Summer 2003 Contest
Summer Contest Discussion - Off-Season Topic
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From: Cromage | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:03:52 PM | Message Detail
Remove Kefka and Ramza, if any. They will never win again.

I personally think you're underestimating Pac-man.... why should HE stay if Kefka goes?

And Shake.... I agree with you on some points, and disagree with you on others.

First of all, did you know being a Magus fan is the only thing keeping you from being made anatomically female? With a blunt butter knife? ^_^

Ehhhh..... sorry about that. I believe it was more towards you calling Magus a side-kick than anything else.

But dynamics is NOT enough for the likes of a Frog-Magus swap. And DEFINATELY enough for a Blight-Vercetti swap. Non-RPG-gamers are just going to say "Suiko-what?" and get mad that yet another RPG character has taken the place of the not-so-loveable mob boss.

Not only that, but if dynamics alone could be justification for ANYthing, applying it to characters only 1 year old would, IMO, not be suited. They've just not been tested enough. Even two-year characters are still mysterious. For all we know, Crono could be a titan that could take down Link if he only got past Mario. >_>

I honestly think that Delita's performance would be exactly the same as Ramza's. Thanks to the relative obscurity of FFT, Ramza's main character-ness just won't help him so much. But maybe that's a good justification for a change.

I also think Aeris shouldn't be in it last year. Having 3 characters from one SERIES is saying something (i.e Link, Ganon, Zelda), but C/S/A just don't count as series characters, since they've only starred in one FF game, and KH was more of an All-Star game more than a thorough redrawn story. KH helped get their names out to casual gamers--no more.

Along the lines of Aeris is Yuna.

And about the bye system..... I don't trust it. There will always be SOME flaw in the setup, and having the actual match will help to smooth it out.....

Of course, this whole situation is purely theoretical. I'd bet my plastic sword that CjayC will never see any of these suggestions......
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From: Who Cares? | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:05:41 PM | Message Detail
I agree with Shake, I would rather see a bracket with a lot more unpredictability. IMO, I'd love it if at least 1/4 of the bracket is full of new characters. And Shake mentioned, if a secondary/supporting character has not proven themselves to be Sweet 16 material, then lets dump them in favor of another supporting character or a completely new character altogether.

The one character I specifically think about in this subject is Ken. What's the point of keeping him around to be fodder for a high ranking opponent? I personally would rather see Chun-Li, who I think is closer Ryu (and could be more popular). What could it hurt to see her give it a go as opposed to watching Ken fail a third straight year. Same with Tails & possibly Knuckles. Tails is clearly on the downside of his popularity, it couldn't hurt to replace him with Robotnik/Eggman and see how he fairs. And Scorpion, we know he was a fluke, so why not dump him for Sub-Zero or Raiden or maybe a Guilty Gear character?

Simply put, we've had two years to see how can and can't, and those who can't should be sent packing. I hope we see a bunch of characters from the newer hits of the past year as well as other characters that have been neglected these past two years.
From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:09:26 PM | Message Detail
Feasable yes, fun? No. Realyl, no offense whatsoever, but I may be the only one who enjoys seeing blow outs, laughing at the weak characters, and having the first big match of the year mean nothing, like link vs aiai, that was fun. I may have misunderstood you, but if I read correctly you are just cutting down on the matches? O_o. Or am I mistaken? I like to see every match, eve if it wouldnt be the most even of match ups, and I think that makes it fun and leaves room for more upsets, like squall for example. I know I am not much for discussions or anything, and I am sorry for presenting my idea in a rude way, that was wrong of me, eh. But I just feel that each match offers its own great place in the summer contest, and giving byes to so called strong characters is lame IMO because well, whats the fun in that? Feasable doesn't always mean best.

~ Chris
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"If at first you don't succeed, **** the world and smoke some weed ^_~" ~ AstralGirl
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:14:08 PM | Message Detail
Luca for Vercetti... no. Luca for say... Isaac. Yes. that'd be fair neough, keepign the same number of RPG characters yet taking out one who has proven they don't have what it takes to play this game. FF7 may not be a series unto itself (well of course its not), but Its far more powerful than almost anyother individual game. It will continue to have 3 representatives as long as Aeris proves to be strong enough to stay around and, quite obviously, she is. She's not winning the whole thing anytime soon (or ever) but she's still beating at least 2/3 of the characters in this contest. Changing this up will be great... chances are most everyone who made it to round two or further will stay and a large number of round 1 losers will go (except cats who will forver be a participant by laws unwritten). So if we say its time to trash an FF character its certainly not going to be C/S/A. Likely Yuna will go if FFX-2 is as bad as everyone expects (though I'm not sure why anyone should happen to think its bad and FF X was good since 10 was total crap too. X-2 a dissapointment? Only as much as the original), and perhaps Kefka though he deserves to stay (just not go gainst Crono or someone equally strong so soon)
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From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:40:04 PM | Message Detail
Whoa, Shake. Now that's just TOO radical. Replacing confirmed midcarders with cannon fodder, that's not okay with me.

As far as DK and Pac-Man getting the boot goes... sorry, they're legends. You just CAN'T make a contest without these two. Same reason I kept Crash and Gordon... Crash was more popular than Sonic at some point, and Gordon's game is of legendary status (just, not Gordon himself).
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Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/8/2003 3:04:35 PM | Message Detail
First, about the bye system.

