Spring 2004 Contest
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Contest Stats & Discussion - Part 16
From: JaKyL25
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:40:49 PM | Message Detail
I would imagine that LttP got a decent (though probably not truly
significant) boost based on the fact that it was recently rereleased on
GBA, thus allowing all the kiddies too young to own an SNES an
opportunity to play it. Super Metroid, sadly, has not had a GBA remake
yet.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:43:15 PM | Message Detail
Now, now JaKyL, be careful what you say... whne I said almost the exact
same thing and about the 47 some % of GameFAQs users who weren't old
enough to play SM when it was new people started jumping all over my
ass. You shouldn't try to use facts like "this game got a rerelease
while this older one hasn't" to try to prove a point around here.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Slowflake
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:45:12 PM | Message Detail
It can help, I know. There's just no way to know the extent of it. I
really think a big majority of the votes comes from the original
release in these cases.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
From: Haste2
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:47:11 PM | Message Detail
Hm...I don't think Super Metroid is that weak. It got 83% against
PSIV...that game couldn't possibly be THAT weak...so it looks really
impressive on LttP's part. I still say LttP is unstoppable in this
division. Gunstar Heroes beating PSIV? Nah. I believe that Gunstar
Heroes, being blown away more, meant that other factors came into play,
almost always going in favor of the loser. I'd say the biggest thing is
pity/joke jokes. They'll be more magnified here, and thus Gunstar
Heroes looks a little better than it really should. Speaking of pity
votes, I'm betting The Simpsons got LOADS of those. I'm sure there were
a lot of fans of the show who never heard of the game, and decided to
vote for it just for the heck of it. The math shows that the Simpsons
would beat Shining Force with 70%, but I think Shining Force would get
fairly close to winning.
Now, this is off the subject a bit, but there's another theory, I have, dealing with obscurity of popular games/characters/whatever. Okay, if it's popular, it's not really THAT obscure, but there are some popular games that many are not very familiar with. Zelda: LttP will be recognized by just about ANY gamer, while many non-RPGers will never have heard of Chrono Trigger. (heck, my brother-in-law is big on video games, and he's never heard of it) What could this mean in terms of poll results? Well, notice this:
Theoretically, Sonic should've beaten Scorpion with 71% of the vote. Now, Zero got 63% against Scorpion, while Sonic only got 52% against Zero. Sonic appeared to be 5% short. That means Scorpion would get an expected. Notice how Scorpion appeared to be stronger in the 2003 recursive rankings than in that of 2002, as well. I'd expect that Zero lost a few votes more than he "should have" when against Scorpion. Looking back at it, I'm quite surprised that some people thought Zero would beat Sonic, when Sonic was expected to beat Zero with about 62% (bah, rough estimate), judging by previous results, and that's not even counting the fact that Sonic overperformed against Ken, judging by the previous year!
Okay, maybe the differences didn't seem like much, but consider this: Strider barely edged out Raziel with 53%...Strider got 24% against Link, while Raziel got 18% against Sephiroth the next year. Strider more obscure, far more obscure, than Raziel. So basically, I believe the reason Raziel lost worse than Strider is because Strider is actually a lot more popular than Raziel when you factor out obscurity. I know they're weak, so that could be the reason of the differences, but they're not the weakest of fodder.
*expects no response to anything in this post* :( It took a lot of time...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Now, this is off the subject a bit, but there's another theory, I have, dealing with obscurity of popular games/characters/whatever. Okay, if it's popular, it's not really THAT obscure, but there are some popular games that many are not very familiar with. Zelda: LttP will be recognized by just about ANY gamer, while many non-RPGers will never have heard of Chrono Trigger. (heck, my brother-in-law is big on video games, and he's never heard of it) What could this mean in terms of poll results? Well, notice this:
Theoretically, Sonic should've beaten Scorpion with 71% of the vote. Now, Zero got 63% against Scorpion, while Sonic only got 52% against Zero. Sonic appeared to be 5% short. That means Scorpion would get an expected. Notice how Scorpion appeared to be stronger in the 2003 recursive rankings than in that of 2002, as well. I'd expect that Zero lost a few votes more than he "should have" when against Scorpion. Looking back at it, I'm quite surprised that some people thought Zero would beat Sonic, when Sonic was expected to beat Zero with about 62% (bah, rough estimate), judging by previous results, and that's not even counting the fact that Sonic overperformed against Ken, judging by the previous year!
