| Stats & Discussion -- Summer 2003 Contest -- Mark III |
| : | | | | | This Topic has been marked closed. No additional messages may be posted. | | | | Page 8 of 10 | | | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/8/2003 8:43:35 AM | Message Detail |
Honestly, I think only one newcomer deserves a 6-seed or higher. Take a guess...
---
If
Kefka were governor of California, he'd kill half the population to
solve the power problem, then 98% of what's left for the hell of it.
-GoldManiac | | From: Cthulhu | Posted: 9/9/2003 1:26:29 AM | Message Detail |
| Mr Resetti of course | | From: chaos knight | Posted: 9/9/2003 2:42:52 AM | Message Detail |
Zero or Shadow?
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Chaos Knight-Cerebral Insomniac of the CoS
| | From: Heroic Ramza | Posted: 9/9/2003 2:46:05 AM | Message Detail |
well... both zero and magus deserve around that I think.
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"A small stone may only make a small ripple at first but some day, it will be a wave."~Wiegraf | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/9/2003 5:07:32 AM | Message Detail |
I meant one who wasn't there in 2002 AND 2003.
Why, it's
.
.
.
.
.
.
FROG OF COURSE!
---
If
Kefka were governor of California, he'd kill half the population to
solve the power problem, then 98% of what's left for the hell of it.
-GoldManiac | | From: steve illumina | Posted: 9/9/2003 7:47:47 AM | Message Detail |
Indeed
it is so...Frog, who will be here next year and win at least 1
match...the lovable amphibian...Frog...he has my nomination already.
But then so does Sigma, Dr. Wily, Sweet Tooth, Rayne, and Vivi!
---
Trivia 9: Go Cheese Strikes Back!
NFL Week 2: Dolphins over NY Jets by 7 | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/9/2003 9:47:12 AM | Message Detail |
On
a side note, it's funny how Magus was the heavy CT favorite here last
year, then Magus gets in... and all of a sudden the people favor Frog,
who might get a spot next year. Is it some sort of evil plan to get the
entire CT cast in?
---
If Kefka were governor of California, he'd
kill half the population to solve the power problem, then 98% of what's
left for the hell of it. -GoldManiac | | From: Cthulhu | Posted: 9/9/2003 11:22:33 AM | Message Detail |
| Next
you guys should nominate Ayla, she's hot and she's a cavewoman. That
means she's never heard of birth control and riding bareback is
perfectly normal | | From: steve illumina | Posted: 9/9/2003 1:38:43 PM | Message Detail |
Crono
is a nobody in my book..a bland generic Square hero...all the
supporting cast is cooler, better designed, better theme music, etc.
Frog and Magus especially, but even Robo too beats that lame spiky
haired katana wielder so many peeps look up to as some sort of faded
icon searching for lost glory.
---
Trivia 9: Go Cheese Strikes Back!
NFL Week 2: Dolphins over NY Jets by 7 | | From: Who Cares? | Posted: 9/9/2003 4:09:02 PM | Message Detail |
Finally
bought myself enough time to post. Basically, this post is in response
to kawaiifan's great idea for the contest format. And I myself really
like the 5th Option (the one with the byes), & wanted to input on
how I'd modify the original idea (Cuz I think 3 or 4 byes is little too
extreme). Now while the traditional format was great for the first two
years, I doubt the same excitement can be generated under the same
format now that we know who's good & who isn't. So here's what I'd
do with the original concept.
*Characters seeded 1-4 get byes
until the 3rd round. -- These should be the proven characters. (The
Elite 9 & other second tier characters)
*Characters seeded 5-8
get a bye to the 2nd round -- The characters that fall just underneath.
If any new character to the contest appears to be very strong, this is
where they should fall.
So now, you have characters seeded 9-16 left. This would be the first round: 9 vs 16, 10 vs 15, 11 vs 14, 12 vs 13.
From this, we go into the second with: 5 vs 12/13, 6 vs 11/14, 7 vs 10/15, 8 vs 9/16
So
then once we get to the third round, we have 32 matches completed with
32 characters remaining. So now the third of this format eccentially
becomes the second round of the traditional format. What you accomplish
with this format is you give the lower seeded characters a better
chance at victory, creating excitement that wouldn't be there for fans
if they were up against a higher caliber character. Also, with
potentially better early round matches, you avoid wasting a day with
people having to sit thru a worthless match like Link vs AiAi.
