Summer 2003 Contest
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From: red sox 777 | Posted: 10/17/2003 12:54:12 PM | Message Detail
bump
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Red Sox Magic Number to enter the playoffs: 153
To Win ALDS: 156 To Win ALCS: 160 To Win World Series: 164
From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 10/18/2003 6:09:41 AM | Message Detail
BuMp
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Frantic, exhilarating, and addictive, Viewtiful Joe is a classic and everything a game should be. ~Gamepro
From: kawaiifan | Posted: 10/18/2003 7:29:14 AM | Message Detail
Thank you for the praise Haste2 and Who Cares ^.^
It's refreshing to read.

Enoch Camas wrote:

I didn't give any new character below a 7, because I believe they should prove themselves first.

I completely agree. ^.^

Who Cares wrote about the byes proposal:

IMO, the only real con to this system is that you have to wait a month before the 1-4 seeds finally get into action, while a successful lower seed may end up winning two matches before the top seeds get started.

True. However, the standard bracket also demonstrates this in places, albeit to a much lesser degree. How long did we have to wait to see Sephiroth, Solid Snake, and Mega Man win their first-round matches in 2003? Sephiroth's was the twenty-fourth match, Snake's was the twenty-fifth, and Mega Man's was the thirty-second. Out of the eight matches among the 7/8/9/10 seeds, six occurred before Sephiroth or Snake entered the action, and all eight before Mega Man did.

But really, I think this is the best way of restructing the contest without doing unnecessary unbalancing of the brackets.

Thank you ^.^

Just for kicks, I decided to make a master seeding list from the five brackets posted in this thread.

I could construct one as well, if you would like to see and perhaps include it.

From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 10/18/2003 6:38:18 PM | Message Detail
Bumpers!
---
"Do these huggies make my ass look big?" - Stewie Griffin
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/18/2003 10:50:20 PM | Message Detail
This topic can't die so I'll contribute something...um, for humor I guess.

Top. Ten. Biggest. Blowouts. Ever.

1: 6) Mega Man vs. 11) Ms. Pac-Man (2002)
Mega Man: 63,039 (92.3%)
Ms. Pac-Man: 5,257 (7.7%)
Vote margin: 57,782
% margin: 84.6%
predicted % of victor: Well, all I remember is that I was worried that Ms. Pac-Man might beat Mega Man. Yes, really pathetic.

2: 6) Mega Man vs. 3) Serious Sam (2002)
Mega Man: 60,914 (91.84%)
Serious Sam: 5414 (8.16%)
Vote margin: 55,500
% margin: 83.66%
predicted % of victor: Well, I knew Mega Man would make a work out of this guy after MM's first round performance, probably.

3: 1) Link vs. 16) AiAi (2003)
Link: 92,998 (91.35%)
AiAi: 8,802 (8.65%)
Vote margin: 84,196
% margin: 82.7%
predicted % of victor: Well, I thought Link vs. Little Mac showed that Link's limit basically occured at around 85%...boy, was I wrong.

4: 2) Mega Man vs. 15) Mr. Resetti (2003)
Mega Man: 91,905 (88.96%)
Mr. Resetti: 11,400 (11.04%)
Vote margin: 80,505
% margin: 77.92%
predicted % of victor: About what I expected.

5: 1) Mario vs. 16) Captain Olimar (2003)
Mario: 89,989 (88.42%)
Captain Olimar: 11,678 (11.58%)
Vote margin: 78,311
% margin: 76.84%
predicted % of victor: I thought the Mario anti-vote would prevent the plumber from a achieving a victory this large, more like 84-85%.

6: 7) Sephiroth vs. 10) Gabe Logan (2002)
Sephiroth: 61,367 (87.71%)
Gabe Logan: 8,602 (12.29%)
Vote margin: 52,765
% margin: 75.42%
predicted % of victor: Honestly, I was expecting 75% victory because Syphon Filter was a PSX GH; the result lead to me believing Sephiroth was THE character to win it all in 2002.

7: 1) Cloud Strife vs. 16) CATS (2003)
Cloud Strife: 94,086 (86.91%)
CATS: 14,168 (13.09%)
Vote margin: 79,918
% margin:73.82%
predicted % of victor: About what I expected, except maybe I was a little low.

8: 4) Crono vs. 13) Tom Nook (2003)
Crono: 88,469 (85.91%)
Tom Nook: 14,631 (14.09%)
Vote margin: 73,838
% margin: 71.82%
predicted % of victor: Well, I knew AC was popular, so it didn't surprise me that Tom Nook didn't perform like Ms. Pac-Man or AiAi.

9: 2) Link vs. 15) Little Mac (2002)
Link: 59,509 (84.31%)
Little Mac; 11,076 (15.69%)
Vote margin: 48,433
% margin: 68.62%
predicted % of victor: One of the long, forgotten blowouts...I wasn't terribly surprised on the 84%, but I probably would've expected more had there been a 90% victory beforehand.

10: 1) Solid Snake vs. 16) Raiden (2003)
Solid Snake: 84,638 (82.88%)
Raiden: 17,480 (17.12%)
Vote margin: 67, 158
% margin: 65.76%
predicted % of victor: I woulda guessed around 85/15...not that 95/5 victory so many thought; SFF can only take you so far.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/19/2003 5:34:01 AM | Message Detail
Okay, so I noticed something that went over our heads all this time.

We all know how Mario underperforms badly against non-Nintendo characters. We always put the blame on an army of haters, and I think it makes sense. But... why does he always do better against Nintendo characters than what he's supposed to do? I mean, DK only got half of the votes he would have got against Megaman! It can't be an overall hatred for Nintendo in general, because Link is capable of gigantic blowouts, and Samus would too if given the chance. So... where did the haters go against DK and Olimar, if they could have voted for them?

On another note, I thought of making a list of Nintendo vs. Square matches that each company won. Here it is:

2002

Cloud Strife def. Fox McCloud SQUARE
Donkey Kong def. Aya Brea NINTENDO
Cloud Strife def. Pikachu SQUARE
Mario Mario def. Cloud Strife NINTENDO
Sephiroth def. Samus Aran SQUARE
Mario Mario def. Crono NINTENDO
Link def. Sephiroth NINTENDO

Nintendo wins 4-3

2003

Ganondorf Dragmire def. Tidus NINTENDO
Crono def. Tom Nook SQUARE
Kirby def. Ramza Beoulve NINTENDO
Janus "Magus" Zeal def. Ganondorf Dragmire SQUARE
Squall Leonhart def. Luigi Mario SQUARE
Link def. Janus "Magus" Zeal NINTENDO
Samus Aran def. Squall Leonhart NINTENDO
Cloud Strife def. Bowser SQUARE
Mario Mario def. Crono NINTENDO
Sephiroth def. Mario Mario SQUARE
Cloud Strife def. Link SQUARE

Square wins 6-5

ALL-TIME RECORD: tied 9-9
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Sephiroth is feeling pretty after killing and then screwing Lance Bass. -SSJ3 Popo merging my sig and quote
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/19/2003 3:11:29 PM | Message Detail
I think Mario performs so well against other Nintendo characters because he's clearly "superior" to other characters that are also, for lack of a better word, kiddy, like he is. Anti-Nintendo fans wouldn't vote for Captain Olimar for that reason, unless they were they had that personality to the core.