Okay, maybe the differences didn't seem like much, but consider this: Strider barely edged out Raziel with 53%...Strider got 24% against Link, while Raziel got 18% against Sephiroth the next year. Strider more obscure, far more obscure, than Raziel. So basically, I believe the reason Raziel lost worse than Strider is because Strider is actually a lot more popular than Raziel when you factor out obscurity. I know they're weak, so that could be the reason of the differences, but they're not the weakest of fodder.
*expects no response to anything in this post* :( It took a lot of time...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: JaKyL25
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:50:56 PM | Message Detail
Strider more obscure than Raziel? Wow, I'm out of touch.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:51:14 PM | Message Detail
Well, a 13% difference in expected results isn't the majority, now is
it? That rerelease may be what sets LttP apart from SM in a Link vs.
Samus comparison. It may mean little to the characters, but when
judging the games themselves a rerelease may make the game that much
more representative of the character. You know what else has been
rereleased to the public? LoZ. The original Donkey Kong hasn't seen a
rerelease since maybe when the GBC was new. But LoZ is on the GC bonus
disc meaning new people may have played it. Guess what else has been
rereleased. Mario 3. Yep, it went up against the Original Metroid which
was basically rereleased recently, but as the past has shown the
rerelease was too recently to help Metroid. A release, as we all know,
needs more time to work its magic than that. Imagine if FF6 had seen a
more recent rerelease, like if it had hit the GBA last fall. Whooboy!
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: JaKyL25
| Posted: 5/15/2004 6:55:20 PM | Message Detail
Also, since Metroid: Zero Mission was a complete remake (as you aluded
to) instead of just a reissue, some might not automatically realize
that it equates to original Metroid. Thus, any gain for Metroid from
the Zero Mission remake would probably be pretty negligible.
And I have to imagine that most of the people hardcore enough to unlock original Metroid with the Prime/Fusion thing and then play it were people that have already played it anyway.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
And I have to imagine that most of the people hardcore enough to unlock original Metroid with the Prime/Fusion thing and then play it were people that have already played it anyway.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:03:22 PM | Message Detail
"It got 83% against PSIV...that game couldn't possibly be THAT weak..."
Ever seen a Phantasy Star character MENTIONED around SC nomination time, let alone get in? PS may be an RPG, but it doesn't come from an especially good background (the original PS would never have made it into this contest under a normal nomination system) and it can't ride on the strength of PSO which is, frankly, rather lacking.
"Speaking of pity votes, I'm betting The Simpsons got LOADS of those."
I doubt that, it's actually a fun game even though TMNT is more deserving of the spot.
"Zelda: LttP will be recognized by just about ANY gamer, while many non-RPGers will never have heard of Chrono Trigger."
This is still GameFAQs, if you've been here more than a year you've hears of Chrono Trigger.
"Theoretically, Sonic should've beaten Scorpion with 71% of the vote."
Scorpion could have easily underperformed in 2k2 due to bad seeding. His 2k2 instilled confidence in me, that's for sure, so I would imagine he got more bracket picks in 2k3 and mroe bracket votes because of it. I hate MK however, and like MM, so I voted for Zero anyway. Zero proved to be that much better, and now that he holds some voter confidence he could perform even better in 2k4.
"more obscure, far more obscure, than Raziel."
You're ****ing me, right? Strider? The same Strider that was in one of the absolute greatest arcade games of all time Strider? The Strider that appeared in the Marvel vs. Capcom games? THE Strider Hiryu "far more obscure" than Raziel? Raziel has been in one good game and one disappointing game, he doesn't exactly have a great resume... and if he's been in anything other than Soul Reaver 1 and 2 it's so unnoticable that it proves my point entirely. Frankly Strider deserved that win, and anyone who has played the original arcade game would agree with me. Don't try to factor out obscurity, because Strider isn't that obscure. He may not be hip with the mainstream crowd, but since when did the mainstream dictate the strength of mid tier characters? And for that matter, if mainstream means anythign at all, and Raziel is supposed to be less obscure, then there is no way Strider could have won. But he did.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
Ever seen a Phantasy Star character MENTIONED around SC nomination time, let alone get in? PS may be an RPG, but it doesn't come from an especially good background (the original PS would never have made it into this contest under a normal nomination system) and it can't ride on the strength of PSO which is, frankly, rather lacking.