And about the bye system..... I don't trust it. There will always be SOME flaw in the setup, and having the actual match will help to smooth it out.....

Well, it's not like I'm saying :

"Here's a match between Link and Aiai; but AiAi cannot win anyway, so let's scrap this match and declare Aiai the loser (and let's laugh at him too for a match he didn't fight)."

What we ARE suggesting is to change the structure of the bracket, so as to avoid the Link/AiAi matchup. Aiai would first go against a less stronger character like Bowser for example, but still strong enough to crush Aiai. And if the Link/Aiai matchup happened anyway, it would only mean that Aiai indeed has a chance against Link. The reasoning is a little like this : Link proved this year that he was most probably much stronger than Bowser. If someone cannot get past Bowser, how can he hope to defeat Link ? And is there that much a difference in watching Aiai being crushed by Bowser instead of Link, for those who enjoy blowouts ? I don't really think so.

And, of course, there are flaws in everything. But in this bye system, nobody will ever get something for nothing. A character who gets a bye (allowing him to enter the contest a little later) already proved its worth the year before by winning many matches. Consider this for instance a reward for doing well.

Feasable yes, fun? No. Realyl, no offense whatsoever, but I may be the only one who enjoys seeing blow outs, laughing at the weak characters, and having the first big match of the year mean nothing, like link vs aiai, that was fun. I may have misunderstood you, but if I read correctly you are just cutting down on the matches? O_o. Or am I mistaken?

There are still 64 matches; so where's the difference ? Basically, if you go by seeding it's like :

16 to 11 seeds : you see them only once, just as in the bracket system.
10 and 9 seeds : +1 match in the bye system.
8 and 7 seeds : same as the bracket system.
6 and 5 seeds : +1 match in the bye system.
4 and 3 seeds : same as the bracket system.
2 and 1 seeds : -2 matches.

What does it say really ? It says that you get to see middle characters more (and thus more close matches - but you still have as well the fun of 5 and 6 seeds crushing 15 and 16 seeds, like Bowser and Aiai in my example above; it's just that the fodder won't be crushed as badly. That's why also the first match of the year would still mean nothing.), at the cost of having the few elites not crushing unworthy opponents.

I like to see every match

See my answer to Cromage. Characters are not declared losers without fighting. The very strong are just entering the contest later.

eve if it wouldnt be the most even of match ups, and I think that makes it fun and leaves room for more upsets, like squall for example. I know I am not much for discussions or anything, and I am sorry for presenting my idea in a rude way, that was wrong of me, eh. But I just feel that each match offers its own great place in the summer contest, and giving byes to so called strong characters is lame IMO because well, whats the fun in that? Feasable doesn't always mean best.

Upsets are still very possible, because byes aren't given to "so-called" strong characters, but to effectively strong characters, since they all already went very far in the contest, only it was the year before. Squall in this system would have to start at the bottom the first year. People underestimating him would make some upsets; he would probably go far and earn a bye for the following year. But then, everybody would know he's strong right, because of the upsets in the previous contest ? Hell, even this year, lots of people, outside of the contest board, chose him to win the "upset" matches.

<continue>
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/8/2003 3:07:37 PM | Message Detail
So anyway, there wouldn't be any upset possible the next year, so giving him a bye (and only one, since he didn't go THAT far) won't change anything in the end - on the contrary, we just got rid of a completely predictable match, and replaced it with one between two middle characters, probably more difficult to call. Even if you enjoy completely uneven matches, enough is enough. The bye systems just get rid of some of these horribly unbalanced matches (not all) and replace them with more interesting ones.

One final statistics, the repartition of close/unfair matches according to seeds (for each division) :

Bye system :
11 seed difference : 1 match
9 seed difference : 1 match
7 seed difference : 2 matches
5 seed difference : 2 matches
3 seed difference : 4 matches
1 seed difference : 5 matches

Bracket system :
15 seed difference : 1 match
13 seed difference : 1 match
11 seed difference : 1 match
9 seed difference : 1 match
7 seed difference : 2 matches
5 seed difference : 2 matches
3 seed difference : 3 matches
1 seed difference : 4 matches

I'm sorry if I tend to write too much, but thank you anyway if you read this.

Now, the characters that make it/not make it next year. It will be much shorter, because many good points have already been made. :)

It's true that the most unpredictable, the better (well, that's one of the things I've been defending all along with the bye systems). The fact is, if you change too much, you'll only get changes in the first round. Most of the new characters will suck and lose from the beginning. There is a reason why these 64 made it to the SC2K3 through nominations. Of course, you can change even more of them so that it lasts till the second round, but then it means you'll get to see a lot of crappy matches, everytime a strong character from this year defeats one of these newbies. Also, characters in this contest are supposed to be popular to begin with, except when cursed with a 15 or 16 seed...

Like Who Cares ? suggested, 1/4 of new characters (16) shouldn't be too much though, I think, and still allow lots of novelty. I also agree that legends should stay in the contest, no matter how bad they perform. But I wouldn't call Gordon a legend though, because it's somewhat difficult to link the character with the game...

