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| Spring 2004 Contest |
| Pre-Season Spring 2004 Contest Discussion - Part 2 |
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| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/10/2004 4:05:30 PM | Message Detail |
| 10-20 is very much more than the GameCube. The only three really deserving (not necessarily in my opinion) are SSBM, MP and WW. Ironically enough, these three made it in far, far ahead of the others. Of course if these three games split up the noms in comparison to 10-20 titles for PS2 they're going to get higher seeds. The fact that FF10 managed to sneak through anyway makes it a little frightening. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 5:36:23 PM | Message Detail |
| Before
the holidays, the GameCube was 10-15 points behind the PS2, and just a
few weeks ago we had this poll again... the Cube was suddenly 3-4
points behind. Between September 8th and February 23rd, the percentage of responses under any of the "Yes" or "Soon" categories for "Got Gamecube?" went up almost exactly 7%. That doesn't seem all that significant to me in terms of the contest, where few matches have been won by a margin of 14% or less. In particular, not Mario-Link. Consider also, as Chichiri says, that some of that was undoubtedly caused by the release of a game on the system whose name begins 'Final Fantasy.' But that's not all--in that time period the Cube's price dropped, Mario Kart:DD was released, and that poll was just two weeks ago, meaning a game was just about to be released for the system whose name began 'Metal Gear Solid.' It's hard to say how much of that 7% increase was due to the Zelda collection, and it's hard to say how much of the Zelda collection's appeal was based on the original LoZ (it was just one of 4 games on the disk). All of which, combined with cyko's info on the impressive performance of the SMB3 remake, has me scratching my head on this match again. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 5:41:54 PM | Message Detail |
| I
dunno... I think there are probably a lot more GC titles than that that
were serious competitors. Eternal Darkness comes to mind first, Animal
Crossing, Pikmin, Super Monkey Ball, Soul Calibur 2 (GC version being
the most popular), and Sunshine, of the top of my head. And Billy
Hatcher probably got about half a dozen votes *lol*. I, however,
nominated FF:CC, so that's another possibility... --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ankoku orochi nagi | Posted: 3/10/2004 5:45:16 PM | Message Detail |
| Analyse This: SSB:M vs Vice City. Go. --- *is Ultimaterializer* |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 5:50:47 PM | Message Detail |
| I
don't assume that the Zelda collection was the main push for the
systems sale, and I really won't assume the original Zelda was the most
wanted of the four contained within... however, that doesn't mean it
can't expose the game to someone who has never played it. Really, when
a game is given away for free... the just screams extra exposure... if
they had to pay extra for that disc then it'd mostly only be sought
after by existing fans... *walks away thinking deeply* --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:08:08 PM | Message Detail |
| VC vs. SSBM 1. Both are casual gamer heavy... of course there are plenty of hardcore players who like both, but they are both tailored to gain casual fans 2. SSBM has the highly recognizable Nintendo franchises to back it up making it full of some of the most well known VG IPs in the entire world. VC has... Tommy Vercetti. 3. I don't doubt VC sold more, but I do doubt that the VC fans are less likely to come to GameFAQs. SSBM fans seem to flock here, amoung other places. 4. VC isn't just seeded below Melee but also MP and Wind Waker, even if there is more to be desired from the PS2 it says soemthing when you can't get seeded higher than even one of the GC's reps. 5. Melee is still as popular as it ever was with its fans... VC has long since faded. Melee: 57% --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:12:27 PM | Message Detail |
| Analyse This: SSB:M vs Vice City. Go. Having never played Vice City and having no particular desire to do so, I'm having a hard time convincing even myself that I know what I'm talking about here. I'll keep it short: 1) People who cite SSBM's lasting power as its great advantage are forgetting that GTAVC also has a fair amount of lasting power among its fans. Many seem freely to admit it's just "more GTA3," which to me makes it sound like it was created out of 100% pure lasting power. 2) People who cite GTAVC's casual appeal as its great advantage are forgetting that SSBM has some pretty strong casual appeal as well. Just about everyone likes it, and its multi-player-ness means just about everyone has played it as well. 3) GTAVC will suffer from every single hate-vote Tommy did in SC2K3. 4) Whatever you call the genre to which SSBM belongs, it is not the kind of thing that is popular on this site (fighting? action? platform? multi-player party? No, no, no, and no). --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:14:56 PM | Message Detail |
| 4)
Whatever you call the genre to which SSBM belongs, it is not the kind
of thing that is popular on this site (fighting? action? platform?
