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| Spring 2004 Contest |
| Pre-Season Spring Contest Discussion |
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| From: Zaphod H | Posted: 3/5/2004 9:48:59 AM | Message Detail |
| I take it AC stands for Advent Children, the FF 7 sequel that is in the form of a movie. --- Supporting Super Smash Brothers Melee for the 2004 Spring Contest going ALL THE WAY. It's tankalicous, like DK. |
| From: torchie6000 | Posted: 3/5/2004 9:50:10 AM | Message Detail |
| I still think that FFVII will win --- guess who's back |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/5/2004 9:58:17 AM | Message Detail |
| I
think the legions of Zelda fans will band together to overcome the
might of the series greatest rival. Also, those still bitter about
Cloud's victory over Link last year might throw aside any doubts about
OoT, and vote it to victory. Tsk, tsk, tsk... most people don't give a flying crap about that sort of things. 98% of the voters just vote for their favorite and move on. Only the board worries about such trivial things, or should I say, only a small part of the board. How else did the 2002 math hold so well last year? That brings me to Heroic Tails' argument about Kingdom Hearts. What else could've influenced the results, except for it? Ever wondered why Tidus did so well compared to Auron? Auron wasn't in KH AFAIK, and Tidus performed just a wee bit better in 2002 than Auron last year. Now, we know that being the hero probably brings a rather big advantage over the fan-favorite, and my thoughts on this is that it took KH for Tidus to be able to tap into that advantage. Other than that, a quick look at which characters changed in popularity between the two contests, once we null the effects of the very suspicious Link/Sephiroth match, as well as SFF for Mario/DK and Crono/Kefka, indicates improvement for six characters: Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris, Squall, Tidus... and Alucard. Why Alucard? After all, if he stayed at the same strength as in 2002, he wouldn't even have beaten Kirby. Well, Alucard is in the same situation as the other five: only had one major game before, got a new one in the off-season. Bang! A few extra points, he beats Kirby. Bigger new-school support for FF is out of the question, because of the Tidus/Auron comparison above, and also because Aeris improved very little compared to the other four. This would also indicate that Auron wouldn't have benefited nearly as much as Tidus from a KH boost. Bigger overall Square support is also hard to accept as a valid hypothesis... Crono falling short of Mario AGAIN is a good indicator. So that leaves only one thing... Alucard's plan. No, don't laugh, the KH theory is actually confirmed by Alucard. If you have no way to prove WW Link < OoT Link... then the contrary can be proven easily. Fanboyism works for both sides... and at all times. Last year, Nintendo failed. Perhaps it will succeed this year, but there are more signs that it won't. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:05:11 AM | Message Detail |
| But you're forgetting one very important thing, Slowflake. There was only one way to win last year's contest: dumb fanboy luck. The thing is, if I choose FF7, and FF7 wins, then fine. But if OoT wins, then I'll really regret it. And the other way around? Well, if I choose OoT and it loses, I won't feel bad, because I knew it was a risk to begin with. See my point? That said, I'm outta here if I don't want to miss my train. --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:10:55 AM | Message Detail |
| Poor Ulti, seems like you're upset because you can't be the only arrogant jerk around here. :) You children, I swear (:
Really, the reason noone says anything about the things I say and do is
because no one gives a crap. This is a message board, after all, so why
should they. Relax a little, why don't you? How I manage to push all
your buttons is beyond me, it's not like I really try. Sure, I try
tried to tease you since you are always overly confident (believe me, I
can recognize it when I see it, I'm a PRO) and make statements that
imply you aren't wrong. And no, your time spent here talking about this
and that means nothing to this contest. Your years of talking have
focused on characters, not games, so this is all new to even you. If you look at few posts between creativename and myself, he pointed out the same things, and I apologized, and said I`d work on not doing them anymore. And see what I bolded? That`s all I ask of to to do. That`s funny, well-wordedm actually featured a capital letter, and a couple of little smileys to boot. It felt good, DIDN`T IT? Don`t deny me, ***** :) Anyway, to be more serious, I only have two pet peeves that actually set me off to the point of making rather long-winded posts to bash someone. One of them is ****ing with my friends. I stick up for everyone I`m cool with, which is a lot of people. The other is discrediting anyone`s opinions simply because they are young. And yes, I`m very cinfocent/vocal with my picks, yes, I come off like I`m not wrong about those picks, and yes, none of us truly know what will go down in this contest. I`ll work on recognizing those philisophies as my makers, mmkay? ~_^ As for the more serious discussins going on in this topic, a very good point was made about Cloud/Link. I`ve tried forgetting about the fact that match pics had anything to do, but again, this has come up. Until it actually happens, I honestly have no idea how a match would pla out between Ocarina of Time Link`s picture and a Cloud pic. We could dissect it to death, but I think that match would be up in the air. --- My SC2K4 Petition: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=7&topic=12558738 Boards Hunted: 3277 |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:11:23 AM | Message Detail |
| Major issues here are... Halo over Kingdom Hearts?????? FFX over SSBM?????? In my brackets, THOSE TWO are my biggest concerns. I'm pretty sure things will end up in my favor (hopefully), but so is everyone else. Halo is the only XBOX hope, but KH has square fanboys. As does FFX, who also has the Final Fantasy fanboys. SSBM is supposed to be a great game, and a #2 seed, when FFX is a #3. Biggest doubt of the match, for me. --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: Young Boy | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:11:41 AM | Message Detail |
| Of the contest****, I meant. --- Oh! The double standard... |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:16:55 AM | Message Detail |
| of
YOU to do, even. Anyway, I`ll work on not doing those things. And
honestly, I swear I don`t try to come off as an arrogant person.
