You know how it works by now. This is being posted before the other topic closes, so no mention of the 500th posters this time around.

Stats websites:

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com
Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/2003/index.html
Spring 2004 Contest: (not currently updating)
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/sp2004/index.html

Stats topics:

Summer 2002 Contest:
http://solarshadow2002.tripod.com/page1.html
Summer 2003 Contest:
http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com/archive/topic1p1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/sum_contest/Page1.htm (See note)
2003-2004 Off-Season:
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/stats1.htm (See note)
Note: Don't use the links in the topic to browse through the pages, change the page number in the URL.
Spring 2004 Pre-Season:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason3.htm
Spring 2004 Contest:
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats1.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats2.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats3.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats4.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats5.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats6.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats7.htm
http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringStats8.htm
Summer 2005 Contest
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14833948 (until purge)

!yawA tsoP
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Cool, cool.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Actually, I don;t know how it works, I just started posing here now =p

I'll play to stay in here.
Kthxhi.
---
Support Sonic in SC2K4!
Picking up a N-Gage QD is bad luck, no matter heads or tails.

You're not winning this time Ulti.
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

You're not winning this time Ulti.

Oooooohhhhh...... ZING!
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

www.ohnoes.org
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh no respect at all </Rodney>
---
Support Sonic in SC2K4!
Picking up a N-Gage QD is bad luck, no matter heads or tails.

Its on now!
---
Remember Dr T? Now he's back, in POG FORM!
Proud supporter of Viewtiful Joe!

Speaking of which, we can`t forget this:

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Lol. But seriously, what do you think about your chances of winning the contest or the Guru list again, Ulti?
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

Oh ya, that list. What's that for, anyway? Am I supposed to do anything?
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

I'm soooo winning this time around. ^_^

---
Angst! Does a body good.
My dermatologist says its not good to have things crawling in your skin. - Notre Game

I don't post much, but I'm game.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
---
"We seek as much data - raw facts, direct experience - as we can, and then we make up our own minds." - J. Moore

I'm soooooo confused right now >_<
---
Support Sonic in SC2K4!
Picking up a N-Gage QD is bad luck, no matter heads or tails.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40- WiggumFan267
---
Support Sonic in SC2K4!
Picking up a N-Gage QD is bad luck, no matter heads or tails.

Summer 2005 Contest

Um...no?
---
"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

None of you are winning because I'm entering. ^_~
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

None of you are winning because I'm entering. ^_~

Already planning on dragging us down with you?
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Is this for the guru challenge? Whatever. I am signing it.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40- WiggumFan267
41- perdevious
---
Ah, the internet. Where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents. ~ WarDemonX

None of you are winning because I'm entering. ^_~

Wooooohooohooo...... ZINGER!
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

What's the guru challenge?

The guru challenge is a sig challenge. You might still see some people praising me in their sigs after getting beat down in the last contest.

Basically, the person with the highest contest score wins. Everyone else has to honor the winner in their sig. Simple enough, no?

And I suck for putting SC2K5 up there. My mistake.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Already planning on dragging us down with you?

Hey now, I didn't do terrible in the Spring Contest and I'll have you know Mega Man is going to own you all. =p
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Lol. But seriously, what do you think about your chances of winning the contest or the Guru list again, Ulti?

I like them. I have picked two key upsets late in the contest that could really own the hell out of the leaderboard if they come through.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

What if (I know this probably won't happen, but it might) no one makes it into the Top 50? Do we just go on word of honor?
---
My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Exhibit A right here. Say, do we still have to submit our brackets like before? I haven't seen Ngamer so I don't know if we're doing it that way again.
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

We'll submit our brackets, last time it was to Ngamer, showing what we have and the points are kept from there.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Hey now, I didn't do terrible in the Spring Contest and I'll have you know Mega Man is going to own you all. =p

Full credit to you for picking Mega Man - i still think Link is going to take him down without undue effort, but Mega is definetely making the top four this year.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Basically, the person with the highest contest score wins. Everyone else has to honor the winner in their sig. Simple enough, no?

For how long, and can there be other things in the sig? Not that I've ever had much in my sig...

Oh yeah, and by entering the guru challenge, does that mean we shouldn't submut our brackets to Slow for the BOP? Not that I've finalized mine yet...

Anyways, to add some input to the discussion: I think Vivi will take DK rather easily. DK has been historically very weak (here at GameFAQs, that is) and has won only by slim margins. Vivi has a lot of the FF support, though FF9 is not one of the most popular FFs, but he is also a cool retro black mage.

As for Ness vs. Jak, it's hard to say, because the Earthbound following here isn't huge (as we saw in Spc2k4), but he might pick up a few votes from SSB and SSBM fans (which did much better than expectations in aforementioned Spc2k4). Jak, on the other hand, has starred in two very well done plaformers/adventures and will get a bunch of the PS votes. It's a question of how the rest of the Nintendo votes and all the other misc. votes (Sega, XBox, etc.) split. I'm going to guess Jak, but it could very well go the other way.

Huh? Summer 2005 contest? Okay, someone mentioned it, already. :P Man, where has solarshadow been? 2 years ago, solarshadow actually posted the majority of the messages...

Yesmar, will you start up the prediction percentage contest for Summer 2004?

*signs up for the Guru Challenge, finally* I keep forgetting.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40- WiggumFan267
41- perdevious
42- Haste2

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

For how long, and can there be other things in the sig? Not that I've ever had much in my sig...

2 weeks minimum. You can choose to keep in longer.

Oh yeah, and by entering the guru challenge, does that mean we shouldn't submut our brackets to Slow for the BOP? Not that I've finalized mine yet...

Brackets submissions for the Guru haven't don't seem to be finalized yet. You should probably send one copy to Slowflake and check back in this topic for updates to the Guru challenge.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel

I'm game.
---
His grace, Sir YokeI, duke of USL.

Could someone fill me in as to how the Guru challenge works?
---
The below statement is opinion.
The above statement is fact.

Let's add some quality to that list :p

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
---
Supporting Nintendo for this year's Summer Contest!

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45- MasterMage119

I won't mind having you all praise me ^_^
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Could someone fill me in as to how the Guru challenge works?

It's a challenge open to pretty much anybody who posts or read messages in this topic. Everybody who signs up submits their bracket and tiebreaker. After the contest ends, the person with the best bracket wins(ties are broken using the tiebreaker). All the losers must but something like "______ is my god!" in their sig for a minimum of two weeks(where _____ is the winner's username). It doesn't have to be "______ is my god!", you can also do something else.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Thx, TRE. Sounds simple enough. I'm in.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
---
The below statement is opinion.
The above statement is fact.

When and how do we submit our bracket? E-Mail or do we post it here?
---
Supporting Nintendo for this year's Summer Contest!

When and how do we submit our bracket? E-Mail or do we post it here?

I don't think it's been decided yet. For the Spring contest we sent it by email. I'm not sure who collecting the brackets yet. The deadline will be around July 31, so there is still lots of time.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
---
Chrono Trigger ~ Zelda ~ Final Fantasy VI
The TriForce of Gaming Greatness.

I am up for running the Guru Challenge, if y'all are fine with that. Aside from having way too much free time, another pastime of mine is loving to compile statistics. If this is cool with everyone, just let me know and I will put up an email address y'all can send your brackets to on August 1 (I don't want to see anyone else's before that, obviously).
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

0 - Tequilla Gundam
1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
--
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei

I'm fine with 2 weeks. :)
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

I just thought of something. What if the shift of the Contest poll to a place where not everyone can see it changes the voting consensus enough that it throws a good part of the data collected in the past two years for a loop?

---
KOS-MOS' head pops off with a loud SPROING! noise, dangling somewhere around her knees and bobbing up and down on a long spring
-http://mooncalf.org

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf

What a horrible time to be moving...I'm missing all the action around here! Bah...
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

Whoa. Look at that. As of now, 49 people will be posting with my name in their sig come the end of this contest.

^_~
---
My dermatologist says its not good to have things crawling in your skin. -Notre Game

This topic has become something of a sign-up topic rather than discussion it would sem.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Well if someone wins, doesn't that sorta make it obvious who wins the challenge and eliminate the purpose of e-mailing the brackets?
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Wins the actual contest I mean.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Okay, I've done a five-minute version of my bracket (i.e. cursory and subject to change) and I've currently got Link, Megaman, Cloud and Samus as my final four, with Link and Cloud duking it out in the final match and Link emerging victorious.
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

^^That's a typical bracket. However, as some elite contest participants said, you must expect the unexpected.

For me, I plan to put 2 "surprises" in my bracket that hopefully few others have. Guess what they are? :)
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

For the last time CATS is not going to win a match!
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

I'll join.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
---
Proud supporter of Viewtiful Joe in SC2K4!

I just thought of something. What if the shift of the Contest poll to a place where not everyone can see it changes the voting consensus enough that it throws a good part of the data collected in the past two years for a loop?

Yep, a possibility worth considering. I'm not sure if it really could have a huge effect--most matches after the layout change in the Spring went the way they were shaping up to go beforehand (exception: CT loses to LttP with the poll at the top of the page, below is why).

Still, 20,000 votes are lost, and the majority of those will be from "casual" bracketless voters just passing through on the way to the latest FAQ. That seems like the sort of voter who would favor the mainstream characters over the more niche ones simply because they had never heard of the latter. They probably aren't as uneducated as that makes them seem, but I wouldn't be surprised if this could make the difference in an otherwise close match...

Now, whatever could possibly be an important match where a mainstream character is well-documented as needing all the help he can get in narrowly overcoming a somewhat niche opponent, hmm?
---
Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html

Sure, I'll join the Guru challenge again.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
---
Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html

I don't see the loss of 20000 voters as being something that could be a massive percentage change, but Its obvious that some effect will occur. It may be small, but for fairly close matches a swing of a few percent can cause havoc for brackets.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

If you ask me, the poll position is going to kill Mario. ='(
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Yup.

That might explain some of the rational behind the current BoP standings - mario couldn't afford any loss at all, and the 20000 lost votes were probably more likely to vote for the plumber than crono.
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

My humble opinions:

¤EFFECTS¤

New game hype: Hype of a new game does no real impact unless one is totally enthusiastic about it. Don't count on new game hypes to provide for more than 2% change.
Anti-Repeat factor: With the 2002 Mario vs Link, it seemed Nintendo took it over, but in 2003, Sephiroth vs Cloud was a big square thing. The conclusion? None. There is little anti-repeat factor. If I am a fanboy of Crono Trigger, I will always be, even after Crono wins 3 times. Of course, there are a few individuals that stay in a neutral position, so when one hero wins, they side slightly with the other.
Bracket-voters: Yes, there's a good number of these guys on this board. However, this is not a real big factor either, because the majority of gamefaqs who signed up did for fun. However, since some people are whining about how this year's bracket seems easier, we may have a bit MORE confident bracket-voters.
Fanboism: This can play a big role in many parts, even in determining brackets. If I was a CT fanboy, I would pick Crono beating Mario even with uncertainty. Fanboism easily beats bracket-voting. A user has more confidence in his "hero" winning than his bracket winning. Some people have argued this site is a Square and Nintendo fanboy headquarters, but there is no proof of that.

¤Getting the Points¤

As the contest progresses, more points are awarded. The final match is worth as much as all of round one combined. Thus, more time should be spent considering the Sweet 16, the elite 8, the final four, and the finals. Though I hate to discourage you, I'll say that you probably won't win. Maybe top 50, but not top 10. The best thing to do is make your bracket, while expecting surprises, and contest upsets. It then becomes a "swim or sink" deal. There's no floating, there's no or swallowing water trying to swim. You either get remembered for a good rank, or sink in with the flow.

¤Match Recommendations¤

After doing some serious board lurking, here are my results:
Jak over Ness.
Vivi over DK.
Vyse over Laharl
Frog over Liquid
HK-47 over Sora
Shadow over Tidus
Ryu over Jill
ROUND 2:
Luigi over Yoshî
Zero over Tommy
Frog over MC

Thanks for tuning in. =)

first of all, sorry i haven't had much time lately to through me input in. i read pretty much all of the last topic and that was come good stuff.

secondly:

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko

anyone else think we're getting an awful lot of people in on this, lol?

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Yeah, there are currently more in the Guru Challenge than the BoP, which is the opposite of last year. Perhaps people are just waiting to the end to enter the BoP, and it's pretty easy to enter the Guru Challenge. When was the GC started last year? Same time?

I suggest that next time, the guru contest is taken care of in a separate topic, taking a page from the wrestling board, where the PPV topics were overrun by discussion about audio play-by-play provided by a certain site: after many complaints, the audio PBP got its own topic.

Heh, not to worry, the BOP is up to a very good start. Over 40 brackets (I got a few in my inbox, as well as changes to some that are already in) after 2 days, and many saying they'll wait a bit... I'm sure we're beating this spring's 102.

Tomorrow, two things coming your way, from yours truly:

1. A rearranged SC2K4 bracket, with the exact same 64 contestants, but redone to make the seeding look more credible, while keeping as many matches as possible intact.

2. The first version of the BOP point value chart.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Meh, sure, sounds fun. (-:

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
---
steve illumina: If Final Fantasy had a mascot, it would be a moogle.
Ulti: If Final Fantasy had a mascot, it would be a dollar sign.

If you ask me, the poll position is going to kill Mario. ='(

Crono will need to get past Magus first. In my opinion, that match may be affected more than any other by the new layout, as Crono is clearly the more mainstream choice, and Magus the one with a rabid fanbase. The new layout should give supporting characters a small boost against main characters. Most everyone I know prefers Magus, so this upset is a very real possibility in my opinion.

I wouldn't hesitate to pick Magus if only Mario weren't the very next opponent, so I'm still undecided.:/ There will probably be a lot of votes for Crono just to see that match.

I don't think the masses care about the Mario/Crono setup, layout change or not.

Now, that's why picking Crono to beat Mario isn't exactly the brightest choice: should Magus upset Crono with SFF, Mario gets a free pass to the Elite 8.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

yeah, i agree with Slowflake about the Guru challenge. i'll be sending you my bracket, too, Slow, but it'll be a bit. ;)

thirdly, i'm kinda in the same boat as Ulti about not divulging all of my picks this early. i mean, people tend to forget that this is a COMPETITION. i've never been one to go out of my way to give my opponents extra advantages. i'm not gonna be a jerk and go out and give people false information, but i'm not giving my opinion on all of the tough matches, either. at least, not until the brackets are finalized.

fourthly, is it just me or is this contest way more predictable than the last three (including Spring2K4)? each of the other brackets had me still debating matches in my head all month. but i've already got this bracket filled out and there's only about seven matches i haven't truly settled on yet. and each of those matches i haven't settled on yet all involve new characters, which are the hardest matches to gauge.

here, i'll say this much. i believe these are the toughest matches are to predict:

Frog vs. Liquid Snake
Frog/Liquid vs. Master Cheif
Viewtiful Joe vs. Tails
V. Joe/Tails vs. Dante
Sora vs. HK-47
Ryu Hayabusa vs. Jill Valentine
Sora/HK-47 vs. Ryu H./Jill

oh, and Mario vs. Crono part 3.

anyone who's been paying attention to the last few contests or knows the extrapolation formula (or better yet, has ever been to creativename's very infomative site) should be able to accurately predict the majority of the matches. a few of the other matches can and probably will be close, but i'm yet to hear any reasons why any upsets will occur.

in fact, the input i've seen on these two matches surprises me the most. these two have been irritating me so much that i have to say something:

Tidus vs. Shadow - so, what, did everyone forget that Sonic whooped Tidus in 2K2? Tidus only managed 41.2% against Sonic. now, after Shadow came as close to beating Mario as Sonic was expected to. and after seeing Super Mario World destroy Sonic 2, it's hard to imagine Sonic doing much better than Shadow did. that means that Tidus has some ground to make up. and FFX was definitely more popular two years ago than it is now (as seen by the most popular FF game polls), and Tidus was never the most popular character in the game anyways.

now, i know that they are very close in the extrpolated standings, but i still believe that the characters in Mario's part of the bracket took a beating there, because Mario was weaker in his match against Sephiroth than he was in his matches against Shadow and Crono. how so? well, Mario was running strong, but after his very questionable win over Crono, i believe that a significant number of voters (myself included) decided not to support a character that didn't win legitimately. if Mario had won against Crono totally legitimately, he would have done much better against Sephiroth, also raising Crono and Shadow's standings. therefore Shadow would be at least a point or two higher than Tidus.

even if you refuse my second point there, it's hard to believe that Tidus can make up that 17.6 percentage point gap that Sonic left him with. even if Shadow is a little bit weaker than Sonic, there is no way he is THAT much weaker and there have been no signs that Tidus has increased in popularity, especially by THAT much.

advantage - Shadow



---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Ness vs. Jak - this is the other match that i can't believe is so split. why the heck are so many people taking Jak? have you seen what he looks like? (what is up with those ears?!) if there's a guy that could lose a picture advantage to Ness, it's Jak. now, who here honestly thinks Jak can be here any more popular than Ratchet? those two characters are very similar. they are both Sony PS2 mascot-type characters from action-platform games. (honestly, i still get the two mixed up sometimes.) i'd bet that there's plenty of people that couldn't even tell you which one is Ratchet and which one is Jak. heck, they both even look kinda similar. (what is with Sony and those huge ears?!) so, i seriously doubt that Jak can do any better than Ratchet.

now, i know Ness was a big failure last year, but what did you expect when he was matched up against Bowser? Ness's support comes from Earthbound and Super Smash Bros. and Bowser was bound to drain some (if not most) of that SSB support away. Jak doesn't have that extra bonus. despite that, Ness still did just as well against Bowser as Ratchet did against Luigi. and i believe that mostly everyone here will agree that Bowser would easily defeat Luigi. so, unless Jak is somehow miraculously more popular than Ratchet (which i suppose is possible, but i don't understand how he possibly could be), Ness will make an undeserved visit to the second round.

advantage - Ness

i know i said i didn't want to persuade people too much, but i had to give my point of view on those two matches, lol.

oh and as far as Frog goes, i still say that he is not that photogenic, but he's nowhere the ugly levels of Kefka. at least you know who Frog is when you see his pics. fortunately for Frog, his first two matches are against opponents that are not powerhouses. well, Liquid Snake might be, but he looks like the lead singer of Poison, so his pic won't do him any favors either. and Master Chief, well, he's a total wild card and his pic doesn't help him either. so Frog lucked out there. he could still make the Sweet Sixteen.

but, all of the yahoos who think that he will take out Solid Snake are in for a rude awkening. that's where his goofy green looks will kill him. all of the Frog fans on this board can't change the fact that he is indeed a Frog. and pictures of frogs do not have mainstream appeal, even if the frog does have a sword. =P

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

And I would add that there are some people who hate seeing the same matches over and over. That's why Kefka already has my vote. (I'd add Magus, but I'm already probably anti-voting Crono through the tourney)
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

hmmm, interesting. I too considered Crono vs Magus, but not for too long, heh, the final four concerns me much more!
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

I beg to differ, Cyko. Like it or not, most everyone in the 2002 West ranked too high for whatever reason. Effectively giving Tidus a big KH boost. It's commonly accepted that Ganondorf is within 1000 votes of Sonic at most.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

This is an extremely stupid n00b question, but what does "SFF" stand for? It sounds familiar, as if I knew it but then forgot. My brain has been warped in the past few months, mainly by ramune and donut holes.
---
"psp has touch screem" - youngfossil

now, i know that they are very close in the extrpolated standings, but i still believe that the characters in Mario's part of the bracket took a beating there, because Mario was weaker in his match against Sephiroth than he was in his matches against Shadow and Crono. how so? well, Mario was running strong, but after his very questionable win over Crono, i believe that a significant number of voters (myself included) decided not to support a character that didn't win legitimately. if Mario had won against Crono totally legitimately, he would have done much better against Sephiroth, also raising Crono and Shadow's standings. therefore Shadow would be at least a point or two higher than Tidus.