"Speaking of pity votes, I'm betting The Simpsons got LOADS of those."
I doubt that, it's actually a fun game even though TMNT is more deserving of the spot.
"Zelda: LttP will be recognized by just about ANY gamer, while many non-RPGers will never have heard of Chrono Trigger."
This is still GameFAQs, if you've been here more than a year you've hears of Chrono Trigger.
"Theoretically, Sonic should've beaten Scorpion with 71% of the vote."
Scorpion could have easily underperformed in 2k2 due to bad seeding. His 2k2 instilled confidence in me, that's for sure, so I would imagine he got more bracket picks in 2k3 and mroe bracket votes because of it. I hate MK however, and like MM, so I voted for Zero anyway. Zero proved to be that much better, and now that he holds some voter confidence he could perform even better in 2k4.
"more obscure, far more obscure, than Raziel."
You're ****ing me, right? Strider? The same Strider that was in one of the absolute greatest arcade games of all time Strider? The Strider that appeared in the Marvel vs. Capcom games? THE Strider Hiryu "far more obscure" than Raziel? Raziel has been in one good game and one disappointing game, he doesn't exactly have a great resume... and if he's been in anything other than Soul Reaver 1 and 2 it's so unnoticable that it proves my point entirely. Frankly Strider deserved that win, and anyone who has played the original arcade game would agree with me. Don't try to factor out obscurity, because Strider isn't that obscure. He may not be hip with the mainstream crowd, but since when did the mainstream dictate the strength of mid tier characters? And for that matter, if mainstream means anythign at all, and Raziel is supposed to be less obscure, then there is no way Strider could have won. But he did.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Slowflake
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:04:45 PM | Message Detail
Theoretically, Sonic should've beaten Scorpion with 71% of the vote
Problem? West 2002 scores were most likely inflated, so that one figure would be as well.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
Problem? West 2002 scores were most likely inflated, so that one figure would be as well.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
From: Haste2
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:06:21 PM | Message Detail
Yay, someone said something about that message....thank you, Jaky (and
whoever might've also replied while I was making this message). Well,
judging by the message boards and myself, it seemed obvious that
Strider was more less-known.
Hm, good points about the rereleases, everyone. I couldn't agree more. Chrono Trigger did have a rerelease, but it's not like it was even close to LttP's popularity in the first place. :P
And why does everyone have such high expectations for Final Fantasy Tactics? Ack, I'd judge that it's by far the weakest of the four PSX Final Fantasy titles...yes, even weaker than FFIX. FFT is just another RPG with a vocal fanbase. (though the fanbase would be much larger than games like Earthbound.) I look at DDR and I only think anti-votes. I'll be a little surprised if FFT breaks 40%, and stunned if it can break the 45% mark.
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Hm, good points about the rereleases, everyone. I couldn't agree more. Chrono Trigger did have a rerelease, but it's not like it was even close to LttP's popularity in the first place. :P
And why does everyone have such high expectations for Final Fantasy Tactics? Ack, I'd judge that it's by far the weakest of the four PSX Final Fantasy titles...yes, even weaker than FFIX. FFT is just another RPG with a vocal fanbase. (though the fanbase would be much larger than games like Earthbound.) I look at DDR and I only think anti-votes. I'll be a little surprised if FFT breaks 40%, and stunned if it can break the 45% mark.
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:08:10 PM | Message Detail
You keep saying that Slowflake, but even the inflation could be
slightly less than anticipated. I can see Bracket voters/voter
confidence making up 1-2% of that difference for Scorp even if Seph
overperformed like you said. Which, btw, just sounds strange
considering the next year Sephiroth was almost even with Link. I can't
see reason in saying he did better than he should have one year and
then the next he got an even larger boost than we though because, well,
he didn't really deserve it the year before.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Slowflake
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:12:43 PM | Message Detail
I don't see a reason either. These extra points were just... there...
But it's obvious that in the biggest falls from 2002 to 2003, West 2002 characters dominate. Sonic, Ryu, Ken, Megaman. Heck, Samus seemed to improve, and even she took a big fall, and Tidus didn't improve as much as his actual performances would suggest.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
But it's obvious that in the biggest falls from 2002 to 2003, West 2002 characters dominate. Sonic, Ryu, Ken, Megaman. Heck, Samus seemed to improve, and even she took a big fall, and Tidus didn't improve as much as his actual performances would suggest.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:13:22 PM | Message Detail
"I'd judge that it's by far the weakest of the four PSX Final Fantasy titles...yes, even weaker than FFIX."