Get rid of Tails ? He's far from the bottom 16 ! Problem is, bottom 16 is essentially made of "legends" of gaming... Well, after much thoughts, I disagree with your idea, Slowfake. Let's just get rid of these oldies, and keep the real good characters ! </jk>
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/8/2003 3:10:33 PM | Message Detail
Wow, I didn't think it would be this long. I should learn concision.
From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 11/9/2003 4:17:49 AM | Message Detail
bumpin'
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He may be missed..... or he may not. Such is the life here. Ripples in a pond quickly disappear, whether caused by a pebble or a meteor strike.
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 5:41:26 AM | Message Detail
I used Blight/Vercetti and some others as a general example. What I'm rooting for is a different philosofy to the contest, not for specific characters to be replaced.

Although I don't want to replace them all with "cannon-fodder", I believe there are worthy characters abound.

I don't especially like "mid-carters". There's a saying in Holland : Too big for the napkin, too small for the tablecloth.

I think there are characters we haven't used that can draw just as many votes as Ness, Resetti, Pac-man..etc, etc

And I think that if you DO replace a character, you should replace them with someone similar if possible, otherwise replace them with someone from a new game.

I'll go over them one by one. I'll display what I would do, but its really about a different way of thinking about what it takes to be re-invited.

AIAI : Out, Replace with a new lead guy altogether, such as Viewtifull Joe or another popular newcomer.

Link : Staying. No need to discuss.

Pikachu : Bombed in the first round. Replace with Mewtwo. Probably not better, but draws less hate then the not-so-Mighty mouse. Let's find out. I think pokemon definately deserves a representative, but not two. So this is IMO the best solution.

Fox Mcloud : Probably doesn't have a prair into making it into the Sweet 16, but I would keep him. Fox Mcloud goes way back, and the series deserves 1 representative.

Tidus : Meg Ryan has impressed, and Final Fantasy X deserves a representative , and looking how well Tidus has done I could swallow a second character.

Ganondorf : Good performance, and LoZ deserves 2 characters. Maybe even 3, if there was one worthy enough.

Sam Fischer Worst 3 seed ever. Although he can't be blamed for his seeding, he is out. Replace with another lead character in his genre. Whatever it is...O_o Shooter?

Squall Leonhart Deserves to be in. It pains me to say it, FF VIII doesn't waarent a second character.

Jill Valentine Replace with either Criss, Claire, or give the Silent Hill series a face with a lead of one of the games.

Luigi : Replace. Doesn't have his brothers charisma or drawing power. The first thought that entered my mind when I saw the bracket this year was that Point and Click Aventures doesn't have a SINGLE representative.

I know Guybrush Threepwood bombed in 2002, but lets either put him, Lechuck, Leisure Suit Larry or Manny Calavera (*YAY*</biased>) in.

Ratchet : Replace with Jak. Jak II has received great reviews, and Jak is just as deserving as Ratchet, who has proven he doesn't have what it takes. Lets see what Jak can do.

KOS-MOS I say we replace KOS-MOS with Id, although I have never played Xenogears/Saga, so I'm iffy on this one.

Crash Bandicoot : One of the characters I hate most. ^_^

But that's not the point. he was the mascot to the Playstation, and his series deserves a character. But I do think he doesn't draw enough votes.

I'll need input on this one. Replace with Rayman?

Samus Aran Staying. NNTD.

Isaac : Replace with Luca Blight. ^_~

This concludes the North Division. I'll do the rest later.






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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/9/2003 5:48:50 AM | Message Detail
Hmm... interesting... well, I still think byes suck but you explain yourself very well =P. I am a fan of the theory called "if its not broke, you don't fix it" and I think the bracket system is nice... sooo yah lmao, I am out of my league here
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"If at first you don't succeed, **** the world and smoke some weed ^_~" ~ AstralGirl
From: DaruniaTheKing | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:03:15 AM | Message Detail
Sam Fischer: Worst 3 seed ever

Doubtfu.. he was a 4 seed. You're talking about the wrong Sam ^_~
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:04:43 AM | Message Detail
Serious Sam was a 3 seed
Sam Fisher was a 4 seed

just to clear things up
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Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:05:16 AM | Message Detail
hey, I just realized heroic tails is the guy who runs that cool lck tournament, :O!
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"If at first you don't succeed, **** the world and smoke some weed ^_~" ~ AstralGirl
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:16:22 AM | Message Detail
4-seed Schmour seed....*grumble grumble*

^_~

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. My brain is funny that way.
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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:17:34 AM | Message Detail
Who should stay and who should go

North

Link - Didn't win this year, but should stay

AiAi - Replace him with another punch bag

Pikachu - If you want pokemon in this contest try Mewtwo he's better so replace Pika with Mewtwo

Fox - Stays, but might not be seeded really high

Tidus - Stays almost beated Ganondorf

Ganondorf - Stays almost beated Magus

Sam Fisher - One of the worst 4th seed ever replace

Magus - Stays he has some popularity

Squall - Stays beated someone that was a former sweet 16 and Luigi

Jill Valentine - Stays, but have a weaker seed

Luigi - Stays, but should be weaker seed

Ratchet - Replace

Samus - Stays Almost 40% on Link

Isaac - Replace

More to come latter
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From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:18:35 AM | Message Detail
oops

KOS-MOS - Stays

Crash - Stays
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Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:25:47 AM | Message Detail
East

Cloud - Stays he's the Champion

CATS - Stays or the CATS army will have CjayC head

Auron - Stays

Tails - Replace been in this for 2 years and had never won a match

Bowser - Stay good villian expect him to get to the sweet 16

Ness - Replace

Yoshi - Stay Good character can sometimes get to the sweet 16 depends on his opponent