Actually, that point is horribly weak. If you use Link as standard in the standings, very few characters changed. The 5 FF characters, Alucard, Samus, all of which had few games before SC2K2 and got a new one in the off-season. The rest all stayed the same.

Including Mario.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Same Fanbase Factor.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

SFF = Same Fanbase Factor.

it's a term used to describe a matchup where two charcters who have a very similar fanbase are matched up against each other and the fanbase clearly favors one or the other. (ex. Kefka vs. Crono or Mario vs. D.K.)

usually, characters that become a victim of SFF would perform better against characters that don't share the same fanbase.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

It all makes sense now. Now I can add another term to my good vocabulary. This is really...good. Thank you.
---
"psp has touch screem" - youngfossil

cyko's argument for shadow is probably the best one i've heard...at least for the first half.
but it neglects the massive boost in popularity that nearly all the final fantasy characters gained between 2002 and 2003.
that and the fact that shadow isn't sonic against tidus lead me to believe that tidus can make up the difference.
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

Actually, that point is horribly weak. If you use Link as standard in the standings, very few characters changed. The 5 FF characters, Alucard, Samus, all of which had few games before SC2K2 and got a new one in the off-season. The rest all stayed the same.

Including Mario.

yeah, Mario was the same in his first three matches, but after his unearned victory over Crono, Mario lost some of his support. virtually noone wanted him to win against Sephiroth. this board kept screaming about that match until after the contest was over.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
---
Shake... You're my Honeybunch, Sugarplum Pumpy-umpy umpkin, You're my Sweetie Pie You're my Cuppycake, Gumdrop Snoogums-Boogums, You're the Apple of my Eye

and i still don't understand how Kingdom Hearts could have boosted Tidus so much. Cloud, Sephiroth, and even Squall i can understand, but Tidus was barely even in that game, he didn't play as significant a part as the other characters, and he was still a relatively new character. that one still doesn't make sense to me, lol.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Indeed, that's the best case I've seen for Shadow so far... and it's STILL horribly flawed.

IMO, only three things can put Shadow back in this:

1. Anti-Mario votes being non-existent.
2. Kingdom Hearts fading.
3. Sonic Heroes.

As far as I'm concerned, I doubt any of these are coming true: Servbot and Morrigan just did way too well, SC2K3 happened quite a long time after KH's release, and SH, much like DMC2, got boos and jeers. And while DMC2 didn't hurt Dante, it didn't help him either.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

About the Guru challenge, only our main account's bracket is eligible, right? Meaning, our alt's bracket isn't counted.
---
The below statement is opinion.
The above statement is fact.

More than likely, the casual voter didn't even realize what happened between Mario and Crono. Most of them don't frequent these boards or stay up until all hours of the night waiting for a new poll. Plus, there's the fact that revenge votes and anti-votes make up very little of the overall total.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

When I woke up that day and saw Tidus trailing by only 200 votes when everyone was expecting a slaughter, I knew we'd have a match that would be debated until the end of time.

Before I go to bed, I'll just point out that you speak as if this board actually mattered at all.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I need some help with Frog vs. Liquid Snake......
---
Support Sonic in SC2K4!
Picking up a N-Gage QD is bad luck, no matter heads or tails.

okay, so in the grand scheme of things, no this board doesn't matter. but this board can easily influence at least a thousand votes or so, which is enough to boost a character a point or two in the overall standings.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

1. Anti-Mario votes being non-existent.
2. Kingdom Hearts fading.
3. Sonic Heroes.

Anti-Mario? Nah, as I mentioned earlier, I really don't think there is such thing as anti-repeat votes. Revenge votes happens only with people who are up to date with this contest, sincerely care about it, and extremely pissed at Mario. That is NOT a big percentage of people.

Kingdom hearts lucked out early in SC2K3. Though it's still strong, it doesn't beat Nintendo's SSBM, which features Mario. Hype for a new game is not very strong unless it's already been released, OR, the previews are extremely good. You judge for Sonic Heroes.

About the Guru challenge, only our main account's bracket is eligible, right? Meaning, our alt's bracket isn't counted.

What talks of you?! Alt brackets?! I've never heard such folly!
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

I do believe that Tidus faces his next first round loss.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

While I think it's a minor factor at best, I would also mention that Shadow has had another game besides SH since SC2K3... Sonic Battle for the GBA. And in it, Shadow is so wickedly unbalanced it isn't funny. I don't think it sold well, but it did cater to an audience who might not have seen him before.
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

This year will be the first to see if Mario Anti-votes are true last year Donkey Kong (who get killed by SFF), Crono (had a rematch) and Cloud (big boast from KH) returned and those characters really didn't help us alot, but this year Shadow is here so he will show us how much Mario anti-votes (if any) Mario has

Also I have a new chart to show you

2003 Rankings with SFF token into account

1. Cloud - 50%
2. Link - 48.39%
3. Sephiroth - 48.11%
4. Mega Man - 37.35%
5. Mario - 36.95%
6. Crono - 36.91%
7. Samus - 36.72%
8. Solid Snake - 34.74%
9. Magus - 33.81%
10. Sonic - 33.79%
11. Ganondorf - 33.61%
12. Shadow - 33.18%
13. Tidus - 33.15%
14. Zero - 32.21%
15. Aeris - 31.75%
16. Squall - 30.70%
17. Bowser - 29.97%
18. Ryu - 29.69%
19. Zelda - 29.32%
20. Yoshi - 28.67%/
21. Auron - 28.13%*
22. Dante - 27.32%
23. Alucard - 26.67%
24. Knuckles - 25.61%
25. Kirby - 25.49%
26. Master Chief - 25.30%
27. Tommy Vercetti - 24.76%
28. Jill - 24.56%
29. Donkey Kong - 24.51%
30. Luigi - 24.43%
31. Scorpion - 23.94%
32. Felix - 23.81%
33. Sora - 23.67%/
34. Wario - 23.29%
35. Yuna - 22.89%
36. Sam Fisher - 22.82%
37. KOS-MOS - 22.21%
38. Lara - 22.11%
39. Ramza - 21.59%
40. Ken - 21.01%
41. Kefka - 20.09%*
42. Tails - 20.08%*
43. Pac-Man - 19.80%*
44. Bomberman - 18.96%
45. Vyse - 18.43%
46. Fox - 18.42%*
47. Isaac - 18.11%
48. Duke - 17.86%
49. Conker - 17.56%
50. Ness - 17.44%/
51. Raziel - 17.31%
52. Kite - 17.21%
53. Crash - 16.89%
54. Max - 16.67%
55. Gordon - 15.35%
56. Pikachu - 14.96%*
57. Raiden - 14.39%/
58. CATS - 13.09%
59. Ratchet - 12.44%
60. Ryo - 12.21%
61. Tom Nook - 10.48%
62. Captain Olimar - 8.55%
63. AiAi - 8.37%
64. Mr. Resetti - 8.25%

*Characters with SFF adjustments using past results
/Estimates SFF adjustments

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Darn! That new list won't let me mock Pikachu about how Raiden would beat him.
---
"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

I know and it also shows that Luigi vs. Pac-Man will be something like 58%-42%
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Personally, I think Tidus has probably lost power since last time. The plus the fact that Shadow at least stayed the same and may have even gotten a bit stronger makes it pretty easy to decide that Shadow should beat Tidus. After all, what has Tidus had for him lately?
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Out of curiosity, how did you account for SFF? It seems pretty hard to quantify. I notice that you didn't adjust Sephiroth's score, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he would do better than Cloud in a non-head to head match (the 2k2 results definitely bear that out).

---
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers

Kingdom Hearts
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Out of curiosity, how did you account for SFF? It seems pretty hard to quantify. I notice that you didn't adjust Sephiroth's score, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe he would do better than Cloud in a non-head to head match (the 2k2 results definitely bear that out).

Well if you ask me Cloud benifit alot from KH and Heavyweights don't suffer from SFF (maybe by 0.5%) I calculate most of the stuff on this chart

Difference in popularity from 2002-2003 (if Link 2002=2003)

Cloud +14.28%
Donkey Kong +11.84%
Squall +7.36%
Sephiroth +6.36%
Alucard +4.86%
Gordon +4.55%
Dante +3.21%
Aeris +2.19%
Crash +1.43%
Lara +1.04%
Duke +0.98%
Kirby +0.80%
Crono +0.71%
Mario +0.71%
Scorpion +0.71%
Solid Snake +0.67%
Max +0.59%
Tidus +0.45%
CATS +0.22%
Link 0.00%
Tails -0.33%
Knuckles -1.21%
Fox -1.45%
Jill -1.99%
Samus -3.13%
Bomberman -3.42%
Ryu -3.93%
Mega Man -4.32%
Pikachu -4.33%
Pac-Man -4.53%
Raziel -5.09%
Ryo -5.10%
Sonic -6.13%
Ken -6.78%

and I then listed all the matches that had SFF and if the losing character wasn't on the list I gave them the average of all the ones I did (which was 2.5) and I raise them up by that much. Also things to consider is the "West Division Factor" in 2002 which caused most of the characters to be stronger
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Out of curiosity, what is the deal with the West Division in 2002? I wasn't here then, so I have no clue what you're all referring to.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

I don't understand Same Fanbase Factor. Does it only apply to matches where both characters are from the same game or company?
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

Out of curiosity, what is the deal with the West Division in 2002? I wasn't here then, so I have no clue what you're all referring to.

Sephiroth seemed to have overperformed against Link. As a result almost everybody in the 2002 West division was ranked higher than they should have in the 2002 rankings. In 2003 they no longer had this boost and seemed to have gotten a lot weaker from 2002 to 2003.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

As you can see most on the returning western characters have gone down, but that was because of the Hype Link vs. Sephiroth match in the semi-finals which made Sephy and the whole west division look good. Most of us last year agreed that it was about 4% the strong charaters (Sonic, Samus, Mega Man and Sephiroth) gained. But other charaters also got a boost, but not as big
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I don't understand Same Fanbase Factor. Does it only apply to matches where both characters are from the same game or company?

For the most part, yes. SFF is not something that is always cut and dry. Kefka did really badly against Crono. Is it because of SFF, or is Kefka really that weak? Pac-man's rating is based of Kefka's ranting. It fell by a huge amount from 2002 to 2003. Based on this, it would seem Kefka underperformed by a large amount against Crono which is credited to SFF.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I need some help with Frog vs. Liquid Snake......

i think most people are a little unsure about this match...but frog seems to be the favorite.
crono beat snake in 2002...and magus seemed to get a lot of his support.

even if frog flops...i don't think liquid will do very well.
he's an endboss that isn't even mentioned until halfway through his six-year-old game.
twin snakes might save him...but i highly doubt it.

but i don't think frog will flop. ...at least not entirely.
i imagine crono, magus and frog will end up being like cloud, sephiroth and aeris.
cloud and crono are the champs...
sephiroth and magus are close seconds...
and frog and aeris are fairly close thirds, who get most but not all of the support.
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

wait a second... i never played MGS2. was Liquid Snake even in that one? i was under the impression that he was.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

I have a question about the Tails vs. V. Joe argument, you see, Veiwtiful Joe is the hero in a revolutionary game, and the sequal is coming out, along with a Ps2 port. Pretty impressive, as he is a great character as well, it would seem he deserves his seed.

Now I ask you, what has Tails done to increase his popularity in the past two years? He has lost every match he's had, he can't beat Joe.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

I think Joe goes as far as beating Dante.
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the week= jilt¤ to reject a lover

The people who come on the site will far more easily recognize Tails.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

True, but if that were true, then we would have one at least one of his other matches.
---
Now a proud Rider of Lohan.

The people who come on the site will far more easily recognize Tails.

Yes the causual vote will go to Tails, but since the new layout the causual vote has gone down
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Pac-man's rating is based of Kefka's ranting.

XD

I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out... lol XD.

Ranting? I mean raving! Stop mcoking my typos!
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Tails has lost to Auron and Alucard. Losing to Auron is an obvious one since he is Final Fantasy and losing to Alucard isn't that bad, especially considering the percentage difference. I think V. Joe will be quite a bit weaker than Alucard has been. I doubt he would be able to beat Kirby.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Well Joe could end up like Magus taking out everything and having a great match with Link, but he could also Flop like Vercetti did. So what I did was put him in the middle beating Tails and losing to Dante
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I'm thinkin' he's a flop. I mean, Magus is from a popular game and was a power house. Thing is, VERCETTI was ALSO from a very popular game and flopped like a rabid moose. Viewtiful Joe isn't exactly the same tier of popularity as Grand Theft Auto.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I say Donkey Kong will beat Vivi.

Let's do a little comparing for a moment:
FFX > FFIX, obviously

Now, let's compare the heroes of both FFIX and FFX to their fan favorites.

Tidus is lame, yet he's still stronger than the oh-so-cool Auron. Zidane isn't as lame as Tidus, even though Vivi is great.

So, that means Auron should be closer to Tidus than Vivi is to Zidane...

Considering Zidane probably isn't exactly the strongest FF character himself, how could Vivi win?

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

If Aya Brea can match DK, Vivi should be able to do at least that.
---
"Delicious morsel! Let me get my bib...!" - Ultros
Proud member of the CATS Army!

I am actually expecting Aya Brea to be at least as strong as Vivi. At least Aya Brea was the main gal in one of the bigger Square games. Heck, Aya Brea is more popular than Ramza.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Someone just tell me where to send the bracket when the contest opens on August 1. I'm just going to read until the contest opens, but once brackets are closed, you'll hear all of my picks, believe me.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
---
I GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL

Okay, newbie with crazy theory time:

At first I thought Sega characters overperform against Nintendo characters. Note that the only three matches that were Sega/Nintendo were Sonic/Samus and both of Shadow's matches.

With Sonic/Samus, Sonic was the second biggest loser in expected percentages against Link. Although he was in the West, which suffered significant drops throughout, the only one to suffer a bigger drop was the only problem with the theory: Ken, who was doubled by Samus in '02 and was given a worse beating by Sonic the next year. I'm tempted to write it off as lightweight/heavyweight discrepencies and possibly bracket voting, but it still seems too big to do so. Without Ken (or the other anomaly, Tidus, who I suspect merely aged well), it's very easy to say Sonic's drop well below the others' drops was because he, too, overperformed.

Shadow is rationalized by saying, in a fancy way, "He can't possibly be almost exactly as popular as Sonic." It simply does not compute that someone only recently introduced to the series could possibly be equal to its core. Since I've not played a Sonic game since the awful awful 3D Blast, I don't know what would make Shadow better than Sonic in the eyes of those who know who he is.

Well, there's another problem with the theory, namely the Spring Contest, but I'm still in denial over that one.

Then there's another theory: Shadow really and truly is, for all intents and purposes, Sonic. Perhaps anyone not familiar with Shadow (read: anyone who hasn't played SA2) would vote as if he was Sonic, because he is a Sonic recolor, after all. I'm not quite sure how likely this is.

And then there's a theory that Mario underperforms against midcarders, the so-called anti-Mario votes. This would be a voting block that don't think very highly of Mario, and tends to vote against him when he's up against anyone remotely decent, and it seems Shadow qualifies. It seems the only other midcarder that Mario's faced was DK, who suffered from a severe case of SFF. And the only midcarder that Mario's likely to face this year is Bowser, who will likely also suffer from a severe case of SFF.

And one last thought for 4 AM: Tidus, I think, ages well. More and more FFX fans successfully block the laughing scene from their minds when they think of Tidus.
---
"We seek as much data - raw facts, direct experience - as we can, and then we make up our own minds." - J. Moore

*scratches head* Laughing scene? Eh?? What is this laughing scene? I seriously don't remember it...
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Joe is a cool character but the game he is in is fun for a few minutes then gets stale. His performance in this contest will show if people are voting for the character or the game behind the character.

---
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

I already signed up in the last topic but got ignored, I'll try again :P


1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18

----
Nel mezzo del cammin di nostra vita - mi ritrovai per una selva oscura - che la diritta via era smarrita

While filling out my bracket, I got stumped on a couple matches that I haven't heard a lot of discussion on.

Kirby vs. Kain: from 2K3 numbers you'd expect Raziel to get about 34% against Kirby. But from 2K2 numbers you'd expect him to get 45%. You would expect the more recent numbers to be more accurate, but I would expect Kain to be greater than Raziel, since he is the title character for one of the games after all. Though, I don't know much about the Soul Reaver series, so I'm not certain about that. While I'm gonna put him winning in my bracket, I don't think Kirby is a shoe-in against Kain.

Viewtiful Joe vs. Dante: I could see Viewtiful Joe winning this match. You don't hear much about Dante anymore; maybe he'll drop off in popularity? Viewtiful Joe might be tough for Dante to beat. I'll probably have Dante in my bracket, but this isn't clear cut either IMO.


cyko mentioned Jak being on the level of Ratchet. I don't think that's true. The thing about Jak is, his games were very highly marketed. I saw loads of commercials for them on TV. I had no interest in them at all, but the point is, I think a lot of people know Jak; much more than Ratchet. Since Ness isn't *that* much stronger than Ratchet (Bowser SFF excluded), I say Jak does deserve to be the favorite against Ness.


As for my bracket, I'm really torn on Mega Man vs. Frog...I will definitely have Frog beating Snake, because while it's very unlikely, I can see it happening. I just cannot picture Frog taking down Mega Man though.