multi-player party? No, no, no, and no). Fuuny that even with all that said SSBM is still extremely popular on this site. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:18:03 PM | Message Detail |
| Like
I said, SSBM is extremely popular among almost everyone, as far as I
can tell. However, neither of these games will do squat to sway the
RPG-and-nothing-but-RPG crowd. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:19:16 PM | Message Detail |
| But would VC do it? Well, all this just shows how FF10 is a lock for the Elite 8. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:31:02 PM | Message Detail |
| But would VC do it? No. Who knows how they'll vote? Maybe they'll abstain, maybe they'll start flaming each other about the relative merits of Vercetti's character development and the arrival of Master Hand as a gripping plot twist. The winner is the game which caters to the site's population better, and I'm seeing that as tough to determine. Well, all this just shows how FF10 is a lock for the Elite 8. Or at least the safest choice. Actually, I currently have FFX winning the division for no reason other than it's the only game in the whole bunch I am 100% certain will win 2 rounds. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: Rzrsk8er | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:17:03 PM | Message Detail |
|
Super Smash Bros for the most part has been the number one message
board and top ten FAQs for Gamecube since it came out and it was almost
a launch title. Grand Theft Auto started great but is rarely talked
about anymore. Smash Bros has countless fan sites and still has
tournaments around the country where several players show up and is in
contention to be part of the major league gaming league. I believe most
of you are underestimating SSBM's fan base and i won't be surprised of
it gives even FF 7 a run for it's money. The only matches I have trouble deciding now are Super Metroid vs LTTP (I'm almost positive that Wind Waker will lose to Prime though) and Final Fantasy 3 vs the winner out of those two. The 16 bit division is definitely the hardest to decide. |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:20:57 PM | Message Detail |
| GTA
is just the Mortal Kombat of this era... sure, it's big now because
it's bloody and violent, but come a decade from not it'll be almost
forgotten and often hated. If a game that as no real lasting power and
thrives only on shock value can take two rounds in this contest then I
will find the results of the entire thing suspect. As such, since it is
already moving in that direction, I would deffinately think twice about
supporting GTA:VC. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:48:21 PM | Message Detail |
| That's
a much more varied and competitive field there. PSX has 7, PS2 only has
4 and half of those are ported to other systems. The fact that SSBM
tops a system that is equally competitive with everything else in its
generation is astounding, and with the continal rise of the GC I think
it honestly earned that 2 seed. I know, there is a much smaller selection on the 'cube, but honestly think how many of those PS2 games are worth the title of Best Game Ever. When you think about it there were likely only 10-20 games in serious contention for that spot which isn't that much more than GC. Plus, I'd bet that the RE remakes sucked a lot of votes out of GC too. Okay, so let’s make a list here…feel free to contest my choices, as always… Holy crap, this is going to be a long post(s)… Games in Contest Xbox: Halo: Combat Evolved (1), Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (10) PC: Starcraft (16), Half-Life (13) Dreamcast: Soul Calibur (8), Skies of Arcadia (12), Shenmue (14) Playstation 2: Kingdom Hearts (9), Final Fantasy X (3), Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (7), Metal Gear Solid 2 (15) GameCube: The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (5), Metroid Prime (4), Super Smash Bros. Melee (2) GameBoy Advance: Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (6), Fire Emblem (11) Possible Other Picks/Nominations-Suckers Xbox: The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind PC: Gillions, but most notably Neverwinter Nights, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Grand Theft Auto III, Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, Warcraft III, Deus Ex, Max Payne, Civilization III Dreamcast: Shenmue II, Sonic Adventure 2, Phantasy Star Online Playstation 2: Gran Turismo 3, Devil May Cry, Grand Theft Auto III, Final Fantasy X-2 GameCube: Resident Evil, Animal Crossing, Resident Evil 0, Super Mario Sunshine, Eternal Darkness GameBoy Advance: Pokemon Ruby, Metroid: Zero Mission, Mario & Luigi, Golden Sun, The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past, Metroid Fusion, Castlevania: Circle of the Moon, Advance Wars So, let’s look at each console and the possible contenders, and which games they likely took nominations from: Xbox: Halo is the definitive game for the Xbox. Period. Morrowind is the only one of Xbox’s console-defining games that didn’t get in. I suspect this game’s existence had little effect on Halo but a hugely detrimental effect to the seeding of KOTOR (or, rather, it prevented KOTOR from being as over-seeded as Halo). Considering that there are only two games taking away Xbox votes and one of them is more frequently played on other consoles, the effect of other games on the Xbox in taking away nominations for the two contenders is minimal. In fact, as most would likely agree, the almost complete lack of competition on the console makes the seeding inflated in Halo’s case, as it has virtually no competition whatsoever for the Xbox nomination aside from two non-Square RPGs. Add to this the fact that this is not an Xbox friendly site, and Halo has the #1 nomination, and I think it’s safe to say the seeding is too high for the console. Its match against Starcraft, a 16-seed, isn’t even in the bag. As for KOTOR, it is three seeds lower than a game on a more competitive platform – it has little chance to survive. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:49:46 PM | Message Detail |
| PC:
Considering the sheer amount of PC games and the antipathy to PC games
on this site, it’s a miracle any at all got in the bracket. I know my
list may have some weird selections on it but when it comes to PC games
there isn’t any one contender that was at fault for sucking
nominations; it’s a question of an endless stream of games each
stealing a small portion of the nominations. I’m not going to discuss
Half-Life because there’s just no point considering its first-round
opponent. Starcraft is the interesting one here. As we’ve already
established, Halo’s seeding is inflated due to lack of competition.
