the nominations as an argument doesn't stand well due to the unclarity of them.
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Nominations don't mean a thing. There wasn't a clear cut explanation about the overall nomination process. Apparently, 32 characters were automatically included in the contest, which means only 32 characters would be nominated in. Plus didn't CJayC only allow 10 characters per company?

I thought he said that the top 32 nominated got in and used the other nominations to see which ones he would use
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

i smell fish..oh its just the creator...
---
GameFAQs is to Square fanboys as FanimeCon is to cosplayers. Neither can go anywhere else without being totally humiliated.

Oh, I thought I heard someone say 32 got in automatically. But still, I doubt I'm the only one who assumed popular characters would automatically get in. I think CJayC should do an "automatic bid" list of characters that EVERYONE knows should get in, so that there won't be wasted nominations. Just a thought....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

I had a feeling during the nominations that characters automaticly getting in might not happen so I wasted a spot to nominate Mario
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

In response to therealmnm on Sonic:

I love the Blue Blur. I just found an action figure of him and now it's on top of the TV in my room >_>. It's just that his performance in these contests leaves something to be desired. I still think he's 9th until he actually goes up against one of those challengers (or gets BLOWN OUT by Samus, along with one of them holding another top contender real close).
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

I love how people say they think Sonic is still 9th when the numbers disagree.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Yeah, by two ****ing hundredths. He could be 12th, he could be 7th. There's no way to be sure.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

ChichiriMuyo if Sonic and Magus were to verse each other who would you predict to win?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Slow I don't think Sonic could overtake 7th, but he could be 8th though
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Yeah, that's a bit out of reach, but you see my point anyway.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Snowflake, that's exactly it. There's so much margin for error in a poll on a website... fluctuations in people coming, supposed "anti" votes, bracket/picture... all those things that don't mean anything when it comes to actually winning may converge to make up that little two hundreths.
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

*Steps away from inevitable argument about poll statistics*

My argument isn't about IF Sonic should be considered one of the elite characters ahead of Magus, Tidus, Ganondorf etc... It's more of WHY he isn't considered an elite character. Is it strictly a contest thing? A Gamefaqs thing?
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

It's a contest thing. He doesn't have much of a chance at anyone from Snake and up, and would likely founder against Magus or Ganondorf. That makes him a respectable contestant, but is simply not enough to make him elite.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

tag
---
"Calling Mystalic sexy is like calling calling a coconut a coconut.
...I'm not a suckup...>_>" - without a cause

I think Sonic would be able to beat Magus and Ganondorf both.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

And I think Magus and Ganondorf would beat Sonic. However, I don't think either of them could beat someone like Mario or Crono or Megaman, and I'm pretty sure most people would agree with me. That's why those three are elite and Sonic isn't.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

The fact that there's even discussion puts Sonic out of reach of those that we know are above him.
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

If you want to do character tiers, Sonic gets screwed too.

Cloud/Link/Sephiroth (1.99% difference)
10.76% difference b/w Seph/MM
Megaman/Mario/Crono/Samus (.63% difference)
1.98% difference b/w Samus/Snake
Snake
.96% difference b/w Snake/Magus
Magus/Sonic/Ganondorf/Shadow/Tidus (.66% difference)

Sonic gets lumped with 5 characters .66% apart. If you want to call him elite, you might as well call them elite too, and considering 13/64 characters elite is far too much. I'm sticking with the Super Seven with Snake as an oddball.
---
Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

These are all my opinions.

Sonic vs. Snake - Snake
Sonic vs. Samus - Samus
Sonic vs Magus - Sonic
Sonic vs Ganon - Sonic

Sonic is fine at 9th.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

If Sonic faced Ganondorf or Magus at best he would barely skim by and win. I don't think he would though.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

If Sonic faced Ganondorf or Magus at best he would barely skim by and win.

I agree.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Wow, Heroic Mario is doubting Sonic. I am in utter shock.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

He's given me more than a reason to doubt him.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

This coming from the person who thinks Mega Man can make up 13% with one game.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if either Crono or Mega Man beat Link.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

And if Link beat both with 61-62% of the vote...? Or better yeat, if he did that to MARIO instead...?
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Does anyone think it's possible for Crono not to be as strong as we thought due to Mario anti-votes? I'm not saying that it's a sure thing or that this factor is even that strong, but people have been hypothesizing that about Shadow since last summer. We don't know about Crono for sure because he's never lost to anybody else though.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

However, he's beaten a main-eventer in Snake... and the game of comparisons with Megaman shows Mario and Crono to be dead even.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I predict that Crono vs Mario won't even be close this year; just wait and see. ^^

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

I'm not saying Crono doesn't belong in the elite, but is it possible that losing to Mario two years in a row and benefitting from the anti-votes (if they exist) bumped up his ranking slightly?

