Meaning the BOP numbers will lose a lot of significance as we progress.

Speaking of which, I've thought of a (quite troublesome actually) way to correct this, if you saved the brackets of the BOP. If you weight predictions according to how well they are currently doing, you'd get dynamic odds that would probably be more accurate.
---
I'd rather be damned for my own beliefs, than be damned for someone else's. - Shake
[This sig has been approved by UltimaterializerX]

*** COMPARISONS GAME - Match #35 - (6) DONKEY KONG vs. (3) LEGEND OF ZELDA ***

Sales

Read the few posts above. In case you just don't want to, or if these previews end up being archived on their own somewhere for some reason, LoZ was the first stand-alone game to reach 1 million copies, and sold 4.5 millions according to Heroic Mario. Can't touch this.

- Advantage LOZ.

Franchises

Dodongo dislikes smoke.

- Advantage LOZ.

GameFAQs Status

Number of FAQs: LoZ
Number of reviews: LoZ
Average review score: LoZ
Board activity: LoZ

I was struck by the low amount of reviews for LoZ, though most are 10s. And the DK board has only two posts, none about the game.

- Advantage LOZ.

Board Odds Project

PICKS (out of 102)
Legend of Zelda - 101
Also picked: Duck Hunt (1)

POINT VALUE
6. Legend of Zelda - 772
29. Donkey Kong - 71

Let's play money making game!

- Advantage LOZ

Previous Rounds

Buy somethin' will ya!

- Advantage LOZ

Summer Contests / Polls of the Day

Link = champion in 2002, ranked #2 in 2003.

Donkey Kong = lost half of his votes to Mario due to SFF in 2002, more solid in 2003 but got beat by Vercetti who got doubled by Megaman. (Yes, I know it's Cranky that stars in the original DK. Just a technicality.)

While LoZ is far from being the people's favorite in the series, it's safe to assume that DK is even farther from it.

- Advantage LOZ.

Intangibles

If Mario stole half of DK's vote count with SFF, and SMB3 stomped METROID of all games flat with a Kuribo's Shoe with SFF inscribed on it, what makes you think DK can escape getting sucked dry by LoZ, which comes off a bigger blowout than a male/female poll? Nothing? Good. I can'r come up with ANYTHING that could save DK's sorry ass.

- Advantage LOZ.

Conclusion: I am error. (Yes, I know it's from AoL, but I was out of catchphrases.)
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 029/034 --- Matches: 28/33 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF1

I was struck by the low amount of reviews for LoZ, though most are 10s.

That's because, about a year ago, all of the LoZ NES reviews were moved to the Famicom Disk System version. Don't know why that happened, though...
---
"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Yeah, mine was sent to the Famicom Disc System as well.
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
Booster, sir! There's a 70% chance that the object you're standing on is a cake...

And the DK board has only two posts, none about the game.

*ROTFL* XD

*ROTFL*

---
Welcome to SpC2k4, where you suck if you presume someone else's opinions.- Tai.

Match Review: SMB3 vs. Metroid

SMB3 won by a significant amount but I'm chalking that up to SFF unless proved otherwise. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if Zelda can pull high enough numbers on DK to counter this victory.

Match Preview: The Legend of Zelda vs. Donkey Kong

Another match that is not worth my time. Zelda will waste DK. If it doesn't get in the mid to high 80s, though, I'd say its chances against SMB3 can safely be considered nil.

