| Summer Contest Discussion - Off-Season Topic |
| : | | | | | This Topic has been marked closed. No additional messages may be posted. | | | | Page 5 of 10 | | | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 12:22:17 PM | Message Detail |
***SONIC SPOILERS***
As
you might know, Shadow comes back in this game. Apparently Rouge finds
him in a capsule in one of Eggman's bases. However, HOW he survived
remains unknown. I'd bet that if Sonic Team (not Team Sonic, not the
same thing!) gives us some half-assed explanation, then he might go
down a little... same for Aeris in Advent Children. It's part of both
characters' myth.
I read somewhere that Shadow never really
lived aboard the ARK with Maria and Gerald, that it was someone else's
memory. That too remains unknown.
Looking at it from this angle,
SA2 and FF7 share a lot in common... and both have upcoming sequels
that could give answers that, no matter what they are, will not be
liked by the majority.
Good point, but no matter how
close Shadow's story is to FF7, there are still huge differences that
clearly works in his advantage. Sonic's story is weak overall. That may
very well mean that we will get no answer in Sonic Heroes.
Also
(but I only played Sonic Adventure 2 quite recently so there may be
something I missed), we basically learned nothing about him at the end
of the game. I still want to know who the hell he is (is it said
anywhere in the game ?). That's what makes him mysterious - but on the
other hand, it's difficult to guess what the real story is (if there is
one). So, whatever the answers are, people most likely won't be
disappointed by them, because his story is far from over. Just answer a
few things (not everything, or he won't be mysterious anymore !), and
people will be happy.
Finally, Advent Children comes 7 years
(not sure about this number...) after FF7; Sonic Adventure 2 is much
more recent. FF7's characters rose to legendary status - Shadow didn't,
so people are much less likely to feel their character have been wasted.
*** END SONIC SPOILERS ***
Well,
that's it, going back to the old statistics topic (already 3 hours into
it...). Funny to see again everybody so sure of Link winning it all
(well, I did pick him to win too). | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 12:34:30 PM | Message Detail |
Heroic
Tails - I guess what you say is true, but do you think Sonic's story
being weak overall ALREADY has an effect on the cast's strength in the
contest (or lack thereof)? What I meant was that Cloud and Sephiroth
are much more in danger of falling since they're already so high, but
Shadow too can fall in the eyes of Sonic fans (as far as I'm
concerned... nah, forget it).
And I went back to the old topics
too... Squall beating Luigi? Heh, never gonna happen. OMG Ganondorf is
gonna KILL Tidus! I predict 95 Snake, 5 Raiden. Bowser vs. Ness will be
close!
StopPokingMe - Don't know who CT characters' designs are by
*points to Goku*
The guy who created this guy. Isn't that, kinda... obvious?
I still think Shadow is all smoke and mirrors though. Let's see if he can grab 45% against Crono.
45%
would be for someone like Ganondorf. I see Shadow being around the
level of Bowser or Ryu to be honest... probably in the very high 30s
against Crono.
SSJ3 Popo - Good point.
"MAIN" MARIO GAMES
Super Mario Bros., 1985
Super Mario Bros. 2, 1987
Super Mario Bros. 3, 1987
Super Mario World, 1989
Super Mario 64, 1996
Super Mario Sunshine, 2002
See? There was a gigantic gap between SMW and SM64 as well. That means Mario had a total of TWO major games since 1990!
SMRPG
and Paper don't belong here, but they are not spin-offs either. SMW2
depends on your point of view, but I saw it more as a Yoshi game.
Meanwhile...
FINAL FANTASY (USA)
Final Fantasy 1, 1989
Final Fantasy 4, 1991
Final Fantasy 6, 1994
Final Fantasy 7, 1997
Final Fantasy 8, 1999
Final Fantasy 9, 2000
Final Fantasy 10, 2001
Final Fantasy 10-2, 2003
Final Fantasy 11, 2003
See? FF started pumping more games around the time of SM64's release, which gave its characters room to explode.
---
Magus to Ganondorf: N00B! YOUR MOM HOWLED LIKE A BLACK WIND LAST NIGHT! -BigCow | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 1:14:09 PM | Message Detail |
Heroic
Tails - I guess what you say is true, but do you think Sonic's story
being weak overall ALREADY has an effect on the cast's strength in the
contest (or lack thereof)? What I meant was that Cloud and Sephiroth
are much more in danger of falling since they're already so high, but
Shadow too can fall in the eyes of Sonic fans (as far as I'm
concerned... nah, forget it).
Very true.
As for the
byes system, I like it very much, and I have a little idea on how to
improve it imo, but it will take some time to explain and write it down. | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 2:22:22 PM | Message Detail |
So
the byes system has one main problem, apart from its relative
complexity : the seeding. But there is a very simple way to get rid of
this problem. Here's my proposal.
1 seeds will be the 4 strongest characters, according to the last contest; which means, the winner, finalist and semi-finalist.
2 seeds will be the division finalists.
So 1 and 2 seeds are the Elite 8.
3
and 4 seeds will be the division semifinalists (seed 3 if their
opponent won his following match, and seed 4 otherwise - or it could be
choosen randomly too). 3 and 4 seeds would be called Veterans (that's
useless, but it sounds cool).
Here are the Seeds 1 to 4 according to this system for both years :
Based on SC2K2 :
1 seeds :
Link
Mario
Crono
Sephiroth
2 seeds :
Cloud
Snake
Scorpion
Samus
3 seeds :
Donkey Kong
Lara Croft
Jill Valentine
Megaman
4 seeds :
Alucard
Aeris
Pac-Man
Sonic
A
few comments : only very strong characters are 1 and 2 seeds (except
for Scorpion, who did exceptionaly good last year). 3 and 4 seeds (but
especially 3) have some weak ones. But you'll see that being a 3 seed
doesn't help that much. Besides, you should get a reward for going far
in the contest, right ?
