*** COMPARISONS GAME - Match #44 - (7) SUPER MARIO 64 vs. (2) LEGEND OF ZELDA: OCARINA OF TIME ***

Sales

SM64 is the 6th best-selling game of all time (counting SMB1 and Tetris!) with 11 million copies sold, and while OoT isn't in the top 20, it's really close from what I hear. Still, the only non-Mario game that sold more than SM64 is Tetris, and it came bundled with the Game Boy anyway.

- Advantage SM64

Franchises

Easy. Zelda always has, and always will, be favored over Mario here.

- Advantage OOT.

GameFAQs Status

Number of FAQs: OoT
Number of reviews: OoT
Average review score: SM64
Board activity: OoT

As I said in the match against Fallout 2, OoT seems to be clearly underwhelming as far as the review scores go... giving more credibility to LttP as a championship contender in that aspect. But for the rest, no surprise.

- Advantage OOT.

Board Odds Project

PICKS (out of 102)
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 101
Super Mario 64 - 1

POINT VALUE
3. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 2280
24. Super Mario 64 - 106

One would expect the accuracy of the BOP to go down as we progress... but not here. I think it depicts Mario's situation well - a miracle would not be enough.

- Advantage OOT.

Previous Rounds

Okay, so SM64 beat some random Saturn game (I know, it's THE Saturn game, buy hey, all Sature games are random, it's just that some are less random than others). Big deal. Meanwhile, OoT beats a decently known PC shooter by a more impressive margin. Even if it's a PC shooter, I think you know where I'm going...

- Advantage OOT.

Summer Contests / Polls of the Day

Link beat Mario for favorite Nintendo character. Zelda beat Mario for favorite Nintendo series. And unlike OoT, SM64 isn't even the favorite in its series. You do the math.

- Advantage OOT.

Intangibles

Let's face it. For every person that was looking for Luigi, there was one person that was looking for the Triforce. And *gasp* these people still exist!

Zelda's looking totally dominant right now. It got totally overwhelming scores that only SMB3 and FF7 could match so far. After LttP tripled Super Metroid - knowing how the Link/Samus match went down last year - I'm scared to make a prediction. I'll give that category to OoT, if only for the momentum factor. And if SFF strikes, I doubt it'll be to do Mario good.

- Advantage OOT.

Conclusion: I wasted countless days of my life on SM64... yet I'm still going to vote for OoT. It just wowed me so much more. If many people think the same, we could be looking at a complete killing. On the other hand, if SM64 does as well as Mario did against Link, then it will be mission accomplished for SM64. Plus, it would relaunch the SMB3/LoZ match hype in a big way.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

Damn, first FFT lets me down, and now SotN...

...I sure hope SSBM loses to Vice City, because that'll be another two points lost if it doesn't.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

OoT beats a decently known PC shooter by a more impressive margin

Fallout 2 is an RPG...
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Um, Vincent doesn't happen to be a secret unlockable character in Goldeneye, does he? I was counting of the fact that only FF VII can beat Alucard. In fact, I had FF VII switching sections just to beat SotN in Round 3.

And I'm just sad that hardly anyone will bother to check how close MGS vs. FFT was later on. They'll just assume it was a slaughter, and that's not fair to FFT.
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Smart Ask! National Champion (2003)
www.rpgdl.com

DOH! Knew I was making a mistake, just couldn't put the finger on it.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

Here's a description of the last three hours as best as I can remember it. Hopefully someone will correct anything I get wrong. All times are in Pacific.