My prediction: Zelda 87%, DK 13%
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Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04
Current Sp2K4 Score: 33/34, Next Winner: Final Fantasy

If I remember their Top 30 charts well enough it is based on polling the readers, and only subscribed readers iirc, and since it was a limited group it's hard to say how accurate that info is. Also iirc they asked "pros" and "dealers" which are both such strange groupes because it's hard to tell what that means. Are the pros NP employees? Nintendo employees? A mix of both? People who play for money? Dealers, are they the ones who sell the games on the show room floor like a car (laughs)? Do they handle distribution?

i used to subscribe to Nintendo Power and their little Power charts included: Reader's votes, Nintendo Power reviewer's votes, and Sales numbers. that was the players, pros, and dealers. in fact, i found an issue from August 1991, right before the SNES came out. here's the top 10 lists from it:

Players Top 10:

1. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. TMNT 2: Arcade Game
3. Megaman 3
4. Final Fantasy
5. Simpsons: Bart vs. Space Mutants
6. Dragon Warrior
7. Castlevania 3
8. Dragon Warrior 2
9. Megaman 2
10. Double Dragon 3

Dealers Top 10:

1. TMNT 2: Arcade Game
2. Super Mario Bros. 3
3. Tetris
4. Super Mario Bros. 2
5. Dr. Mario
6. Simpsons: Bart vs. Space Mutants
7. Dick Tracy
8. Double Dragon 3
9. Megaman 3
10. Bases Loaded 2

Pros Top 10:

1. Final Fantasy
2. Crystalis
3. Dragon Warrior 2
4. Megaman 3
5. Startropics
6. Ultima: Quest of the Avatar
7. Wizardry
8. Destint of an Emperor
9. The Immortal
10. Maniac Mansion

Overall Top 10:

1. Super Mario Bros. 3
2. TMNT 2: Arcade Game
3. Megaman 3
4. Final Fantasy
5. Dragon Warrior 2
6. Tetris
7. Crystalis
8. Simpsons: Bart vs Space Mutants
9. Startropics
10. Dr. Mario

amusing enough, neither Metroid nor Metal Gear nor even Contra show up on any of the lists. Zelda and Zelda 2, however did show up at numbers 20 and 25 respectively on the overall list and 11 and 15 on the Players list. i would be curious, however, to see if any of those three games showed up on their little Power Charts earlier in the NES's lifespan.

oh, and BTW- Super Mario Bros. 3 was still number one overall OVER THREE YEARS after it's release!!

and from my own personal memory, everyone i knew when i was younger played Super Mario Bros. 1,2,3, Contra, Punch-Out, Tecmo Bowl, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and Megaman 1,2,3 on the NES. a few people i knew played Final Fantasy, Zelda, and Dragon Warrior. two or three people had Metroid. and NOONE had Metal Gear. Metroid didn't really take off as a series until Super Metroid blew everyone away. and i didn't even know there was a Metal Gear on the NES until some time after Metal Gear Solid came out. at their peaks, Metroid could have beaten Metal Gear, but Contra would've blown them both away. neither the original Metroid nor Metal Gear would've gotten as much recognition if their series didn't become so awesome.

---
Current Score: 35/38 (through Zelda vs. DK) ?????/????? with ???? other people
A WINNER of Trivia 12

cyko, interesting top 10's. Here's the NES board's top 10, compiled from 2001 to date, repost from their board, and from an earlier post today when someone questioned the lack of Tecmo Super Bowl - 400+ votes, awarding 10 for 1st, 9 for 2nd, so on down to 1 for 10th:

1. Super Mario Bros. 3 ( 2397 )
2. Legend of Zelda, The ( 2365 )
3. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! ( 1138 )
4. Super Mario Bros. ( 1043 )
5. Final Fantasy ( 1006 )
6. Contra ( 998 )
7. Metroid ( 968 )
8. Mega Man 2 ( 879 )
9. Tecmo Super Bowl ( 725 )
10. Super Mario Bros. 2 ( 662 )
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Jon Thomson - 27/33, 28/34 - today: FF (voting Contra), tomorrow: Zelda

I've thought of a (quite troublesome actually) way to correct this, if you saved the brackets of the BOP. If you weight predictions according to how well they are currently doing, you'd get dynamic odds that would probably be more accurate.

Sadly, I don't have them saved... however, there are still conclusions that can be drawn from what I have.