Based on SC2K3 :
1 seeds :
Cloud
Sephiroth
Link
Megaman
2 seeds :
Samus
Sonic
Mario
Snake
3 seeds :
Magus
Bowser
Alucard
Tommy Vercetti
4 seeds :
Squall
Aeris
Crono
Ryu
Here
we got almost all the top characters (except Crono, who got unlucky) in
the 1 and 2 seeds. Just as before, 3 and 4 seeds are not that accurate,
but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
5 and 6 seeds are
reserved to characters that did well enough (see below). All of the
other seeds may then be opened to nominations (from 7 to 16 then). For
the transition from bracket system, all of 5 of 16 seeds may be open to
nominations. | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 2:25:04 PM | Message Detail |
1 and 2 seeds gets 3
byes. Yes, 3. That's a lot, I know, but these 1 and 2 seeds are
supposed to be really strong anyway. They are the Elite, you know.
Anyway I didn't find a way to make it work with only 2 byes. And it has
its advantages too, like the fact that a sufficient and necessary
condition to become Elite is to beat one (and take his place).
3
and 4 seeds gets only one bye. So, you see, Lara Croft and Co wouldn't
have gotten that much of an advantage anyway, being that they would
have had a good chance of being eliminated in the first match they
actually fought.
Then it goes like this :
--------- Preliminary round ---------
1st round (24 matches) : 5/16, 6/15, 7/14, 8/13, 9/12, 10/11
--------- Qualification round : vets enter ---------
2nd round (16 matches): 3/(10 11), 4/(9 12), (5 16)/(8 13), (6 15)/(7 14)
You won two rounds (only one for vets), you get to play again and get a 5 or 6 seed next year !
--------- Veteran round ---------
3rd round (8 matches): (3 10 11)/(6 7 14 15), (4 9 12)/(5 8 13 16)
All
those who survived till now get a chance to enter the Elite by
defeating one of them. DOn't worry though, you are already a Veteran !
--------- Elite round ---------
4th round (8 matches): 1/(4 5 8 9 12 13 16), 2/(3 6 7 10 11 14 15)
From this point, you are Elite !
--------- Division finals ---------
5th round (4 matches): (1 4 5 8 9 12 13 16)/(2 3 6 7 10 11 14 15)
--------- Semifinals ---------
6th round (2 matches)
--------- Finals ---------
7th round (1 match)
So
3 and 4 seeds enter the tournament in the second round - we can still
have all the fun of close matches being weak or average characters in
the 1st round. And 3 and 4 seeds are not even guaranteed to be that
strong anyway.
Then, the strong ones (1 and 2 seeds) enters
only in the division semifinals, where they fight the ones who emerged
from preliminary rounds. Please note that, at this stage, a character
is guaranteed to get at least a 3 or 4 seeds the next year, and a bye
with it.
So, the reward for being in the Elite 8 is in fact 3
byes the next year, and 1 more bye the following year. That may be a
little too much (especially since somebody like Scorpion would still
have a bye next year because of that). However, this was because the
first contest was extremely unbalanced. The 1 and 2 seeds that come
from this year's contest are all pretty strong; and the one and only
condition to enter the Elite is to beat one of its members. So now that
these are actually really strong, it will be next to impossible for a
weak character to get that huge bonus.
Also, I feel it is very
unlikely that the popularity of a character drops from Elite to almost
nothing in only 2 years, so getting a good place in the contest 2 years
after being in the top isn't farfetched imo.
Of course, this is
all assuming there will be a contest every year - but even if it stops
after the next contest, it will still be way better than what we have
right now.
One big problem with this system is that we'll have
to wait a while before the Elite starts. But is it really better to
watch them crush much weaker opponents ? And during the wait, you'll be
sure to have more interesting matches than with the current bracket
system... And it only make sense to have the preliminaries before the
main contest.
So that's about it. Please tell me what you think about it. | | From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/6/2003 2:28:05 PM | Message Detail |
*raises eyebrow*
byes suck ass
---
"If at first you don't succeed, **** the world and smoke some weed ^_~" ~ AstralGirl | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 2:33:15 PM | Message Detail |
The
only way a bye system like this would work is if the bracket was set up
PERFECTLY the previous year. As you mentioned, Scorpion would have
gotten an unfair boost, ahead of Megaman and Sonic even. And I'm not
fine with Crono getting the shaft either.
Or you could just keep
the same system, but stay at the mercy of incredible misseeding. I
mean, I STILL don't know who the heck is Sam Fisher! And Aeris and
Magus are Sweet 16-level competitors... making them start before Gordon
Freaking Freeman... no.
Besides, I personally like to see Link,
Cloud, etc. squash the opposition in the opening rounds. Actually
useful for analysis purposes, unlike, say, Ryu vs. Olimar.
---
Magus to Ganondorf: N00B! YOUR MOM HOWLED LIKE A BLACK WIND LAST NIGHT! -BigCow | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:00:38 PM | Message Detail |
The
only way a bye system like this would work is if the bracket was set up
PERFECTLY the previous year. As you mentioned, Scorpion would have
gotten an unfair boost, ahead of Megaman and Sonic even. And I'm not
fine with Crono getting the shaft either.
Actually no. Like I said, to be in the Elite, you have to beat one of the Elite. So there is absolutely
no way a completely underserving character would get such an unfair
boost, since there is no discussion that this year's Elite are very
strong. Sure, it would still be a little unfair, but much less than
what you're making it to be (for example, Crono deserves to be up there
as well, but he's sure to be at least a Veteran whatever happens - so
it isn't too much screwed up). One of the consequence of this system is
that, even with a horribly made bracket, weak and middle characters
will be eliminated before the division finals. Scorpion would never
have the slightest chance to do as well in this bye system.
On the other hand, strong characters will at the very least end up being Veterans. All of this actually prevents the bracket from being too much unbalanced, and even corrects the problems lying in a imperfect bracket.
Or
you could just keep the same system, but stay at the mercy of
incredible misseeding. I mean, I STILL don't know who the heck is Sam
Fisher! And Aeris and Magus are Sweet 16-level competitors... making
them start before Gordon Freaking Freeman... no.
I don't
think you understood the system quite well.. Or maybe I don't get your
point here. The seeding is determined by the previous year's
performance ! So no way in hell are Sam Fisher or Gordon Freeman
getting a bye. On the other hand, thanks to their wins this year, Aeris
and Magus would both be Veterans next year and get one bye. | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:06:26 PM | Message Detail |
I
actually forgot to put in a few words. What I meant is, we keep the
same bye system, but the characters are seeded as usual, therefore
staying at the mercy of blatant misseeding. That's how I got Gordon
getting a bye, and Fisher two.