Confident, maybe, but I guess that rubs off a bit much. I`ll remember
to use the terms "I think" and "in my opinion" more often. --- My SC2K4 Petition: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=7&topic=12558738 Boards Hunted: 3277 |
| From: Albertpink | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:17:39 AM | Message Detail |
I believe Wind Waker is significantly weaker then OoT. I would rank LttP above it. And no matter what the picture, Link will still be Link, and Cloud be Cloud. Just my own little philosophy, although a really appealing picture can net some votes, the match would have to be excrutiatingly tight for it to matter. I still have Metroid Prime > LoZ: WW. I'm just about ready to change it, since this one is worth a lot of points. The winner will get into the division finals. ~_~ I'll just flip a goddamn coin... --- For two points to exist, a third point must exist between them. .999~ = 1 |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:23:11 AM | Message Detail |
| I
know you're away for now, Heroic Tails, but whenever you come back, I
want you to ask... how is taking risks on your bracket relevant to
variation in one's popularity? Anyway, if I feel like being conservative with my picks, then I'll be conservative (and for the record, I believe there is no such thing as a conservative pick in that Division 128). I might win, I might lose, but one thing's for sure: I'll do better than the guy who not only did not pick the actual upset special, but also picked the wrong one. Meaning, I did worse than the guy who picked Cloud to beat Link, but still better than the ones who picked Sephiroth, Samus, Magus, Sonic, Mario or Luigi to do it. I'm not eligible for a prize anymore: my objective is to get the best finish I can. In that context, picking an upset special blindly, without having an idea of what I'm doing (kinda like that guy who has DDR going all the way), has so little chance to succeed, that I might as well not bother. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Zaphod H | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:24:11 AM | Message Detail |
| Actually, I've been wondering about how the match pics will look like. For characters Ceej had some themes to work with, I don't know if he can use themes for match pics without creating advantages and such. (Although I think 1st round pic choices in the past have affected matches...) 1st round will probably feature either the game "logo" or boxart, but aside from those two choices, I don't see other alternatives. (Imagine the reactions if Ceej decided to use characters from the games as a round theme, there'd be "Wtf? It's not a Character Contest!" topics left and right...) --- Supporting Super Smash Brothers Melee for the 2004 Spring Contest going ALL THE WAY. It's tankalicous, like DK. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:28:23 AM | Message Detail |
| If I had any influence whatsoever, I'd ask him to rip off these logos MMXcalibur has on his Prophet Challenge site. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: sachi | Posted: 3/5/2004 10:47:13 AM | Message Detail |
| So would a lot of other people. --- Stop looking at me like that... |
| From: Starion | Posted: 3/5/2004 11:04:43 AM | Message Detail |
| Aside from Boxart and logo, he could use a pic of the opening screen of a game. Of course, that usually contains the logo itself so I don't know if you could consider it all that different. Posters would be nice but I don't think all of the games in this tournament have them. |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/5/2004 11:15:22 AM | Message Detail |
| I`ll remember to use the terms "I think" and "in my opinion" more often. Why? Have people been telling you to do so? That's crap. Anything you write here is, obviously, your opinion, and anyone who can't tell that is a moron (in my opinion, which is, in my opinion, my opinion). If I say "Final Fantasy VII is going to win the contest" and someone replies "That's just your opinion"...well, no ****, Sherlock. As for pictures, game logos would be nice but we all know CJay likes to diversify. Game logos would be good for a round, then maybe the box art, but what then? A screenshot, maybe? There's really no way to get around showing the characters unless Ceej just uses logos and box art for the whole contest. That would be boring, wouldn't it? --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 3/5/2004 11:27:15 AM | Message Detail |
| CjayC
is an absolute genius, and he`s also a very funny guy. I have no doubt
in my mind that he`ll come up with something good. Personally, I say
that there shouldn`t even be pictures at all, but that`s pretty boring,
isn`t it? And you actually see my psychological message board philosophies on personalities, and how useless so many things truly are in the grand scope of it all. Nice work. But that being said, I`ve never been a big fan of being disliked by anyone, so hey, I`ll do what I can. I enjoy being a mediator in flame wars, not being IN them. Then again, you have to really get under my skin for me to do anything, so who knows. But I feel better. Last night, I was very tired, and Blackscar`s trolling was really getting to me. Normally, it doesn`t bother me, but when people IM you about virtually every day, you get compelled to do something. But hey, let`s put this whole thing behind us and discuss the contest again, shall we? --- My SC2K4 Petition: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=7&topic=12558738 Boards Hunted: 3277 |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 3/5/2004 1:25:12 PM | Message Detail |
| I
know you're away for now, Heroic Tails, but whenever you come back, I
want you to ask... how is taking risks on your bracket relevant to
variation in one's popularity? I don't take risks blindly. I am convinced (for the various reasons you most obviously don't agree with) that there is a reasonable chance OoT will indeed win; otherwise I wouldn't do that. All the risky choices I made in my bracket - I did them because I think it might very well happen, and if it doesn't, then it'll be close. Consider it like this: everytime I choose something considered risky, it means in my mind that it's about a 50/50 chance. In that case, the most reasonable choice, if you consider mathematical average of results (dunno exactly how to translate that in english) is to choose the least popular outcome. Suppose I think FF7 will win with probability .55. I think we can assume much more people will have FF7 winning than OoT, let's say, in a 2 to 1 ratio. So suppose there are 100 people with better brackets having FF7 winning and 50 people with better brackets having OoT winning. I have two choices: 1. I choose FF7 to win. If it wins, I'm 101st, if it loses, I'm 151st. Average: 101*.55 + 151*.45 = 123,5. 2. I choose OoT to win. If it wins, I'm 51st, if it loses, I'm 151st. Average: 51*.45 + 151*.55 = 106. In average, even though I think FF7 is a little more likely to win, I still score better by choosing OoT, assuming it is the less popular choice - which is the case imo. --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: Haste2 | Posted: 3/5/2004 2:50:03 PM | Message Detail |
| Tails,
except that you can't afford doing that for multiple matches, as
there's definitely going to be more expected wins than upset wins in
the harder-to-guess matches. --- "Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/5/2004 3:21:26 PM | Message Detail |
| Hell,
I never said to stop being confident, though you could (and did) take
it that way. All I was really implying was that you shouldn't get