I would be very interested to see Mario vs. Bowser or Mario vs. Luigi, though...with our knowledge alone, Mario would smash both them 75/25 or greater, but I'd wonder if the fact that they are rivalry matchups would totally change things...

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/19/2003 3:20:19 PM | Message Detail
But what about DK? Granted, Link and Samus are less "kiddy" than Mario, Olimar is even more, but DK? Both might be about equal in terms of "kiddiness", but since Mario is the embodiment of "kiddy", not DK, why didn't the haters who voted for Servbot and Morrigan vote DK too?
---
Sephiroth is feeling pretty after killing and then screwing Lance Bass. -SSJ3 Popo merging my sig and quote
From: MarioDiesLOL | Posted: 10/19/2003 3:21:46 PM | Message Detail
*This is Yesmar*


Just for interest's sake, I decided to do my own Semi-Random Seeding Method, and re-seed this year's bracket using the Table of Random Digits in the back of my Statistics book. I didn't completely reorganize all the matches; I just gave people new seeds. If anybody wants to match up seeds and do a new bracket, go right ahead. The results weren't exactly what I was hoping for though and some people (including both Sam Fisher and Magus) got the exact same seeds.

Mario and Link get automatic one seeds for being the two finalists last year:

1 Seeds
Mario
Link
Samus
Sonic

2 Seeds
Cloud
Crono
Samus
Megaman

3 Seeds
Yoshi
Sephiroth
Vercetti
Dante

4 Seeds
Luigi
Sam Fisher
Master Cheif
Kirby

5 Seeds
Pikachu
Sora
Zero
Alucard

6 Seeds
Wario
D.K.
Lara Croft
Knuckles

7 Seeds
Squall
Pac-Man
Gordon Freeman
Ryu

8 Seeds
Tidus
KOS-MOS
Bowser
Auron

9 Seeds
Fox
Zelda
Vyse
Duke Nukeum

10 Seeds
Jill
Tails
Ness
Max

11 Seeds
Crash
Ganondorf
Aeris
Yuna

12 Seeds
Scorpion
Shadow
Bomberman
Kefka

13 Seeds
Magus
AiAi
Conker
Mr. Resetti

14 Seeds
Isaac
Ken
CATS
Kite

15 Seeds
Ratchet
Ramza
Olimar
Raiden

16 Seeds
Felix
Tom Nook
Raziel
Ryo

Since, I haven't taken the time to do a bracket, I'm not sure how much spice this would add to the Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight, but assuming that everybody that made the Elite Eight this year made it with the bracket arranged around these new seedings, if you compare the two you get:

Normal Seeding Elite Eight Members (2003)
1 Seeds (4)
2 Seeds (4)

Semi-Random Seeding Method Elite Eight Members (My proposed 2004)
1 Seeds (4)
2 Seeds (3)
3 Seeds (1)

CJay's Seeding Elite Eight Members(2002)
1 Seeds (1)
2 Seeds (3)
5 Seeds (3)
7 Seeds (1)

I think we should let CJayC somehow seed them like he did in 2002, because that way we get more variety in the Elite Eight* (and probably in the Sweet Sixteen, although that has a lot of variety anyway), but to do that you'd have to purposely seed people much lower and their would be lots of complaining.

*Seeding Wise
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/20/2003 12:08:57 AM | Message Detail
Well, I looked back in the most recent stats topic before this one...(boy, there were a lot of things I read that I totally forgot about in just 2 pages), but one thing was reading creativename's rankings of the 2003 characters, and thought a lot of the characters seemed a bit unstable (don't mean to attack anybody), so I finally decided to actually post the rankings on how well they'd perform against Cloud using the percent method. (and absolutely no adjustments, heh) I'm not saying it's better or anything, mine has its share of problems, too. I'm just giving you all another way of looking at things...

Cloud Strife - 50%
Link - 48.39%
Sephiroth - 48.11%
Mega Man - 37.35%
Mario - 36.95%
Crono - 36.91%
Samus - 36.72%
Solid Snake - 34.74%

Magus - 33.80%
Sonic the Hedgehog - 33.79%
Ganondorf - 33.60%
Shadow the Hedgehog - 33.18%
Tidus - 33.14%
Zero - 32.21%
Aeris Gainsborough - 31.75%
Squall Leonhart - 30.70%

Bowser - 29.97%
Ryu - 29.69%
Zelda - 29.31%
Auron - 27.80%
Dante - 27.31%
Alucard - 26.67%
Yoshi - 26.17%
Knuckles the Echidna - 25.63%

Kirby - 25.49%
Master Chief - 25.31%
Tommy Vercetti - 24.76%
Jill Valentine - 24.56%
Donkey Kong - 24.52%
Luigi - 24.30%
Scorpion - 23.94%
Felix - 23.81%

Wario - 23.29%
Yuna - 22.89%
Sam Fisher - 22.81%
KOS-MOS - 22.22%
Lara Croft - 22.11%
Ramza Beoulve - 21.59%
Sora - 21.17%
Ken - 21.01%

Miles "Tails" Prower - 19.76%
Bomberman - 18.96%
Vyse - 18.43%
Isaac - 18.11%
Duke Nukem - 17.86%
Conker - 17.56%
Raziel - 17.32%
Kite - 17.21%

Fox McCloud - 16.97%
Crash Bandicoot - 16.89%
Max Payne - 16.68%
Kefka - 15.56%
Gordon Freeman - 15.35%
Pac-Man - 15.27%
Ness - 14.94%
CATS - 13.09%

Ratchet - 12.38%
Ryo Hazuki - 12.21%
Raiden - 11.89%
Pikachu - 10.64%
Tom Nook - 10.48%
Captain Olimar - 8.56%
AiAi - 8.37%
Mr. Resetti - 8.24%

The big difference between my and creative's formulas is that with the percent method, the more "indirectly" (i.e. Ratchet's much more indirect than Samus is) they lost to Cloud, the higher they are compared to the ratio method.

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/20/2003 12:20:54 AM | Message Detail
Slowflake: Well, I'd just guess that people just don't vote for DK because he's a sweaty ape. :P I do have personal friends who dislike Mario yet still think Mario > DK...

Yesmar: Yay, Luigi vs. Mario finally! And then a Mario vs. Cloud rematch! And that's just reading the 1 and 2 seeds...(sorry, too lazy to read long lists anymore) And interestingly enough, my Statistics class just recently skimmed over randomization, too...

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/20/2003 5:17:48 AM | Message Detail
Okay, make this Elite 10... Magus is ahead of Sonic.

Wow. I knew he was close, but THAT...?
---
Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: steve illumina | Posted: 10/20/2003 7:22:30 AM | Message Detail
In regards to rivalry matches...none I would rather see than Mario vs Sonic. I feel it would be close, too close, and would be a nice throwback battle to the 16 bit generation.

---
Pub Trivia X: Starts Soon Go Miami Dolphins!
N-Gage AKA N-Waste: Biggest flop since Virtual Boy...
From: Who Cares? | Posted: 10/20/2003 3:23:29 PM | Message Detail
Okay, make this Elite 10... Magus is ahead of Sonic.