And on the Scorpion issue, you said...
the reward for being in the Elite 8 is in fact 3 byes the next year
I
meant if this solution was implemented this year, of course. That would
place Scorpion above Megaman and Sonic, who lost a round earlier.
---
Magus to Ganondorf: N00B! YOUR MOM HOWLED LIKE A BLACK WIND LAST NIGHT! -BigCow | | From: Shake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:10:32 PM | Message Detail |
The
point is, Tails, that this contest has had some incredibly inaccurate
seeding. And most of the errors were spotted before most even fought a
match.
I mean, come on, Fischer was never going to behave like a
true 3-seed. So if they adapt the bye bracket, and they use the same
system (system...yeah right) this would be the most horrible contest
ever.
It will probably end up giving Aiai three byes, and Crono
has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (second round) and
Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round).
So yes, ordinarily I would be in favor of a bye system. But in this contest? With this seeding?
Hell no.
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up!
Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:14:08 PM | Message Detail |
I
actually forgot to put in a few words. What I meant is, we keep the
same bye system, but the characters are seeded as usual, therefore
staying at the mercy of blatant misseeding. That's how I got Gordon
getting a bye, and Fisher two.
Well, of course, in this case it wouldn't work at all. But's not what I'm suggesting at all.
And on the Scorpion issue, you said...
the reward for being in the Elite 8 is in fact 3 byes the next year
I
meant if this solution was implemented this year, of course. That would
place Scorpion above Megaman and Sonic, who lost a round earlier.
That's
right. I must stress that this system only works if only the strongest
characters, or close to them (unlike Scorpion), are in the Elite.
Thanks to creativename's list, we know all of this year's Elite is very
strong. So it would work next year, and all the years after (because
the system is pretty conservative near the top - only characters
actually stronger than one of the Elite can become one). | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:15:23 PM | Message Detail |
| Shake,
that's exactly why I'm suggesting to make the seeding depend on the
number of wins in the previous contest. Basically, that's all I'm
saying. | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:17:47 PM | Message Detail |
SIGGED!
And I agree with Shake, too. Byes aren't going to be any good. No matter how you look at it.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:18:56 PM | Message Detail |
But
even then it will not be accurate. Max Payne somehow wins a match every
year, while Tails is left to rot. And I do think Tails would rip Max a
new one.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:23:21 PM | Message Detail |
Well,
if you take a closer look at my description, you'll see that you need 2
wins to get a bye. A very weak character cannot get two wins, no matter
what.
In this system, Tails would only compete in the first
round against lower seeds, making him much more likely to win a match.
He'll probably lose the second, and won't get a bye, but he doesn't
deserve it imo.
Of course, it doesn't get rid of all the
problems a horrible bracket creates. But most of these problems would
be much worse in a regular bracket. | | From: Shake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:28:15 PM | Message Detail |
TY, Slowflake. ^_^
*cuts another notch on his wooden cane*
7th time I've been sigged.
EL W00T0 !!!!
^_~
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up!
Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:30:24 PM | Message Detail |
Actually,
they would be amplified in your system. Overseeded characters could go
deep in the bracket, since the strong guys don't kick in until later.
Meanwhile, 2003's most overseeded character, Pac-Man, got stopped in
the first round, and even if he pulled through (didn't need much), he
would've been OBLITERATED against Crono. Just an example... do you want
to give Pac-Man a 5-seed and two easy, undeserved wins?
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Shake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:30:29 PM | Message Detail |
And Tails, I'm glad you're throwing in ideas. I'm just discussing, not bashing.
That's what this is for, after all.
^_~
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up!
Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:45:25 PM | Message Detail |
--------- Preliminary round ---------
1st round (24 matches) : 5/16, 6/15, 7/14, 8/13, 9/12, 10/11
--------- Qualification round : vets enter ---------
2nd round (16 matches): 3/(10 11), 4/(9 12), (5 16)/(8 13), (6 15)/(7 14)
You won two rounds (only one for vets), you get to play again and get a 5 or 6 seed next year !
--------- Veteran round ---------
3rd round (8 matches): (3 10 11)/(6 7 14 15), (4 9 12)/(5 8 13 16)
All
those who survived till now get a chance to enter the Elite by
defeating one of them. DOn't worry though, you are already a Veteran !
Let's take a look at this.
Actually, I was wrong. You need to win 3 matches to become Veteran and get a bye. This system was made so that byes are difficult to get.
In
the first match, you get to meet 5 and 6 seeds if you got a very low
seed - 5 and 6 seeds are people who won 2 matches the year before, not
to be messed with. Or you fight randomly seeded characters. Here you
can get lucky indeed.
In the second match, you get to fight a
3,4,5 or 6 seed. Those guys are supposed to be quite strong, because
they won 2 or 3 matches the year before. Much more difficult to get
lucky, but still possible, especially if the last contest had an
horrible bracket.
In the third match, you get to fight again 3
or 4 seeds, if everything goes according to the seeding. 3 or 4 seeds
are Vets, they won 3 matches the year before. That's a lot. And if you
fight somebody else, he's stronger than a Veteran. Is it really
possible to get lucky once again ? Reasonably not.
So the morals of this is that, to become Veteran, you have to be stronger than at least another Veteran, and take his place !
So
every year, apart from popularity shifts, the Veteran group will become
more and more representative of what it should be. Of course, the
stronger they are to begin with, the better. But that isn't even
necesseray in the long term. It will by itself evolve (and pretty
quickly, since you need extraordinary bracket luck to become Veteran if
you don't deserve to) until only those deserving characters are Vets.
Exactly the same can be said for the Elite.
| | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:49:50 PM | Message Detail |
No, you need to win two matches. Vets = Sweet 16, right?
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:50:27 PM | Message Detail |
And Tails, I'm glad you're throwing in ideas. I'm just discussing, not bashing.
That's what this is for, after all.
^_~
It's ok, I wouldn't have asked what you thought about it if I didn't want to discuss... :) | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:53:22 PM | Message Detail |
Well you need 2 matches in the current bracket system.
But starting from next year, and using this bye system, you'll need :
- 2 wins to comeback automatically the next year with a 5 or 6 seed. (I could put a name on this too...)
