Heh, I missed that too.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

Wait, even more stacked... Zero in with the S's. That's even worse than 2k2's West.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

oh, and Ganondorf vs. Link would be the final match in that division.

That`d be an awesome division final. =P
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

But I don`t believe Kefka or KOS-MOS could beat Luigi.
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

What exactly would it take to be a "threat" to Cloud, Sephiroth and Link. Cloud did destroy Sonic with over 65% of the vote.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

You're joking, right? Ganondorf wouldn't put up any sort of fight against Link for the division finals. SFF to the maxxx0rz, j0!
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Well, "great" as in Hero vs. Villain since we always see Ganon get owned by Link in every game it`d be nice to see it happen in the contest, heh.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

Come on... everyone and their brother wants to see Mario/Crono III, as these game-proxies of the match just do not create the same excitement. Also, let us begin the debating on top seeds. My impression for the #1 and #2 seeds: Cloud, Link, Mario and Sephiroth as the #1s, and Crono, MegaMan, Snake and Samus as the #2s. Your thoughts?
Contest: 59/64; never to sniff the top 50 again... =(

Well, there's nothing that say Cloud will hold onto the full power of the KHF over a year later. Seph got less of a boost from it, so it's reasonable to say even he would face less of a decline. Sonic isn't looking too good, either, and there is nothing to say that Magus, Zero, and Aeris can't beat him next time around. Zero and Aeris are unlikely, I'll give ya that, but Magus is not. I'd but my money on Magus over Sonic easily. That being said, anyone hald decent is a threat, it just takes amazing luck. There will deffinately be some movements, and I'll base my prediction on who faces who and not how good or bad they did against eachother 3 matches removed. I pray whole heartedly that Crono dones't face Mario. And that is all I can say. Oh wait, that and I hope Alucard makes Sweet 16 again. :)
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

"everyone and their brother wants to see Mario/Crono III"

I do not, good sir.

"My impression for the #1 and #2 seeds: Cloud, Link, Mario and Sephiroth as the #1s, and Crono, MegaMan, Snake and Samus as the #2s. Your thoughts?"

It's the only logical seeding.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

I`d be one to put Ganondorf over Sonic as well, I mean he was pretty much equal to Magus. =)

But to become a threat to Cloud, Link, and Sephiroth is definitely something to think about. I think some characters might get more percentage on them cracking 40% but I`m unsure on who or what could help a certain character actually give them a good run.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

There is one glaring problem with Cloud, Link, and Sephiroth being 1 seeds though.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

My impression for the #1 and #2 seeds: Cloud, Link, Mario and Sephiroth as the #1s, and Crono, MegaMan, Snake and Samus as the #2s. Your thoughts?

The only real problem I see is that Mario and Crono have different seeds as in a direct match they were 0.1% away from each other. But I don't think there is any real solution to that. Perhaps bump Megaman up to a 1st seed and drop Mario to a second seed? But that doesn't feel right to me either.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

I shouldn't have to remind you that before the contest no one thought Cloud could have beaten Link. He did, because soemthing we didn't expect happened. Now all this time we've been looking for something like KH to shake things up, but it could be something we all over looked or anythign completely unexpected that changes things again. It could also be the same again. We can't know until it happens.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

"There is one glaring problem with Cloud, Link, and Sephiroth being 1 seeds though."

It would be accurate? I mean, other than that I can't see Ceej having any problem with it.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Very true Chichiri, but what games have come out that could potentially have such an affect? I mean if you think about what games were pretty big that had apperances by one of the big character. Definitely possible that could happen though.


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Mario and Crono needing to be the same seed... my response is that making Mario the last 1 and Crono the first 2 wouldn't insult anyone, makes logical sense, and keeps their .1% in line. Not to mention getting them in the same division pretty much ensures Mario/Crono III, AKA the culmination of my being.
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Contest: 59/64; never to sniff the top 50 again... =(

http://www.freewebs.com/slowflake/spc2k4.xls

I'm not sure if anyone else noticed, so I'll say it here. With the stats up, we have definitive proof that the average braketmaker on the SC2k4 board will do much better than the average bracketmaker in overall.