I won't say that yet. In my view, he's got to beat one of the Elite 9ers before I can put him up in that class. He may be good enough to beat Sonic or Snake, but I wanna see it happen first. Til then, IMO he remains at the top of the very next tier.

Oh & if I ever find the time, I'll try to make brackets out of those two seeding lists real soon.
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/20/2003 4:46:10 PM | Message Detail
Actually, I doubt that Magus really could've defeated Sonic...this year, anyway. Sonic might continously drop as each contest comes along...and maybe even by next year we'll have to dump him out of the elite group.

Well, here's an All-Time Character Standings of the percent method in comparison to Cloud '03, and assuming Link '02 = Link '03, in the exact format creativename did. (and this has no adjustments, either)

1 || Cloud Strife '03 -- 50%
2 || Link '02 -- 48.39%
3 || Link '03 -- 48.39%
4 || Sephiroth '03 -- 48.11%
5 || Sephiroth '02 -- 41.95%
6 || Mega Man '02 -- 41.53%
7 || Samus Aran '02 -- 39.74%
8 || Sonic the Hedgehog '02 -- 39.72%
9 || Mega Man '03 -- 37.35%
10 || Mario '03 -- 36.95%
11 || Crono '03 -- 36.91%
12 || Samus Aran '03 -- 36.72%
13 || Mario '02 -- 36.26%
14 || Crono '02 -- 36.22%
15 || Cloud Strife '02 -- 36.18%
16 || Solid Snake '03 -- 34.74%

17 || Solid Snake '02 -- 43.09%
18 || Magus '03 -- 33.80%
19 || Sonic the Hedgehog '03 -- 33.79%
20 || Ganondorf '03 -- 33.60%
21 || Ryu '02 -- 33.50%
22 || Shadow the Hedgehog '03 -- 33.18%
23 || Tidus '03 -- 33.14%
24 || Tidus '02 -- 32.71%
25 || Zero '03 -- 32.21%
26 || Aeris Gainsborough '03 -- 31.75%
27 || Squall Leonhart '03 -- 30.70%
28 || Bowser '03 -- 29.97%
29 || Ryu '03 -- 29.69%
30 || Aeris Gainsborough '02 -- 29.63%
31 || Zelda '03 -- 29.31%
32 || Claire Redfield '02 -- 29.14%

33 || Auron '03 -- 27.80%
34 || Ken Masters '03 -- 27.57%
35 || Dante '03 -- 27.31%
36 || Knuckles the Echidna '02 -- 26.79%
37 || Alucard '03 -- 26.67%
38 || Jill Valentine '02 -- 26.49%
39 || Yoshi '03 -- 26.17%
40 || Knuckles the Echidna '03 -- 25.63%
41 || Kirby '03 -- 25.49%
42 || Master Chief '03 -- 25.31%
43 || Tommy Vercetti '03 -- 24.76%
44 || Kirby '02 -- 24.72%
45 || Jill Valentine '03 -- 24.56%
46 || Donkey Kong '03 -- 24.52%
47 || Luigi '03 -- 24.30%
48 || Dante '02 -- 24.21%

49 || Morrigan Aensland '02 -- 24.07%
50 || Scorpion '03 -- 23.94%
51 || Felix '03 -- 23.81%
52 || Squall Leonhart '02 -- 23.57%
53 || Strider Hiryu '02 -- 23.45%
54 || Wario '03 -- 23.29%
55 || Scorpion '02 -- 23.25%
56 || Yuna '03 -- 22.89%
57 || Sam Fisher '03 -- 22.81%
58 || Bomberman '02 -- 22.27%
59 || Raziel '02 -- 22.25%
60 || KOS-MOS '03 -- 22.22%
61 || Lara Croft '03 -- 22.11%
62 || Kasumi '02 -- 22.09%
63 || Alucard '02 -- 21.97%
64 || Ramza Beoulve '03 -- 21.59%


---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/20/2003 4:49:26 PM | Message Detail
Continued...

65 || Sora ‘03 -- 21.17%
66 || Lara Croft ‘02 -- 21.10%
67 || Ken Masters ‘03 -- 21.01%
68 || Miles “Tails” Prower ‘02 -- 20.07%
69 || Miles “Tails” Prower ‘03 -- 19.76%
70 || Pac-Man ‘02 -- 19.65%
71 || Bomberman ‘03 -- 18.96%
72 || Servbot ‘02 -- 18.77%
73 || Vyse ‘03 -- 18.43%
74 || Fox McCloud ‘02 -- 18.38%
75 || Isaac ‘03 -- 18.11%
76 || Duke Nukem ‘03 -- 17.86%
77 || Conker ‘03 -- 17.56%
78 || Raziel ‘03 -- 17.32%
79 || Kite ‘03 -- 17.21%
80 || Ryo Hazuki ‘02 -- 17.14%

81 || Fox McCloud ‘03 -- 16.97%
82 || Duke Nukem ‘02 -- 16.91%
83 || Crash Bandicoot ‘03 -- 16.89%
84 || Simon Belmont ‘02 -- 16.82%
85 || Max Payne ‘03 -- 16.68%
86 || Max Payne ‘02 -- 16.10%
87 || Kefka ‘03 -- 15.56%
88 || Crash Bandicoot ‘02 -- 15.51%
89 || Gordon Freeman ‘03 -- 15.35%
90 || Pac-Man ‘03 -- 15.27%
91 || Spyro the Dragon ‘02 -- 15.26%
92 || Little Mac ‘02 -- 15.19%
93 || Ness ‘03 -- 14.94%
94 || Pikachu ‘02 -- 14.83%
95 || Kyo Kusanagi ‘02 -- 14.60%
96 || Q*Bert ‘02 -- 41.52%

97 || Pitfall Harry ‘02 -- 13.95%
98 || PaRappa the Rapper ‘02 -- 13.52%
99 || Kazuya Mishimia ‘02 -- 13.48%
100 || Tina Armstrong ‘02 -- 13.48%
101 || CATS ‘03 -- 13.09%
102 || Donkey Kong ‘02 -- 13.07%
103 || CATS ‘02 -- 12.87%
104 || Chop Chop Master Onion ‘02 -- 12.81%
105 || Aya Brea ‘02 -- 12.79%
106 || Iori Yagami ‘02 -- 12.61%
107 || Ratchet ‘03 -- 12.38%
108 || Abe ‘02 -- 12.33%
109 || Ryo Hazuki ‘03 -- 12.21%
110 || Raiden ‘03 -- 11.41%
111 || Ulala ‘02 -- 11.41%
112 || Goemon ‘02 -- 10.92%

113 || Gordon Freeman ‘02 -- 10.79%
114 || Pikachu ‘03 -- 10.64%
115 || Tom Nook ‘03 -- 10.48%
116 || Akira Yuki ‘02 -- 10.42%
117 || Gabe Logan ‘02 -- 10.32%
118 || Bub ‘02 -- 9.94%
119 || Guybrush Threepwood ‘02 -- 9.79%
120 || Kane ‘02 -- 9.75%
121 || Terry Bogard ‘02 -- 9.01%
122 || Captain Olimar ‘03 -- 8.56%
123 || AiAi ‘03 -- 8.37%
124 || Mr. Resetti ‘03 -- 8.24%
125 || Dirk the Daring ‘02 -- 7.68%
126 || Serious Sam ‘02 -- 6.78%
127 || Ms. Pac-Man ‘02 -- 6.39%
128 || Mr. Driller ‘02 -- 5.60%

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Yesmar | Posted: 10/21/2003 2:53:20 PM | Message Detail
Actually, I doubt that Magus really could've defeated Sonic...this year, anyway. Sonic might continously drop as each contest comes along...and maybe even by next year we'll have to dump him out of the elite group.