Slowflake:
Now, that's why picking Crono to beat Mario isn't exactly the brightest choice: should Magus upset Crono with SFF, Mario gets a free pass to the Elite 8.

Huh? I don't think that makes sense. We have never, EVER seen SFF work that way (in favor of the weaker character), nor ever been given even the slightest hint that it's possible. If Magus beats Crono, he should be favored against Mario or considered 50/50, depending on how much he beats Crono by. If Magus wins it won't be because of opposite-SFF, but because he was stronger than Crono this year.

Haste2:
So, that means Auron should be closer to Tidus than Vivi is to Zidane

I am almost positive that Vivi > Zidane for contest terms. You never hear people talking about Zidane. Black Mage from Final Fantasy I would PWN Zidane.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

Count me in again. Won't be able to look at the bracket AT ALL until the 21st, but will then have a day or two to ponder. This is going to be VERY rushed this time!

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82

---
I would like to take this moment to politely orgasm over Ulti's pwning us all in the Guru challenge. Congratulations!

Lol. But seriously, what do you think about your chances of winning the contest or the Guru list again, Ulti?

I like them. I have picked two key upsets late in the contest that could really own the hell out of the leaderboard if they come through.

Me too...brother Ulti!
---
Top 10 Dream Noms: Fulgore...Mr. Grimm...

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

Can someone explain to me what the list of users is about?

---
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

The list of users are signing up for the "Guru Challenge", it is where we all submit our brackets to someone at the end of the deadline and basically see who can get the highest score at the end of the contest. Whoever has that score has to change their sig praising the winner in some way.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Who do you submit your bracket to?

---
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend

---
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

We don't know yet, in the spring it was to Ngamer but we haven't seen him around recently.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Ok, Thanks!

---
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

I decided to create a topic devoted solely to the Guru Challenge...

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14923076
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

We have never, EVER seen SFF work that way (in favor of the weaker character), nor ever been given even the slightest hint that it's possible.

Of course. However, it's a possibility I wouldn't rule out. Out of all the fan-favorites ever in a contest, Magus is the closest to the hero. Maybe, just maybe, those usual Crono voters who just vote Crono for the hell of it but who think Magus is the ****ing man (and Magus IS the ****ing man) are numerous enough to do the upset. Unfortunately, it's only speculation.

If Magus beats Crono, he should be favored against Mario or considered 50/50, depending on how much he beats Crono by.

Depends on if it's legit or not.

If Magus wins it won't be because of opposite-SFF, but because he was stronger than Crono this year.

I wouldn't rule out reverse SFF too quickly... though Crono DID drain Kefka dry. That's frightening. But Magus is much closer... we don't know. And I don't see why Magus would overtake half to two thirds of the Noble Nine in a year where nothing happened to him (except Chrono Break getting canned).

I am almost positive that Vivi > Zidane for contest terms. You never hear people talking about Zidane. Black Mage from Final Fantasy I would PWN Zidane.

I ranked Auron above Tidus, Magus above Crono and Yoshi + Luigi above Bowser and quite close to Mario before last year's contest, costing me four points total. I'm not falling for the evil fan-favorite trap ever again. I've got DK winning it, and I'm sticking with it. And keep in mind that even on this site, FF9 is nowhere near FF8 or FF10. Now, Squall would beat DK 60-40, and Tidus like 63-37... then take a less liked game, fan-favorite syndrome (and even if he IS above Zidane, he's only going as far as his fan-favorite status can allow him), and I see DK snagging it.

I also think we're underrating Aya in this whole mess. To make this clearer, Aya is almost as strong as Tommy Vercetti, or Dante. Dante vs. Aya... hehehehe.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Anti-Mario? Nah, as I mentioned earlier, I really don't think there is such thing as anti-repeat votes. Revenge votes happens only with people who are up to date with this contest, sincerely care about it, and extremely pissed at Mario. That is NOT a big percentage of people.

For the last time, anti-Mario =/= anti-repeat. Anti-Mario is the aberration caused by Mario getting abnormally low scores against non-Nintendo, non-elite characters, such as Servbot, Morrigan, or Shadow. Yes, Shadow.

And I'm not expecting anything out of Sonic Battle. Hell, even SSBM is as close to a non-factor as it gets. And we can safely say SSBM is the most successful spin-off ever. Spin-offs aren't meant to make the fanbase larger, that's the main games' job. They are just made to cater to the current fanbase. KH on the other hand, is NOT a spin-off. It's another entity entirely, which happens to contain FF characters to cater to TWO fanbases, and make FF awareness more widespread. That's how I see it, anyway. And I'm not expecting KHF to die out much, since it was a while since it was released when SC2K3 rolled around anyway.

Question: Will Auron being in KH2 provide him a boost next year as well? I say yes, as long as his character isn't mercilessly slaughtered by a second game like a certain Yuna.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I can also see Yoshi vs. Luigi having reverse SFF because as of now it's Yoshi > Luigi, but that can change too
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Yoshi is much more of a fan favorite (like Magus) than Luigi.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

In the infamous favorite Mario character poll, Luigi was barely ahead of Mario, while Yoshi almost doubled both.

I second HM, I think that poll is at least accurate in that aspect: Yoshi is just the bigger fan favorite.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

I just thought of something, we all pretty much agree (or think) that Zero should win his first round match without much trouble. However, I was thinking that if MMAC does happen to do something could Proto Man actually win that match? I mean he is untested, and while Zero ranked like a beast last year, Proto Man could maybe do the same? I've never really thought about it but I mean it doesn't seem to out there does it?
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Protoman coming within 5000 votes of Sonic - and beating Aeris - just sounds so horribly wrong.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Of course, Protoman is untested. I don't think he can beat Zero, but I think he'll surprise a few people and keep it decently close. If I had it my way, Blues would win this one and beat Mega Man.

*whistles*
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Proto Man wont get 20000 votes...mark my words...

Sorry Heroic M :)
---
Elite 8: Link, Mario, Mega Man, Frog, Cloud, Sephy, Sonic, Samus

Huh? I don't think that makes sense. We have never, EVER seen SFF work that way (in favor of the weaker character), nor ever been given even the slightest hint that it's possible.

Actually, I think that Cloud/Sephiroth suggests that it's possible. It's reasonable to believe that Sephiroth is more popular overall, but lost against Cloud due to a hero/villain effect. Sephiroth was definitely stronger in 2k2, and I don't know of any reason the KH effect would have helped Cloud more than Seph. (Sephiroth's massive gain on Mega Man was nearly as big as Cloud's gain on Link. We know Link was the same strength each year, and I would guess that Mega Man was as well.)

Magus may not suffer the hero/villain effect because he's not the main bad guy and he joins your team for the end of the game. So I think there's a chance he could beat Crono without actually being stronger than Crono.

---
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers

I'll join the list.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
---
Vote whoever in the Summer Contest my bracket is screwed either way
Gordon Freeman...the sleeper contestant

I think Protoman will do decently, but he'll still get killed. Something around the range of 65-35.
---
Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

It's reasonable to believe that Sephiroth is more popular overall, but lost against Cloud due to a hero/villain effect.

Um, no. Sephiroth's major opponents before Cloud, Megaman and Mario, stayed the same.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Well, from reading all that i have missed lately, and so I wanted to point out somehting highly humorous...

"Aeris wasn't expected to be as strong as she turned out to be"

Thank you, stoppokingme, for making me laugh so hard. The fact of the matter is, she ranked 5 spots lower in 2k3 than 2k2... if you didn't expect her to be that strong you didn't have any clue what you were looking for.

Anyway, I'm really friggin torn on my bracket... I wanna win, obviously, but I'm not sure if that will happen by picking the obvious and hoping I get the most early matches correct or picking the not so obvious and hoping they pull a suprise upset. It's possible...

"It`s a sig challenge, Tarrot =(


yeah, but it didn't even start out that way, right?"

Actually, FF05 it seems to have originated in part from a bet between Shake and myself. Funny then, that he and I should each take 3rd and 2nd respectively.
---
I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

Tag.
---
\¯¯) ê놣èJûï¢è~
/__) Steve walks warily down the street with his brim pulled way down low.

Oh, and may I point out... to those who disagreed with me when I said that MC was the only character that could be the 1 seed in a "misc" division (from back when we were talking about divisions by company) allow me to point out MC's possition and Vercetti's possition. Again, seeding and actual performance strength mean little.
---
I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

Sephiroth was definitely stronger in 2k2, and I don't know of any reason the KH effect would have helped Cloud more than Seph.

Oh it did, Cloud gained 14% from 2002 to 2003 on Link while Sephiroth only gained 6%. Cloud skyrocketed up from 2002 to 2003.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

true Jill is ranked 28th yet she got a 14 seed
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

West 2002 factor, bro. Sephy's second and Mega's third might be legit, but at 39% instead of 43%, who knows.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Cloud's ranking from 2002 is corrupted thanks to a corrupted match between Mario that mysteriously had 25% more vote total than the other matches at the time.

Not to mention that it's common sense that Cloud isn't equal to Crono.

So basically, you have to throw out Cloud Vs. Mario from 2002.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

"Not to mention that it's common sense that Cloud isn't equal to Crono."

Things do change over time.
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I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

Whoa.... just looked ay my bracket... had gordon winning... *shudders*
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I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

Yeah, but if you go with that theory, it just creates more problems than it solves. Definitely not worth it.

---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

...there's also the obvious explanation that sff lowered mario's score against link.

i know it supposedly isn't as much of a factor with characters, but...why wouldn't it be there?
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

There's only one good explanation for Mario overperforming against Cloud, and it seems far too unlikley even for me to believe it. It's possible, but not in any way likely.
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I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

I can't see Cloud and Sephiroth equally gaining from Kingdom Hearts. They may have been closer but even just doesn't sound right.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Oh it did, Cloud gained 14% from 2002 to 2003 on Link while Sephiroth only gained 6%. Cloud skyrocketed up from 2002 to 2003.

Actually the both should have gain 10% Sephiroth lost 4% from "The West Division Factor" and Cloud gain 4% from his match with Mario. So in 2002 Cloud would've gotten 41% against Link while Sephiroth should've only got 39% so that would explain alot
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Sephiroth should have only gotten 39% against Link? I'm not sure how that makes sense when he had a direct match with him.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Plus, Mario got a value of a bit over 38% against Link this year, and I would think that that value would be more accurate than the 37.5%, as at least people cared about Mario vs. Sephiroth. Without Mario's comeback Cloud would have beaten Mario with about 51%. That puts Cloud and Sephiroth roughly equal to each other in 2002. I would give Sephiroth the edge still, but just barely, (for whatever rearson) and that would put Cloud just ahead of Mega Man that year, as well.

I would rank the 2002 Elite 9 like this:

Link
Sephiroth
Cloud
Mega Man
Mario
Crono
Samus = Sonic
Solid Snake

I'm tempted to put Sonic ahead of Samus, though, as Sonic did lead for most of the poll, and Samus just *might* have pulled a clutch move like Mario...

When I look at things, if Link stayed the same:

Sephiroth increased by roughly 10%
Cloud increased by 13-14%
Mega Man stayed the same
Mario stayed the same
Crono slightly increased (by about 1%), yet Mario still won due to his insane comeback
Samus increased (by 1-2%)
Sonic deceased (by 1-2%)
Solid Snake stayed the same

2003 rankings for Elite 9:
Cloud
Link
Sephiroth
Crono = Mega Man
Mario
Samus Aran
Solid Snake
Sonic the Hedgehog

At the rate things are going with Mega Man and Solid Snake not budging from year to year, things look grim for Snake yet again if he wants to make it out of a division. In fact, it looks like Sonic and Snake will be the only members of the Elite 9 left that won't win their divisions, probably...

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

I don't know why I keep going in-depth in my reasoning for toss-up matches, but now I'll elaborate on why Ness will probably beat Jak:

First of all, Earthbound did fairly well in the game contest. That could be indication that Ness might not be as weak as we think. That and the layout change supposedly drowned out more casual visitors than the regular ones, so that COULD help Ness a little. Those are two very small things that could make a difference.

Next, if you compare Ness to Crash Bandicoot, Crash would beat Ness with only 56%...Ness would beat Ratchet with 58%. However, that's not the only way you can look at it. Look at Crash's 2002 value in the extrapolated rankings. It's even lower than in 2003, down to just above 16%, as opposed to Ness' 15.44%. Add on top of the fact Slowflake's 2002 West Division theory and that puts the 2002 Crash even LOWER, even below Ness. Plus, Ness may have suffered from a bit of SFF against Bowser...maybe. Oh, and don't forget our high expectations of him last year...that COULD still mean something.

That's quite a lot of stuff in Ness' favor, eh? What statistical thing does Jak have to counter with? The difference of Crash Bandicoot's value from 2002 to 2003 may be the one of the bigger flaws of that "West Division" theory, though. If Crash simply underperformed greatly in 2002, this could put Jak back in the running. I would trust the above paragraph more, though. The other possibility is that Jak may be more popular than Crash Bandicoot, being newer and all, and end up owning Ness without question. It could happen...

Well, at this point, the only toss-up match I'm struggling with is Viewtiful Joe vs. Tails. Argh. I'm tempted to pick Tails because the biggest upset I have seed-wise, is 10 over 7 (two of them). Maybe I could still pick Jill over Ryu Hayabusa, but I kinda made up my mind on that one...

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Sephiroth was definitely stronger in 2k2, and I don't know of any reason the KH effect would have helped Cloud more than Seph.

I haven't played Kingdom Hearts, but I was under the impression that Cloud was a playable character, while Sephiroth was a hidden boss? That would certainly give Cloud more exposure.

First of all, Earthbound did fairly well in the game contest. That could be indication that Ness might not be as weak as we think. That and the layout change supposedly drowned out more casual visitors than the regular ones, so that COULD help Ness a little. Those are two very small things that could make a difference.

Earthbound was a great game! But if that game was effective, it should be able to help Ness in previous contests as well. Since SSBM, Ness has had no new games or action, yet Jak even featured on the PS2. And what is the layout change? Is that the way the bracket is arranged? Well, even if that match took place during the school year on a Monday, visitors still come in big numbers at around 4PM-12AM Eastern.

Well, at this point, the only toss-up match I'm struggling with is Viewtiful Joe vs. Tails. Argh. I'm tempted to pick Tails because the biggest upset I have seed-wise, is 10 over 7 (two of them). Maybe I could still pick Jill over Ryu Hayabusa, but I kinda made up my mind on that one...

If you were curious about my bracket, it's Ryu over Jill, and Joe over Tails. Viewtiful Joe was a unique, great game. On the other hand, Tails didn't do too bad against Sonic last year....I wouldn't trust my opinion on this, because whoever wins this match will definably beat Dante, meaning that 3 points go into the trash with the wrong pick.
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

Here's a little theory that I've been thinking about. I don't really put much faith in it, and I really don't think it's true. But it's an interesting possibility.

What if Crono is really only as popular as Magus and most of his votes against Mario come from Mario anti-votes? The fact that the only opponent he's lost to is Mario doesn't really help matters much.

One of the big problems in this theory is that Crono still did beat Snake in 2002. However, I recall seeing somewhere that Magus '03 could beat Snake '02. And if you assume like I do that Magus '02 would be even more popular than Magus '03, that is one way out of the quandary.

This would also interfere with with the Improvement scores of everyone in the East Division, but I can't think of anomalies, except for maybe Lara, but does anyone know if statistics say she increased or decreased in popularity?
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Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

Oh, and a quick note on The Kingdom Hearts Factor.

If I recall correctly, the main theory of the factor was that Cloud and Sephiroth's appearances in Kingdom Hearts made people interested in them enough to play Final Fantasy VII for the first time.

Henceforth, Cloud and Sephiroth's increases are really due to more people playing FF7 instead of Kingdom Hearts itself. If that's the case, then the role the characters play in Kingdom Hearts really shouldn't play much of a factor, since the main factor in play here is the increased amount of people playing FF7 in which the two characters play a roughly equal role in the storyline, which means that their improvement scores, should be roughly the same.

Whew. I hope everyone understood what I meant by this.
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Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

First of all, Earthbound did fairly well in the game contest.

Yeah. I'd have expected it to lose to Doom much more heavily.

Sorry, there's a game called Earthbound now?
---
Jon Thomson - final score : 138/192
Nominate Ridley for Summer Contest 2005

One of the big problems in this theory is that Crono still did beat Snake in 2002. However, I recall seeing somewhere that Magus '03 could beat Snake '02. And if you assume like I do that Magus '02 would be even more popular than Magus '03, that is one way out of the quandary.

If Magus 2003 could beat Snake 2002, he couldn't beat him with 53% of the vote. I don't see Magus decreasing in strength between the two contests, as Crono did not.

---
1903, 1912, 1915, 1916, 1918, 2004!
Remember the 3rd GameFAQs Poll of the Day.

If Magus 2003 could beat Snake 2002, he couldn't beat him with 53% of the vote. I don't see Magus decreasing in strength between the two contests, as Crono did not.

Unless of course, Mario was still getting extra Super Mario Sunshine votes during his match with Crono in 2002. But I guess that's just another presumption. Still quite possible, though.
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Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

So much talk is about how Ness will beat Jak, but I can't see how that can be. Ness couldn't touch Bowser, and EB lost to Doom, a PC game not named Starcraft. This was all with his biggest fansite helping him as well.
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"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

Know how the rankings get more and more screwy among jobbers (just compare Gordon's performances)? There's one explanation for what happened to Gordon... people care so little about him, TJF probably materialized just for one day. Likewise, there's a factor that could ultimately affect this match, since compared to Bowser and Doom, Jak is a no-namer.

Super Smash Bros. Melee.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Ness is God awful in SSBM too.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

But swirldude... Who cares about Jak either?

Honestly, both Ness and Jak are probably 12-13 seeds. That's an awful match to pick, cause the general public's reaction to both sides would be either "Who?" or "Who cares?".

I've been thinkin... Which of these four-packs do you think is weaker?

V. Joe-Tails-Dante-Ratchet

or

Hayabusa-Jill-Sora-HK-47

Honestly... Those are both really pathetic. The bracket's pretty easy to pick aside from those two groups.

Good thing is... Ya know Sonic and Samus will crush the two winners out of that group. It's weird, cause I think that out of the Chaos division, none of the top four are in those four packs.

Seeding IS a bit messed up... But I gotta admit, it's all pretty good for fanfic purposes. I like the whole "Samus is in prime position to make it to the second-to-last day of the contest" thing.
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I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Who cares about Jak either?