- 3 wins to be Vets (and get a 3 or 4 seed, along with a bye)
- 5 wins to be Elite (and get a 1 or 2 seed, along with 3 byes).
So I say 3 wins assuming this system is in place. | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 3:54:54 PM | Message Detail |
| Sorry, change it to 4 wins to be Elite. | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 4:04:29 PM | Message Detail |
From this angle, it's feasible, though it's still going to be hard to have a balanced bracket.
The problem with this is that the first year with this system would likely be garbage. Then it would get better as the years go.
But
personally, I still don't like the idea of byes, not necessarily for
anything on paper, but the principle itself. It's increasing/decreasing
the statistical chance for a given character to win the tournament.
Sure, Cloud already has a better chance than say, Tails, because of his
strength, but as far as the distance to run before the championship
goes, I don't like the idea of bringing Cloud closer just for the sake
of having 70-30 matches in the first round instead of 90-10, because
it's just as boring, and the close matches being, in theory, 10-11
instead of 8-9, account for a slight decrease in quality as well.
But
that's just my opinion, and since it's more of an ethical nature than
anything, then I can't force you to agree, nor do I want to.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/6/2003 4:17:03 PM | Message Detail |
Well
all the advantages/inconvenients of the bye system, apart from the
seeding problems, were already discussed in the other topic, so there
is really no reason to start this again, especially since I don't think
I've anything to add.
I personally really like this system, but
if it takes that much time to convince people it's feasible, I'm not
sure it is such a good idea after all... :) | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/6/2003 4:25:42 PM | Message Detail |
I think so. The good outweighs the bad, and visa versa.
I suppose we should just keep it at that...
...although mention of the NCAA in the contest page might mean it will always be a regular tournament no matter what.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Yesmar | Posted: 11/6/2003 4:48:32 PM | Message Detail |
I must be the only one who doesn't find non-close mathces boring.
But
anyway, I was thinking about who (in the Elite 9) has any games/media
coming out in the next year, and I figured out that everybody does
except for Crono and Samus.
I was gonna try to analyze each character's games, but then I realized that last year, no one would have given Kingdom Hearts much credit, so I have to include each game equally.
Cloud & Sephiroth:
Advent Children: The contest's ultimate wildcard. (PS2 or normal DVD????)
Link:
Tetra's Trackers (GCN)
Zelda Bonus Disk* (GCN)
Soul
Caliber II (GCN Version)- These things can take a little bit, plus
there's a chance of some non cel-shaded Link pics next year.
*Contains the NES and N64 Zeldas
Megaman
Megaman Anniversay Collection (GCN/PS2)
Megaman Battle Network 4 (GBA)- I searched on GameFAQS and it looks like this has only been confirmed in Japan. . .as of now.
Megaman X7 (PS2)- Already Released
Megaman X Command Mission (PS2)- when I tried to look at the Info page I got a 404 error
Mario:
Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 (GBA)
Mario & Luigi (GBA)
Mario Kart: Double Dash!! (GCN)
Mario Golf: Advance Tour (GBA)
Mario Tennis GCN- Not sure about date
Mario Party 5 (GCN)
Solid Snake
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (GCN)
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PS2)- Not sure about release date
Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic Heroes (all systems)
These are all the new games featuring the Elite 9 that come out between the two contests.
Question of the Day:
If Cloud does appear in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories (A Gameboy
Advance game) how much will this boost his popularity, if any?
Imagine, Cloud on a Nintendo system.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf
Mad Caddies Team Member | | From: Yesmar | Posted: 11/6/2003 4:51:02 PM | Message Detail |
Ugh.
*matches
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf
Mad Caddies Team Member | | From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/6/2003 6:21:16 PM | Message Detail |
Here's some important events that happened in the 2003 summer contest
Day
1: Link lays the smackdown on AiAi and shows that he's just as much of
a force to be reckoned with this year as last year, setting a record
90,000 votes, blowing away any Round 1 numbers last year.
Day 3:
Tidus losing at the first round by a very small margin and more people
saying that he’ll win and highest vote total for the first round
Day 4: Magus, a favorite to win it all on the boards, disappoints against Sam Fisher.
Day 5: The first real shocker match, Squall is the first to show the Kingdom Hearts factor in 2003.
Day 7: Less people said that KOS-MOS will win this match also.
Day
9: CATS leads for the first couple minutes, providing some real
embarassment for the future champ (which of course nobody expected at
the time)
Day 13: Aeris an 11th seed again wins here match against Sora from the popular game Kingdom Hearts
Day 14: Master Chief fails to impress, nearly losing to Felix, and automatically dumps 1,500 or so brackets in the toilet.
Day 15: Zero takes out Scorpion in Round 1, wrecking havoc on the boards and proving this MK ninja was a fluke in 2002.
Day 18: Shadow tears apart Wario, putting the board at awe, and interestingly enough, not much chaos.
Day
19: Angry message board users try and get CJayC to change that Amano
Kefka pic...but alas, Lettuce Kefka faced off Pac-Man, and squeaked the
victory.
Day 30: Kite takes a 35% chunk from Tommy Vercetti, the
hero, er, villain of GTA: VC, one slated to win it all by over 2,000
brackets.
Day 31: Zelda defeats Lara a former 1st seed with more than 60% of the votes
---
I'm a legend
Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=10949593 | | From: charmander6000 | Posted: 11/6/2003 6:21:53 PM | Message Detail |
Day 34: Magus barley beats Ganondorf and most people said that he’ll give a hard match with Link
Day
35: Aside from Link's being dethroend, the ultimate upset of the
contest occurs, with the ultimate underdog, Squall, winning yet another
match against Luigi; the first batch of account suicides start;
strangely enough, 38% of the brackets had him this far. So much for
being "professional".
Day 38: A close match of Yoshi and Bowser and Bowser winning by 56-44
Day 39: The sound of 1500 brackets gone when Aeris beats Master Cheif
Day 40: Sonic almost loses to some...side character, which gets people to believe he's doomed in R3.
Day 41: Mario underachieves against Shadow many Mario fans hoped that Kefka will give Crono a hard time
Day 42: Crono blows Kefka out of the water, increasing the belief that it's all over for Mario next time.