I don't suppose it really matters because the only repercussions this would cause might be that he would lose to Samus and we didn't realize it. We already know Crono can beat Snake.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Crono gathered all the support on the board that he possibly could last year. If he couldn't kill Mario then, he never will.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

For once slowflake I agree with you!

I expect Crono to be on the slide this year

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

Board support means little if anything.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

My point was, Crono did a point worse than Megaman against Snake, and Mario did a point worse than Megaman against Sephiroth. Hence the theoretical tie.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Well, there was Mario's very dubious comeback last year during the final hours. "Not close" in Mario vs. Crono terms would be the final tally being larger than 1000 votes, which was the margin last summer before the comeback.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Oh, I expected that to mean a 54-46 killing.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Board support means little if anything.

Yet it's the only thing that can really turn the tide of a close match. If the rest of the voters are evenly split, unless something happens, they will always be.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Um, you could use that same logic for every voter group out there and could even carry it out to individuals.

"If everyone but me was tied, my vote would be important!"

True, but what are the chances of that?

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

If Sonic faced Ganondorf or Magus at best he would barely skim by and win. I don't think he would though.

What ever happened to the smart guy who predicted accurately the result of Earthbound v Doom match?

Sonic would win comfortably aganist Magus and Ganondorf. He would win by at least 2% aganist Snake. I think it will go down between a few hundred votes between Sonic and Samus and Sonic would of course beat Crono.

And may I point out that a one contest is not an accurate performance of a character. Big characters like Link and Mario cause anti-votes. Servbot got 20% aganist Mario and he is hated. So all I'm saying is that 1 contest is not a fair description of Magus,Ganon and Shadow. If you want to worry about newcomers coming into the noble nine worry about Squall and Tidus.

---
Submit your nominations for the autumn character battle using the form here -> www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004

Okay, Sonic getting 52% on Snake? Now that's ridiculous.

Squall and Tidus

They, too, had only one contest to prove their might... pre-KH =/= post-KH. And Squall is ages behind all these other people anyway.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Sonic would of course beat Crono.

Say what?

As much as I would love to have Squall enter the Noble Nine, it won't happen THIS year. If he has another big role in Kingdom Hearts 2, then we'll talk.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Sonic would win comfortably aganist Magus and Ganondorf. He would win by at least 2% aganist Snake. I think it will go down between a few hundred votes between Sonic and Samus and Sonic would of course beat Crono.

See, people seem to think Sonic is as good as he was in the 90's and he's nowhere near that level anymore. Sonic beat Snake by 2%? Give me a break. He would be an underdog in a match between the two much less managing to win by a margin like that. Against Ganondorf and Magus the stats say pretty easily that their all even. That's how a match between them should play out too. He's not a guarantee in any of those matches.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

In a direct encounter against Ganondorf or Magus I'd pick Sonic, just because of his status. Sort of how I'd give Mario a fighting chance against Megaman.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Sonic would of course beat Crono.

No he wouldn't.
---
And the no. 1 reason why Magus > Ansem.......Ansem bought an N-Gage, didn't he! FATALITY. O_O ~Cromage

Ummm, what exactly is =/=??????

You guys are making Sonic beating Snake by 2% seem like an earthshaking event. It probably WON'T happen but I wouldn't be shocked if it DID happen. It's very OPTIMISTIC to see a 52-48% match between them. I would rather go for a 51-49%. Snake hasn't been exactly blazing up the contest either. He hasn't had a close battle yet. Both of his exits weren't even close. Sonic had one of the closest matches by far with his match against Samus (not likely happening again however).

Arguments can be made for both sides though. Sonic got the LARGEST can by far opened up on him between Noble Nine members. But Cloud was on a tear regardless. I think he would have done that to Snake as well. Snake beat Aeris by a larger margin then Sonic did, but Sonic had post KH Aeris. I would like to see a direct match between the two. This bracket would have been FAR better if they replaced Solid Snake with Samus. Especially since we saw Snake-MegaMan LAST year....

