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| Spring 2004 Contest |
| Stats & Discussion - Spring 2004 Contest - Part 2 |
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| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:10:58 PM | Message Detail |
| *realizes Haste2 implied Pokemon fans were dumb* Well, looks like I didn't go off on a tangent at all then. I still suggest you make appologies to the Pokemon fans with great haste </pun> --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:18:33 PM | Message Detail |
| I
didn't try to disprove anything. As a matter of fact, I think that if
the anti-votes are big enough, Xenogears will be given the win on a
silver platter. That's what I've been banking on since the bracket
first came out. However, at the same time, I doubt the casual voter's
awareness of Xenogears... And yes, the hardcore of the hardcore is mucho different from the hardcore. The hardcore of the hardcore likes Luigi, the hardcore likes Squall. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 013/017 --- Matches: 13/17 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Xenogears |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:21:15 PM | Message Detail |
| <sarcasm>
Boy, the fifth and sixth sentances must have been too far into the rant
for you bother reading them, right? I mean, hell, why read more than
the first line of text when it basically tells you what the whole post
is going to be about. Reading? Nah, not worth the time. Hell, you
couldn't be bothered to read the text in a game that is supposed to be
focused on storyline, why in the hell would you read a whole post
before commenting on it? </sarcasm> Wow, and I’m supposed to take you seriously? Please. How is it that I can disagree with Ulti on almost everything and yet hardly ever get down to actually *flaming* each other, yet whenever you and I have a disagreement you act as if I’ve insulted your mother? I did read your whole post (as painful on my eyes as it was). I also happened to read the entirety of the text in Xenogears – doesn’t mean I enjoyed it. Some of you Xenogears fans seem to think that anyone who has played the game has to like it. Do you honestly think you’re better than those FFVII fans who think the same? Oh, and guess what, we've already pretty much discounted the effect of FAQ pages because they are far from indicative of a games popularity. Pre-Advance Gameboys have little to mention in the way of RPGs, especially big name RPGs. So umm... DUH! of course Pokemon has the most active GB board. Okay, so I suppose the message boards are a *much* better indicator of popularity, then. I can assure you, while a handful of poeple hate Xenogears it's not enough to constitute a regular hate-base and is but a miniscule fraction of the hate-base that Pokemon brings. My point was that you said you didn’t think there were *any* Xenogears haters and, well, you were wrong. I never said the game had a significant hate base, only that there are some of us. <sarcasm>Perhaps you're incapable of making the connection. Let me draw it out for you ('tis a shame I can't post pictures to make it easier for you to understand). </sarcasm> Hating something that is generally loved is part of human nature. The general GameFAQs populace loves FF7 so a given group hates it. The general populace of this entire ****ing country at one point loved Pokemon, so in turn a very substantial group of people hate it. Those people are far more likely to visit GameFAQs. But what you said was that it was the boards that hated, and my point was that we weren’t talking about the boards. You seem to be reading things in my posts that I never actually said, and I’m still not sure if I should be bothering with countering you considering your penchant for personal insults. The hardcore Pokemon fanbase is larger than Xenogears, the unconcerned voters lean towards Xenogears. No, your sample is too biased (registered users who *also* took the time to look for the poll) for you to make that conclusion. Why would everyne who only liked Pokemon R/B/Y (a game that really is 5 years old) be hanging around at a message board? Because they like the game. Simple concept? I thought so. The point I was trying to illustrate (not *prove*, but illustrate) is that I do not believe that most people loved either game are still on their message boards, making them poor examples of exactly how many fans each game has. Is that my opinion? Damn straight, just as everything you have said is your opinion, which is why I was chuckling a bit later on at the point where you ask me to "prove" you wrong. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:21:48 PM | Message Detail |
| "Hell,
I love Final Fantasy X and would vote for it against almost anything
but you're not going to see me hanging around on its message board." Okay, so people love Xenogears but THEY won't hang around at its board either. Same for Pokemon. What the **** does that have to do with anything at all? Do I care that you like FFX? Does it matter to me if you hang out on its board? No, it doesn't, and in fact it has nothing to do with the conversation at all. If you think it proves something, it doesn't. One person is never a valid subject to guage other people on. I hate onions, does every human being hate onions? No. I was giving you an example. I never said I was indicative of the entire GameFAQs population, rather I was trying to illustrate that not everyone who really enjoyed a game is measured by the size of its message board. I don’t think the size of the message boards are all that helpful in that respect. That is the point I was trying to make. Your opinion has nothing to do with the conversation and your tendancies aren't reflective of other people. Give your opinion to someone who actually asks for it. Uh, well, since this is a *discussion* topic, I was under the impression that giving my opinion was the thing to do. That implies that I *ahem* imlied previously that if the gap between Xenogears and Pokemon couldn't be made up by pokemon's larger fanbase then Pokemon's chances of winning tomorrow aren't as great as Slowflake predicted. You know what else that implies? That the difference between the two games is from casual voters who are generally unaffected by either game but chooses one regardless. Let's see here. Pokemon has a larger fanbase, Xenogears is winning anyways... that leads me to believe casual voters favor Xenogears. Where did you miss that? But since there was virtually no “casual” vote in the poll, I don’t see how any of this is applicable. Not only that, but I’m getting a little tired of the personal insults in every paragraph. As a fan of the game since long before it was translated into English I must assure you, the two are not mutually exclussive. Pikachu hate is an extension of Pokemon hate at it is the game's primary mascot. Mario hate is often linked to Nintendo hate, Cloud hate is often linked to FF7 hate. People can hate the character but love the game (or the company) but that doesn't mean that the majority of haters doesn't hate both. Pikachu is not the mascot for the Pokemon games the way Mario is the mascot for Nintendo. Pikachu is primarily a mascot for the TV show. Many fans of the Pokemon games hate Pikachu because of the cutesy image it projects. But, quite frankly, I’m tired of beating this dead horse. If you don’t get it now, then you never will. Perhaps you've never considered the possibility that Some people hate the Pokemon games but think Pikachu is adorable. I’m sure there are several but I doubt that there are a large number of them on this site. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:22:18 PM | Message Detail |
| Maybe
it's just me, but I think if you're going to critique my rants you