Example:

Match #25
Halo: Combat Evolved - 67
Starcraft - 35

Match #45
Kingdom Hearts - 73
Starcraft - 14
Halo: Combat Evolved - 13
Soul Calibur - 2

The most glaring thing is that the Starcraft pickers have much more faith than the Halo pickers. About 40% of those who picked Starcraft also have it beating KH, while this percentage is twice as low for Halo. So basically, although they form a somewhat non-representative third of the sample, those that had Kingdom Hearts facing Starcraft had the foresight that this would be tough to call. Favoring the Square game is only the natural thing to do in these circumstances.

On another topic entirely...

ATTN: Solarshadow

I got an idea as for the labeling of stats topic. It's just an idea I had like that, it may be a bad one, but who knows. How about putting every single topic, pre-season, off-season, actual contest topics under the same label? I think that would be good, for two reasons:

1. We won't have to bother anymore when changing periods - when the Spring Contest was announced I had to run a poll to see what would happen to the current topic, which was labeled as off-season. Now, with two contests, such changes would happen five times per year, so we wouldn't have to bother with such logistic stuff.

2. With two contests, we can actually end up talking about the other one easily in order to widen the perspective of this whole thing... so the title could end up being less misleading, in a way.

So, maybe the next one could be titled "Spring/Summer Contests - Stats & Discussion - Part 16" or something like that. As I said, just an idea, you're still the boss. (But don't say your ego wouldn't be flattered by a "Part 16" topic! ;) )
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 029/034 --- Matches: 28/33 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF1

cyko's Point of View

Match 35

(3) Legend of Zelda vs. (6) Donkey Kong

okay, DK barely, and i mean BARELY scraped past Duck Hunt. and he lost to Vercetti last year. and the year before that he got around 20% against Mario. if MArio can get 80% against DK, the Zelda easily can.

next match, please.


prediction: Legend of Zelda with 81-85%

my bracket: Legend of Zelda

personal favorite: Legend of Zelda - DK was a little before my time. and Zelda really is that good. even today, it's still fun.

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Current Score: 35/38 (through Zelda vs. DK) ?????/????? with ???? other people
A WINNER of Trivia 12

1. Super Mario Bros. 3 ( 2397 )
2. Legend of Zelda, The ( 2365 )

This is from the SNES board:
Rank. Game ( Points ) Votes - #1 Votes
01. Chrono Trigger ( 1516 ) 194 - 66
02. Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past ( 1500 ) 221 - 40

32 point gap out of over 2000 points for SMB3 vs LoZ and a 16 point gap out of 1500 points for CT vs Lttp. An all Zelda final is a definite possibility.
---
''Those whose memories fade seek to carve them in their hearts...''
''All dreams are but another reality. Never forget...''

Very possible, however, I think SMB3 is a little stronger than LttP...
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
Booster, sir! There's a 70% chance that the object you're standing on is a cake...

I very much doubt it. Heck, I doubt it's going to beat LoZ.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 029/034 --- Matches: 28/33 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF1

I`m not even worried much about LoZ beating it to be honest, never have.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
Booster, sir! There's a 70% chance that the object you're standing on is a cake...

I, for one, have never looked at the 95% blowout against someone like Adventure to prove that it`ll suddenly take down the most popular Mario game. SMB3 isn`t just a game that anything could take down and not have a fight doing so, and with LoZ being the weakest of the four Zelda games I really don`t see much of a reason to worry about it beating SMB3. I`d be surprised if it did beat SMB3.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
Booster, sir! There's a 70% chance that the object you're standing on is a cake...

For my bracket's sake, I hope you're right.

Still, when ANY game can get over 95% against ANY other game, odds are, this game is in to stay.

Remember how Megaman was supposed to lose horribly to Sephiroth in a certain SC2K2? Remember how beating Ms. Pac-Man 92-8 suddenly revivified his momentum?

92-8 is one thing, but as we get closer to 100%, differences are amplified. 95% is in a much different league than 92%, thank you very much. When you combine joke votes, pity votes, anti-votes and genuine votes and can't even get 5%...
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 029/034 --- Matches: 28/33 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: FF1

Match #33 Review:

Unless LoZ gets over 85% tomorrow, I'd say SMB3 has this division pretty much wrapped up.