I like playing devil's advocate if you haven't noticed....

---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Solid Snake can and would beat Sonic at will. Anyone who looks at the matches they each had against Aeris and says otherwise is a complete idiot.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

From: EvilNightmare | Posted: 7/11/2004 11:20:31 AM | Message Detail
i smell fish..oh its just the creator...

Wow. Not even this topic is free of people trolling anymore.

Must be contest season.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Solid Snake can and would beat Sonic at will. Anyone who looks at the matches they each had against Aeris and says otherwise is a complete idiot.

I agree that Solid Snake would likely beat Sonic, though Sonic's status is the only thing that keeps me from promising a guaranteed victory. Even then, I imagine that Sonic would get around 48% on Snake.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

Summer 2002 - East Round 3 - (11) Aeris [43.46%] vs (2) Solid Snake [56.54%] - 13.08%

Summer 2003 - East Round 3 - (11) Aeris [46.98%] vs (2) Sonic [53.02%] - 6.04%

Snake did over twice as better against Aeris than Sonic. How anyone could think that Sonic would have a chance in hell in a direct match is beyond me.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

The poll today reveals the hype for Link to be real. I think he'll take the contest to Hyrule.

---
Ñïñtèñdð²

No it doesn't, it just proves once again that Zelda is the most powerful Nintendo franchise.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

Yeah, just wait until Super Mario 128 gets more information then we'll talk. >>
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

In my own personal bracket news, I did end up switching my winner.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Wow, complete idiot?

Aren't you a big advocate of the Kingdom Hearts factor? Didn't that play a factor in Aeris' performance in 2003 if it contributed to Squall, Cloud, and Sephiroth? I know it wouldn't cover the whole spread, but shouldn't that be pointed out?

Regardless, I would pick Snake over Sonic ANYDAY based on the stats. I just wouldn't be shocked if he lost. But whatever....

Ooops.... I JUST realized what =/= means. Shouldn't /= suffice? That = / = keystroke really threw me off being an EE major.....
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

Aren't you a big advocate of the Kingdom Hearts factor?

That doesn't make me stupid. It makes me correct.

Didn't that play a factor in Aeris' performance in 2003 if it contributed to Squall, Cloud, and Sephiroth? I know it wouldn't cover the whole spread, but shouldn't that be pointed out?

Probably, but the percentages are too far apart for Sonic to suddenly be able to take Snake down.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

That doesn't make me stupid. It makes me correct.

????????????????????? Where did that come from?

Probably, but the percentages are too far apart for Sonic to suddenly be able to take Snake down.

That's what I just said. I'm not arguing that Sonic would beat Snake (that was the OTHER guys thought). I just wouldn't be as surprised as you guys sound like you would be IF that would ever happen. That's just my personal opinion though. I'm tired of talking about Sonic!
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

In my own personal bracket news, I did end up switching my winner.

I was counting the days, HM. ~__^ So, what happens to the thousands of sig bets you had riding on Mega Man?
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

I think people in here are underestimating Sonic. The fact that he is a huge underdog against Samus makes no sense to me. As I said earlier, that seems like one of the best "risks" to take if you want to win the contest, but I dislike Sonic so I'm still gonna have Samus winning.

As for Sonic getting 52% on Snake, I wouldn't expect it but I wouldn't be surprised either if it happened. It is certainly within the realm of possibility.

I believe that people are too willing to draw strong conclusions from not so large differences in the extrapolated rankings. Samus vs. Sonic will be very interesting though, that will tell us if Sonic really has dropped off like the rankings say.

Solid Snake can and would beat Sonic at will. Anyone who looks at the matches they each had against Aeris and says otherwise is a complete idiot.

But Aeris might've benefited slightly from Kingdom Hearts, and the difference isn't that huge anyway (56.54% vs. 53.02%).
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

Looks like therealmnm already said what I just posted.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

So, what happens to the thousands of sig bets you had riding on Mega Man?

I had only three, two for the Link match and one for Solid Snake, but I'll be sure to follow through on them if he loses.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

that will tell us if Sonic really has dropped off like the rankings say.

I really don't see why he wouldn't.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Because you wear Nintendo-colored glasses.

