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| Spring 2004 Contest |
| Pre-Season Spring 2004 Contest Discussion - Part 2 |
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| From: solarshadow | Posted: 3/9/2004 4:56:23 AM | Message Detail |
| I
think in most cases, there will always be a few people who may not know
what happens to the games. I see this all the time whenever I visit an
older game's board. Anyway, what is so difficult about placing a
spoiler warning in the topic title? Oh, I'm a big fan of spoiler warnings, don't get me wrong. I'm just wondering if there's a practical limit. You know, a point where everyone who was interested in a game already knows about it (if you didn't play FFVI at some point in the last decade, do you really care if I tell you what happened in Thamasa?). I mean, if I haven't seen Star Wars by now, you might as well go ahead and tell me who's related to whom. *Star Wars spoilers!* Darth Vader is Luke's father (and Luke kissed his sister!). Actually, Star Wars is a good example. Think of how many times you hear reference to the line: "Luke, I am your father." It's just become common knowledge to be familar with Star Wars' plot (much like Aeris' scene). --- Contest Stats: http://solarshadow-stats.tripod.com |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 6:19:15 AM | Message Detail |
| Anyway, what is so difficult about placing a spoiler warning in the topic title? It’s not difficult, it’s just a waste of time to put a spoiler warning for things like *SPOILER FOR FFVII* * * * * * Aeris’ death billions of times. I’m sure the amount of spoiler warnings I’ve typed for that alone add up to at least an hour of typing. As solarshadow said, there should be some kind of cutoff date, maybe five years or something. Zelda goes down to Tetris, as while Zelda was good, Tetris is arguabally the most well known game of all time. In the finals, I took Tetris as an upset pick, as I think there will be enough anti-Mario people to help out the "Scorpion" of the tournament. Damn, it never even occurred to me that Tetris could take down Zelda. I mean, it won’t take down SMB3, but Zelda…I can kind of picture it. I’m still betting on Zelda but it would be a nifty surprise if Tetris took the match. The GF boards, and the fanboys. There are more FF Fanboys then CT ones, barely, and FFVI outranks CT in both the FAQs and the Board listing, thus, FFVI will barely edge out CT. There are significantly more CT fans than FFVI fans on this site, I believe. The fact that CT got the #1 seeding should tell you something, and as I’ve said in the past, the seedings appear to be very reasonable in the first two divisions, where the opinions of the board’s users doesn’t diverge too significantly from that of the voting public, Earthbound aside. In my upset of the tournament, FFT takes out FFVII. I’m not even going to dignify that with an answer. Until the release of The Sims, Starcraft was the best selling game of all time You mean PC games, right? SSBM will not have an easy time, but shoudl be able to beat MGS2 *very hated game*, GTA:VC *proven before to not be as big as it seems* No, VC’s main character was proven to suffer from Gordon Freeman syndrome. and FFX *2nd worst of the FF games, behind 1* going down. Whether or not it was the second worst FF game (I happen to believe it to be the best), it’s the third most popular on this site, behind the legendary VII and VI. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:11:32 AM | Message Detail |
| Funny
how so many people underestimate the NES Zelda. The game was the first
million seller EVER, and besides that we all kno that Zelda is one of
the most popular games on this site. No, I can't possibly see any of
those games taking down Zelda other than Mario 3, and even at that I
feel an uneasiness. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Phediuk | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:12:52 AM | Message Detail |
| The game was the first million seller EVER Uhh...not even close. --- "Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle." -Toad in Super Mario Bros. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:25:58 AM | Message Detail |
| Don't worry about Tarrot, Smitelf. If he gets anywhere near 100 points, he's my new god. Promised. Besides, I expect LoZ to beat Tetris in the most horrible third round blowout of this contest. It might or might not be of Jill/Link proportions, but this is the match Tetris can't win. Come to think of it, Tetris is really lucky to have such a piss-easy 4-pack. FFT beating FF7? Whoa, even FFT beating MGS sounds like a longshot to me. Now, we're having a little discussion about spoiler warnings, and I just wanted to toss my two cents into the fountain. We all know how SSBM spoils OoT as to who Sheik is, right? In that aspect, should there still be spoiler warnings for that, as well as other spoilers that are spoiled in other games? Should have Nintendo put a spoiler warning on Zelda's down+B? (That last question was a joke if you didn't figure it out.) --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:33:43 AM | Message Detail |
| "Zelda1 became the first stand alone game to sell in over 1 million copies " source: http://www.angelfire.com/ne/Gamewarriors/Nhistory.html --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:41:11 AM | Message Detail |
| "The Legend of Zelda becomes the first NES game, besides Super Mario Bros., to sell over one million copies." http://www.gamecomplex.com/rareshooters/specials/special2.shtml and don't forget, Mario was a pack-in, so who knows how many it'd actually have sold if it were not... --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:44:52 AM | Message Detail |
| It doesn't matter how popular they once were, NOW matters. And I don't think any NES title can stand up to SMB3 NOW. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: metroid composite | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:47:56 AM | Message Detail |
| There
are significantly more CT fans than FFVI fans on this site, I believe.