And to put this idea in a better perspective, lets use this year's seeds as an example of what could have been:
NORTH
(9) Fox vs (16) AiAi
(10) Crash vs (15) Issac
(11) Jill vs (14) Ratchet (Interesting especially after the Squall/Luigi match)
(12) Ganondorf vs (13) Magus (the great match comes a bit sooner)
EAST
(9) Tails vs (16) CATS (Improved performace for both characters)
(10) Scorpion vs (15) Ken (Great matchup of two fighting characters)
(11) Aeris vs (14) Felix (Great Square vs Nintendo RPG match)
(12) Ness vs (13) Conker (Interesting)
SOUTH
(9) Shadow vs (16) Captian Olimar
(10) Max Payne vs (15) Raizel (Interesting)
(11) Bomberman vs (14) Ramza (Ditto)
(12) Kefka vs (13) Tom Nook
WEST
(9) Yuna vs (16) Raiden
(10) Zelda vs (15) Mr. Resetii
(11) Vyse vs (14) Kite (Great match between two obscure RPG characters)
(12) Ryo vs (13) Duke
So
looking at those matchups, I'd say there's a few more interesting early
round matches than they were in the previous format. Also, something
else that could be done is that the characters that aren't seeded 1-8
don't come into the contest with seed initally. What this does is allow
for more freedom in setting up the early matches. Then when we move to
the second round, give those characters seeds on their performance. The
best character getting a #9, the worst getting a #12 and so forth.
Anyway, that's how I'd improve of kawaiifan's original idea. Again
great post. | | From: red sox 777 | Posted: 9/10/2003 1:41:39 PM | Message Detail |
My Proposed 2004 Bracket:
North:
1. Cloud
2. Mario
3. Sonic
4. Ganondorf
East:
1. Mega Man
2. Crono
3. Aeris
4. Magus
South:
1. Sephiroth
2. Samus
3. Tidus
4. Bowser
West:
1. Link
2. Snake
3. Frog
4. Squall
---
Summer Contest 2003: 123 out of 192 points | | From: GunMage | Posted: 9/11/2003 6:20:31 PM | Message Detail |
This topic deserves a saving bump.
---
The fics are still coming. Hopefully, we'll finish before GCB III...
(Vs. Mode: http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.asp?board=8&topic=9727932) | | From: Haste2 | Posted: 9/11/2003 6:26:47 PM | Message Detail |
| [This message was deleted at the request of the original poster] | | From: Panthera | Posted: 9/11/2003 6:50:42 PM | Message Detail |
My top 3
NORTH
1.Cloud[he DID win]
2.Sephiroth[these two must duel early]
3.Frog[he's a threat, but to be fair he gets a division he probably can't stop]
EAST
1.MegaMan[him vs. an FF7 character in the semis? Golden]
2.Aeris[Handles the division readily, but becomes a warm-up for the man in Blue]
3.Sonic[Always around]
WEST
1.Link[I doubt he'll fall easily]
2.Samus[she'll die to Link, but its only fair since Cloud and Seph have to fight]
3.Magus[just like Frog, his high seed is countered by a strong division]
SOUTH
1.Crono[about time he gets a top seed]
2.Snake[Crono beat him before, its only fair]
3.Mario[all
right, being below Snake is an insult, but under my system Sephiroth is
#2, and you do not get to be a higher seed than the guy who murdered
you, ate your children and stole your wife]
---
Whats the difference between a cadillac and a pile of dead babies? I don't have a cadillac in my garage.-A substitute teacher
| | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/11/2003 6:52:16 PM | Message Detail |
Aeris over Sonic? Sonic BEAT Aeris! And that coming from one who says Mario should be below Seph because Seph destroyed Mario...
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Question: Would you rather be a boy or a girl?
Ertyu: Girl so i can stear in a Mirror and look at my big Bobs | | From: thundersheep | Posted: 9/11/2003 8:20:05 PM | Message Detail |
| I like red sox bracket but i think that Squall should be the 3rd seed he will get a helluva lot of nominations. | | From: Haste2 | Posted: 9/13/2003 10:54:10 AM | Message Detail |
Woah, can't let this topic die...
Here's a list of characters that have made the Sweet 16 two years in a row:
Link
Samus Aran
Cloud Strife
Aeris Gainsborough
Sonic the Hedgehog
Mario
Crono
Alucard
Sephiroth
Solid Snake
Mega Man
That's 11 characters. Who sticks out the most? Alucard. He's by far the weakest of the group.
Now let's check out all the characters that have been in the contest for 2 years but failed to win a match:
CATS (lost vs. Ryu and Cloud)
Miles "Tails" Prower (lost vs. Alucard and Auron)
Ken Masters (lost vs. Samus and Sonic)
Gordon Freeman (lost vs. Tina and Max)
Raziel (lost vs. Strider and Sephiroth)
That's
only 5. Looks like Tails and Ken have just had bad luck. They deserve
to return again next year, IMO. (Okay, maybe Ken could be replaced with
Chun-Li and Vega or someone) Forget Gordon Freeman and CATS...they're
totally worthless.
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." | | From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 9/13/2003 10:58:45 AM | Message Detail |
bump
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No, he couldn't fly. But he could fall with style. | | From: Samberdog | Posted: 9/13/2003 11:02:45 AM | Message Detail |
I think CATS should stay. He's the Dan of the SC!
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I met a possum! | | From: Panthera | Posted: 9/13/2003 11:31:12 AM | Message Detail |
Aeris over Sonic? Sonic BEAT Aeris! And that coming from one who says Mario should be below Seph because Seph destroyed Mario...
????? How the hell did I not notice that? I really need to start thinking more... Switch those two around.