Honestly, Sonic beating Snake or Samus is far from impossible. You guys act like the percentage difference in the extrapolated can't be overcome and that the numbers are inerrant.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Because you wear Nintendo-colored glasses.

Or because Sonic and his company Sega haven't been on an uphill rise in many years.

Honestly, Sonic beating Snake or Samus is far from impossible. You guys act like the percentage difference in the extrapolated can't be overcome and that the numbers are inerrant.

Yet you tell me not to let my Mega Man bias get in the way when I said Zero would beat Tidus because of the 1% different.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Yes, but only because you acted like Zero over Tidus was a sure thing.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

On an unrelated note, I find that your sig suits you very well right now.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Chill, guys. We're having all this discussion about what characters are the true elites and what the true strengths of some characters are based on data that's almost a full year old. Let's wait til the contest comes back and we get some new data to kick Sonic out of anything, or to be so sure either way about this mystical "Kingdom Hearts Factor".
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

It will take a miracle for Sonic to beat Samus.

It's been TEN YEARS since Sonic had a well-received game (S3&K.) That's a full friggin' DECADE.

Samus, on the other hand, only continues to gain popularity. The Metroid series has literally doubled in size since Samus and Sonic last met, and each of her new games have been excellent. Hell, Metroid has gained so much popularity over the last two years that Nintendo is now relying on Metroid Prime 2 to push sales during the holidays (one could also make a case for Paper Mario 2, but I don't think it's hard to figure out which game is receiving more attention.)

Hell, if Sonic couldn't beat Samus when she hadn't had a new game for 8 years, what makes you think that he can beat the revitalized Samus?
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Tidus/Shadow is my only concern at the moment. I know I won't have a perfect bracket, but I feel I've done all the studying I can.

Tidus/Shadow is harder for me to pick than Crono/Mario and Link/Cloud.
---
Blessed are the young for they shall inherit the national debt.
- President Hoover

You people are joking, right? I told you all that Magus would beat Sonic last year before we even had a correctly done extrapolated standing. Sonic's status doesn't mean anymore than Lara's or Crash's. Sonic is strong because he had great games and still has decent ones, nothing more. People don't vote for him because he is an icon of some sort, if they did Mario couldn't lose the contest. Status means nothing, and you sound rediculous trying to argue that it does. Master Chief has status, Jill has status, BOMBERMAN PAN-MAN have status. They are all midtier at best. It takes a lot more than status to be that close to the top, and due to that fact you should be intelligent enough to figure out that Sonic's status isn't going to give him a win over Magus and certainly not Snake.

"ChichiriMuyo if Sonic and Magus were to verse each other who would you predict to win?"

Same character I picked last year when we were using an incorrectly created extrapolated standing, Magus. Back then the math disagreed with me, turns out it was done wrong and I was right. .02% or not, Magus sits ahead of Sonic in the standings now and I feel like there is fair reason that Magus performed lower than he could have.

"Didn't that play a factor in Aeris' performance in 2003 if it contributed to Squall, Cloud, and Sephiroth?"

The data clearly shows that Aeris was almost completely unchanged. She's as steady as Link.

"You guys act like the percentage difference in the extrapolated can't be overcome "

Tell that to the people who think I'm crazy for picking Crono over Link.

"Hell, if Sonic couldn't beat Samus when she hadn't had a new game for 8 years, what makes you think that he can beat the revitalized Samus?"

damn right.


---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

*and PAC-MAN
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

And yes, almost unchanged is an overstatement based in the idea that she wasn't helped nearly as much as everyone else. Just wanna clear that up before someone starts throwin' a fit.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Tell that to the people who think I'm crazy for picking Crono over Link.

You are? Wow... What made you decide to do that?

Speaking of today's poll, is anyone else starting to feel a little more uneasy about Jill/Ryu?
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

Why would you feel uneasy due to today's poll?
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

On a somewhat off-topic note, whatever happened to solarshadow?
---
Official Fire Emblem fanboy

Probably because resident evil 4 is in it and is beating metroid prime 2 for second place. I'm still going with ryu though, as these polls don't make a difference to me.


---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia and Zone of the Enders:FoM

RE is only behind LoZ

also Solar is only here during the contest he leaves during the off-season. I think someone should tell him that the contest will be on soon
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

And RE4 has nothing to do with Jill.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

I was about to say, RE4 =/= Jill.
---
Moltar's Comics - http://www.stripcreator.com/comics/Moltar
Moltar Fact 8: Moltar likes to play GunBound in his spare time.