Not on GameFAQs.
"I look at DDR and I only think anti-votes."
Maybe some, but this just isn't the site for arcade gamers... and it's really not the site for DDR players. There's a little site called DDRfreak.com and it's pretty popular, in fact it's really popular. That's where "casual" DDR fans go. There are site specifically for more hardcore fans, and site for fans of other Bemani games. DDR probably has more sites devoted to it than 70% or more of the other games, so this isn't the place they would hang out at. And if, by some chance, DDRFreak had put up a message on their front page about the contest I would be willing to bet that DDR would have gotten an additional 5k votes easily. I'd be willign to make a bigger estimate, but I don't want to look foolish.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
Not on GameFAQs.
"I look at DDR and I only think anti-votes."
Maybe some, but this just isn't the site for arcade gamers... and it's really not the site for DDR players. There's a little site called DDRfreak.com and it's pretty popular, in fact it's really popular. That's where "casual" DDR fans go. There are site specifically for more hardcore fans, and site for fans of other Bemani games. DDR probably has more sites devoted to it than 70% or more of the other games, so this isn't the place they would hang out at. And if, by some chance, DDRFreak had put up a message on their front page about the contest I would be willing to bet that DDR would have gotten an additional 5k votes easily. I'd be willign to make a bigger estimate, but I don't want to look foolish.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Haste2
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:13:29 PM | Message Detail
Chichiri, don't get me wrong. Ever since I found out who Strider was,
he's been on my favorite characters EVER. Heck, Zero's high on my
lists, too. Kind of ironic those were the two I mentioned.
Yes, I've played the Simpsons on the arcade, too, and beaten it.
Scorpion got seeded worse in 2003...what's your point?
Oh, and when I mentioned SM's 83% against PSIV, I was saying that Super Metroid couldn't possibly be that weak (as in close to Doom in popularity).
Slowflake, good point about Sonic's inflation. It only makes your theory look even better...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Yes, I've played the Simpsons on the arcade, too, and beaten it.
Scorpion got seeded worse in 2003...what's your point?
Oh, and when I mentioned SM's 83% against PSIV, I was saying that Super Metroid couldn't possibly be that weak (as in close to Doom in popularity).
Slowflake, good point about Sonic's inflation. It only makes your theory look even better...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 7:35:41 PM | Message Detail
But Super Metroid obviously IS much, much weaker than people assumed it
was. So then, why is it hard to believe that it's that weak? I dunno,
really, but it's a possibility that you can't off-handedly disregard
until evidence shows otherwise. I don't think Super Metroid would be that weak, but who knows?
Oh, and all that mattered about scorpion's voter confidence was that he did well the ear before. Seeding meant nothing. He had past performance to go by, and at that time we had no reason to believe that his past performance was any more pathetic than it already appeared. Seeding only makes a real difference in voter confidence if the competitor is new. Why is that? Because when they are new the best data we have to go by is "well, it got a lot of nominations to get its seed" but if it has past performance we can see what it beat and by how much.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
Oh, and all that mattered about scorpion's voter confidence was that he did well the ear before. Seeding meant nothing. He had past performance to go by, and at that time we had no reason to believe that his past performance was any more pathetic than it already appeared. Seeding only makes a real difference in voter confidence if the competitor is new. Why is that? Because when they are new the best data we have to go by is "well, it got a lot of nominations to get its seed" but if it has past performance we can see what it beat and by how much.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 8:44:18 PM | Message Detail
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14109981
OMFG. There exist people that don't know what Myst is! The absolute, bar none best selling game of the year it was released AND the year after is this unknown on GameFAQs?! If "ancient" 10 year old games are so easily forgotten when they top best selling charts for literally over a hundred weeks...
I'm sure you can see the implications.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
OMFG. There exist people that don't know what Myst is! The absolute, bar none best selling game of the year it was released AND the year after is this unknown on GameFAQs?! If "ancient" 10 year old games are so easily forgotten when they top best selling charts for literally over a hundred weeks...
I'm sure you can see the implications.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: smitelf
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:01:18 PM | Message Detail
But Super Metroid obviously IS much, much weaker than people assumed
it was. So then, why is it hard to believe that it's that weak? I
dunno, really, but it's a possibility that you can't off-handedly
disregard until evidence shows otherwise. I don't think Super Metroid
would be that weak, but who knows?