pissed off when I'm also brash and overconfident. Though I must say, if you truly believe that the age of some of these users doesn't affect their knowledge about this contest you're sadly mistaken. Most of the people on this board are too young to have played most of the 8-bit games, and more often than I thought I'd ever have to deal with in my life I hear "WTF is Adventure?". I was never a big fan of anything the came before the NES days, but I know what Adventure is and why it's so damn important to gaming... we wouldn't likely have Zelda if it were not for adventure. That being said, I'm sure you can figure out why those two are going head to head in the first round. To think that people can't see these obvious setups is astounding. I wonder what these people have been doing, as it certainly had nothing to do with playing games. "What is NiGHTS?" is another question that bothers me, and more so that they have no clue why it'd face Mario 64. It's sad the people don't know what that game is since it was better than any 3D Sonic game in every way conceivable and it came out a whole generation before Sonic even hit 3D. Amazing that Sega can make NiGHTS on the Saturn into one awesome game and then when they go back to their old standby Sonic and put him into the 3d realm they fail as a whole. Stick to 2D Sega... But anyways, all these 14-17 year old kids don't even known the awesome games in their own generation, let alone have a clue as to what games were great when they were still in diapers. Once they have a fair grasp on the games that are actually competing here then my kiddie comments no longer apply. But if you haven't played or heard of 75% or more of the games and you're wondering what these games are... you really don't know what you're talking about in this contest. I can tell you've got a good grip, most of the people in this thread know 80-90% of the games easily, but it's not like that throughout the entire board. Games that deserve far more respect than they get have made it into this contest, and chances are they are going to get raped because of 14-17 year old kids who have never even owned the systems these games are for. Oh, and this bang-fang triangle talk is obviously unnecessary as Panzer Dragoon Saga is going to crush them all, or it would if the contest was based on how good they game actually is (minus SotN which would put up a darn good fight but still inevitably lose). Look, paragraphs! And, better yet, proper spelling and all that jazz without the spellchecker! WHEEEEEE! --- The cry sounds out from the throngs. PICS NOW, with you both in thongs! - Villainous Janus |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/5/2004 3:26:06 PM | Message Detail |
| Mind you, the flow of the paragraphs are highly suspect. That, however, is of little concern. And that risk... far too big of a risk to take in my opinion. We are NOT talking about a match that's only going to be worth 2 points, we're talking about one that is going to be worth 30 or 62 points. We KNOW the winner of that match is destined to take that whole division and make it to the finals, and it's almos tcertain they will win as well. I'm taking the safe be on this one. --- The cry sounds out from the throngs. PICS NOW, with you both in thongs! - Villainous Janus |
| From: Haste2 | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:00:14 PM | Message Detail |
| Ack, I'm not so confident about SMRPG vs. SFII and Phantasy Star vs. Contra anymore. SMRPG vs. SFII Well, I was pretty confident SFII would take this at first, but now I've remembered that fighting games are terribly unpopular at GameFAQs. I've also checked the amount of reviews for SFII...not many. o.O What about Ryu's performance, though? He did very well against Solid Snake, who's not only from an excellent game, but is an excellent character. I fear SMRPG could suffer from the most casual visitors, though, but it would win based on the more dilligent GameFAQs visitors. I've changed to SMRPG, for now... Phantasy Star vs. Contra I originally picked Contra without much doubt, but thanks to Slowflake, I'm thinking things over again. I don't think either of these games were all that much played with newer visitors this year (just think...probably few people under 16 years old have played Contra), but I'm sure more have played that side-scrolling shooter than the SMS RPG. This could easily put Phantasy Star at an advantage from name recognition...however, the PSO games aren't incredibly popular here, I don't think, so Contra still definitely has a shot. Perhaps the remakes of the Contra will help with the recognition, as mentioned by NT220). There's gotta be a seeding upset SOMEWHERE in the first division. I will never give in to Duck Hunt beating DK, by the way. Let me note that if River Rity Ransom beats Pong, Contra WILL beat Phantasy Star. That's because if RCR is that recognized to win, I'm sure Contra will be even MORE well-known and will take out PS. Of course, Contra vs. Phantasy Star comes first... Nobody has said anything convincing about Earthbound vs. Doom or Pokemon GSC vs. Xenogears, yet. Anyone have anything else to say about those? Bigger overall Square support is also hard to accept as a valid hypothesis... Crono falling short of Mario AGAIN is a good indicator. Yes, but it still doesn't have to be the KH factor. Notice how much FF7 dominated the Best FF Poll last year. It's never won by so much, and I'm betting FF7 gathered fans at this site MUCH faster in proportion to the other (mainly the older) FF games even from the year 2002 to 2003. And Chrono Trigger would be classified far closer to the older FF games than the newer FF games. --- "Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." |
| From: Shadow Doom Blaze | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:05:21 PM | Message Detail |
| Oh,
that`s just fine. The way that post was worded was PERFECT. You proved
your point and backed it up without sounding like an ass. That`s how
it`s done. Keep it up :) Who coined the phrase BangFang, anyway? --- *is Ultimaterializer* |
| From: Zaphod H | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:10:12 PM | Message Detail |
| Those are some good points raised on age, Chichiri, but you make it sound like all 14-17 year olds should know what NiGHTS is (I don't know what game it was when I saw it either)... Although that would be great, its just a fact of the gaming community that not all every gamer will know about or have played all the great titles in their generation. Heck, I bet most wouldn't have played all the great titles on one system, let alone 3 ,4 generations' worth of consoles (I know I sure haven't heard of, let alone have played, them all). Now, this is perfectly understandable, due to various reasons, I would think they are namely: time (some only play for leisure), finance (not everyone is Bill Gates' son), and interest (other hobbies). Thus, although you it may be true those who don't know enough about the games in this contest make more biased or perhaps uninformed contributions to these discussions, I think they may also be a good indication of how the average voter would react. That's because I think the average non-board using voter would know less about these titles than the board-users, and past contests have shown that the non-board using voters form the majority of the votes. --- Supporting Super Smash Brothers Melee for the 2004 Spring Contest going ALL THE WAY. It's tankalicous, like DK. |
| From: Rodri316 | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:13:14 PM | Message Detail |
| What
mainly leads me to believe that Phantasy Star will defeat Contra is
that Phantasy Star simply carries a franchise name, and while Contra
has been played more than the game "Phantasy Star" itself, the Phantasy
Star series it more popular and it has the Sega fanbase behind it
(something Contra lacks). Aside from that, Phantasy Star Online on the
Gamecube and Xbox should earn it valuable support. --- Do you have any advice for filling out our brackets? ''Never underestimate the true power of fanboyism.'' - CJayC |
| From: ZetSword | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:16:09 PM | Message Detail |
| Yea,
Shattered Soldier didn't sell too well and certainly didn't sell better
than Phantasy Star Online, but I'm hoping there's few enough people
that honestly haven't played Phantasy Star that won't vote for just
because of the name. --- Jeff Foxworthy: You know you're a redneck when you have a gunrack on your gunrack. Stewie: YOU SUCK! |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:17:56 PM | Message Detail |
| Yes,
but it still doesn't have to be the KH factor. Notice how much FF7
dominated the Best FF Poll last year. It's never won by so much, and
I'm betting FF7 gathered fans at this site MUCH faster in proportion to
the other (mainly the older) FF games even from the year 2002 to 2003.