should either produce concepts to explain the same situation while
simultaneously disproving my theory or you should bring evidence to the
contrary. It is just you. All I have to do is disprove your theory. I already brought up several points and I’ll repeat them if you wish. 1) today’s poll showed nothing about the casual vote, 2) today’s poll didn’t even show all that much about the registered user vote because even they would have to be looking for the poll underneath, 3) the message boards for each respective game constitutes a very small part of the voters, even registered voters and, as such, I don’t even know why they are being discussed, 4) Pokemon hate among the casual voters is highly exaggerated, 5) the FAQs are a better way to judge than the Message Boards because more people use them (I never said either was accurate), 6) Pikachu is not a good representative for the performance of his game. And I have no more or less proof than you do. It’s all opinion until tomorrow, and possibly even until one of the two games faces Final Fantasy VII, at which point we will have a prior contender (or close enough) with which to compare Pokemon’s performance to Pikachu’s. And no, the "casual" users not having voted isn't sound reasoning. And again, no, having the busiest FAQs on an RPG leaning site for an RPG starved handheld system isn't sound evidence. And finally, no, disassociating Pikachu from Pokemon is not sound anything. Most "casual" gamers cannot, will not, or simply do not disassociate the two. And plenty of people around here disagree with you, particularly points #1 and #3. Including CJay, apparently, at least on point #1 – if he didn’t think the casual users mattered then he wouldn’t have stopped the poll today. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:22:47 PM | Message Detail |
| "I didn't try to disprove anything" "Given a lack of any previous point by point rebuttal by anyone, especially the person my comment were directed to" I know you didn't. Oh, and the hardcore of the hardcore likes CATS. :) --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:33:21 PM | Message Detail |
| Y'know,
Chichiri, I'm pretty close to putting you on my "ignore list". Your
constant and unnecessary personal insults at my expense show that you
either take this contest too seriously or just have too much of a
personal dislike for me (for whatever reason) for us to have a
reasonable discussion. They also make your points less noteworthy
because anyone who needs to back themselves up with ridiculous insults
(and I do mean ridiculous; I've never had a meaningful conversation
with you so whatever you think about my reading comprehension or
intellect mean absolutely nothing to me) usually doesn't have much to
say to begin with. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: FastFalcon05 | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:35:27 PM | Message Detail |
| I
guess what I'm trying to say, though I can't put it well into words, is
that Pokemon is either going to win or lose due to the amount of fans
it has, not the hate base it has. So, it boils down to are you really
going to not vote for Pokemon because you once liked it, but now think
its childish or whatever, or are you just going to vote for it? Hmmm,
that's not significant at all, is it? well, anti-votes don't exist, or
at least in a substantial way, at any rate. --- Was nokia trying to prove that something can be made worse than x-box? ~Darkbaconslayer on N-Gage |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:36:02 PM | Message Detail |
| First
I have to say Ulti will argue with anyone. You're not specially just
because he doesn't flame you, you're just not worthy of his wit. "My point was that you said you didn’t think there were *any* Xenogears haters and, well, you were wrong. I never said the game had a significant hate base, only that there are some of us." Apparently you should go back to the beginning. It clearly states first and foremost "Xenogears has no hate-base worth mentioning." That implies there is the possibility, but it is a non-vocal and insignificantly small group. "Okay, so I suppose the message boards are a *much* better indicator of popularity, then." Cute. But even in your obviously sarcastic statement you still speak the truth in your most forward words. If a game has a real fanbase it's going to have an active board. Hell, Adventure is in the top 50 FAQs right now and you're not trying to argue that that means anything, are you? "But what you said was that it was the boards that hated" I'll say this without holding up three fingers; read between the lines. "You seem to be reading things in my posts that I never actually said" Yes, you're obviously blunt and I shouldn't look for any meaning in your words other than their face value. Unfortunately it seems that means anything that I imply will not be communicated to you. If I must I will speak more plainly and at greater length. Everybody other than smitelf looking forward to that? "No, your sample is too biased (registered users who *also* took the time to look for the poll) for you to make that conclusion." Are you implying that Pokemon fans were too dumb to look for the poll? How is a Pokemon fan less likely to find the poll than a Xenogears fan? Are you implying Pokemon users are too young to register for a GameFAQs account? There is no bias towards one side or another. Some Pokemon fans couldn't find the poll, some Xengears fans couldn't; Some Pokemon fans don't have board accounts, some Xenogears fans don't have board accounts. There is no bias. "...is that I do not believe that most people loved either game are still on their message boards" All you did was: 1) Comment that you thought it would be unusual for them to still be on their respective boards, but more of them are. 2) Used yourself as an example to backup your already flawed opinion. I already have a difficult time believing one person can acurately represent a group, and person who claims that their views alone represent a sizable group is a fool. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:51:30 PM | Message Detail |
| Deep
down, I know I should just stop responding to you because this
discussion has gone far past the point of ever returning to
civility…but damn it, it’s just too much fun! First I have to say Ulti will argue with anyone. You're not specially just because he doesn't flame you, you're just not worthy of his wit. No, it is Ulti who isn’t worthy of *my* wit. I can be twice as egotistical as him if I put my mind to it! Especially when sleep deprived. "My point was that you said you didn’t think there were *any* Xenogears haters and, well, you were wrong. I never said the game had a significant hate base, only that there are some of us." Apparently you should go back to the beginning. It clearly states first and foremost "Xenogears has no hate-base worth mentioning." That implies there is the possibility, but it is a non-vocal and insignificantly small group. Your exact words were: In fact, I don't think it has a hate-base at all. That is the point I was obviously countering. Yes, particulars are important in an argument, Chichiri. "Okay, so I suppose the message boards are a *much* better indicator of popularity, then." Cute. But even in your obviously sarcastic statement you still speak the truth in your most forward words. If a game has a real fanbase it's going to have an active board. Hell, Adventure is in the top 50 FAQs right now and you're not trying to argue that that means anything, are you? Actually, it does mean something: it means that, not too long ago, many people were trying to figure out what the heck it was. That sudden jump was indicative of how very little it was known…not that we needed that piece of