Day
47: Tommy Vercetti takes an early lead against DK, but the sweaty ape
eventually catches up and some lead exchanges happen at one point; this
makes the first truly nail-biting match.
Day 48: Zelda does almost 40% against Mega Man
Day 49: Magus fails to get anywhere near defeating Link, though Magus' last performance forewarned it.
Day 51: Cloud totally destroys Bowser looks like Nintendo might have some competition with Kingdom Hearts
Day
53: Crono leads against Mario throughout nearly the entire day...until
Mario's miraculous and suspicious comeback. The worst havoc on the
board. Ever. This also marks the second time Crono was leading just
minutes before the poll closed, only to have the lead stolen.
Day
56: Tommy Vercetti gets blasted to the next dimension by the blue
bomber, silencing the stubborn Vercetti fans and breaking over 2200
brackets. On another note, the only characters remaining at this point
are the 1 and 2 seeds.
Day 57: Samus, considered the "last chance" to defeat Link, fails to do her duty, making everybody shake their heads in despair.
Day 58: Cloud Strife blows Sonic out of the water, giving people hope again that Link could actually fall.
Day
59: The people who still doubted Link could fall were shown the power
of FFVII yet again, with Sephiroth getting nearly 62% against the
Nintendo legend.
Day 60: 14.53% of the brackets pick Mega Man to take the division, a record low for prediction percentage in Round 4
Day
61: Cloud Strife beats Link. Oh yes, and 13.37% of the brackets get
this match correct. This is also shattered the record for greatest
total votes, with over 147,000 of the them. Most of the bracket had
broke in this match over 17 000.
Day 62: Things are looking bleak
for Mega Man's rematch, and, as expected, Sephiroth ends up
exterminating him with amazing ease, unlike 2002.
Day 63: A Nintendo
fan's worst nightmare occurs: Cloud Strife vs. Sephiroth. Cloud wins
the championship, and 6.04% of the brackets have it correct, a new
record.-
---
I'm a legend
Vote in my tournament of stuff http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=10949593 | | From: Who Cares? | Posted: 11/6/2003 7:24:59 PM | Message Detail |
You
throw out some very interesting ideas Tails, but I just don't like the
fact that any character (Elite or otherwise) gets such a huge jump to
the championship round by getting a bye up until the Sweet 16. My
original conception of the bye system was to give some of the
characters that really have no chance of going deep at least one match
they could possibly win. I understand your thinking in having the lower
characters battle it out to get to the Sweet 16 & creating a little
more unpredictability in the brackets, but I'd still like seeing the
top characters in action by the second round, even if they are most
likely going to win that one.
Another system I'd like to see
would be double elimination, but there's no way in hell that would ever
be used. Afterall, time constraints and working out the bracket would
be too much of a pain, not to mention trying to run a prediction
bracket, but one can dream can't he! :P | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/7/2003 2:49:43 AM | Message Detail |
Basically, there are 3 setups already suggested for byes :
10 -> 5 + 3 -> 4 + 2 -> 3 + 1 -> 2 -> 1 (kawaiifan)
Here
'10' is the number of seeds entering in the first round, they are
reduced to '5' in the second and we add 3 more seeds (that have 1 bye)
to them, and so on... Seeds that get byes are in bold.
8 -> 4 + 4 -> 4 + 4 -> 4 -> 2 -> 1 (Who Care ?)
12 -> 6 + 2 -> 4 -> 2 + 2 -> 2 -> 1 (me)
Number of byes given :
kawaiifan : 3 + 2*2 + 1*3 = 10
Who Cares ? : 4 + 4*2 = 12
Me : 2 + 2*3 = 8
Hey, I'm actually the one giving the less byes. And they are harder to get. :)
I
fear that with your suggestion, Who Cares ?, too many character will
end up with a bye. 8 seeds ? That's half of the characters entering.
There is no way to get that many seedings very accurately the first
year. And accuracy is necessary with the bye system. But it is still
very reasonable.
Maybe, something can be worked out with kawaiifan initial setup.
Let's
write it again with the number of characters losing each round (I only
count the seeds, once again), so we see whether you can automatically
determine seeds in a way similar to what I described :
10 (5) -> 5 + 3 (4) -> 4 + 2 (3) -> 3 + 1 (2) -> 2 (1) -> 1 (1) (kawaiifan)
8 (4) -> 4 + 4 (4) -> 4 + 4 (4) -> 4 (2) -> 2 (1) -> 1 (1) (Who Care ?)
12 (6) -> 6 + 2 (4) -> 4 (2) -> 2 + 2 (2) -> 2 (1) -> 1 (1) (me)
16 (8) -> 8 (4) -> 4 (2) -> 2 (1) -> 1 (1) (Bracket system, no byes)
So
there is no way to automatically determine the seeds with kawaiifan's
solution. That's too bad, because I think it was probably the most
reasonable one.
Let's see if something else can be made...
14 (7) -> 7 + 1 (4) -> 4 (2) -> 2 (1) -> 1 + 1 (1) -> 1 (1)
Number of byes given : 1 + 1*4 = 5.
It
seems to be the only other solution. Basically 2 seeds get 1 bye, and 1
seeds are challenged at the very end of their division (and get 4
byes). That's feasible, but you give lots of byes to a single character.
I
think the solution I suggested is not so bad. Giving 3 byes to Elite
isn't such a huge jump, considering we are not even halfway to the
championship there. Actually, if we consider that the reasonable goal
of a nobody is to become Veteran (it takes 3 wins), that the reasonable
goal of a Veteran is to become Elite (it takes 3 wins too), and that
the reasonable goal of an Elite is to win the Contest (it takes 4 wins
here), we see that the Elites actually have the toughest job.
Also
remember that the 3 first rounds in the byes system correspond actually
to 2 rounds of the bracket system. Giving somebody 3 byes in the bye
system would be only equivalent to consider they would win their first
2 matches in the bracket system. Sure, some of the Elite had tough
second round fights this year (Mario, Sonic and Megaman), but that's
only because their opponents were horribly underseeded. Like I said
before, this new system also prevents in the long term this kind of
horrible over/underseeding. | | From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 11/7/2003 11:46:06 AM | Message Detail |
Next up: Discussion about possible new Final Fantasy characters.