And Chrono Trigger would be classified far closer to the older FF games
than the newer FF games. I checked the last two polls on this. The results are virtually identical, except for one major thing: FF7 sucked a whole friggin' quarter of FF10's support. More than anything, it shows how FF10 died down since beating SSBM for GOTY 2001. This one could still be up in the air... and suddenly, Wind Waker winning the division looks a whole lot more doable. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: Zaphod H | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:18:31 PM | Message Detail |
| Off
topic, but I really sometimes wonder why there aren't any more 2-D
co-operative fighters/platformers (Contra, Double Dragon, RCR) or
action RPGs (SoM) being produced now-a-days. Maybe it's just that I don't pay enough attention to what's being made out there (I know there's Shattered Soldier, but I'm more into Double Dragon type games, heh). Anyone know some good recent titles for these genres? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. --- Supporting Super Smash Brothers Melee for the 2004 Spring Contest going ALL THE WAY. It's tankalicous, like DK. |
| From: Yesmar | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:35:37 PM | Message Detail |
| Top 50 FAQs? Well, Ocarina of Time is on it too, but you'd always need a FAQ more for a RPG than for a Zelda game. You know, I think OoT will win, but I never understood this argument. Adventure and action games always have stuff you need to collect, more complex puzzles, boss strategies. This is the stuff you need FAQs for. Don't get me wrong. I <3 RPG's, but I never understood why everyone always says you need more FAQS for them. It's not like there's any set strategies to beating bosses, and puzzles are usually less complex. There's no passwords and less "collection" side-quests. They're a lot more straightforward then other games. Unless you talk about strategy RPG's, but that's another story. --- Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf The Leftovers member in Trivia XII |
| From: Starion | Posted: 3/5/2004 4:46:17 PM | Message Detail |
| I don't mean to be a bit off topic but I am curious about something. Since the seeding was based on actual number of votes, how would someone fare if they chose strictly by seed (ignoring obvious joke-type matches of course)? I realize this strategy may not be the one that wins the grand prize but would it do better than the average? |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/5/2004 5:00:05 PM | Message Detail |
| From
a win/loss point of view, at least according to my bracket, the seeding
was very well done, better than in the other two contests. The only
aberrations are Halo and LttP. Other than that... I have 1 vs. 3, 1 vs.
6, 1 vs. 2 and 5 vs. 3 in the division finals. Shows you. Of course, last time the Elite 8 was all 1 and 2 seeds, but other than that it was full of nonsensical aberrations. Magus, Ganondorf, Ramza, and on the other side Kirby, Sam Fisher, Master Chief and Luigi. And then there was Kefka, the rightly seeded underseeded, if you get what I mean. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Winner: FF7 --- Finalist: CT --- Semifinalists: SMB3, LoZ:WW |
| From: creativename | Posted: 3/5/2004 5:29:16 PM | Message Detail |
| creativename has me convinced that Goldeneye will beat it in round 2 Well, that was certainly not my intention ;) While I believe Goldeneye's has very, very high odds of beating Perfect Dark, I'm not 100% convinced of it myself. Perfect Dark is a very well respected game. I was just trying to say that it makes no sense to be so convinced of anything in a lot of these cases, because so many of these matches are unpredictable. Heroic Tails, I believe you were trying to say that if your objective is to *win* this contest, you have to take some risks. This is because while the mean of your distribution of outcomes--that is, your expected finish, or expected number of points--would be made lower by making "risky" picks, in many cases your probability of finishing #1 would be increased. This is because while the distribution of where you finish shifts left, the tail end on the right gets thicker: the standard deviation has increased, and the values on the tail are more likely. This of course makes sense because, clearly, if you with the "consensus" picks you're not likely to win, simply by the fact they're consensus picks. A lot of people would've picked them. The thing about this contest though is that in a lot of cases, there really isn't a true consensus. The consensus choices for the Final Four are SMB3, CT, FF7/OoT, and SSBM...but a lot of people think games like LttP or FFVI can beat Chrono Trigger, and SSBM's favorite status seems strangely undeserved in the minds of many (including mine). Certainly, lots of people in this topic are very leery of SSBM. Like Slowflake said, there pretty much is no "conservative" choice in the 128. SSBM is a nexus point, in a sense, because its so volatile. Nailing the important nexus points is of course very important to winning. Thing is, exactly which matches are the nexus points isn't entirely predictable itself. Obviously, in SC2K3, Cloud vs. Link was the nexus point, but not too many people would've thought that. Likewise, there might be a match here that gives a surprise outcome, in the sense that few even thought a surprise was possible there. And then there was Kefka, the rightly seeded underseeded, if you get what I mean. Heh, yes :) He was supposed to be Magus, but he ended up being Pac-Man. Now, while the "pic factor" is said to have played a role in his performance vs. Pac-Man, there isn't much reason to believe that. The very concept of a "pic factor" is entirely unnecessary, and it must be absolutely minor if it exists at all. Take, for instance, Cloud vs. Link. Many said that Link was hurt by his Wind Waker pic. Yet Cloud beat Link by basically what you would've expected by extrapolating the results from previous matches (Cloud vs. Sonic, Link vs. Samus, etc.), and the Cloud vs. Sephiroth result was also basically predictable by extrapolating the Cloud vs. Link result. So there is no reason at all to make up some explanatory factor, for a result that makes perfect sense. Now, the Cloud vs. Link match was very close, and if there is a very minor pic factor it might've affected the outcome; but that's only because the two characters were almost equal anyway. The thing about Kefka vs. Pac-Man is that when comparing 2002 vs. 2003, Pac-Man was one of the characters whose popularity declined the most. This is actually more likely the results of Same Fanbase Factor between Kefka and Crono though: if a pic factor did exist hurting Kefka, it would've resulted in the overrating of Pac-Man, not the other way round. It actually hurts me to say this, because I wish Kefka was more popular than he seems to be; but there's no convincing reason to think that he was significantly hurt by the pic factor against Pac-Man. The only reason to believe so, is that his performance was much poorer than expectations. That means a little bit, but not much, especially when taking his performance against Crono into account. --- Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4! |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/5/2004 6:25:37 PM | Message Detail |
| From
a win/loss point of view, at least according to my bracket, the seeding
was very well done, better than in the other two contests. The only
aberrations are Halo and LttP. Other than that... I have 1 vs. 3, 1 vs.