Starcraft suffers from the opposite phenomena. With games like Warcraft
III and Civilization III competing with it in its own genre alone, not
to mention the plethora of other games getting nominations, the
competition is so high that the seeding is quite misleading as to its
strength. Even on GameFAQs, Starcraft is well-known. I don’t know how
much it’s loved here but considering the tough climb it had into the
bracket I’d say it has to have something going for it. The
Halo/Starcraft match being so contentious shows just how untrustworthy
the seeding is in this division. Dreamcast: Although there are certainly other games taking nominations from the three entrants, I’d say these three were the biggies. Still, it’s pretty clear that neither of them stood a significant chance of making the bracket; maybe, maybe PSO but on the whole, the big three Dreamcast games had a pretty easy climb into the bracket. Not as easy as Halo but still easy. Discounting all but Soul Calibur as lost causes considering their first-round opponents…it’s competition is a seed lower, yes, but this argument leads straight into the next topic of discussion... Playstation 2: Here’s where the fun starts. There were several massive nomination siphons on this console and games in the bracket that siphoned serious amounts of nominations from others in the bracket of the same genre (and, thus, of a similar voting bracket). Since there are no obvious first-round lost causes aside from Metal Gear Solid 2 and its unfortunate seeding, let’s discuss the rest: Kingdom Hearts – It lost nominations to two games from its own company, namely FFX and its recent sequel (the one that shouldn’t have existed but I’m really going to try to stay off that topic). This isn’t as detrimental for it as it is for other games on its system, however. It has a reasonably comfortable first round match against the most popular Dreamcast game which is only a seed higher. Personally, I’d take a game that lost out only to FFX and Vice City in terms of nominations over the highest-ranked game on a defunct system any day. As discussed, the Dreamcast games were seeded generously. Kingdom Hearts had to work modestly for its #9. Its second round match is against the most seed-inflated game in the contest – or its 16th-seed opponent. At any rate, a 9th seed able to beat a 1st seed is pretty sad but this is due more to Halo’s inflation than Kingdom Hearts itself. Kingdom Hearts may very well be approximately where it belongs, minus a seed or two, by the accident of the balancing act. I see more of a “scrunch” in the top half of the bracket than the bottom. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:51:17 PM | Message Detail |
| GTA:
Vice City – This game is in the top five when it comes to having its
nominations leeched. Look, a top 10 FAQ…with a 7th seed. Huh? Well,
it’s the second best seeded PS2 game, after FFX, which should tell you
something (yet people still think SSBM has a certain win…tsk). This
game lost nominations *everywhere*. Not, in all likelihood, to FFX or
Kingdom Hearts in large portions, but to the other non-RPG favorites on
GameFAQs like Devil May Cry (which, I might add, I was shocked not to
see in the bracket). Gran Turismo 3 (many thought it was a shoe-in for
the bracket, too…I’d point you to the prediction topics if they still
existed) may also have cost it votes. The #1 stealer of nominations,
however, is undoubtedly Grand Theft Auto III itself. If there weren’t a
limit to the number of games per series (namely, one) then this game
would probably have a spot. Let’s not even speak of how frightening it
is for FFVII to have gotten a #1 seed despite competition from FFVIII
and IX in its exact genre. VC is not that kind of powerhouse but it’s
still a far greater force to be reckoned with than its seeding implies.