The fact that CT got the #1 seeding should tell you something, and as
I’ve said in the past, the seedings appear to be very reasonable in the
first two divisions, where the opinions of the board’s users doesn’t
diverge too significantly from that of the voting public, Earthbound
aside. The reason is they're all from the same system mostly (SNES). Earthbound would beat most games below it (though admittedly not the #8/#9 seeds either) just not all system were treated equally in nominations, so Doom got underseeded (it had to compete with PC games from all eras). Being off by one or two seeds like Earthbound is is nothing too special; most people seem to predict a LttP win over Super Metroid, despite the 6/3 seeding for instance. --- Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:48:27 AM | Message Detail |
| Really? And 2 years ago you (or at leas most people) wouldn't think that Link could beat Mario in a characters contest... --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:50:36 AM | Message Detail |
| Link had odds that were right up there with Mario's. And might I add, that post above yours was pretty spot on. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:52:17 AM | Message Detail |
| Right up there still means Mario had 50% more backing than Link, however. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:55:10 AM | Message Detail |
| Come
on, you know well that a half-dozen characters could logically pretend
to that crown the first time around, and most knew it. Except the Snake
fanboys. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:09:22 AM | Message Detail |
| Well...
those Snake fanboys are pretty funny, but if what we knew before the
contest started had any real bearing on how it ended Mario would have
take than finals in a 60/40. We've already seen that Link can beat
Mario, and beat him soundly. Now what are we talking about... Link's game vs. Mario's game. That being said we already know who has the advantage, so it comes down to whether or not Mario 3 is better than Mario himself, or if Zelda is far bellow Link. The second is almost guarenteed to be untrue, the 3 seed says so. Even if the original Zelda is the weakest of the ones in the contest (despite being the second highest seeded) we know the Zelda series is more popular than the Mario series here at gamefaqs, the appearance of a Zelda game for every generation says so. So will Mario 3 be treated well because its a good game, or will Zelda fanboys stand behind their favorite series despite the possibility that it may not be deserving (but it is, the original zelda is awesome). Knowing gamefaqs, which of those is more likely to be true? And you thought you could count Zelda out.. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: metroid composite | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:25:22 AM | Message Detail |
| but
if what we knew before the contest started had any real bearing on how
it ended Mario would have take than finals in a 60/40. I certainly heard predictions of a Sephiroth/Cloud final from a very intelligent poster (NeoElfboy) purely based on RPGs requiring more FAQs. Granted, that didn't happen in the first contest (only when KH gave them a popularity boost in the second). Again from NeoElfboy, I heard predicted that he didn't think Mario would go all the way, based purely on everyone seems to like Mario games, but "name your favourite game" topics produced very few of his games; people just weren't as passionate about him, even if they were more unanimous about his games being fairly good. --- Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:29:43 AM | Message Detail |
| That
is the problem with Mario... his games are good, but most people aren't
fanatical supporters. Most of the people who say with certainty that
Mario 3 will take its division don't necissarily even like Mario 3,
they are just blind to the potential of some of its competition. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Ngamer64 | Posted: 3/9/2004 9:36:11 AM | Message Detail |
| Well,
it would appear that the Final Four topic has finally died out at
around 120 legit predictions. So I'll update the counters with what I'm
going to call the Final Results. And this time I'll add total
prediction percentages for the division favorites. Final Four Predictions Classic Division 1. Mario 3 - 104 (87.39%) 2. Zelda 1 - 8 3. Final Fantasy - 6 Golden Division 1. Chrono Trigger - 82 (68.91%) 2. Link to the Past - 18 3. FF3/6 - 11 4. Super Metroid - 5 5. Mario World - 2 Platinum Division 1. FF7 - 73 (61.34%) 2. Ocarina of Time - 44 Modern Division 1. Smash Bros. Melee - 39 (32.77%) 2. FFX - 32 3. The Wind Waker - 15 3. Metroid Prime - 15 5. Vice City - 10 6. Kingdom Hearts - 3 7. Halo - 2 Some rather significant changes since last update, the biggest of which would have to be the huge push by Final Fantasy X. What was once a commanding division lead by Melee has shrunk to only a thin margin. Also in that division, Wind Waker picked up enough votes to draw to a dead heat against Prime, setting up by far the best 2nd round matchup of the Contest. Vice City also did well for