There's potentially a lot of FF characters that would do well, but here are the ones with the best chance of making it, IMO:
FFIV - Cecil or Kain. Probably the least likely, but they do have many fans. They would perform decently, I believe.
FFVI
- Terra, Locke, or Celes. All three are immensely popular in their own
right, and with good pictures should be a bit stronger than Kefka in
the contests.
FFVIII - Laguna, or possibly Seifer. I can't
recall ever seeing someone who hates Laguna, because he's just that
cool, and Seifer would take a fair share of Squall's votes. Rinoa's
pretty much out of the question because tons of people hate her.
FFIX
- Vivi or Zidane. It seems as if the main FF characters always perform
the best, but I just can't imagine Zidane doing better than Vivi. The
black mage has tons of fans... and a few haters, too, for some reason.
FFX
- Rikku. She seems genuinely a lot more liked than either Tidus or Yuna
among FF fans. I'm not sure if she would do as well, however.
Feel free to comment and add your own. I know I'm probably forgetting some.
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 11:54:38 AM | Message Detail |
No more FF characters. Please. A few more Square guys (Frog, Aya) to make up for Nintendo's advantage there, OK, but not FF.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 11/7/2003 12:01:16 PM | Message Detail |
Well,
the only FF characters that seem to dominate are FFVII characters, and
I strongly oppose adding any more of them into the contests.
If anything, I'd replace Yuna with Rikku, Ramza with Vivi, and possibly replace Kefka as well.
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 12:11:38 PM | Message Detail |
You
know what's really sad? I don't think ANYONE from the old FFs could do
better than Kefka, since no one can agree on who the hero is in FF6,
and hero > villain > supporting cast, in most cases. And FF4...
we're moving way too much into the past for Kain, Cecil or anyone else
to have that kind of staying power. Though the older FFs need at least
one representative, and I don't think anyone could top Kefka.
Switching Yuna with Rikku? Same reason... Yuna will perform better. Final Fantasm 3-X anyone?
As
for replacing Ramza with Vivi... you just KNOW Ceej is never going to
put a supporting character without its lead... creating an increase no
matter what. Besides, Vivi was, in the common opinion, a gem in a turd.
Unlike FF8 and FF10, which have their fans, FF9 is almost universally
loathed. Not that it matters... Tidus is supposed to be, yet he's on
the verge of becoming an Elite, and Squall isn't too far behind. But
some people are going to vote for anything and everything FF7 and
beyond just because it's FF. I say keep the FF lineup as it is.
Besides, Ramza was actually fairly good... the expectations were just
too high, a bit like Magus.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: DaruniaTheKing | Posted: 11/7/2003 12:45:54 PM | Message Detail |
IMO, Cecil could probably do as well as Kefka, or more.
Remember,
both seem to be kinda unknown to the voters, so a Dark Knight would
probably get more votes than Lettuce Kefka (Because, when you don't
know both or are careless, you go for the one with the coolest picture)
And Dark Knight>Lettuce
Same can go for Kain.
But, assuming the voters know about both, Kefka would still act better.
And CRONO would crush both, either way.
Why, oh why the voters are so anti pre-3d FF?
I blame it on the typical "If it's on 2d, it sucks" casual gamer posture, but that's just me.
-------
And another thing I was thinking: Tidus. IMO, he should be in the "Looks promising, needs to be tested" section.
Remeber, his chain is all Nintendo/Square, and that is almost as good (Power-wise) as being in 2002 DK's chain.
I say to make him next year a 7 seed and have him go 2nd round against Snake or Megaman, and see how does he fare.
His 2002 match got a bit of its time removed, so it's no good for those purposes, again...
Altough
that might be just me and my "How does Tidus acts better than say,
Bowser or Squall???? It makes no sense" posture. Whatever.
I
still say that he needs to get tested next year, either way. If he acts
well and deserves his almost-elite spot, good for him. Same goes,
sort-of, for Ganondorf.
But, again, this is Gamefaqs... | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 1:35:49 PM | Message Detail |
Tidus,
if not screwed by other characters' underseeding (Ganondorf, Magus),
and is seeded decently himself, gets a free pass to the Sweet 16. I can
see him as a 4-seed and facing a 1-seed in the third round. That's what
I did in my pseudo-bracket... Ken's no problem, and he should be able
to edge out Squall in a semi-close match.
And I'll ask once
again, what's the big deal about Squall? Reminds me of Scorpion this
last year. Everyone thought he was so big and strong and powerful
because he beat Pac-Man, and Zero threw all his credibility out of the
window. Yet, when you look at it, Strider did better than Scorpion
against Link.
I expect the same thing to happen to Squall,
albeit to a much lesser extent. Yes, he beat Luigi. What gives? Luigi's
a rather weak opponent, you know. Unlike Scorpion, Squall deserves to
win one match, and make it close in the second round against a good
opponent. That's where Squall ranks in my books. Until he beats the
likes of Tidus or Ganondorf or Zero, I'll keep him there.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Yesmar | Posted: 11/7/2003 1:51:29 PM | Message Detail |
you just KNOW Ceej is never going to put a supporting character without its lead.
What about KOS-MOS?
And
to go to another topic, the new characters most people say will appear
next year are: Frog, Geno, and Viewtiful Joe, and a substantial amount
of hype for Vivi, but what about somebody from FFTA?
It's been
in the Top 10 FAQS for a while, longer than Viewtiful Joe at least. How
well do you think anyone would do? I haven't finished the game yet, but
as far as I can tell, Ritz would probably actually do better than
Marche maybe, though Marche is the most likely one to be included.
Mewt would do bad, not because he's a bad character, but he's either:
A) holding a teddy bear or B) *MINOR SPOILERS* dressed up in that ridiculously outlandish costume while he's Prince.
Not very photogenic.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf
Mad Caddies Team Member | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/7/2003 2:01:12 PM | Message Detail |
Squall
is, according to creativename's list, the 16th strongest character. So
he deserves to win his first 2 matches. But, as the weakest of the
Sweet 16, he probably have no chance at beating Ganondorf, Tidus or
Zero.
As for Tidus, if he is to be tested next year, then so are
Ganondorf and Magus, since all of these three are basically tied, and
at the door of the Elite.