However, although Sonic will drop, Magus will drop too, unless he is in a new game, and he (Magus) will most likely drop by more since Sonic is going to be in games for a while.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...
--Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/21/2003 6:06:30 PM | Message Detail
If your last game is 8 years old already, it's unlikely that you'll fall more. That makes Crono and Magus permanent players. And I even get the feeling Crono was a bit stronger than in 2002. And not just against Mario.
---
Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: GunMage | Posted: 10/22/2003 8:16:24 AM | Message Detail
Bumping this to safety...
---
Current occupations: fic author, contest updater, RPGer, money stealer...
(Vs. Mode: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=9727932)
From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 10/22/2003 8:26:10 AM | Message Detail
In my humble opinion, Crono did better this year because of last year's performance against Mario.

Whether his votes last year were legitimate Crono fan votes, or simply angry Cloud fan votes, the fact that he could stand up to Mario established him as someone to be reckoned with.

Question: Does anyone here think the SFF was present in the Cloud/Auron match?
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros
From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 10/22/2003 5:30:12 PM | Message Detail
Okay, make this Elite 10... Magus is ahead of Sonic.

Creativename's list had an identifiable Elite 12, Haste2's has either 11 or 13 depending on whether 0.5% is a big enough gap to call those above it elite. There are either 3 power players, 7, or more than 10.

Wow. I knew he was close, but THAT...?

What I can't figure out is why he's not as strong as Crono. I'm sure there are those who would vote Magus and not Crono, but who really votes Crono and not Magus? Did Magus have SFF hindering him against Link (why? how?)? I want to see those two against each other. Wait, make that Magus against Mario. Or how badly Crono gets mashed by Link.

Does anyone here think the SFF was present in the Cloud/Auron match?

Not very much. Sure, Auron has a few "fans" who only like him because he's the closest thing FFX has to Cloud, but neither is any sort of ripoff of the other. Maybe a couple of percentage points... I just can't see Auron blowing out Bowser or doing any better against Sonic than Aeris did.

Sonic might continously drop as each contest comes along

I doubt he will. If friggin' Devil May Cry 2 was a plus for Dante, how could Sonic's next game, multiconsole no less, hurt him?
---
The GameFAQs Summer Contest 2003 Fanfiction Project: http://members.aol.com/gcbfiles/ffproj.html
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/22/2003 5:40:14 PM | Message Detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/22/2003 7:54:26 PM | Message Detail
My $ 0.02..... (sorry if done before)

Teaming: Nintendo vs Square vs everyone else

So many game/series bandwagons this year..... FF VII, FF X, Mario, Sonic, Zelda.... And many duos..... Chrono Trigger, MegaMan, Golden Sun, Street Fighter, Metal Gear, Animal Crossing. (not counting KH)

But how does each member of the "team" pull their weight? Do the flagship characters do all the work? Are the main chars TRULY the most popular?

Note: In terms of popularity comparison, I'm basically rating each member in terms of performance (against others) and head-to-head. For "Performance," I'm making up SOME numbers but am largely using this year's stats.

Head-to-head rates how I think one character would do in a direct match against another. Naturally, these numbers are largely made up. They also have no influence outside of their teams. (the "flagship" character is based on performance)

FFVII: Strong. You can't have an one-game Final match without this kind of strength. Even Aeris, the weakest link in the whole bunch, managed to give MC a run for his money, and Sonic a close fight. Unfortunately, both characters were wild cards, so it would impossible to gauge Aeris's popularity without matching her against a more standard opponent.

Head to Head: Cloud > Sephiroth > Aeris
Performance: Cloud = Sephiroth > Aeris

FFX Again, strong team unity. (read: They all lose together) Surprisingly, the one who came out of this whole thing looking the best (and the only one to win a match) was NOT the main character. Personally, I think we should scrap Tidus and keep Auron. But can that happen?

Head to Head: Auron > Tidus >> Yuna
Performance: Auron > Tidus >> Yuna

Interesting Fact: In SC2k3, KOS-MOS was the only PC to enter without her main character. CATS, Tom Nook, and Resetti were the only NPCs to enter the contest without their corresponding PCs. In other words...... not likely. I'd have to say the same about Vivi entering without Zidane. =P

Mario: Ugh. Personally, I think this is the one that needs to be trimmed a bit. Mario, Bowser, Luigi, Yoshi, Wario AND DK? Not to mention that only Mario and Bowser made it out of the second round--and Bowser only squeaked through by beating fellow-Mario character Yoshi. Chuck Wario and DK. Wario has all the fat-plumber stigma, none of Mario's popularity, and none of Mario's history. Someone said it before: DK's an ape. Perhaps more popular than Wario, (he did keep it reasonable against the wildcard Vercetti)but an ape nonetheless. Remember AiAi, people? Maybe even chuck Yoshi.... aww... but I can't say no to that kawaii likkle dino..... ^_^

One thing I wouldn't mind: Bowser vs Mario. This would be more interesting because Bowser > Mario in terms of coolness. It could even be closer than Cloud vs Sephiroth. Who knows. I'd like to see SOMETHING break the hero > villain stigma.

However.... when the going gets tough, Bowser gets going. I think in a head-to-head, he'd do better against Mario than simply comparing performances. Hell, same may go for Luigi. But it's a hypothetical thing.

Head to Head: Luigi = Mario > Bowser > Yoshi > DK > Wario
Performance: Mario >> Bowser > Yoshi > DK >= Luigi > Wario

Sonic: Ah, yes.... the Team Sonic. Stronger as a whole than FFX (Knuckles vs Yuna proved this pretty well) but you can't say more than that. (I believe Auron, again, was the "star" of FFX, explaining his victory over the slightly more childish Tails) Shadow was the new addition to the familiar crew of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles.

Shadow, more than anything, proves the close-knit quality of the Sonic team. Mario would probably beat Sonic, (sadly, Sonic HAS shrunk in popularity as a symbol for a company no longer making consoles) but Shadow trounced Wario. Tails seems more like the weak link this year, the only member of Team Sonic knocked out first round...... but if the positions were reversed, would they do much different?