I still think it was just underestimation (or complete neglect) of SFF that caused the match to be a surprise. Super Metroid isn’t necessarily weak; I see it as a strong game that has an “elemental” weakness to Zelda or Mario games, which makes the results of such matches deceiving. Of course, this is just a theory, but I find it more believable than Super Metroid seriously being as weak as it appears on the surface. Then again, it could be a simple "facts...not...computing" issue like those who are still mystified by Sonic's utter failure :)
OMFG. There exist people that don't know what Myst is!
*cries*
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
I still think it was just underestimation (or complete neglect) of SFF that caused the match to be a surprise. Super Metroid isn’t necessarily weak; I see it as a strong game that has an “elemental” weakness to Zelda or Mario games, which makes the results of such matches deceiving. Of course, this is just a theory, but I find it more believable than Super Metroid seriously being as weak as it appears on the surface. Then again, it could be a simple "facts...not...computing" issue like those who are still mystified by Sonic's utter failure :)
OMFG. There exist people that don't know what Myst is!
*cries*
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:14:48 PM | Message Detail
I cry too, smitelf, I cry too. To think people don't even know Myst..
which, while unable to stand up today at a place such as this is still
an absolutely revolutionary game.
*spoilers*
To think the two brother's books, which I thought to be my goal, were in fact BOTH your inevitable demise!
Anyway, sure, Link>Mario>Samus is the big N's standing and maybe, just maybe, SFF kicks the lesser in the balls... but that's pretty hard to buy. I mean, if you think about it, it's proven that in heavy weigth vs. heavy weight matches that SFF isn't effective in the SC and if we're going to base our ideas off of the SC (which is what you must do to think Metroid underperformed) then you must say Metroid ISN'T a heavyweight. If Metroid isn't a heavyweight then its losses were fair, but if we go on SC knowledge Metroid should be a heavyweight.
SC says - Samus is a heavyweight
SC says - Heavyweight vs. Heavyweight voids SFF
SpC says - Metroid got its ass punked
If SC "laws" = SpC "laws" then Metroid =/= Heavyweight
Rem: SFF is void when HvH, Metroid was beaten badly enough to be SFF OR not a heavy weight.
If Samus = Heavyweight and Metroid =/= Heavyweight then Samus =/= Metroid.
If SC "laws" =/= SpC "laws" then SFF may effect HvH OR Metroid =/= Heavyweight.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
*spoilers*
To think the two brother's books, which I thought to be my goal, were in fact BOTH your inevitable demise!
Anyway, sure, Link>Mario>Samus is the big N's standing and maybe, just maybe, SFF kicks the lesser in the balls... but that's pretty hard to buy. I mean, if you think about it, it's proven that in heavy weigth vs. heavy weight matches that SFF isn't effective in the SC and if we're going to base our ideas off of the SC (which is what you must do to think Metroid underperformed) then you must say Metroid ISN'T a heavyweight. If Metroid isn't a heavyweight then its losses were fair, but if we go on SC knowledge Metroid should be a heavyweight.
SC says - Samus is a heavyweight
SC says - Heavyweight vs. Heavyweight voids SFF
SpC says - Metroid got its ass punked
If SC "laws" = SpC "laws" then Metroid =/= Heavyweight
Rem: SFF is void when HvH, Metroid was beaten badly enough to be SFF OR not a heavy weight.
If Samus = Heavyweight and Metroid =/= Heavyweight then Samus =/= Metroid.
If SC "laws" =/= SpC "laws" then SFF may effect HvH OR Metroid =/= Heavyweight.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Haste2
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:23:19 PM | Message Detail
Well, I've obviously heard of Myst, but I'm almost lucky to have heard
of it, since none of my closest friends have really played it...I pay
almost no attention to PC games. The only game I didn't recognize
before the Spring contest was Fallout 2.
Um...in GameFAQs polls, there is a mainstream crowd and a not-so-mainstream crowd. Can't you realize that there was enough mainstream gamers (I know that they do not dictate the polls) to pull it close, instead of Strider tearing apart Raziel? BTW, I've heard of River City Ransom dozens of times before I ever heard of the game Strider. I did, however, play a bit of Marvel vs. Capcom years back but I didn't even clearly remember Strider from that game.
