Summer 2003 Contest
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:51:05 PM | Message Detail
Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Knuckles, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Squall, Bowser, and Zelda
7th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Scorpion, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, Ryu, Yuna, Knuckles, Lara Croft, Ken, and Fox
8th Tier: Alucard, Kirby, Dante, Pac Man, Kefka, Wario, and Sora
9th Tier: Tommy Vercetti and Donkey Kong
10th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, and Crash
11th Tier: Master Chief, Ramza, Max Payne, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Isaac, Felix, Ratchet, Conker, and Ness
CATS: CATS
Sweat Stains: AiAi, Sam Fisher, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman

Looks better... I may disagree wiht a few people but I would actually expect to see MM on level with Crono and Mario and Sonic, Snake and Samus (who alll seem to perform on a simlar level) on the same tier. I still tihnk 4 should be split as Magus has certainly proven his superiority over those who I mentions should be lower than him. We may not know who would win between Magus, Aeris, Zero and Knux but they all seem ready to take the others down.
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From: Garsha | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:51:13 PM | Message Detail
ChichiriMuyo, delete that post, and rewrite it without that censor bypass. Do it, or enjoy your karma loss.
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:54:28 PM | Message Detail
Don't recal him havign a chance to face any of them, but dont bother correcting me if im wrong because im going to recheck after i post this. I do know, however, that he slaps most everyone in his tier silly.
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:57:14 PM | Message Detail
Redone for those too young to hear implications of strong language.

7th Tier: Alucard, Kirby, Dante, Pac Man, Kefka, Wario, and Sora. I put Alucard and Kirby in the same tier, just to **** with those who are arguing about it. Ha to you.

Funny, as soon as I saw Alucard I thought to myself "Is this kid <bleeped out expletive deleted> me or is he fruit loops?" Alucard's performance should warrent a spot in the next high division...

Also, you have Zero in two places. Further more I think by 2k4 we can assume that Zero, Magus, Knuckles and Aeris will likely show themselves to be 3rd tier and Snake will either finally get his push upwars to be on level with the 2nd tiers or he'll just be another joke who needs his own little tier. Auron, Tidus, Ganon and Shadow are good, but I think any of the others I mentioned could take them fairly well. Knux obviously hasn't had the chance to properly prove himself, but if he didn't meet with Snake every year he could proably take himself to the sweet 16 easily. Between Shadow and Knux I think the sonic fans will take knux, and I dont doubt his ability to tango withthe rest. Aeris, though the numbers dont show it so well, is basically on the same level as snake as long as she doesn't fight snake. She's never even came to a point where she was in danger against a non-elite 9 and considering snkae was expected to go to the final four she did okay agaisnt him (of course he proved himself to be less than expected) and her loss to Sonic wasn't quite as bad as the loss to Snake (though keeping an elite 9 from reaching 60% isn't bad at all) and Snake is supposed to be weaker than sonic, thus showing she's coming that much closer to the elite 9. Magus Already proved himself Supperior to that lot, and would have had a higher % on Ganon if there wasn't the possibility of a Link/Ganon match. And Zero isn't half bad at all, almost managing as high a % on Sonic as Aeris did. I'd split the tier just like that to make it smaller and more manageable and because I do believe that they have what it takes to topple te others (except the unproven knux)
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:57:24 PM | Message Detail
Mario should go down one tier. He was crushed by Sephiroth, remember ? And SC2K2 was SC2K2, it shouldn't count that much anymore.

I have a Mario/Crono tier. And I seriously think that Mario`s beating was more Crono revenge than anything else. I also think that this is the reason he lost so badly in 2002 to Link. He faced Crono a mere two days before tha match took place.

Drop Sonic to 3rd tier, with Snake.

Sonic is right where he belongs. Snake can`t beat him. And besides, how could Sonic and Samus not be in the same tier with each other?