Match #35 Preview:

See above.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

I wouldn`t exactly say that SMB3 couldn`t manage at or slightly over 95% as well. Ah well, we`ll get to see how things turn out tonight...
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

Man, I almost predicted this match perfectly. Right now Final Fantasy has 70.09% while my prediction is 70.13%. Feels good to be back into the divisions where I know the popularity of the games almost perfectly. =P
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

Legend of Zelda is dominating like expected, 85% right now. I wouldn`t say thats exactly what it would need to beat SMB3 considering how much stronger Metroid is, but good show from LoZ.
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

I was about .15 off from last match and I'm about 10 off todays match I thought having Mario in it would've helped (I guess they shoud've have Mario in the front picture)
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LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC
My Score 33/36 LoZ vs. Donkey Kong

Slowflake:
Nor do I need numbers for that. It's ridiculously hard to gauge how many people played an arcade game. Especially Pong.

I would say Tetris was orders of magnitude ahead of Pong in terms of revenues. Pong was a big hit that was the first arcade game and changed gaming history because it launched Atari, but I highly doubt it could possibly come close to the money that Tetris generated.

Ulti:
smitelf: Sarcasm sweetie, sarcasm <3

Sarcasm made no sense in that context though. You weren't referencing anything...?

Chichiri:
It's fun information to look at, but it's hardly indicative of how wide-spread AND enjoyed games were

Obviously I know all the reasons why this could be misleading, but it's really the only data we would have. And like I said, I do remember it being roughly correlated with sales.

They are on a similar plane

I am totally unconvinced.

cyko:
oh, and BTW- Super Mario Bros. 3 was still number one overall OVER THREE YEARS after it's release!!

You just nailed why I resented that game so much. That ****ing game was ALWAYS number 1. It would never job!
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Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
SC2K4.com

Slowflake:
92-8 is one thing, but as we get closer to 100%, differences are amplified. 95% is in a much different league than 92%, thank you very much

You are very correct Slowflake. There is a much bigger difference between 90% and 95% then there is between 50% and 60%, if these results behave entirely according to statistical rules. Which they don't, but so far they have appeared to roughly do so.

There is a 2x difference between 90% and 95%, *if* the properties of random uniform variables hold: in order to improve its performance from 90% to 95%, a game would have to double its popularity value relative to the other game. In order to improve from 50% to 60%, a game has to improve only 20% in relative terms.

This is why I changed my The Legend of Zelda prediction back down to 83% from 86%--86% would have been insane. But it's hovering at 85.5% right now.

While SMB3's performance was staggering, so is The Legend of Zelda's. That is going to be a monumental clash. And right now a clear-cut favorite does not exist.

Since SMB3 got 78.04% against Metroid, and assuming The Legend of Zelda gets 85% here, if you set SMB3=The Legend of Zelda, one can presume that Metroid would beat Donkey Kong with 65.85% of the vote. (SFF is an influence, but for the moment let's assume it affects both equally) So Metroid would have to do better than that for SMB3 to be greater than The Legend of Zelda. That would put Donkey Kong around the level of performance of Pac-Man. Which seems to make sense. If you think Pac-Man was stronger than Donkey Kong, you can probably put SMB3 as your favorite.

Let's try to use Pac-Man's and DK's performances in the character contests as proxies for their games. I'll use DK from 2002 and Pac-Man from 2003 since those were both SFF influenced. Donkey Kong would've been expected to get 13.5% against Link in 2K2, Pac-Man 15.78% in 2K3.

But, if you don't use the SFF influenced numbers (i.e., use 2K3 for DK and 2K2 for Pac-Man), DK is ahead 25.34% to 20.3%.

All this was unnecessary, but it is just to show how up in the air SMB3 vs. The Legend of Zelda really is.
---
Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
SC2K4.com

oh, and BTW- Super Mario Bros. 3 was still number one overall OVER THREE YEARS after it's release!!