Yah, but it shows that Jill still has her fans
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

How do you get that? All it shows is that people are anticipating a very good looking Resident Evil 4. I'm even looking forward to that and I could careless about Jill.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

"You are? Wow... What made you decide to do that?"

I'm crazy :)
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

How do you get that? All it shows is that people are anticipating a very good looking Resident Evil 4. I'm even looking forward to that and I could careless about Jill.

I thought that the RE series were very hated here on Gamefaqs.
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

HM, how far is the Blue Bomber goin' in your bracket now? I'm intruiged to know.
---
Supporting both Earthworm Jim AND Mega Man in 2004
Spring Contest Score: 151/192

The RE series is not hated.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

"You are? Wow... What made you decide to do that?"

I'm crazy :)

Well will you tell people after the brackets are locked down? I want to know =P.

RE was never hated here
---
Currently Playing: Skies of Arcadia and Zone of the Enders:FoM

I might dwelve into the details later on, but right now I prefer not to reveal what change(s) I've made.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

well, its not to illogical to think that resident evil fans would vote for Jill if they vote for Resident Evil 4 today. Of course it doesn't really change much, but if you were a staunch Ryu supporter, maybe it could open up your eyes a bit.

Also, Squall is most likely going to be fighting Cloud, and he's, by the chart, expected to get around 30%. Does anyone think that could happen, even with sff? I hope it does, and that he does better than that, but what are the odds for sff in that match?
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Mario, Mario Mario. You do this every contest, it seems.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Who doesn't change their winner at least once per contest?
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Me.
---
I'm a LUEser now.

As usual, LUEsers don't count. >>;

This is the first time i've done a contest, but im pretty confident about my choices.......
---
Sigs are overrated.

i was wondering how long it would take people to ridicule that sig.
---
I'm a LUEser now.

Simple premise: In the spring contest CT beat Mario's best game. If it can do that, then its lead can beat Mario. Maybe with the site redesign the winds have changed in favor of Crono. As for beating Link, We've never seen Crono direct with Link. As far as we know A > B and B > C means A > C... but there's always a chance for oddball exceptions. We have seen Crono beat Link's second best game, though, and we can also see that CT is rather close to OoT in the Sp contest. Clearly enough, should you assume CT did not face any SFF then OoT would win easily, however... If CT DID suffer from SFF it could have been a lot close in a direct matchup. How close, we can't tell. But there's a chance. Crono and his game actually seem to be on the rise, and with such a great performance in the Sp contest there may have even been new people playing it in the last few months.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

^^^^^^ What does this have to do with anything in this contest?
---
Sigs are overrated.

Now, now I don't believe Crono has anything settled as far as beating Mario.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Bigboi, if you're talking to me... please, for the love of god, stop. It's more than apparent.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

If you are saying that Crono is going to beat Mario then you need to stop.......
---
Sigs are overrated.

Is anything settled? No. Would I still give the edge to Crono? Yes.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Crono and Mario have an equal chance at beating each other.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Yup Mario vs. Crono is still anybodies game
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

LOL. Son, you have no idea. The two have been so close you can't dare say that Mario is destined to win. He has barely won the last two times, and most peopel are certain that Mario managed to cheat in the second one in a way that ceej just couldn't detect. Crono is on the rise.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

If you are saying that Crono is going to beat Mario then you need to stop.......

In two direct match-ups, there has been a 250 TOTAL vote difference. That's 250 out of 250,000. None of the experienced predictors here have ever made a statement that bold, so really.... what the hell are you trying to prove?
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Ummmm im not experienced. This is my first contest. I'm just going for who won the last two times.
---
Sigs are overrated.

"what the hell are you trying to prove?"

That he's crazy enough to believe that status means more than voting blocks, obviously.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Chrono Trigger's run was great in the Spring Contest, but to like it you don't have to come close to liking Crono not only that but he was weaker than his one game while Mario was stronger than any one of his. Mario has such a varied selection of games that to vote Super Mario World in a match against Chrono Trigger but turn around and vote Chrono Trigger in the SMB3 match isn't all to uncommon.