---
Whats the difference between a cadillac and a pile of dead babies? I don't have a cadillac in my garage.-A substitute teacher
| | From: Phediuk | Posted: 9/13/2003 11:38:02 AM | Message Detail |
You want CATS to go, but you know that he'll be in anyway...
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"Thank you, Mario. But our princess is in another castle."
-Toad in Super Mario Bros. | | From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 9/13/2003 11:53:56 AM | Message Detail |
A Summer Contest without CATS just isn't right.
Look
at it this way: Would you rather CATS fans make hundreds of annoying
topics about how he was snubbed(or set up the bomb)in the next contest,
or hundreds of annoying, yet humorous, topics about him and his
opponents next year? I'd go for the latter.
---
"Do these huggies make my ass look big?" - Stewie Griffin
Nominate Morrigan Aensland in SC2K4! | | From: Cthulhu | Posted: 9/13/2003 11:56:40 AM | Message Detail |
| I
was thinking, what if we made each match a 3 way? 3 characters versus
each other, the top one gets to move on. We can start with 81 and
whittle them down easily in 4 rounds. This would reduce the power of
the Elite 9 and allow the lower characters to have a chance. The only
bad thing I see about this is that characters would be falling 2 a
match and the entire contest would be a lot shorter | | From: red sox 777 | Posted: 9/13/2003 1:35:39 PM | Message Detail |
I concur. A Summer Contest without CATS just wouldn't be a Summer Contest.
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Summer Contest 2003: 123 out of 192 points | | From: ChichiriMuyo | Posted: 9/13/2003 5:36:55 PM | Message Detail |
perhaps increas the number to 96 and make only the first rounds 3-ways.
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http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/MyAnime/index.php?categ=10&user=ChichiriMuyo | | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/15/2003 1:12:27 AM | Message Detail |
Who Cares? wrote:
Basically, this post is in response to kawaiifan's great idea for the contest format.
Thank you ^.^
*Characters
seeded 1-4 get byes until the 3rd round. -- These should be the proven
characters. (The Elite 9 & other second tier characters)
*Characters
seeded 5-8 get a bye to the 2nd round -- The characters that fall just
underneath. If any new character to the contest appears to be very
strong, this is where they should fall.
I like your idea, and it's a considerably simpler layout than mine. I do have two quibbles, though:
1) The Top Three (Cloud, Sephiroth, Link) are massively more powerful than anyone else, at least at this time.
A
match between any two of the Three would be close; a match between any
one of the Three and anyone else, would be at least a very solid win,
if not a blowout, in favour of the former. So, I would like to reduce
the number of matches in which the Three appear, and thus the number of
boring predictable matches in which they smash one opponent after
another after another. Giving them more byes into later rounds
accomplishes that. Every match in which we don't see one of the Three,
frees up a day for one more match featuring two other characters. This
match might be more interesting as a result, or it might not be; but
it's virtually certain not to be less interesting.
Unfortunately,
due to the symmetry of the bracket, either the fourth 1 seed (Mega Man,
or Mario, or Samus, or ...), would have to be carried along for the
multi-bye ride too despite not really deserving it, or the symmetry
would have to be broken.
An extreme bye-related possibility that
just occurred to me right now, which would neatly solve the problem
posed by the overwhelming strength of the Three, and without requiring
carrying along a fourth:
Expand the tournament by three days. Create
a bracket (of whatever shape) with 64 entrants, but excluding the
Three. After 63 days, a champion of the 64-character bracket will be
declared. That champion then advances into a three-match, two-round
'post-season', and faces Cloud there. Link faces Sephiroth. Finally,
the winners of (Cloud vs. bracket champion) and (Sephiroth vs. Link)
meet each other, in a final grand championship match.
Looking at this from another perspective, it could be seen as being equivalent to giving six byes to each of the Three. ^.^
2)
I'm afraid I still would not, in general, like to see newcomers
receiving byes. Matches with newcomers are less predictable than those
with veterans, and more fun, probably as a result. Besides, a new
character may prove to be much weaker than previously thought (Luigi,
Vercetti, Master Chief ... all of whom were given 3 seeds), and clearly
not deserve to have received a bye, at least in hindsight.
On
the other hand, a newcomer getting a bye would be OK with me, if the
bracket were to place them so that they face (in their first match due
to the bye) the winner of a first-round match between two other
newcomers. This makes for another guaranteed new vs. new match, which
is good.
Except in this particular case, though (new vs. new in
first round, winner advancing to meet another new one in the second
round who had received a bye), I would prefer to see all of the byes go
to veterans. The more times the newcomers appear, and the fewer times
the veterans reappear, the greater the likelihood of unpredictable
matches. ^.^
.
I really like your idea of the preliminary
'field' being unseeded, and characters being matched up by hand instead
to create interesting pairings. Seeding is important for the top few,
or even perhaps for the stronger half of the field, but it quickly
loses its relevance below that point.
The greater simplicity of your proposal, compared to mine, is also quite appealing to me.
Finally, the sample matchups that you created (or similar equivalents) would be wonderful to see next year.