6, 1 vs. 2 and 5 vs. 3 in the division finals. Shows you. I agree. Going even further, I have all the top four seeded games in the 8-bit and 32-bit divisions going to the third round and three in the 16-bit division. The 64-128 bit division is the only one that has screwy seeding (if my bracket is right, anyway). Kingdom Hearts is no #9 but against such stiff competition on its own system for nominations, as opposed to the significantly easier competition on other consoles, I can see why it's there. This is why I think SSBM is being overestimated as compared to Vice City and FFX; the latter in particular will kill it on this site. Of course, last time the Elite 8 was all 1 and 2 seeds, but other than that it was full of nonsensical aberrations. Magus, Ganondorf, Ramza, and on the other side Kirby, Sam Fisher, Master Chief and Luigi. And then there was Kefka, the rightly seeded underseeded, if you get what I mean. Yes. As I mentioned above, the only reason for messed-up seeding in this contest is the inequity of quality games on various systems. There really isn't anything to vote for on the Xbox but Halo and KOTOR, and little on the GameCube that stood a chance but Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, and SSBM. This is why I think it might have been better to just have us nominate our top ten favorite games instead of having to nominate one per system, but hey, CJayC knows best. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/5/2004 8:30:05 PM | Message Detail |
| Though
I must say, if you truly believe that the age of some of these users
doesn't affect their knowledge about this contest you're sadly mistaken. I would agree there. I would have more knowledge about Division 8 if I were a few years older, though I still fail to see why throwing this fact into my face in many of the posts I've seen from you is appropriate. I can't really help that I was born in '86. Most of the people on this board are too young to have played most of the 8-bit games, and more often than I thought I'd ever have to deal with in my life I hear "WTF is Adventure?". I was never a big fan of anything the came before the NES days, but I know what Adventure is and why it's so damn important to gaming... we wouldn't likely have Zelda if it were not for adventure. Yes, I am well aware of that. I've played Adventure. It sucked. Maybe it was good for its time; I wouldn't know. I don't see why being a 'mature' gamer hinges on my knowledge of ancient games that stink in every way compared to today's standards. SMB3 is still fun to play; that's why it deserves its place as one of the best games of all time. Despite the crappy graphics, it was just plain fun when I played it. Same with Tetris (though I played the GameBoy version). Good games don't depend on the coolness of their graphics or newness. I don't know whether or not Adventure was ever cool but it's not now and I don't think people who haven't heard of it are missing some integral part of their existence as gamers. To think that people can't see these obvious setups is astounding. I wonder what these people have been doing, as it certainly had nothing to do with playing games. I think I was starting my third trimester as the NES was shipping to the US. Developing my lungs was a top priority at the time. But anyways, all these 14-17 year old kids don't even known the awesome games in their own generation, let alone have a clue as to what games were great when they were still in diapers. Wow, that "all" makes this an absurd generalization. I like to think I have contributed to the discussion on some of the matches in this topic, and I have comitted the grievous sin of being seventeen. Goo goo ga ga. I am weak in knowledge on Division 8 as compared to the other divisions. Yes, the NiGHTS thing was completely over my head. Five of the seven games I'd never heard of before this contest come from the first two divisions, and there are more games I haven't played in Division 8 than the rest of the divisions combined. Still, that means I have at least heard of most of the games in this contest, despite being in diapers. Once they have a fair grasp on the games that are actually competing here then my kiddie comments no longer apply. Oh, so apparently not "all" of us in our late teens are kiddies. Somehow our knowledge of archaic video games determines how "kiddie" we are. You sound ridiculous. You've made good points on the contest but you've got to get rid of these age-based judgements of yours. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 3/5/2004 9:00:56 PM | Message Detail |
| Hey,
like that last quote says, once you know the majority of the
contestants I don't give a rat's ass about your age anymore. You've
played Adventure, that's amazing, and the fact that you don't know what
about it was so important for its isn't surprising. Really, I don't
expect that of most people. If you think I'm ridiculous for saying you
aren't a kiddie because you actually know a thing or two, fine, you can
still be a kiddie. I'm not sure why that's what you want, but your
statements imply that this is the case. And the setups, the great setups... most of the obvious ones are from long after you got out of your diapers, let alone the time you spent in the womb, so that's no real excuse. Like I said, if you don't know why NiGHTS is matched up with Mario 64 you're missing something. That can't be helped, I know, but it is also disheartening. Setups include, but are not limited to: Round 1 Zelda vs. Adventure - similar types of games Chrono Trigger vs. Secret of Mana - non-FF Square RPGS on the SNES FF7 vs. Suikoden 2 - Critically acclaimed psx rpgs, and both are easily arguable as two of the best RPGs on the system, not many compare. Metal Gear vs Resident Evil - PSX "action" titles that are absed a lot more on figuring out puzzels and trying to avoid fighting than action. Mario 64 vs. NiGHTS - Two awesome platformers produced by two (once) eternal rivals. NiGHTS literally was meant to be the rival to Mario 64 Halo vs. Starcraft - Though Halo is known more for XBox this is the match up of the two most popular pc genres MP vs. Half-Life - FPS, plain and simple Tactics Advance vs. FE - GBA strategy RPGs FFX vs. Shenmue - Must I explain? They both represent the new directions that RPGs are going in this high-tech graphic whoring industry. Round 2 Mario 3 vs. Pac-Man - Classic Icons Phantasy Star vs. Final Fantasy - Classic RPGs Chrono Trigger vs. MarioRPG - The two best looking RPGs on the SNES, and two of the last as well. Sonic 2 vs. Mario World - *nods* Earthbound vs. FF3 - Nintendo vs. Square on square's home-ground... RPGs with cult followings FF7 vs. Xenogears - Both are claimed to be the greatest RPG on the psx and in Square's entire library by many, many people PD vs. GE - I hope it doesn't happen, but I shouldn't need to explain this. Mario 64 vs. Zelda OoT - nor this Zelda WW vs. Metroid Prime - not this either These are just obvious ones where both competitors (be they certain or not) are truly in competition for some smaller scale title. Zaphod H, not only am implying that everyone of all ages that calls themselves a gamer should know what NiGHTS is but they should at least make an attempt to play the game also, should the opportunity arise. *note: there is an emulator for the Dreamcast capable of playing Saturn games, and we all know isos aren't hard to find... If you don't have a Saturn and can't buy one there are still options... and the game is that good. *Spellchecked, but likely still a mess --- The cry sounds out from the throngs. PICS NOW, with you both in thongs! - Villainous Janus |
| From: cyko | Posted: 3/5/2004 9:34:14 PM | Message Detail |
| i
dunno Chichiri, i've played Nights and it really did bore me. all you
do is fly around, collecting spheres. even if it was one of the first
3-D games, that doesn't mean it was a fun 3-D game. soon after Nights
came out, Super Mario 64 came out and showed what a truly great 3-D
adventure/platform game should be like. it's not even a competition. new point: the curse of the 3 Seed is over!!! i don't think anyone else has mentioned it yet, but the 3 Seed Curse that plagued the likes of Gordon Freeman, Serious Sam Stone, Master Chief, and Luigi is no more!! all four 3 seeds this time around (Goldeneye, FFX, Legend of Zelda, and Super Metroid) are guaranteed to win their first matches and all have a great shot at the Sweet Sixteen. it's nice to finally see someone worthy of the number three spot, lol. in fact, i personally guarantee that the 3 Seeds this time around will all be among the Top 10 Biggest Blowouts in the first round. hmmmmmm...... well, since i am the self-appointed list-keeper, i will predict the Top 10 Biggest Blowouts of the first round: Top 10 Biggest Blowouts (first round and in no particular order) (1) Super Mario Bros. 3 over (16) Metal Gear (4) Final Fantasy over (13) Pitfall (3) Legend of Zelda over (14) Adventure (6) Legend of Zelda: LTTP over (11) Gunstar Heroes (3) Super Metroid over (14) Phantasy Star 4 (3) Goldeneye 007 over (14) Panzer Dragoon Saga (7) Super Mario 64 over (10) Nights (2) Legend of Zelda: OOT over (15) Fallout 2 (4) Metroid Prime over (13) Half-Life (3) Final Fantasy X over (14) Shenmue hmph. only one first seed and only one second seed. honestly, though, i think the Sixteen seeds are all very strong for 16th seeds (except maybe Metal Gear), while the 14 seeds are relatively weak. in fact, i believe that all of the 16 seeds could beat the 14 seeds in their respective divisions. but that's a moot point anyways........... any other thoughts on what the biggest blowouts will be? --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: Starion | Posted: 3/5/2004 11:21:08 PM | Message Detail |
| Something
about SSBM bothers me. It isn't a new game but it is still ranked at
pretty high in the TOP 50 list. Perhaps it could be explained by its
hardcore fanbase but why would these fans still use the FAQS? This type
of game doesn't lend itself well to repeated use of FAQs (unlike RPGs).