The only thing I could see possibly favoring Crono would be the poll position this time around. I'm not willing to put Mario at a loss to Crono though.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

Not to mention that there are many people that like Chrono Trigger the game but don't vote for Crono cause he's a generic mute. I fit into that category, and I presume that others do as well.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

"he was weaker than his one game while Mario was stronger than any one of his."

That's assuming that CT's influence isn't increasing. There is fair enough reason to believe that it could be. If it is, then your statements are void.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

There. That's your Top 10, with Frog being the most likely to crack into it this year. And honestly, these suggestions for names are getting really stupid. I think we should simply create a Top 10 (the most common number for elite lists) and end it.

I got the board patent on Top 10 Lists :) All started with the top ten reasons starcraft would win against SSBM..one of my funniest posts in spring!

Ulti, I grant you permission to make a Top 10 Elite character list! :)
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

I love how smitelf, Heroic Mario, and myself are left out of the group of smart people!

Forgot me too, buddy! Hell I got a college degree too...
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

If there is an increase of Chrono Trigger being played that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be voting for Crono.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

he was weaker than his one game while Mario was stronger than any one of his
Comparing relative strengths of games and their characters shows nothing, as we have no way to prove that these statements are true. For all we know, Mario could be much more hated in comparison to SMB3.
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Forgot me too, buddy! Hell I got a college degree too...

>_>

<_<
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Yeah, and if a crap-load of people played FFX they wouldn't necessarily vote for Tidus... I mean, hell, have you heard any FFX fans say they like Tidus? Nevertheless, he receives the votes you'd expect out of a FF lead. Playing the game doesn't mean they will vote for Crono, but it makes it highly likely.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

If there is an increase of Chrono Trigger being played that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be voting for Crono.

Funny u mention this..but my Frog support has got me to replay the game...am in Prehistoria right now :)

Such a good game...though Crono is still a generic spiky haired katana wielding teeny bopper!
---
Steve Illumina: The Official Satirical Commentator of GameFAQ's Contests
Frog over Snake...Believe it fanboys!

People need to realize that a lot of people who don't use the message boards vote in these contest, and some of them probably don't even know who in the hell Crono is. Also Mario is in much more games than Crono. Mario also has a couple of new games coming out so they may also help out. So I still believe Mario has a slight edge over Crono.
--
Sigs are overrated.

"though Crono is still a generic spiky haired katana wielding teeny bopper!"

And some people wonder why I have so much faith in him!
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

I mean, hell, have you heard any FFX fans say they like Tidus? Nevertheless, he receives the votes you'd expect out of a FF lead.

This still confuses me greatly.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

The only reason I would say such is due to the other characters who talk, have personality, etc. two of them being in this contest.

I'm not sure that it would do anything to increase, not saying it wouldn't though, it'd blow my mind to see him stronger than his game.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

As far as Mario games go the only one that has come out over the past year that could possibly do anything at all to his popularity would be Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga and even that is a long shot despite selling pretty well.

Mario's just has to bide his time until Super Mario 128.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

People need to realize that a lot of people who don't use the message boards vote in these contest, and some of them probably don't even know who in the hell Crono is.

This is a pointless argument, as the past three contests have proven that Crono has enough support to get him very far.
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Mario's popularity is at a level where it can't increase from anything but an actual Mario game (Sunshine, 128, etc). Spin offs aren't going to do anything for him. Also, he had the name recognition and more games advantage over Crono the last two years. That didn't help him secure any convincing wins. I just feel Crono improved in 2003 (he was leading all day, I remember HM even admitting it was out of reach), and he can put it away this year. Don't be surprised to see a Crono victory by over 51%.
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

"People need to realize that a lot of people who don't use the message boards vote in these contest,"

We've been over that a million times. We know already. We also know that when a board poll is held and one side is clearly favored that side usually wins, no matter how unlikely it would seem, as long as people vote according to who they think will win as opposed to who they want to win. Currently the board favors Crono by a clear margin.

"and some of them probably don't even know who in the hell Crono is."

Right, because a no-namer can just waltz up to Mario and nearly beat him two years in a row.

"Also Mario is in much more games than Crono."

Lot of good that has done him so far. Mario's million games to Crono's one and they are still practically equal.

"Mario also has a couple of new games coming out so they may also help out."

If Sunshine couldn't make Mario dominate over Crono then none of the new Mario games coming out will, nor will any of the ones from the last year.

"So I still believe Mario has a slight edge over Crono."