^.^
---
Supporting Nakoruru, and her little sister Rimururu too!
| | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/15/2003 1:13:49 AM | Message Detail |
Hi everyone ^.^
I'll save this topic from the purge, and add two responses as well.
Cthulhu wrote:
I
wouldnt standardize a system where only repeat competitors would get a
seed from #1-6, but thats more of a personal preference than anything
because I dislike rigidity [....] If this were in effect, no new
characters would face each other in the first round.
I guess
I was thinking more of my byes proposal, in which the 1 through 6 seeds
would receive byes, and the 7 through 16 would participate in the first
round, when I was composing my thoughts on this matter. By excluding
the new characters from the top 24, and thus concentrating them within
the ranks of the lower 40, they would be considerably more likely to meet one another in the first round than would have been the case otherwise.
Under
the current/standard system, however, I see your point ... the only
possible first-round matches between two newcomers would then be the 7
vs. 10 (winner guaranteed to fall to the 2 in the second round) and the
8 vs. 9 (winner guaranteed to fall to the 1 in the second round).
[...]
I've still got my own theory of what would work best :D but my system
would call for a total revamping of the whole bracket system. It might,
however, if I'm lucky, severely lessen the powers of the Elite 9 to a
point where someone else might be able to win, or at least someone
other than Link, Cloud, and Sephiroth. I'll post that later if I can
write up a workable version of it
I'm looking forward to reading about it. ^.^
.
(Oops. ^.^;;;; I guess I posted my second message first, and my first one second. Oh well....)
---
Supporting Nakoruru, and her little sister Rimururu too!
| | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/16/2003 12:46:17 PM | Message Detail |
If it was not for Kawaiifan, this topic would be GONE. Thank you Kawaiifan!
Random
thought of the day: remember when Solar ran a poll on his site asking
who will face Link in the finals, and the "you mean Cloud" sort of
answer looked like it was there as a joke? Tells how much time it took
us to react to the eventuality of a Cloud win... way after the
"others", the same who picked Squall over Luigi.
My opinion on
the format ideas presented: I don't like the idea of byes. At all. In
an ideally seeded bracket, Cloud would ALREADY face a strong opponent
in the semis, and Link Sephiroth. It's just that instead of having
Link, Cloud and Sephiroth kill everyone in sight, it would be Mario,
Crono, Megaman and Samus. And no matter what, even with six byes for
Link, Cloud and Sephiroth, these four would STILL be considered
second-tiers to these three. Besides, the concept of byes involves the
top players being in less matches, thus INCREASING their mathematical
chances of winning. The only solution would be not bringing them back,
but then the legitimacy of the title is ZERO... "Cloud could've beaten
him!", and that kind of stuff. | | From: red sox 777 | Posted: 9/16/2003 1:36:38 PM | Message Detail |
My opinion on the matter:
We
don't need byes for the "Elite 3," especially not a bye straight to the
final four. A one or 2 round bye might be good, though. I think we
shouldn't really worry about the "Elite 3" demolishing everone in their
path. After all, didn't Link kill everyone last year and then lose to
Cloud this year? Who's to say the popularities won't change again? We
should, however, make sure that the "Elite 3," especially Cloud, get
plenty of tough competition. A match I'd like to see is Cloud VS.
Mario. While Cloud almost certainly would have beat Mario this year,
the fact remains that Cloud has never beaten Mario in direct battle,
while Mario has beaten Cloud once.
---
Summer Contest 2003: 123 out of 192 points | | From: FastFalcon05 | Posted: 9/16/2003 1:45:44 PM | Message Detail |
Marina
Lightyears: Create a topic virtually anywhere on GameFAQS asking what
the most underrated game ever is and you will be barraged with people
saying Mischeif Makers (N64). As the star of the game, Ms. Lightyears
would the most likely nominee from it. Now, of course she has a small
cult following and a likely 16 Seed.
Yesmar said this and no one
took notice. Anyone else ever seen her? Mischief makers is a
surprisingly good game made by enix btw. She would definitly be an
interesting character.
---
Those who know nothing, can understand nothing. -Ansem | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/16/2003 2:20:43 PM | Message Detail |
Link, Cloud and Sephiroth ALREADY had virtual byes to round 3 AT LEAST. Both times.
Link 2002: Little Mac, Strider
Cloud 2002: Fox, Pikachu
Sephiroth 2002: Gabe Logan, Crash
Link 2003: AiAi, Fox
Cloud 2003: CATS, Auron
Sephiroth 2003: Raziel, Max Payne
To
the exception of Auron, all these are fodder. Giving the big three byes
would only make these fodder characters lose to Crono instead of Link.
---
Question: Would you rather be a boy or a girl?
Ertyu: Girl so i can stear in a Mirror and look at my big Bobs | | From: steve illumina | Posted: 9/16/2003 6:52:45 PM | Message Detail |
CATS
belongs in every summer contest purely for humorous purposes. Every
tourney needs something to laugh at, a pure joke with no chance of ever
winning even against another 16 seed. Till someone better comes along,
he fits the bill nicely.
---
Trivia 9: Go Cheese Strikes Back! We be in the Final Four!