At 9:00pm, MGS was leading by 73 votes. Compared to just about any other match, this gap was basicly nothing, but FFT just couldn't manage to close it. FFT made several gains, but MGS always countered. This held until 9:45pm. MGS had kept the lead for just over 90 minutes when FFT started to make a move. The 100 vote gap was dismantled in just over 45 minutes. At 10:26pm FFT regained the lead. At 10:41pm FFT remains in the lead. Slowflake decides to take things into his own hands and calls FFT the winner of the match. Not even FFT can stand up against The Slowflake Factor, just 4 minutes later MGS regains the lead. The two games spend the next few minutes fighting for control. It's 10:55pm, neither game is able to hold a lead for more than a minute or two. Finally at 10:58pm, MGS takes the lead again and is able to hold it for a while. By 11:05pm, the game once again are fighting for control. At 11:09pm, MGS takes off once again reaching a lead of 29. FFT fights back yet again and takes the lead back at 11:17pm. FFT can't hold the lead for long and MGS takes it back 6 minutes later at 11:23pm. With half an hour to go, MGS continued to hold onto the lead. At 11:37pm, MGS seems to do the impossible taking a lead of over 50 votes. This was the biggest lead in over two hours. It took MGS 10 minutes to make this lead, FFT had 20 minutes to break it. MGS struggled to maintain its lead while FFT slowly chipped away at it. MGS can't do it. Time is now 11:50pm. 10 minutes left. Tie game. Both games are going all out, the lead changes every few seconds. It looks like this match will be going right down to the wire, and people all over the boards are calling this match the closest match ever. Suddenly with 8 minutes left, MGS once again does what was thought to be impossible. In under 30 seconds pulling votes out of nowhere, it increases its lead from a mere 5 votes to a demanding 30. In any other match this would be nothing, but with 7 minutes left ever vote counted. The lead increases to 40, many people call foul play over the sudden spike in votes. FFT makes one final attempt at a comeback, but its not enough. Match ends 40330-40292 MGS. Vote gap of 38, just 4 greater than Samus vs Sonic 2k2.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

Well... last night... that was rough. I came out on top, bracketwise, and as a fan of FFT I wasn't diappointed. The final results worked up real well for me. But today... I wish to cry bloody tears. This is saddening. Well, tomorrow would be a damn good time for stats, Ceej, cause I'll bet the leaderboard has had a big mix up.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Thanks TRE, from someone on the east coast who just can't stay up until 3AM on a Sunday night.
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 51/52, Next Winner: Goldeneye

You think I should call Goldeneye the winner, just for kicks? My Prophet and Oracle picks are a bit on the low side... ;)

I'll make the FFT/MGS graphs after dinner.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

I take dibs on saying "CJayC promised stats this week" in this topic.

Of course, it'll probably be when I'm working or sleeping. Darn. Speaking of which, I'm off to work in a few minutes.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

Curses, I was just going to bump this after I read that. I can hardly wait to see how fast this topic starts to fly after we actually get some hard statistics to talk about.
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Mega Man in the Summer Contest '04? You better believe it!

Yeah, can't wait to compare these numbers to the BOP.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

Contest stats?

CONTEST STATS???

COnTesT STaaaatS?!?!?!?

WAHAHAHAHAHA...first a new monitor for my computer (text...so...crisp...) and then the announcement that we actually WILL get stats! Oooh, this is a good day.
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 51/52, Next Winner: Goldeneye

I was refreshing the heavens out of that poll early on, and it was dead even after that early 14-5 advantage.

Yeah, just like how LoZ had only 62.5% against Donkey Kong at the beginning of that poll. Wow, and I didn't know the poll had heaven inside it. :P

Hm, and using the relative strengths in MGS's 4-pack, Resident Evil would only beat Dance Dance Revolution 60/40. o_O I hope (HOPE, not THINK) this is a sign that Final Fantasy games underperform against weak opponents.