Conker - Replace

Sora - Replace KH won't help her

Aeris - Stay, but not as an 11 seed

Master Cheif - Replace almost got defeated by Felix

Felix - Replace

Zero - Stay

Scorpion - Replace maybe Sub-Zero

Sonic - Stays

Ken - Replace with another street fighter
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Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:31:37 AM | Message Detail
South

Mario - Stay he's Nintendo's Mascot

Captain Olimar - Replace

Wario - Replace

Shadow - Stay Did good against Mario

Pac-Man - Stay you can't leave the old school of old school out of this contest

Kefka - Stay

Crono - Stay

Tom Nook - Replace he got slaughtered

Alucard - stays

Bomberman - Replace bomberman has bombed his last contest

Kiby - stays

Ramza - Replace more peole thought that he'll do better

Gordon - Replace got defeated by a 14 seed last year

Max - Replace

Sephiroth - Stays

Raziel - Replace lost in both years
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From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:36:28 AM | Message Detail
West

Soild Snake - stay

Raiden - Replace

Knuckles - Stay, but should stay clear away from snake

Yuna - Replace we only need 1 FFX person

Ryu - Stay

Duke - Replace

Dante - Stay

Ryo - Replace with his match against Dante he should be ashame

Donkey Kong - Stay

Vyse - Replace

Tommy Vercetti - Stay, but a lower seed

Kite - Replace

Lara Croft - Stay, but weaker

Zelda - Stay almost did 40% on Mega Man

Mega Man - Stay

Mr. Resetti - Replace AC is done
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Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:38:13 AM | Message Detail
Stay - 36
Replace - 28
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Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:38:23 AM | Message Detail
To Sir Chris :
well, yes, the bracket system works quite well too, that's true, but I'm a perfectionnist. ;)

Sam Fischer Worst 3 seed ever. Although he can't be blamed for his seeding, he is out. Replace with another lead character in his genre. Whatever it is...O_o Shooter?

Problem, I don't really who to change him with. Splinter Cell was last year's game though, so it could be changed.

Luigi : Replace. Doesn't have his brothers charisma or drawing power. The first thought that entered my mind when I saw the bracket this year was that Point and Click Aventures doesn't have a SINGLE representative.

I know Guybrush Threepwood bombed in 2002, but lets either put him, Lechuck, Leisure Suit Larry or Manny Calavera (*YAY*</biased>) in.

I agree Guybrush Threepwood should be in there, but he shouldn't take Luigi's spot. Luigi is not so bad. And we start changing characters of Luigi's strength, we will run out of ideas for new characters before the end.

Crash Bandicoot : One of the characters I hate most. ^_^

But that's not the point. he was the mascot to the Playstation, and his series deserves a character. But I do think he doesn't draw enough votes.

I'll need input on this one. Replace with Rayman?

Rayman is a very good idea, and I wonder why he was in none of the first two contests. I'd say keep Crash, and put Rayman somewhere else.

I agree with the rest, but you didn't say anything about Magus, so I'll do it :

Magus Stay. It's pretty previous Chrono Trigger is hugely popular here, and deserve 2 characters, if not 3.

I'll continue with the other division if you don't mind... I won't comment on 1 and 2 seeds.

CATS Keep. This is funny.

Auron Auron did well enough to stay, even if not Sweet 16 material. I think FFX deserves 2 characters too.

Miles "Tails" Prower I'd say keep but... Well, he didn't do so well the first two years. Even though he got bracket bad luck, the farther he may ever go is second round. Change with Robotnik/Eggman.

Bowser Stay. Sweet 16 material. And Mario's main villain.

Ness Kick. It was nice seeing him, but once is enough. Replace with Geno, another RPG/Nintendo character.

Yoshi Harder to call. He didn't do too well, and there are a lot of Nintendo characters here. I guess we could keep him though.

Conker Out. Replace with Joanna Dark, another Rare character.

Sora Replace with another RPG character. I'd say Ryu from Breath of Fire, but he'd get too many votes from people mixing him up with Street Fighter's Ryu.

Aeris Gainsborough Change with another FF7 character. Tifa, Red 13 or Vincent will do. Maybe Yuffie too (but I may be biased here).

Master Chief Keep. X-box need a representative.

Felix Replace with Ghaleon. Really Golden Sun's characters suck, they shouldn't be in this contest at all (I am completely biased here). Well, in fact keep him, I'll put Ghaleon somewhere else.

Zero Keep. Megaman needs two characters. Maybe even three.

Scorpion Change with Sub-Zero. Fighting games have lots of characters, it would be a waste not to use them, especially when several of them are popular.

Ken Change with Chun-Li. Same comments as for Scorpion.
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:38:33 AM | Message Detail
South Division

Captain Olimar Kick. Replace with Guybrush Threepwood for example. That would be a good spot.

Wario I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, he didn't do very well, and we already have lots of Nintendo characters. On the other hand, he is quite unique in the Nintendo universe. I'd keep him for this reason.

Shadow the Hedgehog Keep of course.

Pac-Man Keep. He's a legend

Kefka Keep as an old-school RPG representative. Or change with Cid. Cid is one of FF trademarks. He should do well.

Crono ...

Tom Nook Kick. One AC character is already too much. Change with Prince of Persia - both old-school and new-school, he should do not too bad.