NFL Week 3: Dolphins (1-1) over Buffalo (2-0) by 1 | | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/17/2003 5:41:22 PM | Message Detail |
Emergency save. ^^;;;;
I've been having massive computer- and ISP-related problems today, so I'll save this while I can.
Could
someone please archive this topic ASAP, just to make absolutely sure
that it doesn't get lost in the void if it isn't tended to for a couple
of days? Thank you ^.^
| | From: Haste2 | Posted: 9/18/2003 7:06:42 PM | Message Detail |
Uh,
these may have a lack of intelligence, but here are some awards. :[ A
lot of them apply more to the boards. Some just use common sense to my
best abiltty, while some use actual statistics.
Most hyped up new character: Tommy Vercetti
honorable mentions: Magus and, hm, Yoshi?
Biggest upsets: Link vs. Cloud Strife
honorable mention: Squall Leonhart vs. Luigi, Wario vs. Shadow the Hedgehog
Toughest 4-pack: Magus, Ganondorf, Sam Fisher, Tidus
honorable mention: Sonic the Hedgehog, Zero, Ken, Scorpion
Toughest division: East
honorable mention: North
Weakest division: West
honorable mention: South
Most nail-biting match: Crono vs. Mario
honorable mention: Donkey Kong vs. Tommy Vercetti
Biggest blowout: Link vs. AiAi
honorable mentions: Mega Man vs. Mr. Resetti, Mario vs. Captain Olimar
Most surprising margins of victory: Kefka vs. Crono
honorable mentions: Mario vs. Shadow the Hegdgehog, Cloud Strife vs. Sonic the Hedgehog
Top 5 hardest matches to predict:
Cloud Strife vs. Sephiroth
Link vs. Cloud Strife
Solid Snake vs. Mega Man
Sephiroth vs. Mega Man
Magus vs. Ganondorf
Most surprising newcomer: Shadow the Hedgehog
honorable mentions: Tommy Vercetti, Zero
Battle of the weaklings award: Gordon Freeman vs. Max Payne
honorable mention: Pikachu vs. Fox McCloud
Most popular poll: Link vs. Cloud Strife
honorable mentions: Mario vs. Crono, Cloud Strife vs. Sephiroth
Comment:
I think the numbers we've been proven enough times that Squaresoft
attracts more votes than Nintendo does. Could this mean Squaresoft has
a sort of "unfair" advantage in these contests?
Least popular poll: Gordon Freeman vs. Max Payne
honorable mentions: Sam Fisher vs. Magus, Yoshi vs. Conker
---
"Ah, a party! We haven't had one of those. It could be fun! So...what is a party?"
"Well, you drink punch and eat CAKE! ...I think." | | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/20/2003 2:08:07 AM | Message Detail |
Good work Haste2 ^.^ on that list of awards.
FastFalcon05, I wrote a tiny response to Yesmar's post, buried within my message of 9/6/2003 6:29:00 AM:
Yesmar:
Marina-chan looks so cute! ^.^
Such big kawaii eyes. I like ^.^
I just wish I had an N64 so I could try that game....
I'm afraid she's just too obscure to enter the contest, though. ^.^;;
She might turn out like a Ryo Hazuki or a Vyse, but with fewer votes. ;.;
Slowflake wrote:
If it was not for Kawaiifan, this topic would be GONE. Thank you Kawaiifan!
Glad to be of help ^.^
Sorry to keep going on about my byes proposal, but....
In the first round, one of these six possibilities will occur:
1) Link annihilates fodder such as AiAi, 91-9.
2) Link destroys a mid-carder such as Scorpion, 76-24.
3) Link beats a strong character such as Samus, 62-38.
4) Link skips at least the first round, having been given at least one bye.
5) Link is excluded from the tournament.
6) Link faces Cloud or Sephiroth in the first round.
Both
(1) and (2) are boring and utterly useless matches, which I would like
to prevent taking place if at all possible, since they're at best
merely a waste of a day.
An example of (2) is if the current format
is retained, but a serious effort is made to exclude all fodder from
the field. Even in this case, a 16 seed will surely be weaker than
Scorpion.
(3) is a little more exciting ... but it knocks out Samus
in the first round. (5) is probably the worst of the first five listed,
since it would simply produce cries of
"Cloud could've beaten him!", and that kind of stuff
exactly as you said. And (6) needs no comment.
I
just feel that (4) is the least of the six evils here. It does have its
drawbacks, but in my opinion the drawbacks of the other five listed are
worse.
It's just that instead of having Link, Cloud and Sephiroth kill everyone in sight, it would be Mario, Crono, Megaman and Samus.
Yes,
at least looking at the field at this time, and if we assume the
standard bracket but with the Three saved for later (in other words,
one possible form of my second proposal). Still, since the Mario tier
is considerably weaker than the Link one, some of the blowouts will be
reduced to merely clear wins, and some of the clear wins could become
close. (e.g. Mario/Shadow, Sonic/Zero)
Close battles = good, as long
as they're not superheated affairs like Mario/Crono ... and, in the
opinion of some, even then. ^.^
Besides, my original byes
proposal gives double byes to the 2 seeds like Mario, Crono, and Samus,
and to the 3 seeds like Sonic, Magus, and Ganondorf. They won't be killing anyone in the first or second rounds, guaranteed, simply because they will have received byes to the third. ^.^
The
strongest veterans to reappear in the first round might be the likes of
a Vercetti or a Donkey Kong. The strongest ones to appear in the second
would be Shadow and Zero and Aeris.