evidence to figure it out. "But what you said was that it was the boards that hated" I'll say this without holding up three fingers; read between the lines. Sorry, I suppose I should stop trying to read what people actually write in their posts and instead fly off the handle while misreading them entirely. "You seem to be reading things in my posts that I never actually said" Yes, you're obviously blunt and I shouldn't look for any meaning in your words other than their face value. Unfortunately it seems that means anything that I imply will not be communicated to you. If I must I will speak more plainly and at greater length. Everybody other than smitelf looking forward to that? It’s called communication, Chichiri. If you want people to understand what you’re thinking, you have to tell them, because no one here is a mind reader that I know of. Your posts tend to be somewhat scattered and difficult to read which is why I try not to read into them. I assure you I can pick up hidden meaning in the posts of some of the more eloquent writers on the board. "No, your sample is too biased (registered users who *also* took the time to look for the poll) for you to make that conclusion." Are you implying that Pokemon fans were too dumb to look for the poll? How is a Pokemon fan less likely to find the poll than a Xenogears fan? Are you implying Pokemon users are too young to register for a GameFAQs account? There is no bias towards one side or another. Some Pokemon fans couldn't find the poll, some Xengears fans couldn't; Some Pokemon fans don't have board accounts, some Xenogears fans don't have board accounts. There is no bias. And, as I said, we’ll find out which of us is right tomorrow, so I still don’t see the point of bickering on this topic. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:52:02 PM | Message Detail |
| "...is that I do not believe that most people loved either game are still on their message boards" All you did was: 1) Comment that you thought it would be unusual for them to still be on their respective boards, but more of them are. My point was that it is impossible to tell the strength of the Pokemon lovers vs. the Xenogears lovers based on the number of people posting on their respective boards. Pokemon may have more users posting but that doesn’t mean all that much to me as far as the results of this contest are concerned because neither board represents a large amount of the GameFAQs population and thus neither are a large enough voter demographic to be concerned with. 2) Used yourself as an example to backup your already flawed opinion. I already have a difficult time believing one person can acurately represent a group, and person who claims that their views alone represent a sizable group is a fool. I was using an illustrative example for explanatory purposes, not for proof. I already stated that it is impossible to directly prove anything at this point in time. And, ironically, I agree with you that Xenogears will probably win tomorrow. I just don’t agree on the “why” of it. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 8:54:48 PM | Message Detail |
| "I was giving you an example" Give an unbiased example from someone who isn't you. Your opinion doesn't matter at all. You may not be fanatical enough to hang out at your favorite game's board but that has nothing to do with the here or there of this conversation. " rather I was trying to illustrate that not everyone who really enjoyed a game is measured by the size of its message board" *laughs* Okay, I know you meant to put that in another way, but that came out funny. No, the gameboards don't represent every fan of the game. So anyone who says that the board users makes a small portion of the fanbase is foolish. However, the size of one board compared to another is comparing hardcore fans of one game to another. Where there are more hardcore fans there are generally more casual fans. More hardcore Pokefans should mean more casual pokefans. It's implied. "Uh, well, since this is a *discussion* topic, I was under the impression that giving my opinion was the thing to do." Except that some people forfeit their opinions on a regular basis to analyze the behavior patterns of others. In fact, the idea of this topic is primarily the analysis of voting trends which, I must say, is never affected by a single person without cheating. If a single person means nothing to the subject we analyze then any given opinion means just as much. It's not my opinion that Xenogears and Pokemon fans made up only a small portion of the vote and it's not my opinion that people who were unconcerned with either game favored Xenogears. If I were to specualte how much of the vote was determined by peopel who aren't especially fanatical about either game THEN I'm adding my opinion. "But since there was virtually no “casual” vote in the poll" Casual voters are people who are not hardcore fans of either game. Casual voters aren't automatically assumed to not have a GameFAQs account, they just aren't into either game as much as the "real fans" are. Those are the casual voters, and even with such a low vote count they still made up more votes than the hardcore fanbase did. "Pikachu is not the mascot for the Pokemon games the way Mario is the mascot for Nintendo." Sure he isn't. He didn't get a sepcial edition yellow version of the game dedicated to him featuring him as your starting pokemon. Oh, and there was no "Hey you, Pikachu!" game either. And he wasn't in basically every stage of Pokemon Snap. No sir, Pikachu isn't the headline Pokemon who was featured in both Smash Bros. game (along with Jigglypuff who doesn't have Hey you, Jigglypuff of Pokemon Pink to back him up). Sure, Pikachu isn't well known for Pokemon at all. Beedrill and Mankey are just as popular the world over. Oh, and remember that whole mutually exclussive thing I went over before? The TV show and the game are not mutually exlussive. It's called cross-marketing for a reason, and that reason is because they use both products to sell eachother. "I’m sure there are several but I doubt that there are a large number of them on this site." Just because it's not your opinion doesn't mean it is a non-existing sentiment on this board. Just like hating Xenogears isn't either. It's just small and unimportant, and looking for an argument in conversations not directed towards it. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:10:28 PM | Message Detail |
| "All I have to do is disprove your theory." Then why didn't you? "1) today’s poll showed nothing about the casual vote" Except that casual voters got to vote too. And since they got to vote and still favored Xenogears enough to push Xenogears past the fact that it in fact has the smaller fanbase it also shows that said casual voters favor Xenogears. "2) today’s poll didn’t even show all that much about the registered user vote because even they would have to be looking for the poll underneath" I'd say 85% or so were capable of finding it just like 85% or so were capable of finding the first two matches under the game riot polls. "3) the message boards for each respective game constitutes a very small part of the voters, even registered voters and, as such, I don’t even know why they are being discussed" Because as you said before most of the fans don't hang out on the message boards, but obviously the size of the message board indicates roughtly the size of the fanbase. If only 5% of Pokefans go to their boards you can probably expect only 5% of Xenogears fans go to their boards. "4) Pokemon hate among the casual voters is highly exaggerated" You just said we didn't even get to see the casual vote. Can you make up your mind, or should I ask someone nuetral like Slowflake (the person I originally addressed) to