Alucard Keep. He is the most popular from the Castlevania series, and imo, Castlevania deserves at least one spot, if not 2.

Bomberman Keep. He's sort of a legend.

Kirby Doesn't deserve a 3 seed, but should stay anyway. Part of the reason being that I'm running short of ideas of worthy new characters.

Ramza Beoulve Change with another T-RPG character. I hate T-RPGs so I wouldn't know who to choose here...

Gordon Freeman Keep. His game deserves someone.

Max Payne Kick. Too many FPS guys. Change with a PC game representative (Starcraft, Warcraft for exemple).

Raziel Stay. The only representative of a good series. Or change with Kain.

West Division

Raiden Change with another MGS character. Any suggestion ?

Knuckles the Echidna Keep. Sonic deserves some characters, and Knuckles is the fourth strongest.

Yuna Change with Frog. Another square character, that should do much better.

Ryu Keep.

Duke Nukem Keep. Unlike Gordon, his name is well-known.

Dante Keep. Only character from DMC.

Ryo Hazuki Kick. Change with Guybrush Threepwood.

Donkey Kong Keep. He's a legend.

Vyse Kick and put Ghaleon here.

Tommy Vercetti Keep, GTA deserves a character.

Kite Change with another recent RPG character. Any idea anybody ?

Lara Croft Keep, of course.

Zelda Keep. She did well enough to stay, and LoZ deserves at least 3 characters.

Mr. Resetti Change with random fodder.
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:40:28 AM | Message Detail
Kick : 21
Stay : 43
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:45:48 AM | Message Detail
Some corrections...

I put Guybrush at two different spots. Well, he's cool, but maybe not THAT cool. So put a Tentacle in one of these two spots instead. Or any other fodder.

And after some thought, I think I shouldn't get rid of Aeris; instead of replacing her with a fourth FF7 character, just add this new in one of the free spots left. Like in Kite's spot (so as not to increase the number of RPG characters).
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 6:49:43 AM | Message Detail
Hey, Sir Chris, thanks for the free ad for my tournament. :)
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:01:13 AM | Message Detail
Magus Staying.

Cloud Strife Staying. NNTD.

CATS : What's a contest without a mascot? CATS is the only exception to my rules. ^_^

Auron Although I'm no fan of Final Fantasy X, I think Auron's fanbase differs enough from Meg's. I say we keep him.

Tails And away you go. Replace with Robotnik/Eggman.

Bowser : Keeper. Second strongest character from the Mario series, which certainly deserves a second character.

Ness *kicks Ness out* Could be replaced with a character from a new game, such as KOTOR.

Conker Nice try, didn't get enough support. Replace with most popular Warcraft/Starcraft Char.

Yoshi Out with the true and tried, and in with Peach. ^_^ A little variety here and there.

Sora Toughy, here. His game certainly warrants an entry, but he didn't get a lot of support. I say we replace him with Riku. (Who will probably receive a little less, but the point is we try) Who knows, maybe some day we'll discover an elite somewhere....probably not. But here's to trying.

Aerith Out. Replace with Frog.

Master Chief I'll need input here. Either stays or is replaced with Cortana.

Felix Nope, not again. Replace with generic male or female from the Sims. (Just because some popular games don't have memorable character's, doesn't mean they shouldn't be tried out.)

Scorpion : Replace with Sub-Zero, by my gut-feeling the blue ninja is more popular then the yellow one.

Sonic Staying. NNTD.

Ken I say we replace Ken with Chun-Li.

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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:18:28 AM | Message Detail
Pimpdaddy Mario : Staying, if he shaves his moustache. It's hurting the girls.

Olimar Replace with Axl from Streets of Rage. Just replacing cannon-fodder with cannon-fodder. Let's see what Genesis-nostalgia can do.

Wario Out. Replace with Peach.

Shadow Staying.

Pac-Man : Dot-Muncher. I say we replace him with another icon, such as Mickey Mouse.

Before you all yell foul, Mickey has had his share of games. And I would never vote for him...<_<

Kefka : As much as it pains me....out. Replace with Locke, Terra, Mog...

Crono Staying. NNTD.

Tom Nook Can you say Right Pong Paddle?

Alucard Another toughy. I agree Castlevania needs to be represented, but I would be in favor of replacing him with his father OR a Belmont.

Bomberman Replace with LoLo. Tu-du-dududududu-TuDU-Tu-DUUU

Kirby Staying. Strong enough, and with a series and a fanbase.

Ramza Beoulve Replace with Delita.

Gordon Freeman Replace with the lead character of Goldeneye. Mister Bond, anyone?

Max Payne Replace with Guilty Gear character. (Dizzy, Johhny?)

Sephiroth Staying. NNTD.

Raziel Swap with Kain.

---
OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:19:02 AM | Message Detail
Some comments......

No single game, no matter how popular, deserves 4 exclusive characters in one contest. Or even what is effectively a two-game series, if you count KH. I reluctantly accept that the currently 4-member team Sonic should probably stay, but team Mario needs to be cut down from 6 characters to a more reasonable 4. DK, Wario, and Yoshi just aren't pulling their weight. Maybe kick all three and put in Peach.

I like the idea of Cid being in the contest, as THE mascot for FF. Just slide him into an empty spot.