Could it be because of people relatively new to the game? |
| From: creativename | Posted: 3/5/2004 11:56:36 PM | Message Detail |
| I thought I'd mention...I was born in 1979 and have been an avid gamer since the 2600 days. I'd never heard of Adventure or NiGHTS until this contest. Anyway...I believe the biggest blowouts will be: *Legend of Zelda vs. Adventure *Tetris vs. Galaga *Link to the Past vs. Gunstar Heroes *Mario 64 vs. NiGHTS The winners in these should all delve into 90+% territory. I'm calling LoZ vs. Adventure as the biggest blowout of the tourney...I think LoZ will end up with 94+% of the vote there. After that happens, I think people will give a little more respect to LoZ's odds of beating SMB3. And then you'll have a contingent of people saying that people are now over-rating LoZ because of that match...<sigh> These boards are so predictable ;-) --- Remember to nominate Frog from Chrono Trigger for Summer Contest 2K4! |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 3/6/2004 3:30:41 AM | Message Detail |
| Tails,
except that you can't afford doing that for multiple matches, as
there's definitely going to be more expected wins than upset wins in
the harder-to-guess matches. Well, then I didn't explain myself clearly enough; it doesn't matter if I get some wrong - on average, by picking the risky choice, I get a better result. And the better way to get an "average" is to do it several times. I don't have time right now; to explain it again in a mathematical way; but believe me, if I knew the number of people who picked the winners of each match, my bracket would be much more easy to make. As for the absence of consensus. It doesn't matter. I expect most "good" brackets (those that are better than mine, except maybe for a few key matches) to come from people who either analysed things here or followed these analysis - just remember how well Samberdog's bracket did overall, if it wasn't for Cloud beating Link. Judging by the consensus here that FF7 is going to win, I expect most good brackets (the ones to beat) to have FF7 winning, meaning that the ratio 2 to 1 in my example is probably below reality, making it even more worthwhile, in average, and considering OoT has decent chances (better than the prediction ratio is the key point), to choose it. --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: Sir Shake | Posted: 3/6/2004 3:41:34 AM | Message Detail |
I gotcha, Tails. Its the right approach if you want to *WIN* the contest. But since I just want to get my pretty little face up that Leaderboard once, I'm going conservative. So I won't pick OoT. --- Shake : Can ya cook? Kali101 : Not really. I nearly killed myself once, trying to make spaghetti. |
| From: Teratron | Posted: 3/6/2004 4:14:53 AM | Message Detail |
| You
know, very shortly after the 2003 contest ended I posted a message
saying I thought the 2004 character contest should be divided up by
gaming era in exactly the same manner this contest is divided up. See
page 6 of Solarshadow's third stat topic from last year's contest. I
guess CJ and I think on the same wavelength or something. Anyway, what a tough contest this is going to be! There are just so many tough matches. I think the average scores are going to be much lower this year and it'll take fewer points to crack the leader board. Hopefully I'll have as much success at picking the lesser matches as last year while doing a little better in the big ones. IIRC, I was in a tie for third before I picked Link and Mega Man to go to the finals. D'oh! Anyway, I've been reading a lot of great points so far in this thread. Let me just say that I don't put a lot of faith in statistics. As an engineer, I'm forced to work with them all the time. They can be very useful, but they don't hold up well when you introduce a human factor. Trying to gauge opinion by using polls that are outdated and in a different format is risky at best and downright stupid at worst. So with that in mind, here are my picks so far. D8 1st Round Mario 3 vs. Metal Gear Metroid vs. Pac-Man Contra vs. Phantasy Star - Both are sort of niche titles, but Contra is the one that seems to stick out as being more popular when they were new. RPGs just didn't become popular in the US until the 16-bit era, and even then weren't mainstream. Regardless, either will lose next round. Final Fantasy vs. Pitfall Donkey Kong vs. Duck Hunt - My gut instinct was DH, but I'm thinking more and more it will be DK. Even if the character isn't tremendously popular around here, there's no denying the popularity of the original arcade game. Again, only one point on the line. Zelda I vs. Adventure Pong vs. River City Ransom - What a toughy. A great cult hit against the grand daddy of all video games. I'm just worried that RCR simply doesn't have enough exposure. Probably not many people will have played either, but everyone knows Pong. Tetris vs. Galaga 2nd Round Mario 3 vs. Metroid Final Fantasy vs. Contra - FF can handle just about any niche title. Zelda I vs. Donkey Kong Tetris vs. Pong - Pong loses its name recognition advantage here. If anything, Tetris might be even better known. 3rd Round Mario 3 vs. Final Fantasy - FF1 just isn't good enough to go up against the heavy hitters. Zelda I vs. Tetris Final Mario 3 vs. Zelda I - Tough call. Putting almost any Mario title against almost any Zelda title will normally result in a Zelda win. But Mario 3 just might have what it takes to take down a vulnerable Zelda title. I'll probably flip-flop on this one a lot. |
| From: Teratron | Posted: 3/6/2004 4:18:40 AM | Message Detail |
| D16 1st Round Chrono Trigger vs. Secret of Mana - I love SoM and will definitely be voting for it, but CT is just too much for it to handle. SMRPG vs. SF2 - Another very tough call. SF2 probably deserves the win, but I can't see it beating a Square-Nintendo collaboration featuring the incredibly popular Mario in a GameFAQs-preferred RPG format. Oh well, only 1 point on the line. Sonic 2 vs. Shining Force - Again, the game I prefer isn't likely to stand a chance. SMW vs. Simpsons - Again, Mario is just too much. LoZ:ALttP vs. Gunstar Heroes Super Metroid vs. Phantasy Star IV Doom vs. Earthbound - Earthbound is a cult hit, but I just don't see it being able to take down Doom. FF6 vs. Mortal Kombat 2nd Round Chrono Trigger vs. SMRPG SMW vs. Sonic 2 - Sonic has always been slightly overshadowed by Mario. LoZ:ALttP vs. Super Metroid - SM is a great game, but it still just can't quite compete with LoZ. FF6 vs. Doom 3rd Round Chrono Trigger vs. SMW - CT is pretty much a lock for the division final. FF6 vs. LoZ:ALttP - Now this is a tough one. I could easily see this go either way. Just because it's at GameFAQs, I'm going to have to go with FF6. I won't be surprised if I'm wrong, though. Final Chrono Trigger vs. FF6 - I actually think LoZ might have a better shot at beating CT, but I just don't think it will get the chance. The FF name might prevail here, but the past contests seem to show incredible support for CT. D32-64 1st Round FF7 vs. Suikoden Xenogears vs. Pokemon GSC - I could see Pokemon winning this, but I don't expect it to. Xenogears just seems too popular here. FFT vs. DDR MGS vs. RE Castlevania SotN vs. Perfect Dark - SotN is quite possible the best 2D game ever made. I expect that the game is quite a bit more popular than its lead character. Goldeneye vs. Panzer Dragoon Saga Mario 64 vs. Nights LoZ:OoT vs. Fallout 2 2nd Round FF7 vs. Xenogears MGS vs. FFT SotN vs. Goldeneye - If SotN can beat PD, it should be able to beat GE. OoT vs. Mario 64 3rd Round FF7 vs. MGS OoT vs. SotN Final OoT vs. FF7 - I think we all pretty much agree that this is the final? I don't think FF7 will get nearly the KH boost that Cloud did. Without that boost, FF7 generally ranks behind OoT. It has far more flaws while almost no one seems to really hate OoT. I should be close, but I feel fairly comfortable with this. |