Apparently, all that bracket discussion does payoff. Who'd have thunk it?
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Proud warrior of THE LUCA BLIGHT ARMY

The problem is that unless someone manages to catch up to one of them the Final Four would be: Cloud, Link, Sephiroth, and my guess would be Mario.

Either way you look at that its kind of... dull.

I`d imagine one of those three would be put in the same division as one of the other two, sure it may not be the most accurate thing around but they were completely accurate last year. =P
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

Very true Chichiri, but what games have come out that could potentially have such an affect? I mean if you think about what games were pretty big that had apperances by one of the big character.

Everyone forgot about Twin Snakes already? >>

Well, okay it's a bit of a long shot considering how MGS did against FFT. But it could happen ^^;

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The last thing I see in my lifetime is that fixed smile crawling out of the television, as my brain explodes into tiny, sobbing pieces.
-Videogame Recaps

I`d imagine one of those three would be put in the same division as one of the other two, sure it may not be the most accurate thing around but they were completely accurate last year. =P

I would not be shocked if that happened, & if it did, I say the other #1 seed should go to either Crono or Megaman, the only other Final Four members not up for that seeding.

I shouldn't have to remind you that before the contest no one thought Cloud could have beaten Link. He did, because soemthing we didn't expect happened. Now all this time we've been looking for something like KH to shake things up, but it could be something we all over looked or anythign completely unexpected that changes things again. It could also be the same again. We can't know until it happens.

I think the same. A lot of time will probably be spent trying to figure out what the "next KHF" is, and maybe some people will nail it correctly. Or maybe it'll be something that blind sides most of us. Or, maybe there will be no huge new factor.

Myself, I'd go with the "KHF-factor-impact-diminishing" thing; I think Link will be stronger than Cloud in 2K4, though I'm far from certain about that.

About the format though, mostly I'm just hoping Ceej doesn't do something totally whack. Like making 3-way matches and such. That would be new, and interesting, but very unfair. I mean, in a match of Cloud vs. Sephiroth vs. Sonic, or Link vs. Mario vs. Snake, Sonic and Snake would probably win. That just ain't right.

I'm afraid he is going to have some quirky divisional format that leads to very predictable late-round match-ups and one or two majorly overpowered divisions. He has strongly implied some "twists", and any added complications to the system will case imbalance. Let's hope it's not too bad.

I think a balanced, normal, quirk-free system would be the most fun, rather than some contrived attempt at making things more fun by "spicing them up" or some such thing.
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smitelf is a far better forecaster of this contest than I could ever hope to be.
I am in awe of her PWNage.

How much of an affect do you think Advent Childern will have? If it bombs, do you think it will hurt Cloud, Sephiroth and Aeris or will the fans pretend it never existed and continue to favour Cloud and Sephiroth.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

Myself, I'd go with the "KHF-factor-impact-diminishing" thing; I think Link will be stronger than Cloud in 2K4,

That`s exactly what I`m thinking.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

No, god dammit, NO! Sephiroth WILL NOT be shafter of his deserved 1 seed TWICE! If it happens, someone will pay. He earned that spot, and he damn well better get it.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

You gentlemen really think Kingdom Hearts had that big of an impact on character stature? I mean, look at the giant egg it laid in this contest... not even half the bracketmakers thought it could beat Soul Calibur! While not a terrible game by any means, on an RPG-site that might as well be named "SquareEnix," that should never happen.

Contest: 59/64; never to sniff the top 50 again... =(

I think Advent Children could have a significant impact (even though most that would buy it would already be Final Fantasy VII fans), but that won't be out nearly in time.

Chain of Memories is another possibility, since that would make the Nintendo fanbase more amenable to Square's most popular character, which at this site might mean total invincibility. But that won't come out for a while either.

I think that Chain of Memories would have more impact that Twin Snakes though, since I'm assuming Chain of Memories would sell a LOT more than Twin Snakes did.