make it up for you? "5) the FAQs are a better way to judge than the Message Boards because more people use them (I never said either was accurate)" But they aren't. FAQ for more difficult games get more views than their are fans. If you have to look at the Pokemon Sapphire FAQ 20 times does that necessarily mean that the Fire Emblem FAQs you looked at 10 times are actually less popular? No, it just means they are re-visited more frequently. And comparing Pokemon's spot on the GB top FAQs to Xeno's spot on the PSX's top FAQs is liek Comparing Dragon Ball Z's rating on Cartoon Network to 24's ratings on whatever network it's on. Sure, DBZ was number 1 in it's day... but that's for a cable channel which is much, much lower in ratings than ANYTHING on network television. The two can't compare, just like GameBoy can't compare to PSX on an RPG heavy site. "6) Pikachu is not a good representative for the performance of his game." Really, you think so? You just stated we haven't seen enough of the vote to be able to tell that, so how do you back it up without contradicting yourself? Oh wait, you don't. Besides, even if the 55/45 split was the final result tomorrow what happens when FF7 crushes Xenogears 80/20? I suppose you'll have to revise your theory. "It’s all opinion until tomorrow" Except that I'm actually analyzing the data we have now. What you have stated is opinion, what I have stated is a theory based on the information we currently have. "And plenty of people around here disagree with you, particularly points #1 and #3. Including CJay, apparently, at least on point #1 – if he didn’t think the casual users mattered then he wouldn’t have stopped the poll today." Except that there was a significant amount of casual voters. The overall ammount is far short of the whole voting populace, but that has nothing to do with how many people were casual players of either game. Oh, and in case you can't read anything for more than its face value, of course I believe the casual voters matter. In fact, it's those casual voters that I'm banking on to hate Pokemon enough to make Xenogears win, just like Slowflake and many other people. But again, casual voters and registered GameFAQs users are not mutually exclussive. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:20:31 PM | Message Detail |
| Sorry Chichiri, anything you post after this I won't be responding to until tomorrow, it's nappy time... Give an unbiased example from someone who isn't you. It's impossible to give an unbiased example. As I said, it was used for illustrative purposes to better explain the point I was making in case it was too difficult to understand the way I had put it. Your opinion doesn't matter at all. You may not be fanatical enough to hang out at your favorite game's board but that has nothing to do with the here or there of this conversation. I never said that it did. Stop getting hung up on little points I never actually made. I never said the fact that *I* myself don't hang out on the Pokemon board is important. Let me put it to you more generally (and bluntly, since apparently even my normal level of bluntness isn't getting through): Most people who play a game and enjoy it do not hang out on its board for years afterward. Judging the support for Xenogears or Pokemon by the size of their message boards is, therefore, inappropriate. *laughs* Okay, I know you meant to put that in another way, but that came out funny. Meh, sorry, sleep deprived and all that... No, the gameboards don't represent every fan of the game. So anyone who says that the board users makes a small portion of the fanbase is foolish. Uh...is it just me and my sleep deprivation or did you just contradict yourself? The twitching in my right eye (sleep deprivation) says the latter but I don't usually trust twitching. However, the size of one board compared to another is comparing hardcore fans of one game to another. Where there are more hardcore fans there are generally more casual fans. More hardcore Pokefans should mean more casual pokefans. It's implied. I dunno, there seem to be plenty of hardcore Earthbound fans to me but I didn't see the love in the polls. "Uh, well, since this is a *discussion* topic, I was under the impression that giving my opinion was the thing to do." Except that some people forfeit their opinions on a regular basis to analyze the behavior patterns of others(...)If I were to specualte how much of the vote was determined by peopel who aren't especially fanatical about either game THEN I'm adding my opinion. So trying to determine how many non-fanatics or "casual" voters are voting in the polls isn't part of analysing the behavior patterns of others in these polls? --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:22:48 PM | Message Detail |
| "But since there was virtually no “casual” vote in the poll" Casual voters are people who are not hardcore fans of either game. Casual voters aren't automatically assumed to not have a GameFAQs account, they just aren't into either game as much as the "real fans" are. However, it is generally assumed that the casual voters make up a larger percentage of those without GameFAQs accounts than those with GameFAQs accounts. Don't shoot the messenger, Chichiri, that's just a general theory around here that I happen to think is reasonable. If you're posting on message boards on a site based in video game land then you're more likely to be an avid supporter of more games than those who come here for general walkthroughs of their flavor of the month game and nothing more. Sure he isn't. He didn't get a sepcial edition yellow version of the game dedicated to him featuring him as your starting pokemon. Oh, and there was no "Hey you, Pikachu!" game either. And he wasn't in basically every stage of Pokemon Snap. No sir, Pikachu isn't the headline Pokemon who was featured in both Smash Bros. game (along with Jigglypuff who doesn't have Hey you, Jigglypuff of Pokemon Pink to back him up). Sure, Pikachu isn't well known for Pokemon at all. Beedrill and Mankey are just as popular the world over. Oh, and remember that whole mutually exclussive thing I went over before? The TV show and the game are not mutually exlussive. It's called cross-marketing for a reason, and that reason is because they use both products to sell eachother. I never said they were mutually exclusive or that Pikachu wasn't being marketed as a mascot for both. What I did say is that he is not *viewed* as the defining Pokemon by most people who have played the game. Do I have proof of this? No. This is another theory which has been widely circulated and has no more or less to back support itself than much of what you have stated. Also, since we are on a gaming website, it is relatively safe to make the assumption that more people here play the Pokemon games than watch the shows. Pretty much all we know for sure is that we're on a gaming website. "I’m sure there are several but I doubt that there are a large number of them on this site." Just because it's not your opinion doesn't mean it is a non-existing sentiment on this board. Just like hating Xenogears isn't either. It's just small and unimportant, and looking for an argument in conversations not directed towards it. I never said it was non-existing, I said it is not likely to be a large sentiment considering where we are. Just because I corrected your error in declaring a certain opinion nonexistent does not mean I was "looking for an argument". I was contradicting what you said, and rightfully so. I didn't want anyone to be under the impression that what you said about a non-existing dislike of Xenogears was true. What you said about there being absolutely NO dislike of Xenogears was factually wrong, which is pretty hard to accomplish. I corrected you. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:28:00 PM | Message Detail |