itself, helping to cut into what had been a much better-looking total for Melee. The 32/64 bracket looks largely unchanged, but there was some interesting movement farther up. Once again, we saw Final Fantasy picking up steam, with the original pulling within a couple votes of NES runner-up, while FF3 came closer to matching A Link to the Past for #2 in the SNES era. Is this a sign of things to come? Or is it perhaps a case of the more enlightened voters posting their predictions early, leaving the more fanboyish of users to make their guesses afterwards? Very interesting... --- the-elite.net Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://geocities.com/cyber1166/gamefaqs |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/9/2004 9:38:43 AM | Message Detail |
| Also
in that division, Wind Waker picked up enough votes to draw to a dead
heat against Prime, setting up by far the best 2nd round matchup of the
Contest. So were Dante's round 2 matches. Hehe. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Shadow Doom Blaze | Posted: 3/9/2004 10:06:15 AM | Message Detail |
| I`m still the only one picking Vice City to tak down Melee? That sucks. --- *is Ultimaterializer* |
| From: dethwing | Posted: 3/9/2004 10:23:38 AM | Message Detail |
| No, you're not. I am also picking Vice City to make a sweet 16 appearance. 1. GTA3 beat Melee when both were new. 2. VC is nearly unanimously praised for being better. 3. VC lost to metroid prime by only a tiny margin. --- Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth--Burlap to Cashmere Spring 2004 Final 4: Mario 3, CT, FF7, FFX |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 10:26:47 AM | Message Detail |
| Besides,
I expect LoZ to beat Tetris in the most horrible third round blowout of
this contest. It might or might not be of Jill/Link proportions, but
this is the match Tetris can't win. Come to think of it, Tetris is
really lucky to have such a piss-easy 4-pack. I agree with all that you said (except it won’t be a blowout of monumental proportions; Tetris is more popular than you may think) but I’d still love it, personally, if Tetris did win. I’ll be voting for Tetris all the way until it comes up against Starcraft…*smirks*… Now what are we talking about... Link's game vs. Mario's game. That being said we already know who has the advantage, so it comes down to whether or not Mario 3 is better than Mario himself, or if Zelda is far bellow Link. The second is almost guarenteed to be untrue, the 3 seed says so. Even if the original Zelda is the weakest of the ones in the contest (despite being the second highest seeded) we know the Zelda series is more popular than the Mario series here at gamefaqs, the appearance of a Zelda game for every generation says so. So will Mario 3 be treated well because its a good game, or will Zelda fanboys stand behind their favorite series despite the possibility that it may not be deserving (but it is, the original zelda is awesome). Knowing gamefaqs, which of those is more likely to be true? You make a good point but I think we have to be careful about overanalyzing the match. I’m sure I could come up with some good arguments for Tetris winning its division. The real issue here isn’t Zelda’s popularity but rather that of SMB3. We know that Zelda in general is popular; what we need to ask is whether SMB3 is still an untouchable classic of its age; not necessarily whether it’s more popular than Zelda but whether it is more respected than Zelda. Respect is what it’s going to come down to in Division 8; face it, a lot of the voters have never actually played most of the games in that division. That is the problem with Mario... his games are good, but most people aren't fanatical supporters. Most of the people who say with certainty that Mario 3 will take its division don't necissarily even like Mario 3, they are just blind to the potential of some of its competition. No, that is SMB3’s advantage. If most people on the boards are blind to the potential of a Zelda upset, then it is safe to assume that most people voting, period, are blind to it, as well. This goes along with my last point: word-of-mouth is going to be the main supporter of any game in Division 8. They’re all just too damn old, with the possible exception of Tetris (but even then, who’s going to be voting for the Atari version?). This is a tough (and significant) match. Zelda has the name brand advantage, which SMB3 has to a lesser degree here on GameFAQs, but does the original Zelda have enough of the Legend Factor to carry it through? I sure can’t answer with all certainty, especially not now. My gut tells me to go with SMB3 for the moment. I just can’t see such a classic going down, even to another classic. Some rather significant changes since last update, the biggest of which would have to be the huge push by Final Fantasy X. What was once a commanding division lead by Melee has shrunk to only a thin margin. Also in that division, Wind Waker picked up enough votes to draw to a dead heat against Prime, setting up by far the best 2nd round matchup of the Contest. Vice City also did well for itself, helping to cut into what had been a much better-looking total for Melee. Hopefully this is due to more people seeing that the SSBM hype is just that – hype. I am increasingly sure that FFX, at least, will defeat it, and I currently have it losing to Vice City. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: Cromage | Posted: 3/9/2004 10:56:31 AM | Message Detail |