Jak is not only cool but has two popular PS2 titles and a third one on the way.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

*ahem*

I'm signing up with THIS account.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
---
Metroid Prime > Wind Waker

Ness is god-awful in SSBM, yes.

But at least they KNOW who he is, even if they don't give a crap about him. Who would your average Joe vote for, the guy they know and don't care for, or the guy they don't know and don't care for?

On the other hand, everyone and their parrot knows Bowser and Doom.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

So much talk is about how Ness will beat Jak, but I can't see how that can be. Ness couldn't touch Bowser, and EB lost to Doom, a PC game not named Starcraft. This was all with his biggest fansite helping him as well.

*AHEM* Games =/= Characters. Please remember that. -___-' Otherwise, your demise in this contest inevitable. Even though I agree that Jak should beat Ness, tje only factor is bowser pwning ness, while Jak is a newbie. And speaking of EB losing to Doom, Doom is one of the most popular PC games evar. It started FPS and LAN Parties..and Clans.

It's up in the air in my opinion..but I do think Jak will be in my bracket..and if he loses..>_<'
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"Haha SMRPG wins because this is RPGFAQs." "If SMRPG wins then GameFAQs has no credibility." - Fanboys.

Awwwww me wants to sign up toooooo :(
Me is UBAH friends with Ulti and Shadow and all teh bunnies from the former boards before CJayC got given this yummy new site with bad forums LOL
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Character Battle III-Sonic Vs Cloud? (0-0)
Sonic Vs Samus Rematch-Believe The Hype!!!

Whoever said Jak was a complete unknown? He hasn't had two popular PS2 titles for no apparent reason, with a third to be released later. I'm not factoring in that third one, but really Jak and Daxter is a game that many people have played on the PS2 and many of them like. Odds are the average Joe has heard of and or played a Jak and Daxter game. Ness isn't exactly a character that benefits from looking cool, being from a big game, and being just downright terrible in his appearance for SSBM doesn't help.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Generally, a FAQ list as tiny as Sephiroth's wang doesn't tell good things about a recent game's popularity.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

And just to bring up sales in the US Jak and Daxter II: Precursor of Legacy sold 1.2 million.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Popularity on this site, that is.

Remember a certain Vice City, selling 8-9 millions but losing to a game that sold four time less?
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

The only reason I brought it up is because you seem to think Jak is an extremely unknown character and Ness is far from being hard to overcome.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Looking cool never matters in these contests. Consider Raziel, Dante, and all the other guys with ninja outfits, giant guns, or some other "cool" look. They went out early.

Ness, because of SSBM, has more mainstream appeal... Especially in a site that caters to Nintendo and Square.

Also... Jak's fairly new on the big stage of video games. Unless you're Square, Nintendo, or perhaps Sonic, it'll take a while for you to get into any position other than "fodder" in these contests.
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I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

And anyone who likes Vercetti should be downed. >>
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Hey! Vercetti is my favorite character! Mmm Ray Liotta... and what good is having people know Ness from SSB:M, when he is terrible in the game? I am going to anti-vote him for being useless in that game...
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7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Jak is not extremely unknown, but Bowser and Doom DO make him look pitiful to the point where SSBM's exposure might give him a chance.

And for reference, Ratchet's games have comparable FAQ lists, review lists and board traffic as Jak's. Ness > Ratchet by the same amount Bowser > Luigi, so if Ratchet = Jak, Ness wins.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Looking cool does help when you're going up against a kid that looks like a complete idiot. Remember that all the "cool" guys you mentioned (Raziel, Dante) lost to even cooler, more well known characters (Strider and Ryu). They didn't lose to Ness. ;)
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My name is Reggie. I'm about kicking ass. I'm about taking names, and we're about making games.

Looking cool never matters in these contests. Consider Raziel, Dante, and all the other guys with ninja outfits, giant guns, or some other "cool" look. They went out early.

That's why I said, "if you fancy the 'picture' deal."

Ness, because of SSBM, has more mainstream appeal... Especially in a site that caters to Nintendo and Square.

Ness is not mainstream by any stretch of that word. He appeals to fans of EB and that is about it. I honestly can't imagine someone like Ness being able to beat Jak, whether or not he's from Nintendo. Him being in SSBM lets people know him and his name, liking him is a different story.

Also... Jak's fairly new on the big stage of video games. Unless you're Square, Nintendo, or perhaps Sonic, it'll take a while for you to get into any position other than "fodder" in these contests.

Neither of these two rank above anything but fodder, but that is beside the point.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

And while sales don't mean much in these contests, Ratchet and Clank sold a whomping 433,000 copies.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Ness was good in the first super smash. And Jak probably is comparable to Ratchet so Ness oughta win.
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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

I wouldn't hesitate to put Jak above Ratchet.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

To take a post by creativename earlier in this topic:

cyko mentioned Jak being on the level of Ratchet. I don't think that's true. The thing about Jak is, his games were very highly marketed. I saw loads of commercials for them on TV. I had no interest in them at all, but the point is, I think a lot of people know Jak; much more than Ratchet. Since Ness isn't *that* much stronger than Ratchet (Bowser SFF excluded), I say Jak does deserve to be the favorite against Ness.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Forget Earthbound and Doom. >_<' It makes no difference. Games =/= characters, and Doom was one of the biggest games ever at it's time..and what happens when Doom faces an FF game? It gets crushed..enough.

Bowser is Nintendo and he's Mario arch-rival, making him a major Nintendo character. Of course he beat Ness.

Ness still has a chance.
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"Haha SMRPG wins because this is RPGFAQs." "If SMRPG wins then GameFAQs has no credibility." - Fanboys.

i told u i was hardcore

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
---
Remember Dr T? Now he's back, in POG FORM!
Proud supporter of Viewtiful Joe!

Ness is God awful in SSBM too.

hmm, whille I don't use Ness in ssbm, I'm sure there's people who could defend ness, I still belive that there is no character in that game who can't be fought with formidably, but, that asides, even if ness just introduced himself to gamers, that's a plus. I mean, you really can't garner much hatred for him from ssb or melee. I'm hoping Ness wins, and I don't think thats farfetched either.

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If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Ness was great in SSB, in fact, it isn't like SSBM is really introducing him to a new crowd because the same N64 era people got to see him.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

hmm that's true...I guess that it only really helps the small crowd that bough melee but not ssb, although that's not too unlikely, ssb did come out pretty late, and ssbm is the title for gamecube, but still, it probably is a small group.
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If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Um, no. Sephiroth's major opponents before Cloud, Megaman and Mario, stayed the same.

Slow, can you explain what you mean here? I don't understand what you're saying.

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"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Megaman and Mario maintained the same level of performance in 2003 as in 2002, essentially.

For Megaman, instead of comparing with Link, because of the Link/Seph match, or Sephiroth himself or Tidus, because of KH, or even Samus because of Prime, we can just compare with Sonic or Ryu, which are more reliable standards. (Ken's drop in performance is puzzling, but it probably has nothing to do with Mega.)
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Isn't anybody else gonna comment on my theory?
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Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

Yesmar if your theroy is true then we would know on the Tidus vs. Shadow poll because Shadow had a match with Mario
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LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Megaman and Mario maintained the same level of performance in 2003 as in 2002, essentially.

For Megaman, instead of comparing with Link, because of the Link/Seph match, or Sephiroth himself or Tidus, because of KH, or even Samus because of Prime, we can just compare with Sonic or Ryu, which are more reliable standards. (Ken's drop in performance is puzzling, but it probably has nothing to do with Mega.)

Well, my basic point was that Mega Man was pretty stable, so we can use him to measure Sephiroth's increase. Although Sephiroth only gained 6% in the extrapolated standings, he gained 11% vs. Mega Man, which is a much more direct comparison. This leads me to believe that Sephiroth may have underperformed against Cloud in the finals (which explains why he only gained 6% in the extrapolated standings, instead of 11%).

---
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers

Ness is god-awful in SSBM, yes.

Sorry Slow, but you just don't know how to use him effectively. In the first SSB, I could beat 3 level 9 computers with Ness in a 3v1 team battle (and yes, I was the 1, I'm not trying to be truthful but deceitful). In SSBM, the AI got notched up a few levels, but I can still whoop my friends with him. I used to know a guy who was totally untouchable with Ness on SSB.

Anyways, I don't quite see how people seem to think that this is going to be a one-sided easy win for either Ness or Jak. Frankly, I think it'll be quite close, with the winner having no more than 53-54%. I'm leaning towards Jak because EB doesn't have a gigantic fanbse (though its fans are often big fanboys), not to mention that EB got beaten by Doom in Spc2k4, a PC game not called Starcraft, which in turn got predictably whooped by Final Fantasy III/VI. Ness does have the SSB/SSBM appeal, but as a few of you have mentioned, he's not one of the most popular characters in it because he's one of the hardest to master (especially his triple jump). Jak, on the other hand, is a first-time entrant, so it's hard to properly judge his popularity here. His games may not have a huge number of FAQs, but as past contests have shown, the number of FAQs means very little about game popularity, let alone character popularity. In addition, both of Jak's games are pretty straightforward (though extremely difficult at times) in terms of figuring out where to go and what to do. Most of what you need in the FAQs is things such as precursor orb locations, power cell locations (Jak 1 only), and boss strategies. Most importantly, his games are just downright fun, except during certain challenges which can be very frustrating, especially the hover races in Jak II. The dialog is also very humerous (well, Daxter does all the talking in the first game, but Jak learns to talk in the second), which certainly adds to Jak's status. The only question is how large Jak's fanbase is. Actually, the only question is how large Jak's fanbse is on GameFAQs. I'm guessing it's a teeny bit smaller here than overall, but I think it'll still be larger than EB's. After all, Jak did get nominated by a large number of people. Anyways, I'm giving Jak a slight edge, but like I said, expect this one to be close.

Sorry Slow, but you just don't know how to use him effectively. In the first SSB, I could beat 3 level 9 computers with Ness in a 3v1 team battle (and yes, I was the 1, I'm not trying to be truthful but deceitful). In SSBM, the AI got notched up a few levels, but I can still whoop my friends with him. I used to know a guy who was totally untouchable with Ness on SSB.

I said that, and no he is not anywhere near top notch material in SSBM. He is average at best in SSBM, now SSB is a different story.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

The SSB AI was horrible - beating 3 lvl 9 computers wasnt a huge accomplishment. And Ness was weakened drastically in SSBM - he's not horrible, but the stronger characters (read: Sheik, Fox, Marth, etc.) tear him to pieces unless there's a fairly large player skill difference.

So, Ness is cool, but was drastically weakened. He can't stand up well against the faster characters unless you put tons of time into learning him, due to the fairly large learning curve on using him correctly. Even then, a player on the same skill level as you will tear you apart if they use any of the aforementioned characters - getting chain juggled is never fun. Beyond that, Ness is annoying as hell - I've had games where my friends have tried to gang up on me (as Ness) simply to eliminate his high, squeaky voice whenever he uses a PK attack.

So, he's difficult to use, fairly effective against the better characters altogether, and he is obnoxious.

Oh, and his actual game he starred in is a cult classic.

I don't think SSBM will help Ness much, if at all. The bowser match last year was not SSBM SFF - ness is just that weak.

Will SSBM have given him exposure? Yes. But exposure is not nessecarily equal to votes, as Pac-Man, Pikachu, and Bomberman can tell you. Ness simply is not overly likeable for any reason other than Earthbound, which not enough people have played for him to have a chance against Jak. Jak won't massacre him, but this match likely won't even be close.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

And Ness, almighty god of SSB, please forgive me. You kicked ass in SSB, but no matter how hard as i try in SSBM i can't justify using you in serious matches.

Ah well....there's always SSB3. I hope.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Anyone who believes in the SSBM tiers are worse than those SF2 whiners.
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"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

The bowser match last year was not SSBM SFF

No, it was Nintendo SFF -______-.
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"Haha SMRPG wins because this is RPGFAQs." "If SMRPG wins then GameFAQs has no credibility." - Fanboys.

Anyone who believes in the SSBM tiers are worse than those SF2 whiners.

That's the other way around buddy. Then again you don't need them if you just play with friends, tournaments are different.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

No, it was Nintendo SFF -______-.

I don't really buy that either. Ness is not associated well enough with Nintendo in terms of being a fixture to suffer major SFF. Both are nintendo characters, but one is a mario character and one is from a cult RPG. Whatever SFF factor there was against Bowser was small, if anything.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Both are nintendo characters, but one is a mario character and one is from a cult RPG

Exactly.
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"Haha SMRPG wins because this is RPGFAQs." "If SMRPG wins then GameFAQs has no credibility." - Fanboys.

Anyone who believes in the SSBM tiers are worse than those SF2 whiners.

HM is right on this. Anyone really claiming that the characters are equal is deluding themselves - to believe that you can evenly balance 20+ characters is just silly. While this generally won't kick into play as much in casual play, with enough time put into the game it becomes obvious. When two good players are both roughly evenly skilled at the game, a Sheik will beat a Ness the vast majority of the time.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

I don't really buy that either. Ness is not associated well enough with Nintendo in terms of being a fixture to suffer major SFF. Both are nintendo characters, but one is a mario character and one is from a cult RPG. Whatever SFF factor there was against Bowser was small, if anything.

If you know enough about Ness to support Ness, you will know about his association with Nintendo. I'd say almost all of Ness' support will be from Nintendo fans, so Bowser can suck tons of votes away with SFF.

Ness' position in the tier listing for SSBM really mean very much. Very few of the voters are hardcore SSBM players who frequent tournement. Also Ness isn't that bad in SSBM. His biggest problem is that the characters that are best against him are the top tier characters, the ones used most often in tournements.

A friend of mine is one of the best SSBM players in the province and an outstanding Ness player. So I guess it's kinda difficult for me to see Ness as a weak character after getting totally decimated by him so many times.
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

ya know, i still haven't seen any arguments here that show Jak to be any different than Ratchet. i guess his game did sell a little better than Ratchet's, but i haven't seen either get more exposure than the other. and as for the pics, Ness might be goofy-looking, but Jak isn't any prettier. neither of them has a good pic.

like i said before, Ness will have Super Smash Bros. and Nintendo and RPG fans on his side. he didn't have those advantages over Bowser, because Bowser shared all of the same factors. what does Jak have? huge, pointy ears - that's what.

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you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

The tiers are completely wrong. I've seen and participated in tournaments, Marth and Sheik have never won, and Fox has won once. It depends on the skills, not the tiers. But GameFAQers need tiers to live, and they have mande it the norm, and since my opinion doesn't matter here, the stupidity will continue.
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"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

I'd say almost all of Ness' support will be from Nintendo fans, so Bowser can suck tons of votes away with SFF.

Some votes? Yes. More than two or three percent? Unlikely.

They are both nintendo, true. However, ness comes from a cult game. That disenfranchises him from receiving the bulk of the pure nintendo votes - few, if any casual gamers will have heard of him at all. Ness would not be pulling in a large percentage of the nintendo base, almost regardless of who you put him up against. The nintendo fanbase simply doesnt care about ness, and would no more vote in droves for ness than the square fanbase would go crazy saving the dog from secret of evermore.

True, many Ness fans will be nintendo fans as well. But hell - if you are already a ness fan, then whatever god forsaken reason made you a ness fan in the first place is likely to make you place him over bowser anyway. Again, one is an cult RPG character, one is freaking BOWSER. The fanbases, even though they belong to the same company, are already different enough that SFF won't really come heavily into effect. Ness just doesnt have enough support on this site, and honestly probably only made it into this contest because of die-hard Earthbound fans.

Cult characters suck in this contest - plain and simple.

Ness' position in the tier listing for SSBM really mean very much. Very few of the voters are hardcore SSBM players who frequent tournement. Also Ness isn't that bad in SSBM. His biggest problem is that the characters that are best against him are the top tier characters, the ones used most often in tournements.

I agree with you. A good ness player can tear his opposition apart. But hell, forget tournament - even in casual play, ness will get absolutely destroyed by characters who are in the top two tiers. While i feel he is stronger in general than most of the other characters in the game, considering there are six or seven characters that eat ness alive he deserves his spot towards the bottom of the tiers.

I play SSBM, and while i don't claim to be a tournament quality player, I've gotten my Ness to a point where he is deadly. When I'm playing with any of my friends from around home, none of them can even touch him, and I'm as effective with him as with any other character. However, up at college, where a few of my friends spend a bit more time playing the game, i see a dramatic drop off in effectiveness. My ness can still beat most of the characters badly, but the top two tiers are nigh untouchable. Shiek, Marth, Fox, Falco .... Ness can't even touch my friends when i play against them.

Now, using my best characters (Sheik/Fox) I can still destroy them, so the problem likely isnt with me. From my experience, Ness is great against an average player using an average character....but a good player, using one of the better characters, makes ness all but unplayable.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

The tiers are completely wrong. I've seen and participated in tournaments, Marth and Sheik have never won, and Fox has won once. It depends on the skills, not the tiers. But GameFAQers need tiers to live, and they have mande it the norm, and since my opinion doesn't matter here, the stupidity will continue.

Er, of course it depends on skill. A good Bowser player will never lose a match to a guy who has never played a game of SSBM before, no matter what character the new guy uses. But with players of roughly equal skill, Bowser is going to get his ass chain juggled into oblivion by Sheik.

Tiers exist - even fighting game with characters who aren't carbon copies of one another have tiers. This isnt just gamefaqs that believes this, its general accepted in any community that plays fighting games.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Am I the only one that thinks the AI in SSB was MUCH harder than SSBM?
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Supporter of Sora for SC2K4!

Am I the only one that thinks the AI in SSB was MUCH harder than SSBM?

Probably.
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I GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL

Am I the only one that thinks the AI in SSB was MUCH harder than SSBM?

Yes.

In SSB, most average players could handle 3 lvl 9 computers with little difficulty. In SSBM, it is still possible to handle 3 lvl 9 computers but in general takes much more AI abuse - it is nigh impossible to take out 3 ganondorfs, foxes or falcons in a straight, fair fight. In SSB, you could handle the computers without resorting to as many tricks - they were good, but not great.
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2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

The tiers are completely wrong. I've seen and participated in tournaments, Marth and Sheik have never won, and Fox has won once.

How many and how big were they? Many tournements are won by Marth and Shiek players.

It depends on the skills, not the tiers.

Obviously. But when two players of near equal skill play several matches against each other, the person with the higher tier character will win more often.

But GameFAQers need tiers to live, and they have mande it the norm, and since my opinion doesn't matter here, the stupidity will continue.

It is pretty much impossible to create a game with 20+ characters that are all perfectly balanced. Some characters will be better than other, even if it's only a small amount.