| "Yes, particulars are important in an argument, Chichiri." The read the whole post if it's so important! "means that, not too long ago, many people were trying to figure out what the heck it was" It also means that FAQ pages are subject to factors other than oh, I don't know, a proportionately sized fanbase. Another factor? Yep, game difficulty. There are factors other than the actual fanbase that determine the popularity of an FAQ, and that being stated makes the FAQ hits absolutely, possitively, without any doubt one thing and one thing only: worthless data. "Sorry, I suppose I should stop trying to read what people actually write in their posts and instead fly off the handle while misreading them entirely." Well, it'd be nice if you at least pretended to have any reading comprehension. "It’s called communication, Chichiri. If you want people to understand what you’re thinking, you have to tell them" Yes, and the ending of games like FF7 are completely spelled out for you. Oh wait, no they aren't, so then... obviously you can't find any deeper meaning in the game because it's not written out for you, right? Oh wait! Some people can. They use the greatest gift they have available to them, critical thinking. People analyze the message put before them because it's not always necessary to write everything out. And if I do stop using my words to their fullest effect I can assure you every post I write will be as lengthy as the ones I have been tonight, and then some. If a simple concept is too hard for you to get when I imply it I will write it out for you, just be prepared to spend as much time reading it as I take to type it. "I assure you I can pick up hidden meaning in the posts of some of the more eloquent writers on the board." I highly doubt that. I'm obviously not eloquent in my writting, which means that the meaning should be much easier for people to get. But you don't. If you can't get the "finer points" of my posts I highly doubt you'd be able to comprehend a writter with any real skill. "And, as I said, we’ll find out which of us is right tomorrow, so I still don’t see the point of bickering on this topic." I don't see why you are either. This is, after all, the result of a message not directed towards you at all. You've butted in and you've not backed down. That being so, why should I either? I could go on, and on, and on, and on with you for days to come. If you doubt me, feel free to ask Ulti whom you have obviously discussed many things with before. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:31:08 PM | Message Detail |
| "My
point was that it is impossible to tell the strength of the Pokemon
lovers vs. the Xenogears lovers based on the number of people posting
on their respective boards." And obviously you know nothing about sample data. "Pokemon may have more users posting but that doesn’t mean all that much to me as far as the results of this contest are concerned because neither board represents a large amount of the GameFAQs population and thus neither are a large enough voter demographic to be concerned with" Which is why I came to the obvious conclusion that casual voters had enough swing to give Xenogears the lead. "I was using an illustrative example for explanatory purposes, not for proof. I already stated that it is impossible to directly prove anything at this point in time." Using yourself as an example exludes the possibility of you ever proving anything. You are not an unbiased sample, you are an example of one small possibility out of hundreds of thousands. I don't care about 1, I care about 100,000. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 9:48:38 PM | Message Detail |
| "It's impossible to give an unbiased example" I'd say 12,000 random voters is rather unbiased. "Judging the support for Xenogears or Pokemon by the size of their message boards is, therefore, inappropriate." Except that both boards make up a percentage of their fanbase. If one has more hardcore support it is likely to have more casual support as well... especially when it's a game like pokemon. "Uh...is it just me and my sleep deprivation or did you just contradict yourself?" Actually I just made a slight typo. It really should have said that anyone who says the number board users implies a smaller number of fans voting is a fool. In other words, Just because the board is only 20-30 people doesn't mean that such a small amount of votes it actually from fans of the game. "I dunno, there seem to be plenty of hardcore Earthbound fans to me but I didn't see the love in the polls" For a game relying on a cult fanbase it did exceptionally well. Merely a testament to how weak Doom really is. Even among RPG fans, Earthbound isn't a real favorite. And Pokemon is no Earthbound. It's hardcore fans should only be a tip of the Pokemon iceberg. But if even that iceburg isn't enough to outweigh the Xenogears fanbase and the Pokemon anti-fanbase out of 12,000 voters why would it, within reason, be enough to win out of 90,000 voters? Really, we saw about 12% of the entire voting public... that's a large sample pool. And anyone who says that the 12,000 voters that did get in are biased is a fool. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that Pokemon fans are less likely to have board accounts. "So trying to determine how many non-fanatics or "casual" voters are voting in the polls isn't part of analysing the behavior patterns of others in these polls?" What exactly have you done in an attempt to determine that? --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:08:14 PM | Message Detail |
| "However, it is generally assumed that the casual voters make up a larger percentage of those without GameFAQs accounts than those with GameFAQs accounts" And it's also assumed that Pokemon is more favorable to casual gamers, but most of the people who still play it are actually rather hardcore. Assumptions are fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean they are the truth. And then, which has happened, if you are assuming on not one but two factors (both that non-registered users are more "casual" and that casual gamers prefer Pokemon) you've gone too far out of the realm of sound theory and into the realm of wild guesses. The current data suggests Xenogears has the advantage, some people are completely throwing that out the window however, in favor of just guessing that for soem odd reason Pokemon fans are inherently less likely to register for an account. "Don't shoot the messenger, Chichiri, that's just a general theory around here that I happen to think is reasonable" I'll shoot as many messengers as I choose, and I don't happen to think that it is a reasonably theory if you assume that casual gamers favor Pokemon. There isn't any pure (as in numerical) data to back any such assumption. You can assume that most visitors are casual gamers, but as stated: you can't assume that casual voters are Pokemon fans before any data exists to prove it. "I never said they were mutually exclusive or that Pikachu wasn't being marketed as a mascot for both. What I did say is that he is not *viewed* as the defining Pokemon by most people who have played the game." But because the two are in fact not mutually exclussive, as you admit, then many people will be lead to see one as being the same as the other because they are so heavily cross-marketed. The two go hand in hand, and the casual people you like to reference often won't see the difference between the two and frankly don't care. On that thought, if they saw an episode of the show once and it was annoying then without having played the game they will assume it too is annoying. The see the show and Pikachu is everywhere, they