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
Um...in GameFAQs polls, there is a mainstream crowd and a not-so-mainstream crowd. Can't you realize that there was enough mainstream gamers (I know that they do not dictate the polls) to pull it close, instead of Strider tearing apart Raziel? BTW, I've heard of River City Ransom dozens of times before I ever heard of the game Strider. I did, however, play a bit of Marvel vs. Capcom years back but I didn't even clearly remember Strider from that game.
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: smitelf
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:26:59 PM | Message Detail
It's more of a case of a heavyweight vs. a light heavyweight or
middleweight, depending on how we're approaching the "weight" classes.
Nevertheless, SM performed like a lightweight and I have a hard time
swallowing that without some kind of extenuating circumstances.
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:32:17 PM | Message Detail
Samus isn't a middleweight, and she'd never have her ass SFF'ed like
that. Metroid games could be middleweigths getting pummeled by SFF, but
then that clearly states that Metroid =/= Samus... right? That's all
I'm really trying to say. Metroid games are not as strong as Samus, and
given that information... We clearly see that the beating SM took isn't
as impressive as it would be for Link to do that to Samus.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: smitelf
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:43:27 PM | Message Detail
I can agree with that, Chichiri.
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
---
Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 47/48, Next Winner: Final Fantasy VII
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:47:49 PM | Message Detail
"it could be a simple "facts...not...computing" issue like those who are still mystified by Sonic's utter failure"
That, unfortunately is not "fact...not...computing" good ma'am. That is "reality...hard to...face". I saw that asswhooping coming from day one. In fact, if we count SC into this I saw Sonic getting his ass whooped at sometime or another by Mario like 8-10 stats topics ago.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
That, unfortunately is not "fact...not...computing" good ma'am. That is "reality...hard to...face". I saw that asswhooping coming from day one. In fact, if we count SC into this I saw Sonic getting his ass whooped at sometime or another by Mario like 8-10 stats topics ago.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: creativename
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:48:21 PM | Message Detail
I fear that MGS might get 65+% against Final Fantasy Tactics. I don't
think 70%, since I wouldn't expect Resident Evil to be equal to Final
Fantasy: Tactics...but I wouldn't rule it out.
I hope not; Tactics deserves better. MGS is a very, very strong game though. I'd assume Tactics was much stronger than RE so it should get 40%. I'm hoping Final Fantasy: Tactics breaks 40%, perhaps getting 45%. As a huge Tactics fanboy, I'd be happy with that.
---
Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
http://SC2K4.com/frog
I hope not; Tactics deserves better. MGS is a very, very strong game though. I'd assume Tactics was much stronger than RE so it should get 40%. I'm hoping Final Fantasy: Tactics breaks 40%, perhaps getting 45%. As a huge Tactics fanboy, I'd be happy with that.
---
Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
http://SC2K4.com/frog
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:49:25 PM | Message Detail
Yeah, well... I'll trade you 40% for Tactics if you get me 55% for SotN.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:50:06 PM | Message Detail
Hehe.
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: creativename
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:50:09 PM | Message Detail
Looks like we'll need another stats topic soon. This one went by real
fast. Not too much of substance was discussed though, it seemed to me.
---
Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
http://SC2K4.com/frog
---
Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
http://SC2K4.com/frog
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:53:37 PM | Message Detail
Yes, well, the chickenlittles were so busy saying the cel-shaded sky
was gonna whallop all over everybodies asses that somebody had to
remind them constantly that there is no evidence solid to support it.
It's somewhat void of substance to spend all this itme discussing the
validity of a match with no reference point, but it invalidates the
whole topic if we let people run around saying the whomping of a
middleweight spells the doom of games that probably aren't mw's.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:54:22 PM | Message Detail
I noticed that FFVII, the person who usually brings in the big vote
totals, didn`t exactly do such today. Just an observation though, has
nothing to do with chances.
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:57:48 PM | Message Detail
Yeah... I guess that means that people just can't find the god damned poll. If they could they'd see FF and go click happy.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:58:19 PM | Message Detail
Lol. =P
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 9:59:27 PM | Message Detail
Actually... does anybody think that such a thing could hurt the FFs? I
mean, really, they draw in more casual voters and tip the scales in
their balance... if the casuals don't know its there then could they be
getting a lower % than they would with the old front page?
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Haste2
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:02:17 PM | Message Detail
I highly doubt MGS will get over 65%...after all, Solid Snake would be
expected to get 69% in a match against Ramza. Oh, and I would like to
see FFT do very well, if not win, tomorrow's matchup, because I hate
MGS, and FFT is really good from what I've played (well, considering I
own the game, I need to beat it someday...).