Maybe it’s even #2 seed material...excuse me while I attempt to
restrain myself from speaking of it…you know which game I’m referring to… Final Fantasy X – Even worse off is Final Fantasy X. This game is one of the top 10 FAQs here and has been since it came out. What in heaven’s name is it doing as a #3? The serious problem that exists in the brackets with Square and Nintendo games is that they siphon nominations from each other. That’s all well and good when they end up fighting one another; it makes it easier to tell where they stand in their own company hierarchies. Square got completely gypped here and it’s the fault of its own games. FFX-2 is reasonably popular enough and, obviously, shares a huge amount of FFX’s constituency, so it was a major problem for FFX’s nominations. Kingdom Hearts, too, has a nearly identical player base, but smaller – seriously, anyone here who played Kingdom Hearts but did not play FFX, raise your hand. Yes, all four of you. Anyway, Final Fantasy X should be the #1 seed. We all know the Halo seeding isn’t legit so let’s talk about the GameCube. GameCube – Let’s see. Three games made it in. They are all from Nintendo’s key 1st-party favorites, and the most popular of all is a conglomeration of all that is Nintendo. Pretty much anything else on the console could be bought for the PS2 but the Resident Evil games remain a major exception. I’d say this series is the only major source of nomination drains for the console. Animal Crossing may also have made a dent though I really don’t see how mass numbers of people would be voting for this game against the likes of Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, and SSBM. Same goes for Sunshine – heck, it goes even more for Sunshine. If you’re a Nintendo 1st-party fan, why would you vote for Sunshine over the superb Zelda and Metroid offerings? Resident Evil I can understand; the fanbase is different. As for Eternal Darkness, it could also be a source of vote drain…but for what? I mean, which game would have an affected fanbase; which game would have been nominated otherwise without Eternal Darkness existing? I don’t see enough of an overlap between the fanbases of Eternal Darkness and the big three Nintendo games. The same goes for Resident Evil. If anything, Eternal Darkness and RE took nominations from each other. In the end, GameCube has three games that are console-sellers, and those are SSBM, MP, and WW. This causes a lesser version of Halo syndrome. Yes, they all have inflated seeding, at least versus their PS2 competitors. Not horrendously inflated, like Halo, but enough to make me question their matches against the poorly seeded Playstation 2 games. Even Kingdom Hearts could deliver a few surprises; I would not be shocked if it beat Wind Waker. I’d be surprised but in a Squall/Luigi kind of way. -- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:51:40 PM | Message Detail |
Of course, one match that is seriously affected is SSBM vs. Vice City. Super Smash Bros. Melee defeated both Metroid Prime and Wind Waker for the #2 seed. That means it is, indeed, popular, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it beat Vice City. All I ask is that everyone take into account Vice City’s position on the top 10 FAQ list and its competition to be where it is in the bracket. In the grand scheme of things, Vice City is simply not a 7th seed. It would rape Halo and FFTA – that already puts it up to a 5th seed. I could most certainly see it beating Wind Waker or Metroid Prime. Vice City should be anywhere from a 2nd to a 4th seed. 7th is ridiculous. Please keep this in mind. The winner is the game which caters to the site's population better, and I'm seeing that as tough to determine. My thoughts exactly. Both are popular and both are a genre unto themselves. Both have lasting power. This match is a ***** and I just hate it when people give SSBM an auto-win. Super Smash Bros for the most part has been the number one message board and top ten FAQs for Gamecube since it came out and it was almost a launch title. Grand Theft Auto started great but is rarely talked about anymore. Smash Bros has countless fan sites and still has tournaments around the country where several players show up and is in contention to be part of the major league gaming league. I believe most of you are underestimating SSBM's fan base and i won't be surprised of it gives even FF 7 a run for it's money. 1) Look at the top 10 FAQ list. Which game is on it? Yes, Vice City. 2) Grand Theft Auto has a new game coming out this year which is getting quite a bit of talk. 3) The SSBM tourneys have absolutely nothing to do with the constituency of GameFAQs. 4) Beat FFVII? That’s crazy. It won’t beat FFX. Then there’s the idea of SSBM being capable of beating FFX. Essentially this is a contest of the most popular Playstation 2 game against the most popular GameCube game. Not even taking franchises into account, the Playstation 2 game will win. As I said, FFX is functionally a #1 seed. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:55:17 PM | Message Detail |