assume that Pikachu is likewise in the game everywhere. That's a simple assumtion to make for people who haven't played the game, and because of that it doesn't matter if you and I know Pikachu isn't everywhere you look in the games, people will just assume it to be so and vote accordingly. But I did expect you to speak bluntly, as you are a fan of doing, so I assumed when you said that he isn't viewed as the mascot for the game that you meant in general. In general he is viewed that way. Not by people hwo have played the game, but by people haven't. That second group is likel to be larger than the first, and even if it's not it's large enough to make a difference. "Also, since we are on a gaming website, it is relatively safe to make the assumption that more people here play the Pokemon games than watch the shows" That's actually a very unsafe assumption. Most people who hate Pokemon never even play the games. Haters exist among gamers, and gamers obviously come to GameFAQs. Your average GTA fan has probably never touched a Pokemon game in his life yet watched a single episode of the TV show and judges the game off of it. These people exist, don't forget. "Pretty much all we know for sure is that we're on a gaming website" Okay... well, that's true. That is about the only thing we know with 100% certainty outside of the numbers we have already been given. However, I didn't forget where we are having this discussion. |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:08:27 PM | Message Detail |
| "What you said about there being absolutely NO dislike of Xenogears was factually wrong, which is pretty hard to accomplish" I'll repeat myself for about the third time. As I said, said hatebase is increadibly small and unimportant. Yes, I followed that up by saying something to the effect of "I don't think there is a hatebase at all", but that's an exaggerated point to emphasize how insignificant the hatebase really is. That's why it follows a statement clearly saying that the hatebase is small, so that it can emphasize just how pathetically small the Xenogears hatebase is. Again, sometimes I wonder certain concepts are above your sleepy ass. |
| From: Ringworm | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:23:03 PM | Message Detail |
| Too many long posts. Blaah. Xenogears will win again. Enough said. --- Betting: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=13696290 15/17 Next: XG |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:26:04 PM | Message Detail |
| "Xenogears will win again. Enough said." Agreed. Oh, and it looks cooler like "'Nuff Said"... oldschool Marvel comics style. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Heroic Mario | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:28:11 PM | Message Detail |
| Pokemon
will win this match, I`m confident. Trying to tell me otherwise,
however, would be nothing but a waste of time considering I won`t
change this opinion until I see one or the other move one. =) --- Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End "Okay... first the crying... THEN the rage!" - Link |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:29:45 PM | Message Detail |
| Yeah, those first 12,000 votes typically mean nothing... *shakes his head* --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Heroic Mario | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:30:49 PM | Message Detail |
| Whatever you say. --- Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End "Okay... first the crying... THEN the rage!" - Link |
| From: Heroic Mario | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:35:16 PM | Message Detail |
| As
far as I see it, Xenogears had the lead by about 1,000 votes (give or
take some) so it would have an advantage going into tomorrow seeing as
how it was able to stay ahead within the registered voters votes.
Wether or not it can keep this and build off of it we`ll see in less
than 2 hours; however, Pokemon could manage to get those 1,000 votes
and take the lead we`ll see though. You could be right, I could be
right. All a matter of time. =) --- Nintendo® - The Beginning and the End "Okay... first the crying... THEN the rage!" - Link |
| From: Starion | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:39:36 PM | Message Detail |
| Wait
a minute. 12000 votes is an excellent sample but only if the (random)
distribution of the sample was close to the entire voting population.
How do we know for sure it was an unbiased sample? --- Sp2004 Score:16/17 Today's Pick: Pokemon Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:42:43 PM | Message Detail |
| Well,
unless you are willing to go out on a limb and assume that Pokemon fans
are less likely to register for accounts on Gamefaqs then you can
safely assume, within reasonable bounds, that the 12,000 votes
indicates a fairly random sampling. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Starion | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:47:21 PM | Message Detail |
| As
Heroic Mario said, I guess we'll have to wait and see. You may be right
that the difference between registered and unregistered users may be
small. But when you consider that Xenogears didn't exactly build a safe
lead (it even lost a few updates), that small difference could affect
the outcome of this match. --- Sp2004 Score:16/17 Today's Pick: Pokemon Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:49:21 PM | Message Detail |
| Oh,
and mind you, sample data for almost any survey ever conducted outside
of the US Census is either from a much smaller percentage of the whole
or represents a more specific group. Since this is a very large portion
of the "population" at as much as 15% or so of the usual voters,
chances are that it is accurate. Remember, the larger the sample data
the smaller chance their is of a single extreme result altering the
total data. More samples = closer to actual expected results. Besides
the fact that there is no reason to believe that Pokemon fans are
inherently less likely to have signed up for an account there is also
the fact that even some unregistered voters were allowed to vote. Since
this is the case the fact of the matter is... the results were as close
to an honest, random sampling of Gamfaqs users without being a fullout
poll. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 10:57:45 PM | Message Detail |
| Actually,
considering that the votes were about 23-33% of expected number
Xenogears would have had a 3000-4000 vote lead if that poll indicated
clearly how it would turn out if all users could vote. That is past the
point of no return, and if Ceej hadn't have stopped the poll then
Pokemon would have certainly lost. For those number to not hold up
tomorrow we would have to have, as previously stated, the people who
didn't vote before be about 53% in favor of Pokemon. A 15% sample of
this nature would, assuming no extremely irregular result (which, with
a sample this large is unlikely), be considered to have less than 1%
margin of error (how much less is any statistician's guess). It'd
probably be much less, in fact, since polls of 300 are said to be
representative of 3 million within a 5-6% margin of error asumming a
fair ammount of randomness. This being taken from a survey I read taken
in one area in Northern Arizona that was being treated as being
indicative of all of Arizona. If that is statistically true (that 300
people from Flagstaff show the feelings of everyone in Arizona) then
12,000 people that were registered should do a very good job of showing
the feelings of 100,000 people. All things being equal a reversal from
45% to 53% in the remaining voters seems highly unlikely. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Starion | Posted: 4/19/2004 11:01:35 PM | Message Detail |
| Hehe.