Of course, these could just be more over-hyped red herrings that amount to nothing.
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smitelf is a far better forecaster of this contest than I could ever hope to be.
I am in awe of her PWNage.

You gentlemen really think Kingdom Hearts had that big of an impact on character stature?

Oh noes!! Please, resist the temptation people. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
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smitelf is a far better forecaster of this contest than I could ever hope to be.
I am in awe of her PWNage.

About the format though, mostly I'm just hoping Ceej doesn't do something totally whack.

Other than the format used for sc2k2 and sc2k3, what format could he use that isn't wacked? I doubt CjayC will put in as much thought as we have into the format and we still have difficulty coming up with a format that doesn't have overpowered divisions.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

Other than the format used for sc2k2 and sc2k3, what format could he use that isn't wacked? I doubt CjayC will put in as much thought as we have into the format and we still have difficulty coming up with a format that doesn't have overpowered divisions.

I meant format in terms of something like changing the one-on-one nature of the contest, rather than divisional alignment. Though like I said, I'm all in favor of the same type of divisional alignment, because any changes will lead to ****ed up matches and major imbalance. Too bad we know he's going to do something.
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smitelf is a far better forecaster of this contest than I could ever hope to be.
I am in awe of her PWNage.

I never found out how much MGS: TTS sold, anyone have a rough estimate of how many copies it sold?
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

You know, what if the 'twist' or 'quirk' was actually a World Cup style. In this format, the 4-packs would participate in a round-robin where only the best character makes it out, thus creating our Sweet 16. I don't think this one would be as bad as some other potential ones.

How much of an affect do you think Advent Childern will have? If it bombs, do you think it will hurt Cloud, Sephiroth and Aeris or will the fans pretend it never existed and continue to favour Cloud and Sephiroth.

Personally, I can't see AC having any meaningful impact. Unlike KH, FF:AC is made specifically for FF VII fans. I find it unlikely that if it bombs (as is expected by those of us who are cynical), people will suddenly hate Cloud. On the flip side, I can't see it doing much recruiting for more fans.

Very true Chichiri, but what games have come out that could potentially have such an affect? I mean if you think about what games were pretty big that had apperances by one of the big character.

You mean since the last contest? Um... Twin Snakes, Superstar Saga, Zero Mission, Sonic Heroes, the hype for KH:CoM and KH2, Link's trailer, Chrono Brake...


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tnote, that's why it wasn't expected, and that's why it's still anybodies game. For all we know Sonic Heroes was good enough to renew the faith of Sonic fans *scoff* or Twin Snkes exposed Snake to just enough new peopel to make the difference. Maybe if CT wins it's next match some people will get interested in playing it to see how in god's name it could beat a great game like SMW. Maybe nothing will happen and 2k4 will be a 2k3 repeat, or maybe KH will wear off. No one knows, but it's such touchy matter that even the smallest of things can make a difference. I believe SSB kept Samus fandom alive in a very long gap between games. It may be true, and SSB would seem like such a minor thing. I don't attribute all of Cloud's "growth" to KH, but I can deffinitely recognize it made a noticable difference.

TRE - that's the idea, stick with what works.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Some of those games are notable, others like Sonic Heroes I wouldn`t say are considering the majority of disliking that game gets. And Chrono Brake? =P
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

WC?... that's actually a damn fine idea!
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

You must admit HM (and I will admit it too, since I'm guilty), much of the SH hate isn't from new haters... it's the same people who hated SA1 and 2. Many of us are just ashamed for our fallen friend, Sonic the Hedgehog.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Now, despite what some think, I believe that LoZ trailer could definitely give Link at least a minor boost and at the level he`s at it only pushes him further away, heh.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

I don't know if a trailer will do it, but who knows. I won't bet on a trailer, but I wouldn't have bet on KH making Cloud the "unstobable force" of 2k3.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

That`s true Chichiri. I could see it helping out Shadow rather than helping out Sonic but it`d be pretty funny to see that game - one I would think would be totally unexpected - help out Sonic.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

You know, what if the 'twist' or 'quirk' was actually a World Cup style. In this format, the 4-packs would participate in a round-robin where only the best character makes it out, thus creating our Sweet 16. I don't think this one would be as bad as some other potential ones.