| I've
only read half because I have to go do my tournament right now, but I
want to say one thing before I go: Soul Calibur had to beat out its own
sequel to get into this contest. Just think about that for the 10
minutes or so that It'll take to do the VG Music tournaments and then
I'll be back. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:57:37 PM | Message Detail |
| I've
only read half because I have to go do my tournament right now, but I
want to say one thing before I go: Soul Calibur had to beat out its own
sequel to get into this contest. Soul Calibur 2 was on the Dreamcast? --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 7:58:40 PM | Message Detail |
| Okay, seriously, I have to go now, I don't even want to think about how long that post took me to write... --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:05:47 PM | Message Detail |
| No,
however they are both in the same generation. that being said, Soul
Calibur recieved more votes than Soul Calibur 2. Considering how big
Soul Calibur 2 was last summer, and how people's feelings for a game
tend not to die in 8 months, the first Soul Calibur had a tough little
brother to swirly before it could get into the contest. I actually do
find it amazing since more casual gamers would know SC2 (since DC
wasn't exactly the best sellign system among gfaqs users) and more of
them are likely to vote for SC2 since only the more hardcore fighting
fans would know what makes SC1 the better game... Add the fact that
fighting games aren't generally like around here and its 8 seed is
actually quite impressive. Oh and not one SC has ever gotten into the
SC and *trails on for half an hour* --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:12:51 PM | Message Detail |
| Smitelf's Gamecube theory reminds me: I was really surprised not to see Mario Kart: Double Dash in the contest, and I'm even more surprised to see no one else being surprised at its absence. Wasn't it just last month everyone was singing the prasies for this game? I could have sworn it was as popular as the three 'cube games that got in. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:13:16 PM | Message Detail |
| No, however they are both in the same generation. that being said, Soul Calibur recieved more votes than Soul Calibur 2. Yes, but there was less competition on the Dreamcast than there was on, say, the PS2, where most multiplatform games seem to have the most strength. Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 2 were not competing against each other directly in the nominations. Only one of them could be on the bracket, yes, but considering the competition on the PS2 and the GameCube, and that multiplatform games seem not to make a huge impression on the Xbox, SC2 probably wouldn't have made it in anyway. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:13:32 PM | Message Detail |
| That should be SC character, heh. Sc... Sc... *laughs* to himself* This topic really is making me rethink some of my decisions... but I will stay strong... I'd rather be wrong the first guess than wrong the second guess. And since both are just that, guesses, I may as well keep it how it is. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:19:35 PM | Message Detail |
| Ya
know, it's funny that we keep working under this assumption that
seeding has a lot to do with the nominations... considering how most of
the matches look like setups I really think nominations were used for
seeding obvious games like FF7 while most others were thrown in just to
make the early matches good. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: DomaDragoon | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:22:21 PM | Message Detail |
| Ya
know, it's funny that we keep working under this assumption that
seeding has a lot to do with the nominations... considering how most of
the matches look like setups You mean like Mario/Crono II and Freeman/Payne? I don't know... I mean, it's always a possibility, I suppose. But I just don't see many good examples on the bracket. Anything in particular? --- RPGP/RPGDL Contributor "DragoonJay"; Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) Chanting Monks www.rpgdl.com |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:22:50 PM | Message Detail |
| The seeding probably defines the top 8 games in each division at least. After all, there's no reason to manipulate both
seeds to generate a setup. Something like Mario 64 probably "deserves"
its 7 seed, but NiGHTS was pushed up/down to a 10 to make that match
happen. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:25:58 PM | Message Detail |
| The
seeding probably defines the top 8 games in each division at least.