Knuckles has nothing to do in the 4th tier, but since you put him somewhere else too, I guess that was just a mistake.

And why doesn`t Knuckles belong in the 4th tier? I fixed the error, I think.... no, wait, I didn`t.
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 4:59:38 PM | Message Detail
In fact, I think only Dante and Kefka could even give him a run for his money in his tier. Still whink he could take either though. Pac isn't but a shadow of what he once was and Alu beat Kirby already. Its not a balanced tier if one character is smacking the crap out of half the others in it.
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:00:08 PM | Message Detail
Please don`t re-post tiers. Just make suggestions.

Anyhoo, with Knuckles only in it once...

Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Knuckles, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Squall, Bowser, and Zelda
7th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Scorpion, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, Ryu, Yuna, Lara Croft, Ken, and Alucard
8th Tier: Fox, Kirby, Dante, Pac Man, Kefka, Wario, Sora, and Tails
9th Tier: Tommy Vercetti and Donkey Kong
10th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, and Crash
11th Tier: Master Chief, Ramza, Max Payne, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Isaac, Felix, Ratchet, Conker, and Ness
CATS: CATS
Sweat Stains: AiAi, Sam Fisher, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman

There. Knuckles is only in one place, and I switched around Alucard and Fox.
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:04:43 PM | Message Detail
Alucard does look better there, I've always though due to his performance against bomberman he was about on level with jill
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:08:19 PM | Message Detail
Well, I`m glad I could make you happy, Muyo ;)

Hopefully, is Snowflake remakes this topic, he`ll copy-paste the tiers.
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From: Cromage | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:14:51 PM | Message Detail
Teeny-tiny nitpicks.

I don't think Lara deserves her place. She was closer to Ryo than she was to Zelda.

Knuckles was closer to Yuna than he was to Snake.

Other than that, it looks good. (poor Gordon >.>)
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From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:21:38 PM | Message Detail
Well, all of my comments were mainly for your first proposition of tiers.

Anyway. This new list looks much better. Still a few suggestions though.

About Knuckles, instead of erasing one of the two, an average would be better I think. I really don't see him with the likes of Magus and Zero. So I'll drop him to 6th.

Pac-Man and Kefka (not Megaman lol) are equal, and Kefka lost pretty badly to Crono. I'd drop them one tier and replace with Tommy Vercetti and Donkey Kong, which are still very underrated imo. They're equal, and Tommy didn't do that bad against Megaman. I'd definitely put them above Pac-Man and Kefka though.

Tails and Fox are right at the frontier of tier 8 and 9. You could balance tiers by putting them both in Tier 9.

Master Chief did well against Aeris. And Felix is equal to Master Chief, and Isaac is probably not very far behind. Point is, I wouldn't think too long to have them win against any other character from their tier. Tier 11 is overcrowded anyway, so I'd put Master Chief and Felix up to Tier 9, and Isaac in Tier 10.

Alright, that's all I had to say. Good job though.
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:39:16 PM | Message Detail
Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Knuckles, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Squall, Bowser, and Zelda
7th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Scorpion, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, Ryu, Yuna, Lara Croft, Ken, and Alucard
8th Tier: Fox, Kirby, Dante, Wario, Sora, and Tails
9th Tier: Tommy Vercetti and Donkey Kong
10th Tier: Pac Man and Kefka
11th Tier: Master Chief
12th Tier: Felix and Isaac
13th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, Ramza, and Crash
14th Tier: Max Payne, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Ratchet, Conker, and Ness
CATS: CATS
Sweat Stains: AiAi, Sam Fisher, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman

Are we at least in agreement that Gordon belongs where he is?
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:40:39 PM | Message Detail
Yes, I think we can all agree about Gordon
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From: Cromage | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:43:38 PM | Message Detail
I don't, but because it's amusing, I'll let it stand. I still stick to what I said about Lara and Knuckles, though.
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 5:56:34 PM | Message Detail
Lara's declining performance does put such a possiiton in question. I have little doubt that next year she wont even be that high. Thats next year though... so we'll have to wait and see
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From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:00:02 PM | Message Detail
My turn.

