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| Spring 2004 Contest |
| Pre-Season Spring Contest Discussion |
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| From: DaruniaTheKing | Posted: 2/29/2004 12:55:17 AM | Message Detail |
| -I
expect the game that wins will be from the mid-late SNES era to the
beginning of the PSX-N64 era. Too many classics in that time frame to
NOT make a huge impact in this tournament and possibly win the title.... Is OoT from the begginning of the PSX-N64 era? Well, it doesn't matters, it will be the winner anyways. Well, OoT, or FF7. Also, to whoever said Pokémon games were borderline - What is a RPG for you? Pokémon Games are clearly RPGs, and online battles* requiere much more thought than the majority of FF games. *Of course, I'm talking of people who doesn't suck. --- Laura loves Hamtaro WAY too much, don't you think? *wink wink* AIM: DaruniaTheK1ng |
| From: GoldSlime35 | Posted: 2/29/2004 3:53:46 AM | Message Detail |
| I think the final will be FF7 vs LoZ:OOT. CT wil make the final 8. Maybe 4. Pokemon is a hard game to judge. Red/Blue should definitely make the final 16, but it could get farther. In the end an RPG might not win, but they will likely be good choices in the early rounds. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 2/29/2004 4:58:43 AM | Message Detail |
| OoT is right in the middle, I think (1998). I guess you could call it "the last of the juggernauts". It's impressive how many big games came out of this period. Sonic 3 & Knuckles Super Metroid Super Mario 64 Final Fantasy 6 Final Fantasy 7 Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time just to name a few. Funny how Mario's prime was earlier than most others... --- SpC2K4 Status --- Nominations: CT, LoZ:OoT, Metroid Prime, Diablo 2, SH, S3&K, SA2, SMB3 |
| From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 2/29/2004 5:05:01 AM | Message Detail |
| Crono is just another mute hero who's only really liked because of his appearance. I think that many people voting for him were voting for far more than just Crono in those matches, but maybe t`s just me. And solarshadow, you kick some serious ass. Expect me to have a very active role in these topics. --- My SC2K4 Petition: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=7&topic=12558738 Boards Hunted: 3277 |
| From: MyWorldIsStillSquare | Posted: 2/29/2004 5:05:55 AM | Message Detail |
MGS was the other great game that gave OoT serious competition in the best game catagory in 1998. --- Its been proven...MWISS >>> maplejet, know your good SC2K3 users. |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 2/29/2004 5:06:05 AM | Message Detail |
| But Magus being so close is what's fishy. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Nominations: CT, LoZ:OoT, Metroid Prime, Diablo 2, SH, S3&K, SA2, SMB3 |
| From: Qwaar | Posted: 2/29/2004 5:21:29 AM | Message Detail |
| I'm
really annoyed that it is only modern games that stand a chance.Classic
games form the old PC, Amiga, Commodore 64, various Atari stuff etc. Games like Zool, Frontier, Elite, Original Duke Nukem and The Secret Of Monkey Island deserve to go far, and outside of GFAQs I think they would. Ah well, Ocarina to win by a decent margin over random game in the final. --- "Hobbes, she stumbled into the perimeter of wisdom.Run!" |
| From: charmander6000 | Posted: 2/29/2004 6:51:00 AM | Message Detail |
| Also,
to whoever said Pokémon games were borderline - What is a RPG for you?
Pokémon Games are clearly RPGs, and online battles* requiere much more
thought than the majority of FF games. I totally agree with you if you really want to be good you have to spend hours of choosing pokemon, move picking and making sure that their isn't any weaknesses in your team. But to me Pokemon is probably one of or even the best Gamboy Color game, Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal are a very good addition to the games (If you don't believe me play Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal then try to play Pokemon Blue/Red) Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire were too much, while Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green are much better then Ruby and Sapphire. --- LUE is a cancer, and if it can't be destroyed, it must be contained. - CjayC Posted: 12/31/2003 11:59:59 PM - So close yet so far away |
| From: cyko | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:00:15 AM | Message Detail |
| i was waiting for the new topic. alright Solarshadow! :) As for potential bracket breakers, I can see an obvious choice - Zero Wing. You see, unlike the dialogue, Zero Wing isn't a bad game. With joke votes swelling the totals, ZW could take a victory. talk about a wasted space. i could easily name at least 134 games right off the top of my head that are better and more deserving to be in ths contest than Zero Wing. that game is the video game equivalent of what a one-hit wonder is in the music industry. Zero Wing's only claim to fame is it's poorly translated villain. *ugh* that does not qualify a game to be considered one of the greatest games ever. i swear, if that overhyped game makes this contest, it will get destroyed by epic proportions and i will personally start the Anti-CATS Army to destroy it's irritating fanboys. -I expect the game that wins will be from the mid-late SNES era to the beginning of the PSX-N64 era. Too many classics in that time frame to NOT make a huge impact in this tournament and possibly win the title.... It's impressive how many big games came out of this period. Sonic 3 & Knuckles Super Metroid Super Mario 64 Final Fantasy 6 Final Fantasy 7 Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time then there is also: Chrono Trigger Secret of Mana Donkey Kong Country Earthbound Super Mario RPG Super Mario World 2 (severely underappreciated because of the God-awful Baby Mario) Super Punch-Out Shining Force 2 Mario Kart 64 Star Fox 64 Goldeneye 007 Dragon Force (not gonna make it, but one of the best Saturn Rpgs. same era) Panzer Dragoon 2 Castlevania: Symphony of the Night Metal Gear Solid Resident Evil 2 Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 yeah, that was one heck of a great era. Sonic 1 and 2 should definitely get in. And if CJayC puts S3&K as one entry, it's an absolute lock. That's your three games. And I think we might see SA2. (Remember Shadow's matches?) there's no way that all three Sonic Genesis games will make it, the same way that all three Mario NES games will not make it and all 6 Megaman games will not make it. the Sonic games didn't cahnge that drastically throughout the Genesis era to desreve getting multiples in. realistically, i see one Genesis game and possibly a non - Genesis Sonic game, even though i don't think the Sonic Adventure series was all that great and neither did many of the critics and magazine reviewers. The other is very, VERY unlikely to make it, but you just never know. Einhander is a game that some Square fans might not even know is theirs, as it's not an RPG. But shooter fans call it one of the best for the Playstation. Doma, i do totally agree with you on this one! Einhander rocks!! it is one of the best shooters. ^_^ sadly, though, it will get overshadowed by the bazillion other Playstation games. i'd love to see it make it, though. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: MyWorldIsStillSquare | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:02:46 AM | Message Detail |
I could see two Genesis Sonics going in - Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 + K. If Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles are considered by CJC to be seperate entities, though, the spilt vote that would cause would be...difficult for Sonic 3 and S+K to handle. That's why I personally nominated Sonic 2...didn't want to risk a disqualified vote. --- Its been proven...MWISS >>> maplejet, know your good SC2K3 users. |
| From: torey luvullo | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:04:15 AM | Message Detail |
| i predict that zero wing will not make the field of 64. |
| From: Seadragon76 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:12:05 AM | Message Detail |
| I'll
second Zero Wing not getting in. All it has it's CATS and that's it.
Why not nominate a game that has a better chance to win because it's a
good game, not because of fanboyism over a horrid joke of a video game
character. Anyway, since I'm supporting the Fighting genre, are there any games in that genre that'll make some noise in the tourny? --- Uncle Seadragon wants you to support Fighting games in the 2004 Spring contest! |
| From: MyWorldIsStillSquare | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:14:19 AM | Message Detail |
Despite the fact that I'm still hoping you'd get hit by a meteorite... I know it'll piss you off, but I don't think a Guilty Gear game has a chance. I'd say Soul Calibur and Street Fighter 2 really have the best chances of making the most noise with Fighters. --- Its been proven...MWISS >>> maplejet, know your good SC2K3 users. |
| From: Seadragon76 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:16:37 AM | Message Detail |
| Hit by a metorite? What's with that comment, MWISS? Anyway, that's good to hear. I'm just crossing my fingers and hope one of those games don't run into OoT or FF7. --- Uncle Seadragon wants you to support Fighting games in the 2004 Spring contest! |
| From: toetyper | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:17:16 AM | Message Detail |
| my 4 #1 seeds: tetris SM64 FF7 SSX3 discuss /--- Madden '04 franchise status: Bucs year 2 record 0-0 playoff app 1 SB wins:0 |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:24:28 AM | Message Detail |
| Alright! Been waiting for this and now its here! What many forget is if Ceej makes this a truly unbiased greatest game contest, there will be lots of stuff no one is talking about on here, because the term 'greatest game' is a loose one. It is not the same as 'favorite game' Games like Disgaea, FF Tactics Advance, and the like dont belong in this contest. Sure they are good, but in terms of the greatest games in gaming history...they dont belong. For this bracket to truly be great, it must have games on it that contributed to the history of gaming in significant ways. Stuff like Doom, Metal Gear Solid, Pac-Man, Tetris, Resident Evil, and Punch Out belong just as much as FF7, Ocarina of Time and Chrono Trigger. I look forward to the brackets...then the real talk begins! Good to see everyone here from last year though! :) --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards Trivia Rank #23 Spring 2004: Legend of Zelda (NES) for Greatest Game Ever |
| From: MyWorldIsStillSquare | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:25:07 AM | Message Detail |
| Hit by a metorite? What's with that comment, MWISS? I got upset after a certain someone told me their Fighters would "beat the crap" out of my beloved Civ3. ::huggles Civ3:: --- Its been proven...MWISS >>> maplejet, know your good SC2K3 users. |
| From: Seadragon76 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:28:17 AM | Message Detail |
| Oh
yeah, that comment....Hey, It's how the poll ended. Fighters finished
ahead of Strategy, so there you go. If Civ3 faces, oh say, Mortal
Kombat and beats MK, then you'll be happy that I ate crow. --- Uncle Seadragon wants you to support Fighting games in the 2004 Spring contest! |
| From: Who Cares? | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:29:32 AM | Message Detail |
| As
far as fighters go, I've already said my peace on Soul Calibur 2, and