Each of the 4-packs would require 6 matches to complete the round-robin. That's 96 matches. Then another 15 the crown the champion. That's 111 matches almost 4 months if you have 1 per day. More than 1 match a day doesn't work as the one with the worse positioning will take a serious hit in the vote total.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

If Mario struggled to beat Cloud on the very day that Super Mario Sunshine was released, and Link lost to Cloud at a time when Soul Calibur II was the big game on the site, I doubt a trailer is going to make that much of an impact.
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Spring Contest 2004: 56/64
Today: (1)Super Mario Brothers 3 over (4)Final Fantasy

"Each of the 4-packs would require 6 matches to complete the round-robin."

Or... 3 matches. *shrugs*

Oh wait, guess what, that means 63 matches again, doesn't it? Sound fair to me.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Who Cares?:
You know, what if the 'twist' or 'quirk' was actually a World Cup style. In this format, the 4-packs would participate in a round-robin where only the best character makes it out, thus creating our Sweet 16. I don't think this one would be as bad as some other potential ones

That'd be sweet actually. But then what would you do about people with the same record, which you'd get a lot of (though the strongest character in each 4-pack would almost certainly go 4-0, since things are transitive for the most part)? And how would you get 63 matches total? Would you do each round as round robin with the 4-pack winners again? It would be fair, but very complex.

DomaDragoon:
Personally, I can't see AC having any meaningful impact. Unlike KH, FF:AC is made specifically for FF VII fans. I find it unlikely that if it bombs (as is expected by those of us who are cynical), people will suddenly hate Cloud. On the flip side, I can't see it doing much recruiting for more fans.

Thing is, it's a DVD movie. Which means it might expand Final Fantasy VII characters' appeal to those who've never played the game. Or, since we've never seen non-gaming stuff have impact, it might do nothing at all.
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smitelf is a far better forecaster of this contest than I could ever hope to be.
I am in awe of her PWNage.

Personally, I think Link had reached his full potential, contest-wise, and that he won't increase in strength anymore. Like Mario, more or less everyone recognizes Link and already has some sort of opinion of him.

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The last thing I see in my lifetime is that fixed smile crawling out of the television, as my brain explodes into tiny, sobbing pieces.
-Videogame Recaps

But leonhart, you forget, there is a difference between during the contest and before the contest. The trailer is before the contest, those two games you mentioned were during the contest. These things take time to settle in.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

I would`ve never imagined SCII giving Link all that much help in the first place. Now, Super Mario Sunshine is different I was kind of shocked Mario barely won on the day his own game was released. =\

Then again, I said minor and when your so high like that even a little boost can help when it comes to facing someone on your own level like Cloud and Sephiroth.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

For Heroic Mario

US Sales Data(up to Apr. 11, 2004)
--------------------------------------------
Metal Gear: Twin Snakes - > 122,435

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Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest

Personally, I think Link had reached his full potential, contest-wise, and that he won't increase in strength anymore. Like Mario, more or less everyone recognizes Link and already has some sort of opinion of him.

Well, I can see people`s opinions changing on Link due to the new way the series is going. Just like some people were turned off due to the cel-shading. Its pretty set that Link and Mario aren`t going to get introduced to anyone new but having someone change on whether or not they like that character is something I could potentially see happening.
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Dodongo Dislikes Smoke - Old Man; The Legend of Zelda

Thing is, it's a DVD movie. Which means it might expand Final Fantasy VII characters' appeal to those who've never played the game. Or, since we've never seen non-gaming stuff have impact, it might do nothing at all.

Ah, but who would buy a DVD movie? That's right, the fans of the franchise. The average movie-goer would just pass over it, unless if it's heavily marketed.

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The last thing I see in my lifetime is that fixed smile crawling out of the television, as my brain explodes into tiny, sobbing pieces.
-Videogame Recaps