All three are immensely popular in their own right, and with good pictures should be a bit stronger than Kefka in the contests.
"immensely popular" and "a bit stronger than Kefka"
are mutually exclusive. Kefka is a joke. If you really want a sort of
old-school character, Vivi would probably do much better, being a
representative of both FF's black mage and the much more recent FF9.
And I'd much rather see Frog there, instead of another FF character.
| | From: Garsha | Posted: 11/7/2003 2:15:06 PM | Message Detail |
Day
61: Cloud Strife beats Link. Oh yes, and 13.37% of the brackets get
this match correct. This is also shattered the record for greatest
total votes, with over 147,000 of the them. Most of the bracket had
broke in this match over 17 000.
Why don't we give this match a name? Let's call it "Link's 1337 curse".
---
I am a guy. | | From: Haste2 | Posted: 11/7/2003 3:43:42 PM | Message Detail |
Ugh,
charmander, why did you simply copy and paste that timeline I made? At
least say mention that it was made by me... Eep, and excuse me,
everyone, for any typos in it. =p
As for Cecil, he would crash
and burn in a Summer Contest. FFIV probaby gets literally 1/10th of the
hype the FFVI gets on the boards. I doubt the casual gamers are much
bigger with FFIV. However, I would love to see Cecil or Kain perform on
an RPG site (especially an old-school one), and watch them take
everybody out. I probably said this a while back, but Cecil was
actually vote as the best RPG Hero at RPGamer way back in 1998, barely
edging out Cloud. Oh, do I wish that would happen here. ;_;
Unfortunately, I think Cecil would do worse than Kefka, even with a
good pic. I mean, Cecil doesn't look all THAT appealing, even with an
FMV pic.
I still think pics are overrated, except when it
applies to very weak or unknown characters. Just look at Crono vs.
Mario in 2003. How could Crono do so much better than Kefka, then?
Yeah, it's been asked many times, I'm sure, but I believe it's because
some of the casual fans who've only seen a little bit of CT remember
Crono far better than other RPG characters because his red, spikey hair
and that he's always in your party.
Of course, what if Crono
WAS affected with his worse pic in Crono vs. Mario '03 and was actually
up at Cloud/Sephiroth's level? XD I mean, it's certainly POSSIBLE, as
Pac-Man got a value of 20% against Link in 2002, and Kefka, who barely
defeated Pac-Man, got 21% against Crono. =p Of course, there are
obviously other explanations of this, such as Pac-Man doing better than
he should've against Scorpion (some classic arcade site linked to
GameFAQs during that match), and Same Fanbase Factor.
As for
the "Scorpion" of 2003, Squall only fits as that because he surprised
people, heh. Tommy Vercetti and Bowser are still certainly weaker. In
fact, everybody else in the Elite 8 last year would've beaten Scorpion
at least 65/35.
Hey, I'm an Elite, finally...I finally feel like a board vet now...
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 4:33:13 PM | Message Detail |
Yes,
I was kinda basing myself on my bracket, but it's true, Squall indeed
oscillates between Sweet 16 and second round loser, depending on
bracket placement. At least he won't have to face anyone like Snake in
the first round anymore. But Tidus should be considered a Sweet 16
regular now. He just was unlucky enough to fall in the most powerful
4-pack EVAR... switch Ganondorf with Duke and Magus with Conker and
voilą, all three are in the Sweet 16.
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 4:35:17 PM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/7/2003 4:36:03 PM | Message Detail |
...what's that you say? KOS-MOS? Then is Xenosaga a game like FF6 on the lead character question, or is there a clear one?
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/8/2003 12:41:07 AM | Message Detail |
Ok,
now I feel kind of bad, I had my one line and you guys have all your
huge posts with your nice organized theories O_o. You guys are good,
lmao, eve if I think your theories suck, you put a lot of effortinto
your theories and discussion, commendable
---
"If at first you don't succeed, **** the world and smoke some weed ^_~" ~ AstralGirl | | From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/8/2003 3:35:40 AM | Message Detail |
oh, well, I feel a bye system is very flawed and is a horrible idea, whats your point?
From
the other topic (Buy-A-Vote). Not to bring your little argument with
kawaiifan here, but I'd just like to kno< why in your opinion the
bye system is so flawed. You don't have to make a huge answer, a few
words explaining your thoughts would be fine.
Slowfake here, who
doesn't like the idea at all, finally agreed thet a bye system was
feasible. Making it far from such a horrible idea I think.
Anyway,
I'm still working on it (just for fun). If anybody is interested,
here's how a bracket would look like in this system (with the same
seedings as the SC2K3, and supposing characters win according to
creativename's strength list) :
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/bracket3.htm
New Elite :
Link
Samus
Cloud
Sonic
Mario
Sephiroth
Snake
Megaman
Repartition according creativename's list, by blocks of 8 :
7/1/0
Veterans :
Magus
Squall
Bowser
Zero
Crono
Alucard
Ryu
Zelda
1/3/4/0
And
here is another possibility, where the seedings has been changed a
little so that the 1,2,3 and 4 seeds are the ones who did well in the
SC2K2 (like I explained above). This basically is a little worse than
the first, because of Scorpion's amazing luck last year.
http://membres.lycos.fr/shindohikaru/bracket4.htm
Elite :
Link
Samus
Cloud
Sonic
Mario
Crono
Sephiroth
Megaman
7/1/0
Veterans :
Magus
Tidus
Zero
Scorpion
Shadow
Kirby
Knuckles
Snake
1/4/1/2/0
Interesting
to note that in both cases, Elites are either real Elites or very
strong Veterans. So the 3 byes will be given to the strongest
characters, or characters just a little less strong, but lucky (like
Sonic). As for Veterans, they only get 1 bye anyway, but please note
there are all in the upper half of the 64. Which means they deserved to
win their first round anyway.
Oh, and if nobody is interested,
please tell me, and I'll stop posting all of these things. I plan to
look next at what happens in the worst-case and best-case seedings
scenarii (and maybe compare it with the usual bracket system - if this
one does as well, there is no need for byes).
| | From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 11/8/2003 9:40:01 AM | Message Detail |
Next up: Discussion about possible new Final Fantasy characters.