I don't think Mario and Crono should be given a tier to themselves just because of lucky bracket placement. I've seen nothing to make me think that they would beat MM and Samus with any degree of regularity (or the other way around, make no mistake). In fact, MM outperformed Mario against Sephiroth this year, suggesting he may be stronger. I think you properly rate Sonic along with that group, although the cold hard numbers don't bear that out. I would definitely put my money on Sonic against Mario. Conclusion: Compress tier 2 and 3 into a single group.

Knuckles was better off where he was. He certainly doesn't belong in the same sentence as Magus. I'm willing to let Auron into this group, although once again the numbers don't back us up, because it's common sense. Conclusion: Drop Knux down one level (if not two).

Ryu would beat, ranging to destroy, everyone you've grouped him with. He kept the score much closer with Snake and Samus than anyone in that bunch did against any of Snake, Samus, Squall, Bowser, Zelda, Zero, etc. No way any of them would get over 45% against him. Conclusion: Move Ryu up one tier, joining Squall, Bowser, Zelda, and Knux.

What are Lara and Ken doing here? Zelda doubled Lara up almost, and Crono slaughtered her. Lara belongs with Pac-Man and Kefka, who you have overrated as well, or maybe one step above. Ken, well, we'll never know. But if I had to guess, I'd NEVER pick him over Scorpion, Alucard, or Yoshi. Conclusion: Drop Lara 1 or 2 levels, probably Ken 1.

Like Ken, it's hard to figure Fox out, but this is probably a good guess. But why are Pac-Man, Kefka, and Wario given a chance against these guys? Kefka (and by extension, Pac-Man) did against Crono what Fox did against Link, give or take. Link>Crono, so surely Fox>Pac/Kefka. And Dante is only slightly weaker than Ryu, so with Ryu moving up, he should too. Conclusion: Drop Pac-Man, Kefka, and Wario 1. Raise Dante 1.

Like MM with Mario, I'm pretty sure DK and Vercetti could beat Kirby, Sora, Tails, Ken, and Lara, or at least keep it very close. Remember, Zelda didn't do whole tons better against MM than Vercetti, not enough to warrant a three-tier advantage over him. Conclusion: Raise DK and Vercetti 1 (this tier is now Pac, Kefka, Wario, and maybe Lara).

Whoa, whoa, hold the phone. Master Chief would not lose to Pikachu or Crash. Sure, he gets lots of hate, but he got the job done with Felix (best pic ever?), and performed pretty well against Aeris. I'd say he's on par with Pac-Man, leapfrogging the "annoying" tier 10. Conclusion: Move MC up 2.

Raziel did a tiny bit better than Max did against Sephiroth. Conclusion: Move Raziel up 1 (even with Max).