I, and most others, believe you're wrong.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Sunshine could never help Mario because it sucked ass.
---
Sigs are overrated.

Don't be surprised to see a Crono victory by over 51%.

That'd be a rather decent increase from 2003 to 2004, wouldn't you say? If Mario does lose I couldn't possible imagine over 51% in favor of Crono.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

"it'd blow my mind to see him stronger than his game."

Remember two things:
1 - He could be on the rise, as I've said, and if he is then of course he'd look stronger than his game. That doesn't mean he would be, it'd just mean that the spring data has lost some relevance.

2 - Comparisons between Summer and Spring contests are akward, to say the least, and some things don't hold up between the two. Samus is a heavyweight, Metroids are middle weights.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

"Sunshine could never help Mario because it sucked ass."

Your OPINION is duly noted, but casually dismissed. SMS was actually a very good game, IMO.
---
Official Fire Emblem fanboy

OK. Compared to SM64, Sunshine sucked ass.
---
Sigs are overrated.

"Sunshine could never help Mario because it sucked ass."

Funny you'd say that, as it's his fourth most popular game on this site losing only to SMB3, SMW, and SM64. It beat out everything else including the original, Mario 2, Yoshi's Island, so on and so forth. In addition, it's concievably possible that Sunshine is what gave Mario enough edge to surpress Cloud.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

I think the factor for him to increase it a little out of reach personally but we'll find out.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

"OK. Compared to SM64, Sunshine sucked ass."

I figured you'd say that. While I wouldn't say SMS "sucked ass" compared to SM64, it certainly wasn't as good. Perhaps a little more diversity in the level's would have made the game much better, rather than the good but overused "beach" themes.
---
Official Fire Emblem fanboy

Super Mario Sunshine wasn't a bad game, just when you compare it to Super Mario 64 it doesn't measure up as much. Alone it isn't bad.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

HM - Clarify, I don't understand ya.
Bigboi - Stop trolling, Sunshine has its fair share of fans.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

Well, if I read correctly, for Crono to increase your banking on people who haven't played Chrono Trigger to see it do well in the contest, try it, like it, and then vote for Crono. Unless I interpreted something wrong along the way.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

I'm not trolling. I'm just stating my opinions. If you don't like them, just ignore them.
---
Sigs are overrated.

Obviously it is way to early to tell who is going to win, but it seems as if i am the only who even thinks Mario has a chance of winning...................
---
Sigs are overrated.

Oh, that makes sense, but no... that's not wha tI'm banking on when it coems to Mario vs. Crono. For that I'm merely relying on the obvious, last we knew Crono and crew beat Mario's best. Maybe the contests are that much different, or maybe things have changed in favor of Crono. We'll have to wait a while before we can find out, but eventually we will.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

but it seems as if i am the only who even thinks Mario has a chance of winning...................

Ahem.
---
"Darn... your optimism led... to your own... demise..." - Zero

My bad. Your name says it all.....
---
Sigs are overrated.

Mario can win, I suppose, but it'll take some monumental shift in power, because right now Link, Cloud and Sephiroth are in an entirely different league than all the rest of the elite characters.
---
Official Fire Emblem fanboy

Well, compared to the Mario standard, Sunshine is considered to be a disappointment. It's not a bad game, but it's certainly not on par with the likes of Mario 64 or Mario World.

Again, I find it difficult to believe that Mario could significantly increase in popularity. If you play video games and you don't know who he is, you should be shot. What can he possibly do to make people change their minds about him? He's not an RPG character, so he doesn't get any development. People can love his games without caring for him.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

"I'm just stating my opinions."

An opinion is "I think SMS sucked"

You can say that. However, what you have done is not stating an opinion but stating an opinion as fact and stating it as such in a way insulting to fans of the game. By the TOS that is trolling.
---
I want to Laugh, I want to Play, I want to watch the sunset in the sky. I just want to know a better life before I die - Solar Twins: Better Life

People who don't even play video games know who Mario is.......
---
Sigs are overrated.

"Again, I find it difficult to believe that Mario could significantly increase in popularity."

Conversely, I also can't see Mario losing significantly in popularity.
---
Official Fire Emblem fanboy

Ok. I understand. I was severely disappointed by Mario Sunshine.
---
Sigs are overrated.

500 +?!
---
5/24/04 6:56-6:57 PM #5 I helped LUE count to 10!!!