And no matter what, even
with six byes for Link, Cloud and Sephiroth, these four would STILL be
considered second-tiers to these three.
Unless the survivor
of the 64-character bracket puts up a good fight against Cloud, that
is. If that survivor gets handed a 60-40 or worse defeat by Cloud
again, as expected, that would merely confirm that they should
continue to be considered second-tiers to the Three. On the other hand,
if the match is close (and especially if the challenger wins), that
should certainly induce a second revamping of the bracket shape for
2005. But for 2004, I feel that my proposals are appropriate, since all
that we have to go on at this time are the 2002 and 2003 results.
Besides, the concept of byes involves the top players being in less matches,
True. That's the point. ^.^
thus INCREASING their mathematical chances of winning.
No
... although not decreasing it. I feel that their chances of winning
are essentially equal in both cases, being neither an increase nor a
decrease.
---
Supporting Nakoruru, and her little sister Rimururu too!
| | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/20/2003 2:08:37 AM | Message Detail |
red sox 777 wrote:
I think we shouldn't really worry about the "Elite 3" demolishing everyone in their path.
I disagree. ^.^;;;
If
the current bracket shape and seeding system is retained for next year,
this is exactly what will happen, for at very least the first two
rounds, and likely for the third and fourth rounds as well. I would
much rather see some closer, more interesting matches on those days
instead.
If, on the other hand, what you mean is that they will
indeed demolish everyone but that we shouldn't care (worry) about that,
then I'm afraid all I can say is that I completely disagree with the
'shouldn't care' part. ^.^;;;
After all, didn't Link kill everyone last year and then lose to Cloud this year?
True ... to Cloud. He didn't come anywhere close to losing to Magus or Samus, let alone to the first two.
Who's to say the popularities won't change again?
This
certainly could happen, I agree. However, all that we have to go on at
this time are the 2002 and 2003 results. If the 2004 results should
come out differently, and perhaps show something else along the lines
of the KH effect that ruled the contest this year, the bracket
certainly can and should again be re-shaped accordingly for 2005.
We
should, however, make sure that the "Elite 3," especially Cloud, get
plenty of tough competition. A match I'd like to see is Cloud VS.
Mario. While Cloud almost certainly would have beat Mario this year,
the fact remains that Cloud has never beaten Mario in direct battle,
while Mario has beaten Cloud once.
That would indeed be an
interesting match to see ... and one which my original byes proposal
would certainly allow to take place, only without requiring three
weaker characters to get themselves humiliated by Cloud first, and two
others to fall to Mario.
A one or 2 round bye might be good, though.
Thank you ^.^
These are the rounds where byes could make the greatest improvements.
---
Supporting Nakoruru, and her little sister Rimururu too!
| | From: kawaiifan | Posted: 9/20/2003 2:14:06 AM | Message Detail |
Slowflake wrote:
Link, Cloud and Sephiroth ALREADY had virtual byes to round 3 AT LEAST. Both times.
Link 2002: Little Mac, Strider
Cloud 2002: Fox, Pikachu
Sephiroth 2002: Gabe Logan, Crash
Link 2003: AiAi, Fox
Cloud 2003: CATS, Auron
Sephiroth 2003: Raziel, Max Payne
To the exception of Auron, all these are fodder.
Exactly. However, instead of refuting my point, this supports it. ^.^
'Virtual'
byes are days wasted on boring matches. I say let's toss the boring
matches and prevent the wasted days, by getting rid of these virtual
byes and giving them true byes instead.
Giving the big three byes would only make these fodder characters lose to Crono instead of Link.
Well,
we've got AiAi, Fox, Nook, and Kefka to deal with. If we give Link
byes, and promote Crono into his place as you implied, Crono faces AiAi
in the first round and Fox in the second. Boring blowouts once again,
admittedly. However, who would then face Nook in the first round and
Kefka in the second? Crono can't get both AiAi in the first and Nook in the first, and he can't get both Fox in the second and Kefka in the second.
(Unless we were to use the 3-way suggestion mentioned by Cthulhu, of course. ^.^ )
Possibly an erstwhile 3 seed like Sonic or Magus gets promoted into Crono's 2 spot? And then promoted into their
3 spots would be erstwhile 4 seeds like Zero and Aeris, and so on down
the line in a ripple effect. The win margin in each match would fall
slightly, making every match a little bit more exciting. No drastic
improvements, true; but even a small improvement is still an
improvement.
(Sample 3 seeds and 4 seeds are drawn from my 2004
recommendations (in turn based on creativename's work), and not from
the actual seedings given in 2003.)
Besides, my original proposal gives Crono and company true byes to the third round, preventing any such worries. ^.^
.
Please, everyone.