After all, there's no reason to manipulate both seeds to generate a
setup. Something like Mario 64 probably "deserves" its 7 seed, but
NiGHTS was pushed up/down to a 10 to make that match happen. Yes, I also see that as likely. I mean, yes, there are many setups. I think the top half of the games in a bracket are largely determined by nominations. I wouldn't be surprised if CJay did a bit of manipulation in the top 50% but not enough to make, say, Vice City being a 7th seed make sense. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:40:13 PM | Message Detail |
| I've done this list before, somewhere, but I'll do it again. Round 1 3 - The Legend of Zelda 14 - Adventure 1 - Chrono Trigger 16 - Secret of Mana 1 - Final Fantasy VII 16 - Suikoden II 4 - Metal Gear Solid 13 - Resident Evil 7 - Super Mario 64 10 - NiGHTS into dreams... 4 - Metroid Prime 13 - Half-Life 6 - Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 11 - Fire Emblem 3 - Final Fantasy X 14 - Shenmue Explanations for some of the less obvious/oddball ones: MGS vs. RE - Look at all the other PS1 games... these two are the ones without any RPG elements at all. FFTA vs. FE - The only two GBA games FFX vs. Shenmue - At a time DC vs. PS2 was a fairly big rivalry... though the fate of the DC is obvious we still have the main RPG draw of the PS2 vs. The main RPG draw of the DC (though it didn't really feel like an RPG to me most people would call Shenmue such) Round 2 (these are all possible matches that could be setups in the making) Mario 3 vs. Metroid - the question we keep asking... in proxy. Mario or Samus. Deffinately Mario... PS vs. FF Pong vs. Tetris - Both basically set the world of gaming on fire, and bothe are best described as "puzzle" games. Classics with huge player bases but... who knows how many actual fans... CT vs. Mario RPG - Both came from the end of the SNES, both ar RPGs held in very high regards, and both of them account for the best looking games in the genre on that given series. Plus it's N vs. S to boot (to soem degree, at least) Sonic 2 vs. Mario World LttP vs. SM - Rematch, in proxy, and one Metroid could win....with luck... Earthbound vs. FF3 - N vs. S fo' realz, ya dizzle? (please, some one tell me what I just said...). Same genre, two powerhouses that rival eachother in these contests... FF7 vs. Xenogears - please don't make me expain this one to ya. PD vs. GE - nor this one, though I highly doubt it'll happen. Mario 64 vs. OoT - !!! WW vs. MP - what, Metroid takes on another Nintendo heavy hitter... seems like a pattern to me. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 8:43:04 PM | Message Detail |
| I
think he could have easily justified pulling say a 5 seed down to a 7
seed so he could maybe... set Mario 64 up to face OoT in round 2. If
you look every Nintendo game faces another Nintendo game in rd 2 except
SMW and SSBM. Highly suspicious. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: cyko | Posted: 3/11/2004 4:56:25 AM | Message Detail |
| top-notch
Gamecube games that are missing: Mario Kart: Double Dash, Animal
Crossing, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Viewtiful Joe, Super Mario
Sunshine, Super Monkey Ball, Star Wars: Rogue Leader (not Rebel Strike!
bleh!), and maybe even Pikmin and Eternal Darkness. top-notch PS2 games that are missing: Suikoden 3, FFX-2, GTA 3, Xenosaga, Gran Turismo 3, Devil May Cry, and maybe SOCOM 2 and Splinter Cell. those are all of the elite games i can think of that are even close to being worthy of being in this contest. (in terms of popularity, reviews, and ratings, not my personal opinion.) i'm sorry, but while the PS2 may have a lot more total games than Gamecube, there are easily as many high quality games on Gamecube as PS2, if not more. i honestly think that the Gamecube nominations were a bit more competitive than the PS2 games because some of PS2 upper-class games are genres that aren't that popular on the boards (SOCOM, Splinter Cell, and GT3 for example). for SSBM to get more nominations than all of those games, with that many to choose from, i would say it definitely is an accomplishment. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: masteremerald 2 | Posted: 3/11/2004 5:30:28 AM | Message Detail |
Alright, get this : I'm finally done. All over. I've considered Seedings, the console-strength that influenced seeding, past performances, polls, Gamespy's Contest, the Character Battle, common sense and my own biased opinion. My Bracket is finally over, and this is the first time I am able to look at it without feeling I have to change something. Its by no means a guarantee, but I'm at ease the way it stands. I've also filled out a joke bracket with AlbertPink that is going for no points at all.(The account has been made on a different continent, I briefly played with the thought of making another competitive entry. But that felt so cowardly I dismissed it.) Big thanks to Smitelf for his console-probing posts, Ulti for his polls, Slowflake for being the best Stat-head there is, and finally, everyone that discussed in these topics, including the original creator, Solarshadow. This bracket feels right to me. It really does. Chichiri, you're on. We said we would match our brackets up a long time ago. ^_~ I say I'll land more points then you. I love competition. --- Status of Sir Shake : Warned. |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/11/2004 7:44:53 AM | Message Detail |