of course Street Fighter 2 should get to the secound round, probably
should be seeded between 5-9. However, there are three games I consider the be on the bubble. Mortal Kombat 2 -- Though I've never played much of the MK series, all fans of the series can agree to this one being the best of the series. And remember, back when arcades were in their prime, the only game to challenge SF2 for tokens was MK 1 & 2. Marvel vs Capom 2 -- Probably the biggest fighting game during the past 5 years. Seems to be a love-hate feeling with those in the fighting community, but more seem to love it. It's hard to find an arcade that doesn't have this game, or atleast one of the previous Vs games. It's also pretty solid on the DC & Arcade FAQs & Message Boards. It could get into the second round given the right matchup. Guilty Gear XX -- I'm really hoping this one gets in, & it seems to have a good amount of board support to get in thru nominations. As for winning a match, very unlikely since it would be a lower seed. But, maybe it'll show up as a #14 seed, & if the #3 seed curse transfers to the Game contest, prehaps.. :) I can't see more than 4 fighters getting in, so at least one of those three will not make it. |
| From: Seadragon76 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:33:09 AM | Message Detail |
| I did nominate MK2 for the Arcade, but there are huge MK haters out there, so if it wins, that'll be something. --- Uncle Seadragon wants you to support Fighting games in the 2004 Spring contest! |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:37:01 AM | Message Detail |
| Ok, I have been working on some number crushing this week-end - yes I was bored. Now I'm sure you're wondering: what numbers to use? Well, the only ones that are available for now: gamefaqs reviews. The idea is to have an idea of the polulation that visits gamefaqs - unlike FAQs (which are RPG-oriented), basically anybody can write a review for any kind of games. So they may be an accurate representation of things to come. Only problem is that you need a contributor account; also people might not feel the need to go make a review for a game they played years ago, thus hindering older games - well, no analysis is perfect anyway. But I think this is interesting nonetheless. So I've gathered this data for the following games: Chrono Trigger Civ3 FF6 FF7 FF8 FFX GTA3 GTAVC Halo Kingdom Hearts LttP Legend of Zelda Metroid Prime MGS MGS2 OoT Sonic Sonic 2 Sonic 3 Sonic & Knuckles Sonic Adventure 2 SMB SMB3 SM64 SMW SSBM Starcraft Super Metroid Tetris Wind Waker and looked at the results. Top 20 averages STARCRAFT (MAC) 9,8 SMB3 (NES) 9,645833333 LoZ (NES) 9,642857143 GTA3 (PS2) 9,62 GTA3 (-X) 9,6 GTA3 (COR) 9,584795322 SSBM (GC) 9,576271186 GTA3 (ALL) 9,572916667 GTA3 (PC) 9,56 CT (SNES) 9,547169811 STARCRAFT (ALL) 9,512195122 GTAVC (PS2) 9,5 SMB (GBC) 9,483870968 GTADB (XBOX) 9,476190476 CT (ALL) 9,474576271 STARCRAFT (PC) 9,472222222 SC2 (ARC) 9,470588235 OoT (GC) 9,466666667 SC2 (GC) 9,454545455 LttP (SNES) 9,422222222 Here you see a lot of different GTA - because I quickly run into the problem of how taking care of multiplatform games. Which is even more problematic with GTA, because of the Double Pack on Xbox. So here GTA3 (-X) means the combined score of GTA3 (PS2) and GTA (PC), to which GTA3 (ALL) adds the GTADB (XBOX) values. GTA3 (COR) is an empiric correction to account for the fact that GTADB (XBOX) has 2 games in one, such that the values coming from GTADB (XBOX) weigh half. But actually, the averages are not very interesting, as we could have guessed, because the top game in this list, STARCRAFT (MAC) only had 5 reviews, making it completely unreliable. If you're interested anyway, here is the top 20 without any regrouping multiplatform games: Top 20 averages - single platform STARCRAFT (MAC) 9,8 SMB3 (NES) 9,645833333 LoZ (NES) 9,642857143 GTA3 (PS2) 9,62 SSBM (GC) 9,576271186 GTA3 (PC) 9,56 CT (SNES) 9,547169811 GTAVC (PS2) 9,5 SMB (GBC) 9,483870968 GTADB (XBOX) 9,476190476 STARCRAFT (PC) 9,472222222 SC2 (ARC) 9,470588235 OoT (GC) 9,466666667 SC2 (GC) 9,454545455 LttP (SNES) 9,422222222 SM (SNES) 9,418604651 MGS2S (PS2) 9,35483871 FF6 (SNES) 9,346938776 SC2 (PS2) 9,3125 SMB (NES) 9,243902439 Ok, so what to look for? Something that'll take into account the popularity of the game more than its quality? Fine, let's use the sum of all the reviews. The more reviews, the more people have played the game, so the better it should do! Top 20 overall sum SC2 (ALL) 1266 MGS2 (ALL) 1098 GTAVC (ALL) 961 GTA3 (ALL) 919 OoT (ALL) 891 FF7 (ALL) 864 GTAVC (COR) 861,5 GTA3 (COR) 819,5 HALO (ALL) 817 LttP (ALL) 784 SMB3 (ALL) 780 GTAVC (-X) 762 FF6 (ALL) 744 SMW (ALL) 734 SA2 (ALL) 725 GTA3 (-X) 720 MP (GC) 719 FFX (PS2) 680 SMB (ALL) 673 FF8 (ALL) 652 Here we notice how Soul Calibur 2 crushes the competition - which is understandable, because it was successful on all game systems. What's more surprising, though, is the way OoT and FF7 never come on top - and this won't change anytime soon. Also, notice how whether or not we use corrected values for both GTA games put them above or below OoT and FF7. --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:37:28 AM | Message Detail |