As for FFT being the least popular by a longshot, I guessed I mostly meant that I believe FFT is not in the same league as FFVIII...and a bit behind FFIX, though not by much.
It would be interesting to see FFVIII vs. Metal Gear Solid...who would come out on top on that one? I would guess FFVIII by a hair, but who knows...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
As for FFT being the least popular by a longshot, I guessed I mostly meant that I believe FFT is not in the same league as FFVIII...and a bit behind FFIX, though not by much.
It would be interesting to see FFVIII vs. Metal Gear Solid...who would come out on top on that one? I would guess FFVIII by a hair, but who knows...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:04:25 PM | Message Detail
Here on GameFAQs tactics would beat 9 and could get a few good punches
in on FF8 which would cry like te sissy ***** it is, despite somehow
pulling a gunblade out of its yaoi-inducing ass and beating FFT to
death with it.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: cyko
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:14:31 PM | Message Detail
*is too busy at the moment to get deeply involved in the discussion*
=/
anyways, Twin Snakes will make the difference to push to victory over Metal Gear Solid. i won't be surprised to see FFT come close since it does have Final Fantasy in the name, but i don't think it will be enough. good-bye FFT.
oh, and btw - any one of those four games can still win the 16-Bit division.
---
Current Score: 47/50 (through FF7 vs. Xeno)
cyko's 256 Game Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14081056
=/
anyways, Twin Snakes will make the difference to push to victory over Metal Gear Solid. i won't be surprised to see FFT come close since it does have Final Fantasy in the name, but i don't think it will be enough. good-bye FFT.
oh, and btw - any one of those four games can still win the 16-Bit division.
---
Current Score: 47/50 (through FF7 vs. Xeno)
cyko's 256 Game Contest: http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=8&topic=14081056
From: redline15
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:16:19 PM | Message Detail
Here on GameFAQs tactics would beat 9 and could get a few good
punches in on FF8 which would cry like te sissy ***** it is, despite
somehow pulling a gunblade out of its yaoi-inducing ass and beating FFT
to death with it.
i can't decide if i like this comment more because it's funny...or because it's true...
just to follow the crowd and argue with you, however:
there were definitely some extenuating circumstances in the match between lttp and sm.
show me one other contestant that scored 83%, then 26%, and i might...might...reconsider.
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.
i can't decide if i like this comment more because it's funny...or because it's true...
just to follow the crowd and argue with you, however:
there were definitely some extenuating circumstances in the match between lttp and sm.
show me one other contestant that scored 83%, then 26%, and i might...might...reconsider.
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.
From: Dilated Chemist
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:24:31 PM | Message Detail
I noticed that FFVII, the person who usually brings in the
big vote totals, didn`t exactly do such today. Just an observation
though, has nothing to do with chances.
Eh?
---
Spring 2004 Contest - Score: 045/050
= Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Metal Gear Solid =
Eh?
---
Spring 2004 Contest - Score: 045/050
= Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Metal Gear Solid =
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:26:36 PM | Message Detail
"i can't decide if i like this comment more because it's funny...or because it's true..."
I liked it because it was both!
"just to follow the crowd and argue with you"
Bastards, all of you.
"show me one other contestant that scored 83%, then 26%,"
Those are pretty specific numbers... And if Kefka and Metroid didn't both fall short of 83% against Pac Man I'd show you two just to point out how crappy pac man is :P
Yes, it's odd... but PS as a series is just so damn weak here (obviously) that we can't tell if that's 83% good or 17% weaker than the sand on Kefka's boots. I can imagine the sand on Kefka's boots beating PS4, to be honest, and if you ever saw the price tag on PS4 when it was new you probably wouldn't argue. It didn't really sell when it was new, and while it's getting some popularity It's miles behind Earthbound around here... and that is Just. Plain. Sad. for a game that supposedly was in the running for best game ever.
Yes, I just said Earthbound would beat PS4, I cna't see why anyone would want to disagree.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
I liked it because it was both!
"just to follow the crowd and argue with you"
Bastards, all of you.