I wonder if the tier wars is still going on...
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

While it would take a brave/stupid man to disagree with Ulti I must question some of his "tips". Personally I think Ryu H. is a mere trap in disguise. Cjay expects people to fall into the trap of predicting him to win due to his high seed rather then examining both characters on offer. I think it is fair to say that the winnner of Jill v Ryu H. will go into the sweet 16 but really with some people saying that he will get 60% is crazy! Ryu H. would have to have the power of someone like Squall which is something he just fails to possess. We all know that Xbox games just are not popular here and the fact that he is making his first appearance now suggests that nobody cares greatly about his Nes appearances. The obvious winner getting out of the four for me would be Jill.

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www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

Oh it did, Cloud gained 14% from 2002 to 2003 on Link while Sephiroth only gained 6%. Cloud skyrocketed up from 2002 to 2003.

Yeah but with FF7 dominating every area perhaps Cloud could fall back to his 2002 power? One can hope ~_~


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www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

It is humanly impossible to make a perfectly balanced fighter where the characters are not exact copies of each other. While it is the goal of developers to eliminate tiers as much as possible, they inevitably fail, because we are merely human. Let's say that Bowser is stronger than Marth, but slower. Does Bowser's strength make up for his lack of speed? In part, yes. Does it make up his lack of speed to the point where the two characters are exactly equal? No. If the developers had given Bowser more strength, we might have the situation where he's higher of the tier list than Marth, but as long as 1 point strength =/= 1 point speed, they can never be exactly equal.

As for the tier list itself, that can be reasonably doubted, for it is the work of voting at Smashboards. It has been changed before (I believe Fox was recently added to Top Tier ahead of Marth.). I believe that it is basically accurate, but there could be changes, especially as the Tier List is only a representation of the most likely outcome of battles undertaken between players of equal, extremely high skill, with strategies such as those we have seen used. Should someone find a strategy with Bowser than enables them to consistently defeat Marth and Sheik, his placement will have to be reconsidered.

The Tier List is not something that is set in stone in that if two players of equal skill play, the higher tier character will not always win. They merely have the higher probability of winning. Further, some characters regularly outperform characters higher on the tier list than they are. The reason they are not placed above them on the tier list is that they do not do as well against other characters. For example, let us suppose Roy beats Marth in direct combat. However, Marth beats 22 characters, while Roy only outperforms 13. Thus, Marth will get a higher ranking on the tier list inspite of losing to Roy in direct combat.

Finally, skill is a much more important factor than tiers. Since the tier list is meant for players with equal, extremely high skill anyway, and two human players can never have exactly the same skill, skill is a much more important factor, though tiers can influence matches between players of very close skill.
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1903, 1912, 1915, 1916, 1918, 2004!
Remember the 3rd GameFAQs Poll of the Day.

Am I the only one that thinks the AI in SSB was MUCH harder than SSBM?

Yes, yes you are.

So, seeing as how this is my first post in any of the discussion topics, except perhaps one in the very first one which was just a post to post in it, do we sort of just... discuss the contest... as the.. name.. implies.. or.. something?

I figure we do, so, forgive me if I start discussing something already discussed on one of the earlier pages..

How does everyone think Kain will do against Kirby?

Being a LoK fan, I am naturally inclined into thinking Kain can defeat Kirby. Which doesn't sound so far fetched, imo. Kirby has proven in the past to not be a very strong competitor, but do you think the puff ball (Who, admitedly, was my favorite SSB character) will lose to Kain, or beat him?

Well, even if he loses, I'm at least happy he got in. About time they put the title character of the Legacy of Kain series in, instead of Raziel. (Not that I don't like Raziel, I just prefer Kain.)
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Damnant quod non intellegunt

How does everyone think Kain will do against Kirby?

30-40%

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www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

Okay, time to run through the 250 posts that appeared out of no where:

I am up for running the Guru Challenge, if y'all are fine with that. Aside from having way too much free time, another pastime of mine is loving to compile statistics. If this is cool with everyone, just let me know and I will put up an email address y'all can send your brackets to on August 1 (I don't want to see anyone else's before that, obviously).

I already went through this in your topic, but just to make sure you notice:

HELL. ****ING. NO.

It`s my contest after all, so I think I have the right to say I`m not fine with it. All I saw was one post from Slowflake giving a reason why he feels this would be better off in another topic, which I`ll deal with in a minute. And I love how you didn`t even ask the originator of the contest (me, obviously) if this was okay before making your own topic and asking for people to e-mail you their brackets. Not only are you on my **** list for a very long time for this, but now you may or may not have a large sample of majority information to help you fill our your bracket on top of really pissing me the hell off.

In short, I would have let you help had you simply waited for me to answer your question. But since you took it upon yourself to try and take over my contest without me giving my own damned word first, the answer is no. For a very, very long time.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I just thought of something. What if the shift of the Contest poll to a place where not everyone can see it changes the voting consensus enough that it throws a good part of the data collected in the past two years for a loop?

That's a very good theory, but I have another thought entirely on that. Ever notice how Nintendo began failing miserably after that poll was moved? Nintendo owns the casual vote on this site (IMO), and the poll being moved really boosts Square`s superiority around here until Zelda 10 comes out.

That said, Tidus's chances against Shadow got a lot better. But more on that in a minute.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

This topic has become something of a sign-up topic rather than discussion it would sem.

Which creates more posts, which makes us feel cooler. Isn't that the whole reason we created sequential topics in the first place? Honestly, who cares if we experience an elevated post count due to Guru Contest signups? The discussions are still easy enough to have.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Okay, I've done a five-minute version of my bracket (i.e. cursory and subject to change) and I've currently got Link, Megaman, Cloud and Samus as my final four, with Link and Cloud duking it out in the final match and Link emerging victorious.

I still don't get where Link got all of the love between last year and this year. I don't think KHF has worn off that much yet, and the layout change only hurts Nintendo's chances of picking up enough casual votes to win.

For me, I plan to put 2 "surprises" in my bracket that hopefully few others have. Guess what they are? :)

Frog over Solid Snake and Sonic over Samus.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Ulti, do we send our brackets to Slowflake?

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www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004 -
www.geocities.com/characterbattle2004/user.doc - A downloadable file about user of the year 2004

Sign ups?

Well, whatever it is, I suppose I'll sign up for it.

I never seem to get to the sign up topics on this board in time.
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Damnant quod non intellegunt

Now, whatever could possibly be an important match where a mainstream character is well-documented as needing all the help he can get in narrowly overcoming a somewhat niche opponent, hmm?

Tidus vs Shadow? Mario vs Crono?
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Some people have argued this site is a Square and Nintendo fanboy headquarters, but there is no proof of that.

Look closely at the few games around here with staying power on this site.

Though I hate to discourage you, I'll say that you probably won't win. Maybe top 50, but not top 10. The best thing to do is make your bracket, while expecting surprises, and contest upsets. It then becomes a "swim or sink" deal. There's no floating, there's no or swallowing water trying to swim. You either get remembered for a good rank, or sink in with the flow.

For very obvious reasons, I'm disagreeing with that entire paragraph on principle. And let me also add that those sorts of comments shouldn`t be made from someone who has already told everyone that this is their first contest. We've known these things for three years, and there is no need for someone who started posting here a week or so ago to reiterate them.

After doing some serious board lurking, here are my results:

Board opinion doesn't mean anything in close matches. The majority of the SSBM boards said that it had no chance against FFX, for example. Take all of that with a grain of salt.

I suggest that next time, the guru contest is taken care of in a separate topic

This contest was meant to stay within our circle, and though our circle has obviously gotten quite large, it`s still our circle. I can`t agree with you on that sentiment. And besides, the only thing being taken up are posts. It takes 20 seconds to create a new topic.

Crono will need to get past Magus first. In my opinion, that match may be affected more than any other by the new layout, as Crono is clearly the more mainstream choice, and Magus the one with a rabid fanbase. The new layout should give supporting characters a small boost against main characters. Most everyone I know prefers Magus, so this upset is a very real possibility in my opinion.

Most of the people you speak to will tell you that they prefer Sephiroth over Cloud as well. It doesn`t really change anything.

thirdly, i'm kinda in the same boat as Ulti about not divulging all of my picks this early. i mean, people tend to forget that this is a COMPETITION

Yay for some common sense!

even if you refuse my second point there, it's hard to believe that Tidus can make up that 17.6 percentage point gap that Sonic left him with.

I cannot picture any forseeable reason to think that Tidus would only score 41.6% on Sonic should they ever meet again. The 2002 results had some low vote totals in them. If you want proper reults, you may want to stick to solely 2003.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Lots of Guru participants this time. Perhaps we can hit a hundred this time. I also added PregnantPrincess and CrAzYCarl73 to the list.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
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Join the Official Magus RPG Party ·¤· Hosted by Camwi for Summer 2004 Contest
UltimaterializerX: Spring 2004 Contest Guru Champion!

Ulti, do we send our brackets to Slowflake?

The brackets that Slowflake collects are for the Board Odds Project. It is a project designed to give us the odds each character has when Slowflake writes up his article before every match, which is a must-read. It appears solely in this topic, and submitting a bracket for his stats is not a contest. He doesn`t tally who wins, just how many people pick certain characters in each match.

As for the Guru Contest, keep your bracket on hold. Simply copy-paste your name to the list, and be prepared to post your bracket once the topic calling for them is made.

Sign ups?

Well, whatever it is, I suppose I'll sign up for it.

Copy-paste your name onto the list.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Good old Banana already put me on the list :)

I haven't seen you since like, 02, Banana. What hava you been up to lately?
---
Damnant quod non intellegunt

Ness still did just as well against Bowser as Ratchet did against Luigi

You might want to look at those two polls again. There is a rather large difference between Ratchet and Ness. The difference obviously gets much closer when one factors in that Luigi is weaker than both Bowser and Yoshi, but I don`t feel it`s nearly enough to give Ness the win.

but, all of the yahoos who think that he will take out Solid Snake are in for a rude awkening. that's where his goofy green looks will kill him. all of the Frog fans on this board can't change the fact that he is indeed a Frog. and pictures of frogs do not have mainstream appeal, even if the frog does have a sword. =P

Honestly, what was the last good picture you saw of Solid Snake? Especially in the third round when CJayC used sprite pics last year?

It's commonly accepted that Ganondorf is within 1000 votes of Sonic at most.

Say what? That`s the first time I`ve ever heard this, and I can`t believe that would ever happen.

Before I go to bed, I'll just point out that you speak as if this board actually mattered at all.

When you see a pre-poll in which one side beats the hell out of the other in a debated match, it causes eyes to open. Snake vs Crono and Starcraft vs Wind Waker are some perfect examples of this.

Kingdom hearts lucked out early in SC2K3. Though it's still strong, it doesn't beat Nintendo's SSBM, which features Mario. Hype for a new game is not very strong unless it's already been released, OR, the previews are extremely good.

Oh yes it does. SSBM was a horrendous catalyst for characters such as Ganondorf, Ness, and Luigi. Kingdom Hearts was the far better catalyst, and I`m not debating this with you any further. It is a fact whether you believe it or not.

I don't understand Same Fanbase Factor. Does it only apply to matches where both characters are from the same game or company?

When two characters/games from the same company and the same era (people forget this) square off, one of them will get completely killed. The only exception I can really think of is Cloud vs Sephiroth for obvious reasons. The era comment was because I don`t believe SFF existed in Cloud vs Auron or Aeris vs Sora.

wait a second... i never played MGS2. was Liquid Snake even in that one? i was under the impression that he was.

Proof positive that Frog is going to the Sweet 16 with ease. I would love to see him in a match against Aeris.

Ranting? I mean raving! Stop mcoking my typos!

I`ve known you since the first days of this board, and that`s the first time you`ve ever made me laugh. I knew there was a wierdo in there somewhere =)
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

It's commonly accepted that Ganondorf is within 1000 votes of Sonic at most.

Say what? That`s the first time I`ve ever heard this, and I can`t believe that would ever happen.

Well if Sonic vs. Ganondorf gets a vote total of exactly 100 000 votes Sonic would win within 500-600 votes

I don`t believe SFF existed in Cloud vs Auron

Actually there was a very tiny one though if you look at Tails he went down .33% and Auron beat Tails so he must have gone about the same, but then again that's so little no one would see any big difference.

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Considering Zidane probably isn't exactly the strongest FF character himself, how could Vivi win?

Black Mage Factor, the fact that Aya Brea is from a far less popular game than FFIX and still took DK to the brink, and the fact that DK is weak as ****. More people picked Max Payne to win the 2003 contest than they did DK.

We have never, EVER seen SFF work that way (in favor of the weaker character), nor ever been given even the slightest hint that it's possible.

Would Mario 3 vs Zelda 1 go against that? Until LTTP/FF6, Zelda looked flat-out unstoppable.

I decided to create a topic devoted solely to the Guru Challenge...

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14923076

I`ve already yelled at you twice, but what`s one more?

Never, and I mean ****ing never steal someone`s else`s contest on this board.

Question: Will Auron being in KH2 provide him a boost next year as well? I say yes, as long as his character isn't mercilessly slaughtered by a second game like a certain Yuna.

Jim Carrey could do the voice of Auron in that game, and he would still get a boost. In my opinion, of course.

Actually, FF05 it seems to have originated in part from a bet between Shake and myself. Funny then, that he and I should each take 3rd and 2nd respectively.

Took you long enough to notice =) Yes, you and Shake inspired that contest.

Sephiroth was definitely stronger in 2k2, and I don't know of any reason the KH effect would have helped Cloud more than Seph.

Sephiroth is nothing more than an optional boss fight, while Cloud has an actual character and storyline in the game.

West 2002 factor, bro. Sephy's second and Mega's third might be legit, but at 39% instead of 43%, who knows.

I`ve seen this discussed over and over again. What is all this talk about inflated West 2002 numbers and Sephiroth overperforming against Link? I would call 43% against Link underperforming when the match was expected to be the next Mario/Cloud.

Someone needs to do an SFF-free list of the 2002 stats, and soon.

...there's also the obvious explanation that sff lowered mario's score against link.

Again, we need SFF-free 2002 stats. Those rankings are more ****ed up than the 2004 Spring Contest`s.

There's only one good explanation for Mario overperforming against Cloud, and it seems far too unlikley even for me to believe it. It's possible, but not in any way likely.

And you never told us the explanation. I`m curious, man. Don`t leave me hanging!

Henceforth, Cloud and Sephiroth's increases are really due to more people playing FF7 instead of Kingdom Hearts itself.

I`ve been saying that for a very long time now. What amazes me is that Link is still the favorite in this contest. Kingdom Hearts and the layout change will only hurt him.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Well if Sonic vs. Ganondorf gets a vote total of exactly 100 000 votes Sonic would win within 500-600 votes

Recursive rankings be damned. I just can`t see that happening.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Someone needs to do an SFF-free list of the 2002 stats, and soon.

I'll do one, but should I include the WDF (west division factor) too?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

I've only found 2 matches that had SFF

Mario vs. Donkey Kong
Link vs. Mario

Is there any others that I missed?
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Likewise, there's a factor that could ultimately affect this match, since compared to Bowser and Doom, Jak is a no-namer.

Super Smash Bros. Melee.

Slowflake, aren`t you the one who originally said that SSBM was a lousy catalyst? To say that SSBM could be the deciding factor in that match seems a little odd coming from you, and I stick to my guns that 95% of Ness`s popularity comes from Earthbound.

Ness is God awful in SSBM too.

When was the last time you were in a melee match with three of your friends and sent them all flying with a PK Flash after trapping them all in PK Fire?

But I gotta admit, it's all pretty good for fanfic purposes.

The best damned fanfic I`ve ever read, I might add. Have you fixed your problem in reference to writing about Mega Man and Sonic yet?

I'm signing up with THIS account.

Main accounts only, please. The whole idea is to be humiliated by having someone`s name in the sig of the account you use the most.

Looking cool never matters in these contests.

I can`t agree with that. Shadow the Hedgehog may defeat Tidus on the backbone of his looks alone. If the two characters are dead even, then something that small could seriously decide the match. Either way, it`s one point. One friggen point. Who cares?

Anyone who believes in the SSBM tiers are worse than those SF2 whiners.

You cannot possibly be serious. Go and read the Tier FAQ for yourself.

The tiers are completely wrong. I've seen and participated in tournaments, Marth and Sheik have never won, and Fox has won once. It depends on the skills, not the tiers. But GameFAQers need tiers to live, and they have mande it the norm, and since my opinion doesn't matter here, the stupidity will continue.

You need a balanced skill level for the tiers to be accurate. If a player completely sucks at SSBM, I can beat them at will with Pichu or Bowser.

Ryu H. would have to have the power of someone like Squall which is something he just fails to possess.

No matter what any of us say, we don`t know how strong a character is until he gets in a match for himself.

How does everyone think Kain will do against Kirby?

I say 45%, maybe more. Kirby is that damned weak, to be honest.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I'll do one, but should I include the WDF (west division factor) too?

I don`t know what the West Division Factor even is.

I've only found 2 matches that had SFF

Mario vs. Donkey Kong
Link vs. Mario

Link vs Mario is the sole reason I`d like to se an SFF-free 2002 stat sheet.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

When was the last time you were in a melee match with three of your friends and sent them all flying with a PK Flash after trapping them all in PK Fire?

None of my friends use Ness nor do I, that filthy piece of EB.. nevermind.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Grah. *signs up*

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
---
http://wootables.net/forum/index.php
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/gentopic.php?board=2685

Well I only found 2 matches with SFF.

2002 Rankings with SFF token into account

1. Link - 50.00%
2. Sephiroth - 43.35%
3. Mega Man - 42.91%
4. Samus - 41.06%
5. Sonic - 41.04%
6. Mario - 38.18%*
7. Crono - 38.14%*
8. Cloud - 38.10%*
9. Solid Snake - 35.95%*
10. Ryu - 34.61%
11. Tidus - 33.80%
12. Aeris - 31.34%*
13. Claire - 30.10%
14. Ken - 28.49%
15. Knuckles - 28.40%*
16. Jill - 27.37%
17. Dante - 25.73%*
18. Kirby - 25.54%
19. Donkey Kong - 25.34%*
20. Morrigan - 25.58%*
21. Squall - 25.07%*
22. Aya - 24.64%*
23. Strider - 24.23%
24. Scorpion - 24.02%
25. Kasumi - 23.54%*
26. Alucard - 23.41%*
27. Bomberman - 23.01%
28. Raziel - 22.98%
29. Lara - 22.52%*
30. Tails - 21.46%*
31. Pac-Man - 20.30%
32. Servbot - 20.11%*
33. Fox - 19.69%*
34. Ryo - 18.46%*
35. Duke - 18.19%*
36. Simon - 18.09%*
37. Bub - 17.37%*
38. Max - 16.64%
39. Spyro the Dragon - 16.48%*
40. Pikachu - 16.03%*
41. Crash - 16.02%
42. Q*Bert - 15.72%*
43. Little Mac - 15.69%
44. Kyo - 15.09%
45. Tina - 14.84%*
46. Terry - 14.79%*
47. PaRappa the Rapper - 14.68%*
48. Pitfall Harry - 14.42%
49. Chop Chop the Onion Master - 13.98%*
50. Kazuya - 13.93%
51. Iori - 13.74%*
52. CATS - 13.30%
53. Abe - 12.74%
54. Gordon - 12.02%*
55. Ulala - 11.78%
56. Akira - 11.48%*
57. Goemon - 11.28%
58. Guybrush - 10.85%*
59. Gabe - 10.64%
60. Kane - 10.07%
61. Dirk the Daring - 7.93%
62. Serious Sam - 7.01%
63. Ms. Pac-Man - 6.61%
64. Mr. Driller - 5.78%

*Characters with SFF adjustments

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

That's quite a lot of adjustments...