| Top 20 overall sum - single platform MP (GC) 719 FFX (PS2) 680 ZWW (GC) 630 FF7 (PSX) 592 KH (PS2) 588 HALO (XBOX) 572 GTAVC (PS2) 570 SSBM (GC) 565 S3&K (GEN) 565 SC2 (GC) 520 CT (SNES) 506 MGS2 (PS2) 503 FF8 (PSX) 498 GTA3 (PS2) 481 OoT (N64) 465 SMB3 (NES) 463 FF6 (SNES) 458 OoT (GC) 426 LttP (SNES) 424 SM64 (N64) 410 Ok, so that's all good, but wouldn't there be a way to take into account both the popularity of the game and its quality? No problem, here comes the value of a game, which is the product of the average by the overall sum (divided by 1000 to normalize). Interestingly, it doesn't change much from the overall sum lists. Top 20 values SC2 (ALL) 11,78497059 MGS2 (ALL) 9,963669421 GTAVC (ALL) 8,966223301 GTA3 (ALL) 8,797510417 OoT (ALL) 8,100826531 GTAVC (COR) 8,023591892 FF7 (ALL) 7,857852632 GTA3 (COR) 7,854739766 SMB3 (ALL) 7,330120482 LttP (ALL) 7,317333333 HALO (ALL) 7,177301075 GTAVC (-X) 7,08102439 GTA3 (-X) 6,912 SMW (ALL) 6,73445 FF6 (ALL) 6,669108434 MP (GC) 6,627705128 SMB (ALL) 6,290680556 SA2 (ALL) 6,111918605 FFX (PS2) 6,005194805 ZWW (GC) 5,590140845 Top 20 games - single platform MP (GC) 6,627705128 FFX (PS2) 6,005194805 ZWW (GC) 5,590140845 GTAVC (PS2) 5,415 SSBM (GC) 5,41059322 FF7 (PSX) 5,391753846 HALO (XBOX) 5,27716129 KH (PS2) 5,160358209 S3&K (GEN) 4,987890625 SC2 (GC) 4,916363636 CT (SNES) 4,830867925 GTA3 (PS2) 4,62722 MGS2 (PS2) 4,518017857 SMB3 (NES) 4,466020833 FF6 (SNES) 4,280897959 OoT (N64) 4,079716981 FF8 (PSX) 4,065639344 OoT (GC) 4,0328 LttP (SNES) 3,995022222 SM (SNES) 3,814534884 A few comments: on multiplatform charts, Soul Calibur 2 still dominates. Also, notice how OoT is twice in the second list - meaning it's probably stronger than this list would indicate. What this all of this show? That Soul Calibur 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, one of the GTA or even Metroid Prime are going to win? No, but I think this somewhat shows they are more dangerous than what we think. Maybe we should look forward to some upsets in the Contest. Finally, if you have any idea of a smart way to mix scores for a game on different platforms to get a reasonable "average", don't hesitate to suggest. ^^ --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:40:10 AM | Message Detail |
| MK2
Arcade better make this...as an arcade game it was one of the best
fighters in terms of popularity as well as its mark in gaming history. I know it cant win, but seeing it in the bracket with a lower seed is still a victory for it, cause it belongs! --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards Trivia Rank #23 "Join the Nintendo Fun Club, Mac!" -Doc, Punch-Out! |
| From: Seadragon76 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:41:54 AM | Message Detail |
| First off, damn! That's some number crunching Heroic Tails. *hugs steve illimina for cheering on MK2 Arcade* --- Uncle Seadragon wants you to support Fighting games in the 2004 Spring contest! |
| From: Ngamer64 | Posted: 2/29/2004 7:43:12 AM | Message Detail |
| Hm...
steve makes a good point, one that I hadn't considered before. CJay
has, indeed, been hyping this as a "Greatest Game Contest," where in
the past he has always stressed the tournaments as being mere
popularity contests. Now, maybe he's just trying to capitalize on the
Simpsons reference and all that, but then again... Perhaps this is a sign of things to come. Like, instead of going with the ultra-popular recent titles, he's going to be more likely to include the "great," highly influential video games of the past. Certainly something to keep in mind as we look forward to midnight tonight. --- the-elite.net Ngamer's Contest Archives: http://geocities.com/cyber1166/gamefaqs |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 2/29/2004 8:24:20 AM | Message Detail |
| Greatness
is in the eye of the beholder... I'd consided "greatest" and "favorite"
equivalents, since if you find a game greater than the other, odds are
it's your favorite out of the two. And I can't believe I forgot to mention Chrono Trigger. I had it on my mind, too. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Nominations: CT, FF6, LoZ:OoT, Metroid Prime, Diablo 2, SH, S3&K, MZM, SMB3, SA2 |
| From: FastFalcon05 | Posted: 2/29/2004 8:39:59 AM | Message Detail |
| I'll
admit I'm not the most ardent figter game player, but I'm wondering why
Tekken is not even being mentioned? I love those games, and why that
may be influenced by Nina Williams, I've played tag tournament, and 4,
and I think its just as good as mortal kombat or street fighter ever
was. Unfortunately, I have a feeling, Ryu's popularity against Kazuya's, or was it heihachi?, performance suggests otherwise... --- Was nokia trying to prove that something can be made worse than x-box? ~Darkbaconslayer on N-Gage |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 2/29/2004 8:41:14 AM | Message Detail |
| Kazuya was blown out by Scorpion, who's definitely not a powerhouse. Ummm... if a Tekken game makes the cut, that's just a given point. --- SpC2K4 Status --- Nominations: CT, FF6, LoZ:OoT, Metroid Prime, Diablo 1 & 2, SH, S3&K, MZM, SMB3, SA2 |
| From: Who Cares? | Posted: 2/29/2004 8:50:54 AM | Message Detail |
| It was because Kazuya was destroyed by Scorpion in 2K2 which makes the talk of Tekken irrelevant. Virtua Fighter also won't get mentioned because of how Akira was destroyed by Knuckles in 2K2. For the most part, I can't really see any other fighting game I didn't list getting in. |
| From: Qwaar | Posted: 2/29/2004 9:26:06 AM | Message Detail |
| Yes,
games that significantly contributed should be what we're looking for
in the contest.Stuff link Pong, Space Invaders, Defender Of The Crown,
Populous, Donkey Kong, Breakout, Pac-Man, Asteroids and of course the
game that nearly killed the consoles, Zool. --- "Hobbes, she stumbled into the perimeter of wisdom.Run!" |
| From: DomaDragoon | Posted: 2/29/2004 9:36:09 AM | Message Detail |
| Stuff
link Pong, Space Invaders, Defender Of The Crown, Populous, Donkey
Kong, Breakout, Pac-Man, Asteroids and of course the game that nearly