Head to Head: Sonic > Knuckles > Tails > Shadow
Performance: Sonic > Shadow > Knuckles > Tails
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/22/2003 7:54:43 PM | Message Detail
Zelda: Plagued by amusing underseedings (and a rather unfortunate match versus a blue-haired warlock), this team's record looks worse than it really is. Ganondorf managed to add a FF skull to the hem of his black robe, and Zelda took down a former 1-seed. They both promptly lost in the 2nd round to strong competitors, while Link practically got a by to the 3rd round. To her credit, though, Zelda DID do better against Mega than wild card Vercetti. Maybe being a title-yet-not-main character DOES have its perks. Be a doll and invite Lunar/Lufia over to prove this, will you?

Chrono Trigger Ech. Magus faced too many unknowns and uncalcuables. For a 13-seed, he did positively extrordinarily, but as a Magus fangirl..... I am left with many "if-onlys." If only he were seeded higher, if only he had been facing a weaker 1-seed (ie Snake)...... but the fact of the matter is, he couldn't perform as well as Crono.

Admittedly, Crono has not only the main-character bonus, but the title-character bonus. (much like his red-clothed rival) And until quite late in the game, Magus has the eternal villain stigma. Crono also has the idiot's vote. You know, the ones that killed Magus. >=P I'm not saying that everyone who says Crono > Magus is an idiot, but the more casual gamers were the ones more likely to kill him off.

Next year, things might be different. Defeating Ganondorf definately will add to Magus's popularity, and perhaps things might get better. Or they could get worse. >_<

Head-to-head: Magus > Crono (and I'm going to stick by it, dammit)

Performance: Crono > Magus

Megaman An interesting duo here. Regular Megaman and futuristic Zero. Call me crazy, but I actually think the NAME has something to do with the popularity gap. I mean, Megaman's futuristic name is Megaman X, while Zero's "old" name is Protoman. (correct me if I'm wrong) For the most part, if you've played all the Megaman games, Zero = Protoman in terms of popularity. But what of the casual gamers sans PS2? Megaman Zero is helping a bit..... but there's a long way to go.

Head-to-head: Megaman > Zero (sorry, but unless CjayC puts "(Protoman)" after Zero's name, (which I wouldn't want anyway)he's gonna be missing the crucial votes)
Performance: Megaman > Zero

Golden Sun: One word: OUCH. These co-stars had their work cut out for them. The first went against a seasoned veteran, the only female to EVER make it to the Elite 8.... and she did it twice. Needless to say, he got crushed. The second did more respectedly against the X-box icon. I just wish I knew how much of that were anti-votes. I wouldn't mind Felix returning, but I don't think we can justify poor Isaac.

Head-to-head: Felix > Isaac (better personality in games they did NOT star in, not to mention the fact that GS2 had more cool moves.....)
Performance: Felix > Isaac

Street Fighter Half-word: Owie? Ken gets creamed, Ryu's in the sweet 16. Of course, Ryu got seeded as a 5, crushing the aging Duke Nukem and the plummeting-popularity Dante, while Ken got the shaft facing Sonic. (hell, he would have gotten the shaft facing ANY 2-seed, but that's not the point)

Head-to-head: Ryu > Ken? (to be honest, I'm clueless here)
Performance: Ryu > Ken

Metal Gear Yeeeeeeaaaaah....... you can't really call this a "team," as one character killed off the other right off the bat. Too bad.... Raiden is now the hardest to predict. Bah.

Head-to-head: Snake > Raiden
Performance: Snake > Raiden (EASIEST. ANALYSIS. EVAR.)

Animal Crossing: This team was truly the weakest link among teams. Period. Neither one managed 15% of the vote total against their competitors. I WOULD find it incredibly amusing to pit them against each other..... it would probably have fewer voters than Max vs Gordon.

Head-to-head: Nook > Resetti?
Performance: Nook > Resetti

Any comments? Are you asleep? Are you about to kill me for stating the obvious?
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
Give blood. Play Rugby.
From: torey luvullo | Posted: 10/23/2003 6:22:55 AM | Message Detail
i liked the analysis. i would not chuck dk, however. ape or not, any character who is a favorite against many to make the second round, and who still inspires passion among his followers [unlike, say, luigi] deserves another shot, imo.
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/23/2003 6:37:29 AM | Message Detail
Auron > Tidus? Excuuuuuuse me, but Auron got 28% against Cloud, and Tidus would likely get 34% against Link. It would take some major SFF in Auron/Cloud for Auron to top Tidus, and in light of the match against Tails and Cloud's improvement, it's not the case.

Conclusion: Tidus > Auron.
---
Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: DaruniaTheKing | Posted: 10/23/2003 6:44:31 AM | Message Detail
Zero and Protoman are two different robots.

Dr. Light and Dr. Wily created Protoman together, then they created Rock (Megaman), Roll, and the 6 original Robot Masters.

Muuuch later on, Wily, alone, created Zero. Someone else fill this part, but in short form, they're not the same.
From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 10/23/2003 11:47:05 AM | Message Detail
Babump
Yes, very nice work. I feel you are correct in your analysis.
---
Frantic, exhilarating, and addictive, Viewtiful Joe is a classic and everything a game should be. ~Gamepro
From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | Posted: 10/23/2003 12:45:59 PM | Message Detail
*cracks knuckles* What to say about Zero... (SPOILERS)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Well, he's not Protoman for one. The only way I can even begin to think you came to such a conclusion is because they both have a more or less Red/White color scheme, and Protoman has a yellow scarf, while Zero has incredibly long blonde hair.

Zero was created by Doctor Wily roughly the same time X was created by Doctor Light. Light wanted to make a robot with human-like emotions and thoughts, while Wily wanted to create a machine with free will (so it would be free to kill, unbound by the restraints that kept the current robots from bringing any real harm to humans). However, X was placed into stasis, while what happened with Zero... is a bit unclear. Most people theorize that once Zero was activated, he went Maverick right away (whether or not Wily intended this to happen) and he killed pretty much everyone in the Mega Man universe. That's right, most people believe Zero took down Wily, Bass, Mega Man, Protoman, Roll, Light, Duo, and everybody else you may be familiar with.

Flash forward a couple of decades (a century?), and Zero is a top priority for the Maverick Hunters (a group of Maverick-hunting reploids created based upon X's technology). Sigma, the then leader and most powerful of the Maverick Hunters goes to fight Zero alone.

Zero PWNS him. Badly. Sigma with a Beam Sabre has one of his arms cut of by Zero who was wielding nothing more than a pipe. Just as Zero is about to finish Sigma off, a strange "W" symbol appears on the blue crystal in his forehead and causes him great pain. While he's distracted y the pain, Sigma lands a blow to the blue crystal, deactivating Zero. Zero is apparently later reactivated by Dr. Cain (without his Maverick tendencies), and later becomes the new leader of the Maverick Hunters to take on Sigma. Zero then helps X through the first three MMX games (including sacrificing himself once), but the story of the MMX games is a lot more about Zero as of MMX4.

Zero has flashbacks to an old scientist who claims to have made Zero (the scientist, by the way, is Wily). He falls in love, is forced into a fight to the death with his love's brother, is forced to fight his love, and has a part of his mysterious past revealed.

In MMX5, it is discovered that there is a virus that can make reploids go Maverick. How odd it is that exposure to the virus in small amounts hurts X but only makes Zero stronger... Oh, and Zero dies. Again.