Since CJayC is going to put the stats in soon, I will make my predictions of what the prediction percentages will be (again, though these are new estimates). These were quickly done, so don't blame me for doing a so-so job. :P

Super Mario Bros. 3 - 94%
Metroid - 61%
Contra - 57%
Final Fantasy - 96%
Donkey Kong - 63%
Legend of Zelda - 99%
Pong - 71%
Tetris - 89%
Chrono Trigger - 88%
Super Mario RPG - 57%
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 - 84%
Super Mario World - 89%
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - 97%
Super Metroid - 83%
Doom - 60%
Final Fantasy VI - 82%
Final Fantasy VII - 97%
Xenogears - 45%
Final Fantasy Tactics - 79%
Metal Gear Solid - 77%
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - 41%
Goldeneye 007 - 90%
Super Mario 64 - 95%
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 89%
Starcraft - 36%
Kingdom Hearts - 54%
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker - 91%
Metroid Prime vs. Half-Life - 65%
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance - 70%
Final Fantasy X - 94%
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City - 64%
Super Smash Bros. Melee - 61%

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

Hey, I have a question for all of you...

What do you think Super Mario World's chances are of being able to upset Chrono Trigger next round?

I smell another Mario vs. Crono, but that's just me.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

What do you think Super Mario World's chances are of being able to upset Chrono Trigger next round?

I think they are very good and it could very well happen. I`m pulling for SMW to make that upset.

Oh, and I`m looking forward to tonight`s match of OoT vs. SM64. =P
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

here's hoping lttp vs. ff6 has similar, but more controversial results...

Heh, I hope LttP lays waste to FFVI to be honest.
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

What do you think Super Mario World's chances are of being able to upset Chrono Trigger next round?

i say the chances are good...but not great.
i still see chrono trigger meeting smb3 in the semifinals, in fact.

that is where we'll see mario vs. crono again, i believe.
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signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

Heh, I hope LttP lays waste to FFVI to be honest.

...at this point i believe that goes without saying, heroic mario.
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signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

Meh, CT will win, I don't even see why it's an issue -- though I will, myself, be pulling for Super Mario World, the best Mario game ever.
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 51/52, Next Winner: Goldeneye

Anyone notice how rapidly Goldeneye is increasing it's lead against Castlevania: SotN? Just the same as Perfect Dark, so it's not surprising...

After FFT's impressive performance compared to what it did in Round 1, I say SMW's chances have gotten smaller.

Ah, yes, and I need to predict for Round 2:

Super Mario Bros . 3 - 77%
Final Fantasy - 75%
The Legend of Zelda - 83%
Tetris - 68%
Chrono Trigger - 69%
Super Mario World - 72%
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - 70%
Final Fantasy VI - 66%
Final Fantasy VII - 81%
Metal Gear Solid - 57%
Goldeneye - 44%
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - 71%
Kingdom Hearts* - 32%
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker* - 46%
Final Fantasy X - 84%
Super Smash Bros. Melee* - 38%

Wow, the numbers are so high (and a little too constant, but oh, well). Well, I'm betting the scores ARE a lot higher in this contest, anway...

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

So basically Metal Gear Solid managed random jumps in votes every time FFT pushed the match into a tie? Yeah, that would be the ending of Samus/Sonic all over again, just in reverse. Thanks, TRE =)
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I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

Oh and Slowflake, I love you and all, but stop calling matches until a winner is guaranteed!! Damn, man =(
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I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

Lol.
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

those "guarantees" of his singlehandedly cost fft the victory.

you have a superior gift, slowflake.
...please use it more wisely in the future.
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signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

tag

Yes!!!!! GO MGS!!!!

(With 10 mintues left) They are tied! This one is going down to the WIRE!!!

(With 8 minutes left) What's this?! MGS does did a stunning punch and goes up by 30!! The MGS crowd is going wild!!!

(At 12:00) FFT tries to fight back with one stunning punch for the win..- NO GOOD! IT"S OVER!! MGS HAS PULLEST OFF THE BIGGEST VICTORY EVER!!!!! BY ONLY 38 VOTES, THE FIRST FINAL FANTASY GAME FALLS!! THIS MATCH WILL LIVE IN HISTORY EVER!!!! XD

MGS! MGS! M....G....S!!!!!!