SMB3 was released in NA in February 1990...so, 18 months.
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros.

Hehe. LoZ's nearing 86% now. Against a legendary name like Donkey Kong, that's impressive. I think Duck Hunt would be doing a little better, though.

I can't wait to see if CT's going to regain some momentum in two days. It can definitely do it.

Speaking of which... do you think there will be SFF in LttP/SM? I doubt it, since there was none in Link/Samus, and we aren't even talking about Link's most popular game anyway.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 031/036 --- Matches: 29/34 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: LoZ

i absolutely agree that duck hunt would be doing better - my guess would be 20% instead of 12-14%, which is where the monkey is gonna wind up. duck hunt has friends on the site. when the chips are down, donkey kong's support always turns out to be extremely shallow and fickle.

I, for one, have never looked at the 95% blowout against someone like Adventure to prove that it`ll suddenly take down the most popular Mario game. SMB3 isn`t just a game that anything could take down and not have a fight doing so, and with LoZ being the weakest of the four Zelda games I really don`t see much of a reason to worry about it beating SMB3. I`d be surprised if it did beat SMB3.

NO! WW is the weakest! :-) It has to face..SSBM? :-)
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Welcome to SpC2k4, where you suck if you presume someone else's opinions.- Tai.

*** COMPARISONS GAME - Match #36 - (7) PONG vs. (2) TETRIS ***

Sales

Tetris sold 33 million copies... sure, it being packed with the Game Boy helped, but then again it was its main selling point for quite a while. It's doubtful that as many people played Pong at the arcades, despite its tremendous popularity.

- Advantage TETRIS.

Franchises

Sure, Tetris is obviously the more popular of the two games, but when you think about it, both names are in a status of their own in terms of legendary titles. Everyone's heard of both.

- TIE.

GameFAQs Status

Number of FAQs: Tetris
Number of reviews: Tetris
Average review score: Pong
Board activity: Pong

Except for the review scores, this is most definitely a battle of mediocrity here. Surprising that there's a Pong FAQ in the first place. Most of the topics on the Pong board are about the contest, but the biggest topic there can beat the entire Tetris board alone... and it's a Pong vs. FF7 poll. Heck, there's even a Heroic Left Paddle on that board.

Seriously, no one gives the opponent a beating in any sub-category, so...

- TIE.

Board Odds Project

PICKS (out of 102)
Tetris - 100
Pong - 1
Also picked: River City Ransom (1)

POINT VALUE
11. Tetris - 366
26. Pong - 94

Um... OK.

- Advantage TETRIS.

Previous Rounds

Pong pulled a very impressive 68% against RCR... while Tetris gave away 22% to Galaga. If I were to base my analysis on that only, I'd say this match is a coin toss (of course, it isn't).

- TIE.

Summer Contests / Polls of the Day

Nothing... on GameFAQs. GameSpy had the exact same poll, and Tetris won 79-21. Since the PC-biased nature of the site shouldn't have affected the results much, odds are, Tetris would win anywhere. Of course, I seriously doubt we'll have a repeat in terms of percentages... no way is Galaga stronger than Pong. But it'll be very difficult for Pong to survive nonetheless.

- Advantage TETRIS.

Intangibles

What's more exciting, Pong or Tetris? The average voter doesn't have a doubt about it. Don't get me wrong, I personally like Pong better, but I'm aware that I'm in a minority... there was a board poll yesterday, and I was the only Pong voter. Hehe.

- Advantage TETRIS.

Conclusion: Tetris will save Pong the humilation of being LoZ's next meal.

...Well that's about it, you can cut now!
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 031/036 --- Matches: 29/34 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: LoZ

I really think LoZ is weaker than WW. Why, WW slaughtered it in the last "favorite Zelda" poll.
---
SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 031/036 --- Matches: 29/34 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: LoZ

Are ya all ready? Fanboys? Gamers? Elites? Newbies? :) It's time for...the enhanced...