| That
was for the SC, but I'm down. I'm confident enough in my picks not to
change them, and being wrong occasionally happens... I'll just lie and
say I'm one point off from the top 50 if it get bad :) But seriously,
it's on. --- "undead pirates with two swords are cooler than Disney" - metroid composite on Kingdom Hearts vs. Soul Calibur |
| From: masteremerald 2 | Posted: 3/11/2004 7:49:06 AM | Message Detail |
Cool. I knew you'd be game. I'm sure we will match up quite nicely. Good luck...seems to be needed for some of 'em. ^_~ --- Status of Sir Shake : Warned. |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/11/2004 7:49:07 AM | Message Detail |
| Ok, my biggest concerns: Division 8: None Really, although Zelda I VS. Tetris has been bugging me a lil' bit. I'm going with my first instinct and choosing Zelda over Tetris, but losing to Mario 3. Division 16: I think that Super Mario RPG VS. Street Fighter II will be interesting, and I have SFII winning. Regardless of who wins, it's only one point, which could mean a lot later on, but I have the winner of this match losing to Chrono Trigger anyway. Also, Super Mario World VS. Sonic 2 has been bugging me some. I also have the winner of this match losing to Chrono Trigger, but a loss here could cost me 2 points. I have Super Mario World beating Sonic. Biggest doubt of the division lays at Zelda: A link to the Past VS. Super Metroid. I have Super Metroid taking it just because, overall, it was a better game IMO, and I believe many others share it with me. SM is also a better Metroid game than LttP is a Zelda game, IMO. Also, whoever wins here, should lose to FF III/VI in my bracket, but it could cost me 2 more points. FF III/VI should then lose to Chrono Trigger. Division 32-64: Yes, I too have doubts about Castlevania: Symphony of the Night VS. Perfect Dark. But, I believe SotN can and will take it. I explained why a few posts back. Sadly enough, SotN should lose to Goldeneye, which in its turn, should lose to Ocarina of Time, which should lose to FF VII. Division 128: The toughest division of all. I have Halo beating Starcraft and Kingdom Hearts, although I'm still thinking about that one. However, whoever wins that match, is going to lose to Metroid Prime, at least in my bracket. Yes, I have MP over Wind Waker. I also think that SSBM will beat Vice City, to create my BIGGEST doubt/concern of the contest. FFX VS. SSBM. I have FFX winning this match, as well as taking down Metroid Prime. BUT, according to my bracket, Metroid fans won't be happy once FF III/VI takes down Super Metroid, and will want revenge. Seeing MP as the last Metroid game left, going against a FF game, things could go the other way. And I think that's all really. Most of the mixed feelings come from the 128 division. I'll compete too, why not... --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 3/11/2004 7:52:43 AM | Message Detail |
| BUT, according to my bracket, Metroid fans won't be happy once FF III/VI takes down Super Metroid, and will want revenge. Revenge. Votes. Do. Not. Exist. --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/11/2004 7:55:43 AM | Message Detail |
| W/e, it would still make MP the last chance for the series to win the contest. --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/11/2004 9:32:08 AM | Message Detail |
| I don't think these "OMG IT'S OUR LAST CHANCE" votes did much to help Link last year, did they? And I'm in the same situation as Shake. I have no matches left that would give me a headache. But I'm still not super-confident on many of them. PS/Contra, DK/Duck Hunt, Earthbound/Doom, Halo/Starcraft, WW/FF10, the BangFang Triangle to name a few. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/11/2004 9:45:24 AM | Message Detail |
| Well, I have the same final 4 you do, except for WW. I have FFX in there, as of now. --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/11/2004 9:47:00 AM | Message Detail |
| That would feel weird if FF10 won. Especially after Ganondorf, not Link, GANONDORF beat a nitro-charged Tidus last year. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Rzrsk8er | Posted: 3/11/2004 1:33:41 PM | Message Detail |
| I don't think you'll have to worry about wind waker facing FFX Metroid Prime will beat Wind Waker and Smash Bros will beat FFX. I'm almost positive about Metroid Prime Vs SSBM happening. |
| From: ankoku orochi nagi | Posted: 3/11/2004 1:39:55 PM | Message Detail |
| I`m
also done with my bracket, and will not change anything. For a little
friendly competition, why don`t we all compare our brackets come the
end of the contest? Between me, Shake, Slow, and Chichiri, this should