killed the consoles, Zool. Yes, but we probably won't see many of those. Defenders Of The Crown got a recent remake, but it had a chilly reception. Populous was Bullfrog's first truly great game, but almost nobody remembers it today. Breakout is almost 1-player Pong to some people. And I don't think you'll find 20 people on the boards who know who Zool is. (He's the little ninja-looking dude with red rings around his eyes, right?). The fact is that GameFAQs skews towards a younger audience, and so the really old games don't stand much of a chance. The true classics will probably get some recognition (Pong most likely), but they'll be overshadowed by the newer games. --- RPGP/RPGDL Contributor "DragoonJay"; Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) Chanting Monks www.rpgdl.com |
| From: Fantusta | Posted: 2/29/2004 10:20:19 AM | Message Detail |
| One-time contributions: I think, unfortunately, that the audience here will give FF7 just too much. Many even more recent Nintendo fanboys don't realize that SMB3 was so amazing; so it will split with Mario 64 in an odd way. Personally, I enjoyed Link to the Past much more than Ocarina of Time; I thought it was a better game through and through. Though I loved both. I do see Ocarina having a much better chance this contest. If only this site had a DDR crowd... --- "All in all, sometimes it's a wonder that pesants[sic] actually live long enough to learn how to farm....."-mysterygilgamesh4 {34} |
| From: Qwaar | Posted: 2/29/2004 10:25:52 AM | Message Detail |
| Speaking of great Bullfrog games, anyone heard of Syndicate? I used to play it, probably my fave action game ever. --- "Hobbes, she stumbled into the perimeter of wisdom.Run!" |
| From: cyko | Posted: 2/29/2004 10:56:04 AM | Message Detail |
| nice averages, Heroic Tails!! Greatness is in the eye of the beholder... I'd consided "greatest" and "favorite" equivalents, since if you find a game greater than the other, odds are it's your favorite out of the two. Yes, games that significantly contributed should be what we're looking for in the contest.Stuff link Pong, Space Invaders, Defender Of The Crown, Populous, Donkey Kong, Breakout, Pac-Man, Asteroids and of course the game that nearly killed the consoles, Zool. i agree with Slowflake on this one. best and greatest and favorite are all pretty much the same thing. with that in mind, i'd take Super Smash Bros. Melee and Soul Calibur 2 over Space Invaders and Galaga any day. now, if it was Most Influential Game Ever, then i might care about games like Pong and the original Super Mario Bros. and how much they contributed to the history of video games. then i would support Breakout all the way. but that's a different contest. If only this site had a DDR crowd... oh, it does, it does. i think Dance Dance Revolution might have more nominations than any other Arcade game; at least from what i've seen so far. i, for one, nominated DDR. i think it's guaranteed to make the contest and possibly even win a match. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 2/29/2004 11:27:29 AM | Message Detail |
| Ok,
I'm not sure that people are interested in this, but I continue
experimenting with the data I gathered. The objective is of course to
find a way I'll judge reasonable (= with rankings that seem ok) to take
into account both averages and number of reviews. In my last ranking list, I feel the number of review had too much weight; that's why I tried to multiply the average not with the overall sum, but with the logarithm of the number of reviews. The results are really interesting, and I think closer to reality. This gives the following list, where I got rid of doubles: Soul Calibur 2 (4,57) GTA3 (4,37) Metal Gear Solid 2 (4,35) GTA Vice City (4,32) Ocarina of Time (4,17) Super Mario Bros 3 (4,15) FF7 (4,14) Link to the Past (4,14) Super Mario World (4,02) Metroid Prime (4,02) Super Mario Bros (4,00) Halo (3,98) FF6 (3,96) Super Smash Bros Melee (3,90) Chrono Trigger (3,86) FF10 (3,84) Wind Waker (3,78) Sonic Adventure 2 (3,76) Tetris (3,72) Kingdom Hearts (3,69) Sonic 3 & Knuckles (3,67) Super Metroid (3,54) Starcraft (3,53) FF8 (3,50) Super Mario 64 (3,41) Metal Gear Solid (3,41) Sonic & Knuckles (3,22) Sonic (3,15) Sonic 2 (3,09) Sonic 3 (2,89) Legend of Zelda (2,54) Civilization 3 (2,32) This list is mostly reasonable (if we don't consider that OoT and FF7 should crush the competition), except for three things: - Soul Calibur is still way too high. But then again, I'm really surprised at the number of reviews this game got on all platforms. - Chrono Trigger seems really too low, considering how well Crono and Magus did in the Summer Contest. Or ir it really the Dragon Ball picture that attracted votes? - Metroid Prime above Super Metroid? And that much? Unlikely. Considering Super Metroid has one the best averages, this really shows I should put even more weigh into averages, and less into the number of reviews. Which will work well to correct the two other problems too. Well, for those rare people who are interested, stay tuned for the next update! --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: cyko | Posted: 2/29/2004 11:39:55 AM | Message Detail |
| here's my take on the Fighting genre: Soul Calibur- Soul Calibur 2 is guaranteed to make it in and with support across all three currently main consoles, it has a shot at the Sweet 16, and maybe a long shot for the Elite 8. i've even been seeing a lot of nominations for the Dreamcast Soul Calibur and a few for the original Soul Blade. personally, i feel that a fighting game series doesn't need more than one representative, since most fighting games don't change that drastically from sequel to sequel (unless it goes from 2-D to 3-D). so hopefully the Dreamcast Soul Calibur doesn't absorb a second spot. Street Fighter 2- guaranteed to make it in, but the question is which one? i say Street Fighter 2 Turbo for SNES was the most popular and fastest version. either that or the Arcade SF2 Turbo. i can't really see the 3-d SF-EX or SF Alpha making it, though. SF2 will probably gate a high seed and probably make the Sweet 16, possibly Elite 8 with a lucky seeding. Super Smash Bros. Melee- huge sleeper hit