Look at the first-round matches that we got in 2003....
Obvious
boring blowouts, that anyone except a diehard fan of one of the
underdogs could have seen a kilometre away: Link/AiAi, Luigi/Ratchet,
Samus/Isaac, Cloud/CATS, Sonic/Ken (not as big a blowout as the others,
but Sonic still more than doubled up Ken), Mario/Olimar, Crono/Nook,
Sephiroth/Raziel, Solid Snake/Raiden, Vercetti/Kite (turned out
somewhat closer than expected, but still no contest), and Mega
Man/Resetti. Eleven days wasted -- more than one-third of the round --
and eleven characters simply sacrificed, having had no chance
whatsoever to win.
Close matches: Ganondorf/Tidus, Master Chief/Felix, Kefka/Pacman, Max/Gordon, Knuckles/Yuna. Five out of thirty-two.
Then, please look at the possible first-round matches that Who Cares? posted....
Obvious boring blowouts: Fox/AiAi, Aeris/Felix, Shadow/Olimar, Zelda/Resetti. Four out of sixteen.
Likely
close matches: Crash/Isaac, Ganondorf/Magus (I feel that this match
might turn out to be close), Scorpion/Ken, Ness/Conker, Max
Payne/Raziel, Kefka with one of his horrendous pictures / Tom Nook
(give Kefka a sprite and this becomes a blowout), Vyse/Kite, Ryo
Hazuki/Duke. Eight out of sixteen.
When we consider that Aeris
clearly deserves promotion (she's a rightful 4 seed), and that AiAi,
Olimar, and Resetti should be dumped next year in favour of the likes
of Frog or Protoman or Sub-Zero or Delita or Chun-Li or Dr. Wily or
Kain or Mewtwo or Marth or so on, the obvious boring blowouts vanish
completely. Some might still occur, of course; but they would be
nowhere near as predictable as any of the eleven this year were.
And it's not just a matter of improving the average strength of the field, either. In the standard bracket, the Three would still
slaughter any of the nine characters whom I named, by a score of
perhaps 73-27 ... while in a byes bracket, the newcomers' first-round
matches would stir great interest instead.
---
Supporting Nakoruru, and her little sister Rimururu too!
| | From: Shake | Posted: 9/20/2003 4:00:19 AM | Message Detail |
I like kawaiifan's ideas.
A
match Aiai and Link is boring and quite pointless, but a match between
Aiai and Mr-Resetti could be a real match, although these two have no
chance to get far in the tournament.
As for the enigma CATS, a
match between him and someone like Resetti could mean he will actually
win a battle, and that would mean delightfull choas and jubilation
among his frantic fans.
The top three is established, and so are
the elite 9. We have seen how the KH effect has changed things from
last year to this year, but I think we can be fairly certin that anyone
outside of the elite 9 has absolutely no chance to win.
So what
are the ones outside of the elite 9 here for? To measure against each
other, to see who is the better character, although they have no chance
to get any further then an occasional sweet 16 entry.
I think Kawaiifan's system of bye's alows for more fun matches then we have now, and eliminate a lot of boring ones.
The
only catch is, for this system to work the seeding has to be accurate.
And that's something I'm sceptical about. It seems CjayC has some kind
of malfunction everytime he has to place seedings. I would say he
forgets about entry votes and just seeds them himself, with common
sense.
I disagree with the idea that kawaiifan's system would
give the top 3 a bigger chance of winning because they have to play
fewer matches. As a lot have said already, those matches ARE virtual
bye's, no chance of actual defeat. So why bother?
It doensn't
decrease their chances either, they would just have to face the best
among losers (So to speak) instead of facing multiple losers.
And
character's like Mr Resetti and Tom Nook have tried, and failed. They
should be replaced with new character's next year, from games that have
no entry's yet.
By my own logic Frog would have to replace
Magus as the additional CT character to Crono. I would hate that but
its only fair. Magus has tried and failed, although he could get in the
quarter finals if the seeding is fortunate, and I believe he could give
Samus and Sonic a run for their money. But so could Frog, probably.
I
think any second character from a game or serie's should be able to
rival the first in support(In votes, not on the board), or be distinct
enough from the main character to warrant a nomination. Magus has
tried, and while he may be closer to Crono in votes then many think,
its time to replace him with another from the series, Frog being the
logical next to try.
I am a Squarehead, but Aeris is a totally
obsolete character, 3 from a single game is too much. Cloud and
Sepiroth are established and with the last final a repeat anywhere in
the bracket would be interesting, even if its just to see which factor
wins, anti-votes against a reigning champ or bracket-votes.
Aeris
doesn't come close to these two in popularity, and should be replaced
with a character like Luca Blight, although he's from a game I've never
played he seems to have decent support on the board.
Street
Fighter should have Ryu as their representative, Ken is too similar and
sufficiently weaker to be either left out or replaced with another
fighter character, Tekken or Soul Caliber's lack of any character in
the contest weighs heavier then the need for Street Fighter to have a
second character in. Personal opinion is Cervantes, but any will do.