In MMX6, Zero comes back from the dead. Again. It is also discovered that Zero's DNA contains something that is very similar to the virus that causes reploids to go Maverick. There are also more allusions to Zero being the "strongest" or "greatest" of someone's work. There is also the "ending" that ties in the MMX series to the Mega Man Zero series, where Zero seals himself in a capsule as a procedure to remove the Maverick Virus from his body.

In MMX7... I haven't played it very much yet, but at the very least Snipe Anteater mentions something about hidden data in Zero's DNA, and something about blue being the color of lies and red being the color of those who were sealed away forever. I have no idea what this means just yet.

Whew. Yeah, that's a decent enough summary. As for the MMZ series... you'll have to wait until either I play the games, or pika wanders into this topic.
---
"America's belief in angels will be rewarded when thousands are discovered in a secluded valley. They will taste like veal." - Conan O'Brien
From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 10/23/2003 1:13:59 PM | Message Detail
*cracks knuckles*
Ow that hurt.
---
Frantic, exhilarating, and addictive, Viewtiful Joe is a classic and everything a game should be. ~Gamepro
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/23/2003 4:13:43 PM | Message Detail
I stand corrected. I thought I remember reading somewhere that Zero was the upgraded form of Protoman. Dammit. >_<
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
Give blood. Play Rugby.
From: Yesmar | Posted: 10/23/2003 5:04:17 PM | Message Detail
Well, I think that since Chrono Trigger was rereleased on Playstation around '99 there's still a chance for him (Crono) to drop a bit further.

Plus, if Crono and Magus went up against each other, Crono would win, and it wouldn't even be close.

Don't ask me why. It just would. SFF combined with this site's apparent more love for Crono than Magus, would give Crono and easy, although puzzling win.

Also, assuming that Magus drops a little in popularity for the next two or three years before leveling out and Ganondorf increases in popularity after WW's one-year anniversary and subsequent appearences (presumably with the same personality), is there any chance of a role reversal for any subsequent repeats of Ganondorf Vs. Magus (if any)

Will Ganondorf tackle the scythe wielding wizard by:

2004
2005

I really think Ganondorf will be able to beat Magus by 2005, and this is one repeat I'm really looking forward too, mostly because Ganondorf Vs. Magus was my favorite match this year.

It was the only time in the contest I had given up all hope on the outcome before the match had even started and I learned never to do it again.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...
--Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
From: DomaDragoon | Posted: 10/23/2003 5:12:14 PM | Message Detail
Well, I think that since Chrono Trigger was rereleased on Playstation around '99 there's still a chance for him (Crono) to drop a bit further.

There's still the possibility of Chrono Break, or (even less likely) a Square RPG battler to help restore Crono's popularity. Besides, he's got the casual picture love.

Plus, if Crono and Magus went up against each other, Crono would win, and it wouldn't even be close.

Don't ask me why. It just would. SFF combined with this site's apparent more love for Crono than Magus, would give Crono and easy, although puzzling win.

Crono has a more pronounced Toriyama effect, and Magus is essentially an optional character with minor appearances throughout the first 2/3 of CT. As well, Crono appeared in CC, putting him one game up on the Reaper.

Also, assuming that Magus drops a little in popularity for the next two or three years before leveling out and Ganondorf increases in popularity after WW's one-year anniversary and subsequent appearences (presumably with the same personality), is there any chance of a role reversal for any subsequent repeats of Ganondorf Vs. Magus (if any)

That's debatable. Remember, Ganondorf has been in the Zelda series since the beginning, and yet you probably wouldn't have seen much of his popularity begin until OoT (and to a lesser extent, LttP). Ganon will probably always be rated on his most recent appearance, and it just happened that WW's Ganondorf was very good.
---
RPGP Contributor "DragoonJay"; Smart Ask! National Champion (2003) Drunk Armadillos Team Member
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/23/2003 5:26:20 PM | Message Detail
Except that his look was absolutely pathetic.

As for the CT re-release, I never thought of that. But how big of an impact can it make?
---
Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/23/2003 7:26:06 PM | Message Detail
Comments on Magus, Ganon, and Geno.

Does anyone know when the next Zelda game's coming out? I don't follow release dates too well....

In WW.... Ganondorf was the best sounding and the worst looking. (God, and I didn't think that nose could get any bigger.....) Perhaps the source of ALL decent quotes in that game.... My blood has cooled since his match against Magus--he's not-so-bad again. ^_^

But honestly, I that unless a new release is pending, he's as high up as he could be for next year. I also notice that many of his hard-core gamer fans only like him in SSBM--that's not a good way to build a fanbase, IMO. But if Marth is in next year, mayhap they'll prove me wrong.

I also think the WW hype will die down. (someday) It really was not revolutionary in any way, and a game you couldn't even really take seriously. Because WW's graphics and easier gameplay appealed more to the younger class of gamers, Ganon might not pull a whole hell of a lot of support from THAT corner either. (younger gamers tend to hate the villain, hero-worship the nice guy)

Magus and Crono.... true to the fact that it rode on the PSX release more than anything else (despite the rumors of Magus being the poor man's Sephiroth) I seem to recall the game selling quite poorly when it first came out on SNES. (again, I could be wrong.....) Now, of course, it's one of the top 2 games in SNES.... but that may or may not be saying much.

FF SNES/PSX is a strange category. It could be that they have the strength of both. The support of the older gamers and the new. But we can't tell for certain yet.... the only other character in that "category" was Kefka.... and fan-base split killed him with a dirty stick. Crono has only been defeated by one opponent. Magus did well considering Link's previous record, but considerably poorer when you look at the later matches.

And as to Magus vs Crono..... I will be the first one to admit I liked the DBZ-izing of Crono more than that of Magus. (I'm referring to the hand-drawn scenes) (I'd call it Toriyama-izing, but then I'd merely be WRONG) Crono fits the bill--spiky hair, sword, he's the embodiment of the anime hero. Especially with his Goku-like sacrifice. Magus has a bit of Vegeta's personality but none of the appearance. His official DBZish stuff looks nice, but it's not MAGUS. Not the Magus I am a rabid fangirl of, anyway. I fell in love with his SNES character portrait, (which was probably the least DBZish of them all, save maybe Frog) shadow magic, and kick-ass hand-gestures.

And, oh yes, Geno...... am I the only one who'd think he'd tank and shouldn't be in the contest? If Crono and Magus required a re-release in order to be popular, he's essentially screwed, Ramza-style.

Hmm.... these views are a bit more contraversial. Better get the flame shield up just in case....

And for your viewing pleasure..... what the characters would say about this contest if they actually existed

Sam Fisher: **** it. I could have faced a squirrel or a raccoon. Instead who do I face? A scythe wielding dark wizard who cuts me up into bite-size pieces! I mean, c'mon! I didn't even get a 33/66 split here!!!

Pikachu: Pika-pi?

Sam: That does it! *BLAM*

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ramza: Yup. I was defeated by a pink puffball. Please excuse me while I fall on my sword.

Lara: Hey, don't let ME stand in your way.

Ramza: And afterwards, could you hold my mortally wounded body close to your chest and pretend we were lovers?