Assuming
next year's seeding is done by nomination again, we have to realize
that no character who existed this year but didn't get into SC2K3 can
hope for a very good seed. I'm thinking about 11-12 is the best seeding
such a character could hope for, meaning (apart from the lucky one that
gets Pac-Man) the absolute best first round opponent they could hope
for is an overseeded midcarder like Kirby, Dante, or Master Chief. So
who could hope to keep things interesting against that level of
opponent, or stronger?
FF 4-6: I just can't imagine
anyone from the old-school FF's doing NOTABLY better than Kefka.
Certainly not anyone from FF6. If anyone could, I guess it would be
Cecil, being the undisputable main character. Definitely not
"fan-favorites" like Rydia or Mog. These poor guys are just too old, or
lacking in dimensions, or something. They don't have what it takes.
FF 7:
The three we have were all boosted by KH as well. I don't think Yuffie
will make it, so that means any of the rest are weaker than Aeris 2K2.
With that in mind, I think the only character who could compete is
Tifa. My impression is that she is only slightly less
popular/memorable/whatever than Aeris, meaning she could put up a fight.
Number
5 from this game would seem to be Vincent, and I don't think he makes
the cut. So unimportant to the story that he's an optional character,
and (I'm being generous here) second-least useful of the whole lot in
combat. He's cool, but that's it. Give him a 1st-rounder against Yoshi,
and he'll still flop. None of the rest of the FF7 cast seems to have
the backing to get in, and I doubt they'd get anywhere anyway. They're
just not charismatic enough.
FF 8: If a second FF8
character gets in it would be Laguna, and if a third gets in it would
be a cold day in hell. Everyone seems to like Laguna. He might be
capable of Squall 2K2 numbers, or a little less... I'm not sure if that
justifies his inclusion. He gets my nomination, anyway. Seifer,
Quistis, and Selphie all probably share the number 3 spot, and none of
them could do squat against the likes of Luigi or Vercetti.
FF 9:
Vivi, as Enoch said. He's the deepest of the bunch by far, and for once
the fans are with him as well. Zidane is just sort of blah, and gets
that reaction everywhere I see his name mentioned. In contest terms,
though, I fear Vivi would crash and burn, simply because FF9 is somehow
obscure. And then there's his cuteness... I could see a Ramza-like
performance, but no more.
FF 10: Or more accurately, FF
X-2. The most important omission, Rikku, is going to appear in a new
game in between, in (presumably) a larger role. I'm pretty sure she'll
be in, and probably do about as well as Yuna did this year. Meaning not
a chance in the kind of 1st round match she is likely to get. The
problem is FFX-2 isn't going to sell to people who didn't play FFX, so
she'll be hard pressed to find new fans. She'll just be converting some
of the old.
In Summary
Add Tifa. Possibly add any of Laguna, Vivi, Cecil, Rikku, Vincent, but expect them all to lose in round 1.
Remove
Kefka and Ramza, if any. They will never win again. A lot of people
would add Yuna to this list, but she kept things interesting against
underseeded Knuckles, and now she gets a starring role of her own. Give
her an 8-seed opponent that deserves an 8-seed, and she will probably
win.
---
The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://members.aol.com/gcbfiles/ffproj.html | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/8/2003 9:52:53 AM | Message Detail |
Adding
Tifa and/or removing Kefka would just add a few gallons of oil on the
fire. You've already got three FF7 characters, adding a fourth one
would just be total nonsense. And like it or not, the SNES FFs need
representation. Remember 2002? The WAAAAAAAHmbulance made some big
mileage that year because Kefka wasn't in. He's one of these characters
that won't do well, but that you can't leave out either. Removing
Ramza? I guess it could be done, but he did quite well actually. Kirby
keeping it close against Alucard, the silent-yet-effective midcarder,
made him look quite good. I'm personally in favor of keeping the same
FF lineup, and if the Square forces need to be increased, then turning
to Frog and Aya might be the key.
Note that I don't exactly want
the top 64 characters on the bracket, but rather 64 very good
characters that will cover a bit of everything (basically my argument
for keeping Kefka in and Tifa out).
---
Crono has to battle against Mario (1st round) Super Mario (2nd round) and Starstruck invincible Mario (3rd round). -Shake on a SC bye system | | From: Shake | Posted: 11/8/2003 11:14:00 AM | Message Detail |
I think its time to re-state an opinion of mine.
I often agree with Slowflake, but I really hope next years bracket is not
the same as this year. My opinion is, if ANY secondary character has no
chance of making in to the Sweet 16, they should be substituted with a
similar character.
I think Froq/Glenn should be in next year,
but at the expense of a Square character. I think Yuna, Aeris (Sweet 16
material, but 3 chars from one game is 1 too many. Same goes for
Zelda.) Tails, Knuckles (yes, Knuckles. I like him, but he doesn't
perform well enough) and a bunch of others should be substituted for a
different representative.
I am all for the idea of replacing
Yuna with Vivi (Or Zidane), and replacing Ramza with Delita (Would
probably perform worse, but lets keep things unpredictable)
DK,
Yoshi,Waluigi and Wario all need to go. Replace them with other
Nintendites or leads of other popular games. (Warcraft/Starcraft
springs to mind)
Ken is out of here. Replace him with another fighter character, preferably one from a different series.
All
of this will keep this contest dynamic. I'm a Magus fan, but if there
was no other way for Frog to be included I would support the notion of
exchanging them. Because predicting and collecting stats is only fun as
long as we don't know exactly what will happen.
We need to keep
this unpredictable. Throw out Vercetti and put Luca Blight in. Discard
the Duke and bring in another Shooter lead.
I want changes, as many as possible. I'm a Square-head, but I don't want 20 FF guys in simply because they might win 2 rounds.
Side-kicks like Zero, Shadow, Magus and Ganondorf can stay, simply because they pull enough votes for a SECOND character.
I want representatives of every genre, and every deserving game should have a lead.
Really,
I think FF VII is a way better game then FF IX. But I still cannot
understand why one has 3 representatives and the other never had 1.
Keep it divers, unpredictable, dynamic and fun.
^_^
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS ESPN DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Popo's up!
Dammit,not like this! Popo pins Shake! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | Jump to Page: | | | | 5 | | | | | |
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