I don't agree with Tails' removal. He's too much like Luigi. And Robotnik would SUCK. Wario proved that the fat greedy villains don't make it that far EVEN if they have their own game. He has none of Bowser's cool dino-lookingness, none of Sephiroth's aristocratic bishieness, and none of Ganon's "holy-crap-the-villain-is-the-most-likable -character-in-this-stupid-cel-shaded-game </biased>"-ness.

And speaking of Ness..... Geno would do worse, sorry to say. I might support an exchange, though..... as one piece of cannon-fodder for another.

Like it or not, Duke WILL be back next year, if the nominations are the same. His fanboys won't quit, even if he's destined to lose. That doesn't mean I have to like it. >_<

I also think it would be hilarious if two Kains and two Ryus entered the next contest. But that's just me. XD

And if Felix goes.... he is NOT going to be replaced by a generic. I know that was just an example, Shake, but it's one I'll fight tooth and nail. As perhaps the only person on this board who thinks GS doesn't get enough respect and Felix did pretty damn good against the X-box icon.

If Ramza goes, try replacing him with Andy, Eagle, or even Sturm from Advance Wars. Or even Marche from FFTA, although I found his character rather self-righteous and bland.

Master Chief NEEDS to stay if the X-box is to garner any respect in future contests. The more his name pops up, the better he'll do.

And one more thing to remember: For some, simply being IN the contest is an honor. SC is not just a popularity contest--it's a walking advertisement, for those who look closely. That's one reason I think single-series teams should be kept as small as possible. In-game rotation is fine (i.e. Ramza for Delita and Wario for Peach), but in-genre rotations are even better. Or even in-class rotations. (i.e. Cid for Ratchet, both have the technology thing going)
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Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
I had a [strong] grip on reality, but then the handle broke off. ~ Lollybomb
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:22:13 AM | Message Detail
And some things I forgot.

I support Mewtwo over Pikachu 100%.

One more suggestion. *readies flame shields*

How about entering a Yu-gi-oh character in the contest? Like Yugi, Kaiba, or the BEWD? I know it was a manga first, then an anime, then a card game, then FINALLY a video game, but the video game makes up a pretty good-sized chunk of the RPG population. The only problem would be all the haters..... perhaps even worse than the Pokemon ones, since the craze is still going on.
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Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
I had a [strong] grip on reality, but then the handle broke off. ~ Lollybomb
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:25:05 AM | Message Detail
characters that were in video games first may enter and I think Yu-Gi-Oh was a card and televison show first

and by the way pokemon was a game first
---
I'm a legend
Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:36:37 AM | Message Detail
Well tails, all I can say is I was agreeing with you till you iht Felix. His performance agaisnt MC shows pretty clearly that he deserves to stay. Nothing more than fodder, of course... but strong fodder. Yes, I want Ghaleon in there (though I'd rather see maybe Alex or Lucia) but Golden Sun still deserves its 1 first round exit character. Since you put guybrush in 2 places maybe put him in one of them... or since guybrush amounts to nothing more than fodder in this contest replace guybrush with Ghaleon.
---
The only thing I have left to fear is my own perfection - Vega
Go ahead MWIS, try to kill all my favorites, but I'm holding you to the not thinking part.
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:49:37 AM | Message Detail
Little biased there Shake? Aeris out for Frog? Sorry, but her performance more than proves her place in the contest. She may not be able to topple the likes of Sonic but sh'd take out 90% the non-elites with ease. So she probably couldnt take Magus, Zero or maybe Ganon... but everyone other than those three and out elite 9 are very likely to buckle under the pressure of facing Aeris.
---
The only thing I have left to fear is my own perfection - Vega
Go ahead MWIS, try to kill all my favorites, but I'm holding you to the not thinking part.
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:51:01 AM | Message Detail
Yes, I know that the video game wasn't the first for Yu-gi-oh. I believe I said that in my original post.
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
I had a [strong] grip on reality, but then the handle broke off. ~ Lollybomb
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:57:16 AM | Message Detail
Wario I put in Peach twice. Replace this guy with either Toad, or Serge from Chrono Cross.

Snake : Staying. NNTD

Raiden Replace with Big-Boss. ^_^ Trying to look into the future here...

Knuckles the Echidna Okay, the Sonic series deserves a third game. And Knuckles did beat Yuna handily. I can't see a good replacement for this guy, so he stays.

Yuna : Replace with a Soul Calibur character.(These are my options right now, there is a good chance in 7 months there will be more deserving character's.)

Ryu Staying.

Duke Nukem Doesn't get support like he should. Out you go. Replace with someone like Joanna Dark.

Dante Staying.

Ryo Hazuki Out. NOW. Replace with The Dwarf from Golden Axe. ( or someone better. I'm trying to put in a few older characters to go with the new blood.)

Donkey Kong Does he have the games? Yes. Does he go back a long time? Yes. Is he a character in hs own right? Thanks to RARE, partly.

Does he pull the votes? No.

Ape must go. Replace with...Tony Hawk. (I think Nintendo could be trimmed a little, and the TH series is popular in his own right.)

Vyse : Not enough votes. Diablo Character ?

Tommy Vercetti GTA needs a face. Either this guy or the main of GTA III.

Kite Nope. Replace with a new character, Ghaleon comes to mind, although I haven't played his game.

Lara Croft : I'm no fan of her, but I think Lara should stay. Tomb Raider was a great game and paved the way for a new genre.

Zelda Hard one. I say kick her on favor of another lead character.

Blue Bomber Staying. NNTD.