here. fighting game purists might forget about it, but it's currently the #2 Gamecube FAQ and #2 Gamecube Message Board and hasn't left the Top 10 since it came out a year and a half ago. everyone knows it and very few hate it. this one could also make the Sweet 16 easily with the right path and maybe even further. a definite wild card here. Mortal Kombat- i think MK is also a lock to make it in. i mean come on, Scorpion didn't do that bad last year and there are plenty of MK fans on this board. again, i'm not sure which game in the series, though. the series' popularity did peak with MK 2, so i would guess Arcade MK2 or Genesis MK2 will make it. but i can't see it doing as well as SC2 or SF2 or SSBM. MK2 could win its first match, but that's about it. Marvel Vs. Capcom 2- M vs C2 has gotten quite a few nominations for Dreamcast and Arcade, so i think it should squeak into a low seed. but most magazine reviewers and fighting purists consider it too much of a button-mashing Fighter to be considered an elite fighting game. i think it could win its first match if it's lucky, but not any further. Virtua Fighter 4- this one is the critics and purists choice, but it didn't sell that many copies compared to other fighting games. if CJayC values the opinions of reviewers like EGM and Game Informer, than VF4 might sneak into a lot spot, but even if it does get a low spot, it won't win. i haven't seen that many nominations and the general public doesn't care about the series that much. Dead or Alive- well, CJayC did put Kasumi and Tina in the S2K2 Contest, so why not? i haven't seen many nominations, though, so i don't think it will make the cut though. a fighting game based around how "bouncy" it's characters are doesn't really deserve to be in this contest anyways. Guilty Gear XX- it's gotten some nominations, but not that many. it never sold that well and it's really not that well-known outside of these boards. i seriously doubt it will make it. King of Fighters- another purist favorite, but again, not very well-known outside the boards. slim chance of getting a low seed. Tekken- maybe if this contest was three or four years ago, but now noone cares about Tekken anymore. there's too many better fighting games out there. very slim chances of even making it in. Killer Instinct- >_> .......what? it was a fun game!! okay, okay. no chance. --- Please go nominate Secret of Mana for SNES. Right Now. A Cheese Legend of Trivia 12 |
| From: Din Mostoll | Posted: 2/29/2004 12:05:36 PM | Message Detail |
| "If only this site had a DDR crowd..." Try being a Crazy Taxi fan. As a whole, we're screwed. --- "Throw the rules out the window, odds are you'll go that way too." -Max Payne in Max Payne 2 |
| From: Cromage | Posted: 2/29/2004 12:12:56 PM | Message Detail |
| Something else to think about..... How do the popularity of the games compare with that of the characters? It's an accepted opinion that Gordon does worse in a character contest than Half-life would do in a game contest, but what about the others? First of all, I believe that silent protagonists (such as Link and Crono) are near-perfect representatives of a game's popularity. The main character in general tends to represent the series, but in certain places, it gets a little fuzzy. Take Cloud for example. He represents Final Fantasy 7 in general, but he has other things going for him. A person deciding whether or not to vote for him would take his attitude, "Every-man" background, huge-ass sword, and anime appearance into account. Only secondly would come the analysis of the game, where the person might remember the easy boss battles, straight-forward dungeons, and unimpressive battle system. But when the game itself is on the line, the factors will be reversed. Conclusion? Final Fantasy 7 will not do as well as people think. It's a serious contender, but it WILL fall, sooner or later. Some people argue that Mario is an inaccurate representative of his series. I disagree. Not is he better suited than any other characters from his series (the only one who made it past the 3nd round and one of two who made it past the 2nd), but Mario's whole cartoony style meshes perfectly with the light-hearted nature of the game. Anti-Mario votes came from people who didn't think the games were all that great, not from people who truly enjoyed them. The thing is, Final Fantasy 7 is a "pure" RPG, the way I define pure RPGs (i.e. simple battle system, and intriguing story with fantasy elements). Mario games are "pure" platformers, and the earlier ones are side-scrollers. (intense, reflex-based battle system with no story). They are made to appeal to different types of gamers. But what about games that bridge the gap? Theoretically, these games could be a flop, unable to attract ANYone if they split their concentration too strongly between gameplay and storyline. But if they succeed...... ..... Then you'd have something like Zelda. Ocarina of Time in particular, which had a more "fantasy" feel than ALttP. Enjoyable to play, endearing, creative, and serious. It was even remade for the GameCube for the most recent gamers. Link himself had a lot of barriers to overcome in the contest. The ever-present anti-Nintendo factor, the anti-champion factor, and the anti-kiddie factor, thanks to his recent game. In this upcoming contest, two of the three obstacles will be obliterated, and OoT will do better, while FF7 will do worse. This is my theory. In general, RPG characters do better than regular ones..... but will RPG GAMES do better than the others? --- "Cromage remains as violent as ever. I feel like I'm either in a B movie romance or a slasher flick. Or both."--Villainous Magus |
| From: Team Rocket Elite | Posted: 2/29/2004 1:31:47 PM | Message Detail |
| Some
people argue that Mario is an inaccurate representative of his series.