Steve Illumina Speaks

Indeed it is so, the infamous and ever humorous commentary continues, to offer some educated levity, here on this the true beacon of intelligence on this overly fanboy dominated board.

And so it proceeds, with the battle of the blocks, balls, and blings in the "Ancient" Division

ROUND 2: Match XXXVI

(7)Pong vs (2)Tetris

Steve's Prediction: Tetris by 78.8%
Steve's Bracket: Tetris
Newbie's Pick: Tetris
Upset Chances: This aint Chernobyl!

Comments: Here we got the 4th in as many easy to call 2nd rounders, as vintage Pong takes on semi-vintage Tetris.

About the only thing this match will be remembered for is the interesting picture the match will have. Paddle vs L piece? Straight piece vs pong ball? We shall soon see, and we will laugh...

The simplest games can sometimes be the most fun. Such is the case with Tetris. Tetris on Xbox Live is quite enjoyable, Tetrinet back in the late 90's was the bomb too, at least for me anyways.

Ah yes let me remember the days...1996-1997...I was on a Tetrinet kick that year, my freshman year at Penn State. In those days, a site named Case's Ladder was all the rage for multiplayer gaming ranking systems and competitions. While this site is still around, it has lost the luster it once enjoyed, overshadowed by online services such as Xbox Live, Battle.net, and Sony's PlayOnline. But still, in those days, thats all there was that peeps cared about. There were competitors like MPlayer and TEN (Total Entertainment Network) but they all flopped. With Kali as my program of choice to meet the players I would beat up on all day in between writing economics papers that year, I won way more than I lost...and the name Illumina was known in the wide world of Tetrinet as one worth playing...and tough to beat!

True Steve Illumina Fact: I got so good and respected at Tetrinet and was so into the ladder site back then, Case himself gave me a job working for his site that year in the support forums. Best thing was, it got me to E3 1997, where I played Metal Gear Solid AND FFVII before each and every fanboy on this site. What do you all think of that? Odin was never so beautiful as he was in Atlanta on June 16-18 1997...

So for sentimental reasons if no other, Tetris has my vote today. But it will have many more votes than mine...I am thinking a blowout is in the blocks...

Pong? Got nuttin to say here...infact...gimme a break...its outclassed, outmatched, outta here! Next!

Why Tetris Will Win: Voting blocks: Nintendites, Adults, Puzzlers, Casuals, Russians

Why Pong Wont Win: Atari diehards and the loyal retro gamers who play nothing newer than Burgertime will stick with it, but those are few and far between. No one anti-votes Tetris either.

Probable Results: The straight piece will whack the ball out of the way as it scores another Tetris, over 80% is very possible here to wrap up the blowout ancient division.

Best Bosses: Pong: The left paddle? The score? I dunno! Tetris: The fastest speed setting...wow! Not for the slow!
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SCK24: 36/40 Trivia XIII: Diehards Forever
Steve Illumina: Standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years

I wont be around tomorrow...so I gotta put the Chrono preview up a day early. So it follows in the next post.

Keep up the great work, fellow elites!
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SCK24: 36/40 Trivia XIII: Diehards Forever
Steve Illumina: Standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years

Are ya all ready? Fanboys? Gamers? Elites? Newbies? :) It's time for...the enhanced...

Steve Illumina Speaks

Indeed it is so, the infamous and ever humorous commentary continues, to offer some educated levity, here on this the true beacon of intelligence on this overly fanboy dominated board.

And so it proceeds, with the 1st InterSquare matchup, this one commencing the "Greatest Generation" Division

ROUND 2: Match XXXVII

(1)Chrono Trigger vs (8)Super Mario RPG

Steve's Prediction: Chrono by 60.1%
Steve's Bracket: Chrono
Newbie's Pick: One or the other! Usually will be Chrono!
Upset Chances: Remote

Comments: Here we got the first tough decision for the fanboys, as their holy Chrono takes on the favorite son Mario RPG.