Mr Resetti Replace with Manny Calavera.

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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:07:41 AM | Message Detail
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:49:37 AM | Message Detail
Little biased there Shake? Aeris out for Frog? Sorry, but her performance more than proves her place in the contest. She may not be able to topple the likes of Sonic but sh'd take out 90% the non-elites with ease. So she probably couldnt take Magus, Zero or maybe Ganon... but everyone other than those three and out elite 9 are very likely to buckle under the pressure of facing Aeris.

Before using strong words like "biased" , you could have saved me the trouble of contradicting everything you say by reading my posts.

Not that their mandatory, but saying I'm biased because I replace Aerith with Frog just makes me laugh.

As a lot know, I'm a Square-head. I think Final Fantasy VII is one of the best games out there. But if we purely chose for voting strength (something I've obviously NOT been doing) then we could go ahead and put in Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, Jenova, Cait Sith....etc..etc.

3 Characters from a single game is too much. Some games aren't represented, and there is enough distance between Aerith and this years finalists for her to be cut.

I think Cid Highwind could do as well as Aerith, but the line has to be drawn at three.

I like the idea of Cid being in the contest, as THE mascot for FF. Just slide him into an empty spot

As for the mascot, I would rather be in favor of putting in the Chocobo, Bahamut or Mog. But its a bit of a cheap-way to concentrate the Square vote.

I'm a bit iffy on this...as a Square fan I naturally like and support 'em all. But I think we should be careful about adding symbols like these.

^_^

BTW, ALL of my replacements are debateable, I just wanted to show what I had in mind.

Everyone that's kicked this year, could come back next year in favor of a similar character who did not achive well enough.

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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:18:43 AM | Message Detail
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:03:52 PM | Message Detail

First of all, did you know being a Magus fan is the only thing keeping you from being made anatomically female? With a blunt butter knife? ^_^

That's almost an honor. I'll stand on the streetcorner beggin with a sign that says : My wang was amputated by Cromage.....will try and urinate for food. ^_~

^_^..I've always complimented you on your sharp logic. What's up with the blunt thang? ^_~

Last post for today, probably.

Bye guys.

---
OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:25:33 AM | Message Detail
Some comments...

First, I didn't really think of kicking Felix. I agree Golden Sun deserves a character, and Felix is probably the best to represent the game. That's why I in fact put Ghaleon somewhere else.

I don't see any problem in Cid taking another spot than Kefka's, but that will mean yet another FF character in the contest - that's why I think we should get rid of Kefka.

Tails should stay imo, but it couldn't hurt to kick him for one year and see if Robotnik could do any better - which he most probably won't.

Geno will probably do worse than Ness, but since Ness is already very weak - it won't change that much. He wouldn't be there to win anything anyway. An Advance Wars character would be a very good idea at this spot too.

As for Shake's suggestions :

You have too many PC games characters. Sorry to say, but these are not very popular around here, so there's no need to put many. Either a warcraft/starcraft character, or a sim generic, or a Diablo character, but not all of them.

Replacing Wario with Toad is ok, I think. Although Wario is a much more interesting character... Serge is a no-no. No more RPG characters, so you'll have to put him somewhere else.

If Kefka leaves, I don't think it would be a good idea to replace him with another FF6 character, since he's most likely the most popular from this game. Or maybe Mog, as another FF mascot (but not together with Cid obviously - we could also have a Chocobo enter...).

Right Pong Paddle... Sorry, no.

Dracula could indeed replace Alucard once, to see how better/worse he would do.

Bond cannot enter the contest. He's not a vg character. Same for Yu-Gi-Oh and Tony Hawk.

Donkey Kong must stay. Know your roots !

And Zelda and Aeris should stay, on their strength alone. They both pull a lot of votes.
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:28:07 AM | Message Detail
Mm.... I can't really agree with what you say about Chocobo or Bahamut being a better choice than Cid. They're not even real characters, for the most part. As for Mog.... I just don't see the consistancy. He never reaches the point of importance (and coolness) (s)he had as in FF6. Moogles themselves aren't even exclusive to the FF world. (although that might help)

All right, Cid may not be the official mascot, (and doesn't really have a consistant occupation) but he is more or less the official character. Even when he's just an NPC. Biggs and Wedge might count as well, but they're two characters instead of one.
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
I had a [strong] grip on reality, but then the handle broke off. ~ Lollybomb
From: Cromage | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:30:47 AM | Message Detail
Errr.... Dracula wasn't originally a video game character either.....
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
I had a [strong] grip on reality, but then the handle broke off. ~ Lollybomb
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:36:09 AM | Message Detail
Whoa... shake... did you just say you think Aeris should go because 3 representatives for a single game is too many? Is that your justification for taking out Aeris and replaicing her with frog... 3 is too many for FF7... so lets add frog to the caste of CT characters appearing... his good friends (enemies) Crono and Magus?

I'm confused here... are you saying 3 from one game is too many because you want fair representation or are you saying 3 is too many because the 3rd strongest from ff7 isnt the one you would chose to add? Obviously in your mind 2 shouldnt be the limit unless is suits your tastes.
---
The only thing I have left to fear is my own perfection - Vega
Go ahead MWIS, try to kill all my favorites, but I'm holding you to the not thinking part.
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:36:37 AM | Message Detail
Hum... yeah, good point... I kinda didn't think about that. :D
From: MyWorldIsSquare | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:38:36 AM | Message Detail

Wow, ChichiriMuyo totally PWNED that little debate.