YES!!! And Contest Stats! What a great weekend :-)
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Welcome to SpC2k4, where you suck if you presume someone else's opinions.- Tai.

THIS MATCH WILL LIVE IN HISTORY EVER!!!! XD

...actually, no it won't.
that's just my problem.
lots of people have already stopped discussing it...because the favorite won.

now, if mgs had won by, say, one vote...that would be interesting...
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signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.

Heh, I hope LttP lays waste to FFVI to be honest.

and i am hoping that FFVI gives LTTP a beating into the ground. =P

sadly, i know that won't happen, but i will settle for a nail-biting FF6 victory.

today's match doesn't surprise me. i did pick Castlevania over goldeneye, but they were both great games. my bracket is a little sad now, though.

tomorrow's match, however, will make me sad. Super Mario 64 was one of the most innovative, imaginative, fun games ever made. it took Mario and video games in general into the mainstream of Three Dimensions. OOT was a good game, but it didn't feel like a great new Zelda game. it felt like Super Mario 64 with a targeting system. i dunno, maybe i'm alone on this one, but i will be very disheartened when OOT whomps Mario 64. hopefully Mario keeps it relatively close. so far, Mario's games have done much better than Mario as a character, so maybe Mario will put up a better fight against Link this time than his S2K2 beating.

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Current Score: 49/52 (through FFT vs. MGS)
cyko's 256 Game Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14132035

I won`t settle for either I say! LttP to the finals! >>

=P
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

Match #42 Review:

Well, I really wish that FFT had won, because that would've caused a lot more chaos on the boards, and would've given me 2 more points.

The big worry about this match is that it makes SSBM look bad. Real bad. If MGS is stronger than MGS2, as is the general consensus, and SSBM only got 54% on the weaker one...ouch. Vice City performed as expected, and KOTOR was by no means a pushover opponent. After all, it has the Star Wars name...if SSBM loses its match with VC this round, though, it'll give me 2 more points in my bracket. Let's pull for the upset!

Match #44 Preview:

Obvious enough.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I said previously I'd blame the match pic for the loss, and I still do. 38 votes are enough to be swayed by a match picture, and if Ramza had a clearer better picture, he could've won.

No offense, but I don`t think the match pic had anything to do with it. You`d be better off blaming the Incredible Hulk ad, to be honest.
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I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

It's not like that was the best picture of Snake, to be fair.

The big worry about this match is that it makes SSBM look bad. Real bad.

Well, it's either an indication of the strength of the Final Fantasy name or the weakness of SSBM. I hope it's the former because I have Melee going all the way to the Final Four.
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Spring Contest 2004: 48/52
Today: (3)Goldeneye over (11)Symphony of the Night

So I'm just curious, how are all the gurus here doing? You guys have been doing a great job with the analyses, keep up the good work. A lot of the same stuff went through my mind when making my brackets, except I haven't played a good number of the games (but have heard a lot of hearsay from schoolmates).
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Contest status: 53/54 points through Castlevania: SotN vs. Goldeneye. Currently anticipating: Starcraft vs. Kingdom Hearts.

Congrats on the Oracle Challenge creative, you managed to predict high despite the FFT match - I predicted 58.20% - so looks like we both should get a good deal of points. =P Though I think you might have the number one pick.
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

I maintain that MGS2, FFT, Metal Gear Solid, and SSBM are all strong games. To say that Metal Gear Solid`s near-loss to FFT proves an SSBM weakness is a little unfair.

But personally, I don`t care once the stats are up. My goal for two years has been to see myself on the leaderboard for one day. That`s it. And if Kingdom Hearts downs Starcraft, my dream could come true once the stats are up. At that point, I`ll honestly stop caring about my bracket. Just as long as general chaos resumes around here, I`ll be happy =)
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I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

Heroic Mario, how do you think LTTP would do against SMB3 in an eventual semi-final match?