be pretty fun. What do you guys say? As for the one match giving me a headache at the moment, that would be Vice City vs Melee. I`m picking Melee, and sticking with it. It just feels right, even though I know the polls would suggest otherwise. --- *is Ultimaterializer* |
| From: masteremerald 2 | Posted: 3/11/2004 1:42:14 PM | Message Detail |
This man knows his stuff. ^^ And what's more, he's almost positive! No more polls, or raw data, or even facts! Now we have..*cue Hercules music* SOOOOOOOOOOOME GUY ! -fans cheer- --- Status of Sir Shake : Warned. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/11/2004 2:43:27 PM | Message Detail |
| LOL, that was funny, Shake. Cruel, but funny nonetheless. And I'm sticking by my guns with WW/FF10. My gut instinct told me that WW had this division easily the second I saw the bracket. Of course it will be harder than I first thought, but my first instinct told me Squall, Shadow, Ramza and Yuna would have very hard-fought victories. I switched all of them, but I didn't switch a single match I didn't hesitate on at first sight. And it damn sure paid off. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Starion | Posted: 3/11/2004 3:39:25 PM | Message Detail |
| I'm
not quite there yet. I still have some uneasiness about some of my
choices. What actually bothers me more is how my picks match the
consensus of most of the board. If I recall correctly, it wasn't
exactly the consensus that placed in the top 10 at the end of both
character contests. If anyone can remember, were the top 10 in both character contests decided by late match-ups? You know, ones that could realistically go either way? --- Spring Contest 2004 - ????? VS. ????? Points - 0/192 |
| From: dethwing | Posted: 3/11/2004 3:41:49 PM | Message Detail |
| I
can't speak to 2002 since I wasn't here then, but in 2003 it was very
tight at the top untill link vs cloud. The last 3 matches basically
determined the top 10. --- Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth--Burlap to Cashmere Spring 2004 Final 4: Mario 3, CT, FF7, FFX |
| From: dethaddr | Posted: 3/11/2004 3:45:26 PM | Message Detail |
| Tell ya now, I bet Xenogears has enough clout to take down the lightning rat and his cohorts. There wasn't too long ago when it was PSM's #2 game of the year... don'tcha read your old mags anymore? I still got mine! ; ) |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/11/2004 3:46:55 PM | Message Detail |
| it wasn't exactly the consensus that placed in the top 10 at the end of both character contests. I was 10th before Link vs. Cloud, and I was running almost solely on consensuses. Now I diverge with it on PS/Contra and the 128 winner, among others. There were half a dozen characters who could reasonably pretend to the crown in 2002. Last year Link vs. Cloud screwed over more than 40% of the brackets. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: cyko | Posted: 3/11/2004 4:20:56 PM | Message Detail |
I can't speak to 2002 since I wasn't here then, but in 2003 it was very tight at the top untill link vs cloud. The last 3 matches basically determined the top 10. yeah, i kept track in 2003 and after Link vs. Cloud, only two people from the Top 50 remained in the Top 50. I`m also done with my bracket, and will not change anything. For a little friendly competition, why don`t we all compare our brackets come the end of the contest? Between me, Shake, Slow, and Chichiri, this should be pretty fun. What do you guys say? hey, what about me, Ulti? =( i want in on some of that action! I was 10th before Link vs. Cloud, and I was running almost solely on consensuses. Now I diverge with it on PS/Contra and the 128 winner, among others. i didn't really rely on the consensuses, but i was tied for 25th place (at number 29) right before the Link vs. Cloud match, where Cloud killed me, too. (btw- my buddy Taco registered my picks under his atomtacozero account since i didn't have a computer at the time and i didn't really expect to win, so i didn't care what account my picks were under and i didn't want to hand out my password. so that's the name that made the top 50, but they were in fact my picks. not that anyone cares, lol. =P ) so, yeah, i'd wager that i will do pretty well this time, too. right behind Slowflake again, lol. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: Ngamer64 | Posted: 3/11/2004 4:29:23 PM | Message Detail |
| Hm...
Got to admit I don't quite understand where this talk of CJay
influencing seedings is coming from. In his explaination, he promised
that 99% of the way the bracket looked, we were responsible for. I
seriously doubt that he switched things up in order to try and create
neat matchups... Mario 64 makes sense to me as a 7 seed, I don't see
where he would have had to raise or lower that in order to put it up
against Nights. I don't think he did anything, other than to keep out
FF8, and perhaps something like GTA3. --- the-elite.net Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://geocities.com/cyber1166/gamefaqs |
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