| VC is nearly unanimously praised for being better. Proof. Now. A general rule that bears watching (especially with competitions like SMB3 vs Zelda or SSBM vs Metroid Prime/Wind Waker): If a game is seeded higher than another game on the EXACT same system, the higher-seeded game will likely win in a direct match--at least, if Ceej's been telling us the truth about the seedings. And the exceptions: Mainstream vs Select: If a not-so-popular game is the higher seed, it's possible that the "selective" nature of the contest is what's responsible. The high seed then could easily crash and burn. Split fanbase: If three or more games are contenders, and two of the three are similar (same type genre, gameplay, company, etc), then the two will compete too fiercely, and receive lower seeds as a result. Of course, it may be prophetic that despite the HUGE Square splits (Chrono Trigger vs FFIII vs SMRPG vs the other FF's that were barred from entering), it still claimed the two top spots. --- http://crolapras.tripod.com/archivist.html ~Archivist of the SC2k3 board..... a year late. |
| From: VideoboysaysCube | Posted: 3/9/2004 11:17:26 AM | Message Detail |
| What do you guys think about the possible CT vs. LttP and Lttp vs. Mario 3? --- This sentence has five words. This sentence has eight words. Exactly one sentence in this signature is true. |
| From: metroid composite | Posted: 3/9/2004 11:19:08 AM | Message Detail |
| That
is the problem with Mario... his games are good, but most people aren't
fanatical supporters. Most of the people who say with certainty that
Mario 3 will take its division don't necissarily even like Mario 3,
they are just blind to the potential of some of its competition. You forget; Mario outstripped Elfboy's expectations in the first tournament making it to the finals, and in the second tournament still lost to a finalist. Furthermore, SMB3, as shown by polls on this site, is still easily the most popular Mario game. In addition, Division-8 is by far the weakest Division overall; Sega's weakest division, Square's weakest division, Konami's weakest division, probably the weakest Zelda, and the weakest of the three Metroids.... -- 1. GTA3 beat Melee when both were new. Melee has aged better due to the "doesn't get old" factor, and has SSB recognition from the N64. Furthermore, At the time of the poll, GameFAQs ownership was PS2:63%, GC:36%. As of more recently it's PS2:74%, GC:67% so the consoles are fighting on more even ground. 2. VC is nearly unanimously praised for being better. It...is? *checks GameFAQs reviews* actually looks like SSBM is praised ahead of VC more than half the time. 3. VC lost to metroid prime by only a tiny margin. And you'll notice that SSBM got a higher seed than Metroid Prime, and thus is presumably stronger. -- Hopefully this is due to more people seeing that the SSBM hype is just that – hype. I am increasingly sure that FFX, at least, will defeat it Yeah, it probably will. PS2 is still the strongest competitor on GameFAQs. PS2's star game beats GC's star game *shrug* --- Cats land on their feet. Toast lands peanut butter side down. A cat with toast strapped to its back will hover above the ground in a state of quantum indecision |
| From: VideoboysaysCube | Posted: 3/9/2004 11:27:50 AM | Message Detail |
| I'm
becoming more and more unsure about Melee and Vice City. At first I
thought melee would win, then I thought about it a lot and then thought
vice would win, but now I'm unsure again. Perfect Dark and SotN is another I'm thinking about a lot. At first I was leaning towards PD but now I'm leaning towards SotN...My head hurts from so much thinking. --- This sentence has five words. This sentence has eight words. Exactly one sentence in this signature is true. |
| From: dethwing | Posted: 3/9/2004 11:29:44 AM | Message Detail |
| Ah. I see my mistake. I meant VC is usualy said to be a better game than GTA3. Not SSB:M. Sorry for the confusion. --- Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth--Burlap to Cashmere Spring 2004 Final 4: Mario 3, CT, FF7, FFX |
| From: red sox 777 | Posted: 3/9/2004 1:03:00 PM | Message Detail |