Gordon
Freeman should be kicked out and never allowed to return, maybe save a
massive char boost from Halflife II. He should be replaced with another
shooter char, or if there are no good choices you could bring in a
Starcraft character.
Tails and Knuckles should be out, although
I believe Shadow has a fanbase of his own and the massive Sonic series
warrants a second. Also because I don't know if Sonic is stronger then
Shadow, crazy as it sounds. Head to Head Sonic should win, but Shadow
has the pics to own the casual votes.
---
OH MAH GAWD,WHAT
THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR!Mario's up!Dammit,not like
this!Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Shake | Posted: 9/20/2003 4:00:29 AM | Message Detail |
The
jist of this is that if a character has no chance to survive two
rounds, or is just an unwarranted second char they should be replaced
with represenatives from other games, just to make it interesting.
There
are a lot of character's that deserve to be in, namely Vivi, Frog, Luca
Blight, Starcraft char (no idea), ID from Xenogears etc etc.
The
only one who should be in every single year contrary to all things
stated above, is CATS. He's like the running gag of this contest, and
who could imagine a SC2K4 without accusations of Cloud eating baby's?
Just my 2 cents, Kawaiifan, you do the seedng next year. Would make things interesting.
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR!Mario's
up!Dammit,not like this!Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Shake | Posted: 9/20/2003 4:08:07 AM | Message Detail |
I
also think Luigi, Donkey Kong and Yoshi can be replaced. There are a
lot of more deserving character's, and Yoshi and Donkey Kong have shown
to be weak character's in this contest, while Luigi is too much of a
clone without putting up sufficient numbers to warrant him being in.
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR!Mario's
up!Dammit,not like this!Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Shake | Posted: 9/21/2003 3:09:07 AM | Message Detail |
Bumping, is this dying? Would be a shame.
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR!Mario's
up!Dammit,not like this!Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Slowflake | Posted: 9/21/2003 5:09:38 AM | Message Detail |
Well
duh, let's keep bumping it until it reaches 500! Hope Solarshadow or
someone else saved it, or else we might be condemned to a Ncr-esque
save.
---
Question: Would you rather be a boy or a girl?
Ertyu: Girl so i can stear in a Mirror and look at my big Bobs | | From: torey luvullo | Posted: 9/21/2003 5:36:07 AM | Message Detail |
ah, good times.
in terms of awards, this topic [and its predecessors] wins the absolute most important award [to me] - the Most Valuable Thread award. So much credit goes to so many people who made it consistently good reading throughout the tourney. | | From: Enoch Camas | Posted: 9/21/2003 10:39:55 AM | Message Detail |
I'd
say Yoshi, Donkey Kong, and Luigi have all established a place for
themselves in the contest. They did make it to the second round this
year(DK made the Sweet 16 last year), and none of them went out in a
blowout.
Wario... there's no real reason for him to be here. He
can beat some people, but he really doesn't seem to be that popular.
Peach would do better, IMO.
Knuckles should stay, and be in a
division that doesn't have Snake in it. Tails... he's the only Sonic
character I really like, but like Ken, he was put in a bad position
both years. He can make it to the second round, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he was dropped.
---
"Do these huggies make my ass look big?" - Stewie Griffin
Nominate Sub-Zero in SC2K4! | | From: Yesmar | Posted: 9/21/2003 11:38:26 AM | Message Detail |
I was rereading the first stats topic and some of the stuff is pretty funny. Everybody was saying:
"This only proves that Link will win."
"A win for Yoshi."
But I have to congratulate cyko for being the first person to comment on Kingdom Hearts and the contest. He posted the following message all the way back on July 4th:
Squall
seems to have picked up a little support since his appearance in
kingdom hearts (or at least the anti-squall hatred is down a little),
putting him on about the same level as Tidus (as a whiny final fantasy
hero).
Of course little did we know how much one little appearance could do.
---
Heh Heh... The wind... It is blowing...
--Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker | | From: franmars | Posted: 9/22/2003 9:06:01 AM | Message Detail |
| This topic should be saved so.... BUMP | | From: torey luvullo | Posted: 9/23/2003 3:57:23 AM | Message Detail |
| everybody to the limit... | | From: Shake | Posted: 9/24/2003 4:01:47 PM | Message Detail |
Saving from the purge.
And a big thanks to Snowflake for voting for me in the sig contest, when somebody else probably wouldn't have. ^_^
I am quite sure I will lose anyway, I didn't expect to win the first round !
^_~
---
OH
MAH GAWD,WHAT THE HELL IS CJAYC DOING WITH THAT DAMN CHAIR!Mario's
up!Dammit,not like this!Mario pins Crono! Its a damn screwjob, by gawd! | | From: Heroic Knuckles | Posted: 9/24/2003 4:17:47 PM | Message Detail |
bumper
I'm suprised this topic has survived for so long after the contest.
---
"You want some? Well come and get it!" ~Viewtiful Joe | | From: EvilNcr | Posted: 9/24/2003 4:18:41 PM | Message Detail |
bah. survived much longer last year.
---
The Reaper is always a step behind you ncr... | | Jump to Page: | | | | | | | 8 | | |
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