You know, national pollsters would kill to have even just a 1% sample
of the total population. What you say makes sense but i'm just
wondering whether this will turn out like the DK-DH match. DK built a
3200+ lead after 11 hours but lost most of it later in the day. --- Sp2004 Score:16/17 Today's Pick: Pokemon Nominate Death for the 2004 Character Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 11:06:42 PM | Message Detail |
| Yeah,
but it's fairly safe to say at this point no one comes back from a
3,000 vote deficit. And if our "false start" is accurate even within 5%
then Pokemon's chances are very, very slim. Well, I'm out for the night. Gotta work in the morn after all. Have fun. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 4/19/2004 11:07:20 PM | Message Detail |
| "Hehe. You know, national pollsters would kill to have even just a 1% sample of the total population." BTW, I love that statement. --- If all Christians acted like Christ, the whole world would be Christian. - Gandhi |
| From: Rage4Life | Posted: 4/19/2004 11:22:26 PM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| From: Rage4Life | Posted: 4/19/2004 11:22:45 PM | Message Detail |
| none of the links seem to work on the stats page for 2004 Spring Contest? Is it like this for everyone else, or I am just dumb and can't cut and paste the right address? |
| From: solarshadow | Posted: 4/20/2004 3:34:50 AM | Message Detail |
| No,
I'm just lazy and haven't added any links yet (well, one). Actually,
replace "lazy" with "busy" (sounds better and is more accurate). I'm
not sure what I'm going to do with that page yet, or when. --- Contest Stats: http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/20/2004 3:52:42 AM | Message Detail |
| Wow. Huge flame war before the match began, and ever since... nothing. Looks like Xenogears is actually winning by much more this time around. But is it just me, or does the vote total look really low? Oh yeah - Best. PotD. EVAR. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 013/017 --- Matches: 13/17 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Xenogears |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/20/2004 3:54:09 AM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| From: mike89 | Posted: 4/20/2004 4:03:25 AM | Message Detail |
| Current
statistics only give us 4200~ votes, and off those Xenogears is already
winning by 1000. Somehow I don't see Pokemon in with a chance, given
the "false start" result... --- What would you do if Robotnik came to your door? Probably "Er, would you fancy going down the pub?" - megadrivechamps |
| From: Haste2 | Posted: 4/20/2004 4:44:38 AM | Message Detail |
| Aw, all that just see the same winner, and now I chalk up a second loss for real. Well, why on earth would the casual visitors like Xenogears more? Nope, I'd say anti-votes are very prominent for them. Not the type of anti-vote where one would blindly vote against someone (though it COULD be possible), but probably most are thinking, "I've never played Xenogears, but I've heard of it, and I bet it's better than Pokemon GSC." --- "Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." |
| From: torey luvullo | Posted: 4/20/2004 4:46:59 AM | Message Detail |
| probably most are thinking, "I've never played Xenogears, but I've heard of it, and I bet it's better than Pokemon GSC." i tend to agree, haste, but i simplify it even further. probably most are thinking "one of the choices is named pokemon, and one isn't. i will vote for the one that isn't." |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:00:20 AM | Message Detail |
| Whoops... I compared with the Donkey Kong votes, not the total votes! Conclusion: Today's vote count is low as hell. We're missing out on tons of votes, probably people who noticed this is the same match as yesterday and think they already voted. The count should grow big in the afternoon though, since the afternoon people knew the poll went down. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 013/017 --- Matches: 13/17 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Xenogears |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:06:24 AM | Message Detail |
| Meh, somehow I didn't think the results would change but I'm still curious to see what happens this afternoon. --- Engaged to MWIS 04/07/04 Current Sp2K4 Score: 17/17, Next Winner: Pokemon |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:23:11 AM | Message Detail |
| First
I have to say Ulti will argue with anyone. You're not specially just
because he doesn't flame you, you're just not worthy of his wit. smitelf, not worthy of my wit? That`s a first. And I`ve toned down "arguing" with people and have reverted back to the way I acted when I first started out on this site back in 1999. I now have "intelligent debates and discussions". --- MIASU! I think im going to mark this topic for being too intelligent for GameFAQs. -Tulidian |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:36:43 AM | Message Detail |
| No,
it is Ulti who isn’t worthy of *my* wit. I can be twice as egotistical
as him if I put my mind to it! Especially when sleep deprived. So I have to act like a total ass before I get your best? And here I am thinking that my recovered respect (save instances of blatant stupidity) for most people was a good thing. And to be 100% serious, I don`t try to be egotistical at all. I`m just very strong with my opinions and try to back them up with facts. That can come off the wrong way, I guess :( But oh, well. This is far beyond the point. This is the part of my post where I get to laugh at smitelf and Sir Chris for picking Pokémon to win this match: XENOGEARS USED I AM THE SUPERIOR GAME WITH ONE OF GAMING`S GREATEST STORYLINES! CRITICAL HIT! POKEMON WAS DEFEATED! <3<3 All in friendly fire and sarcasm like always, smitelf. And why are you always sleep deprived, anyway? You working a full time job to pay for living expenses and school or something? Oh, and before I forget, I apologize if I offended you in that one