The rest you have ranked appropriately (maybe Felix really is better than those guys, who knows). Oh, and Sam Fisher did fine against Magus, who did fine against Link. He's no Aiai/Gordy.
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From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:03:36 PM | Message Detail
oops, you fixed Pac-Man, Kefka, and MC while I was typing that. I still say DK and Vercetti belong with Kirby and Sora, though.
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From: Garsha | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:12:42 PM | Message Detail
This topic is almost at 500. Someone MUST save these pages when it gets to 500.
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:14:13 PM | Message Detail
Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Shadow the Hedgehog, Knuckles, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Squall, Bowser, Ryu, and Zelda
7th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Dante, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, Yuna, and Alucard
8th Tier: Fox, Ken, Scorpion, Lara Croft, Wario, Sora, and Tails
9th Tier: Kirby, Tommy Vercetti, and Donkey Kong
10th Tier: Pac Man, Kefka, and Master Chief
11th Tier: Felix and Isaac
12th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, Ramza, and Crash
13th Tier: Max Payne, Raziel, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Ratchet, Conker, Sam Fisher, and Ness
14th Tier: CATS, AiAi, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:22:05 PM | Message Detail
might as well call thta last tier "loser who shouldn't be in the contest anymore"
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:23:19 PM | Message Detail
Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Shadow the Hedgehog and Knuckles
7th Tier: Squall, Bowser, Ryu, and Zelda
8th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Dante, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, 9una, and Alucard
10th Tier: Fox, Ken, Scorpion, Lara Croft, Wario, Sora, and Tails
11th Tier: Kirby, Tommy Vercetti, and Donkey Kong
12th Tier: Pac Man, Kefka, and Master Chief
13th Tier: Felix and Isaac
14th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, Ramza, and Crash
15th Tier: Max Payne, Raziel, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Ratchet, Conker, Sam Fisher, and Ness
16th Tier: CATS, AiAi, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman
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From: StopPokingMe | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:24:48 PM | Message Detail
Alucard barely squeaked by Kirby. How does that justify a two-tier advantage?

Knuckles is not that good. Zelda got 40% against MM. Knux, at his best, got 40% against Snake. MM outperformed Snake both years. Zelda > Knuckles.

And Magus' 35% against Link is worth more than Zelda's 40% against MM, so don't go doing something crazy like bumping Zelda up.
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From: UltimaterializerX | Posted: 11/17/2003 6:28:50 PM | Message Detail
Top Tier: Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth
2nd Tier: Crono and Mario
3rd Tier: Mega Man, Samus, and Sonic
4th Tier: Snake
5th Tier: Auron, Ganondorf, Tidus, Magus, Zero, and Aeris
6th Tier: Shadow the Hedgehog
7th Tier: Squall, Knuckes, Bowser, Ryu, and Zelda
8th Tier: Luigi, Jill Valentine, Dante, KOS-MOS, Yoshi, Yuna, and Alucard
9th Tier: Fox, Ken, Scorpion, Kirby, Lara Croft, Wario, Sora, and Tails
10th Tier: Tommy Vercetti, and Donkey Kong
11th Tier: Pac Man, Kefka, and Master Chief
12th Tier: Felix and Isaac
13th Tier: Pikachu, Raiden, Bomberman, Ramza, and Crash
14th Tier: Max Payne, Raziel, Duke Nukem, Ryo Hazuki, Ratchet, Conker, Sam Fisher, and Ness
15th Tier: CATS, AiAi, Captain Olimar, Vyse, Kite, Tom Nook, Mr. Resetti, and Raziel
Gordon Freeman: Gordon Freeman
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From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 7:06:23 PM | Message Detail
Why is shadow in a tier of his own? I dunon if its just my opinion but I dont think he rates higher than knux. I mean, really, a lot of his standing could be chalked up to mario anti-vote. Obviously we cant prove that one either way, but I think he got a dream seeding than pretty much any new char would die to have.
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We knew our love could not pretend, Broken hearts can always mend. - "Send Her My Love" Journey
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/17/2003 9:09:18 PM | Message Detail
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
From: Shake II | Posted: 11/18/2003 3:53:39 AM | Message Detail
SPM has a lot of points.

But I disagree with the Mario/Megaman conclusion. If Mario was any other character, I would agree.

But its almost a fact now that Mario's clutch is genuine. He's never lost a close match. I don't think Crono would lose with that much against Sephiroth, but it was too much of a class difference for the clutch to be effective.

Somehow, as much as I'd hate it, I would expect Mario to edge out Megaman if they ever met.
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From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/18/2003 3:59:26 AM | Message Detail
I have an idea to make tiers; this is based on both cn and Haste2's rankings list. Basically, I close a tier when both list agree that all from a given tier are stronger than the lower tiers, and weaker than the higher ones. I also give some comments why the result makes sense; in the first few tiers, I took the decision to close a tier or not by myself, taking strength gaps into account.