Lara: O_O *BLAM*

Ramza: Worth..... a shot....... *blarg*

~~~~~~~~~

Samus: TJF? What's THAT supposed to mean?

Master Chief: It means that all your fans cleared Metroid REALLY quickly.

Samus: Feh. I bet Halo fans never see YOU naked.

Master Chief: No..... but would YOU like to?

Samus: ........... *blaster-shot-noise*

MC: Gotta work on my pick-up lines..... serves me right for getting them........ from Cortana......

~~~~~~~~

Vercetti: Helloooooo, sweet-cheeks....

Raiden: O_O Help! Pedophile!

Vercetti: Oops, wrong gender. My bad.
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/23/2003 7:37:03 PM | Message Detail
Sales don't mean much. Mario has 7 games among the 10 most sold of all time, yet tanked against a one-game wonder (with a cameo, okay). Pokémania still seems to be running wild, but Pikachu was wasted by FOX MCCLOUD of all people (and that's not even bringing up PaRappa). But the real shocker... Conker's Bad Fur Day apparently sold in the five digits, yet Yoshi failed to double him. And I doubt that support comes from Diddy Kong Racing...
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Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | Posted: 10/23/2003 7:37:16 PM | Message Detail
I stand corrected. I thought I remember reading somewhere that Zero was the upgraded form of Protoman. Dammit. >_<

Don't worry too much about it. I'm just a rabid Zero fanboy who happened to stumble across the topic. ^_^
---
"America's belief in angels will be rewarded when thousands are discovered in a secluded valley. They will taste like veal." - Conan O'Brien
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/23/2003 8:09:09 PM | Message Detail
.....except one would think that you can't have a popular game without selling a lot of units..... maybe emulation helped..... maybe not.....

And yes, Conker is a strange one. (the only one I played was the GBC)
---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
Give blood. Play Rugby.
From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 10/24/2003 2:06:12 PM | Message Detail
Some late comments on Haste2's standings.

If Claire Redfield really is more popular than Jill, then I say ditch Jill and put Claire back in.

Morrigan's pretty high, and should return next year. Same with Strider.

Aya Brea is low(below CATS?!), but that's mostly due to Mario's pwnage of DK the next round. Same with Kefka and Crono. And Pac-Man, I suppose. I'd like to see her return as well next year.

If Auron was affected by SFF, if only by a few percent, then that might put him with Bowser, Ryu, and Zelda. I'd love to see an Auron/Tidus match.

And lastly, I find it hilarious that CATS is above so many people.
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros
From: Haste2 | Posted: 10/24/2003 11:51:02 PM | Message Detail
If Claire Redfield really is more popular than Jill, then I say ditch Jill and put Claire back in.
In creativename's list, Claire Redfield is just *barely* ahead of Jill, which would make more sense. This is one reason I support that version. Of course, the Tidus anti-vote could've been at least part of the reason of making Claire look good, also. =p I just could never believe Claire is truly > Jill.

Morrigan's pretty high, and should return next year. Same with Strider.
Couldn't agree more.

Same with Kefka and Crono. And Pac-Man, I suppose. I'd like to see her return as well next year.
Heh, if you compare Pac-Man 2003 to Scorpion 2003, Scorpion would win with 70 friggin' percent, as opposed to 57/58% in 2002. SFF really took into effect, perhaps the 2nd most of any match, which is quite shockingly to me, actually. THAT many people would pick Kefka over Pac-Man, yet not think he's great enough to pick him over a mute? I thought Kefka would have the most dilligent fanbase. Or perhaps the casual GameFAQs people really liked the lettuce Kefka? (yeah, right)

If Auron was affected by SFF, if only by a few percent, then that might put him with Bowser, Ryu, and Zelda. I'd love to see an Auron/Tidus match.
Using a bunch of steps involving Tails, Auron, and Alucard (I tried to account for increases, and mixing 2002 and 2003 numbers is risky, yes) and it seems that Cloud would get 68% had there been no SFF. So I believe it was there, but not in a great amount. Thus I think Tidus gets more support than Auron. but it sure seems like Auron would gain the upper hand if he actually went against Tidus since Auron's so much cooler in every way. Oh yes, and I do believe Auron would beat Bowser, but just barely.

And lastly, I find it hilarious that CATS is above so many people.
Heh, well Servbot is still leagues ahead of CATS, hehe.

Cromage, I like your ideas on how head-to-head matches would change. Crono would undoubtedly destroy Magus, no doubt, looking at what he did to Kefka. Still, I get wondering about Mario vs. Luigi or Mario vs. Bowser. I believe voter's perspectives could change dramatically on those matchup, and go against all odds and pull Luigi and Bowser very close. Or, at least I cross my fingers, if we could someday see those.

Also, about Shadow losing if he faced another Sonic character? No way... in fact, I think Shadow is the ultimate casual-vote-attractor. The Sonic fans may go with Knuckles or Tails over Shadow, but Shadow will get everybody else's support, I believe.

I also have a hypothesis:
In terms of anti-votes, Nintendo seems to get more of them in general. Link only managed 84% against Little Mac, even worse than Sephiroth did with Gabe Logan, who got 88%. I mean, come on, Gabe Logan would easily beat Little Mac. Basically, this might mean Nintendo gets more anti-votes than Square. Also, note that Samus got 65% against Ken, while Sonic, the very next year, got 69% even though Sonic actually *dropped* in popularity. And you can always remember Mega Man's amazing blowouts over a year ago. This gets me to believe that non-Square/non-Nintendo characters get very few anti-votes, as well, by evidence. Of course that would make sense by some reasoning.

Another interesting thing to compare is Crono and Mega Man against AC characters: Mega Man did 3% better. I suppose Tom Nook would have more fans than Mr. Resetti, but...I don't think much.

So basically, Nintendo gets the most anti-votes, followed by Square, and then finally "Other", especially Capcom and Sonic. It's just another idea dealing with the varying performances of weaker characters (actually, Ken isn't so weak).

---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think."
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/25/2003 5:44:30 AM | Message Detail
Hmm.... not sure how much Crono vs Kefka showed us, to be honest. Fanbase-splits can be a fickle thing. And of course, we ALL know how badly Kefka got shafted with his picture. I think Kefka would have done a lot better if he hadn't gone up against Crono.

---
Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
Give blood. Play Rugby.
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/25/2003 5:51:57 AM | Message Detail
Hmmm... I wouldn't underestimate Little Mac if I were you. He's huge for an old-school character. Besides, Pitfall Harry got a similar score against Sonic, and Bub would likely do decent against Megaman.
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Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: Yesmar | Posted: 10/25/2003 12:02:06 PM | Message Detail
The only person that gets more anti-votes than Nintendo characters is Master Chief. Mario may get more, though. It would be really funny to see both go up against each other.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...--Ganondorf
Mad Caddies Team Member
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/25/2003 12:20:11 PM | Message Detail
Know what? If Geno ended up bombing (likely), it would happen in my bracket. There's also the fact that MC will never lose decisively; Aeris made him (and Felix) look like a million dollars. Like I said sometime, he'll have a hard time doubling a random jobber, but Cloud will have a hard time doubling him as well.
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Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 10/25/2003 9:38:11 PM | Message Detail
I'd say Tommy Vercetti and Lara Croft are both also prone to many anti-votes. Maybe as much as MC and the Nintendo characters.
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros
From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 10/26/2003 8:35:32 PM | Message Detail
Bump!
---
"Run! Run! Or you'll be well done!" - Kefka
"Don't tease the octopus, kids!" - Ultros
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/27/2003 2:17:03 PM | Message Detail
Shake said this in another topic:

That's why Advent Children will totally ruin FF VII for most of us, at least if it gives us the answers, because they will always disappoint.