| What do you guys think about the possible CT vs. LttP and Lttp vs. Mario 3? I have CT over LttP. I have some qualms about this pick, because LttP is Zelda, after all, but that CT can take Seed #1 even with competition from FFVI, while LttP got a 6 seed, behind Super Metroid and Super Mario World, makes me pick CT. Still, I would not be surprised if LttP won. As for LttP vs. Mario 3, I think LttP would win. It is the second favorite Zelda, part of a series that is quite a bit more popular than Mario on this site. SMB3 may be the fan favorite, but it is 14 yrs. old, 3 generations removed from the present. Further, Yoshi vs. Bowser proves that being the fan favorite on a poll outside of the Summer/Spring Contest is not necessarily an accurate portrayl of how well it will do during a contest. I don't think that SMB3 will actually be that much stronger than SMW, not strong enough to take LttP. For CT vs. SMB3, this is my reasoning: CT > Crono Mario > Any 1 Mario Game The Difference between CT and Crono + The Difference between Mario and Any 1 Mario Game > 0.05% Thus, CT > SMB3 Still, Crono vs. Mario matches seem to defy all logic. Based on the Final Four Topic, among other things, it is looking like there will be no dominant favorite among brackets this year, like Link was last year. Of course, any board topic is not a wide enough poll to make that determination, but I would expect the board to provide a higher percent of brackets than votes, and in turn a higher percent of "serious" brackets than brackets. --- Red Sox Magic Number to To Win World Series: 164 Oh, Mario vs. Crono? Not a question of whether Mario will win or not, but HOW. - Slowflake |
| From: FastFalcon05 | Posted: 3/9/2004 3:02:25 PM | Message Detail |
| Not
to be, I don't know, a "goodie-goodie" for supporting the ToS, I can
really understand the reasoning for the spoler rule. I know the
discussion of this stopped a page or so ago, but I don't think the rule
really hurts anyone, and think how much it could really ruin a
game/movie. Even if you know nothing about the game, chances are that
one thing you heard about the game, you'll always remember, and when/if
you finally play the game, it really takes away from it. And, yeah, I
never played FF7 its on my to-do list. I didn't mark you or anything, I
wouldn't do that, but I dunno, if it were me having something ruined, I
would hate it. But, aside from that, I noticed before that someone had said some people hadn't played SMB3 cause it was too old. Well, why some people may have not played the game for other reasons, being old shouldn't be one of them. It was on the SNS, and its also currently on, (and selling well, anyone know?) for the GBA. --- Was nokia trying to prove that something can be made worse than x-box? ~Darkbaconslayer on N-Gage |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 3:38:05 PM | Message Detail |
| smitelf,
you forget that the board does not equal gamefaqs. While many people
here may miss the potential of all 8 bit competitors other than Zelda
and (of course) Mario 3, that doesn't mean that the voters will forget
when two games og head to head. Tetris honestly could win that
division, but I don't see it happening. Zelda, on the other hand, I
could see winning. Yes, I'm one for safe bets, so I have Mario 3 going
to the final four... but unlike many other people I wouldn't be
surprised if it didn't happen. And yes, the original Zelda is
legendary. As already stated it was the first video game to ever sell 1
million copies (I don't count pack-ins because those are simply given
away) so it was loved in its day and the popularity of Zelda now proves
it still is. That IS what makes a legend, isn't it? --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 4:36:53 PM | Message Detail |
| smitelf, you forget that the board does not equal gamefaqs. No, I don't forget that. Many of my arguments are based on that fact. While many people here may miss the potential of all 8 bit competitors other than Zelda and (of course) Mario 3, that doesn't mean that the voters will forget when two games og head to head. Yes, it does. If the people here can't see it, and they are generally more knowledgeable about games than the general voting public, then I don't see how the mass of voters are expected to see anything other than "oooh, look, SMB3, I've heard of that one, it's supposed to be really good" and vote for it. Tetris honestly could win that division, but I don't see it happening. Zelda, on the other hand, I could see winning. Yes, I'm one for safe bets, so I have Mario 3 going to the final four... but unlike many other people I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen. I wouldn't be surprised, either. I still have SMB3 on my bracket, though, because I think it has more of the Legend Factor going for it. And yes, the original Zelda is legendary. As already stated it was the first video game to ever sell 1 million copies (I don't count pack-ins because those are simply given away) so it was loved in its day and the popularity of Zelda now proves it still is. That IS what makes a legend, isn't it? I never said Zelda wasn't legendary, I only said that SMB3 is moreso. That would be why it has the number one seed. I was just commenting that, due to the known difference in popularity between Zelda and Mario, Zelda would have the series advantage to begin with. Therefore, the real question is whether SMB3, one of the most well-known games in this contest, can beat the original Zelda based on qualities that it and it alone has among the Mario games in this contest, such as The Legendary Factor, as I am dubbing it. I believe it can, for now, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if this match proved interesting -- in fact, a blowout in either direction would shock me. I can't say with certainty that SMB3 will win but I'm betting that it will. We all have to pick our horse eventually. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: creativename | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:36:56 PM | Message Detail |