After Mario RPG defeated the legendary Street Fighter II last round and upset the balance of the fates on this here site, the three parties involved in getting Mario RPG in this tourney: Nintendites, Mario Lovers, and the Square Legions, held another meeting to determine how to counter and defeat one of Square's truest juggernauts. The Square Legions; however, left the meeting, unable to betray their dear Chrono...showing where their true loyalty lies.

And that folks, will be the difference in this match that propels Square's beloved yet overloved game to the top this Monday. All Square fans love Chrono, but not all love Mario RPG...and if they do, they love Chrono just a little more. And there aint no room for a threesome here! Its gotta be one or the other, so the froggy takes it!

We all know how Chrono is revered on this site...his very shadow is drooled on by the many fanboys. Still though to me he will always be, that 'generic spiky haired katana wielding teeny-bopper' The game is greater than the character...this match will prove it, as Mario will not win this time in their long simmering feud. He will get another shot in Round 3...

Why Chrono Will Win: Voting blocks: Square Legions. Nuff said.

Why Mario Wont Win: Nintendites and Mario lovers as well as Anti-Chrono/Square votes will keep it close...but not close enough to overcome!

Probable Results: Frog shall hop forth, rallying cry in tow "Forthwith I shall slay Mario and restore honor!" in the vein of 60% or so.

Best Bosses: Trigger: Tough one. I'll say the Mother Brain & 3 Displays: The CPU that Robo has to defeat in the future! Always loved this fight. Mario RPG: Birdo: the pink bird! Duh.
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SCK24: 36/40 Trivia XIII: Diehards Forever
Steve Illumina: Standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years

Lol, I completely forgot the second round had only half the matches, and I was wondering why there was already a preview for Chrono Trigger VS SMRPG. ^_^
---
I'd rather be damned for my own beliefs, than be damned for someone else's. - Shake
[This sig has been approved by UltimaterializerX]

NO! WW is the weakest! :-) It has to face..SSBM? :-)

Sadly, very sadly, LoZ is the weaker of the two. A poll has it being slaughtered by Wind Waker and if you put the two against each other I`d be willing to bet it won, even if only by a littl bit.
---
Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

I'm not convinced that Wind Waker is stronger than The Legend of Zelda. We all know the lack of relevance of PotD's. Just to take a recent example, Kingdom Hearts received far more votes than Soul Calibur II in that one Game of the Year poll. These kinds of polls mean very little.

I would suspect that The Legend of Zelda will rank higher in the extrapolated standings than Wind Waker when all is said and done. (though that might be because of SFF if Ocarina of Time wins...but then, if The Legend of Zelda and A Link to the Past win, there might be SFF in their match as well as SFF in the Final if the winner faces Ocarina of Time) But I think The Legend of Zelda might rank higher even without SFF hurting Wind Waker.

Note that I wouldn't be at all surprised if Wind Waker was stronger than The Legend of Zelda, but I have seen nothing convincing indicating that this is so.

Really, it's nearing 87% now...this is just ridiculous. SMB3 vs. The Legend of Zelda...wow. Just wow.
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Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4!
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Everyone forgot one simple thing before this contest. The Zeldas kicking the crap out of each other in polls doesn`t mean anything. When you seperate them, they all know how to whip some ass.
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Boards Hunted: 4098
I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

I agree w/ CN about LoZ. 95% against any oponnent is absolutely huge, we already know that. So we know LoZ isn't weak by any means. That's not prrof that it's stronger, but it wouldn't roll over and die. It'd be an old-school vs. new-school match, except even OoT fans would be divided but LttP fans would be less so. Then Celda anti-voters still exist, which is somewhat unfortunates, and we have no idea what the implications of WWs match happens to be. The 8/16 winner would have to be crushed by the 32/54/128 winner to make WW's performance look anywhere near as good as LoZs.