FF VII is loved because the story leaves room for interpretation : We can fill in the vague spots with whatever we want. For some that is labeling Sephiroth a third-rate villain, merely a puppet. For others its idolizing Sephiroth or Cloud or supporting the theory Aerith died on purpose, but since we have no conclusive evidence these are moot points. We have no way to be sure.

Do you think AC could indeed kill off FF7's popularity because of that? It seems to fit perfectly my theory on that movie: it will single-handedly ensure a repeat Cloud-Sephiroth final next year, and single-handedly destroy their chances the following years, if there ever is a Summer Contest in 2005 and beyond.
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Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: Cromage | Posted: 10/27/2003 3:24:46 PM | Message Detail
Rematches of 2002-2003 (again, this may have been done before)

Mario vs Crono

2k2: Mario - 53831
Crono - 53716

2k3: Mario - 66571
Crono - 66434

Analysis: **** it. What can I say about this match that hasn't been said before? Frankly..... nothing. Especially after reading Ultimaterializer's 6-7 post analysis. o_o;;;

This one was a nail-biter all the way through. I remember going to sleep thinking that Crono had won it. It didn't matter so much to me--I took Crono's side as the underdog. I thought that some flips should occur just to make things interesting, and I WAS a CT fan. I didn't lose any sleep over the matter though.

I DID think Cjay's handling of the contest was pretty damn sloppy. The biggest (re)match of the contest? You should have made DAMN sure the starting and ending times were exactly 24 hours apart. I have little sympathy for you and any hate mail you may have received as a result--you knew this match would be more volatile than a hot-air balloon filled with Moltov cocktails. And that doesn't even make SENSE.

So what does this demonstrate? Sephy's consequent trashing of the beloved Nintendo idol shows us this isn't just a comparison of Nintendo vs Square. Maybe it has to do with Sephy's popularity itself. Or maybe it's more of an old vs new thing--new Square (Sephy) succeeds where old Square (Crono) fails. If that's the case though..... Square definately ended up on the top of this. Or maybe "new" isn't the right word to describe Sephy. After all, FF7's been out for what, 8 years? Ol' Rip van Link slept for longer. =P

Snake vs Knuckles

2k2: Snake - 41335 (60.7%)
Knuckles - 26748 (39.3%)

2k3: Snake - 61038 (63.1%)
Knuckles - 35646 (36.9%)

Yup. From Mario vs Crono to this rather under-the-radar rematch. Note I actually took the time to calculate the percentages (I'm a lazy bum--my Excel file only has the raw vote totals for now) because unlike MvC, they were actually significant. Well.... maybe 3 percentage points isn't THAT significant...... screw it. I had a point to make, but there isn't enough of a difference to really back it up. I still think going 3rd-party hurt the Sonic team, but it's hard to dredge up concrete proof.

Megaman vs Sephiroth

2k2: Sephiroth - 49172 (50.5%)
Megaman - 48185 (49.5%)
2k3: Sephiroth - 75979 (61.2%)
Megaman - 48213 (38.8%)

Wow.... is it just me or did this NOT get noticed enough. The most significant rematch of the contest (if not the most hyped), it really showcases the power of 1-hit-wonder (okay..... 2-hit, counting KH) of the silver-haired sword-wielding Sephy over our acclaimed azure arcade android.

Okay, I'll stop now. Before I come up with more, bannable s-words for the winner. ^_~

Seriously, though..... Megaman got farther this year because he didn't have to face Sephy until the semi-finals. The question is: is it Square or Capcom? (Or FF vs Megaman, or simply Sephy vs Megaman) Capcom is a lesser-recognized company, to be sure. Superficially, it DOES seem that Megaman's company has not fared so well in the past year..... fewer ground-breaks, anyway. Yet 2 out of the Sweet 16 were Capcom, as opposed to only 1 last year. So maybe it's not them....

And now let's look at the later matches. In 2k2, Megaman was Sephy's toughest challenge until his defeat at Link's hands. Samus was actually easier. (which is why the Samus > Link people always confused me, Metroid P/F or no Metroid P/F) But in 2k3, Megaman was merely another speed bump, unable to even pull off a 40/60 split to preserve his former glory. And yet, he did better than Mario!

Conclusion: Square has definately grown, people. And no other area shows this better than the bottom 2.

This is Cromage, blowing yet another hour on a pointless analysis. See ya' around.
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Furopon World: Unofficial furry board of GameFAQs. No trolls allowed.
Give blood. Play Rugby.
From: Slowflake | Posted: 10/27/2003 3:52:51 PM | Message Detail
Square as a whole? No. *points to Crono, Magus, Kefka and Ramza* New-school FF games? Damn sure.

Cloud: Biggest improvement of all. Went from a loss to Mario to the championship. 'Nuff said.
Sephiroth: Granted, Megaman probably performed better than he should have last year with all that hype, but Seph couldn't have slaughtered him like this year. And when I picked Sephiroth to beat Mario, I though 51-49. Not 62-38!
Aeris: Gained a little ground. But just a little, especially if Snake = Sonic.
Squall: Do I REALLY need to come back on this one? Especially if Samus > Snake...
Tidus: Magus was as close to the elites as he possibly could, and Tidus was as close to Magus as he possibly could. But Tidus was still far behind Sonic in 2002.

And of course, there's the bad and the ugly.

Kefka: Biggest dud ever. Barely beating Pac-Man sure ain't impressive... Raziel could beat Pac-Man.
Ramza: FFT was shown to have a vocal, yet small, fanbase, not unlike Earthbound.
Crono: Let's take his lead before Mario's clutch. 800 votes... that's negligeable, and there are bound to be votes that were there just because of last year.
Magus: Actually did okay, but considering GameFAQs is, like, the only website favoring Crono over him, that's not so good anymore.

My two cents.
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Magus isn't evil. He just wants to kill an enormous intergalactic tick for denying him the chance to grow up enough to bone his sister. -SFvB
From: Shake | Posted: 10/27/2003 4:21:15 PM | Message Detail
I said it many times, SlowFlake, and I agree that they may work positively for the short-term, but I know it will be devastating in the long term.

The only way this doesn't happen IMO is when AC is so utterly horrible, it will be neglected and refuted as cannon.

We will play ostrich and pretend it never happened. I am particularly worried for Sephiroth, because he will undoubtedly have a few action scenes, but any disclosure removing the mystery will make his popularity plummeth.

BTW, its great to read this topic again. Although I don't post much here, because I enjoy but cannot post the kind of calculations you guys do, I still read every word of it.

Keep it up ! ^_~
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OH MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR! Mario's up! Dammit,not like this! Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd!
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