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"I don't see how any girl could marry a guy on Columbus Day when his name is MyWorldIsSquare." ~ SSJ3 Popo
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:39:44 AM | Message Detail
I was talking to Cromage.
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:40:59 AM | Message Detail
I knew you would say that. *sigh*

From: Shake | Posted: 11/8/2003 11:14:00 AM | Message Detail
I think its time to re-state an opinion of mine.

I think Froq/Glenn should be in next year, but at the expense of a Square character. I think Yuna, Aeris (Sweet 16 material, but 3 chars from one game is 1 too many.

All of this will keep this contest dynamic. I'm a Magus fan, but if there was no other way for Frog to be included I would support the notion of exchanging them.

From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:36:09 AM | Message Detail
Whoa... shake... did you just say you think Aeris should go because 3 representatives for a single game is too many? Is that your justification for taking out Aeris and replaicing her with frog... 3 is too many for FF7... so lets add frog to the caste of CT characters appearing... his good friends (enemies) Crono and Magus?

I'm confused here... are you saying 3 from one game is too many because you want fair representation or are you saying 3 is too many because the 3rd strongest from ff7 isnt the one you would chose to add? Obviously in your mind 2 shouldnt be the limit unless is suits your tastes.

From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:07:41 AM | Message Detail
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 8:49:37 AM | Message Detail

Before using strong words like "biased" , you could have saved me the trouble of contradicting everything you say by reading my posts.



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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: Shake | Posted: 11/9/2003 9:46:01 AM | Message Detail
As I said before, the main issue for me here, is to look differently at re-inviting characters.

Magus goes as far as I'm concerned in favor of Frog, if that rule was accepted and enforced, which it won't be.

If Frog doesn't have the same drawing power as Magus, we could swap them again in 2K5. This will keep the contest from jading everybody (AKA the exact same chars in every year) and keeps the element of surprise in the Gamefaqs Character Battle.

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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up! Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/9/2003 12:48:12 PM | Message Detail
many people say that the 3 seed is a cursed seed well if you see 1 and 2 seeds are filled with 8 of the elite 9 and while the 3 seeds are characters that are regular popularity
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I'm a legend
Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=11001301
From: Yesmar | Posted: 11/9/2003 2:31:31 PM | Message Detail
Has anybody heard about that Mario & Luigi ROM leak?

I decided to head over to the board and ask about the game, mostly for my own discretion, but also to see if I could gauge Mario & Luigi's chances in the contest next year. From what I could tell from picking the topics with the least spoiler potential and a topic I made myself, the reaction is very positive and the game is quite funny.

This is possibly what Mario needs, not to get to the Elite 3, but to be able to stand alone against Megaman, Crono and Samus.

Also, even though I didn't go into topics with spoilers, I did happen to notice some topic titles in my vain quest of quick glances. I also noticed some other info which could impact the contest next year.

NOTE: WHAT COMES NEXT IS A *POSSIBLE* MAJOR SPOILER, MINOR SPOILER, OR JUST THE BIZARRE INTERPRETATION OF SOME IDIOT WITH BAD UNDERSTANDING AND/OR EYESIGHT:




















It appears as if a certain magical doll from a SNES RPG chances' of entering the contest just got a little better:) Now keep in mind, I didn't enter the topics with this character's name in them, for fear of major spoilers, and for all I know, somebody could have just mistaken another character for him.

If you wish to discuss this subject further, please mark SPOILERS, though.




















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Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf
Mad Caddies Team Member
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/9/2003 5:50:56 PM | Message Detail
Shake, you said nothign about exchanging Magus for frog on your analysis of the characters. You said to exchange aeris for frog. your justification was 3 characters from one game is too many. perhaps if you trully believed that you might say something about replacing aeris with say... Harle or Karsh or Serge or even Kid from Crono Cross... or maybe someone from the 20 or so other excellent RPGs from square (Vivi, god dammit) alone that deserve to have a character in the contest. You, sir, are indeed biased. I dare not imply that you HATE Aeris, but you are obviously not a fan of hers. Aeris should not go anywhere. She rightfully deserves that spot. She fights had and can topple characters that most people assume will whipe the floor with her. She's no elite, but shes far from a push over. The world would have to be turned on its ear for her to become weak enough to be considered mere fodder. And you know what (going off on a tangent), I think Geno should be in too. Don't underestimate him. Magus didn't make it into the first contest and obviously he didn't recieve huge amounts of nominations but once people saw him they realized "hell yeah, magus kicks ass" and performed way better than the nominations would have led anyone to believe. Geno could do the same... he has ties to Mario and he's an RPG character... If Felix could break 40 on MC Geno could beat MC. Its an almost undeniable fact that SMRPG is one of the most well known RPGs releaesed on the SNES. And even the weakest Mario character in the tournament isnt a complete pushover.
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The only thing I have left to fear is my own perfection - Vega
Go ahead MWIS, try to kill all my favorites, but I'm holding you to the not thinking part.
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/10/2003 8:27:50 AM | Message Detail
Something I just thought of.

Among those of you who picked Magus to face Link in round 3... would you have had him going much further than that had he been placed somewhere else on the bracket? I know I'd have had a Link/Magus final if he was in the South or West. Guess I bought the hype too much...
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Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system
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