Now, I choose to disagree on some points. I assure you cyko's enough evidence to hold up my point that neither Metroid nor MG were top tier in their day. Top tier games have a lasting impression. Mega Man 2 is about the same age as Metroid, but Metroid isn't on that list. Look at SMB 2 on the dealer's list. That's older than Metroid, and about as old as MG. And that's supposed to be sales! Of Mario 2! Some games, and series, have long lasting effects. Neither Metroid nor MG did. I never said that Metroid wouldn't have beaten MG in it's day, I just said that the results from facing Mario showed about how close it would have been. Thery're both second tier games. They aren't Zeldas or Marios, and those perticular games of course never will be. So yeah, you're pretty much right in saying that it wasn't until later in each game's series that they became big.

"And like I said, I do remember it being roughly correlated with sales."

Obviously only 1 section of 3. I can assure you one was a reader poll and another was based off of reviewer scores. So one, out of 3, is likely to be based on pure sales data. And in that one section we can see that Metroid is outdone 3 years later by one of the least popular (though undeserving of being the least) Mario games of all time.

"I am totally unconvinced."

Well, they're both big name and neither of them are top tier. I'm sorry you can't see what's right in front of you. Maybe if we had some Nintendo Power mags available from their respective years (and I mean every issue from them entering the charts until they left the charts for both games). Then you could be convinced, right? It's easy enough to face up to the fact that Metroid isn't top tier, and if you can't at least take that step you're insane. It got beat out by a game that was twice as old as it, after all.

Cyko, the full top 30's would be interesting (but unnecessary at this point) to see since you say Zelda 1 is on there, a game that is twice as old as Metroid at that point, proving the difference between top tier and second. The original Metroid could never have stacked up to the original Zelda. That's my idea of a full tier difference, and thank you for bringing it.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

Yes, that's filled with typos because I simply can't type. My apologies, but I simply cannot feel moved to fix it.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

I think we`re all used to your typos by now ~_^
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I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

Slowflake, I forgot to mention that The Legend of Zelda sold 6.5 million copies not 4.5 million. I got LttP`s sales and LoZ`s sales confused.

For the next Zelda match, LttP sold 4.5 million.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

LttP was also a system seller when the game was released, so I`d be pretty confident in the sales for LttP being greater than Super Metroid.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

I had little doubt about that in the first place.
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 031/036 --- Matches: 29/34 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: LoZ

Gotcha. =D
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

Besides, most games that remain I can find the info easily, save for Doom and Starcraft... but since it's obvious that Starcraft sold more than KH and WW, that leaves Doom, and I'd wager it outsold FF6 by a good amount. Right?
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SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 031/036 --- Matches: 29/34 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: LoZ

If it were any non-rpg SNES game I would disagree, but RPGs didn't hit big until FF7, so chances are Doom outsold FF6 pretty well.
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ChichiriMuyo is officially the Discussion Guru Encyclopedia - UltimaterializerX
And I'm 23/24 myself. My loss was all part of Alucard's plan. - BigCow

I would wager to say that Doom outsold FFVI by a good amount. Chrono Trigger vs. SMRPG would be tough to gauge sale-wise, but the fact SMRPG has Mario on it probably pushed it ahead of CT.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

LoZ is doing roughly 8% better than SMB3 did, I still don`t think LoZ has caught up that much to take away the favorite from SMB3.
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

Well, I know one thing. A clash of the titans is imminent.
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Boards Hunted: 4098
I would like to take this moment to politely and sincerely orgasm over Ulti's Halo/Starcraft analysis. -smitelf

Here`s something interesting...


In February 2003, before Wind Waker`s release LoZ ranked pretty high up there and LttP did a little worse than before.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1180

In April 2003, less than a month after Wind Waker`s release it jumps up a lot...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.html?poll=1225

I`m kind of thinking that LoZ could very well be the stronger of the two, because the hype of the game could still have proven to gather a lot of votes in those polls...

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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.

That it will be Ulti...
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Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End
This is the melody that will draw you into the infinite darkness that absorbs even time.