debate topic. I guess we just have two differing opinions about America *shrug* But hey, I think we handled ourselves well enough. Now, to finally get to the subject at hand. This argument started over whether or not the casual voters make any difference, which I agree with Chichiri on. It doesn`t make a damned of difference in the least, if you ask me. If anything, the voting remains constant from what we saw yesterday. And the other issue here is FAQ hits. They mean little to nothing in this contest. During last year`s Summer 2003 Contest, Vice City was the #1 FAQ for quite a long time, which I`m surprised no one has brought up yet. Did this help Vercetti against Mega Man? Nope. FAQ hits don`t mean votes on the front page. They mean FAQ hits, most of which are directly linked through by search engines. If someone is looking up an FAQ for Pokémon, they aren`t necessarily going straight to gamefaqs` home page. They`re probably more likely to go to Google and type in Pokémon, where they will then be directly linked to an FAQ. And even if they did go to the front page, there`s no guarantee that they`re going to vote in the poll. Personally, I think most of the 4,000,000 hits this site receives per day are from people who could give two ****s about our little contest. --- MIASU! I think im going to mark this topic for being too intelligent for GameFAQs. -Tulidian |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:43:25 AM | Message Detail |
| (Repost...too much Pokemon...too much Xenogears..too much excellent debating going on here!) Well here we go kiddies :) Time for... Steve Illumina Speaks Thats right, the infamous yet humorous commentary is back, to go with all the rest of us here in this, the greatest of threads, the most worthy of postings on this fanboy dominated board. And so it continues, with a hop skip and a jig in the "Golden Age" Division Match XIX (5)Final Fantasy Tactics vs (12)Dance Dance Revolution Steve's Prediction: FF Tactics by 86.6% Steve's Bracket: FFT Newbie's Pick: Britney's Dance Beat Upset Chances: Go do the Macarena! No upsets tonight! Comments: Here we got one of Square's most original and brilliant games against perhaps the last true arcade phenomenon. Not too much to say here really. FF Tactics is well liked by those who played it, and by those who have not that are RPGers, the FF name will be all they need to see. And the contrast in styles here is overwhelming. RPG vs Dancing? Role Playing vs Butt Wiggling? Call it what you will...but in the end, Tactics will do the Locomotion indeed, all over DDR. So who will vote for DDR? Kids maybe? Little girls? Arcade owners who made money off the game? Gee, I dunno. I said 86.6%...but that may be too LOW. Either way, should be the biggest margin of victory ever for a 5 vs 12 match. Get the next one up here! This match is over before it begins. Probable Results: Its not a question of who wins, its by how much. DDR and all its clones and sequels are doomed. Steve's Moments: FF Tactics: Delita...Algus...Wiegraf..oh my! DDR: Ill stick with running, its better for ya and costs less! --- SC2K4: 14/16! Read my Satirical Contest Commentary! Steve Illumina: Standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years |
| From: torey luvullo | Posted: 4/20/2004 5:44:08 AM | Message Detail |
| actually, the accelration of xenogears's lead could end up showing that the "casual vote" was more pro-xeno [or, more likely, anti-poke] than the "site vote". i need to see the rest of the morning tho; xeno's surge and poke's false alarms might just be rearranged. but if poke does not slow the tide at all this morning, that makes this a substantially different match than yesterday's. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/20/2004 6:13:54 AM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 4/20/2004 6:15:06 AM | Message Detail |
| *** COMPARISONS GAME - Match #19 - (5) FINAL FANTASY TACTICS vs. (12) DANCE DANCE REVOLUTION *** Sales A little research and you can find out that DDR nears FFT in Japan. FFT sold 750000 of copies in America... however I can't seem to fing DDR's numbers here, plus there's the arcade intangible. So... - UNAVAILABLE. Franchise Final Fantasy? Strike one, strike two, strike three. That was easy. - Advantage FFT. GameFAQs Status Number of FAQs: FFT Number of reviews: FFT Average review score: FFT Board activity: FFT The arcade DDR board is a "claimed" one, and the PS1 one has one topics with three posts. Meanwhile, FFT is one of the busiest PS1 boards. And this is just a sample of how FFT overwhelms DDR here. - Advantage FFT. Board Odds Project PICKS (out of 102) Final Fantasy Tactics - 98 Dance Dance Revolution - 4 POINT VALUE 19. Final Fantasy Tactics - 164 30. Dance Dance Revolution - 68 The guy who picked DDR to win it all is the only reason DDR isn't rotting at the bottom of the list. Other than him, only three people have it beating FFT, and of these three, one has it beating MGS but losing to FF7. Move along. Oh, and if Xenogears keeps the lead, the BOP stays perfect. Makes me wonder why I went against it four times in the first 15 matches. - Advantage FFT. Summer Contests / Polls of the Day The only interesting element here is Ramza's performance last year... a 58-42 loss to Kirby. Sure, Kirby isn't a pushover, but when you are made by Square and you have Final Fantasy tacked onto the title, one would expect a bit better. But they say Ramza < FFT. Let's see if this is true. Meanwhile, we just can't draw any conclusions. - UNAVAILABLE. Intangibles Between the people who loooooove Final Fantasy and Square (see today's PotD), and those who think dancing games are bleh, there's no doubt as to what this category belongs to. - Advantage FFT. (Huge brain fade caused me to put DDR here for some reason in my first post.) Conclusion: Let's just concentrate on today's match for now, shall we? --- SpC2K4 Status --- Points: 013/017 --- Matches: 13/17 --- Rank: ?????/????? --- Today's pick: Xenogears |
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