Top tier : Link, Cloud, Sephiroth
No comment needed, I think we can all agree on this.

2nd Tier : Mario, Crono, Megaman, Samus

Maybe Sonic decreased from last year, or Samus increased from this year. Anyway, Samus against Link was much better than Sonic against Cloud. So they shouldn't be in the same tier anymore.

3rd Tier : Sonic, Snake, Ganondorf, Magus, Tidus, Zero, Shadow, Aeris

Sonic/Aeris was pretty close. Them being in the same tier is not that farfetched. Same with Zero of course. Should really Shadow be there or not ? Next year will tell.

4th tier : Squall, Bowser, Ryu, Zelda, Auron

All of these characters didn't too bad against a 1st or 2nd tier character. We can't know for sure how strong they are to each other.

5th tier : Dante, Alucard, Yoshi, Kirby, Master Chief, Knuckles

Master Chief did very well against Aeris, he deserves a somewhat high tier.

6th tier : Tommy Vercetti, Donkey Kong, Jill Valentine, Scorpion, Luigi

Tommy Vercetti and Donkey Kong are underrated. Not everybody can get 35000+ votes against Megaman.

7th tier : Felix, Sam Fisher, Wario, Yuna, KOS-MOS

Seems reasonable to me; Sam Fisher did well against Magus. The only problem is Felix, whose strength comes from Master Chief's match against Aeris - maybe not 100% accurate.

8th tier : Yuna, Ramza, Lara Croft, Ken, Tails

I would have put Ramza in a lower tier; then again, I know nothing about FFT so... Weak characters here, but not as weak as the ones below.

9th tier : Raziel, Fox, Bomberman, Max Payne, Isaac, Vyse, Conker, Gordon Freeman, Duke Nukem, Kite, Kefka, Crash Bandicoot, Pac-Man, Ness, CATS

Lots of people here, because cn's and Haste2's lists are not very close anymore. But in the lower tiers, this is difficult to draw definite conclusions anyway. Fact is, I won't bet on any of these people to win their first round. CATS cannot be put in the lowest tier, or he'll drag all of these people down with him, according to the rules I made these tiers with.

10th tier : Ratchet, Ryo Hazuki, Raiden, Pikachu, Tom Nook, Captain Olimar, AiAi, Mr. Resetti

Fodder.
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From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 5:31:28 AM | Message Detail
Heroic Tails' list is absolutely PERFECT, except for Shadow, who I think would be hard-pressed to get 40% against Crono right now. But with Sonic Heroes on the way... can he get some new potential to tap?

In other news, I'll probably mess with the topic title a bit for the next topic, so that it makes some sense.
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From: Sir Chris | Posted: 11/18/2003 6:55:02 AM | Message Detail
I have to disagree with alucard and kirby being in the same tier on that list, alucard is stronger than kirby and should be placed one tier above him, imo ;o(stronger enough to merit a tier change)
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From: HakeS | Posted: 11/18/2003 6:59:59 AM | Message Detail
Yuna is on both the 8th tier and the 8th. I think she belongs on the 8th tier.

And I definately believe given the margins we use Kirby belongs with Alucard.

*sigh* Every time I look at these, I think : Kefka.....

WHY GOD WHY !!!!!! </irrational frustration>

(^_^) I'm ALL BETTER NOW !
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From: HakeS | Posted: 11/18/2003 7:05:14 AM | Message Detail
From: HakeS | Posted: 11/18/2003 6:59:59 AM | Message Detail
Yuna is on both the 8th tier and the 8th. I think she belongs on the 8th tier.

Worst. Argument. EVER.

I meant the 8th and the 9th.

>_>

<_<

*double-checks for errors*

Pheww.....

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From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 7:19:20 AM | Message Detail
Oh, you mean not on HT's list. You had me for a second there.