| It doesn't matter how popular they once were, NOW matters. And I don't think any NES title can stand up to SMB3 NOW. Well, yeah...but needless to say, there is a pretty decent correlation between how people feel now about games, and how people felt then. Not that great, but decent. Thing is, if this was about how people felt then, this would be not contest at all: SMB3 would destroy LoZ utterly. It would not be remotely close. SMB3 was so uber-popular it's disgusting. I mean, c'mon, it sold 18 million freakin' copies. Now, many years later, LoZ should give it some sort of challenge. I don't see it getting less than 35% of the vote; I think it's unlikely it'll get less than 40%; and I think it has an outside shot at winning. Back in the day, right after SMB3 came out, it's a total blowout in favor of SMB3. But as smitelf said, now, it's more a question of "respect" rather than sales/popularity: Legend of Zelda is a very well-respected game, and I don't think too many people expect it to get PWNed or anything like that. Anyway, it's clearly not all about sales, because Super Mario World sold a stupendous 17 million copies; yet, it is a heavy underdog in its own division, and only the 4th most nominated game on its own console. That fact alone makes me hopeful that LoZ can take down SMB3. SMB3 is not invincible. (I hope...) --- Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4! |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:42:06 PM | Message Detail |
| Since
you say you remember well that the board doesn not equal gamefaqs then
you must be aware that most of the voters aren't predicting, so they
can't be blind to any Mario 3 alternative... when soemthing goes head
to head with Mario 3 they will either vote for it or not. It's not like
they are voting for Mario 3 before looking at what its opposition is.
WE might not see what could beat Mario 3, but when it's against a
formidable game and the two are lined up next to eachother everyone is
going to see it. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:53:19 PM | Message Detail |
| Since
you say you remember well that the board doesn not equal gamefaqs then
you must be aware that most of the voters aren't predicting, so they
can't be blind to any Mario 3 alternative... How many brackets were there last year? Anyone got a number on it? when soemthing goes head to head with Mario 3 they will either vote for it or not. It's not like they are voting for Mario 3 before looking at what its opposition is. WE might not see what could beat Mario 3, but when it's against a formidable game and the two are lined up next to eachother everyone is going to see it. Well, that is what happened with Squall v. Luigi, isn't it? I've already said that I don't completely discount the possibility of Zelda winning but I also think the #1 seed is significant in such an elderly division. That's the main point to focus on, if you ask me. Add to that the fact that SMB3 has more of a legendary "aura" around it than Zelda (and, let me add again, I'm not saying Zelda isn't legendary, just that SMB3 is moreso) and I think SMB3 has an advantage. Mostly the 1 seed, though, really, in this kind of reputation-based division. I'm sure you'd admit, Chichiri, that most of us are too young and weak-minded to have witnessed first hand the greatness that most assuredly was Zelda. I will restate for the nth time that this match does worry me and it won't be a blowout for either party. Still sticking with SMB3. It's safe, and I'm Canadian anyway. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:55:03 PM | Message Detail |
| I'm
sure you'd admit, Chichiri, that most of us are too young and
weak-minded to have witnessed first hand the greatness that most
assuredly was Zelda. Thats some sort of trick, isn't it? :) :) :) --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 7:58:06 PM | Message Detail |
| Thats some sort of trick, isn't it? :) :) :) Would I do a thing like that? *waits to ambush* --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:02:15 PM | Message Detail |
| I'm
not sure about that whole "respect" thing. I suspect that the average
voter who has played neither game will simply vote along series lines,
i.e., vote as they would in a "Legend of Zelda series vs. Super Mario
Bros. series" poll. And all evidence points to this being heavily in
favor of Zelda. Remember, this is exactly why Contra vs. Phantasy Star