I disagree. Not is he better suited than any other characters from his
series (the only one who made it past the 3nd round and one of two who
made it past the 2nd), but Mario's whole cartoony style meshes
perfectly with the light-hearted nature of the game. Anti-Mario votes
came from people who didn't think the games were all that great, not
from people who truly enjoyed them. Mario may represent the series, but how well does he represent individual games? SMB3 is considered to be the best in the series and it came out about 14 years ago. Does Mario's current popularity still represent SMB3? Also it's popularity has remained constant during the past few yesr on GameFAQs: What's your favorite Super Mario game?(Febuary 27, 2003) http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1181 Which Super Mario game do you think is the best of all time?(September 9, 2002) http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1010 Which Super Mario game is your favorite?(August 23, 2000) http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=267 This is my theory. In general, RPG characters do better than regular ones..... but will RPG GAMES do better than the others? Based on this poll: What's your favorite game genre of all?(October 7, 2003) http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/poll/index.asp?poll=1401 RPG games are by far the most popular. --- http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/contest/contest_spr04_nom.asp Nominate Pokemon for GameFAQ's Spring 2004 Contest!! |
| From: Haste2 | Posted: 2/29/2004 3:41:12 PM | Message Detail |
| And
has anyone noticed that their are far more powerhouses for games than
their are for characters? The percentages for correct matches in the
later rounds will be much, much, uglier than in the past. Well, I think Super Smash Bros. Melee will do very well. I guess it's partly due to my bias of the game, but I thought people would expect more from this game. Very few people hate this game, except for some of the most hardcore fighting game fans. As for Suikoden or other less-played RPGs, I don't see them having a chance. I think Suikoden II could very well make it in the contest, since it seems that most who've played it are nominating it. People who haven't played it won't vote for it. As much as I'd hate to admit, I don't think Xenogears has much of a chance, either. I have pretty high expectations for FFX, as Tidus did very well for being such a lame hero. FFX will not do worse than Tidus, and probably better. --- "Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?" "Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." |
| From: Who Cares? | Posted: 2/29/2004 3:53:11 PM | Message Detail |
| I too think of SSB Meele as a big wildcard in this contest. I just left it of my list earlier because I don't consider it as a true member of the fighting genre, but rather as a genre of it's own because of its unqiue play style. But for the most part, anyone sleeping on this game come tourney time will be quite foolish. |
| From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 3/1/2004 4:29:04 AM | Message Detail |
| I'm
sorry to continue with my statistics, but there is simply no way I can
contribute something to the fighting games discussion going on here,
because of my lack of knowlegde of this genre. I won't bore you with details though. But the interesting fact is that Soul Calibur 2 is almost always on the lead (the only ones to challenge it are both GTA, Metroid Prime, FF10 and SSBM, depending of the complex formulas I use, with FF7 and OoT often a little behind, but still behind). So, here is my question: Why does Soul Calibur 2 have so many more good reviews than any other game I looked at? Is it due to its presence on all consoles? In that case, why doesn't other multiplatforms games fare as well? Sonic Heroes is extremely GC-oriented, and its reviews are mixed. Prince of Persia is evenly spread accross all game systems with very good reviews too. Splinter Cell may have as much reviews as SC2, but is hindered by a way lower average (I'll include it in my stats soon) - while the number of "7 and below" reviews for SC2 can be counted on one hand. If you have ideas for other multiplatform games to consider, please contribute too. ^^ --- "I tried a SMB speed run once but I ran into the first Goomba and died because I forgot to jump. After that, I never tried again." - PsychoSwordsman |
| From: Cromage | Posted: 3/1/2004 11:16:05 AM | Message Detail |
| Does Mario's current popularity still represent SMB3? Yes. Mario represents the series, the memorable title of which is SMB3. Let me put it this way: last year, the memories of SMB3 were probably the primary factor to put Mario on top. But they weren't enough to save him from Sephy. The anti-voters either didn't like SMB3, or never played it, since it is too old (but hated Mario Sunshine or the like). These anti-voters will then shoot down SMB3 equally as hard as they did Mario. Zelda is slightly different, since its most popular title (OoT) represents the "new age" of gaming, and therefore is easier to remake into the most recent consoles (while SMB3 has to make do with the GBA). Then Link enters SCII, but that's another story entirely. RPG games are by far the most popular. That's easily explainable. RPG titles stack up together against specific games. Most action and adventure games are complete flops, unlike the higher success rate of RPGs. (Not to mention the fact that "Action" and "Adventure" are quite hard to define) The conspicuous lack of platformers and FPS games shows that the poll is incomplete. The title of "RPG" is specific enough to trigger good memories, but vague enough to encompass even games that aren't technically RPGs (including the Zelda games, which have the RPG feel and the Adventurish gameplay). This only partially represents the popularity of the individual games themselves. Indikaze: Meh. Let her have her crazy theory until it gets shot down in flames come April. >_> Shut it, you. --- http://crolapras.tripod.com/archivist.html ~Archivist of the SC2k3 board..... a year late. |
| From: smitelf | Posted: 3/1/2004 11:41:54 AM | Message Detail |
| Also,
to whoever said Pokémon games were borderline - What is a RPG for you?