Yuna indeed did decent against Knuckles, who's not all that bad. She should be a decent midpacker, if we don't consider potential changes due to Final Fantasm 3-X.
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From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/18/2003 7:21:31 AM | Message Detail
My mistake about Yuna. 7th and 8th should read like this :

7th tier : Felix, Sam Fisher, Wario, Yuna, KOS-MOS

8th tier : Sora, Ramza, Lara Croft, Ken, Tails

By the way (not related), here are all the characters which are at a frontier between two tiers (so where changes are possible according to my method) :

1st/2nd : technically, Megaman, but he really is in 2nd tier.

2nd/3rd : Snake. 3rd tier is good for him, since there is a gap between him and 2nd tier characters.

3rd/4th : Aeris. Pretty big gap with the 4th tier, so she should stay in 3rd tier.

4th/5th : none.

5th/6th : Tommy Vercetti. Not much gap with 5th tier. But he'll stay in 6th to balance the number of characters in each tier.

6th/7th : Felix. He should change to 6th tier, because there is quite a gap between him and the other 7th tier character. But I somewhat feel he is too highly ranked, because of Master Chief. He'll stay in 7th.

7th/8th : none.

8th/9th : Tails. Gaps on both side, could be in a tier of his own. He'll stay in 8th, thanks - undeniably the weakest of them though.

9th/10th : none.

As for Alucard/Kirby, their match was pretty close. Since Sonic and Aeris are in the same tier, there is no reason not to allow Alucard and Kirby to be in the same tier too.
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A typo that results in the word "typo" is the greatest typo of them all. - UltimaterializerX
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 7:28:18 AM | Message Detail
Felix is definitely not that strong. We'd need to see him in action against someone else than MC. I'll say it again, MC has a severe case of the Mario syndrome. He'll have a hard time doubling AiAi, but Cloud will have a hard time doubling him. Why, even Aeris didn't come close.
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 10:12:33 AM | Message Detail
Bump to remind people to POST IN THIS ONE UNTIL IT HITS 500!!!
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 11/18/2003 1:35:34 PM | Message Detail
Okay....
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"A long, long time ago the world was in an age of chaos." ~The Legend of Zelda
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/18/2003 3:52:12 PM | Message Detail
Funny, Jill is below Kirby yet she beat him pretty handily last year. She's obviously a good deal weaker than Squall but I would believe she's still capable of taking Kirby out.
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We knew our love could not pretend, Broken hearts can always mend. - "Send Her My Love" Journey
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 3:57:42 PM | Message Detail
Kirby would likely have gotten something like 25-26% against Cloud... pretty much what 2002 Jill vs. 2003 Cloud would have turned out. These two would make it right down to the wire if it was redone.
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/18/2003 3:59:38 PM | Message Detail
Yes, your words are true... which if in specualtion its that close... *nudges Jill and Kirby closer together*
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We knew our love could not pretend, Broken hearts can always mend. - "Send Her My Love" Journey
From: Jigglyman | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:01:37 PM | Message Detail
*walks in*

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If babies were shot out of the mother... (like any woman wishes)
"Go long! Go long!" "Oh no, TRIPLETS!"
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:05:04 PM | Message Detail
I have been experimenting with other rankings system lately...

I tried a very simple one; although different from Haste2's and creativename's methods, I got pretty much the same list as cn, with a few close characters switched here and there.

I also tried something funny, with the following results (I put it here just for laughing purpose; it is pretty clear it's not accurate at all). The idea was to use logarithmic rankings, so the following values are not directly convertible to percentages :

Cloud 0.0000
Link -0.0666
Sephiroth -0.0787
Megaman -0,6549
Mario -0.6828
Crono -0.6849
Samus -0.7024
Snake -0,8052

Shadow -0.9100
Magus -0.9297
Ganondorf -0.9416
Sonic -0.9592
Tidus -0.9693
Zero -1.0574
Aeris -1.0878
Squall -1.0947