is tough to call. Therefore, what I'm most wondering about this matchup is: how much of the population of this site has played neither game? One but not the other? Both? I think that may well decide the winner. Emulation, of course, is the key issue in this argument. I sincerely hope all of us old enough to have owned a NES have played both games, but what about the rest? If you had only played Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, Zelda:OoT, Zelda:MM, and Zelda:WW, would you be more inclined to check out old Mario games or old Zelda ones? What if you had also played SMW, LttP, and possibly SMW2? What if you had only played SMS and LoZ:WW? How many people would download ROMs of either SMB3 or LoZ based solely on the fact that they are famous? How many younger voters have NES emulators at all? Just some food for thought. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:02:19 PM | Message Detail |
| Sometihng makes me think you would... you odd talking bush. I'm pretty sure I'm not on any drugs, either... --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:09:51 PM | Message Detail |
| SMB3 was also rereleased on GBA and LoZ on GC... they have been rexposed to the newer generations. Do they still give the Zelda Collectors Disc with a GC? Because if they do, Zelda could have a sizable advantage there... according to one of my friends both the local Target and Super Wal-Mart recently sold out of Gamecubes. This is in the middle of Arizona mind you, and such a shortage is increadibly odd. It seems that the GCs sales really have spiked recently, and perhaps GC is in contention with the PS2. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:17:53 PM | Message Detail |
| Ah,
that's true about the remakes, I had forgotten all about that. Funny,
since I think that was my basis for picking LoZ a week ago, and I know it was my basis for predicting Link to win in SC2K4. Did the SMB3 remake for GBA sell well? I know there was a lot of talk on the boards about the Zelda collectors' disk being incentive enough to buy a (new) Gamecube, but the numbers in the bi-monthly "Got Gamecube?" polls hardly changed between September and the present. --- The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://crolapras.tripod.com/ffproj.html |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/9/2004 8:29:26 PM | Message Detail |
| I
suspect that the average voter who has played neither game will simply
vote along series lines, i.e., vote as they would in a "Legend of Zelda
series vs. Super Mario Bros. series" poll. And all evidence points to
this being heavily in favor of Zelda. The problem with this reasoning is that not all Zelda or Mario games will get the full support of their constituencies. The original Zelda is not the most popular by a long shot, while SMB3 is the definitive Mario game. So, can a percentage of the Zelda fans beat pretty much the entirety of the Mario fans? As for the remakes, they could play more of a role in the matches than the original games themselves. Both have been remade/re-released fairly recently, however, so it partially depends on the sales of the re-releases. I think Zelda may have an advantage there but I can’t be sure. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: cyko | Posted: 3/10/2004 4:49:19 AM | Message Detail |
How many brackets were there last year? Anyone got a number on it? there were 41,059 entries. Did the SMB3 remake for GBA sell well? it has sold very well. here's a list of Japan's top-selling games of 2003: http://www.gamingtarget.com/ArticleViewer.aspx?ArticleID=1883 18. Super Mario Advance 4 GBA, Nintendo 411,546 that's only in Japan, but for a game released in Japan in July to sell that many copies in just under six months, that's pretty impressive. i couldn't find any current sales numbers for America (i'm out of time), but i do know that it sold over 300,000 copies in it's first month of release last November, so it's still gotta be selling well here, too. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/10/2004 5:09:47 AM | Message Detail |
| the numbers in the bi-monthly "Got Gamecube?" polls hardly changed between September and the present. Wrong. Before the holidays, the GameCube was 10-15 points behind the PS2, and just a few weeks ago we had this poll again... the Cube was suddenly 3-4 points behind. Case in point, it's very likely that the effect of the pwnage of the PS2 over the Cube in the overall market may be nulled. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 6:44:33 AM | Message Detail |
| FF:CC
probably had a good deal to do with that, as well. All the sudden a
Final Fantasy game, one of the most popular series on this board, is on
GC... so of course people are going to pick up the system. Really, it's
cost is low and the fun factor is very high with all the awesome 4
player games. I'm happy to see Nintendo doing well again. Other than Halo, does the Xbox have a 4 player game that jumps out as being awesome? I really hear so little of what the system has to offer outside of Halo, KoTOR, DoA, and Morrowwind. Well, I suspect if they dropped their price and game people incentive to get 3 firends over they could be doing a lot better right baout now. So yeah, at least on a board like GameFAQs one game really could make a 5% difference for a system, if its Final Fantasy. This does show a promise for a good future. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/10/2004 9:25:45 AM | Message Detail |