May I just say how much I love reading all this crap ^_^
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

1. Link - 50.00%
2. Sephiroth - 43.35%
3. Mega Man - 42.91%
4. Samus - 41.06%
5. Sonic - 41.04%
6. Mario - 38.18%*
7. Crono - 38.14%*
8. Cloud - 38.10%*

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwtf

Okay, what is this 2002 West Factor? I can`t bring myself to believe that those characters are all stroger than Mario, Crono, and Cloud. I thought SFF would see Mario`s percentage against Link go up once it was taken off?
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

May I just say how much I love reading all this crap ^_^

As do I. It`s like every conspiracy theory wrapped in one in this topic.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Okay, what is this 2002 West Factor?

Wasn't that how Sephiroth was so strong that he brought everyone in the West Division up in the rankings?
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

Man, Mario only moved up 1% after SFF adjusted rankings? I figured it'd be much more than that. Could you do the rankings with "The West Division Factor" put into the mess?
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

The funny thing about the ones Ulti highlighted is that they were all of course fropm the West Division 2002
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

Wasn't that how Sephiroth was so strong that he brought everyone in the West Division up in the rankings?

That's what I think it is, mostly because Sonic and Samus don't rank above the others with the West Division Factor taken into account. Someone might correct me on the fine details though.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Oooh goodie, I cannot believe it took me over four months to piss someone off, and I did not even bother with the peons...

"...but I check both lists to find that you aren`t even in the contest." -Ulti

Yeah, I would be the one fifth on that list, four people below yourself, tough guy.

"And you were going to take it upon yourself to create the spreadsheet? God, you`re lucky Ngamer64 is a great person." -Ulti

Well... if you were under the impression you were going to keep track of everyone's progress, would you want to be counting 60+ brackets without the help of Bill Gates? Didn't think so. Next, WHY am I lucky Ngamer64 is a great person? Is he gonna flame me if he wasn't? Uh-oh... and if he is so great a person (which I am sure he is; never chatted with the fella) then why the hell are you referring to him by a board ID? You can really tell me how great a person is, and still refer to them by an internet identity? Paradoxical.

"And honestly, this was a total boneheaded move on your part." -Ulti

If it was so boneheaded, why did NOONE say a word about it for over a full day? Not one???

"Sorry, kiddo." -Ulti

HEH, if you only knew the nonsensical nature of that comment...

I also had received five brackets from people sending them in early, which were deleted (without opening, obviously, since I said I was not going to put anything together 'til August 1) about ten minutes ago.

"I suggest that next time, the guru contest is taken care of in a separate topic." -SF
"yeah, i agree with Slowflake about the Guru challenge." -cyko
"Excellent. This really needed its own thread anyway since I think we have double the participants compared to last time." -Starion

I decided to turn next time into this time... what can I say, I'm a go-getter. Ooh, and I threw the last one in there to just make me feel better...

cheekyboys, Dialated Chemist, Bananaquest, and franmars all signed up in the topic, so make sure to add them onto the list.

" 'Ulti, you`re being a real ass about this.' " -Ulti, on what others will think of him
"Before even thinking of saying that, I am hijacking every single contest/project topic you own if you feel offended in any way..." -Ulti

I think it's best if I keep my mouth shut on how I think you handled the situation... and please, don't hijack my Save My Square Game! No... you will just ruin all that fun for the five people actively participating in it!

In closing, I am not an unreasonable person. I am closing the other topic, deleted the emails, and in general have done all the right things in response to your postings. Did you handle this in what even Cuba would consider diplomatic? Well, in a word no, but I don't know your MO, and maybe you aren't one for diplomacy. In any case, everything is taken care of, and everyone have a wonderful 4th of July... unless, of course, you are british, in which case "haha, we kicked your butt two and a quarter centuries ago... recognize!"

---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Interesting note about Dante vs V. Joe, now that I`ve done some research.

They`re apparently making a Viewtiful Joe 2, and both versions of V. Joe will be available on both the PS2 and the GCN. The catch with the PS2 version of V. Joe for the PS2 is that they`re putting Dante in the game to market the crowd to the Playstation franchise that would be otherwise uninteredted.

So basically, Dante wins his four pack with ease. The only question left in the entire contest for me is Viewtiful Joe vs Tails. Common sense tells me Jow should win that matchup, but it`s a toughie.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

*is British*

*thinks you suck*
---
So one day, it was 4th of July 2 years ago I believe, I saw a mouse. I was making cakes and i was like "oh no, there's a mouse"- xXSabinFigaroXx

I could honestly care less if you`re offended or anything, because it was really ****ing stupid to take the initiative on someone else`s contest.

And congrats, you found two people who think it would be a good idea to move the contest elsewhere, but have no choice but to care less as I leave it where it belongs. The other 60 or so people could also care less, I think.

So basically, you took it upon yourself to take over something that wasn`t even yours to begin with. If you have such an (admitted) lack of a life and are so willing to help out something that has nothing to do with you, couldn`t you have just created your own project a rather long time ago? I mean honestly.

Anyway, just ask the next time.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Ulti, Answer one question for me.

Does your Final 4 consist of Link,Megaman, Cloud, and Samus?

Cuz damn, you would be just like 20,000 brackets xD...Please Ulti! Say it aint so! Please say you have an original Final 4!
---
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

Ulti got served.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I`m willing to bet that you`ll see four or five hundred brackets, tops, with that Final Four.

And I was thinking about putting Sonic in there, but went against it.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

From: Phediuk | Posted: 7/4/2004 11:21:10 AM | Message Detail
Ulti got served.

Oh, you wish. And I beg to differ since his name will suddenly be disappearing from the list once I make the topic to call out the brackets ~_^
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Suuure it will.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Lack of a life? Anything but, actually; what I said was that I had way too much free time. Summer school with only 3 hours of class four days a week will do that to a person. And given that one of my summer classes is, in fact, on leisure in society, I can tell you with certainty that there is a very little coorelation between free time and social life. They are two totally seperate entities, where social life is, by definition, a component of free time, but free time has no relationship to social life. I could be the most social person in the world and still have three hours of free time a day. I am not, granted, but I could be. And I could have started a project of my own a "long time ago" but given I have only been around here since spring... and I had no free time then. Funny how things work, eh? Endless free time in the summer & winter, none in the Spring and Autumn; so goes the life of a student... and Steiner, I was joking about the whole british comment. I wish you a happy 4th of July also =)
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

From: Phediuk | Posted: 7/4/2004 11:21:10 AM | Message Detail
Ulti got served.

Oh, you wish. And I beg to differ since his name will suddenly be disappearing from the list once I make the topic to call out the brackets ~_^

I see no reason for that. He just made an honest mistake, he wasn't trying to "steal your contest" like you claim he was.

It's ultimately your call, of course. But considering that Tnote was one of the first people to sign up for the challenge, I highly doubt that his intentions were malign.
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Lack of a life? Anything but, actually; what I said was that I had way too much free time.

I only brought that up because you said so yourself. And happy 4th to you, too. Speaking of which, I live on the beach. I`m really considering going to sleep outside today.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Dude, these boards only, there are 100 brackets with this FInal 4...yes THIS BOARD ALONE. Ulti, you must expect the unexpected...If the Final 4 went that way, I honestkly think there would be a 200 Way Tie... These boards alone have about 100 people with that Final 4...I would imagine Realistically, 4-5,000 brackets with this FInal 4. Dont doubt the "Casual Gamer". Seriously...
---
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

Ulti won't really take his name off of the list. Even he can't be that petty.

Can he? I don't think so at least...
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

"Oh, you wish. And I beg to differ since his (referring to me) name will suddenly be disappearing from the list once I make the topic to call out the brackets ~_^" -Ulti

Come on... I gave you back your ball, what more do you want? Mine too? Sheesh, some just have an insatiable thirst for power, greed, notoriety, pick your poison...
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Do you have any clue how many people had Link, Cloud, Mega Man, and Sephiroth in the Final Four last year? It sure didn`t help them when Cloud opened up a can on Link.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I don`t think his intents were malign, especially considering he wasn`t in the thing last contest and most likely made an honest mistake. And I understand he was trying to help, but he didn`t even wait for me to answer his question before going ahead with his topic.

And I`m not taking his name off the list. That would be too evil for even my tastes..... maybe.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

You know, some people are "expecting the unexpected" and have that final four.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

And to get back on topic...

I think we would be looking at, at least, 5% of the brackets with a final four of three one seeds and a two. I mean, people who merely go back and look at last year will have the first three for certain, and those that go back and look at two years ago (and are simple enough to convince themselves that the smallest win ever is a lock for this year) will have all four. Honestly, I would think a good 10% of brackets will have that (with probably another 10% having the first three with Sonic), but I truly cannot imagine less than 5% of the contest expecting a different final four.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Do you have any clue how many people had Link, Cloud, Mega Man, and Sephiroth in the Final Four last year? It sure didn`t help them when Cloud opened up a can on Link.

Thanks for proving my point.
Some unexpected character is gonna open up a can..You should of all people know that the Favored Final 4 and beyond doesnt normally happen...

Link
Megaman
Cloud
Samus

Link
Cloud

Cloud

If thats your Final 4, Welcome to 10,000 other brackets..
---
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

If thats your Final 4, Welcome to 10,000 other brackets..

What are you talking about? Cloud making the final four last year wasn't surprising nor was any of the other three people being there. The surprise was who beat who in the final four. Like I said, you can have that final four and still be a lot different from the rest of the brackets.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Thats why I respect Heroic Mario's bracket..He has a twsit..If your Final 4 AND BEYOND looks like that. I can clearly imagine(honestly) 2,000 or so brackets liek that..

10,000 was just a joke..xD
---
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

And I hope a bunch of people put Sonic in the final four. =p
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

I meant Final 4 AND BEYOND...not just Final 4..Sorry. When I say beyond I mean Final 4-Championship-Winner.
---
I have no sig..Im a hardass..Obv.

Even in the last contest, the only surprise came out of the 128 bit division, and that division was just crazy. Even through all that, SSBM made the finals and it was a 2 seed. Which wasn't exactly that shocking.

Thing is, the cookie cutter final four usually turns out to be what happens. So having a "surprise" is nice for variety, but when the contest has continuously been predicted to happen otherwise, it's kind of pointless to choose variety over what's likely to happen.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

The issue with that is that no one saw Kingdom Hearts coming last year. This year, there is nothing that could have drastically changed any character`s strength between last year and this year, and all of the new matches and characters will create enough problems so that we don`t have a tie between 10 people at the top or something.

And I feel Advent Children and the Zelda trailor cancel each other out, so advantage Cloud given the new site layout.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

And unlike the 2003 contest, there is no huge favorite to win.

Link is favored slightly over Cloud, who in turn, is favored slightly over Sephiroth.

There's really no "big surprise" you can choose in the finals. Except for Megaman. But honestly... Megaman winning would just be too good to be true.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Well HM, you cannot be a lot different, what with there only being eight permutations of a four-pack. And 10k brackets having that exact final four playing out like that is definitely not happening, in fact I would think less than 5% would have it playing out exactly like that. I think we with insight take for granted the name recognition Sonic receives. Same goes for Vercetti, Solid Snake and Mario. People who just fill out a bracket, and do not look at past contests, probably have those gentlemen in the final four. Honestly, until playing SSB:M I had no clue who Samus was. Never played the Metroid series. Sonic is everywhere; cartoons, poster-child for Sega, etc... on name recognition alone he will garner much more bracket-love than the bounty hunter.
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Well HM, you cannot be a lot different,

I'm guessing around 15,000 or so having Link and Cloud (seperately) then Sephiroth, then the person I have winning (Mega Man) and so and so on. I consider that to be a lot different from what people have, and it doesn't deal with my final four it deals with my winner.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Eh... that number should be less, not 15,000 each but the point I was really trying to make there is that Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth are going to take up the vast majority of brackets when it comes to a winner.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Yeah, between the 3 of them, they probably make up 80% of the bracket winners.
---
The only reason this is here is because posts without sigs look ugly.

Very true, and while I would love to see someone not named Cloud, Link or Sephiroth win, I just cannot envision it happening. I cannot get the links to work in the 2003 character contest, but if my counting is correct, Samus and Sonic in the elite 8 was expected 66% and 33% of brackets respectively. Is that right? If so, just throw my last post out the window, and inflate the Link/Mega Man/Cloud/Samus final four prediction from 5% at a minimum to at least 2-3% higher. That shocks me...
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

Is it to late to sign up for the sig contest? Because my bracket is officially going to kick all of your asses.
---
Cool Whip. I want you to rub it all over your body so I can make love to you like only Lucky Jack can. ~SSJ3 Popo

ALPHABETICALLY
---
Cool Whip. I want you to rub it all over your body so I can make love to you like only Lucky Jack can. ~SSJ3 Popo

You can signup until August 1st if I'm not mistaken.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Don't ask me... =)
---
7/9 Noms got into the contest... Semifinalists(at heart): Link, Luca Blight, Tommy Vercetti, Frog, Cloud, Sephiroth, Sonic, Gordon Freeman

*signs*

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
---
Cool Whip. I want you to rub it all over your body so I can make love to you like only Lucky Jack can. ~SSJ3 Popo

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

The best damned fanfic I`ve ever read, I might add. Have you fixed your problem in reference to writing about Mega Man and Sonic yet?

Getting better at that. Sonic's gone, o'course, Mega Man's getting better written now, and we're looking for new authors to help out in that area come 2004.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Sonic's gone, o'course

WTF?
---
"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

"Cloud, Link, Megaman, Sephiroth(CLMS)"

I'd like to see THAT final 4....
---
*isn't an alt*

Gone for 2003, I mean. Remember, we're still working on that, we're slow bastards.
---
I will never utter the sentence "But before I kill you, there's just one thing I want to know."

Ulti - I knew that the guru contest was inspired by Shake and myself, I was trying to be modest :) I assure you, I won't try for modesty again. Also, while it's hard to believe, Sunshine is likely what gave Mario the win in 2k2... though even I can't understand how.

The "same bracket" people - You gotta make a choice. If you're playing to win there's game theory or there's the math. If you take the math you just gotta hope you get more close matches correctly, if you take the game theory you have to hope that the math is utterly destroyed by a single character AND that you correctly guess that character correctly. The chances are slim of that happening. Maybe you're me, and you think if Crono could just squeeze by Mario he may be a bigger powerhouse against Link then expected. If you think about it, it could be true. Neither are known as great conversationalists, both carry swords, both are known for time travelling adventures, both have gone out of their way to save a princess they didn't even know... Link has more games under his belt, but it still almost comes down to a matter of Nintendo or Square. With casual vote down, you gotta lean even more towards Square than normal. CT beat LttP, and in the rankings was increadibly close to OoT. Not many people really missed out on OoT, but a lot missed out on CT. What if they downloaded roms and enjoyed the game, and suddenly CT has mroe fans becuase it had such a good showing in the spring. It wouldn't be unreasonable to say 100 people could have gone that route, and if they liked CT more then who knows what will happen... and then, after all that reasoning, do you believe Crono will win against Link? That's game theory for you, and you have to take unreasonable chances using it. Typically, it doesn't pay off, and if you're just in it to look good GT won't do that for you.
---
I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

Heh, I copied wrong. It was supposed to read "Cloud, Link, Megaman, Samus."
Well, if there are no surprises this contest, then it will be very hard to get into top 50 because everyone's brackets will be alike......especially if your user name comes near the end of the alphabet. >.<
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

It's not alphabetical, it's date of bracket entry
---
*isn't an alt*

Yeah. The people who get on the list at the beginning are the 50 people who entered their brackets the earliest. For example, if you made your bracket on the first day it came out and haven't made a change your likely to be on the leader board after Link wins.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Finally, Ulti noticed that something was wrong with the West Division in 2002.

And the SFF adjustment for Mario/Link 2002 is a mere 0.7%? Negligeable, I say. Just like Tails' 0.33% loss. Below 1.5% there's nothing wrong with anything.

How in the world did Knuckles score 2.5% lower in 2003 than in 2002 is beyond me though. I'm curious to see how it will turn out this time around. Yes, I said I'd like to see the match again. Sue me.

NEXT: Rearranged bracket, as promised.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

My Responses

1. Link - 50.00%
2. Sephiroth - 43.35%
3. Mega Man - 42.91%
4. Samus - 41.06%
5. Sonic - 41.04%
6. Mario - 38.18%*
7. Crono - 38.14%*
8. Cloud - 38.10%*

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwtf

That just proves that there was a West Division Factor

Man, Mario only moved up 1% after SFF adjusted rankings? I figured it'd be much more than that.

Of coarse stats shows that Mario barley suffered from SFF in Mario vs. Link.

Could you do the rankings with "The West Division Factor" put into the mess?

Sure I’ll start it once I post this I’ll get started

---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

The rearranged bracket. I tried to keep as many matches as possible intact, and create some new ones too, while making the seeds look more credible. Of course, I had no choice to make some characters go from underseeded to overseeded (Alucard, Tails) or the reverse (Kirby, Luigi, Yoshi). But overall, I think it's pretty good.