Pokémon Games are clearly RPGs, and online battles* requiere much more
thought than the majority of FF games. PC: Baldur’s Gate, Planescape: Torment, Diablo (hack ‘n slash) Console: Xenosaga, Final Fantasy series, Zelda games (adventure RPG) Handheld: Golden Sun Okay, explain to me what similarities Pokemon has to any of the above. I never said RPGs required the most thought of any game genre, either. How does requiring thought automatically make it an RPG? If you want to classify Pokemon as an RPG, go ahead, but I didn’t play Pokemon for the story. I played it for the strategy aspects. BTW, I love Pokemon. I’ve spent hundreds of hours playing it. I just don’t think it qualifies as an RPG. --- "Your fate is sealed, and none but yours." -- Auron |
| From: DaruniaTheKing | Posted: 3/1/2004 11:46:20 AM | Message Detail |
| Okay, explain to me what similarities Pokemon has to any of the above Stats. RPGs are based about stats and using them for battles, not for the story or whatnow. Story makes a book, not a gaming genre. --- Laura loves Hamtaro WAY too much, don't you think? *wink wink* AIM: DaruniaTheK1ng |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 3/1/2004 11:48:35 AM | Message Detail |
| Some good points are brought up! Fighting games: No way anything from Tekken, Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter, Guilty Gear, Samurai Shodown, King of Fighters, Killer Instinct, SNK Vs Capcom, etc or any lesser series belongs in this contest. I like most of these too, but the fact is, they are solid series/games and nothing more. Look for Soul Caliber 2 (though Soul Caliber for Dreamcast is slightly greater if you consider how good it was for its time and without it, Dreamcast would have died right at the start) Look also for Mortal Kombat 2 arcade. This was the one that peeps remember, and it was better then the rest of them. Sure the first one was what got Congress talking so its historical worth is greater, but on the whole, it did not play very well. MK2 most certainly did play well. As for Street Fighter...gotta go with the original and best...that being SF2 Arcade. This created a genre in itself, had a movie, an anime flick, toys and about 1000 offshoot games and series and copycats. What more needs to be said? Classic games, I see some peeps agreeing with me on this, and I do hope Ceej puts them in there. They are what great games really are, and the fanboy driven votes will hopefully carry less weight than what is truly right and practical. Fanboys will vote for every FF, every Mario, every Zelda. Every real gamer knows not every FF, every Mario and every Zelda belongs. More than one of each? Yes. All of them? Heck no! We shall see soon, wont we? --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards Trivia Rank #23 "Join the Nintendo Fun Club, Mac!" -Doc, Punch-Out! |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 3/1/2004 11:55:40 AM | Message Detail |
| More comments! RPG's: Suikoden II is a purely great game, and belongs as a low seed. I dont see it winning a round though...not enough diehards to beat the mainstream. It could beat Zero Wing though...hehe Xenogears/Xenosaga, any of the Mana's, and Skies of Arcadia are all solid games, but not great enough to be on a greatest games tourney. Lesser tier stuff dont belong either...Valkyrie Profile, Dragon Warriors, Disgaea, Lufia, Lunar, Arc The Lad, Tales of Destiny, Vagrant Story, Dark Cloud, etc. Speaking of Zero Wing...this garbage had better not make it. Having trash like this on here would spoil the contest and prove Ceej caters to the idiot fanboys. Most of these so called fanboys are bandwagon jumpin dorks who prolly never played the game anyway. The only good thing to come of that game is Slowflake's HILARIOUS N-Waste parody of it. Pokemon Red/Blue should make it. They were the first, and they spawned enough stuff from a historical standpoint to make it, but they deserve a 13 seed at best. More talk to come later! --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards Trivia Rank #23 "Join the Nintendo Fun Club, Mac!" -Doc, Punch-Out! |
| From: Slowflake | Posted: 3/1/2004 12:55:16 PM | Message Detail |
| That parody was not mine. I found it lying on the Zero Wing board and brought it here. I can't wait to see the bracket. Then I guess everyone will post their analysis, and no one will jump to the same conclusions. "Well, it looks as though Super Mario 64 will face Chrono Trigger in the third round..." "FOOL! Starcraft will annihilate SM64, before claiming 45% of the vote against CT!" --- SpC2K4 Status --- Nominations: CT, FF6, LoZ:OoT, Metroid Prime, Diablo 1 & 2, SH, S3&K, MZM, SMB3, SA2 |
| From: steve illumina | Posted: 3/1/2004 1:45:25 PM | Message Detail |
| Sorry Slowflake! I thought it was yours! Bring on the bracket Ceej! I am ready! --- Trivia XII: Neo Diehards...SC2K4: Go MK II Arcade! "A real gamer...standing tall against fanboys for over 20 years!" |
| From: FastFalcon05 | Posted: 3/1/2004 2:30:18 PM | Message Detail |
| pokemon
red/blue at 13? eh, I wound't be surprised if they were much higher.
the whole pokemon craze was ridiculous, and it still somewhat ongoing.
I would say they have a strong chance of doing well. maybe... And, I havne't played soul calibour, is it worth getting, my bd is soon, so it is really that good? and Super smash brothers will own your souls! --- Was nokia trying to prove that something can be made worse than x-box? ~Darkbaconslayer on N-Gage |
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