| From: Teratron | Posted: 3/6/2004 4:21:57 AM | Message Detail |
| D128 1st Round Halo vs. Starcraft - Is this really in doubt? PC games are almost as black a sheep as X-Box games are here. I just don't see this being in question. Kingdom Hearts vs. Soul Calibur LoZ:WW vs. Skies of Arcadia Metroid Prime vs. Half-Life FFTA vs. Fire Emblem FFX vs. Shenmue Vice City vs. KotOR - This one is a real question mark to me. KotOR has been universally praised, but it's only on the two least popular platforms among GameFAQs users. Vice City doesn't Strike me as a particularly strong competitor, but it should win this match. SSBM vs. MGS2 - Like many have said, SSBM is a real wild card. I think it's just too popular to go out in the first round. 2nd Round Kingdom Hearts vs. Halo - KH is just way too popular. Metroid Prime vs. LoZ:WW - This is a really tough match. Much like the Mario 3 - Zelda I match, this is a case where the weaker franchise might win out. WW was great, but in many ways it was OoT with a facelift. Plus many people got very annoyed by some of the gameplay aspects, like the constant sailing and numerous fetch quests. I just think that WW is much more vulnerable than MP. FFX vs. FFTA SSBM vs. Vice City - Like I said, I don't think Vice City is a real strong competitor. Plus, SSBM is almost universally loved. 3rd Round Metroid Prime vs. Kingdom Hearts - This division is a killer. Kingdom Hearts is a great game, but MP and WW are just better. I can't see either of them losing here. FFX vs. SSBM - If for no other reason than the PS2-Gamecube disparity, I think FFX is hard to top. Final FFX vs. Metroid Prime - It's killing me to type this. My bracket right now actually has Kingdom Hearts winning this match. There are really six or seven games that have a real shot at winning this division. This is just the one that struck my fancy at this moment. Final Four Chrono Trigger vs. Mario 3 - Crono finally gets his revenge? I think so. Mario is more popular than any one game, while CT is more popular than any one character. That should be more than enough to tip the balance. LoZ:OoT vs. FFX - FFX is supposed to accomplish what FF7 couldn't? Final LoZ:OoT vs. Chrono Trigger - There's just no contest. The OoT-FF7 winner wins the contest. No other game in the field can really challenge either of them. |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/6/2004 7:08:17 AM | Message Detail |
| Hey, like that last quote says, once you know the majority of the contestants I don't give a rat's ass about your age anymore. And, as I implied, that contradicts your earlier statement. If you think I'm ridiculous for saying you aren't a kiddie because you actually know a thing or two, fine, you can still be a kiddie. I'm not sure why that's what you want, but your statements imply that this is the case. I'm saying that being a kiddie shouldn't be determined by knowing obscure old games. Hell, if you haven't at least heard of SMB3 then I don't know why you'd be on a gaming board, but Adventure? NiGHTS? Come on. I don't think that having played Adventure signals my having passed into the world of adulthood. What I meant by my comment was that your qualifiers for being kiddie are absurd. Now, back to gaming. Teratron, I agree with all your Division 8 and Division 16 picks (whether that's a good thing or not, only you can decide ;) although I'm still angsting over choosing LttP over Super Metroid, maybe just because I personally liked Super Metroid better and am more generally concerned about the seeding difference between the two. As for Division 32, however...I think you're seriously overestimating the popularity of Xenogears. It is popular on the boards but we're more fanatical about gaming in general and Xenogears never quite left cult status. It's still got more exposure than games like Earthbound but far less than any of Square's other RPGs in the era. And, of course, there are those like me who have played both and will vote for Pokemon, though I recognize I'm likely in the minority here. And that horrible, horrible trio of SotN, Perfect Dark and GoldenEye...well, you don't have what I've got but I can't really criticize any pick for that trio, unless you have PD over GoldenEye, which you don't. I also have FFVII over OoT but there's not much to say about that; I have my reasons, you have yours, and either pick is reasonable. My reasons are that this is GameFAQs, and FFVII has been one of the top ten FAQs forever, while OoT has slipped significantly. The lack of the KH boost for the game is an excellent point, however. And then there's Division 64...I agree with your first round but WW can take MP down despite being the inferior game, if only because it's Zelda and the franchise is bigger. You're also underestimating Vice City if you think SSBM will have an easy win against it; I think that's the hardest match to call out of the entire contest. Vice City has the advantage of being on the PS2 as opposed to the GameCube and its seeding might be horribly misleading considering what games were voted above it. I just can't decide on this match; I'll probably switch back to SSBM today and then Vice City tomorrow, on and on, until the contest begins. As for the bracket being so divisive in general, I really don't see how you could make a convincing claim for any game but FFX winning the division but if anyone wants to try, be my guest. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: NT220 | Posted: 3/6/2004 7:44:15 AM | Message Detail |
| Xenogears
never quite left cult status. It's still got more exposure than games