/ (1) Link
\ (16) CATS
/ (8) Yoshi
\ (9) Luigi Mario
/ (5) Alucard Tepes
\ (12) Crash Bandicoot
/ (4) Ganondorf Dragmire
\ (13) Ratchet
/ (6) Tommy Vercetti
\ (11) Max Payne
/ (3) Zero
\ (14) Protoman
/ (7) Master Chief
\ (10) Pac-Man
/ (2) Megaman
\ (15) Earthworm Jim

/ (1) Mario Mario
\ (16) JC Denton
/ (8) Ness
\ (9) Jak
/ (5) Squall Leonhart
\ (12) Bomberman
/ (4) Bowser
\ (13) Guybrush Threepwood
/ (6) Auron
\ (11) Scorpion
/ (3) Janus "Magus" Zeal
\ (14) Luca Blight
/ (7) Knuckles the Echidna
\ (10) Kefka Palazzo
/ (2) Crono
\ (15) Conker

/ (1) Cloud Strife
\ (16) Ryo Hazuki
/ (8) Vyse
\ (9) Laharl
/ (5) Shadow the Hedgehog
\ (12) Kain
/ (4) Tidus
\ (13) Duke Nukem
/ (6) Dante Sparda
\ (11) Kirby
/ (3) Sonic the Hedgehog
\ (14) Terry Bogard
/ (7) Sam Fisher
\ (10) Lara Croft
/ (2) Samus Aran
\ (15) Gordon Freeman

/ (1) Sephiroth
\ (16) Sly Cooper
/ (8) Donkey Kong
\ (9) Vivi Ornitier
/ (5) Frog
\ (12) Liquid Snake
/ (4) Ryu (SF)
\ (13) KOS-MOS
/ (6) Sora
\ (11) HK-47
/ (3) Ryu Hayabusa
\ (14) Jill Valentine
/ (7) Viewtiful Joe
\ (10) Miles "Tails" Prower
/ (2) Solid Snake
\ (15) Tanner
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Charmander: Please only use Sonic, Ryu or Megaman as standards; they are the only viable ones AFAIK.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

/ (6) Dante Sparda
\ (11) Kirby

XD
---
Anyone but Cloud for Summer Contest 2004!
Chrono Cross points: 160

Why do people keep saying that the casual vote doesn't favor Square?

These people (casual voters) are the ones who were more favorable to Xenogears than the boards were, and these are the people who always vote Square in the Favorite Company POTD.

Plus, I think the boards are just as much Pro-Nintendo as they are Pro-Square.
---
Get Aeris and Zelda in the Summer Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=7&topic=14874452

Depends on what you mean by "casual vote".

If you mean the so-called daytime vote, in that aspect Sonic > Nintendo > Square > everything else.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
69 - Fett0001
---
I'm a LUEser now.

Well I lowered Sephiroth by 4% because 3 made Samus and Sonic too close, but 5 made Mega Man weaker then Mario.

2002 Rankings with SFF token into account

1. Link - 50.00%
2. Sephiroth - 39.35%w
3. Mega Man - 38.95%w
4. Mario - 38.18%*
5. Crono - 38.14%*
6. Cloud - 38.10%*
7. Samus - 37.27%w
8. Sonic - 37.26%w
9. Solid Snake - 35.95%*
10. Ryu - 31.42%w
11. Aeris - 31.34%*
12. Tidus - 30.68%w
13. Knuckles - 28.40%*
14. Jill - 27.37%
15. Claire - 26.58%w
16. Ken - 25.86%w
17. Dante - 25.73%*
18. Morrigan - 25.58%*
19. Kirby - 25.54%
20. Donkey Kong - 25.34%*
21. Squall - 25.07%*
22. Aya - 24.64%*
23. Strider - 24.23%
24. Scorpion - 24.02%
25. Kasumi - 23.54%*
26. Alucard - 23.41%*
27. Bomberman - 23.01%
28. Raziel - 22.98%
29. Lara - 22.52%*
30. Tails - 21.46%*
31. Pac-Man - 20.30%
32. Servbot - 20.11%*
33. Fox - 19.69%*
34. Ryo - 18.46%*
35. Duke - 18.19%*
36. Simon - 18.09%*
37. Bub - 17.37%*
38. Max - 16.64%
39. Spyro the Dragon - 16.48%*
40. Pikachu - 16.03%*
41. Q*Bert - 15.72%*
42. Little Mac - 15.69%
43. Kyo - 15.09%
44. Tina - 14.84%*
45. Terry - 14.79%*
46. PaRappa the Rapper - 14.68%*
47. Crash - 14.54%w
48. Chop Chop the Onion Master - 13.98%*
49. Kazuya - 13.93%
50. Iori - 13.74%*
51. Pitfall Harry - 13.08%w
52. Abe - 12.74%
53. CATS - 12.07%w
54. Gordon - 12.02%*
55. Akira - 11.48%*
56. Goemon - 11.28%
57. Guybrush - 10.85%*
58. Ulala - 10.70%w
59. Kane - 10.07%
60. Gabe - 9.67%w
61. Dirk the Daring - 7.93%
62. Serious Sam - 6.36%w
63. Ms. Pac-Man - 6.00%w
64. Mr. Driller - 4.97%w

*Characters with SFF adjustments
w means West Division Factor fixed

I'll be watching Portugal vs. Greece so I won't be able to respond until latter (Go Portugal)
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

Thanks for the SFF/WDF adjusted standings charmander. Pretty interesting.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Great job there. I salute you.

So, Tidus actually overtook Aeris for third strongest FF character title. I knew that already, but it's fun to see actual numbers.

Now, if only we could quantify the anti-Mario vote factor. I get a feeling Tidus/Shadow and the subsequent match against Megaman will tell us volumes about it, since Morri isn't coming back anyway.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Thats why I respect Heroic Mario's bracket..He has a twsit..If your Final 4 AND BEYOND looks like that. I can clearly imagine(honestly) 2,000 or so brackets liek that..

Sadly, I think Heroic Mario's bracket might be exactly the same as mine. The more people hype Mega Man, the sadder I get. =(

---
"A fool and his money are soon elected."
- Will Rogers

There are plenty of matches inbetween the finals that are bound to be different in our brackets.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
69 - Fett0001
70 - Fantusta

I've made some changes in my bracket so as to feel there's some random confluence of events that could give me a chance.
Plus, I've got space in my signature.
---
"All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4
{34}

If your Final 4 AND BEYOND looks like that. I can clearly imagine(honestly) 2,000 or so brackets liek that..


who cares if you have the same Final Four as everyone else? then the other 50 matches will decide whose bracket wins.



Now, if only we could quantify the anti-Mario vote factor. I get a feeling Tidus/Shadow and the subsequent match against Megaman will tell us volumes about it, since Morri isn't coming back anyway.



i will agree with you there, Slowflake. not only that, but i think this will also test the theory of whether or not the new site layout attracts fewer casual votes that vote for the "cooler" pic.

ya know after thinking about it, if that theory does hold true, Kefka vs. Knuckles will be a whole lot closer than we think. Kefka is one character who couldn't get a casual vote based on his pic if his life depended on it. the only people who will vote for him are hardcore (and somewhat hardcore) fans who already know him. now if the new site layout truly has reduced the number of people who vote for the cooler pic because they are just passing through, than Knuckles votes would be greatly reduced.

add to that the possibility that CJayC might actually use Kefka's sprite pic (or something that at least resembles Kefka), then Kefka actually could pull off the upset. but only IF the new position of the poll truly has cut down the number of casual voters.

---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Since there are plenty of people that know their game theory, I might as well ask that question now. Not to influence my pick, but just for fun.

Crono's currently murdering Mario in the BOP, so most of the board probably has Crono winning. However, it's likely that the rest of the brackets will have Mario winning, like last year. The question is, if the board is in average better than the others, but the overall majority goes against the board, what does game theory say to pick?
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Crono's currently murdering Mario in the BOP, so most of the board probably has Crono winning. However, it's likely that the rest of the brackets will have Mario winning, like last year. The question is, if the board is in average better than the others, but the overall majority goes against the board, what does game theory say to pick?

mass carriers = instant win


---
you guys nominated the wrong Shadow..... =(
Through great Luck (and a bit of skill) ULTI pounded me in the Spring Contest!!

Are you referring to the Zelda: WW vs. SC prepoll that Ulti did ?

Crono's currently murdering Mario in the BOP, so most of the board probably has Crono winning. However, it's likely that the rest of the brackets will have Mario winning, like last year. The question is, if the board is in average better than the others, but the overall majority goes against the board, what does game theory say to pick?

If it is supposed to be that you go against the popular opinion and hope that it pays off, then wouldn't it be Crono?
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Well, like Ulti says, it's not good to depend on the opinions of others. So, even if this board thinks Crono will win, it might not happen. On the other hand, if everyone chose Mario to win, we shouldn't be trusting their opinions either. But the last factor to take into account is bracket voting(which doesn't happen with a large percentile of people).
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

The thing about Mario vs. Crono that I see just giving Crono the win is the poll's position. Sure, it could happen to not affect things on a large scale but it only needs to sway 120 some odd voters in favor of Crono and guess who wins? That coupled with Crono leading for the entire match and managing around 1,000 votes doesn't necessarily seem like a lot of pros for Mario other than his clutch. =\
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Can you guys not see the poll without scrolling down? Because I don't need to scroll to see it...

I'm going to go for a cookie-cutter bracket this time around. I took a few risks last contest and few of them paid off.

LordOfDabu
Believe the hype.

I don't think that scrolling down will take a big effect. Besides, there aren't THAT many casual visitors. If there were, why don't they just sign up for an account? Anyway, I think whether the match is on weekends or not is a bigger factor.
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

I don't either but unless I'm mistaken, it's lower with the contests.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Ah... Well what is the point of that T_T? I can't remember whether I had to scroll down for the Spring Contest >_>.

There are many more casual voters than you think... Gamefaqs gets a LOT of traffic.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Can you guys not see the poll without scrolling down? Because I don't need to scroll to see it...

If your screen resolution is less than 1024x768 you need to scroll down. Even if you don't have to scroll, it doesn't catch your attention as much as if it were in the top right corner.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Well that explains it... That is my exact resolution.

Besides, there aren't THAT many casual visitors.

In a match between Pokemon vs. Xenogears there was some sort of glitch that only allowed registered users to vote and there was around 10,000 total votes I believe at the midday point.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

There are many more casual voters than you think... Gamefaqs gets a LOT of traffic.

Since the site change, traffic has been down over 20%.
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

It's weird. I just clicked "home" for gamefaqs, and right before the page loaded, my fingers immediately scrolled down. I think this is just my habit of exploring a page up and down, and not just the top.

I'm going to go for a cookie-cutter bracket this time around. I took a few risks last contest and few of them paid off.

I agree. Taking risks in moderation is very helpful. Taking too many is not good, taking none means not qualifying for top 50 at least. But one bad thing about taking few risks: if they are wrong, you get no profit. At least if you take a few more, some of those risks will prove helpful.
---
Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

Since the site change, traffic has been down over 20%

There is still a lot.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Slowflake:
I ranked Auron above Tidus, Magus above Crono and Yoshi + Luigi above Bowser and quite close to Mario before last year's contest, costing me four points total. I'm not falling for the evil fan-favorite trap ever again.

This has nothing, I mean nothing, to do with the fan-favorite trap. It would be shocking for DK to beat Vivi. Truly shocking.

Kaxon:
Actually, I think that Cloud/Sephiroth suggests that it's possible. It's reasonable to believe that Sephiroth is more popular overall, but lost against Cloud due to a hero/villain effect.

Nope. Expectations via dynamic expectations had Cloud winning that match with 52%, plus or minus not very much. Thinking that Cloud won despite being weaker is a total myth.

This leads me to believe that Sephiroth may have underperformed against Cloud in the finals (which explains why he only gained 6% in the extrapolated standings, instead of 11%).

See above. I was extremely confident Cloud would win the finals last year because of extrapolated strength--he just came out stronger.

Given the fact that you should have expected Cloud to win beforehand, saying that Sephiroth underperformed against him doesn't make sense. He performed almost exactly like you should've expected him to.

Sephiroth was definitely stronger in 2k2, and I don't know of any reason the KH effect would have helped Cloud more than Seph.

As others have mentioned, Cloud was a lot more prominent in the game.


On Ness vs. Jak: As I said before, I think people are underestimating how well-known Jak is. Like Heroic Mario said his games sold pretty well.

As for people trying to use the game contest--well, Earthbound didn't do horribly bad, but remember that the 128 division ended being the strongest division on average. Newer games like Jak and Dexter and it's sequel should have no trouble with an older game like Earthbound.

I don't think that's relevant because I think Ness does benefit from SSB and SSBM, but I don't see how Jak isn't the favorite in this match. Jak > Ratchet almost for sure.

cyko:
ya know, i still haven't seen any arguments here that show Jak to be any different than Ratchet. i guess his game did sell a little better than Ratchet's, but i haven't seen either get more exposure than the other.

Ahhh, but that was exactly my point earlier. Jak is more exposed than Ratchet, no doubt about that. Not only did his games sell much more, but they were much more heavily marketed.

Ulti:
Would Mario 3 vs Zelda 1 go against that? Until LTTP/FF6, Zelda looked flat-out unstoppable.

In hindsight, it would appear very unlikely for The Legend of Zelda to be stronger than SMB3. It was likely weaker, though IMO it suffered slightly due to SFF.

Slowflake:
Crono's currently murdering Mario in the BOP, so most of the board probably has Crono winning. However, it's likely that the rest of the brackets will have Mario winning, like last year. The question is, if the board is in average better than the others, but the overall majority goes against the board, what does game theory say to pick?

I was thinking on this myself. Thing is, it depends. It's too difficult to say without numbers. The most sensible thing is to think on who you think your main competition. The masses, whose average scores will be much less, but will still have outliers who perform very well yet are not BOP predictors; or BOP predictors, who are few but have higher scores on average?

I presume that last year's Top 50 had a lot more non-BOP/board people in it than those that were (though I haven't checked), so I would the masses are the greater competition; but, those who end up as the elite among the masses probably have opinions more like the BOP.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti

As for all this talk on tiers...
redsox777:
It is humanly impossible to make a perfectly balanced fighter where the characters are not exact copies of each other.

Exactly.

If you have a tournament where each player has to play a number of times, with multiple characters--selected randomly--some characters will end up with higher winning percentages than others.

There may be some non-linear dynamics here, like certain characters being better against others, or players of different skill levels being better with certain characters; but there will still be clear differences where one character is just better than another. And by "better", I mean that they win more often.

Like redsox777 said, unless characters are carbon copies of each other, it is impossible for them to be equally effective in all circumstances.
---
Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

The people debating Tidus vs Shadow are pretty funny, if you ask me. Look at those 2002 stats, specifically at Servbot and Morrigan. If a new bracket was released would you honestly pick Servbot anf Morrigan to take down every character they placed above in the standings?

Shadow could very well be this year`s Morrigan. He did well against Mario, but that`s Mario. It really sucks to make a case on why a chracter I loathe may win against one of the coolest-looking characters I`ve ever seen, but it`s there. The only thing that could save Shadow is the picture of the match.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I disagree about Shadow. He has a serious chance of beating Tidus. It's one of the hardest matches to decide, IMO.

I'll probably post some of my analysis for the tougher matches tomorrow or Tuesday (I really should be unpacking boxes right now...moving sucks) because I'm in Canada and thus have no serious competitive interest in the contest (aside from the Guru challenge :)
---
Married to UltimaterializerX on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week.

We've have had alot of discussions, but I want to know what you people think in the Vyse vs. Laharl match. Think Vyse will lose since he is ranked pretty low in the rankings and his game was second to last in the 128 bit division also people are saying Disgrea (sp?) is very popular on this site. The only advantage I see Vyse having is people are seen him and/or his game in the past contest and people may remember him.

Well I'm going to bed so good-night.
---
LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC

It really sucks to make a case on why a chracter I loathe may win against one of the coolest-looking characters I`ve ever seen, but it`s there.

Cheer up =). If you are lucky, he'll fall to Blue Bomber Curse in the next round =D.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14944575

Since the site change, traffic has been down over 20%.

Any proof of this? I can see how casual visitors may not notice the polls. However, I think casual visitors are more concerned about looking for guides. The poll numbers may not be a good indicator.

---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

Some search engine tells statistics about site traffic and I do remember the traffic being significantly lower after the change... At least, I THINK I remember that. *scratches head*
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

ulti, i'll pay you a dollar if you show me your bracket *winks*
---
"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!"

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=&url=www.gamefaqs.com

This shows the traffic details for gamefaqs over the past little while. In the past three months, traffic has gone down a whopping 26%.
---
Ulti pulled a Damage Split on my bracket. Go Guru Ulti!
Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) www.rpgdl.com

Yeah, I just found the site too. Thing is, it's actually been declining since the start of 2004...

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=medium&compare_sites=&url=http://www.gamefaqs.com/#top
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Interesting. Users need the Alexa toolbar to be counted in the stats though. I don't know how that affects things.
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=medium&compare_sites=gamespot.com&url=gamefaqs.com#top

That's kind of interesting. It looks like all gaming sites have been decreasing for the most part. ign.com has been decreasing too, except for a bit spike.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=2y&size=medium&compare_sites=ign.com&url=gamefaqs.com#top
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Yeah, I was about to post the same observation. It isn't just gamefaqs.com. It's happening to gamespot, gamespy, ign etc. All of their numbers are down from the start of 2004. All the graphs look eerily similar.
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

I have a question regarding Link's status in this contest. Maybe I haven't been paying attention but I haven't noticed anyone talking about the fact that Wind Waker Link's pic was used for EVERY round last year except for the sprite round. Just as Cloud had an appearance in Kingdom Hearts, Link had an appearance in Soul Calibur 2. It almost felt like Link was handicapped because of the WW pics.

I feel without a doubt that the contest would have turned out different if Link had different pics as well. It has already been said that pictures DO matter in this contest. With Soul Calibur II already established AND the new Legend of Zelda game out, there had BETTER be Link pics from one or both of those games. I think it would only be fair to see how the characters would fair with the best pics available.

Am I the only one who thinks this? Or has this subject already been covered?
---
"There are only 10 kinds of people in this world, those that read binary and those that don't."

The picture factor is vastly overrated, I believe. There are very few times when it might actually come into play, and none of them involve Link. I doubt having a different picture could've netted him an extra 5000 votes.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

Well Cloud having his KH piccy probably didn't help Link... But what do I know?

Link's strength barely changed at all from 2002 to 2003. In fact, Link's strength is basicly considered a constant since it changed by so little. So the WW pics pretty much had no effect at all on Link's performance in 2003. Pics really only matter for weak characters, characters most voter won't know about. If the voter doesn't recognize either character, they will vote for the one that looks better.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Well that does make more sense... Thank you.

If the voter doesn't recognize either character, they will vote for the one that looks better.

Gordon vs. Tina, hehe.