I think the winner of this match is probably going to win it all, as 8-16 generation games seems to be more powerful than the new ones so far.

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"How long will he keep on fighting? How long will his pain last? Maybe only the X-buster on his hand knows for sure...."

actually, no it won't.
that's just my problem.
lots of people have already stopped discussing it...because the favorite won.

now, if mgs had won by, say, one vote...that would be interesting...

And that's who?

By seed, I think that would be MGS. I'm surprised seeds matter anymore. O_o'

But on this site filled with Square Fanboys, FFT could have easily won.
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Welcome to SpC2k4, where you suck if you presume someone else's opinions.- Tai.

Heroic Mario, how do you think LTTP would do against SMB3 in an eventual semi-final match?

I actually think there are only two games in this contest that would beat LttP, they are OoT and FFVII. I`m 100% sure that LttP will be in the finals and could possibly nudge out a win, though unlikely.
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

Um, and if Starcraft, Metroid Prime, and/or GTA: VC win, I would guess the prediction percentages would be...

Starcraft* - 22%
Metroid Prime* - 36% (now I realize my Zelda: WW percentage is too high!)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City* - 31%

The thought of a 16-seed winning rounds...o_O

Woah, 60%...very impressive. Kinda.

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"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."

No ****ing way. FFT/MGS is one for the ages, regardless of who won. Waaaaaah, you lost two points. Big deal. The first Mario/Crono is still remembered, even if the favorite won, right?

I've been saying this for two months and a half now, anyone who thinks LttP won't kill FF6 is in denial. I can't wait to see that match begin to see the hype of that Crono/Dante clone get killed. Hey, I predicted Zero/Scorpion as the Crono/Dante last year, and guess what happened?

My personal stance on yesterday's match is that it highlights FFT's strength rather than MGS' or SSBM's weakness. It's closer to the numbered series than we thought.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

anyone who thinks LttP won't kill FF6 is in denial

Correct! =P
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Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
You are doing well, lad. But can you break through this secret technique of Darkness?

My goal for two years has been to see myself on the leaderboard for one day. That`s it.

I got on last year for a day or two. T'was cool but I wasn't as into this last year as I am this year so I wasn't jumping for joy or anything.
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 51/52, Next Winner: Goldeneye

I got to 10th before Link/Cloud!

Too bad the stats are coming so late, I'd have like to see how much I came back since my last loss thanks to Starcraft... and Starcraft might hand me my next one if it wins as well, before the stats go up.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 047/052 --- Matches: 37/42 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Goldeneye

I am among those who would very much like to see the stats come up *before* Starcraft vs. Kingdom Hearts. That's going to break a hell of a lot of brackets.
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 51/52, Next Winner: Goldeneye

Cjay is probably specifically waiting until after SC vs. KH just so that it'll break a lot of brackets and make it harder to be in the top 50 or however many.
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Contest status: 53/54 points through Castlevania: SotN vs. Goldeneye. Currently anticipating: Starcraft vs. Kingdom Hearts.

No ****ing way. FFT/MGS is one for the ages, regardless of who won. Waaaaaah, you lost two points. Big deal. The first Mario/Crono is still remembered, even if the favorite won, right?

Mario vs Crono 2k2 had other things going for it. It was the first and only match so far to have cheated votes removed. Also both Mario and Crono are high level competitors. At that time either one seemed to have a shot to win the whole contest. Finally Mario vs Crono 2k2 had a perhaps even more controversial sequel.

FFT vs MGS seems to be a lesser version of Samus vs Sonic. The favorite manages to win in the end. The vote gap is just off being the smallest. People care less about MGS and FFT than Samus and Sonic. Its worth 2 points instead of 4. It took place in the less popular Spring Contest rather than the Summer Contest. When questions are asked about the closest match ever, people will still think Samus vs Sonic 2k2, not MGS vs FFT sp2k4.
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''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''