like Earthbound but far less than any of Square's other RPGs in the era. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Xenogears isn't popular, no, and I don't see it beating Pokemon... but less popular than any of Square's RPGs in that era? You're talking about a group that includes SaGa Frontier, Front Mission 3, Vagrant Story, Threads of Fate... Xenogears is the least popular of Square's popular PSX RPGs (if that made any sense), yeah, but mentioning it in the same breath as those is just wrong. And that horrible, horrible trio of SotN, Perfect Dark and GoldenEye...well, you don't have what I've got but I can't really criticize any pick for that trio, unless you have PD over GoldenEye, which you don't. I'm not seeing the hype for that quadrant, personally. It seems blatantly obvious to me that Goldeneye has it in the bag. SoTN/PD will be reasonably close, but I've never seriously considered the possibility of PD winning. Perfect Dark is quite cultish; in fact I'd call it the most cultish of the non-Saturn, non PC games in Division 32 (yes, even more cultish than Suikoden 2. This is a very RPG-centric site we're talking about here). Goldeneye is extremely popular, and I think it beats out Mario 64 for the second-strongest N64 game in the tournament. It has Bond for casual appeal, and came out at about the right time of the N64's lifespan. The four-pack of doom for me has always been Halo/Starcraft/Soul Calibur/Kingdom Hearts. Three difficult-to-call matches. I currently have KH taking it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it bomb out against SC in the first round. --- "The surest sign of intelligent life outside Earth is that none of them has tried to contact us" ~Calvin |
| From: irriadin | Posted: 3/6/2004 8:33:12 AM | Message Detail |
| I
have a feeling that the "bracket-buster" of the first round will be
Halo vs. Starcraft. Either Halo will win, and the somewhat large
minority of Starcraft voters will lose; or Halo will lose, and there
will be utter chaos. If Starcraft wins, I'm guessing that less than 30%
will choose the match correctly. --- Backing StarCraft and Ocarina of Time in the Spring 2004 contest. |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/6/2004 9:42:36 AM | Message Detail |
| Whoa,
whoa, whoa. Xenogears isn't popular, no, and I don't see it beating
Pokemon... but less popular than any of Square's RPGs in that era?
You're talking about a group that includes SaGa Frontier, Front Mission
3, Vagrant Story, Threads of Fate... Xenogears is the least popular of
Square's popular PSX RPGs (if that made any sense), yeah, but
mentioning it in the same breath as those is just wrong. Whoops, sorry. SaGa Frontier...another game I forgot was from Square, heh, and I've played it, too. Loved Vagrant Story; I wasn't really thinking of it as being in the same 'era' of RPGs as Xenogears, but it was on the PS1, so I'll give you that one, too, and same goes for Front Mission 3 and Threads of Fate. They were only a couple years later, I guess. Okay, so I should have said "out of all Square games in the contest." Vagrant Story should be more popular than Xenogears :( but oh well. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/6/2004 9:54:49 AM | Message Detail |
| I'm
not seeing the hype for that quadrant, personally. It seems blatantly
obvious to me that Goldeneye has it in the bag. SoTN/PD will be
reasonably close, but I've never seriously considered the possibility
of PD winning. Perfect Dark is quite cultish; in fact I'd call it the
most cultish of the non-Saturn, non PC games in Division 32 (yes, even
more cultish than Suikoden 2. This is a very RPG-centric site we're
talking about here). Hah, Suikoden 2 vs. Perfect Dark, now there's a match I'd like to see. Seriously, though, The Castlevania vs. PD match will be interesting. PD isn't as cultish as you think (just as I underestimated Xenogears a little back there, though it still can't beat Pokemon), in fact it's just two seats behind GoldenEye on the most popular N64 FAQ pages and has the second most popular N64 message board after OoT. Still betting on Castlevania, though. Goldeneye is extremely popular, and I think it beats out Mario 64 for the second-strongest N64 game in the tournament. It has Bond for casual appeal, and came out at about the right time of the N64's lifespan. I agree there. Mario 64 was awesome but GoldenEye had great timing, which is something PD didn't have going for it, unfortunately. I liked PD better myself but I realize that GoldenEye would beat PD. I think there are three reasonable possibilities as to how the GoldenEye/PD/Castlevania thing will turn out, and two of them have GoldenEye winning (the other having Castlevania winning, since I'm simply not familiar enough with the popularity of Castlevania's best game vs. GoldenEye to say that GoldenEye would win in all certainty). The four-pack of doom for me has always been Halo/Starcraft/Soul Calibur/Kingdom Hearts. Three difficult-to-call matches. I currently have KH taking it, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it bomb out against SC in the first round. See, I completely disagree here. These matches are easy aside from the Halo/Starcraft match which would only lose you one point, anyway. Much as I love Starcraft (see sig) Master Chief didn't do as horribly last year as he should have for a character suffering from Gordon Freeman syndrome and that makes me worried about Starcraft's chances. The Soul Calibur vs. Kingdom Hearts match is a foregone conclusion; Dreamcast vs. Square? Please. Even though SC has the SCII factor in its favor, Kingdom Hearts has Cloud, Sephiroth, Aeris...need I go on? I would be shocked if SC won against KH. Kingdom Hearts will then go on to decimate whoever wins the Halo/Starcraft match; its a question of consoles more than quality. A reasonably popular PS2 game will most assuredly beat anything the Xbox or PC could come up with on this site. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/6/2004 9:58:07 AM | Message Detail |
| Okay, so I should have said "out of all Square games in the contest." Correcting myself again because I keep hitting the wrong keys on this damn ancient laptop (i.e. ctrl-x) I will say "out of all Square games in the contest in its era," as it would have a good chance of beating a certain obscure SNES Square game. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron Proud Supporter of Starcraft in the Spring 2004 Contest |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 3/6/2004 11:34:43 AM | Message Detail |
| Contra vs Phantasy Star... I see cyko put a post up asking peeps if they played one or both of these. More peeps are sayin they played Contra than P Star. Interesting...very interesting...I have P Star to win it, but I love Contra more...now I am actually having doubts about a match! I am shocked! Comments? --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards...SC2K4: Match 1: Go SMB3! "A real gamer...standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years!" |
| From: AppIes | Posted: 3/6/2004 11:44:41 AM | Message Detail |
| It`s only one point, and does not make a difference. --- //\\. ||¯|| ||¯||' || " //_ ((¯ ||¯|| ||¯.. ||¯.. ||_ \\¯ _)) |
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