| Well, something just came to my attention. Castlevania: SotN is a seed, number 11, correct? As Perfect Dark is a seed 6. So far, ok. But the games are from different systems, and I'm sure all of you know that. But take a look at the other PS1 games in that division. FF VII, I won't even comment, Metal Gear Solid, which is considered by many to be the best game on the PS1, FFT, which had the second most active PS1 board, and Xenogears, which is also very popular around here. Now, in PS1 terms, at least as far as the contest goes, SotN is the 5th most popular PS1 game. SotN is seeded below the best 4 N64 games (OoT, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Mario 64), the best 4 PS1 games (FF VII, Metal Gear Solid, FFT, Xenogears), the best GBC/GBA game (Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal), and the best Saturn game (NiGHTS into dreams...), at least as far as seeding goes. We also have Dance Dance Revolution (Arcade), Resident Evil (PS1), Panzer Dragoon Saga (Saturn), Fallout 2 (PC) and Suikoden II (PS1) in that division. So: Arcade = 1 game GBA = 1 game N64 = 4 games PC = 1 game PS1 = 7 games Saturn = 2 games With more PS1 choices than N64 choices, it would seem obvious to me that the more great games the system has, the lower some of its seeds would be, regardless of quality, since there atre so many. Perfect dark is ranked the third best N64 game, which IMO, doesn't really stack up to SotN, considering the amount of games both systems put out, and the amount of games both systems have in this contest. SotN is ranked above AND below some VERY popular games, and every PS1 owner know how tough the competition is. Perfect Dark is just Perfect Dark. A good game released at a late date with some fan base. Also, there's only 1 N64 games seeded lower than it, meaning the system didn't have that much to offer anyway. Mario 64 was a good game, but if that's all the 64 had to offer us, it's in trouble. Perfect Dark won't cut it. I know it might seem confusing to some of you, but the bottom line/conclusion is: SotN >>> Perfect Dark --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/10/2004 10:13:10 AM | Message Detail |
| That's
why many people have Contra beating Phantasy Star, and why a lot of
people think SSBM has no chance to get to the division finals. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: VideoboysaysCube | Posted: 3/10/2004 10:52:51 AM | Message Detail |
| I wasn't around for the nominations. How were they set up? --- This sentence has five words. This sentence has eight words. Exactly one sentence in this signature is true. |
| From: dethwing | Posted: 3/10/2004 11:29:29 AM | Message Detail |
| You
were only allowed to nominate 1 game per system. So you could nominate
as many as 30 games (Or there abouts, I doubt many people nominated
more than about 15, but what do I know?), but you couldn't nominate
both Goldeneye and Perfect dark at the same time (For example) This is why Halo is a number 1 seed, Phantasy Star is a 4th seed, and why Megaman has 0 games in it. --- Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth--Burlap to Cashmere Spring 2004 Final 4: Mario 3, CT, FF7, FFX |
| From: dethwing | Posted: 3/10/2004 11:30:20 AM | Message Detail |
| Er....5th seed. --- Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth--Burlap to Cashmere Spring 2004 Final 4: Mario 3, CT, FF7, FFX |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/10/2004 2:51:16 PM | Message Detail |
| Perfect
dark is ranked the third best N64 game, which IMO, doesn't really stack
up to SotN, considering the amount of games both systems put out, and
the amount of games both systems have in this contest. Yup. Seeding doesn't mean much for interconsole matches. Heck, you think Halo is going to perform like a #1 seed? It could lose to Starcraft and definitely won't get past Kingdom Hearts. And don't get me started on Melee... --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/10/2004 3:59:58 PM | Message Detail |
| I don't think that works for Melee, slowflake. If you look at the 128 division the spread is much greater: Xbox - 2 (not counting VC or MGS2 which likely syphoned off a lot of Xbox votes) GC - 3 (not counting Skies of Arcadia) PS2 - 4 (with VC and MGS2 possibly taking votes away from the Xbox side of things) PC - 2 (With VC also able to take votes here...) DC - 3 (Though SC could get a boost from arcade votes and Skies could get a few GC votes) GBA - 2 That's a much more varied and competitive field there. PSX has 7, PS2 only has 4 and half of those are ported to other systems. The fact that SSBM tops a system that is equally competitive with everything else in its generation is astounding, and with the continal rise of the GC I think it honestly earned that 2 seed. I know, there is a much smaller selection on the 'cube, but honestly think how many of those PS2 games are worth the title of Best Game Ever. When you think about it there were likely only 10-20 games in serious contention for that spot which isn't that much more than GC. Plus, I'd bet that the RE remakes sucked a lot of votes out of GC too. --- "Find Sister. Bone Sister. Kill Giant Tick." - Magus' plan, in the words of SemiFinal vs. Belarus |
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