Ryu -1.1448
Zelda -1.2030
Dante -1.3191
Bowser -1.3364
Knuckles -1.5175
Jill Valentine -1.5942
Auron -1.5966
Master Chief -1.5969

Luigi -1.6079
Yoshi -1.6269
Tommy Vercetti -1.6720
Alucard -1.6859
Donkey Kong -1.6912
Felix -1.7227
Scorpion -1.7485
Yuna -1.7554

Wario -1.7567
Kirby -1.7723
Lara Croft -1.8551
Sam Fisher -1.8930
KOS-MOS -2.0048
Sora -2.0868
Ramza Beoulves -2.1343
Ken -2.1761

Vyse -2.3521
Tails -2.4112
Duke Nukem -2.4698
Bomberman -2.4995
Kite -2.5489
Crash Bandicoot -2.6348
Isaac -2.7567
Ness -3.3379

Kefka -3.4279
Pac-Man -3.4665
Ratchet -3.5354
Raziel -3.6338
Ryo Hazuki -3.7939
Fox -3.7696
Max Payne -3.8379
Raiden -4.6472

Gordon Freeman -4.0113
Pikachu -4.9611
CATS -5.6407
Tom Nook -5.7295
Captain Olimar -7.3201
Mr. Resetti -7.7164
AiAi -9.6322

I put in bold some misplaced characters (among others). The one big problem with this system is that characters that lose badly (even against a strong character) are way too much penalized. For example Sonic and Auron.

Interestingly enough, Jill Valentine is still stronger than Kirby here.

Is that useful ? Absolutely not.
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A typo that results in the word "typo" is the greatest typo of them all. - UltimaterializerX
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:07:24 PM | Message Detail
How are Auron, Vyse and Kite misplaced? I think not.
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:09:16 PM | Message Detail
If not for the strong penalty for severe losses I would wager to say that method would be quite good. If only we could find a way to make the loss margin less of a factor.
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We knew our love could not pretend, Broken hearts can always mend. - "Send Her My Love" Journey
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:13:24 PM | Message Detail
Hum, yeah, I'm getting tired. Jill is misplaced, not Auron. As for Vyse and Kite, I don't know but when I looked at the end result for the first time, I thought they were misplaced. Sorry.
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A typo that results in the word "typo" is the greatest typo of them all. - UltimaterializerX
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:15:21 PM | Message Detail
Although, Felix is really misplaced here. Consequence of MC's Rubber Band Factor, most likely.
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: Garsha | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:16:48 PM | Message Detail
Someone's gotta archive this topic when it gets to 500.
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I'm a guy.
MyWorldIsSquare - Pwned by the mods - 8/26/2002 12:06:49 AM - 11/11/2003 1:27:52 AM - R.I.P.
From: Heroic Tails | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:18:23 PM | Message Detail
Felix is too high, mainly because he's at the end of a close matches chain. Actually, unlike cn's rankings, the longer the chain to reach a strong character, the better for the character.
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A typo that results in the word "typo" is the greatest typo of them all. - UltimaterializerX
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:18:43 PM | Message Detail
I already made the request in the next topic, which is already created BTW. Just waiting for the right moment to bump it up.
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
From: Lightning Legs | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:19:17 PM | Message Detail
I got post 499 !!!!!!!!

*YAY*

^_^

I'll leave the 500th to Slowflake. Thx for continuing the legacy, buddy.

~Shake
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Head Stomp--J. Roundhouse--D.S. Short--S. Roundhouse--S.J. Jab--S.J. Short--S.J. Strong--Head Stomp--Head Stomp--Lightning Legs
From: Slowflake | Posted: 11/18/2003 4:19:59 PM | Message Detail
Well, I don't think getting the 500th post is that big.

But since you asked so nicely...
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TEJELPAMMED: Know your roots in the morning before work, with added vitamin fad. -Lettuce Kefka on TEJELPAMMED cereals
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