And honestly, Ulti makes a good point. Would you put Servbot over half the 2002 bracket? Morri over two thirds of it? No... just no. If votes are lost, it will likely hinder SHADOW more than anything, since Sonic absolutely owns the so-called "casual vote". And there's another thing... you don't know what sort of **** could go down in a Mario vs. Sonic match, even if it's just a Sonic recolor. And if there is one, the unfair advantage would go to the recolor. Shadow's only chance is KH dying out. And that's not a given, either... though if it happens, it's instant championship for Link. Or Megaman, if you're THAT faithful.

Tidus with 53-54%.

Something else... I'm seriously considering swithching back from Hayabusa to Jill. I mean, Ryu would need to score like 35% on Samus to win that first round match, and also be able to beat Luigi. And look at what Jill is surrounded by in the standings: Vercetti, DK, Kirby, Knuckles. Is Hayabusa really strong enough to take these guys out? Speaking of which, what IS Hayabusa's part in the game? Is he as characterless as Gordon Freeman?
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Resident Evil Outbreak and Ninja Gaiden were both released recently.

Ryu H. has a 3 seed, Jill has a 14. Example factor or not, that means something to me.
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

I'm taking this with the same grain of salt that made me put LttP over SM and FF6.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Would you put Servbot over half the 2002 bracket? Morri over two thirds of it?

Servbot, hell no.

Morrigan, I would put her over anyone on the North 2K2 division save for Mario, Cloud, Alucard and maybe DK/Aya. Servbot, Spyro, Bub, Terry, Tails, Duke Nukem, Iori, Parappa, Pikachu and Fox are all wussies. [No offense to the fans of those characters] 2K2 was pretty weak anyways.
---
Because how could I not do this forbidden thing, when it feels so good!

I thought the general idea was that the 2K2 rankings were totally screwed up.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Go check Charmander's fix on them... if anything, that fix only RAISES Morri's position.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

save for Mario, Cloud, Alucard and maybe DK/Aya

Even by fixing Mario/DK SFF, Morri is still well ahead of the last three...
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

So a good portion of that contests rankings are useless... People should still be able to determine which stats are useful and which are total flukes.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

But Jill isn't in Outbreak. Heck, none of the previous RE characters are in Outbreak. And when you include sales in the equation, that game becomes a non-factor.
---
Master Guru UltimaterializerX is my can of tuna!!
Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

2002 contest = worthless crap

More than 50% of the bracket was fodder.
---
Vote for Luca Blight in the SC2K4!

Wait a sec... The 2K2 bracket was just being used as a reason why Shadow doing well against Mario in 2K3 didn't mean he is strong enough to beat Tidus right? Well, personally, I feel Tidus' power may have dropped from last year which makes sense since FFX isn't exactly one of the favorite final fantasies so the characters are bound to get less and less popular. Also, I think Shadow may have just remained the same, mainly because he is the clear choice for the casual vote.

The only thing that can affect it is the layout, but we don't really know how many people have their resolution set in a way where they can't see the poll without scrolling. If there aren't a lot and Tidus really did weaken a bit, Shadow oughta take it.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

^^^^^

If that sounded like rambling, which it may have, that's because I didn't go to bed.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Aloha.

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
69 - Fett0001
70 - Fantusta
71 - Dilated Chemist

---
Summer 2004 Contest - Score: ---/---
= Link vs. CATS =

Or Megaman, if you're THAT faithful.

Yep. ;)
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

That's it. Switched back to Jill in the Sweet 16. Somehow I just don't think the NES games can help Hayabusa very much, and Ninja Gaiden fell back below Halo and Morrowind in board traffic.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Even by fixing Mario/DK SFF, Morri is still well ahead of the last three...

Guts. Dunno why, but seeing a fighter not called Ryu ahead of someone who got almost 30% on Sephy feels wrong. The DK/Aya is just personal intepretation.
---
Because how could I not do this forbidden thing, when it feels so good!

How long was Ninja Gaiden up there though? And the NES games will give a decent boost probably, since a lot of "old school" gamers come to the site and might either remember Ryu from Ninja Gaiden or, possibly even DOA. And then you also get the newer generation which will know him well from the new Ninja Gaiden. Also, based on that look thing, ninjas are pretty cool looking and have that reputation which can only help.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

Not even 40% of the GameFAQs populace owns an X-Box, keep that in mind.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

How long was Ninja Gaiden up there though?

How long was KOTOR there? As long as Ninja Gaiden... and it failed to make a significant dent in Vice City.

And it's not how popular it once was, it's how it is NOW. And NOW, Ninja Gaiden is below Halo.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

It still managed to stay on the high traffic list for a while. And a large amount of the gamefaqs population probably owned an NES at one point or at least downloaded an emulator. Heck, I owned one for a little while and I was only 3 when it was in style =/ Of course, I don't remember ever having it but that's besides the point.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

(Crap, pasted wrong thing)

Not even 40% of the GameFAQs populace owns an X-Box, keep that in mind.


And the other 60% despises that 40% <_<

But I said RyuH, and I'm not changing it. It worked for SSBM (Had it on the F4, but losing to OoT -_-)
---
Because how could I not do this forbidden thing, when it feels so good!

>_>

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
69 - Fett0001
70 - Fantusta
71 - Dilated Chemist
72 - BFitz310

<_<
---
"Weak! They're all so weak!" ~ Albedo ^_^

Well, no Resident Evil games have any top 10 traffic.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

And the Ninja Gaiden FAQ is still above Halo.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

And finally, these are the board traffics for all gamecube resident evils and xbox's ninja gaiden:


Board Title l Topics l Msgs l Last Post
Ninja Gaiden l 380 l 3777 l 7/5 9:01 AM
Resident Evil l 130 l 2403 l 7/5 5:25 AM
Resident Evil 0 l 51 l 484 l 7/5 8:08 AM
Resident Evil 2 l 28 l 193 l 7/5 5:40 AM
Resident Evil 3: Nemesis l 17 l 148 7/5 7:22 AM
Resident Evil Code: Veronica X l 20 l 262 7/5 12:18 AM

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The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

wow, not having the internet for a day causes me to have to read through a lot of posts....


With that, I know this was yesterday and all, but when was the Guru Challenge Ultimaterializer's contest? I know you posted the topic for it, but I don't see where all that hostility came from. I don't even remember anywhere even seeing where it was explicitly your contest, does a contest like that really even need a leader? We posted our brackets in a topic, and, correct me if I'm wrong, ngamer64 did the stats and stuff....I always thought it was more of a group concensus thing to do, not really the result of a leader type...

Even if that's wrong, tnotez didn't really do anything insane, and I also agree that the signups would have been better off in another topic as well, they don't really bother me here, but they don't exactly belong here either. Who really cares if its our little circle, more people just means more sig spots anyway, and there's not really too much that separates the Guru's from the others, other than the fact that we voice our opinions. Intending to exclude others comes off as a bit elitist imo, and its not like we really get tainted by more people.

Whatever, I don't mean to restir trouble, I just didn't want to let that go.

---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Ugh... now I'm back with Hayabusa, since MC is an oddball BECAUSE he represents the X-Box. Hayabusa doesn't.

Damn you X-Box, for being as unpredictable as a Mario/Crono match.
---
SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

Jill over Hayabusa? That just isn't happening.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

You have made the right choice.
---
The topic is dead. Not the kind of dead that can be cured with a Phoenix Down. I'm talking FMV sequence dead.- The King in Teal

FastFalcon: Apparently tying for 1st in the overall contest and the depature of Ngamer means Ulti has decided to claim it as his own.
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"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

FastFalcon: Apparently tying for 1st in the overall contest and the depature of Ngamer means Ulti has decided to claim it as his own.

http://sc2k4.com/archive/04SpringPreSeason2.htm
Post 264.
Search for "Alright, if I`m not the only one up for this, I propose a little idea among us."
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"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

I don't see any reason for Tidus's popularity to drop. That Game of the Year Poll with FFX beating everyone, including SSBM, isn't as accurate because you don't know how many of those people who voted for other games prefered Melee over FFX. Not to mention, Polls of the Day have lower vote totals than the contest. It doesn't mean that it's suddenly less popular because it lost to SSBM.

Oh, and Heroic Mario, why are you so positive that Jill over Hayabusa just isn't happening? She's not exactly a weakling, and Ryu is unproven.
---
Squall Leonhart's Road to the Summer Championship
First round: (13)Bomberman

I think that the Poll of the day is less popular because gamefaqs users vote less often. I think that the casual comers are the same during contest, and just plain old everyday.

Ryu H over Jill is in my bracket, but choose carefully because the winner of this match will probably defeat Sora/HK-47.
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Yet in the proximity of blight, I seek the Love and the Light. <><
Word of the Week: euthanasia¤a painless death

Oh, and Heroic Mario, why are you so positive that Jill over Hayabusa just isn't happening? She's not exactly a weakling, and Ryu is unproven.

Because I have no reason to believe that Jill can beat Ryu when she placed below Master Chief. People really have a problem with new characters and try to favor the old ones just because they've been in the contest before, with Ryu is is from someone who is just from the Xbox. He isn't an exclusive character like Master Chief and he isn't from the much disliked FPS genre at GameFAQs. I have never even thought about this match, but that's just me.
---
Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif

Here's another odd first round match: Kefka or Knuckles? The extrapolateds have Knux by a mile, but I still think Kefka got slammed by SFF against Crono. An upset possibility or a lock for Knuckles?
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Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

Kefka barely beat Pacman, Thats all you need to know.
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Link kills baby seals.

Kefka would've gotten 25% at most against Crono without SFF. Mark my words. He did bad enough against Pac-Man to warrant that.
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SC2K4 Status - Elite 8: LINK, Mario, MEGAMAN, Snake, CLOUD, Sephiroth, Sonic, SAMUS

hmm, alright, I suppose that proves that he took the step in starting it, I"ll admit that, but it just came off as overeacting just a little too much for me.
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If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

1 - UltimaterializerX
2 - Heroic Mario
3 - Sephirot1
4 - Ringworm
5 - Tnote827
6 - charmander6000
7 - DaruniaTheKing
8 - SteveIllumina
9 - Nightmare 45
10 - Krusty the Klown
11 - Red Sox 777
12 - Naye745
13 - Starion
14 - Yesmar
15 - swirldude
16 - King Morgoth
17 - jonthomson
18 - Z1mZum
19 - DomaDragoon
20 - Alanna82
21 - FastFalcon05
22 - andaca
23 - TyRaNuS
24 - Lieutenant Kettch
25 - Scoop Li
26 - FrostHarpy
27 - yoblazer33
28 - irriadin
29 - Haunter12O
30 - Aprosenf
31 - BeTheMan
32 - RamzaB
33 - Mac Arrowny
34 - Tai
35 - Cavemanbob
36 - Tarrot
37 - Phediuk
38 - TheCalmness
39 - nifboy
40 - WiggumFan267
41 - perdevious
42 - Haste2
43 - Yokel
44 - Qwaar
45 - MasterMage119
46 - arkenaga
47 - Shadowdude
48 - Tequilla Gundam
49 - Ziwei
50 - smitelf
51 - Heroic Knuckles
52 - StopPokingMe
53 - cyko
54 - Salient
55 - Sir Chris
56 - TheRye
57 - Rufus Shinra 18
58 - nh82
59 - Steinershocker
60 - Smurf Thy Legend
61 - BocaSE
62 - Garsha II
63 - A Hogasm IN POG FORM
64 - PregnantPrincess
65 - CrAzYCarl73
66 - Bananaquest
67 - Lone Saiyajin
68 - Aeon Azuran
69 - Fett0001
70 - Fantusta
71 - Dilated Chemist
72 - BFitz310
73- ChichiriMuyo

Yeah, I'm in. I got myself a plan to deal with my math/gt indecission.
---
I stand second only to the one and only Lord of Gurus, UltimaterializerX who bested me by no less than 11 points!

It was definitely overreacting, but I feel that it was somewhat warranted in this case. Intentional or not, it's just never a good idea to help someone else out with their contest unless you ask first. But considering that he didn't know that it was originally my idea, I've let it go.

And I'm learning to type with actual apostraphes. You saw it here first.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

*marvels at '*

and yeah.

also, does anyone think Sora can take his fourpack, I let him slaughter, for lack of a more graphic word, my bracket last year, it was bad. *shudders* But, if there was sff with aeris, I think he has a shot at winning there.
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

*blinks* Ulti used normal apostrophes? *blinks again* Nope, my eyes aren`t deciving me......
---
Anyone but Cloud for Summer Contest 2004!
Chrono Cross points: 160

I don't think Sora can win it because of his rather lackluster performance last year...I have HK-47 winning right now, solely because I don't want to get screwed by Starcraft again, but that may change. I'm guessing HK-47 is much weaker than Starcraft, the question is by how much. Sora got doubled up by Aeris, making him pretty hard to judge, Jill is fairly weak, and Ryu is untested. Pretty tough 4 pack, really, with two new characters and two weak ones.
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Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

er, i don't quite know how you can get screwed again by starcraft considering where hk-47 is from....
---
2k4 - The Summer of Sephiroth.

Eh? I thought HK-47 was from Starcraft? Please explain.
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Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

HK-47 is from KotOR.
---
"Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts..."
"All dreams are but another reality. Never forget..."

Nevermind, I just looked it up. Now I feel stupid, and thank you for alerting me to that. I've never played SC or KOTOR, as you can probably tell.

Dammit, I need my character information, Ceej!
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Supporter of Frog in SC2k4!

Happens to the best of us, don't worry.

And I'm renaming the Midgar Division to The Four Swordsman. Look at who the final four in that division are. And let's also not forget about the Kingdom Losers four pack, as well as The Other BangFang Triangle (Dante, Joe, Tails).
---
Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Slowflake, you are so over-hyping the Jill vs. Hayabusa match it's not even funny. That match is almost a no-brainer. Do yourself a favor and stop worrying about it.

I have never even thought about this match, but that's just me.

I know man. Seriously, discussing this match is a waste of time. If Jill somehow pulls a miracle out of her ass and actually wins it, we should just throw our hands up and say "them's the breaks". But I can't see any justification for putting her in my bracket.


BTW, wasn't the Guru Challenge Ngamer's? I mean, he did do all the work, after all. Where's he been anyway?
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Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

I'd like to know how that match is such a no-brainer myself. Jill Valentine and Master Chief were practically even in the extrapolated standings last year, and I cannot imagine a scenario in which Ryu H. is stronger than Master Chief.
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Married to smitelf on 5/21/04
Ulti pwned me so completely in the Sp2k4 contest that I won't be able to sit for a week. -smitelf

Jill got 40% on Squall, I don't think that match is a certainty for either one. Also, even though Aeris is above Squall, granted by a point or so, I think Squall would win in a direct match up.
---
If you work hard you can achieve great things in life...........and then you die. - from dilbert

Ulti used normal apostrophes? *blinks again* Nope, my eyes aren`t deciving me......
---
"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

I feel that Sora will be taking that Sweet Sixteen slot. Kingdom Hearts, despite the extroplated rankings, I feel is stronger than the Xbox. =P
---
Gordon Freeman is your only option. ~Slowflake

even though Aeris is above Squall, granted by a point or so, I think Squall would win in a direct match up.

I would think Aeris would recieve the FF SFF (try saying that 10 times fast) and beat Squall myself.

I feel that Sora will be taking that Sweet Sixteen slot. Kingdom Hearts, despite the extroplated rankings, I feel is stronger than the Xbox. =P

Games and Systems =/= Characters. Plus, Jill finished 11 ranks ahead of Sora in the 2003 extrapolated standings. The Ryu/Jill winner will take the 4 pack.
---
"Between gas leaks and electric lines someone could get seriously killed!" ~Miami Construction Guy

/agree with Ulti on Jill/Ryu. Exactly my thoughts, which is why I have Jill winning.
---
Hard work may not kill you, but why take chances?
Aeowyn is my Goddess - Heroic Tails here

HK-47 is WAY too much of a no-name to present a challenge to Sora. HK-47 wasn't even a required character, so even those who have played KotOR may not know who he is. Regardless of whether you like Sora or not, Kingdom Hearts has had good sales and has held a high level of popularity on this site. I don't doubt this one for a second.

Master Chief's position as an essential symbol of the XBox causes him to get a much larger portion of anti-XBox hate. Ryu H. won't have the immediate recognization as an XBox character, but more as a cool ninja guy from a great game. I think the massive decrease of anti-XBox votes will lead Ryu H. to victory against Jill, where Master Chief may have failed.
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Proud supporter of Kefka, Knuckles, Samus, Viewtiful Joe, and Zero for SC2k4!

Also why do most of us write off Liquid Snake?
---
Furious J is God.

I'd like to know how that match is such a no-brainer myself. Jill Valentine and Master Chief were practically even in the extrapolated standings last year, and I cannot imagine a scenario in which Ryu H. is stronger than Master Chief.

Perhaps I spoke too strongly when I called it almost a no brainer, but I think Ryu is probably stronger than Master Chief. Why wouldn't he be? He's got a lot more appeal, and is more famous. The only thing he lacks is the hardcore fanbase, but I don't think that matters much.
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Anyone who doesn`t look at a picture of an amphibian knight in awe needs to rethink their purpose in this mortal coil. --Ulti
SC2K4.com/frog

I'd like to know how that match is such a no-brainer myself. Jill Valentine and Master Chief were practically even in the extrapolated standings last year, and I cannot imagine a scenario in which Ryu H. is stronger than Master Chief.

Why in the world not? Master Chief is soley an Xbox character. The only people who are voting for MC are Xbox fans and or Halo fans. Anyone else really doesn't have any sort of appeal to vote for him, I know I don't. I might also add that he has had absolutely no other game outside of the Xbox (forgetting the PC incarnation) and we all know how Xbox fairs here at GameFAQs. Now, lets took a look at what genre our wonderful Chief is from that's right FPS. That genre is not held in high regard here at FAQs, so Hayabusa being stronger than Master Chief is something I have always expected since I saw the bracket. Hayabusa doesn't come from Xbox nor was he created solely on the system. He has had plenty of exposure throughout the course of his 16+ years in this industry. From NES games to DoA, and recently a very popular and highly rated Ninja Gaiden on the Xbox. He's also from a genre that isn't so hated in the action/adventure (the same as the Zelda franchise). So to be perfectly honest, I agreed 100% with it being called a "no-brainer". I haven't seen a reason to go with Jill at all, other than she's been in this contest before and she did well in 2002. Other than that I haven't seen anyone come up with a reason for her win. Oh and I can't forget the classic "anti-Xbox votes" which would be seriously dumbed down in comparison to Master Chief.
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Summer Contest 2004 Winner: Mega Man
http://www.angelfire.com/games5/heroicmario/Summer2004Winner.gif