"show me one other contestant that scored 83%, then 26%,"
Those are pretty specific numbers... And if Kefka and Metroid didn't both fall short of 83% against Pac Man I'd show you two just to point out how crappy pac man is :P
Yes, it's odd... but PS as a series is just so damn weak here (obviously) that we can't tell if that's 83% good or 17% weaker than the sand on Kefka's boots. I can imagine the sand on Kefka's boots beating PS4, to be honest, and if you ever saw the price tag on PS4 when it was new you probably wouldn't argue. It didn't really sell when it was new, and while it's getting some popularity It's miles behind Earthbound around here... and that is Just. Plain. Sad. for a game that supposedly was in the running for best game ever.
Yes, I just said Earthbound would beat PS4, I cna't see why anyone would want to disagree.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:28:56 PM | Message Detail
I associated FFVII with Cloud, but that should read "the game", heh. ^_^
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: JaKyL25
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:32:45 PM | Message Detail
Of course Earthbound would beat PS4, if for no other reason than Ness's
exposure thanks to Smash Bros. Especially if it was this round, with
the character sprites.
PS4 is probably right up there with Super Metroid as "Best game that could easily be reissued for GBA, but for whatever reason isn't," though.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
PS4 is probably right up there with Super Metroid as "Best game that could easily be reissued for GBA, but for whatever reason isn't," though.
---
"If you want Bells & Whistles, I suggest you attend the Circus."--Lance F'n Storm
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:49:15 PM | Message Detail
I'd put Secret of Mana before any other game in regards to needing a rerelease.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 10:57:23 PM | Message Detail
Well, okay, maybe not above Lufia 2...
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: ChichiriMuyo
| Posted: 5/15/2004 11:15:56 PM | Message Detail
Okay, I'm headed to bed. Please, try not to post any "OMG, Zelda is teh
loose"-type messages while I'm gone should FFT somehow rip MGS a new
one. I don't want to lose my faith in humanity again.
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
---
ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/16/2004 12:15:40 AM | Message Detail
Well creative you are getting your wish because FFT is slightly ahead right now. O_o
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: Z1mZum
| Posted: 5/16/2004 12:16:33 AM | Message Detail
omg, tied at 203 votes.
---
Mega Man in the Summer Contest '04? You better believe it!
---
Mega Man in the Summer Contest '04? You better believe it!
From: redline15
| Posted: 5/16/2004 12:18:40 AM | Message Detail
heh...yeah. 500 votes in and we're still dead even.
70% is already pretty much out of the question...
nice to finally see a close match again...
...especially since it's this one...
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.
70% is already pretty much out of the question...
nice to finally see a close match again...
...especially since it's this one...
---
signature (n.): a random bit of gibberish that no one ever reads.
From: Tarrot
| Posted: 5/16/2004 1:25:47 AM | Message Detail
If FFT loses, I'm blaming it on the picture. I mean, jesus, can't you
find a much better picture to use then Sprite Ramza? I know it's a
sprite motif this round, but find something less pixelated.
From: Heroic Mario
| Posted: 5/16/2004 1:30:01 AM | Message Detail
MGS pulled back into the lead and looks like it`ll maintain it for the rest of the match, of course this is assuming that it gets the day votes which it will, nice effort by FFT.
By the way, here are the next two matchup pictures:
http://gamefaqs.com/shared/spr04b43.jpg
http://gamefaqs.com/shared/spr04b44.jpg
I gotta say OoT got screwed on the picture, but for Mario... Jump Mario, jump!
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
By the way, here are the next two matchup pictures:
http://gamefaqs.com/shared/spr04b43.jpg
http://gamefaqs.com/shared/spr04b44.jpg
I gotta say OoT got screwed on the picture, but for Mario... Jump Mario, jump!
---
Nintendo® - We Make Games Worth Playing
But as the light fades will the Hero rise again? Or will darkness reign?
From: SlangEdter41
| Posted: 5/16/2004 1:42:26 AM | Message Detail
If his outfit was blue instead, Snake would be mistaken as Cyclops to many.
---
Contest Score: 48/192
Next Pick : MGS
---
Contest Score: 48/192
Next Pick : MGS
From: Slowflake
| Posted: 5/16/2004 4:56:49 AM | Message Detail
Dang, Mario looks stoned on that pic.
I'm going to regret upping my Oracle pick on today's match... how is it this close anyway? DDR vs. RE will be something to watch as well...
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7
I'm going to regret upping my Oracle pick on today's match... how is it this close anyway? DDR vs. RE will be something to watch as well...
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 043/048 --- Matches: 35/40 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF7